LEBRON FAN REACTS TO I tracked every Michael Jordan playoff game for a decade
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Incorrect lebron makes his players dependent on him and makes them actually worse players. Jordan literally makes his players better with or without him being there.
😂
So true
Yup
Your very right
Not true. That is the opposite.
@@HardCold-Alquanyou're delusional!
Jordan actually made his teammates better, that's why they didn't fall completely off the cliff when he wasn't there unlike that guy from Ohio
Fax
The eras were very different. Jordan dominated his without the 3 ball, And crowded paint. He was insane.
There was a 3 ball and Jordan made lots of them what you talking about. And no I’m not a Lebron supporter I’m a MJ guy. What games were you watching where MJ played and there wasn’t a 3 point line?
@@Idontknowhoiamanymore He didn't say they didn't have a 3pt line, but that he dominated without the 3 ball. The 3 definitely wasn't a big part of his game, he didn't constantly look for it, unlike guys today.
@@davidschmidt1793 ok yea that makes sense now
I used to be a member on Insidehoops....that tracking is legit, is actually a few years old. 51%FG in the midrange makes sense....Jordan was shooting 51%-54%FG back then. Jordan was a midrange sniper from all over the floor.
Jordan thinks just shooting a three is a bitch move. It's the easy shot, jordan wasn't about that. He wanted to show he could score over you anyway he wanted.
Have ya'll ever played one vs one? When you cant get by you launch it. When you tired, you launch it. When you the best you just score. 🤷♂️
Yea he clearly don't understand what Jordan is saying especially when he brought up Steph Curry 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️ They are two different players
This dude clearly had the modern day basketball player mindset. Everything is to shoot the stupid 3pt. Sh!t is just whack.
Exactly and he's right. If you're guarding someone like Giannis as a defender and he shoots a 3, make or miss do you think you won that possession. Most ppl would say yeah b/c you had to work less to defend a less dependable shot. MJ didn't settle, he forced teams to double and triple him from HIS spots and didn't let the defense dictate his offense. Gotta respect that.
Actually it was something like he didn't want to sit around and wait for the shot.
What a dumb thing to say. So was him settling for jump shots in the midrange also a "bitch" move. Of course he took it to the rim, but does that mean he was soft for not going to the rim every single time he touched the ball? Also, if it was so easy, why didn't he shoot it better? Why did the NBA move the 3pt line up in the first place? Wouldn't that also mean they tried to make it easier for 90's players in the era in which it was supposedly so hard to score? Does that mean they tried to make it easier for Jordan?
38% in that one segment they showed is probably higher than the league average today 😂. Jordan could shoot the 3. He just didn’t.
RIGHT lmfao! I was zoomed in on that 38 fkn percent from 3. Jordan COULD do it all.
@jtimagesartDivergentFRST mj got 6 3pointers in the 1st half of a finals game out of spite
Exactly, that's still considered good in any era.
a deeper understanding is 10 scoring titles by being aggressive. Highest PPG in history, without 3s being a big part of his game.
Highest PPG in regular season, playoff and Finals. Todays NBA has less defense and they still can't match this.
@wuando
Nobody, NOBODY, could stop him.
Clyde was an excellent defender. His athleticism is underrated - he was 6’7 - he was big fast quick had big hands and was about as explosive as 6’7 gets. Crazy athlete
I think the proof that Jordan's supporting cast got better and better each year when he's off the floor and even off the team doesn't weaken his GOAT debate, it STRENGTHENS it.
Jordan and all of the older greats didn't team hop for rings, they built up their respective franchises. LeBron makes every team he goes to all about him, and once he has scored an early ring with a stacked deck, he doesn't consider rebuilding, he just dips. That's no goat at all.
💯Mike is the reason they played as hard as they did but mfs don't wanna give him credit for making his teammates better
Excatly
MJ won WITH the best dynasty of his era. LeBron won AGAINST the best dynasty of his era. Which is more GOAT-like?
So ridiculous, the 94 bulls were fresh off years of Jordans discipline and example. Of course they still retained some of that championship chemistry. But the rings follow Jordans presence.
Man it would suck being Jordan's teammate and constantly be disregarded. Anything good they do? Because of his presence, whether he's there or not. Anything bad? Well, that just strengthens how good MJ was to compensate.
@@lightbeforethetunnel Disregarded? They won 55 games without him. Are you gonna deny Jordan's impact on a team that had the same guys for several seasons? That 89 team that was totally carried by MJ to the ECF had the same starting 5 of the 3peat team, yet they were awful at the time and became a 3 times champion. If anything, it proves Jordan couldn't win by himself, considering how amazing he was during those late 80s runs, but it also shows that the Bulls evolved as a team and Jordan's leadership was certainly a part of that.
3's make sense now, but back then a lot of basketball was played in the paint, and they had a lot of post play. I also think people took more pride in having good footwork back in the day as well. Don't need that much footwork to make 3's.
They also shot many long range jumpers. A foot inside the 3pt line is still a long range shot.
The thing which I don't know how you track is this: when Jordan went to the bench (which wasn't often) the opposing team usually took the opportunity to rest their best defender(s) while Jordan was out...which is then going to make life easier for the five Bulls who were on the floor without Mike. No, that didn't happen every single time, but it happened a lot because Jordan was an exhausting defensive assignment.
Jordan gout fouled so much driving it turned into 3's lol
"Charles Barkley would have shut that down". Doubtful.
That's when I knew this kid was a lebron fan and doesn't know what he's talking about lol
@@SpaceWoof04 His choosing Pippen over Paxson as a 3-shooter and thinking Ainge wasn't a good defender didn't do it for you already? haha
'88 35/6/6 3.2 SPG 1.6BPG
- League MVP
-DPOY
-Scoring Title
-Total pts leader
-Steals Leader
-Playoff PPG leader
-All-Star Gm MVP
-All NBA first team
-All NBA Def first team
-Only player to ever hit 200 steals/100 blocks in a season (and did it in 87 and 88, Hakeem and Pippin each did it once later on)
-The most blocks ever in a season by a back court player with 141 BLKs
-Only player ever wit B2B 50PT gms in the playoffs
-And Slam Dunk contest winner for good measure.
Jordan did all that in The 1988 season.
More accolades than LeBron has achieved in 21 seasons.
The thought back then was that you constantly needed to be aggressive. If you are aggressive you draw fouls. You draw fouls, you get easy points on a FT. Get into the bonus ASAP.
Not to mention that with hand checking and arm bar you could crowd a three point shooter. Now I’ve literally seen a few times where a player plays defense behind his back to avoid the touch foul.
Also, if the three point line didn’t even make it into the NBA until 1982 or college until 1986 these guys didn’t grow up practicing from that range in volume. If they did (before the line was there) they would have got chewed out for shooting and practicing shoots from distance.
I’ll be honest. How much talent does it REALLY take to hit a spot up three? It’s so odd to see so many young fans enamored with it. I’m more impressed with a two step drive, stop on a dime pull-up where you create space or do a 180 off the pivot and back it in over a pull up or spot up three.
Statically it’s harder to hit a spot up three hence the percentage for 3pts being lower than all other fg%
Jordans 3pter ...the basket+Foul.
Y’all gotta remember lot of dudes coming up in the 70s -90s were playing street ball whether in the cities or in the country. They weren’t working out with trainers in gyms. And there weren’t as many AAU programs like there are now. In fact back in those days you had to be special to be invited to an AAU team. Now everyone can get on one lol. Point is no one was shooting 3s playing pick up ball - it was attack the rim or shoot middie jumpers.
Jordans playoff average is 34.5ppg that's crazy
Joining a 55 win team and getting them to 72 wins and a title the next season isn't really a negative...
MJ has openly said the smaller/quick players (he mentioned AI and Mugsy) gave him more problems
Also said Dumars gave him pblms as well
Threes were a very small aspect of 80/90s ball in an era with high levels of defense. The 3s are more used and effective now because the defense level is far weaker with players being open more often than not
Mike didn't say he didn't practice the 3, he didn't want to settle for 3s because that would destroy the offensive flow. Adam Silver admitted to taking out defense to allow Curry the freedom to move
When he says the team did worse when MJ's on the bench, he ain't telling u the other starters aren't on the court either most the time.
Back then it was more disrespectful to dunk on someone rather than scoring 40 pts. Look at how proud Dikembe Mutombo was that Jordan didn't dunk on him until he gave him the finger
Jordan was Drafted to the Bulls on 84'. And I think for the 7 years before his first Chip, he averaged above 25 for every game maybe 30. I could look this up but I remember watching a lot of them as a kid. I didn't realize how good he really was until I got older and these stat shows started coming out. His shot selection is crazy bro.
Ultimately Jordan knew what the fans wanted to watch (he didn't think shooting 3s made for great competitive entertainment... obviously professional sports are entertainment). Viewership numbers during Jordan's era vs now...seems like Mike might have been on to something.
Also it was more for the role players. Even great 3 point shooters like Ray Allen and Reggie Miller shot less.
Great commentary. You're actually objective, unlike most.
Thank you for the support!!
At 1:00 the narrator said Jordan retired in '94, incorrect it was '93. He was playing baseball in '94.
That 2nd game against the Trailblazers is the stuff that Bron fans don't ever want to see. They say MJ was a ball hog and only shot the ball, but his playmaking ability could be on par with anyone.
Little known fact - MJ still holds the record for the most total assists of anyone in their first 10 finals games. Still unbroken.
He shot 3s if he needed to, but he preferred to go to the hole and make somebody stop him!!!
Jordan made that Team, he help to build the team up in the 90's.
Lebron and Kobe weren’t shooting 51% from mid range.
Difference is when Bron is on the floor he has 2 other all stars on the floor with him, so of course he should have a better plus minus, he is playing with other superstars
Stats are a tricky thing. For example, the multi-player on/off graph shows LeBron with a higher +/- per 48 minutes, but it doesn't take in consideration the average total points per game by teams. When Jordan was in the playoffs, it wasn't uncommon for combined scores to be under 200pts. Post yr2000 and especially in the 2010's and beyond, its UNCOMMON for combined scores to be under 200. It's almost rare. It's more common for combined scores to be 250+, and even hitting 280-300. In Jordan's NBA, hand-checking and other differences led to overall less scoring. In short, there is a lot more scoring in the modern game and thus more likely for there to be greater gaps in +/-.
In the season he won the mvp, and defensive player of the year, he also won the scoring title. He was just too good.
Reality is you can't measure what someone like MJ brings on the court. He was one of the hardest workers in the game and he pushed his teammates to be better. He made the practice harder. So his teammates were better even when he wasn't on the court.
Let's clear an important fact that the video doesn't address. MJ joined the Bulls while they were a basement team. The early years were MJ establishing himself as an MVP level player that turned the Bulls into a lower seed playoff team. The Bulls were already improving before they drafted Pippen and Grant, who were bench players when MJ won 50 games and a playoff series without any major contribution from them that season (neither made the all-rookie teams). The next year, the Bulls made it to the ECF with Doug Collins as coach and Pippen's contribution improved, but wasn't anything spectacular. Phil took over the next year and got the same result as before (an ECF loss to the Pistons) before they got over the hump and became a dynasty.
See, this is where people make the mistake of talking about the Bulls winning without MJ. MJ was the absolute best player and leader on the court, and also the veteran. Pippen and Grant weren't there during the dark years when MJ took over a bad team and led to them to some success. Also, the Bulls were ascending when they joined the team and their additions simply added more young talent to fill roles around MJ. The Bulls were a championship team with MJ and a playoff team without him, but people forget the fact that the Bulls were a well oiled and experienced team when MJ first retired. MJ was the championship piece, but the Bulls still were an overall talented team that first season without him. However, the 2nd season that no one wants to talk about was entirely different where they were barely over .500 after the all-star break before going 13-4 with MJ when he came back late in the season and they lost to the Magic in the 2nd round.
MJ came off the baseball field and was rusty, but the next 3 seasons with fully fit Michael Jordan was all rings.
You stated this about as perfect as it could possibly be. I've posed the identical response in discussions on the same topic many times over the years.
I started watching some of his early career games and it wasn’t pretty with those teammates. Everytime he passed the ball to his teammates they shot bricks or got blocked. Corzine was one of those guys. Imagine his assists numbers if his teammates could actually convert a good pass from MJ.
That's because Jordan was a great team captain and turned mediocre players into great players.
He lead by example, and with tough love.
Jordan just made everyone around him better.
He also boosted their confidence just by the fact that the team was doing better, it lifted their morale and made them realize they can do it.
If y'all can't see that y'all are blind.
3's have worked for The Warriors - but not many other teams. Shooting 3's just happened to have been GS's game, then other thought they had to follow, but they could not keep up.
The reason why he didn't want to practice three point shooting is very simple, the rules that protect the shooter and award free throws didn't exist back then. You rarely ever saw the refs blow the whistle on a jump shot, and people didn't care about giving you room to land, which means those shots were more difficult back then to consistently generate offense.
That's the true definition of "making your team mates better".💯
I always wished Jordan and Bird were on the same team. The synergy would have been rediculous.
ANOTHER thing..PEOPLE act like LEFLOP is a GREAT 3 POINT SHOOTER..this is actually his BEST YEAR and it’s still AVERAGE 😩
@Wuando, the reason why they might try a smaller defender is because smaller guys usually have better footspeed to stay in front of the offensive player, but the drawback is they are easier to post up and shoot over.
The Warriors didn't have enough defenders to have beaten the Bulls . Who in hell was going to guard Mike ? Major problem !
We all know Jordan is my #1
I would love to see this done about Kobe. The media lies a lot about him and there’s no one better than him after Jordan left league.
He said, if you start to look for a 3, it becomes a habit. When you're already efficient in the Post and the lane. He proved he can shoot 3s but that isn't his game.
Jordan is a "Active" player not a inactive player.
Lil bro, The fans never came to the games to see Micheal Jordan shooting 3's. We went to the games to see him fly through the Air.
Even his turn around fade away from Mid Range was beautiful and deadly. That shot made the middle open up where he was most dangerous. Smaller guys are defensively faster. Danny Ainge was an awesome defender. Clyde was also a good defender, Charles was a good defender but his foot work isn't fast enough.
Gives a great understanding/answer then ask for a deeper understanding
If you look at the floor in the paint there is not a restriction zone. Defense also played closer to the player and hand checking was morr prominate. They added thay to allow players to go into the paont, then made it larger to give more room. When MJ went vs the Pistons they was hitting every chance they got to stop him from going to the net. MJ knew that he he needed to improve himself to overcome that by adding muscle. The big mistake people also make is to look at highlights and not full games. You will see the difference in how the refs called the game, how defense was played and that the 3 point part of the game was usually specialist or role players.
Jordan shot 38% from 3 that's good he is a top 3 point shooter today
The thing about Lebron in this, is that there is no way this couldn't happen unless Lebron was a bad player. His teams have always been structured around him and his skillset, with him being primary ball handler and facilitator. When you take him out of the equation, of course the offense is going to fall apart, because you can just slot anyone into a system built around him. A team built for and around Lebron is not going to function without Lebron, and that's why his former teams always fell apart when he left. Then, with the way that he used their assets and draft picks to build his rosters, they didn't have anything to rebuild with once he was gone.
It doesn't diminish the fact that he's an all-time great, but for a lot of people it does kind of effect whether he can even be in the GOAT conversation.
MJ was correct about the 3pt shot from his position. MJ was lethal driving to the basket and hitting the mid-range, and jacking up 3's would have lowered his efficiency. People don't realize that when MJ took over 200 attempts from 3 during the season (4 times in his career), he was a 38% 3 pt shooter. He rarely took 3pt shots during his career, which is why his % is lower. He didn't need to rely on the 3pt shot and only used to open up his drive to the basket or for a jumper, which are both higher percentage shots.
Horace Grant got traded to the Magic when Jordan retired the first time. It was Scottie P and Tony K. carrying the Team.
The 94 team (without MJ) improved so much because they acquired Harper, Kukoc, and Longley. If Pippen didn't have those guys join up with the Bulls in '94, and would have still had the same team from the previous year, they never would have got near the ECSF.
Those three guys made all the difference.
And when Jordan came back for the 95-96 season, with the addition of those 3 guys and Rodman, He took them to another 3peat.
Jordan didn't have Harper, Longley, Kukoc or Rodman in his first 3peat. In fact, his bench only avgd 3/1.2/0.8 collectively for those 3 championships.
And his starting lineup, besides Scotty was -Cartwright averaging 9/4/1.5
-Paxon averaging 7/2/4
-Grant averaging 12/8/2
GOAT
My Bulls got cheated in the '94 playoffs against the Knicks with a horrible call against Pippen on Hubert Davis.
Danny Ainge was a hustler! The reason for putting him on MJ was to drain energy and provide back up support when he would drive by at the rim.
"Not effective from 3"??? Those charts showed you he was above league average, and when you apply the context that he was often asked to take the most difficult shots with the clock running down, you have to add that extra pressure as a determining factor!
"Scottie, Horace, and Dennis team"??? Dennis wouldn't have been on that team if not for Horace leaving and for MJ being there!
This video exemplifies exactly that the Bulls rose to Jordan's standards! It was because of MJ that each player became a better and more dependable player! It's was Mike who set the tone, and it was Mike who was the one who repeatedly brought them across the line!
Struggling and doing impossible is more shows than 3 point shooting. If you see his games it fires ones up (no matter which age you have)
3's were more a "speciality" back then. It's what tou you did if you were offensively limited. Being able to spot up is the only reason guys like Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, John Paxson could get a job in the NBA...on a minimal role.
This guy did all these stats but it doesn't take the most important part when Jordan was off so we're the other teams starters.
Bro...game before was not about shooting 3's all the time...he was a mid range shooting god...he went to the hole and usually find success...it was a VERY DIFFERENT game than what you are seeing right now...
That's why the discourse about the Bulls not needing MJ during his retirement between '93-'95 seasons was bull (pun intended). He just made his team a lot better because of those hellish practice sessions and their confidence and maturation to face opponents even without MJ grew because they were already battle-hardened.
Bron will always b the stat n longevity goat.💯
When Jordan was off the floor, who else was off the floor?
Also… what were the scores and times, when Jordan was off the floor. Because teams aren’t going to have many possessions if the team is up 10, and Jordan is resting for 1 -2 min stretches. It was 24 second shot clock. After 4 possessions that’s near 2 mins. Teams today miss on 6-7 possessions but it’s from chucking up 3’s. They’re not planning to attack. So that matters too.
I acknowledge greatness when I see it. What you have to understand is that Michael Jordan made all of those other players great. He did it through sheer will and brutal accountability. He would accept nothing less than their best. They don't win a championship without him. Scottie is even less clutch than LeBron... which is really saying something since LeBron shoots something like 28% in the clutch for his career.
And that Warriors team was great. But MJ, Pippen, Harper, and Rodman were 4 of the best defenders in the league. They were all comparable and could switch onto anyone.
Charles didn’t play no defense 😂😂😂 11:08
they won 55 games with scottie AND horace grant
when horace left the team CRASHED the next season and was 34-31 when mj returned
with jordan they went 13-4 the rest of the season
Joining a 55 win team and getting them to 72 wins and a championship is not exactly un-GOAT like. Imagine if Lebron joined a 55 win team and they became the best team ever and won a championship. That would count against him? Please. That would super impressive.
It’s because he isn’t really a 2 way player I grew up being told to be a 2 way player someone who’s good in both offense and defense. And, because I’m not seeing a lot of 2 way players which is why the games now are really high scoring and boring I wish for a 86 to 84 playoff game or even a regular season game
The narrator makes another mistake at 14:57 saying Phil Jackson arrived to coach the Bulls in '90. That's incorrect also because he became the head coach in '89 after being an assistant for two years since '87. If he's speaking specifically about the playoffs then he shouldn't say Phil ARRIVED in '90. Maybe he meant to say his first playoffs as coach which was '90.
Bulls bench is where, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, & Paxson are from, the Knicks bench is where Cartwright came from, & they are the starters on his 1st 3 peat team. Can’t no other player in nba history make that claim. 1994 Knicks had injuries to Starks, suspension to Harper. 1994 Cavs had 3 starters miss entire series vs Bulls, in Daughtery, Williams, & Nance.
You see his 3 pt’ers were 38% in the 1500 tracked shots graphic. Got see that.
Nobody was shooting 3s like today in the 80s and 90s. It was not a major part of offensive schemes. It is still a low percentage shot overall. Even the best 3 ballers like Reggie didn’t make it a major part of their bag.
Can you post the LINK of the original video?
The understanding of the 3pt value was not understood yet. It just came into the league in 1980. It wasn’t seen the same way
The 3pt shot takes pressure off the defense You take the ball to the hole you can make the shot but also get the other team in foul trouble
Oh Man, The Main Point One In The League That No Could Guard Jordan One on One !!!!!!
The Bull had an exceptional general manager. That's my take away. Jordan did what he did but there were multiple components to the teams success.
LeBron has made the game argumentative....
@Wuando that's Bol Bol's daddy, Manute Bol, that MJ dunked on.
It’s a team game & Jordan made his team better.
*RIP* 90's ERA
Cartwright had the ugliest free throw shot ever. 😂😂😂
Every shot
When i was little... if you had always shot 3's... meant you were most likely scared to go in paint and get hit and bumped and miss your shot, which in turn made you look terrycloth.
Everybody had a rough day with Jordan
Lebron played with multiple All Stars that's why they are able to sustain, MJ played with 1 All Star Scottie P. That's the difference..
7:21
98% of anyone who ever covered this man looked like they weren't a good defender lol
And Lord help that defender if he went into the game thinking "I'm gonna yap yap yap in his ear all game, get in his head, and rattle him"
Even if all that somehow worked in like the first half, once that Q3 or ESPECIALLY Q4 started, smh... take this 40 piece
The reason they put Danny Ainge on him was they couldn’t defend Jordan. They figured Ainge would get in his head and Drexler would reduce someone else’s scoring.
Yep. I think they figured their worst defensive player could do just as bad of a job as their best would do. Let the best player guard someone else. Jordan was going to get his no matter what but you might be able to shut somebody else down.
Mike is going to get the And One. That was his three.
Why he got smaller defenders?
Mj got smaller defenders on him due to better chance of keeping him out of the lane and potential and 1s.
You see a stat of 38.3% and say "he was not effective at that three point"??? wtf???
Back when Jordan played (this doesn’t include everyone there was plenty of amazing 3 ball shooters back then) but the 3 ball was more for guys around stars. I mean it was a big guys game anyway - Jordan was a driver and post up man - yeah as you said he was putting pressure on the defence that way - standing away from the basket shooting 3’s isn’t really putting pressure on the D. It’s just not what was done
I’m going to say it again at risk of getting roasted: Lebron is a great player, but he isn’t the GOAT. No one stops Jordan. Lebron had ONE SERIES against the Warriors that was Jordan-like. Impressive for sure! But all six chips Mike won he showed that killer instinct on the regular. Loved your breakdown 👍🏻
Why put a smaller player shows that you really do not understand defense. Footwork, speed, quick hands on the smaller player. That slows MJ down, at least that was the thought process.
I wasn't going to comment on your video but the reason why MJ didn't focus on 3 pointers... the 3s players take today alot of them are bad shots and the 90s are about high percentage shots and even he said it shooting 3s make you fall in love with that shot and other parts of your game are going to suffer which is why he didn't like the shot
Why take 3s when you're unstoppable. Why take 3s when you want to humiliate your opponent. Jordan never looked for the easy way out. It was an IM COMING FOR YOU, TRY, AND STOP ME mentality. No challenge/battle to shoot 3s
The problem with using team stats to justify players worth is that Shaqs team system completely revolved around him...inside center feed the big dog.
Jordan's team played triangle offense and could survive without him. Jordan could play off ball, set picks and play defense.
LeBron is notorious for sucking the air out of the ball. I think some of the research doesn't account for eye test.
Jordan shot all the time but played better as part of the team, which ultimately helped his team grow long term.
Lakers this year can't win, because there's no symmetric growth
Scottie Pippen was never considered anything but soft
They won 55 games without him when he retired. And so people are saying he was playing with the stack team before he left will let me help you out. I can close this conversation in one statement. Michael Jordan only had one All Star his whole career. So how the hell is that stacked?