As much as I appreciate the paragon path, I appreciate these scenes done renegade. It almost feels like a role reversal. Normally heroic blue and evil red, but here it's backwards. The "savior of humanity" is the villain while the hero is a hardass renegade
So, did anyone notice that when he died, his eyes turned back into normal human eyes? Like for the first time in so long, The Illusive Man AKA Jack Harper... was finally free.
ExtremePlayGames his indoctrination is far more advanced in ME3 than in ME2. He also mentions at one point that he got 'improved' with Reapers' tech. And it is because of indoctrination. Look at the ending of ME2 where Harbinger releases control over that one Collector - his eyes turn back to normal.
Martin Sheen is so fucking boss. Most big name actors hired to do voice work in video games just sort of half-ass it, but Sheen freaking embodies the Illusive Man. An incredible actor for an incredible character.
That was only part of his reason for reviving Shepard. In ME2 TIM isn't indoctrinated, and it's likely that he saw Shepard as part of a longer term plan for defeating the reapers.
@Franky Torres he’s not evil but the writers randomly decided to make him that in the third game for all the new dumb cod players who can’t possibly understand complex writing
It just occurred to me that the crucible is needed to control the reapers anyway; and that there's barely any reason for Shepard or Cerberus to fight each other.
I think he was made the antagonist was for two things a) for Shepard to have someone to oppose (since they got rid of Harbinger for some reason) and b) so they could deal with Cerberus without getting into shades of gray. Imagine, if you actually had to work with a guy that may not be a good guy! Ironically enough, he's not necessarily evil either. The horror of it all kicks in when you realize he's been indoctrinated from the very beginning.
His one right decision tho. He knew in himself what was happening. Kinda like feeling the high of winning at gambling and knowing the risk you might get addicted. He revived shephard knowing that. Knownig he had his own limitations and he needed someone else to fight for humanity. If you picked the last dialogue choice to be paragon he says "i tried" before shooting himself!
He always tried to control the reapers. In Mass Effect 2 he was obsessed in trying to understand them and always wanted to preserve every piece of reaper tech he found to reverse-engineer it to find a way to control them. Not once in ME2 he says to Shepard he wants to destroy the reapers, he speaks about protecting humanity and preserve it and he truly believes in it but he was being indoctrinated without noticing with this line of thought.
He was right about controling the reapers. He was wrong about using them to make humans the appex of evolution. And he would probably use the reapers to destroy all the other races.
@@shamelessmoose hell, he couldnt have even deployed it in the first place. Which fleet would have helped him? Where would the scientists and workers to build this come from? He was already indoctrinated at this point - his plan to actually fight the reapers wasnt thought out at all. He was focussed on hindering shepard.
Characters who leaned towards the Illusive Man's philosophy like Garrus once believed that the goal should justify the means. Garrus learned the hard way that you should evaluate your methods. See, even though Sidonis unwillingly killed Garrus's squad, it was Garrus's fault for not seeing that event coming, he was so focused on driving his team to clean out Omega, he was blinded by his vanity, and Illusive Man almost made the same mistake as Garrus.
Actually, the renegade Shep is the good way to go. In the second game, you can give the collector data to the Illusive Man because controlling them is the best way to go (gather their knowledge, new technology, etc.). But, in the third game Illusive Man becomes indoctrinated, so you need to destroy the Reapers otherwise you'll get indoctrinated too.
Bradley Moulston It is but only because it's more destructive. Renegade is not always evil just the more ruthless route which is sometimes the better toute
Because he is misguided by his huberis. Its not that he's "evil", its because he's doing more harm to humanity than good, and he won't realize that until its too late. That's why you can't join him, because he has become what Uncharted 3 Drake's Deception calls a "Dreamer of the day", a person who won't slow down or stop for any reason until he completes his goal, even if it means hurting himself or the people he cares about.
Bioware botched TIM because they wanted a villian Shepard could wail on freely because the Reapers themselves cant be killed willy nilly like Cerberus troops can, Because Indoctrination sets in minorly almost instantly, TIM has been sitting in near isolation for years, How could he be indoctrinated when 6 months earlier he was gunning for the Reapers and the Collectors?
He was probably indoctrinated by artifacts recovered from the Collector base. He has his people salvage it regardless of whether or not Shepard destroys it, if you remember.
Yes, Indoctrination only sets in if your bumfuck close to it, Like within a couple of meters, Unless the Reaper is alive, And Indoctrination sets in over years, Like the asari from Sarens base, Not over 6 months, Especially when he was fighting them.
CyberVirus549 I don't think they ever clearly state just how close you need to be to the object for it to have an effect you. But even if you forget about the proto-reaper, he has had contact with reaper tech before in Mass Effect: Evolution (resulting in the freaky eyes). The groundwork for his indoctrination was laid years before ME1.
He should have been on Shepard's side. BioWare messed up with the writing in my opinion. The batarians would have been a better secondary antagonist - this was strongly foreshadowed in Bring Down the Sky but remained an unfired Chekhov's gun.
This writing compared to Andromeda... It's not even close the writing of the original trilogy blows this new game out of the water. The stakes here are so high and everything is intense af while the new game just feels like a joke..
Just to make it clear, I'm not saying his beliefs and methods are wrong, its just that sometimes the means have to be evaluated, not just the end. If you always let the end justify the means, you might end up regretting what you've done in the end. Better safe than sorry.
Because he did more to fight the reapers than any other political leader in the galaxy. The only reason he was a villain in ME3 was because he was indoctrinated. Otherwise I would have joined him immediately. I'd rather join TIM than the incompetent racist council or the hypocritical, backstabbing Alliance.
In all honesty,this is one of the few examples where renegade options are more practical. Most of the time renegade options are just arrogance-driven, but this one is rather effective. As Paragon,Shepard is like "don't you see?You are indoctrinated!" but there's little chance that you can convince someone that he's indoctrinated. However, as Renegade ,Shepard is like "If you want to control them,why don't you try?" knowing that the Catalyst won't let TIM touch the crucible.
People like the Illusive Man could to be the future of the humanity in real life, people intelligent and powerful... With the greatest ideas and the best for all of us... The illusive man was right, "There are sacrifices" those that is necessary experiment with anything, just for find a solution for anything.
Your renegade Shepard is actually very attractive. More so than the Paragon version of the same video. Is this modded or is that Shepard possible on consoles? When she doesn't have scars that is. >.>
That's why I was so disappointed when I realized the Illusive Man was the sole leader. It would've made more sense to have the power divided between at least three people, each in charge of a different division. Political, Military, Research. Hence, "Cerberus." But nooooo...Cerberus just became the human version of Collectors.
It would've made for such a better plot if Illusive Man had taken control of the reapers using the prothean thing and he had taken them to kill all non human races. What a fucking disappointment to underuse such an excellent villain.
Something's been bothering me. How do you get the Paragon or Renegade option during the final confrontation with The Illusive Man? I know there's something you need to have done during the course of the game, but what is it?
NO!... i know how Tim think's he had it right he only wanted to protect humanity. to save it there are sacrafices that must be made for the greater good. for humanity. and nothing you could say will convince me otherwise!.. hahaha i know man but after mass effect 2 i decided to join and help tim with his goal. i was disappointed that we couldn't. because i'am to a dreamer of the day.
It's still kinda grey, but he's deluded so it turned obviously black pretty quick, lol. It would've been grey if he actually manage to dominate an ENTIRE reaper, instead of all the husks. Some of the grey morality choices are a little obvious... because some of the greys are obviously darker, no? In ME2, destroying the collector base seemed like a waste, since all those ppl wouldve died for nothing. Like if you destroyed the Maelon's data, you wouldve wasted all the females' lives.
if you are talking about the final encounter you either get the paragon persuade option, or you have to hit the renegade interrupt, otherwise you get a non-standard game over where the illusive man kills you
He's implanted himself with reaper tech, presumably to get some of their control ability. I believe you get a video recording of the conversation prior to the operation if you check the archives in the base, where TIM's doctor raises some doubts about the risks of indoctrination.
I hate the fact that he still gets the last word in- when he talks about "how beautiful" the earth is- even in the Renegade version. It makes sense with the paragon path, where he realizes what he's allowed himself to become. But in the renegade path, he just angrily rants and raves about how HE'S humanity's savior, and constantly tries to justify his actions. He never realizes that he's become one of the monsters he wants to control. He's got nothing left, and he's desperate to have Shepard's approval- to justify to himself what he's done. And as she keeps calling him out on what he's done, his focus is still totally on himself. The only thing that finally ends his ego-maniacal tirade is a bullet. Honestly, Renegade Shepard should have shot him again, to silence him.
Yes, you get to look like this if you leave the scars in ME2 and go Renegade. It's worth it though, there are some hilarious comments about them in Citadel DLC, in casino entrance sequence: czcams.com/video/9-eRPpReOwg/video.html
Agreed, they really fucked up a fascinating character and turned him into some dumb generic movie villain. They may as well have given him a moustache to twirl.
It would have been cool if there was a renegade ending when Shepard aquires the reaper's power and becomes the all-powerful ruler of the galaxy. Why didn't Bioware think of that?
Nii Commey I played some of it, then stopped when I discovered how badly written the ending was. *spoilers* All three endings end with Shepard getting blown up along with the mass relays, regaldless of your ranking. Even in the control ending, he controls the reapers while dead. Which doesn't make sense to me. How can he/she control the reapers while dead?
+Searches for Quality Shepard can survive if you get a high enough ranking and choose the destroy option. There is a scene just before the credits that shows Shepard breathing beneath a pile of rubble, showing that he/she survived. If you choose the control option while having a mostly renegade reputation, then Shepard's mind uses the power of the Reapers to control the galaxy.
As much as I appreciate the paragon path, I appreciate these scenes done renegade. It almost feels like a role reversal. Normally heroic blue and evil red, but here it's backwards. The "savior of humanity" is the villain while the hero is a hardass renegade
So, did anyone notice that when he died, his eyes turned back into normal human eyes? Like for the first time in so long, The Illusive Man AKA Jack Harper... was finally free.
to be his eye's looked exactly the same??
Holy shit, you're right! Never noticed it... one of the countless details I overlooked
I think that eyes is not because indoctrination TiM have that eyes in ME2 also
ExtremePlayGames his indoctrination is far more advanced in ME3 than in ME2. He also mentions at one point that he got 'improved' with Reapers' tech. And it is because of indoctrination. Look at the ending of ME2 where Harbinger releases control over that one Collector - his eyes turn back to normal.
My head cannon is that the illusive man started falling into indoctrination after getting the human reaper
Martin Sheen is so fucking boss. Most big name actors hired to do voice work in video games just sort of half-ass it, but Sheen freaking embodies the Illusive Man. An incredible actor for an incredible character.
Do you ever think that Mitt Romney looks like the Illusive Man ?
You have killed the joke. Thanks alot \-_-/
I think Jon Briddell looks like himself. Mitt looks like Mitt.
"That is enough Sheppard. Do not make me get my son Charlie in on this."
That was only part of his reason for reviving Shepard. In ME2 TIM isn't indoctrinated, and it's likely that he saw Shepard as part of a longer term plan for defeating the reapers.
The last words of the illusive man tore my heart out of my chest and threw it into deep space.
I think the Illusive Man is the best character in Mass Effect
Nah he’s number two.
Garrus is always number one.
You could fight like a Krogan, run like a leopard, but you’ll never be better than Commander Shepard
@Franky Torres he’s not evil but the writers randomly decided to make him that in the third game for all the new dumb cod players who can’t possibly understand complex writing
@@dylanchristie7259 what happened between cod players and mass effect 3? i think i missed the issue 10 year ago
It just occurred to me that the crucible is needed to control the reapers anyway; and that there's barely any reason for Shepard or Cerberus to fight each other.
Martin Sheen is fucking amazing.
I think he was made the antagonist was for two things a) for Shepard to have someone to oppose (since they got rid of Harbinger for some reason) and b) so they could deal with Cerberus without getting into shades of gray. Imagine, if you actually had to work with a guy that may not be a good guy! Ironically enough, he's not necessarily evil either. The horror of it all kicks in when you realize he's been indoctrinated from the very beginning.
They don't have to be a good or a bad guy that you are working with. They could be a neutral person.
His one right decision tho. He knew in himself what was happening. Kinda like feeling the high of winning at gambling and knowing the risk you might get addicted. He revived shephard knowing that. Knownig he had his own limitations and he needed someone else to fight for humanity. If you picked the last dialogue choice to be paragon he says "i tried" before shooting himself!
I wouldn’t know which version to pick for a compilation. I uploaded paragon, renegade and romance for every squad mate.
He always tried to control the reapers. In Mass Effect 2 he was obsessed in trying to understand them and always wanted to preserve every piece of reaper tech he found to reverse-engineer it to find a way to control them. Not once in ME2 he says to Shepard he wants to destroy the reapers, he speaks about protecting humanity and preserve it and he truly believes in it but he was being indoctrinated without noticing with this line of thought.
Is it wrong that I laughed when he said "Shepard, you're in my chair…"? xD
He was right the entire time. Literally the entire time he was right.
He was right about controling the reapers. He was wrong about using them to make humans the appex of evolution. And he would probably use the reapers to destroy all the other races.
look at you so self-righteous... do you this power like this comes easy?!
The Unknown But he couldn't have taken control, he was indoctrinated the whole time, the Catalyst confirms it before Shepard uses the Crucible.
@@shamelessmoose hell, he couldnt have even deployed it in the first place. Which fleet would have helped him? Where would the scientists and workers to build this come from? He was already indoctrinated at this point - his plan to actually fight the reapers wasnt thought out at all. He was focussed on hindering shepard.
Martin Sheen... such a perfect voice for TIM. And Jennifer Hale is equally stunning. She's the reason I prefer FemShep.
Characters who leaned towards the Illusive Man's philosophy like Garrus once believed that the goal should justify the means. Garrus learned the hard way that you should evaluate your methods. See, even though Sidonis unwillingly killed Garrus's squad, it was Garrus's fault for not seeing that event coming, he was so focused on driving his team to clean out Omega, he was blinded by his vanity, and Illusive Man almost made the same mistake as Garrus.
Actually, the renegade Shep is the good way to go. In the second game, you can give the collector data to the Illusive Man because controlling them is the best way to go (gather their knowledge, new technology, etc.). But, in the third game Illusive Man becomes indoctrinated, so you need to destroy the Reapers otherwise you'll get indoctrinated too.
Dom/\triX No. It's not.
Solaxe S Care to explain why?
they kill you instead
+Dom/\triX Its all opinion really. Its what you think. If you think controlling the reapers is the best option then it's the best option.
The Unknown The best ending (and hardest to get) is the Synthesis ending.
4:00 mass effect jack Harper reference anyone catch that one ?
3:03 = The Illusive Man's troll face
isn't it a renegade decision to not destroy the collector base and use the technology for humanity
Bradley Moulston It is but only because it's more destructive. Renegade is not always evil just the more ruthless route which is sometimes the better toute
Because he is misguided by his huberis. Its not that he's "evil", its because he's doing more harm to humanity than good, and he won't realize that until its too late. That's why you can't join him, because he has become what Uncharted 3 Drake's Deception calls a "Dreamer of the day", a person who won't slow down or stop for any reason until he completes his goal, even if it means hurting himself or the people he cares about.
Bioware botched TIM because they wanted a villian Shepard could wail on freely because the Reapers themselves cant be killed willy nilly like Cerberus troops can, Because Indoctrination sets in minorly almost instantly, TIM has been sitting in near isolation for years, How could he be indoctrinated when 6 months earlier he was gunning for the Reapers and the Collectors?
He was probably indoctrinated by artifacts recovered from the Collector base. He has his people salvage it regardless of whether or not Shepard destroys it, if you remember.
TIM doesn't go near the artifacts...
CyberVirus549 The remains of the proto-reaper are literally right outside his office.
Yes, Indoctrination only sets in if your bumfuck close to it, Like within a couple of meters, Unless the Reaper is alive, And Indoctrination sets in over years, Like the asari from Sarens base, Not over 6 months, Especially when he was fighting them.
CyberVirus549 I don't think they ever clearly state just how close you need to be to the object for it to have an effect you. But even if you forget about the proto-reaper, he has had contact with reaper tech before in Mass Effect: Evolution (resulting in the freaky eyes). The groundwork for his indoctrination was laid years before ME1.
Talks about to mantain the humanity "pure"... uses Reaper tech to create a husked race... WTF Bio???
I dunno, I thought it rather reflected the hypocrisy of racists and xenophobes (which is what TIM is, let's face it).
There's nothing wrong with Xenophobia or racism. Stop being so black and white.
flippedoutcookie based
@@razalfraz6618 Corrupt still
Oskar Toledo are we talking about Cerberus cuz I agree with the corrupt thing
a true renegade kept the damn base!
Yes, the total demolition of the TIM-character is the second biggest issue of ME 3 after the ending, followed by Udina and the ME 2 characters.
13:19 Illusive Man has a way better conclusion to his character if you don't pass the speech check.
End of the line, Jack Harper. You won't hurt anyone else for the sake of Cerberus.
fucking illusive man if he would of join shepard the war would of been more interesting
He should have been on Shepard's side. BioWare messed up with the writing in my opinion. The batarians would have been a better secondary antagonist - this was strongly foreshadowed in Bring Down the Sky but remained an unfired Chekhov's gun.
***** Cannibals are essentially robots made out of batarian and human parts. Not actual, living, feeling batarians.
*****
Hopefully in the next ME game we have the option of wiping the batarian's off the face of the galaxy forever.
Fuck TIM or Bioware? The Shitt writters did that.
This writing compared to Andromeda... It's not even close the writing of the original trilogy blows this new game out of the water. The stakes here are so high and everything is intense af while the new game just feels like a joke..
NO! TIM'S in control no one's telling him what too do!!!!
Martin Sheen FTW.
Just to make it clear, I'm not saying his beliefs and methods are wrong, its just that sometimes the means have to be evaluated, not just the end. If you always let the end justify the means, you might end up regretting what you've done in the end. Better safe than sorry.
In my head cannon, Mass Effect is what happens if the Vanu Sovereignty win the Planetside wars.
Because he did more to fight the reapers than any other political leader in the galaxy. The only reason he was a villain in ME3 was because he was indoctrinated. Otherwise I would have joined him immediately. I'd rather join TIM than the incompetent racist council or the hypocritical, backstabbing Alliance.
Shepard's Renegade attitude: STFU BITCH!
In all honesty,this is one of the few examples where renegade options are more practical.
Most of the time renegade options are just arrogance-driven, but this one is rather effective.
As Paragon,Shepard is like "don't you see?You are indoctrinated!" but there's little chance that you can convince someone that he's indoctrinated.
However, as Renegade ,Shepard is like "If you want to control them,why don't you try?" knowing that the Catalyst won't let TIM touch the crucible.
His arm pointing is cool
You know who else had glowing blue eyes? TIM, Reaper forces, and Saren. I think it's a little indoctrination-y...
People like the Illusive Man could to be the future of the humanity in real life, people intelligent and powerful... With the greatest ideas and the best for all of us... The illusive man was right, "There are sacrifices" those that is necessary experiment with anything, just for find a solution for anything.
I choose you, Illusive Man!
Your renegade Shepard is actually very attractive. More so than the Paragon version of the same video. Is this modded or is that Shepard possible on consoles?
When she doesn't have scars that is. >.>
Indeed she is.
you need 80 % paragon or renegage . but now with the extendet cut you just need the half
NO! NO!!! you..... you are so self righteous!
paragon/renegade/romance
Because Bioware can't make a true RPG that gives branching storylines off decisions while under the helm of EA.
what is the name of the music playing 12:09 to 12:42 right up to the point when TIM gets shot? I can't find it anywhere.
Check trough the soundtracks
Stormcloak Shreds helpful.
So what you are saying is TIM is the ultimate Paragon!
That's why I was so disappointed when I realized the Illusive Man was the sole leader. It would've made more sense to have the power divided between at least three people, each in charge of a different division. Political, Military, Research. Hence, "Cerberus."
But nooooo...Cerberus just became the human version of Collectors.
Your Shepard looks just like mine!
Except he makes the argument that every collaberator makes, and they all end up the same way.
It would've made for such a better plot if Illusive Man had taken control of the reapers using the prothean thing and he had taken them to kill all non human races. What a fucking disappointment to underuse such an excellent villain.
Can you do a compilation of all the wounded squadmates before Shepard is hit by Harbinger?
i don't see why he goes by the alias illusive man when we all know his real name Mitt Romney
I'm still irritated there's no option to just reply, "Fuck you". Especially in that first convo.
Something's been bothering me. How do you get the Paragon or Renegade option during the final confrontation with The Illusive Man? I know there's something you need to have done during the course of the game, but what is it?
NO!... i know how Tim think's he had it right he only wanted to protect humanity. to save it there are sacrafices that must be made for the greater good. for humanity. and nothing you could say will convince me otherwise!.. hahaha i know man but after mass effect 2 i decided to join and help tim with his goal. i was disappointed that we couldn't. because i'am to a dreamer of the day.
It's still kinda grey, but he's deluded so it turned obviously black pretty quick, lol.
It would've been grey if he actually manage to dominate an ENTIRE reaper, instead of all the husks. Some of the grey morality choices are a little obvious... because some of the greys are obviously darker, no? In ME2, destroying the collector base seemed like a waste, since all those ppl wouldve died for nothing. Like if you destroyed the Maelon's data, you wouldve wasted all the females' lives.
I think you're missing my point entirely. That, or I can't tell if you joking, cause that's not easy to get across in pure text.
What happens if you miss the renegade interrupt?
if you are talking about the final encounter you either get the paragon persuade option, or you have to hit the renegade interrupt, otherwise you get a non-standard game over where the illusive man kills you
yes both. i completely agreed with tim in ME2 and 3. i understand why we couldn't join him! but i wanted too.
Why is Tim's face fucked up like that at the end?.
He's implanted himself with reaper tech, presumably to get some of their control ability. I believe you get a video recording of the conversation prior to the operation if you check the archives in the base, where TIM's doctor raises some doubts about the risks of indoctrination.
I hate the fact that he still gets the last word in- when he talks about "how beautiful" the earth is- even in the Renegade version. It makes sense with the paragon path, where he realizes what he's allowed himself to become.
But in the renegade path, he just angrily rants and raves about how HE'S humanity's savior, and constantly tries to justify his actions. He never realizes that he's become one of the monsters he wants to control. He's got nothing left, and he's desperate to have Shepard's approval- to justify to himself what he's done. And as she keeps calling him out on what he's done, his focus is still totally on himself.
The only thing that finally ends his ego-maniacal tirade is a bullet. Honestly, Renegade Shepard should have shot him again, to silence him.
Bojack727 That line is great. It fits with both endings IMO though in the renegade setting it shows that he never realised his mistakes.
I agree. There should've been a Renegade interrupt to deny him his last words.
What would you have preferred they do with his character?
Sorry, I forgot one last thing at the end of my comment ":P".
i agreed with TIM why couldn't i join him.
Dude... Those scars and glowing red eyes. Do you get that by leaving the scars in ME2? Or do those come from something else?
Yes, you get to look like this if you leave the scars in ME2 and go Renegade. It's worth it though, there are some hilarious comments about them in Citadel DLC, in casino entrance sequence: czcams.com/video/9-eRPpReOwg/video.html
Damn... Next Shepard I start will DEFINITELY need to go renegade for that.
This isn't renegade if you destroyed the collector base in Mass Effect 3.
Cool
What do you mean 'which version'?
Why would anyone prefer glowing scars and glowing eyes? It looks ridiculous. Why wouldn't the paragon Shepard have glowing blue eyes?
Agreed, they really fucked up a fascinating character and turned him into some dumb generic movie villain. They may as well have given him a moustache to twirl.
It would have been cool if there was a renegade ending when Shepard aquires the reaper's power and becomes the all-powerful ruler of the galaxy. Why didn't Bioware think of that?
+Searches for Quality
Have you played mass effect 3?That is exactly what happened.
Nii Commey I played some of it, then stopped when I discovered how badly written the ending was. *spoilers* All three endings end with Shepard getting blown up along with the mass relays, regaldless of your ranking. Even in the control ending, he controls the reapers while dead. Which doesn't make sense to me. How can he/she control the reapers while dead?
+Searches for Quality Shepard can survive if you get a high enough ranking and choose the destroy option. There is a scene just before the credits that shows Shepard breathing beneath a pile of rubble, showing that he/she survived. If you choose the control option while having a mostly renegade reputation, then Shepard's mind uses the power of the Reapers to control the galaxy.
They did. That's one of the possible endings.
Because that would require Bioware to actually work on their game
he is indoctrinated you know that right?
a real renegade kept the collector base. this isnt renegade