Did you know that Saren and The Illusive Man (Jack Harper) have met in the past (First Contact War) and both contacted with reaper artefact (blue eyes, understanding reaper language). And both died in similar way, suicide.
actually I think the reapers and the fl00d r even, Every soldier that dies is one more soldier for their side, It'll just be an endless battle of husks VS these giant fat things that explode and those tiny fucks who crawl over everything
+Shrek nope flood are worse in the flood forerunner war the flood were able to rip the very fabric of reality to fight the forerunners that's why chief and the arbiter defeating the Gravemind was so important in that they stopped the infection from reaching forerunner flood war levels
TIM one of the only villains I have truly respected. More then that, he raised logically arguments, although I think exterminating the reapers is more logical for humanities survival. In my opinion he was 10000000000x better in ME2. Mainly because he was always ahead.
+reinux Pointless, why destroy them if you already control them? If you can control the reapers it is but a simple matter to remove/replace the intelligence/AI core. They are flying behemoths capable to manipulate and control organic life. There is no exception to it as with time you will be controlled, you will be subjugated and be indoctrinated. To give up that power, that technology, would be a fools doing. Idealistic but no less naive.
MrEmiosk Hm? I just mean that the Control option is effectively the Destroy option deferred. So whether you think the Reapers should be put to use or you think the Reapers, along with the rest of AI-capable technology, should be destroyed, the Control option grants both choices. Besides, I don't remember anything saying that a Reaper instructed to cease harvesting would still indoctrinate organics. Shepard in the Control option is no longer organic anyway. On the other hand, with the Control option, the Reapers would still be around to police the galaxy for rogue AIs -- whereas in the Destroy option, unless a species comes up with an alternative solution to the Reapers, a rogue AI will eventually emerge, potentially wiping out not just spacefaring AI-capable civilization but likely all organic life.
+reinux That's assuming you can control them at all and most importantly maintain control. If the Reapers ever were to break free of that control, or if the control fails, then the galaxy would be screwed. It's safer to wipe them out right away and make absolutely sure they can't come back.
Everything about the Illusive Man is excellent. From his theme music, to his dress code, to his voice, to his dialogue, to Martin Sheen's awesome performance. A truly great video game villain.
Looking at this again after I played through ME3, I do kind of wish Cerberus was handled a bit differently in this game. In ME2 Cerberus felt more organic and less cartoony; coming to know them by being in their ship with their resources made them feel more realistic, like you could actually buy them thinking that if the Alliance isn't looking out for humans, somebody has to. You had to work with them and act as a check (Paragon) or an enabler (Renegade) to their less savory actions and ways of thinking, the reasons they're considered a terrorist organization. We also got the feeling that Cerberus was subtle and artful in its approach; they're a rapier or a dagger, not a battleaxe. Skirmishes, skullduggery and political chattering should've ended with you steering Cerberus into either finding their identity as the guardian that The Illusive Man holds them up to be (Paragon) or everything the rest of the galaxy dreads about them (Renegade), but either way, using their "spend a whole lot on a bunch of specialized guys, know them inside and out, send them to critical points, question marks, profit for humanity" tentacles to first attempt to trip you up, then to strangle the Reapers. Ideally, I'd have played them a bit like the Daniel Craig-era Bond villains: they're not trying to take over the world so much as they've already taken over a certain kind of it: their money, influence and scheming allowing them to act at almost all times as if they are completely above the law, save for the few people who can rise to/stoop to their level, be it MI6 or a Spectre.
if you're suffering from depression then for the love of GOD dont talk to paragon Shepard, you'll be offing yourself the instant your finished talking with him/her
The same happens with renegade Shepard to Saren anyway. The implication is the Reaper's control is too strong so they kill themselves. It's better to die at your own will than to be a tool.
Lol yeah, Harbinger doesn't even have a single line of dialogue. Argh, it pains me how bad and inconsistent this game's story was (as a fan of the series).
Tlevids I wouldn't have minded it at all if they pulled a Saren at the end. It still wouldn't make up for the lack of a major Reaper antagonist. Have TIM shoot himself/get shot and after Shepard opens the arms have the camera pan to his body and his eyes open up again. "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" and actually give us a nice boss fight at the end of a Mass Effect game for once. And I'm not talking about a fight like Saren or the fucking Human Reaper, do something like the Shadow Broker with cutscenes spliced in, where it's actually fun to do it. At the end Shepard kills Harbinger/TIM and like Sovereign this fucks Harbinger's shields up, and you get a cutscene where the fleet blows it to shit. You would of course have to make it so Shepard wasn't beat the fuck up at the end of the game, but honestly I am always so pissed at having to basically crawl all the way through the ending. It's even more of a bitch during the 3 color choice, where it takes FOREVER to walk to whatever choice the game gives you. I honestly choose the 4th option one replays so I don't have to walk all the way to the fucking ending cutscene.
Harbinger should of been an antagonist throughout the game and also it would be awesome if harby took control of him like saren it would be a cool throwback to the first game.
6:56 "Cerberus isn't just an organisation or the people behind it. Cerberus - is an idea!" I think it's the most epic words, witch explained Cerberus and the Illusive man. But it sounds so tragic, hearing the theme in this moment, it also too dramatic.
5:08 Wouldn't it be great if he went on and was like "That chair cost me more money than the Lazarus Project! I spent more than billions of credits to get the Prothean technology needed to perfect the softness and comfort of that chair! It's the key to defeating the Reapers! Once we convince them our leatherwork technology is better than theirs, they will let us control them!"
You know, there is a Fanfiction story called The Catalyst For Revenge, where Humainity actually sides with Reapers. It`s real good, check it out if you would like.
problem is, for all that talk about "we can control the reapers", TIM could not demonstrate he could at least take control of one reaper. indoctrination really makes the smart turn stupid
I loved ME2 Illusive Man, he was complicated, he was beyond the simple villainy that beset most antagonists, I mean the mental spar between Shephard and TIM, it wasn't just a physical battle but a battle of philosophy. He was consistent, logical and above all his intentions were justifiable and noble. The man wanted to save humanity whatever means necessary, which is a lot more believable than the cliche "I'm gonna blow up the earth, for the evulz". Then ME3 Illusive Man happened...
+Lucas Kazama I disagree if anything his progression in Mass Effect 3 coincides with his character perfectly. after all since his introduction in Mass Effect 2, it's clear that his character was one that believed that the ends justify the means regardless of the cost and Paragon or Renegade, Shepard(at least my shepard anyways) would never truly trust the illusive man and the fact that he already showed signs of indoctrination only solidified as it fully took hold in Mass Effect 3
As dumb as that ending was, that last scene with him was cool to see. It makes sense too, if you look at it like a Reaper. Here's a human so bent on controlling everything he'll do whatever it takes to get ahead. Every bit of tech he gets, every bit closer he gets to you, he sees as a victory over you, but you know the closer he gets and the slower he does so, the better you can control and guide his actions. It's perfect, he's doing exactly the kind of thing you want. What's more, he's influencial, clever, with a ton of resources at his disposal and has close ties to that other human that's made your return problematic this cycle. He's the perfect tool to use to stall, make them fight eachother and if possible, sabotage their resistance from the inside. When your victory is assured, he can be harvested or disposed of. It's subtle but only when TIM tries to act against against you, do you directly control his motions to prevent it. He realises you're in charge, and terminates himself...
Illusive Man was right, controlling them is the best solution, but the problem is he got too close. So close they started manipulating him. He got indoctrinated. Even Shepard says at the end when the Crucible shows you the control option "He was right after all". If Shepard sided with the Illusive Man, the ending would have been happier. I wish they made the option "Side with the Illusive Man" at least as a secret ending.
This is the irony of it, the Illusive Man is right from the start. But even if Shepard offered all of his/her support, he would just make some shit up eventually to keep the conflict going, because he was indoctrinated.
TIME HAX pretty much it. The trick was beating the Reapers at their own game. The only ways you can lose was to either get killed (naturally) or get indoctrinated by the Reapers. The Illusive Man got indoctrinated so he was not worthy so to speak. Shepherd on the other hand was able to beat the Reapers despite every single obstacle thrown at him/her. Shepherd was so far the only character that was worthy to become the new face of the Reapers. The thing is for me is that I don’t think the Reapers are worth it so I always destroy them.
Ian we’ll have a proven weapon that will work so I’m not worried. Unless of course the Council races managed to to screw it all up again. Anyway it looked like the full force of the Reapers was present at all worlds so I am 99% confident they’ve been destroyed.
I mostly played Renegade in the trilogy but I almost always selected Paragon dialogue choices with TIM in 3 because I felt it was consistent. My Shepard was a loyal Cerberus agent in 2 so it makes sense in 3 that I'd try to convince him to come to his senses. When you talk to him at Cerberus HQ one of the normal dialogue choices is best though. "I can't help you anymore." The Illusive Man clearly always respected Shepard and my Shepard respected him, which is why the way things ended is such a tragedy.
Listen to the video logs in the Cerberus base, they were able to revive Shepard because the helmet kept the brain intact; if you got the ending where TIM shoots himself then reviving him is HIGHLY unlikely :P Good idea though
Personally wish the Illusive Man was a boss that you had to beat, and if you killed him the first time he would transform into this reaper like thing like Saren did in the first game
The game should have ended here, after Anderson died. No god child, no red, blue and green decisions. Happy ending. What would you rather have? No decisions at the end or the three decisions we got?
I think what really happened was that he never got over Harbinger taunting us a hundred thousand fucking times in ME2 and the only reason he wanted to control them was so he could shout "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL BITCH!" in Harbinger's face. Then he would fly them into a black hole.... While riding on Harbinger's fucking back...
Tiago Jonas He was betting everything on a possibility of control, which is what the Reapers made him truly believe through indoctrination. Ultimately, it was possible, but Shepard was the one who was given the option to make it happen upon speaking with the master of the Reapers. The reason why everyone was against The Illusive Man's methods was because it was a bargain with no guarantee of success at the time.
You need to pick Paragon or Renegade option every time you talk to TIM (Mars, Thessia, Cerberus HQ) for those options to be available in the last convo. You’ll also need Paragon/Renegade bar full or almost full.
LDub01031994 Because upon the end of the events surrounding the Collector base in ME2, Cerberus was indoctrinated by the Reapers. It's just like the Prothean VI said: even for their race, when the Reapers struck, one faction sought to destroy the Reapers, whereas the other tried to control them; and those that sought to control were indoctrinated by the Reapers, convinced it was a possibility due to this. Same for the Illusive Man and Cerberus.
They made TIM such a strawman in ME3... He rarely makes any sense and he never explains why controlling Reapers is his goal with compelling arguments... but "duh, indoctrination" Well that doesn't really do his character justice. Talk about pulling a part popper and it doesn't go "boom" So. Much. Wasted. Potential ;'-(
But if you pay closer attention, he in ME3 always seem like he's ... drunk. But there are moments of hesitation when Shepard's words cut close. "... no... i just..." or "..I... don't believe that." like that. He never seem to make sense because he is not making sense, he's no longer himself, he's been possessed by something else, something that's making him no longer able to see Reaper as the enemy. Instead he's now possessed by an almost religious compulsion, saying and repeating utter BS that he actually see as truth. But the cracks are there. His explanations fail, he's upset finding it difficult to accept how confused, how incoherent he actually is. So he gets angry and tries to shut out criticism as a way to defend his 'cause'. He's willing to kill just to cover up the gnawing 'brain cancer'. He keeps digging himself into an ever deeper hole thinking he's gotten ever closer to the treasure: treasure that actually does not exist except in his own deluded imagination. After seeing it several times, I'd say TIM in ME3 is brilliant, a brilliant portrayal of what happens if you allow yourself to be possessed by ideas: you're no longer a thinker, you're just an ideolog, a speaker, an NPC, and quite probably a jihadist.
The reputation rewards for the conversation on Thessia are flipped. The Paragon path is actually the intimidate option. Was hoping you would have caught this
Am I the only one that is disappointed that there is no option to side with the illusive man and help him out? He is talking about controlling something as big as the persidium!! That would kick ass!
TIM and shepard were never allies TIM saw Shepard as a tool also shepard had no reason too trust cerberus because of Akzue if you are sole survivor and also Shepard was using him not too mention shepard was never going too leave the alliance so they couldn't be allies
Isn't the Control Option the Catalyst and Reapers trying to trick you into doing their bidding by warping your mind, thinking it's the best and moral/paragon choice? Or was that theory debunked?
his name is jack harper and he was a human mercenary involved in the First Contact war on Shanxi...i think. the thing in his eyes is a result of touching some prothean artifact that gave him those weird eyes. that or cybernetics
there goes one of the greatest men ever. he always wanted to achieve his goals by all means necessary and would never give up. even the reaper indoctrination could not defeat him in the end. the only thing that could ever stop him was himself.
In ME2 he jumped at the idea of CONTROL over the Collector base, which control is an idea that his indoctrination seems to promote throughout ME3. Interesting Fact: During ME3 when you are getting the female krogan from the Salarians, you can hear this weird distinct sound while walking/running around in certain spots. You can also hear this sound when in the Rachni nests around reaper tech, as the game continues it gets common in some places like on the Tuchanka missions. What was that sound?
Illusive Man isn't necessarily wrong. Even if we destroy the reapers, who's to say that another threat wont appear afterwards? Controlling the Reapers would benefit humanity greatly
War Crimes Because in this fight its not just you. Everyone in the Galaxy is depending on you to do what is required of you. Not do what the Reapers tell you to do...
The Leviathans are a shadow of their former self. Probably only few are left, the ones you met. They dominated the Galaxy when the races were primitive, easy to control, now it's the other way arround. They are not stupid enough to try anything against us. In order for them to dominate anything they need orbs. No orbs, no control. Their time has passed.
I think the illusive man got indoctrinated mainly because of the human reaper corpse & partly from being around people using reaper tech in their heads.
The nanides were Reaper tech, right? So of course they can cause indoctrination, but something as small as an eye change from nanides would not necessitate indoctrination, I think the fact that TIM came in contact with an artifact is more alarming. Also that doesn't mean that everyone who is indoctrinated has nanides, just that the people who do have nanides are obviously in VERY close contact with really small Reaper tech. Oh and I doubt all artifacts cause huskification...
I really hope we get a remaster of the series. What I love about this whole bit is that because of the 3 choices I had, I chose to control them. I wasn't about to reset all technology and wipe out the Geth, not was I willing to force organic/synthetic synthesis evolution on all races so suddenly; I chose to control the Reapers, or at least influence them with my very self. In the end, the Illusive Man was right.
Because you said "nope lol" to that other user who merely stated that TIM was indoctrinated. His eyes indicate a small part of huskification, because that is what the tech did, it made husks. It was reaper tech in general, ALL reaper tech causes indoctrination :l
13:14 There's something I don't really understand about when he said that he 'tried', to do what exactly? Tried to help humanity? Tried to stop the reapers? Tried not to let them control him? All of the above?
To be fair, ME3 did a few things that contradicted the Codex, so perhaps that's the cause of the controversy. As for huskification, the Cerberus logs noted that the signal(s) the nanides within Husks respond to is/are the same as the one(s) used to indoctrinate, so Benezia might not have had nanides at the time she was encountered by Shepard, hence no visible physical alterations present. Cerberus soldiers had all sorts of crap put into their brains and their faces are bruised and glowing blue.
If you know the ME universe so well you would know that the faster the indoctrination happens the faster mental decay happens. You must SLOWLY over YEARS indoctrinate someone in order for them to last longer, and even when you are at the end of the game TIM is mentally fine, therefore the indoctrination had to have been a slow progress :l
The original ending involved a boos fight with TIM, ironically he was going to look like a Saren 2.0 :P Though he does have reaper tech inside of him, so it makes sense why he took a similar path as Saren :l
They're practically one and the same. All of the Husks were indoctrinated to the point where the only things they're capable of is akin to typical zombie traits. Logs from the Cerberus facility on Horizon even referred to the husk-conversion process as a phase of indoctrination, one of the last, in fact. On another note, who knows where the blasted eyes came from. All that really concerned me was his contact with the artifact. I figured at that point Cerberus was compromised.
Martin Sheen is a great voice actor, and narrator.
TIM: "I.... Tried Shepard..." I love this line!
It's like Saren's: "Thank you, Shepard"
Did you know that Saren and The Illusive Man (Jack Harper) have met in the past (First Contact War) and both contacted with reaper artefact (blue eyes, understanding reaper language). And both died in similar way, suicide.
+Fi Skirata Debateable. It depends on what route you go when confronting them.
Imagine him trying to control the flood from halo they make the reapers look like toddlers yet TiM would probably try to do it
actually I think the reapers and the fl00d r even, Every soldier that dies is one more soldier for their side, It'll just be an endless battle of husks VS these giant fat things that explode and those tiny fucks who crawl over everything
+Shrek nope flood are worse in the flood forerunner war the flood were able to rip the very fabric of reality to fight the forerunners that's why chief and the arbiter defeating the Gravemind was so important in that they stopped the infection from reaching forerunner flood war levels
Wait, arent the flood like hungry? I really don't think they'd be even interested in the reapers since the reapers are synthetic
TIM one of the only villains I have truly respected. More then that, he raised logically arguments, although I think exterminating the reapers is more logical for humanities survival. In my opinion he was 10000000000x better in ME2. Mainly because he was always ahead.
Andy Russell or you could control them, use them for whatever you need, and then fly them into a star.
+reinux Pointless, why destroy them if you already control them? If you can control the reapers it is but a simple matter to remove/replace the intelligence/AI core. They are flying behemoths capable to manipulate and control organic life. There is no exception to it as with time you will be controlled, you will be subjugated and be indoctrinated. To give up that power, that technology, would be a fools doing.
Idealistic but no less naive.
MrEmiosk Hm? I just mean that the Control option is effectively the Destroy option deferred. So whether you think the Reapers should be put to use or you think the Reapers, along with the rest of AI-capable technology, should be destroyed, the Control option grants both choices.
Besides, I don't remember anything saying that a Reaper instructed to cease harvesting would still indoctrinate organics. Shepard in the Control option is no longer organic anyway.
On the other hand, with the Control option, the Reapers would still be around to police the galaxy for rogue AIs -- whereas in the Destroy option, unless a species comes up with an alternative solution to the Reapers, a rogue AI will eventually emerge, potentially wiping out not just spacefaring AI-capable civilization but likely all organic life.
+Andy Russell I agree with you. He's Chaotic Neutral. He is not evil, he sees the facts, and tries to control them with drastic needs if need be.
+reinux That's assuming you can control them at all and most importantly maintain control. If the Reapers ever were to break free of that control, or if the control fails, then the galaxy would be screwed. It's safer to wipe them out right away and make absolutely sure they can't come back.
Everything about the Illusive Man is excellent. From his theme music, to his dress code, to his voice, to his dialogue, to Martin Sheen's awesome performance. A truly great video game villain.
I loved the first conversation, when I heard this familiar theme I was like: "It's him! He's back!"
Looking at this again after I played through ME3, I do kind of wish Cerberus was handled a bit differently in this game.
In ME2 Cerberus felt more organic and less cartoony; coming to know them by being in their ship with their resources made them feel more realistic, like you could actually buy them thinking that if the Alliance isn't looking out for humans, somebody has to. You had to work with them and act as a check (Paragon) or an enabler (Renegade) to their less savory actions and ways of thinking, the reasons they're considered a terrorist organization.
We also got the feeling that Cerberus was subtle and artful in its approach; they're a rapier or a dagger, not a battleaxe. Skirmishes, skullduggery and political chattering should've ended with you steering Cerberus into either finding their identity as the guardian that The Illusive Man holds them up to be (Paragon) or everything the rest of the galaxy dreads about them (Renegade), but either way, using their "spend a whole lot on a bunch of specialized guys, know them inside and out, send them to critical points, question marks, profit for humanity" tentacles to first attempt to trip you up, then to strangle the Reapers.
Ideally, I'd have played them a bit like the Daniel Craig-era Bond villains: they're not trying to take over the world so much as they've already taken over a certain kind of it: their money, influence and scheming allowing them to act at almost all times as if they are completely above the law, save for the few people who can rise to/stoop to their level, be it MI6 or a Spectre.
Took Liara long enough to realise it is pointless to point a gun at the hologram
The G-Man of mass effect
Colin DeSouza combined with the cigarette man from the x-files.
Sigh.. Liara, your enthusiasm is appreciated, but you can't shoot a hologram.
"You've Allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind somehow, now, you've become the Very Thing you swore to Destroy!" - OBI-WAN KENOBI
if you're suffering from depression then for the love of GOD dont talk to paragon Shepard, you'll be offing yourself the instant your finished talking with him/her
The same happens with renegade Shepard to Saren anyway. The implication is the Reaper's control is too strong so they kill themselves. It's better to die at your own will than to be a tool.
"Humanity" he just says it in such a cool way.
Illusive Man: Shepard...
Shepard: Martin Sheen...
Illusive Man: Commander Shepard...
SPACE BOOST!!!!!
Mass Effect 3 mistake number 27: The Illusive Man is set up as the main antagonist instead of Harbinger and the Reapers.
Lol yeah, Harbinger doesn't even have a single line of dialogue. Argh, it pains me how bad and inconsistent this game's story was (as a fan of the series).
Tlevids
I wouldn't have minded it at all if they pulled a Saren at the end. It still wouldn't make up for the lack of a major Reaper antagonist. Have TIM shoot himself/get shot and after Shepard opens the arms have the camera pan to his body and his eyes open up again. "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" and actually give us a nice boss fight at the end of a Mass Effect game for once. And I'm not talking about a fight like Saren or the fucking Human Reaper, do something like the Shadow Broker with cutscenes spliced in, where it's actually fun to do it. At the end Shepard kills Harbinger/TIM and like Sovereign this fucks Harbinger's shields up, and you get a cutscene where the fleet blows it to shit.
You would of course have to make it so Shepard wasn't beat the fuck up at the end of the game, but honestly I am always so pissed at having to basically crawl all the way through the ending. It's even more of a bitch during the 3 color choice, where it takes FOREVER to walk to whatever choice the game gives you. I honestly choose the 4th option one replays so I don't have to walk all the way to the fucking ending cutscene.
Harbinger should of been an antagonist throughout the game and also it would be awesome if harby took control of him like saren it would be a cool throwback to the first game.
ping!
Didn't Harbinger die in the end of the second game?
6:56 "Cerberus isn't just an organisation or the people behind it. Cerberus - is an idea!" I think it's the most epic words, witch explained Cerberus and the Illusive man. But it sounds so tragic, hearing the theme in this moment, it also too dramatic.
I agree. The illusive man is so blinded by his ambitions and indoctrination he can't see its over
Now that I look back on it, I don’t think the Illusive man have ever been dishonest with Shepard.
5:08
Wouldn't it be great if he went on and was like "That chair cost me more money than the Lazarus Project! I spent more than billions of credits to get the Prothean technology needed to perfect the softness and comfort of that chair! It's the key to defeating the Reapers! Once we convince them our leatherwork technology is better than theirs, they will let us control them!"
3:08 The Illusive Man's trololol face haha
I actually agree with TIM's control ideas. Shame we couldn't team up.
Well, it is the right way of thinking.
Control is an illusion, plus you turn into a husk if you choose that option.
You know, there is a Fanfiction story called The Catalyst For Revenge, where Humainity actually sides with Reapers. It`s real good, check it out if you would like.
Sure it's bad we can't choose his side, but still he's wrong because of his selfishness that blinds him so he can't believe he's indoctrinated.
problem is, for all that talk about "we can control the reapers", TIM could not demonstrate he could at least take control of one reaper.
indoctrination really makes the smart turn stupid
I loved ME2 Illusive Man, he was complicated, he was beyond the simple villainy that beset most antagonists, I mean the mental spar between Shephard and TIM, it wasn't just a physical battle but a battle of philosophy. He was consistent, logical and above all his intentions were justifiable and noble. The man wanted to save humanity whatever means necessary, which is a lot more believable than the cliche "I'm gonna blow up the earth, for the evulz".
Then ME3 Illusive Man happened...
i like me3 illusive man, they had to continue his story arc not just keep it the same. It wasnt him in the end, he was being controlled.
+Jon Bartolo I agree with you. More importantly, he died, what waste of character.
+Lucas Kazama I disagree if anything his progression in Mass Effect 3 coincides with his character perfectly. after all since his introduction in Mass Effect 2, it's clear that his character was one that believed that the ends justify the means regardless of the cost and Paragon or Renegade, Shepard(at least my shepard anyways) would never truly trust the illusive man and the fact that he already showed signs of indoctrination only solidified as it fully took hold in Mass Effect 3
As I've mentioned in a comment in a different video, Martin Sheen has done a great performance as the Illusive man
As dumb as that ending was, that last scene with him was cool to see.
It makes sense too, if you look at it like a Reaper. Here's a human so bent on controlling everything he'll do whatever it takes to get ahead. Every bit of tech he gets, every bit closer he gets to you, he sees as a victory over you, but you know the closer he gets and the slower he does so, the better you can control and guide his actions. It's perfect, he's doing exactly the kind of thing you want.
What's more, he's influencial, clever, with a ton of resources at his disposal and has close ties to that other human that's made your return problematic this cycle. He's the perfect tool to use to stall, make them fight eachother and if possible, sabotage their resistance from the inside. When your victory is assured, he can be harvested or disposed of.
It's subtle but only when TIM tries to act against against you, do you directly control his motions to prevent it. He realises you're in charge, and terminates himself...
Illusive Man was right, controlling them is the best solution, but the problem is he got too close. So close they started manipulating him. He got indoctrinated. Even Shepard says at the end when the Crucible shows you the control option "He was right after all". If Shepard sided with the Illusive Man, the ending would have been happier. I wish they made the option "Side with the Illusive Man" at least as a secret ending.
This is the irony of it, the Illusive Man is right from the start. But even if Shepard offered all of his/her support, he would just make some shit up eventually to keep the conflict going, because he was indoctrinated.
TIME HAX pretty much it. The trick was beating the Reapers at their own game. The only ways you can lose was to either get killed (naturally) or get indoctrinated by the Reapers. The Illusive Man got indoctrinated so he was not worthy so to speak. Shepherd on the other hand was able to beat the Reapers despite every single obstacle thrown at him/her. Shepherd was so far the only character that was worthy to become the new face of the Reapers.
The thing is for me is that I don’t think the Reapers are worth it so I always destroy them.
@@TheGeoCheese if you destroy them, just wait 50.000 years and the cycle will repeat
Ian we’ll have a proven weapon that will work so I’m not worried. Unless of course the Council races managed to to screw it all up again. Anyway it looked like the full force of the Reapers was present at all worlds so I am 99% confident they’ve been destroyed.
@@Ian-sm2ry how would the cycle repeat if the reapers are done?
I totally see my self taking the Illusive man side.
MARTIN SHEEN
Can u make a compilation of all the conversations with harbinger on ME3?
I mostly played Renegade in the trilogy but I almost always selected Paragon dialogue choices with TIM in 3 because I felt it was consistent. My Shepard was a loyal Cerberus agent in 2 so it makes sense in 3 that I'd try to convince him to come to his senses. When you talk to him at Cerberus HQ one of the normal dialogue choices is best though. "I can't help you anymore." The Illusive Man clearly always respected Shepard and my Shepard respected him, which is why the way things ended is such a tragedy.
I wish I was like the Illusive Man so I can have cool music play every time I appear anywhere.
If they can revive shepard they can revive the Illusive man. He might not be dead.
True O-O
Listen to the video logs in the Cerberus base, they were able to revive Shepard because the helmet kept the brain intact; if you got the ending where TIM shoots himself then reviving him is HIGHLY unlikely :P Good idea though
"I tried Shepard." so mellow dramatic.
Such a cool antagonist, in an amazing series.
Two years past, the inconsistent ending still hurts as hell. Wish they had worked out a different story-line for the Illusive man.
Personally wish the Illusive Man was a boss that you had to beat, and if you killed him the first time he would transform into this reaper like thing like Saren did in the first game
sean mcclelland According to the ME art book, they were actually planning something like that. No word on why they didn't though...
Bioware, Casey Hudson I believe, stated they decided not to go with TIM as a final boss because it was too "video-gamey."
A lot of people say I'm like the crazier version of this guy, I gotta tell ya I ain't seeing it.
Omfg I literally just got done beating borderlands 2 and killing handsome jack.
The game should have ended here, after Anderson died. No god child, no red, blue and green decisions. Happy ending. What would you rather have? No decisions at the end or the three decisions we got?
I'm using Mass Effect 3 for my college research paper, the game brings up alot of interesting debate regarding the morals/ethics of human advancement.
Myron Cuenca * A lot. Grammer is important for papers.
*grammar
oh the irony
jimai808 I have been waiting for someone to pick up on that. :)
No you weren't
@@PatrickOMulligan and no one really cares about alot
I think what really happened was that he never got over Harbinger taunting us a hundred thousand fucking times in ME2 and the only reason he wanted to control them was so he could shout "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL BITCH!" in Harbinger's face. Then he would fly them into a black hole.... While riding on Harbinger's fucking back...
I have been look all over for this set of content! You have done me another service. Thank you, good sir.
Martin Sheen was an awesome actor to base the Illusive Man on.
So, the Illusive Man was right after all...
Tiago Jonas He was betting everything on a possibility of control, which is what the Reapers made him truly believe through indoctrination. Ultimately, it was possible, but Shepard was the one who was given the option to make it happen upon speaking with the master of the Reapers. The reason why everyone was against The Illusive Man's methods was because it was a bargain with no guarantee of success at the time.
If he weren't kidnapping people against their will and turning them into mindless husks he would be the most capable man in the series.
You need to pick Paragon or Renegade option every time you talk to TIM (Mars, Thessia, Cerberus HQ) for those options to be available in the last convo. You’ll also need Paragon/Renegade bar full or almost full.
TIM was always better as a foil. It was so dumb of them to ruin that.
LDub01031994 Because upon the end of the events surrounding the Collector base in ME2, Cerberus was indoctrinated by the Reapers. It's just like the Prothean VI said: even for their race, when the Reapers struck, one faction sought to destroy the Reapers, whereas the other tried to control them; and those that sought to control were indoctrinated by the Reapers, convinced it was a possibility due to this. Same for the Illusive Man and Cerberus.
Martin Sheen always gave a beautiful performance.
You're in my chair xD
They made TIM such a strawman in ME3... He rarely makes any sense and he never explains why controlling Reapers is his goal with compelling arguments... but "duh, indoctrination"
Well that doesn't really do his character justice. Talk about pulling a part popper and it doesn't go "boom"
So. Much. Wasted. Potential ;'-(
But if you pay closer attention, he in ME3 always seem like he's ... drunk. But there are moments of hesitation when Shepard's words cut close. "... no... i just..." or "..I... don't believe that." like that.
He never seem to make sense because he is not making sense, he's no longer himself, he's been possessed by something else, something that's making him no longer able to see Reaper as the enemy. Instead he's now possessed by an almost religious compulsion, saying and repeating utter BS that he actually see as truth. But the cracks are there. His explanations fail, he's upset finding it difficult to accept how confused, how incoherent he actually is. So he gets angry and tries to shut out criticism as a way to defend his 'cause'. He's willing to kill just to cover up the gnawing 'brain cancer'. He keeps digging himself into an ever deeper hole thinking he's gotten ever closer to the treasure: treasure that actually does not exist except in his own deluded imagination.
After seeing it several times, I'd say TIM in ME3 is brilliant, a brilliant portrayal of what happens if you allow yourself to be possessed by ideas: you're no longer a thinker, you're just an ideolog, a speaker, an NPC, and quite probably a jihadist.
The one on Mars was the one I never got. This time I will, thanks to you
Illusive Man is honestly a perfect villain.
looks a lot like mitt romney
He's supposed to look like Emilio Estavez, Martin Sheen's son.
Actually he's suppose to look like Martin Sheen himself.
Dale Guimond Martin Sheen when he was younger
The reputation rewards for the conversation on Thessia are flipped. The Paragon path is actually the intimidate option. Was hoping you would have caught this
The one thing he never raised as a logical argument: destroying the Reapers doesn’t solve the problem. You simply make the problem faceless.
I'm gonna say it.
The Illusive Man is kind of a snack.
"Shepard. You're. In. My. Chair!"
Sucked how he wasn't as impactful in ME3 as ME2 but Martin Sheen killed it with the delivery as always
He briefly shut his eyes before pulling the trigger.
Am I the only one that is disappointed that there is no option to side with the illusive man and help him out? He is talking about controlling something as big as the persidium!! That would kick ass!
TIM and shepard were never allies TIM saw Shepard as a tool also shepard had no reason too trust cerberus because of Akzue if you are sole survivor and also Shepard was using him not too mention shepard was never going too leave the alliance so they couldn't be allies
Isn't the Control Option the Catalyst and Reapers trying to trick you into doing their bidding by warping your mind, thinking it's the best and moral/paragon choice? Or was that theory debunked?
When I grow up I wanna be the illusive man...!
That question, goes so well with your picture! haha.
That’s what I meant, I don’t know bool/int values to change that.
his name is jack harper and he was a human mercenary involved in the First Contact war on Shanxi...i think. the thing in his eyes is a result of touching some prothean artifact that gave him those weird eyes. that or cybernetics
It was in fact a indirect contact with a Reaper artefact that turned organics into husks.
Funny that this doesn't change the ending at all.
Admiral kohaku begs to differ
1:57
That's the thing about evolution, there is no "apex."
He falls over like a scholar too!
Like the best hero and villain dichotomies, their true conflict is a battle of ideas.
Shepard, never ever try to be a therapist : every time you try to stop people from being controlled, they suicide. Saren, Illusive Man ...
The former member of Cerberus Commander Shepard
The Eternal Anglo of Mass Effect
i just skipped to the end to see the last one
There's more in recordings found at his base, and a brief conversation with Leng when the Citadel coup fails.
He looks sad after the first conversation
TIM hat in einem Punkt Recht, wir müssen uns als eine Rasse verstehen. Nur so schaffen wir es die Menschheit zu dem Höhepunkt der Evolution zu machen
I agree with the illusive man's ideals too bad I cant fight for him and Cerberus in mass effect 3
In that case why not make killing illusive man and taking over Cerberus a renegade option?
Achilles RodriguezXX you want to be space Nazi.
there goes one of the greatest men ever. he always wanted to achieve his goals by all means necessary and would never give up. even the reaper indoctrination could not defeat him in the end. the only thing that could ever stop him was himself.
In ME2 he jumped at the idea of CONTROL over the Collector base, which control is an idea that his indoctrination seems to promote throughout ME3.
Interesting Fact: During ME3 when you are getting the female krogan from the Salarians, you can hear this weird distinct sound while walking/running around in certain spots. You can also hear this sound when in the Rachni nests around reaper tech, as the game continues it gets common in some places like on the Tuchanka missions. What was that sound?
Illusive Man isn't necessarily wrong. Even if we destroy the reapers, who's to say that another threat wont appear afterwards? Controlling the Reapers would benefit humanity greatly
You are fighting for freedom in the Galaxy... not for a rushed advancement.
Hurlock alpha Why can't I have the freedom to fight for rushed advancement
War Crimes Because in this fight its not just you. Everyone in the Galaxy is depending on you to do what is required of you. Not do what the Reapers tell you to do...
Hurlock alpha What if I tell the Reapers tell me to do what is required of me
The Leviathans are a shadow of their former self. Probably only few are left, the ones you met. They dominated the Galaxy when the races were primitive, easy to control, now it's the other way arround. They are not stupid enough to try anything against us. In order for them to dominate anything they need orbs. No orbs, no control. Their time has passed.
He meant that he tried to break their control, but he couldn't since it's permanent.
I think the illusive man got indoctrinated mainly because of the human reaper corpse & partly from being around people using reaper tech in their heads.
I really wanted to say from the start
You sound just like Seran, think about it James.
*Indoctrinated
Really? I wouldn't have known that without your powers of deduction!
Imagine if you save the Collectors base, you should have to go back there to kill the Illusive Man. If I was him that be my new home.
The nanides were Reaper tech, right? So of course they can cause indoctrination, but something as small as an eye change from nanides would not necessitate indoctrination, I think the fact that TIM came in contact with an artifact is more alarming. Also that doesn't mean that everyone who is indoctrinated has nanides, just that the people who do have nanides are obviously in VERY close contact with really small Reaper tech. Oh and I doubt all artifacts cause huskification...
*suffering people... aliens are in the reapers too, in fact it is the suffering of like 99999999999999999999 different lives.... probably more.
Final Dialogue will not work if you choose intimidate him because you get 5 Paragon if you choose that option?
I really hope we get a remaster of the series. What I love about this whole bit is that because of the 3 choices I had, I chose to control them. I wasn't about to reset all technology and wipe out the Geth, not was I willing to force organic/synthetic synthesis evolution on all races so suddenly; I chose to control the Reapers, or at least influence them with my very self. In the end, the Illusive Man was right.
I agree with his philosophy but not his methods, however, the Cerberus grasp of science and technology was absolutely awe inspiring.
Because you said "nope lol" to that other user who merely stated that TIM was indoctrinated. His eyes indicate a small part of huskification, because that is what the tech did, it made husks. It was reaper tech in general, ALL reaper tech causes indoctrination :l
illusive man was a cool bad guy
13:14 There's something I don't really understand about when he said that he 'tried', to do what exactly? Tried to help humanity? Tried to stop the reapers? Tried not to let them control him? All of the above?
To be fair, ME3 did a few things that contradicted the Codex, so perhaps that's the cause of the controversy.
As for huskification, the Cerberus logs noted that the signal(s) the nanides within Husks respond to is/are the same as the one(s) used to indoctrinate, so Benezia might not have had nanides at the time she was encountered by Shepard, hence no visible physical alterations present. Cerberus soldiers had all sorts of crap put into their brains and their faces are bruised and glowing blue.
and just like that, Bioware wasted one of their best characters to make a carbon copy of Saren in his final moments.
5:55 let me think.... YOU WERE DEAD AND I BROUGHT YOU TO LIFE
Cortana you ask witch is the machines you see in am the machine who can walk
He's the man!
If you know the ME universe so well you would know that the faster the indoctrination happens the faster mental decay happens. You must SLOWLY over YEARS indoctrinate someone in order for them to last longer, and even when you are at the end of the game TIM is mentally fine, therefore the indoctrination had to have been a slow progress :l
The original ending involved a boos fight with TIM, ironically he was going to look like a Saren 2.0 :P
Though he does have reaper tech inside of him, so it makes sense why he took a similar path as Saren :l
The Reapers are now in my thoughts.
They're practically one and the same. All of the Husks were indoctrinated to the point where the only things they're capable of is akin to typical zombie traits.
Logs from the Cerberus facility on Horizon even referred to the husk-conversion process as a phase of indoctrination, one of the last, in fact.
On another note, who knows where the blasted eyes came from. All that really concerned me was his contact with the artifact. I figured at that point Cerberus was compromised.
Those blue and red options where greyed out at my 2nd playtrough why?
please somebody help me!