Populism's Growth In Europe | Question Time
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Why was Sam Altman fired from OpenAI? Would a secret ballot have saved a soft Brexit? What options are left for Rishi Sunak after Supreme Court’s Rwanda ruling?
Join Alastair and Rory as they answer all these questions and more on this week’s Question Time.
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00:00 - Intro
00:59 - Sam Altman and Open AI
06:31 - AI taking root
08:31 - Shouty journalists
10:46 - Alastair on handling Iraq outrage
12:00 - Dutch election
16:00 - Big policies
18:40 - Compulsory voting
20:15 - Behaviour of MPs
21:28 - Rwanda
26:00 - Refugee barge cost
27:00 - Understanding the UK political system
As usual gentleman an informative podcast.
I feel calm and collected when I listen to you and I am able to learn more about politics and other issues you discuss.
I hate feeling upset and agitated and any pressure to pick a side.
Enjoy your weekend both of you.
Cant get enough of these discussions, you're both doing an incredible job. Thank you so much for restoring some normalcy back into political media, much love.
Rory's citizens assembly idea is very very similar to an idea I've been floating for a good while to help ensure democratic accountability. In my mind, if a jury of your peers is good enough to help establish a legal position in a court, it's absolutely good enough to scrutinize an elected government's actions.
As long as the jury itself meets, discusses/debates and votes. And by videocall...
@@maejohl "Oi'll give it foive" 👍.
A citizens assembly is a daft idea and will never happen.
Sounds susceptible to corruption to me
When I open CZcams and there is a new episode of this podcast I am so happy
From an American who follows British politics while living in Hungary: I learned a lot from Vernon Bogdanor’s Gresham College lectures about how British/UK politics works and has worked in historical context. It was a very good starting place and has enabled me to follow things much more comprehendingly.
Living in Hungary 😂
out of all the european cities/countries u could have chosen, u pick hungary. tells me all there is to know about u and ur views.
@@laujack24 Rubbish - you have no knowledge of this fellow, perhaps he married a Hungarian, or he works there?
@@janjasiewicz9851 american works in hungary hahaha, dont make me laugh. for what? eastern european wages, shitty food or subpar weather? only rubbish thing here is we r on the internet any one can be who ever they claimed them self to be. any ways I waste enough time with u lots, c ya
@@laujack24you, sir, are what’s wrong with the internet. You know absolutely nothing about me or my views on anything other than Vernon Bogdanor. In fact, I now know more about you than I care to. Good day to you.
Love your podcasts. Please keep doing what you are doing. Your breath of knowledge is amazing x
Breadth of knowledge, I think you mean 😊
@@Iano1049bone apple tea. 😅
Loved the image of Ghost in the Shell at 1:16. Big kudos to the editor 🙌
amazing film!
Eating pie while watching this, jolly good lads.
What a great combo.
Have to say you two bounce off each other really well.
I find myself binge watching, moreover being educated in in a calm, non shouting way that is the childish playground of the Commons.
Keep up the good work chaps, I''m a better person for your calm fun delivery.
Rory pulling those faces / grimaces makes me think of Wallace from Wallace and Gromit.
Good luck for your new book Alastair!
Excellent podcast. Many thanks.
Julius added July, Caeser Augustus added August, and that's why we have the tenth month beginning Oct-, the eleventh Nov- and the twelfth months Dec-, which were originally months 8, 9 and 10.
You know that this is a cool podcast when they include a screenshot from Ghost in the Shell. The best anime ever made.
Thank you❤
Highlight of the day, you 2 !. Not being treated as a profit opportunity is sooo addictive.
Just to keep the balance because I cant lie I am scared about the state of affairs in the world for all of us . But I am standing the middle ground with all my weight without sitting on any fence .. keep the moral high ground gentlemen someone needs to and youre both doing an absoulutely superb job
I’ve started noticing that you make a face after you’re done speaking Rory! It means your brain is coming up with good stuff! Keep up the good work guys.
10:46 - Alastair on handling Iraq outrage
If you're expecting this 74 second segment to deal with Alastair's handling of the outrage that was the illegal invasion and subsequent destruction of an entire society then you should probably skip it.
Don't understand how Alastair can even mention Iraq after all of his and Tony Blairs lies and Dr.Kelly's death. The man with a conscience
The war was not illegal. And there were no lies. Multiple inquiries have shown this.
Short answer to the video title? The economic and social philosophy of people like Stewart and Campbell. There. Glad I could simplify that for you.
The reason why far right politics is in the ascendency is because the neo-liberal project engineered by Thatcher and Reagan (Friedman economics with Hayekian philosophy) has failed. Triple down economics don't work. There's plenty of reputable economic research to support this. The 2008 crash brought this to a head. People's living standards are going down, austerity doesn't work. People want someone to blame - and as ever it's easier to blame the migrant rather than the billionaire. Everything from the Greek financial crisis to Orban, Brexit and Trump stems from the failed neo-liberal capitalist consensus. Centrists will forever be scrabbling in the dark until they recognise this. They don't fully acknowledge the reality because they are generally affluent and don't swim in the same waters as the majority of the population. These guys along with Maitliss, Kuensburg et al are good at the palace intrigue of politics but cannot understand why people are voting for Trump, Brexit etc. Yes there's a reactionary media sphere of Murdoch, the Daily Mail and Fox news but there's also the establishment 'liberal' media of the BBC and CNN etc who cannot understand the underlying trend of an increasing working poor and disillusionment in the political institutions that have been asleep at the wheel for at least 15 years now. And all the while there's the grim spectre of global climate change in the background. Hopefully the new generation coming through the system can have the imaginative policies to spark a new kind of politics that can transform people's lives or at least stop the decay.
'Triple down?' is this trickle down on steroids?
a typo - but now you say it - perhaps it is steroid trickle down. And as someone who grew up alongside the massive steroid abuse of young working class men with orange tans and tattooed bicep angst, it's easy to see this steroid induced rage in the eyes of statue defenders and Farage devotees. @@tedf1471
thankyou very much 🙂 x
On the AI issue there is one major thing that needs to be looked, the impact on the labour market. It’s just like the Industrial Revolution when large sections of the labour force were replaced my machinery. We have already seen strikes in the US from many sectors, among them the film industry, where studios tried to impose AI in the film industry. I just feel that politicians are 2 or 3 steps behind when it comes to the impact of AI on the job market. This can potentially cause social strife in the near future if things are not handled carefully politically.
AI is yet another reason why we didn't need the UK flooded with low skilled labour under free movement post 2004.
And I am sure you're as confident as I am in the ability of politicians to handle the issue carefully. *screams silently*
Remember Harold Wilson’s speech 1963 about the “white heat of technology”?
A citizens' assembly (randomly selected) wouldn't be as good as aggregating up authority from the whole of the populous, for example with an app, and those representatives being the assembly members
Love how much Rory talks about citizens assemblies. They would make such a difference, if implemented well (which needs to include access to experts to answer questions of fact).
Keep up the work guys , love the podcast
Absolutely love the Citizen's Assembly idea
Unfortunately I don’t trust my fellow citizens😂 I would not really want to be judged by a Jury either .
Thank you so much for these fascinating podcasts which rise above party politics beautifully. Can I please ask you a question for the next one, inspired by the one today about shouty questions? I keep listening to politicians (Conservatives mainly, sorry Rory) who say things that provably untrue. A classic example today - we had the highest net migration figures ever last year - and this is legal migration - and it's a cold, hard number so it can't be argued, and when asked about it today Rishi Sunak said that his government has done more than any other in history to reduce migration. My question to you is, do you think that this strategy works? Are the public (or at least enough of them) simply likely to believe what they want to believe - and if so - what does that mean for democracy today? Thank you either way - love listening to you.
The legal migration we have today (excluding HK and Ukraine) is people on visa's either for work or education for which they are contributing large sums of money. By virtue of those visa's the entitlement they have from the British state is limited as is the time they can stay, unlike the EU citizen whose entitlement to health housing benefits etc was identical to UK citizens and they could stay indefinitely. If we had remained in the EU the total migration figures would probably now be around a million annually.
On Pieter Omtzigt and het toeslagenschandaal (benefits scandal): the government knew from 2017 onwards that they had wronged the families because the targeting was illigitimate. A senior civil servant (legal advisor) brought this up and advised that they should compensate the families. However they did not do this and continued to ignore it. Pieter Omtzigt together with two other MP's continued to ask questions in parliament and eventually brought this to light. A lawyer (Eva Gonzalez Perez) for a group of parents who were wronged first contacted him to ask him for help. And journalists from Trouw and NRC helped as well.
The above mentioned civil servant will now become an MP, because NSC won so much.
Love Rory's citizen jury idea..
Ive wondered if a system where we vote mps in then the cabinet and PM are then employed in the same way as a job application where members of the public can apply for the job and parliament determine the successful candidates. All the voting control and power still sits in parliament. The cabinet have a set contract and have to reapply for the job, they are effectively on zero hour contracts which allow them to be fired if needed a lot easier. You could also suggest some qualifications from the applicant and a public job interview. Etc.
Loved the Caesar trilogy Rory. You reminded me of Kato a principled, humanitarian, political figure.
You should get Matthew Goodwin on. Could be a REALLY interesting conversation on this topic.
Please can you guys keep us upto date with whats happening in argentina, we dont get many english news updates
so smart!
I like the idea of a citizens assembly, but those on the right do not like the idea. It was discussed on radio 4.
Tory MPs should be investigated for misconduct in public office?
When Alistair gets annoyed that the first he knew about Rory's involvement in Julius Caesar was reading about - is the same sort of irate that my wife gets when she hears from a mutual friend that I'm doing something at the weekend. I think you make a beautiful power couple.
I like you podcast very much and watch them religiously, but one correction: the Rutte 4 government did not fall over the Child Benefit Scandal (Toeslagen Affaire), but internal disagreement about family reunion policies regarding immigrants
Nice still from Ghost in the Shell at 1:16.
Is the studio being redecorated?
28:27 in maths, an isomorphism is a relation (or function, if you will), which transforms one system into another, without losing any functional elements. A homomorphism is when the target system isn't larger than the source sustem.
Love the idea of a citizen assembly
The discussion is not wether there are moral risks, but about the likelihood of those moral risks.
I lived in Amsterdam when Pim Fortuyn was assassinated then Theo Van Gogh.
It was popular and present 20 years ago in Nederland. It didnt just creep up.
It may bring a growth boom, but certainly at the expense of a lot of mid salary jobs. Marketing departments slashed in 1/2 or more, customer services, procurement all will be decimated. Low paid - moving things about jobs safe, senior management safe, but the middle will be hit very badly.
Growth boom for all the individuals at the top of the pyramid. Rest of the people just stay home and play on the iPads or computers
assuming they can afford them.
This has nothing to do with anything discussed in this vid so forgive me, but Rory,, what is that piece of art you have in the background? Looks very interesting.
when we have governments that dont look after their people properly, this is what happens.
as an ex commando i done my stints in N Ireland.
72 and 74 i realised the catholics were being badly treated.
as a prodie from glasgow my opinion changed dramatically.
the right is always first to shout, but last to do anything.
three cheers for mo molam and her visits to the maze.
labour sorted most of it out, the tories were too far up the backsides of the unionists to be effective
I wonder whose decision it was to slip in a image from Ghost in the Shell? Alistair?
that caught me off guard as well. well cultured editor
I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on Viktor Orbán and the way present Hungarian politics, with their Russia friendly ideology, are going to affect EU and the rest of Europe.
Sabine Hossenfelder has a great video on what may have been going on.
In short, she suspects (and I concur) that he may have been raising money for AI hardware without telling the board.
"AI meand the price of cognition will go down to zero" Harvard prof. Lakani - now people who produce 'words' protest and downplay AI (Hollywood writers, humanities professors, journalists), very soon other forms of thinking will follow. Can we distribute gains made from non-human cognition fairly and how? Rory? Alistair?
If not able to vote having aa active and visible youth parliament as aswell as a people’s forum maybe useful. And maybe a mechanism to call for a change of government via a referendum system if there is too much discontentment
"Populist" = people who are popular that I don't like.
Alastair would never describe Tony Blair as a populist.
On 22nd November France 2 Infos ran a report where Family Allowance was trialling AI to answer online enquiries.
The most interesting bug that needed working out was that, when the AI didn't know the answer, it made something up 😮.
Human or what 😢😊?
Surely manufacturing (robots) and financial markets (software) automation massively boosted productivity.
Is that art work, behind Rory, Cixi last Empress Dowager of China?
When labour praise bankers and EU officials, instead of workers, people who suffer high costs of living, choose the one who can speak the point out the issue.
Quick comment re Supreme Court case and refoulement: It is not uncommon for an 'appeal' court to decide a case on narrow grounds and not necessarily deal with more substantive matters.
On the new Napoleon film, Bart Van Loo, a Belgian writer who wrote 'Napoleon, the shadow of the revolution' (2014), only had praise for how good the movie looked. But it is a collection of historical inaccuracies. Shooting canon balls at the pyramids never happened. Ridley Scott just put that in, "to convey that he conquered Egypt".
And, apparently, the movie is love scene, battle, love scene, battle, love scene, ...
And, of course, Napoleon wouldn't have meant anything, but for the woman behind him, who would be the real mastermind.
Van Loo has rewritten his book, and updated it with some newly discovered findings about Napoleon. I'd go with the book.
Blooming Brandon Lewis - my useless, invisible MP! The local rag recently stated he has SIX other jobs!
Did you know CS Lewis wanted to but never have the time to write about socio/political/religious principles history for children but recognised he would never have the time maybe you could both get your heads together and write a classic for kids for all time
Why you don’t discuss about UBI connect to AI and future politics
I haven't heard of any example second job for mps that isnt a conflict of interest
When I saw those Hamas protestors on the news, I was like, " the conservative heartland is going to vote in anyone who condemns and puts down protestors wearing the garb and carrying posters that sing praises of Hamas."
Any thoughts on the very low voting turnout out (approx’ 34% I believe)?
Compulsory Voting: There are some people who have religious or spiritual beliefs that do not permit voting. If you want more people to vote also make general and local elections paid national bank holidays as an incentive to vote.
A big way to get more people to vote is to provide proportional representation in national elections. Many people are aware of the gerrymandering the Conservatives have done and so they have lost confidence in the current system. Also, many MPs don't come from the constituencies they claim to represent. There is a perception amongst many that they represent their donors and not the people of the UK, this is evident in the scandals we see year on year. We also see candidates for our local MPs Selected by parties and donor's and not by the local people. Elections are as fake as American wrestling, just look at what happened to the Labor party since the selection of Sir K. He made all the right noises on his climb up the greasy poll and then when he was selected he cleared all the voices that didn't follow the party "vision" and went back on his word about everything.
The conservatives are equally as bad, but just so openly corrupt at this point Spitting Image could not do a sketch that would be able to top it.
They are a bag of bastard's so why would we even give you our attention yet allone our mandate (represented by our votes) to continue destroying our society, working conditions and our planet.
The corruption in politics is hard wired in and so mass apathy is what they want. I won't be surprised if they take the vote completely away from the common UK citizen. Your corruption is the reason why the extreme right wing is coming to power, and we will all face the consequences. This happened before British civil war, the French Revolution, in Russia, China and in Germany just before the Nazi party took over. It is happening now in Israel (a very right wing coalition, who's election was already causing internal strife, the war has been a great distraction from that btw) in our European neighbours and unfortunately here.
For anyone whom as studied history this is a frightening time to be alive, in the past 10 years the ordinary citizens have lost more civil, personal and political rights than at any other time in our history and those freedoms that our forebears fought and died for have been stolen by your class.
Microsoft has basically swallowed up OpenAI for half price (a 49% stake).
Expect to see OpenAI's work cropping up as standard in Windows 12, in Office 365 and making Bing fully AI-based.
It already is - it's called copilot
AI Clippy!
@@hyksos74
"It looks like you're invading a country..."
Already happening
Rory is broadcasting from the office of a British ambassador, who he just happens to be staying with. Alastair is in the attic, where earlier in the day his wife was rummaging in the storage boxes for the Christmas decorations
😊
1:16 ghost in a shell (1995)??
When Rory says this is a tiny world, it displays the issues with right-wing populism. They run on platforms of insularity and isolationism.
Not just Europe
"refouler" is "to push back" (could be a crowd). 🇨🇵
Norman Courts are Foreign. Bring back the Danelaw.
@@docastrov9013 Why would you swap a Norman court for a Danelaw one - both foreign? I'd be interested to know 🤔.
The Normans were third generation Danish immigrants to the area they invaded England from anyway 🤔.
The King of France gave the immigrants Normandy (place of the men of the North) to get them to stop harrying the rest of their neighbours.
I wanted to write just that...
In normal French "refoulement" is certainly *not* "recrowding," whatever that might mean.
@@jeanmarkert3632 +1 Alastair's linguistic skills sound a bit overblown to me, judging by his pronunciation, but it's better than nothing, which is what the slave class (of my birth) has access to nowadays. 🇨🇵🇩🇪🇸🇦.
The other week Rory was waxing lyrical about someone's "beautiful Arabic", a very public-school "Seven Pillars..." romantic notion. 😂
Have either of you seen the new Napoleon movie? What are your thoughts?
30% of the vote; suggests substantial coalition needed.
If compulsory voting was brought in I would vote against the party that introduced it automatically. Also 30% of registered voters consistently do not vote in general elections, I would include this figure in the post election graphs and we can see just how low a percentage Tory or Labour really get
Interesting how these politicians who are supposedly lovers of democracy dismiss those who don't vote or spoil their ballot papers with a shrug!
It's particularly striking when you look at Parliamentary By Elections which, notwithstanding wall-to-wall media coverage never reach 50% turnout. In other words, 'None of the above' wins!
Australia has compulsory voting. If you don't like any party you can abstain, but you still have to get off your lazy backside and do your civic duty.
Just an idea, factually based. Stable, progressive, open minded countries who build well funded public services attract top class companies & productivity soars.
Good discussion. Compulsory voting? Not sure. Taking a test before you can vote to show you understand the issues? Probably.
Citizens assemblies are much better than politicians for many decisions. It’s called sortition- the wikipedia page is interesting.
We have a sufficiency of assemblies. The Lords could be revisioned. One elected house is enough. The second must usefully be free from infection from that elected. Random appointment, as per jury, to serve for a period as a duty. The conditions and censures as per jury. Penalties for parties as per jury-fixing.
Again, Alistair, we remember when you went full throttle for the bbc.
That shit is everywhere nowadays
question to you both is the following statement true or false THERE ARE TWO TRUTHS IN THE CONFLICT IN THE HOLYLANDS ?
Thinking about AI, good and bad, once I tried to devise a spectrum of disability .... ability. I wonder if something on a single page could gauge AI benefits and dangers?
12:17 Omzigt = OM-SICHE-TEH...something like that
@17:50
Is Rory advocating for a tribunate of the plebs??
He really does think about the Roman Empire a lot!
Alistair and Rory, you two are an intellectual delight. I crave considered debate on current issues rather than just putting up with the BBC wokes output. I guess you two were drawn together over the years for just being stimulating company together, rather than slight differences in politics at the time. Either way, we who are so far removed from the Westminster bubble (Nuneaton) really appreciate the contribution you are making. Thank you for sharing your experiences and observations.
Is Geert Wilders Jimmy Page in disguise??
Does Starmer really have to say anything on brexit. He's going to win. Surely better to play the King Juan Carlos game, and nod along quietly to brexiteers until he's actually got the massive majority? Then he can do what he wants
Atm he can just wait and let the Tory part ruin it's chances by itself.
Respect Rory, but grocely simplistic interpretation of Caesar. He was a true populares, he achieved things, unlike most populists, he was actually for or about something. The consitution had already been destroyed by his time. I'm a PhD, please contact me for more details if you want some advice.
PhDs are a dime a dozen. If it's even true (doubt it, most people I know with PhD's don't take every chance to mention it) it's irrelevant
@@afgor1088 I’m not from the US. And I didn’t mention the uni for a reason, i.e., I’m not showing off. In any case the value of a PhD is shown by the fact I can call out an inadequate interpretation of Caesar, as a classicist. That at least ;)
@@BiffaTW never said you were and I am now certain you don't have a PhD because only an idiot would think knowing that description of ceaser is inadequate would be worth anything... Did you actually think that was something people don't know? Very basic knowledge
Goodbye liar.
it would be most helpful to understand who is actually putting these people into the lime light who are the backers?
Populism is directly proportional to media coverage of populism.
Rory n Alistair do you think it would be a good idea for every politician should do an apprenticeship in the subject of their own constituency? I’m thinking they should dress live and walk bus or cycle around their constituency visiting shops pubs clubs cafes libraries schools hospitals doctors surgeries Dhss and housing depts plus leisure n social depts of local council s etc etc and ask questions n liste or lecture. Perhaps they might be better informed and then able to form solutions
There is literally ONE issue today for voters. The reason for the move to the right has mostly to do with the massive and demoralizing crime wave due to the ongoing third world invasion.
23,6 % in the vote does not create a government. for comparison: this would be in your system for Reform UK in proportional representation would be the biggest with 23,6% and would have to convince the Tories to play second fiddle, include the DUP for the numbers and convince the Lib Dems to get a majority.... Yes, proportional representation gives the guff a platform but in a functioning democracy keeps them out as long as the centre manages to deliver (left or right). The previous centre right failed to deliver after 13 years in government (sounds familiar?) and the alternative is not appealing enough (sound familiar?). In your winner take all system you end up with a new government, in our system we'll wiggle to a new consensus either through trade-offs or eventually a new election. What's best? I know what I like.
The thing he said about kids in schools knowing about politics is not true iv just come out of sixth form and not many people take an interest or know about it, and in the lower education like secondary schools when I was there only a handful of people knew about it and less took an interest in it.
I thought Rory was a soldier? Cos politics is a bloodsport and is war!
Wrt voting age.
I'd lower it to counter the population trends (ie people getting older)
How does Rory know so much!
...and Alastair too!