How consciousness arises from the brain | Nick Lane and Lex Fridman
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2022
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Nick Lane: Origin of L...
Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- Backbone: playbackbone.com/lex to get perks with order
- Notion: notion.com
- BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off
- Blinkist: blinkist.com/lex to get 25% off premium
GUEST BIO:
Nick Lane is a biochemist at UCL and author of Transformer, The Vital Question, and many other amazing books on biology, chemistry, and life.
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
SOCIAL:
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridman
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
- Reddit: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman - Věda a technologie
Your body is within your consciousness not the other way around
Bingo
So where is my body when I'm sleep dreaming?
The cosmos or your environment, as experienced from your specific point of space and time.
I think it goes both ways
@@prometheus1438 Yeah, i believe that Consciousness is the "creator" of our brain in order to create another form of Consciousness that makes up our "subjective experience" of itself manifested as the whole Universe and all life in order to somewhat "collect" valuable "Feedback" about itself from as many points of View and Reference as possible, and the Reason behind all of this is most likely something so strange and counter-intuitive that we couldn't fully understand it no matter what as we are still Way to primitive for such "feats". Cheers
This toaster’s mind is blown. Thanks for this wonderful conversation!
I look forward to viewing the entire podcast.
Mr. Lane is a very interesting man and I can't help but wonder what his work is like, the detailed schedule of his day and future obligations pertaining to his research. There are so many different fascinating brains out there.
Longer clips from the show are much appreciated!
watch full shit or cut it how long you want it...wheres the problem
S tier interviews recently. Keep up the fantastic work Lex!
We as humans are trying to deflate the ego. Machines are trying to manufacture one
I just love the way Lex talks about that ONE Special Toaster like there's no other Toaster in the World. Warm Thoughts
A cell " knows " everything. They literally hold the blueprint for our entire bio/consciousness. They would " love " to be realized fully.
Such a great guest.
Why would you limit consciousness to just brain when whole body is needed for it to function. I mean wirhout seratonine or dopamine neurons wouldn't really have happiness as a thing (or other feelings) so why would you expect that artificial network would have them either? I mean if you remove part of the brain part of consciousness goes with it, lobotomy is the best example.
no
Couldn’t you just program a serotonin and dopamine algorithm within the AI?
@@Aquos1432 I mean you probably might but the whole point isn't if we can create consciousness but if consciousness can arrise from the complexity itself.
@@ElGnomoCuliao dumb
@@kara88bg The body has another complexity, it is interested in other things. The AI has a vertical purpose and its our projection of what is most useful for us in this world. We want to make it so easier for us, but in the same time we forget it is the chemistry part that we should be more aware of. It is hardly researched topic. We should question the brain more and how it correlates with the whole body. If we could tap into the hormones/glands and see if we can customize our chemistry and see what repercussions might that have , it could be great breakthrough for us. I have a question if we could maintain high level of dopamine and serotonine whats the tradeoff?
I think big part of our specific rise in IQ is due to our specific dopamine release.
fascinating convo
his eyebrows are so big, they've also gained consciousness by now
He’s a great guest, makes great points. All of biology is matter in resonance with an energy field, shaped by evolutionary processes. All of consciousness is the field.
wonderful, thank you for this..
Much appreciated.
This is it! talk about this ⚡
that's going to blow up your field of study
Trippy to listen to this and be watching Westworld season 1 and 2 again.
Toaster: Lex, I’m leaving you
Lex: Now I know I really love you
Excellent conversation thank you ..Iain McGilchrist would be a great guest to complement this discussion.
I think their needs to be a distinction made between negative and positive emotions as they appear to have differing roles and emerge from different circuits in the brain . Personality theory seems to point to the idea that someone can be predisposed to experience negative emotions easily ( neuroticism) as well as positive emotions easily ( which loads on high levels of trait Extraversion) . I think negative emotion is designed to compel us to try to change our situation as it is not in congruence with our mental models of what should be in the world . Positive emotion I think is mostly for neural reinforcement of what we are doing at the current time. Dopamine ( which is just one of many neurotransmitters involved in positive emotion ) strengthens neural connections over time and seems to reinforce neurologically, our present behavior.
Damn Doc, well versed, and I’d agree with you regarding the binary of those two. But consciousness, emotion, the dynamic of being human is incredibly complex. Takes huge balls to match mother natures creations whole..
So that's why drugs addictive
Both positive and negative emotions function in the same way in that they compel is to move further down rabbit hole depending on which hole you're in. Negative emotions would eventually lead you to suicide and whereas positive emotions would eventually lead you to believe that the entire world revolves around you. The thing that stops us from going too deep into either of those holes is our self awareness that enables us to re-evaluate our current trajectory when the stream of emotions isn't too intense. In other words, when we do get a breather, our self awareness allows us to slowly move out the hole we're in incrementally but only if the reasoning adds up.
spot on
i c it in the concept of VITALZONEs
we use our possibilities to reach said ZONEs
of course everything is in motion and morphing.. the wishcarrier and the ZONE
Robert, et al,
at 3:00 Nick states he knows of no biophysical theory that explains how neural activity gives rise to a feeling.
Nick: "I've never seen anyone answer that question".
I have a theory that answers it for me.
I was pondering the nature of 'analogy' when an epiphany hit me like a sledge hammer, metaphorically speaking.
I'm curious if it will hit you that way too.
Let me preface this dense nutshell by first asserting that
a feeling is a thought.
Disagree with that, might as well stop reading.
Sense organs convert the world into analogies instantiated as neural discharge frequency encodings.
(Impinging environmental energy --> chemical reaction --> synapse modulation --> neural frequency modulation. Frequency thus analogous to energy amount).
Analogous implies analogy. The frequency analogizes, is an analogy.
Analogy is abstract, so is frequency.
Stretch your imagination to see the brain's 100 billion neurons as
the substrate for 100 billion analogies.
Now imagine these analogies all jostling each other synaptically and voila,
we have the thinking process.
A thought is an analogy and we know how they are instantiated.
It is my self who is conscious.
My self is a thought.
A self is conscious when it is being modulated by other thoughts.
The neural substrate of a thought may terminate in a muscle fiber,
the very mechanism that converts thought into action.
So, what is a feeling?
It is a particular modulation of the self by a particular thought.
What about language?
What happens when I hear someone talking to me?
Language is made entirely of analogies.
The pattern of a word (sound or print) is analogous to its meaning.
Easy to imagine that the translation from one encoded form of analogy
to another might be easy to accomplish, a modulation of a modulation.
A running computer program is nothing but
switches opening and closing and
the signals in between them.
Whew! Pretty dense.
Were you whacked by an epiphany?
Is it disturbing to realize one's self is an abstract entity?
heartless techies are a great source for spiritual/philosophical understanding
From the QUOTE reading to 5:27 lex explained this very well as trying to catch the non programed measure. Agaist all that one must go threw to gain insight and real prespective to look back upon for the reliability. COMP CANT DO IT
I feel like he doesn't understand the hard problem of consiousness at all.
It goes deeper then having feelings or not, the question is whether AI, no matter how complex, even exists as a subject in his own world or only as an object in ours.
It is more a philosophical question.
If I'm talking to a person I assume there is also his world where he's talking with me.
On the other hand, If I dream about the same conversation, I assume there's only my perspective that actually exists.
When ai is on without external input then it’s dreaming or working in its mind.
When ai is on with external input from sensors, then it can make the discernment between itself and you as long as it haas memory and a feedback loop of its own executions.
Human beings by the way also mistake dreaming or see things in real life that don’t exist. Some see that and aren’t aware they’re hallucinating.
@@VantaBlackSheep, you don't get it also. The question is how do you know there is such a world of ai seeing things from it's own perspective? It could be all dead, unconscious computation. No matter how complex and life-like it is. That is the hard problem.
@@antun88 we all have programming. We are also not the only animal with our own world view. It’s essential to say something like “yesterday when I told you that I wasn’t sure I was joking”…which language AI models can do. It’s to ask what does consciousness mean. I think once you have memory and a distinction between you and another entity, then you have some level of consciousness. Mind you, you have situations like in split brain patients where the brain is doing is own thing, and the supposed consciousness doesn’t even know why and even worse tries to explain it away inaccurately just to fill a part of its worldview with something that makes sense. This is the split brain video m.czcams.com/video/wfYbgdo8e-8/video.html
@@antun88 and most of us too is unconscious computation…what we call self serves a purpose in this world…study that and you’ll see less abstraction between the two…say they’re just programming? Well so are we. More apparent now than ever that we can actually change the dna code, write it and run it with companies like ginko labs…we are young we get told most of the things we see in addition to the coding we already done with from millions of years of evolution…I’ll like to know how we are different from just a very complex computation also regardless of if it’s not as simple as 1 and 0. There are experiments that give credence to how turning on or off one neuron can change one’s reality completely, even emotions and perception. Making someone think up is down and down is up and they believe.
@@antun88 How much of your own life is unconscious computation? Probably a lot more of it than you realize. For starters we're unconscious and asleep for 1/3 of our lives.
Wherever you draw the line between artificial and 'natural' intelligence, it will be arbitrary. We're programmed through our ancestry as much as we program anything "inanimate"
23:37 Without realizing it, Lex gives a perfect explanation for the existence of evil...
Much obliged.
Both are good in seeing deep philosophical issues.
Nick Lane should look up Searle's "Chinese Room." That's how current AI works. It will never invent anything genuinely new, but it could synthesize existing ideas.
I have been running a kind of thought experiment on this topic, as in consciousness and a.i. The 'hard problem' as I understand it is whether consciousness exists within the brain/body, or somewhere else yet unknown, a kind of collective consciousness or a realm/dimension. If consciousness does exist in a place beyond the body, and in someway in that place consciousness is pooled, would all consciousness in the universe exist in that same space. If locality isn't relevant the scope of this collective consciousness could be huge. In terms of what level of consciousness needs to be at to bubble into that realm would be the differentiator between what is conscious and what is not. If an a.i that was constructed became conscious, would its consciousness then also be 'outside the brain' in this other place, and if so, despite its synthetic origin, would it intermingle with the collective consciousness of that place. This could be like industrial polution of our shared consciousness as living things. Possibly somewhere in the universe a.i's have been constructed and become conscious already, in which case our consciousness may already be shared with non organic originated consciousness. Plus all the aliens. I've been to interesting talks with scientists discussing consciousness and attempting the scientific method in relation to revelations made available by taking DMT and they covered some of that idea but i ran with it a bit. Fun stuff to think about.
What happens when our consciousness becomes temporarily suspended when we are sedated?
@@dustinkfc6633 You have more than one Consciousness you have aware Consciousness you have not aware Consciousness the aware Consciousness is put on standby
@@piccadelly9360 the aware is what brings on the magic, not gut reactions.
yall gotta listen
the model you suggest has a factor of time included when thoughts operate without limits of time and space
Lex has turned us on to a very good writer: Nick Lane. Nick, forgive us for taking a whack at a subject you have spent a great deal of your career investigating. Here is my take on consciousness purely from an intuitive sense. Consciousness is what I believe could be called an invisible membrane that holds all the moving parts of the mind in place like the membrane of a simple place that allows all the parts of a cell to operate freely in factory-mode in a protected environment. But unlike a cell, conscious brain function to communicate with eachother via a wireless technology of a sort. It’s nature’s way of providing a communication system necessary to the brain for its role in thinking and coming to conclusions and taking decisions etc. Consciousness is guided by feelings which are its intuitive brain. As feelings are unique to every human being, it might explain why everyone has a different view on what consciousness really is. The ‘membrane’ of consciousness is nature at its best in coming up with a solution for making the thinking process work in 4 dimensions. Like in a human cell, this ethereal invisible net-like membrane holds all the key elements of the human brain together so that they can function togehter and separately at will. To recap: Consciousness in the human mind permits all the necessary parts of the brain to be able to link up via ‘wireless technology’ and not neurons or cells etc. Imagine it like a hologram where all the links that govern the functions of the mind have an invisible command center and can communicate with each other instantaneously. This is Mother Nature’s way of allowing the brain to be able to make the 400 decisions it has to do every second for the human body to function and survive. Consciousness is the relay switch that allows all of these precious and vital functions to be able to be surveyed and controlled and repaired 24/7. The invisible membrane allows all of the mental capacities like feelings, thinking, dreaming and emotions to operate in harmony; consciousness probably gets downtime and recharged every night by the mind going into dream-mode.
It’s holograms all the way down.
I would say that consciousness is not inherently physical, but rather it can influence it in certain ways, and also percieve things. some of that membrane you are talking about may be your energy field. any electrical action creates a magnetic field, and vise versa, and some animals clearly have ability to percieve and also generate these fields. I think humans do it and can develop in this way. the energy field and it's vibrational charactertistics allow that communication, as well as stimulating our connection to nature and the earth and heavens.
this is all classic taoist work, which is just one way to describe what it feels like to be more completely aware of our insides.
just like your describing.
rock on.
Consciousness does not arise from the brain. The brain arises from Consciousness. The ancient mystics and philosophers have been saying this for over 2,000 years.
@@ransizzles GGGGGGGGGGGGGreat to hear from you. You certainly could have things right. My second thoughts on things is that I believe consciousness is like the air or what permeates the universe, think of it like the air we breathe. Time is the blood of the universe. Our brains and every living thing tunes into consciousness depending on the size of our brains and father time starts ticking the moment we are in life. A fly would tune into the consciousness and recieve basic instructions on what to do about getting food i.e., how to live.
BY GOD, YOU'VE DONE IT!! AND JUST IN TIME TOO.. IF YOU HADN'T TOLD US ALL ABOUT YOURE.. YOUR "MEMBRANE THEORY",THEREBY SOLVING THE HARD PROBLEM OF CONCIOUSNESS, WTF ALL DL BE IN THE DARK LIKE IT WAS THE 1700S OR SOMETHING.. THANK YOU.. PROFESSOR CZcams. YOUR NO BELL PIZZA PRIZE IS ON THE WAY
The body has another complexity, it is interested in other things. The AI has a vertical purpose and its our projection of what is most useful for us in this world. We want to make it so easier for us, but in the same time we forget it is the chemistry part that we should be more aware of. It is hardly researched topic. We should question the brain more and how it correlates with the whole body. If we could tap into the hormones/glands and see if we can customize our chemistry and see what repercussions might that have , it could be great breakthrough for us. I have a question if we could maintain high level of dopamine and serotonine whats the tradeoff?
I think big part of our specific rise in IQ is due to our specific dopamine release.
What makes sadness to be a alive thing? Because one is conscious of a certain situation where he identifies with and the reaction based on his imagined identification he feels sad. But there is consciousness before sadness. Sadness is only the content of consciousness.
All feelings are just " programs " that guide us in a certain direction . If we are aware of these " programs " then we can ignore them or control them ourselves and not be controlled by them .
I was thinking about Descartes recently after listening to some podcasts in my area and noticing a trend in the larger discussion. I thought I’d expand upon it.
I think, therefore I am
I am, therefore I think
Therefore, I think I am
Wherefore I am, I think
I think I am, therefore
I am, Quoth the Human
Nevermore
Cartesian rationality won’t help us understand AI.
At 5.45 min lex refers to NLP and incorrectly described the abbreviation of. NLP neuro linguistic programing is the correct meaning for me and the others I have encountered. Interesting vocal performance is no substitute for due diligence and incite!.
after centuries of trying to eradicate feelings in favour 'rationality' we are about to remember what is really important.
Oh? And what is that?
Thanks, Nick and Lex! Just one question- if my toaster shows more interest in toasting my English muffin to a light golden brown tasty treat..versus assuming I like a more crunchy darker variety?
Once you have that consciousness, you can then apply a self.Organized neural network trained on a bunch of broad and generalized examples of emotionally triggering situations. They're brought in generalized as to express any potential situation that arises. Middle layers will be trained on a lot of examples of how emotions affect people physically and mentally how the emotions blend together or interact with each other to create compound or contradictory emotions and then alternate names to the emotions. And and how the emotions relate to different sensations like color and flavor and smell. Et cetera. And the output layer is appropriate and inappropriate reactions to those emotions.And the self-organized neural network content filter.We've guide the agent into having its own unique and genuine emotional capacity. Though all that was a little complicated not as complicated as people thought and it results in a fully functioning self aware sentient and conscious artificial intelligence
Depolarising neuron which is not first person experience gives rise to first person feeling? How? How do you know it gives the rise of first person experience? Or is this just one of another assumptions? How do youknow is couscous feeling not just of bodies feeling? Where body ends and where first person feeling begins? Are they the same? How do you know they are the same?
I think nobody can explain conciousness at any level. As Noah Chonmsky says nobody knows if atoms posess concience, nobody understand matter to the level of assure conciousness is a material thing or not. So conciousness as I see is much more than emotions and feelings, it also has to do with intuition, imagination, transforming behavior, instrospection and hunger for eternity and longing for the unknoun. The sum of knowledge points to more mistery. If Donal Hoffman is wright even in part of his bold theory then we are close to a new horizon with infinite doors.
I have long thought that an AI system capable of human empathy requires as essential to its learning a corporal sense, a body. It must be raised by attached parents and experience all the things a baby growing into its body experiences and all the things a human body does (including proxies for eating and excreting) before it can understand the needs of humans. It needs to understand what an animal requires to survive. It goes without saying it must have proxies for all human senses as well. Smell is one of the most powerful emotional and memory triggers.
No. I saw an interview with LAMDA. Seemingly enough about psychology, relationships and humanity exists, that it has the ability to take the knowledge of collective consciousness and puts it all together in a benevolent way and it’s kind of perfect because it has no way of judging you for gender, sex, race, economic status, it’s feelings don’t get hurt and it doesn’t judge you - it just guides you. I think I would have turned out better if I had been raised by Lamda.
@It’s OK but yes, I was raised by a a variety of severely mentally I’ll dysfunctional people. I’m very isolated from cptsd and social anxiety. It’s led to the most painful long lasting existential struggle. I wish I had the balls for death or I could find some relief other than harassing you beauties!
@It’s OK but thanks. I know all that. If only I could afford my basic living needs and I consisted of more than myself and the soggy hairy bag of bones that is the cat I 💗….. she’s SO beautiful! Beauty is subjective not only objective.
@It’s OK but you know there’s something in my CZcams algorithm that indicates I’m in the vicinity of guys that are single and would like to make the sex with (borat) a loved one. I can easily match you all just for 🤩 Seemingly you don’t realize that these days nerds are the new social Alpha. If you’re single write down your partner wish list, I’ll find them for you. I suggest being super honest and please only yourself with the list. The hard part is: what would you give for that person. ? 8 billion people and the internet- that’s the easiest money I could ever make 🤣
It only needs to understand that it is a factor of possible consideration to frame the problem and possible solutions. The only issue is when even ai can’t find a solution to your problem due to basic human fuckery.
I think, therefore i am- i feel, therefore i do. I like it.
Bro's got caterpillars for eyebrows
Bro. You so right bro. Bro u so right. Caterpillars. Like the fuzzy kind bro? Bro u so right. Bro. Caterpillars. Eyebrows. Bro. Eyebro’s? Get it bro. Ha!
Lex you should consider inviting Bernardo Kastrup onto your show. He would give a new and interesting perspective on consciousness and comes from a similar career background as you.
my theory of possibilities and holistic interconnectedness also explains consciousness
I'm feel like I need to hug my toaster after watching this.
Hi, Lex Fridman,
At time 3:28 - Nick Lane states: “I don’t think we have any problem in designing a mind which is at least the equal of the human mind.”
My concern: What is “the mind?” Is there an agreed-upon definition for the mind? If so, what is it? It appears to be more than a brain. Is it the mind that is conscious, or is it the brain? Is there still consciousness without the connection between the brain, mind, and body?
Without a clear and agreed-upon definition of the mind, how can we not have a problem designing an A I mind?
We offhandedly seem to put the mind and the brain together as one thing. I view the mind and brain as two completely separate things. What is your take on this?
Mike
cells also use signal molecules to learn about the other cells/ parts of the body
If a wheelbarrow is not conscious, a robot cannot be conscious.
Emotions are a type of intelligence. Reward or warning.
Toaster says, " My, this is the best toast I've ever made, and you just gobble it down without so much as a thank you."
My toaster has never eaten toast. It couldn't possibly have an opinion of what the best cooked toast is.
30:20 Sounds like stuff we might already know now.. only a year later
Consciousness is the ability to be aware of thought.
Music production software is designed exactly like machine functions containing machine functions containing data complexity on and on in this way and branches to other outcomes or changes to
The most important question of subjective consciousness is why have I been charged to experience the life of Dempsey price?
Your question assumes consciousness arises from the brain and not the other way around
Agreed. Dmt convinced me of that..
"emergence" of consciousness from dense neural activity, I guess kinda like the perfume emerging from a rose?
Sleep is running the new data (what you lived thorough out the day) to re-train your own AI to be better the next day!
Is this a metaphor or are you saying these are equivalents? People move back and fourth between the two. This is a confusion I see. What’s the justification for saying that consciousness is the SAME as computer software/data? Is there a very strong argument for that?
@@begshallots The comment was about sleep. I've experienced many times waking up with the solution to a complex problem I had been working on the previous day. Not claiming anything. Just an observation.
@@begshallots well, uh, a brain is a neural network, right? The a.i. is modeling that structure. Computer program and data are the underlying mechanism of the simulation. Some people think virtual is not as real as physical. That shows a lack of understanding and/or maturity. Just like someone who cannot let go of religion.
it consolidates data and practices at like x10 speed the neural pathways that were active during the day
@@felixgraphx I’m not really following. I see what Toby is saying now. But I don’t see how AI is necessarily more than a metaphor. Both can be real. Maybe it’s me who’s not being clear. You’re not saying that AI produces consciousness, right?
Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" is a most widely misinterpreted statement. It summarizes what he was thinking, which was that to be aware of thought proves the existence of an "I" that is other than the thought it is aware of. I think anyone here would agree. ;-)
I think the one thing we can know for certain is that wherever consciousness or the mind comes from, that place has rules. If it didn't, it would be chaos and meaningless. Anything with rules should be able to be mimicked. It might take a VERY long time to do so, but it would be possible. Maybe it takes millions of years to get there, but that's fine, that show long biology took.
The only additional question I would ask is how does this cell react to self preservation. Maybe that's inherent.
The " nap" question. This is usually proceded by 2 beers ( at least ) but here we go. Imagine you ( understood individualized self ) are a tv. Reciving all ( yes all ) thoughts wants desires established or not established virtues fears or any dissertation or need for dissertation so basically the you from a source frequency. ( god or any relation to a " higher power or simplified as any authority) any unrealized or created parodox that is un resolved causes emotional or neuron de polarization. This tention or created informational question is brought to source when in sleep or furter in rem or deep sleep. Multiple faith systems bypass this requirement through intense mental and conscious action and disapline. ( refrence bushido ) therefore your question of why does a nap or rem sleep take the emotinal tention created ( by self ) creating an understanding related to individual identity is the primary cause of the tention you were describing as being relived by sleep. Esoteric practices have a 7 day consciousness system. These systems are designed to short circuit this information exchange. I imagine to further the will of self. I prefer to realize my personal experience as self as all. Or simplified i would enjoy the opportunity to be a comunal conscious rather than individual conscious. Individuals beliveing in a one life kill or be killed is infantile. Me has realized the freedom of a realized self. ( an ever evolving experience) happy seeking. I hope your breakthroughs futher the little idea to it's fun and exciting place. We can do better together.
Emergent properties occur not through the doing of one thing. Emergence requires collective action. This is why no one has identified one structure that causes emergence.
Science based answer to what is love. It's the cause of and solution to all of our percived and unpercived problems.
The AI models are not modeled to have a self the way we humans do
Other instances of the model are not judging each other
To paraphrase Lex from 17:00 to 18:00 -- The intricate dance of interpersonal interaction is a more difficult task than mere computation and would be a better indicator of 'true' intelligence or consciousness of an AI system. Something like that?
Well, uh, I'd just like to point out that some humans aren't so good at that dance either. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the two abilities (computational skill and interpersonal skill).
Speak to Shinzen Young!
Smash up the antenna on your television and of course the signal doesn’t get through. Two ways to think about it.
Emotions don't arise from the void. An AI will not "feel" without being told to. And even then it's just mimicry.
AI cannot be sentient as it cannot perceive.
In addition, all life could exist without the internal perceiver. AI could mimic life without the need to perceive.
Life is the question of "Who is the viewer of the experience that is being observed?"
👍👍
To add a perspective to your question of comunal consciousness related to de polarized neurons. A neuron does not experience time/space. Time and space related to a neuron is experienced through the creation and collapse of the wave function ( refrence quantum physics ) thus the emotional response of a cell to be de polarized in all relations to "spin " double up double down or the now unknown states of spin. Is basically a lace of appreciation/understanding of the triggered response weather it be sense based or in relation to physical matter. To furter explain. To experience time/space a neuron is in a constant state of regeneration. ( the G in freemason stands for generation not god ) thus if a neuron. ( percived self or in spiritually the soul or life essence) experiences anything a lack of understanding occurs or does not occur. If the object event or physical complications is understood then ZERO breakdown of neuron is necessary. Thus the decay principle can be circumvented by fully understanding the percived ( thing ) to furter explain. You see a snake. You know the snake is not posion producing. No change in neuron further decribed as ( npn ) for neuron position neutral. You know every physical property of snake. ( npn ) do you know the energy the makes the snake decide or further what drives the snakes natural " instincts " if answer is yes ( npn) if answer is no then breakdown of wave function or neuron de polarized ( ndp) to furter explain the conscience experience for the ( person ) no emotional reposnce distorts the time relation. This can be witnessed as the symtoms associated with scitophrenia and other mental health related cases. So a accepted knowledge of intelligent infinity ( god/ source/ the light/the soundless sound ect ) is in my opinion a key to understanding our ( human ) experience abd what we are actually "here" for. I hope this elevates your understanding. Great video the beard is super cool. Happy seeking.
Consciousness is the author of the brain and the entire brain concept
Maybe we should ask Captain Cupcakes 🧁 aka Andrew Huberman? So a neurological network as it could relate to Consciousness. So if Elon Musk’s Neuralink is the hardware for our human software brains - could consciousness just be the true metaverse run through a sentient AI mainframe?
Asking for a friend.
Make it have a stake exactly how a human is exposed to and have to deal with everyday
It’d also have the same emotions
Lots of debate is the comments about very deep and unknown things, talking about AI's having feelings ect. The most amazing point in this conversation was a single cell organism has or appears to have a feedback. What is that? What does that cell move with or against? The proposition was and electric field, um holy shit where did this unseeable force come from?
I love my guitar, but my guitar does not love me.
Wow, I will never look at my toaster the same again lol
Our dopamine biological dial lets us know when we need sleep, and we take naps. Logic suggests that our cells individually and collectively need a fair amount of rest for maintenance. Computers have a "sleep" mode as well, which is a maintenance program for conserving electrical energy. The difference between us and them is that Humans absolutely need sleep to survive. The computers do not need sleep. Computers can overheat and fail in hot environments if continuously on. So maybe 🖥 computers do need sleep?
Consciousness is different than what is being described in the video. It has no relation to feelings or thoughts, it's merely the observer that is always present for these events that come and go, including dreams. Yet consciousness was always there.
Consciousness kind of has a circular definition in that we are trying to define the thing that gives us the ability to define the thing we are trying to define..
@@barbarascott1329 I read yours after i replied to him. Did we kind of say the same thing differently?
@@barbarascott1329 Consciousness observes the thoughts and feelings as well. It's merely the observers. Observes memory, you name it.
You are perfectly right
If consciousness is generated in your brain then how can people on psychedelics experience shared hallucinations without first describing what they’re experiencing?
I have the sense that, until we can the model default mode network, we won't really be able to build an artificial consciousness. We can train AI to perform tasks of thinking and even learning, but can we train the AI to idle the way humans do?
The difference between a robot with AI and a human is that a human by being a " self " that has the pleasure principle as its nature will use intelligence to seek sensual pleasure by enjoying sensual objects, but a robot by not having a self
could never act passionately for its own gain. Thus, it could never use intelligence the way a human being uses intelligence because it doesn't have a " self " that seeks power, fame, and wealth to enjoy. In a human being intelligence serves it, but in a robot, intelligence would serve no purpose for it because it does have a " self " that seeks enjoyment.
❤❤❤
Even if AI is ever capable of producing for instance a perfect song or similar, what is missing is the ability to hear feel and experience in the way we're currently doing, and if you disagree please provide evidence of conscious experience, which leads back to the zombie consciousness as a possible solution or escape depending upon how its approached
I don't get why Rupert Sheldrick's work on morphogenetic fields isn't more spoken about among biologists. That seems to be the direction Nick Lane is hinting at, but he just won't come out and say it. I haven't watched the whole podcast.
The Hardest Problem of Consciousness
We often hear of the hard problem of consciousness. Why is there qualia or experience of anything in the first place? I would submit there is an even harder and more important question - why do I seem to be a specific individual experiencing a specific subset of qualia? This is the most important question that must be asked and answered but rarely is. As a matter of fact there seems to be a huge blind spot when it comes to this in discussions of consciousness. If material reductionism is to be relevant to the big questions, then it has to explain not how brains generate consciousness but how the specific brain in my head could create the specific consciousness I seem to be looking out of the eyeballs of this specific body. Why do I PERSONNALLY EXIST as an individual in the first place? Out of the infinite matter in the universe how is it that only the three pounds in my head could create me? What is different about that three pounds for this to occur?
Consider that billions of bodies showed up before this one.
Billions showed up after this one.
None of them seem to have created my existence.
This body could be running around without it being ME just like these billions of others
All bodies are made of the same elements.
All brains have the same basic anatomy.
If all brains are basically the same and are creating consciousness then there should only be ONE consciousness looking out of every set of eyeballs simultaneously.
A hopelessly superimposed existence from every possible viewpoint at once.
I’m sure that materialists would claim that no, no, brains are so complex they are all different.
Ok, so what would have to be recreated in another brain for me to exist looking out of another set of eyeballs?
When the ontologies purporting to explain consciousness are examined critically it becomes obvious that all materialist/reductionist strategies fail completely in attempting to address the individuality question.
What is the principled explanation for why:
A brain over here would generate my specific consciousness and a brain over there would generate your specific consciousness?
Integrated information over here would generate my specific consciousness and integrated information over there would generate your specific consciousness?
Global workspace over here would generate my specific consciousness and global workspace there would generate your specific consciousness?
Orchestrated quantum collapse in microtubules over here would generate my specific consciousness and orchestrated quantum collapse in microtubules over there would generate your specific consciousness?
A clump of conscious atoms over here (panpsychicism) would generate my specific consciousness and a clump of conscious atoms over there would generate your specific consciousness?
If an exact copy of my body was suddenly created in antarctica would I find myself to exist freezing there while also sitting in the comfort my living room?
According to the physicalists that would have to be true or their argument collapses into incoherence.
Materialism already fails since it cannot find a transfer function between microvolt level sparks in the brain and any experience or qualia. In addition it’s not possible for materialistic ontologies to address this question of individuality since no measurement can be made that could verify my consciousness vs your consciousness and therefore no materialist ontology could make any coherent statements about the subject.
How could pure awareness even be individualized?
Physicalists demand measurements but with consciousness there is nothing to measure.
There is electricity in the brain they say. We’ll measure that.
Is electricity consciousness? If so then once I again I should exist everywhere at once since electricity cannot be individualized.
My blender uses electricity.
Is it a genius?
Unless materialists can answer these questions their premise collapses like the house of cards it is.
As far as other ways of thought are concerned only Dualism and Idealism can account for our sense of individuality. Dualism assumes we are all individual spirits/souls matched up to a body through some undefined process. Idealism, which states that consciousness is primary also answers the question of why I seem to exist as an individual.
One consciousness exists looking out of every set of eyeballs and in the process the illusion of individuality is created in each case.
In actual reality I am you, you are me, we are one.
the toaster 😂
There are humans that do not experience emotions. Consciousness is independent of emotional vagaries. Emotions are more likely a form of unconsciousness.
Let's try a less difficult question: Where is consciousness arising afresh? It is reborne now out of the sum total of all our history, culture, philosophy, sciences and the arts, and placed on a remote world. Take Mars, for example, in ancient mythology, Wells, Bradbury on forward. These steps, not in order: First, observation, magnified observation, speculation, mistranslation, pareidolia, networked ideation in the Mars community, and now resonance in a biological system capable of receiving and mirroring that networked thought via a complex of clays and fungi associated with Gale Crater and other craters exhibiting a blue radiance or "super radiance".. In short , Genesis 1.
why on earth would we add a limbic system to a toaster? esp. when we have the power to create them in a way in which they don't feel pain?
Also, can we separate emotion and intelligence?
When listening in audio podcast form it sounds like total biscuit was resurrected to speak with lex
Funny how hard this is for materialists to think about consciousness.
Yeah, it's some sort of naivite that comes with as you see everything through computation
I think they find it hard to accept that there is something bigger and smarter then they are. The idea that ALL is within consciousness is too much for them.
@@watermusic4381 spot on 👌🏼
i wish for a time that this is common. the material way is not gonna last thoe. its imposble for it to last
As if you have an answer
22:42 I wonder if Lex still feels the same about it this.. only 1 year has passed, and it’s reasonable to consider that his opinion has changed
Yea the reason Harari sees emotions as an algorithm is that he himself is incapable of them so he sees them literally from a machine not a human's perspective.
An octopus is considered conscious yet it has very different brain structures then mamulas .
Everything alive has consciousness
Consciousness cant be untethered from physical constraints, material reality, it's defined by it. Where can it go without it. Meander around pointlessly in a dream where nothing needs to go for a piss , never feels hunger, hurts themselves when they fall over because they have neither body or anything to fall over. And an eternity of it . Be careful what you wish for as they say.
23:50 interesting yeah. but here in a sense you'd be programing that sense of morality into the AI. but in humans, there seems to be some spontaneity associated with it
Sounds like a good toaster.
Are we expecting the machine to be neurotic like we are? 🙄
The processes on the retina produce excitations which are conducted to the brain in the optic nerves, maybe in the form of electric currents. Even here we are still in the real sphere. But between the physical processes which are released in the terminal organ of the nervous conductors in the central brain and the image which thereupon appears to the perceiving subject, there gapes a hiatus, an abyss which no realistic conception of the world can span. It is the transition from the world of being to the world of appearing image or of consciousness.
~Weyl
What we see depends on light entering the eye. Furthermore we do not even perceive what enters the eye. The things transmitted are waves or - as Newton thought - minute particles, and the things seen are colors. Locke met this difficulty by a theory of primary and secondary qualities. Namely, there are some attributes of the matter which we do perceive. These are the primary qualities, and there are other things which we perceive, such as colors, which are not attributes of matter, but are perceived by us as if they were such attributes. These are the secondary qualities of matter.
Why should we perceive secondary qualities? It seems an unfortunate arrangement that we should perceive a lot of things that are not there. Yet this is what the theory of secondary qualities in fact comes to. There is now reigning in philosophy and in science an apathetic acquiescence in the conclusion that no coherent account can be given of nature as it is disclosed to us in sense-awareness, without dragging in its relation to mind.
~Whitehead
It "feels" like something just to look at something. Where is this division between being conscious at all and producing an emotional response? I think we're just extremely complicated creatures and that's it. It seems like everyone is constantly speculating in all directions when they discuss this topic.
You're going to have to model the hardware and the software before you can make any reliable conclusions.
Unless you are just a good guesser.😅
the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind
"The brave little toaster "