Real Lawyer Reacts to Game of Thrones: Trial of Tyrion Lannister
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2019
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Tyrion is put on trial for the murder of Joffrey. Does he get a fair trial?
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The last episode of Game of Thrones is almost here. So it’s time to take a look at one of the best scenes of the entire series: the trial of Tyrion Lannister.
From the Game of Thrones Wiki:
"The Court trial of Tyrion Lannister was a major turning point during the War of the Five Kings, in which Tyrion Lannister was tried for the assassination of King Joffrey Baratheon at his wedding feast.
It quickly becomes apparent that the spectacle is nothing more than a mere show trial. Tyrion observes that the presiding judge, his father, and his main accuser, Cersei, have wanted him dead for longer than anyone and that another of the judges, Mace Tyrell, will go along with whatever Tywin says.
All the witnesses against Tyrion are either his enemies or have otherwise been bribed or cajoled by his sister or father into testifying. Most give circumstantial, exaggerated, and sometimes outright false evidence, and Tyrion is not permitted to cross-examine them. It is also pretty apparent that Tyrion has no chance of acquittal.
Ultimately, Tyrion snaps at the injustice, insulting the entire court in the process. With his loyalty to his father (and to a lesser extent House Lannister) shattered, Tyrion decides to place his fate in the hands of the Seven, demanding a trial by combat, a decision that would have dire consequences."
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I get asked a lot about whether being a practicing attorney is like being a lawyer on TV. I love watching legal movies and courtroom dramas. It's one of the reasons I decided to become a lawyer. But sometimes they make me want to pull my hair out because they are ridiculous.
Today I'm taking a break from representing clients and teaching law students how to kick ass in law school to take on lawyers in the movies and on TV. While all legal movies and shows take dramatic license to make things more interesting (nobody wants to see hundreds of hours of brief writing), many of them have a grain of truth.
This is part of a continuing series of "Lawyer Reaction" videos. Got a legal movie or TV show you'd like me to critique? Let me know in the comments!
All clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).
Typical legal disclaimer from a lawyer (occupational hazard): This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos!
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Any chance of looking at the Kirk Douglas film, Paths of Glory?
omg! YOU HAD ME ROLLING!!!
Do any or if possible any court related from Fresh Prince of Bel air since Philip Bank was a lawyer then a judge afterward 😎
There's a great CZcams Channel called Game of Thrones Academy that has been examining the show from historical, political and other vantage points for about five years.
Here's a video from four years ago, when they first suggested that Sansa would sit on the Iron Throne:
czcams.com/video/Cesr8GAIjv4/video.html
Gideon’s Trump - great movie with Henry Fonda. Can you do a video on the courtroom scene (when Gideon didn’t have an attorney)?
Objection: You assumed the people in charge wanted Tyrion to have a fair trial.
@★ Froggie Animation ★ It's not though, law was not in any way set up to be this rigged
@★ Froggie Animation ★ But he states multiple times that he is basing this video and all comparisons off of modern American jurisprudence. That is what he knows, and makes videos about. Maybe your expectations could be readjusted?
@Ethan Baker imagine being this pissed off about something that matters so little...
@@Ireallylikepie22 i have to agree with him, this videos was pretty pointless and no i am not pissed, just making an observation.
@@ReeN1995 I have to agree with myself. No one should give a shit
When you realize that Tyrion is the only person that is still alive from this scene.
Some of the people in the gallery may still be alive.
Calet Evelen lets ask Dany for a head cou- ...oh wait
Calet Evelen no, danerys fucked them all up
Hahaha
Calet Evelen either cercei killed them with wildfire at the end of season 6 or dany burnt them when she killed everyone in kings landing. You would be blessed to still be alive after that.
It was so cute seeing Joffrey getting all choked up at his wedding.
purple really is his color
You win the internet
Quality comment I have to say.
Who wouldn't? It was a beautiful event. That wine was to die for!!
@@Jeremy-mg9tl well purple is the color of royalty..really suited him lol
*Me getting a traffic ticket*
“I DEMAND A TRIAL BY COMBAT”
Lmao good one
Sure, but don't start a riot when the police officer wins the trial.
@@fodick771 say that the the people watching on the fight.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1416262/Court-refuses-trial-by-combat.html
someone did try in the UK
Farhod K you’re a disgusting person, truly.
Objection:
The legal realism of the trial should be judged on the basis on medieval rather than modern U.S jurisprudence.
@@kocomissed6490
I would point out that legal eagle is "already" judging this partly on the basis of medieval jurisprudence (the section on "trial by combat" for instance), he's just not doing so in a thought-through and consistent manner.
I agree. I"m starting to dislike this guy more and more for the way he handles subject matter in his video. If it doesn't perfectly fit within his format he just shoe horns it in and hopes no one notices. Re; His hardcore suit sales tie ins in the TNG Measure of a man bit he did.
He's giving a score that's basically "D-. They didn't even TRY to make this mideval court look anything like an american court. How unrealistic." i'm surprised he didn't mention tyrion wasn't wearing a suit.
@Eska Eskaria
I mean, sure, but then it's not "legal realism" you're measuring but likeness to U.S jurispridence!
Nothing about GOT is medieval. Medieval suggests it occured in the middles ages on the planet Earth. GOT is on another planet and/or dimension.
@@mikeworkman3593
....Which (as Legal eagle points out) is heavily influenced by the wars of the roses in medieval britain. The legal realism should be based on that.
LegalEagle: this is a miscarriage of justice
Everyone who ever watched game of thrones: *suprised pikachu face*
If you want Justice, you've come to the wrong place.
Tyrion in Season 8: Surprised Pikachu face
hahahhahahahah yuuuuuuuuuup
Jon Snow : I wanna be Ugandan Knuckles "My Queen"
Lol Well, season 8 is an abortion, so it fits.
First time I realised that someone yells out 'KingSlayer' as they walk in. Perfect insult to yell as Jaime escorts Tyrion as it now applies to both of them. This show used to be so good.
Exept it doesn't tyrion didn't kill jofrie but i guess in the mind of the one who screamed he did
JaxonHaxon when did it stop being good besides season 8
@@DemarcusAurelius403 season 7 dialogue was trash too.
@@DemarcusAurelius403 Season 5 was the beggining of the end for me.
I’d have loved a spin off that kept purely to the gritty politics of kings landing and banner clashes of the Better known houses, never cared for dany or the dragons as they tilted the show away from rain, blood and grit into more fantasy and sandy cities.. blah.
Objection:
Tyrion’s isn’t in handcuffs by law, when Jaime went to take him to court he tells Tyrion that it’s on fathers orders, meaning that Tywin just did it because he felt like it.
Or that Tywin's word is law, which it is.
@Jacob Woodford When speaking about facts, events, or characters inside books or movies, you actually always speak in the present tense, unless directly quoting it, or referring to the book or character itself, not within the confines of the literature it comes from.
There is a pdf by Vanderbilt, and many other sources explaining this. Also, I did forget this, but if there is a time shift within the work itself, you can use the past tense.
Tywin just casually flexing his power there. He low key wants his son to die 🤣
@@jlinus7251 Lowkey? Lol
"Not a great legal strategy" = Emmy winning moment
I was about to say, that this was not part of any strategy anymore. Tyrion gave up on the trial already and knew he wouldn't get out. This was the moment he was deciding for the trial by combat.
Best moment of the season 😁
Back in medieval days legal had other connotations
A good example demonstrating that he who represents himself has a fool for a client.
@@Garother exactly Tyrion threw all strategy out of the window by this moment. He KNEW he would get no justice that's why he chose trial by combat, which doesn't require him to kiss any ass (ok perhaps except oberyn's)
In Australia, you can have trial by wombat.
Must have been in a Kangaroo Court.
In matters of felines, trial by tomcat.
In matters of drummers, trial by hi-hat.
In matters of entry furnishings and weak personalities, trial by doormat.
@@mysterythecat971 - I'm very happy with both of you.
😘 This is the closest thing I have to a blowing kiss emoji. Well done, I love you all~
Gamers have a Trial by Mortal Kombat
“I wish I could kill all of you” not a great legal strategy, really I had no idea. Lmao.
problem is tyrion wasn't getting a fair trial, the trial was meant to get him convicted
he was the murder no matter what he does, he knew that, so he felt that he could let go of his anger
Jiangci Yang
(Murderer. Not murder)
Objection: You are not a member of the Westerosi Bar, you have no standing to give legal advice in this jurisdiction.
i second that objection. this rigged trial was completely legal.
Third this objection
@@charge202 Objection overruled. This is not your courtroom and this is not Westeros, or Britain. The prosecution is using an example of bad law practices to show good ones.
I fourth this objection. I also challenge whomever currently rules Westeros for the throne.
@@aidengoosemorey3499 Challenging a criple? - Full marks for political incorrectness, mate.
This could be great 2 part collaboration with an expert in medieval law.
Part I: Modern american law.
Part II: Medieval English law.
I love this idea.
@@lilymcallister9751 And I love that you love this idea.
@@willh2690 I think it SHOULD be if we want to take anything meaningful away from the analysis. Failing it on US constitutional violations doesn't really tell me how accurate it was as a trial, which I thought was the intent of these videos.
that would be sick
That's what I've been wanting to learn.
"Did you kill King Joffrey?"
"Nope"
WELL good enough for me! Case dismissed!
Democrats everywhere swear by this. It always works for them. Never Republicans though.
@@bnorami another episode of politicising everything
@@bnorami Seems AG Barr is your man. The denial of you people is astounding
@@Bubbles99718 What has Barr done that makes you say that?
@@nwpgk8166 There you go
.. Please do an in-depth video about the actual 1960 French case that was granted Trial by Combat.
that would be really interesting.
Last recognized trial by combat in france was in the xiv century...
Last DUEL was in the 1960s.. it wasn't a trial, it was a private settlement of matters between two politicians. It's very very different. And a baffling mistake and lack of rigour from legal eagle.
There are a ton of articles and books written on that last trial by combat and the last duel can be seen filmed.
@@bahorel hey may I’d still like a video about that shit
@@carlosizquierdo1939 It's mostly unimpressive... unlike what many people assume, it wasn't a duel to death (duel to death were outlawed in France at some point in the 19th century) they were dual with swords and were stopped "at the first drawn blood".
This last duel was between Gaston Deferre and René Ribière, and while Defferre was skilled with the sword, René Ribière apparently never used any. The duel was rather slow and clumsy, and in fact, René Ribière was wounded at the arm twice before giving up. And those wounds were minors, we're talking about superficial cuts. But have a television report here :
czcams.com/video/e68nuAcSuWQ/video.html
Both duellists were unpleased with the publicity so the cameramen were ousted away in the garden.
"Like all of you, im looking forward to the series finally" ohh, poor summer child...
Maniacal laughter
finale
Poor Past!LegalEagle. He had no way of knowing.
THE SERIES FINALLY
Objection: someone should of been taken to real life court for the crime of season 8
“So you ran a stop sign and ...”
I REQUEST A TRIAL BY COMBAT!!!
Sigh... "Fine. Send in officer Clegane!"
@@blackthrone6976 officer clegane 😍🤩😘
That has actually happened in the UK. The court rejected it as conflicting with the EU Human RIghts Convention.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1416262/Court-refuses-trial-by-combat.html
SUSTAINED
*plays the Mortal Kombat Movie theme*
Objection: historically, trial by combat did not require the accused to participate. They could appoint someone on their behalf (as seen in Game of Thrones) and often the duels did not take place; once combatants were sized up, the matter was often settled out of court.
poizunman75 thank you. I can’t confirm but sounds realistic and true.
@@yourfairyGodgod here's a video on the subject if you're curious
czcams.com/video/Lns303qI7NY/video.html
I can second the objection. Trial by combat has been a right for a much longer time then the medieval times but few cases were documented. It was outlawed by the Roman Republic but reinstated late into the Roman empire. So it existed both before and after. I imagine the Byzantine Empire also had it or a form of it but in truth back then if you were powerful enough it didn't matter. What couldn't be settled in court could be settled at the end of assassin's blade 😅
Trial by combat wouldn't be allowed in a case like this anyway where it was the crown leveling the charges. They'd just sling him into a dungeon, torture a confession out of him and have done with it. Trial by combat was for disputes between nobles where the crown didn't want to make an enemy out of either party to the dispute by ruling against them.
Well technically it's not the crown leveling the charges anymore, it's the queen regent (a former queen but technically no longer royalty). So it's kind of debatable whether or not trial of combat would be an option.
"he could get leniency because he's a member of the same family" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@Holden Mcgroine this is false. Rewatch the episode.
@@BhlackBishop I think he is talking about the book
L U L
There was nothing in the books that suggested to me that tywin had orchestrated tyrions escape. It Was Jaime alone who convinced varys to help him to free tyrion. Noone else knew of it.
@@blubberbernd2347 Certainly not an escape, but Tywin suggests that he would have sent Tyrion to the Night's Watch. Certainly a possibility, Tywin wanted Tyrion out of the family tree and that would accomplish that.
To be honest, I feel like in the books if you read into Tyrion and Tywin's interactions (and take into account Kevan), Tywin is pretty decent, and Tyrion is acting like a spoiled brat. (You know, organizing the horrific scene that was his wife's rape aside, though I would still say that was awful to Tysha, not Tyrion)
The purple wedding....still a dull affair by dothraki standards.
The Red Wedding would have probably made them delirious with happiness!
@@dragonheart8706 or dead
4 seasons later, he begs Daenerys for these people's lives
Book Tyrion seems like he would be all for it.
Weren’t those nobles burnt up in the explosion of the sept of baelor
@@kennymondesir188 This. His motivation was to prevent Daenerys from becoming a monster that killed civilians. He had little interest in the actual guilty parties not being killed, except that most of them were already dead by Cersei's hand.
It’s almost like it’s a show about people’s changing perspectives.
Tyrion went from a political mastermind and battle strategy expert on the lannisters side to being the most useless adviser Daenerys had. Its almost like the writers forgot who he was and were too stupid to write his character any way. they never showed him grow into being the guy who plead for other ppls lives.
OBJECTION! In medieval England it was permitted for an accused to elect a champion to fight on their behalf if they were female, elderly, a clergy member or in some way disabled (blind, deaf, lame etc). For this case of trial by combat Tyrion’s dwarfism would qualify as a disability to allow him a champion.
Though come to that I think in GoT you can name a champion if you’re of a noble house as the nobles seem to use that to get out of trouble a lot since most of them are pretty squishy.
Brandon stark was going to fight for himself in a trial by combat against the King. He expected Arys II “the mad king” to name one of the kings guard as his champion. But King Arys cowardly declares “fire” to be the champion of house Targaryen. And so he burns Brandon Stark alive in his own armor. The Starks, at least, prefer to fight their own battles it seems. They are a noble house
@@ryanboggs8685 Well but Brandon was a warrior tho
@@ryanboggs8685 No wait Brandon was the heir who was put in a foreign torture device that would choke you if you try to escape.
@@ryanboggs8685 Slight nitpick, it was actually Brandon's father Rickard who wanted a trial by combat for himself and his son. When Rickard was tied up and boiled alive, Brandon was put in a strangling device and told to grab a sword just out of reach to save his father. Desperate to save his father, Brandon strangled himself to death trying to get that sword and Rickard was cooked in his own armor.
Hold up, Tyrion never "requested" a trial by combat. He *demanded* it 💪
3:34 Objection. I think you've missed the point. King Tommen recuses himself, not because he's related to Tyrion, but because of the HUGE conflict of interest. He got to be king because of the crime being examined at this trial.
Does he really have a conflict of interest in the trial?
He became the king the minute Joffrey died. Whether Tyrion killed Joffrey or not, whether Tyrion's found guilty or not doesn't affect that.
Tommen still remains king any way the trial ends, Joffrey is not resurrected if Tyrion's let go.
It's worth mentioning that Tywin had a conflict of interest as well. It was no secret that he hated Tyrion.
Overruled, the "Official" reason he recuses himself is because he a king (thus above tyrion) and a CHILD and thus would not be able to offer a ruling as a "peer" of tyrions
But the fact he has a conflict as a family member, would be a good enough reason to tommen (who is generally considered a kind kid) and thus is a high possibilty
The fact he became king after joffeys death has nothing to do with it
He recused himself because Tywin was the true power behind the throne.
He’s also 9, thus being both incapable of leading a trial and a pushover
"Awaiting the finale..."
Objection! None of us wanted to see that...
I love how it ended 😅
"because of how much he loved Joffrey, his grandson" hahahahahaha
He loved the fact that his grandson was king, not the king himself.
such deep love the lannisters have for family
"He should use medieval law for this"
He's... not a medieval law expert. Few are. So don't expect him to be.
Besides, putting GoT politics in dialogue with modern law is really interesting and fun.
This was a great, fun idea
You've got a fair point. Although I would have loved if he also used the medieval version of the law as a second perspective, then compared it with the modern perspective.
That would have been fairly interesting.
He even states in the video "from a US legal perspective."
Well he shouldn't give it a mark then,it just seems like insult to writer who spent countless hours researching medieval world.Not saying it isn't fun idea but you can't rate something like this if you aren't knowledgeable in medieval law.
@@hexingon6088 You can rate on how well they organised a trial for example how do they handle evidence and such. As for medieval law? What medieval law? There were places that had a law book, other places that didn't and even then the laws of 15th century England were different from those of the 13th century. Since Westeros is a fictional place and no kingdom similar to it existed in real life the best thing you can do is guess. This was a fun video with well made points as to why it would suck being an accused in the Westerosi judical system.
@@TheShadowOfZama Plus it was staged to make Tyrion guilty, so it doesnt even count as a good example of law.
"I want to enact a law that will end trial by combat." "I challenge this law!.. ...with trial by combat."
Tyrion: I wish I could poison all of you!
Legal Eagle: Now, this here is not a great strategy.
After you said "if I had the chance to cross examine him" at 11:25, I just started imagining you in that courtroom defending Tyrion
Jacob Dutkiewicz that be so sic
Yeah Tyrion has no one representing him who is a legal expert. You need an impartial and fair jury too.
in medieval England the lawyer would have been executed too
@@usul573 ~ To be fair, Tyrion is the smartest person in the room, with the only real challengers to the title being Tywin and Varys. The only reason Tyrion really even needs legal counsel is because they won't actually let him defend himself.
"Your honor, my client drinks and he knows things."
>Mace speaking
>Subtitles: Tywin speaking
Poor Mace, not even the subtitles gives you credit.
That’s because the subtitles were made by Olenna Tyrell
When he explained the hearsay rules, my brain got overloaded.
Objection! Wouldn't it be more fair to judge this trial based on courts that existed during the War of the Rose's, which inspired this series?
I second that, though I dont imagine he has enough knowledge of the legal standards of the setting to effectively judge the happening
Plus, the point of this show is to use movies/tv as a jumping off point to educate people on the (currently operating) legal system. Using accurate depictions of the legal system that predated and birthed the modern US legal system still achieves that.
@@nachofilament294 fair, but there is also value in examining historical context. Learn how laws and legal practice have changed over the centuries... thus I would argue that evaluating this trial from a similar perspective would be more beneficial than judging it from the modern perspective
Bad objection. He’s not an expert in that. He has a full-time job, bud.
Objection: the series were inspired by the books (which were inspired by the war of the Rose's though)
GoT used to have clever and iconic moments like this... wow
Big Super Exactly
If you want the correlation - when they followed the books, it was good. I recommend you read them.
I know, man - and it's all gone now
Michael Rosenbaum that’s why it started to suck haha. They had to use their brains when they ran out of material
wayne wayne yeah too bad they didn’t
“Like a lot of you, I’m waiting for the series finale”
😬
9:46 I love how he's being very subtle with hating Joffrey throughout the video. I haven't seen many lawyers with this much sense of humor but I like it
In a trial by combat you are allowed to have a "champion" fight in the stead of both parties.
It was fought till "first blood."
If the one who was struck first lived and wished to continue. It was then to the death.
Often times people would yield.
Oh and "never happened in the us"?
What do you call a duel?
10 paces and turn...
Andrew Jackson had fought in several... The president...
Not under German law of the period. In the Holy Roman Empire, trial by Combat, like *all* forms of trial by ordeal, was *always* to the death, and so only allowed in capital cases. If the accused requested a champion, they'd be waiting for the outcome on the gallows with a noose around their neck.
Oh, and to request a champion, you'd have to convince the court that you were unfit to fight for yourself. Tyrion might qualify under German law, but seeing as this trial is *after* he goes into battle to defend King's Landing from an invading army, I would tend to doubt it.
*ALEXANDER HAMILTON* "I'll see you on the other side
Raise a glass to freedom..."
*AARON BURR* "I strike him right between his ribs
I walk towards him, but I am ushered away"
I apologise for my musical interruption, you may carry on.
You're confusing trial by combat with duel of honor
@Geoffrey Robb I'd like a source for that. Especially the right to a champion; AFAIK, English law of that period expressly permits peers of the realm to refuse the wager of battle entire, but not to name champions to fight in their stead.
@@jochentram9301 IIRC, the English law regarding the wager of battle was that it was a motion by the defence solely in crimes bearing a capital punishment, with no right to a champion (except for women and members of the clergy*), although the defendant may ask people to stand with him (and potentially share his fate), should the plaintiff bring multiple fighters to the trial by combat.
The right to a trial by combat did not apply to a defendant apprehended in the mainour (caught red-handed), and the judge had the power to deny a trial by combat in favour of a trial by ordeal. Technically, it could be argued that Tyrion had been apprehended in the mainour (as he was at the scene of the crime, at the time of the victim's death, holding the wine goblet the victim had just drunk from, which contained traces of poison in the dregs), but the evidence there is sufficiently circumstantial that Tywin, as judge, was wholly within his rights to hold it did not constitute apprehension in the mainour and grant Tyrion a Trial by Combat
The plaintiff could refuse a trial by combat, regardless of rank, but doing so conceded the case. The combat itself was typically technically to first yield (with the caveat that if the defendant or his champion yielded, they would be put to death), or until a pre-determined time limit expired (typically when the plaintiff had greater combative force to bring to bear, the defendant merely had to not lose for a set period of time to be considered innocent).
*Technically, the infirm did not have a right to a champion, but it was occasionally granted. Those whose conditions were chronic were, as far as I could tell, granted it significantly less often than those whose infirmities were temporary or recent, possibly as they had had occasion to adjust.
In game of thrones defence; the trial was just a setup to kill Tyrion
I don't think it was a setup. I think Cersei genuinely believed that Tyrion killed him. She was wrong of course. But it wasn't a huge leap considering Joffery and Tyrion's relationship.
or ship him to the Wall
I think Cersei killed him... I mean, she killed her other son just so she could have the throne.
@@luckyinugirl1816 Olenna Tyrell killed Joffery. She admits it twice. And Cersei didn't kill Tommen. Tommen committed suicide.
Kangaroo Court
Interesting note: the Song of Roland (an early medieval French text) has a trial by combat at the end. What I found most striking is that in the book the jurors did the trial by combat. Two jurors disagreed on the innocence of the accused. To determine the innocence two opposing jurors fought each other in a trial by combat. I found this a much more interesting concept as opposed to the accused fighting for themselves or naming some champion. A fight among the jurors means that they are convinced enough of their opinion in the matter that they are willing to put their life on the line. This can of course still be strongarmed by a particular gruesome member of the jury, but it is still better than having the cruel and strong get away with crimes because of their battle prowess.
How pycell managed to say “most honourable child” whilst stood over joff, without breaking into laughter.. I don’t know.
He's such a sycophant, he probably believed it...
Can you analyze the legal scene from spongebob. Plankton v Mr Krabs. Spongebob is the lawyer
Oh yes we need this!
he did it
@@quantumvortex Ft TierZoo
@@TrashDeviant He needs to do the trail of Martin Sugar after his cartoon break.
Shouldn't this be compared to medieval law? Seems silly to compare it to modern U.S. law.
Agreeable. Comparing this to those of a modern republic's trial court is completely bonkers! DISLIKED!
3D Dragon Dewd In that regard I’m pretty sure nobles, even nobles no one likes had certain privileges that a common accused wouldn’t. In the case of regicide unless they were literally caught in the act I think they would get a trail. Though probably not a very fair one.
allyourmoney
Yeah I don’t get the point...
I mean he ordered by trail by combat!
Trail by combat...
allyourmoney agreed.
Exactly otherwise there's going to be a lot of pauses like there is.
tywin never loved Joffrey he only wants tyrion dead because he killed his mother at birth
Joffrey was a good puppet for him.
@@petrsevcik5044 No, he wasn't. Joffrey was demented and probably wouldn't have actively listened to Tywin. Tommen was a much easier puppet, as demonstrated by how easily the Faith manipulated him.
Yea, Tywin was apathetic toward Joffrey. His revenge was 100% motivated by his hatred for Tyrion.
You seem like a good lawyer. I think if you were representing Tyrion, you would have been swiftly killed. That's how King's Landing works. The trial was always meant to incriminate Tyrion. They wouldn't have let you help him. Lol
Honestly, that's a surprisingly good score considering it was designed to be blatantly corrupt in order to warrant an emotional reaction from the audience.
OBJECTION!!
This court proceeding was rigged against Tyrion by way of his sister Cersi Lannister. So he would have been found guilty either way.
Baseless without evidence
Cersei had nothing to do with it. It was Tywin who rigged it against Tyrion
@@TK-wk6xd in the series, jamie says it't both cersei and tywin
Technically Cersei only had a part in coercing Shae into testifying against Tyrion. But Tywin was responsible for judging the case mostly. But I find it odd that people truly believe that this season, Tywin wanted to have Tyrion killed. Sure, he’s made Tyrion’s life a living hell, but that’s how things have been Tyrion’s whole life. Probably Tywin was gonna let Tyrion join the Night’s Watch, but after his outburst in the trial, Tyrion pretty much guaranteed his execution.
Also, don’t you realize that throughout the whole series, if Tywin really wanted to have Tyrion killed he could’ve already done it. BUT, “He’s a Lannister. He might be the lowest of the Lannisters, but he’s one of us.”. It’s that sense of honor that Tywin still has for the family name, that proceeds him from doing so; unless something were to happen to Tyrion that wasn’t from his own doing, like dying in battle or being convicted of killing the king, then it’s out of Tywin’s hands.
Plus, there is evidence in both the books and the show that Tywin knows that Tyrion didn’t kill Joffrey. He’s simply using the show trial as an excuse to get rid of his own son. Plus (in theory), Tywin probably was going along with the trial in order to remove suspicion of Joffrey’s real killer. He knows nobody in his family would’ve done it, so it had to of been someone from another house. So if Tywin convicted Tyrion and sent him to the Night’s Watch, then Tywin could conduct his own investigation about who really killed Joffrey, since the true killer would’ve assume they got away with it. Tywin would be able to find the true killer, and if he did, Tyrion’s name would be cleared. And even better, Tyrion may not have been able to leave the Night’s Watch, anyway. Tyrion’s out of his life and the family name is left untarnished, basically a win-win for Tywin.
@@shunakiyama6275I don't know think he would have gone thru all of that effort.
Did anyone else hear Olenna in there head when Joffrey is choking,"help the poor boy."
Would love to see you do the Punisher trial from DareDevil.
Yes!
Yes please
Yesss
God yes
WolfLary O'Brien Well he’s now done it! :)
So medieval law from an alternate universe is different than modern American law? What a shock.
Look up animal trials. They are surreal.
Really pointless video, this was. To begin with, the trial was a farce and we all knew it.
American law dont exist, what the USA uses is English common law.
@@alejandromolina7270 The donkey is well behaved so we're going to acquit her of bestiality, but we're going to put the man who had sex with her to death.
Yes, obviously. He's using a fantastical but incredibly well known trial as context to give a lesson on US law.
Lol, imagine getting a car ticket for parking and at the court you request a trial by combat
Objection:
Trial by combat was never officially abolished by the U.S.
Wait what, please explain
@@bookbook9495 It's now called mutual combat. And it is legal in a few states. Basically a police supervised fist fight, if both parties agree, to settle arguments at bars and similar disputes.
I LOVE IT
@Dennis Ynborg that’s disappointing, but I still think that’ll be entertaining to watch
"You are hereby found guilty of running a red light. Your fine is 200$ and 1 month license suspension."
*HOLD IT!*
I demand a trial by combat.🤨
Yolo Swaggins I’m just guessing but maybe trial by combat could only be implied if the accused was facing the death penalty. Obviously back then no one wanted the death penalty to be cancelled unlike today. In fact public executions were entertainment for a lot of townsfolk who were bored and wanted to see someone die
Huh... that really makes me wonder about the limits of trial by combat. Can it be demanded after the verdict has been reached? How far into the trial was it still an option?
Objection! The premiere feature is misleading.
Please do Star Trek 6, the Klingon trial of James T Kirk. The parallels of interplanetary vs international law would be amazing.
Tyrion: I would die to have all of you drink poison!
Also Tyrion: my Queen......can’t we spare them?
Objection: all characters became inconsistent after season six. So the Tyrion groveling for those lives and the Tyrion with an axe to grind have only a superficial resemblance to each other - and to Peter Dinclage.
Jaime Lannister, pre-Season 1: "King Aerys is ordering the immolation of Kings Landing with wildfire! Though I will disgrace myself as a Kingslayer, I _must_ save the people!"
Jaime Lannister, Season 8: "I never cared for the people of Kings Landing."
There have been casualties. :-(
"I am waiting eagerly for the series finale"
Somehow, that has not really aged well :D
You need to review the court scene in "To Kill A Mockingbird" the orginal movie
You should cover Law Abiding Citizen. That would be a great episode.
I love how serious you are while watching this... You are quite awesome.
Objection this was a Kangroo court. The crowd was impartial jury. I definitely agree with you on the prejudice of their house being unbias
The kangaroo court of the kind Tyrion faces in this scene is the reason modern law exists for Legal Eagle to talk about
Another good example of a unfair kangaroo court is the 6th game in the Ace Attorney series Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice. As Phoenix learns early on along with the disdain of lawyers, the other reason why the Kingdom of Ku'rain has basically no defense attorneys allowing corrupt prosecutors like Gaspen Payne to hand down unfair guilty verdicts for as long as they could was due to what was known as the DC: Act officially known as the Defense Culpability Act basically as The Judge and Gaspen explained that if the defendant is found guilty of a crime the defense attorney will get the same punishment as the defendant and since Albhi a 10-year old boy mind you was on trial for murder that meant the punishment was execution meaning if Phoenix lost not only would Albhi be wrongfully killed, so would Phoenix.
I remember hearing about a guy in the UK demand trial by combat over a traffic ticket because the law was still on the books, they didn't go for it.
5:04 one part from the book that they should have put in the show is that Tyson did order an autopsy on Joffrey’s body and verified that his airways were not blocked by food
Currently entering my 4th (last year) of the National Law program at Ottawa University (getting my JD and License en Droit Civile - french) and your videos have become a part of my daily routine this past year. Anyways, I decided to read the entire A Song of Ice and Fire saga this summer, and finding this on your channel is such a beautiful clash of worlds.
Objection. Other people could fight in your behalf irl
Next. Real pastor reacts to red wedding
Or real wedding planner.
"...yeah so that's not very typical at a wedding"
"The decoration here is horrible"
Between hearing you say RBG will never die last night and hearing how you are looking forward to season 8........ your future self is going to be surprised.
"Getting some clues about how Game of Thrones is going to end..." That line didn't age well at all in the last few weeks.
Objection the laws of the United states do not apply to Westeros.
Its only a comparison. He stated it at the beginning that it was only a comparison. Applying modern US law/court procedure to a medieval styled trial.
Objection! Foley v Luthman 2016, NY Supreme Court Justice Minardo ruled that, in theory, the court has the power to sanction a trial by combat.
Does it specify what kind of combat? Does a video game, car race or chess match qualify as combat?
@@justin8894 It doesn't specify. It concludes that the court has the power to sanction a trial by combat but it declined to do so, yielding to modern litigation practices.
I've seen a few of these so far now and hot damn your segues into the advertisements are heckin' seamless
I haven’t seen that in court but generally not a great strategy...
Gold🤣
If this was a real legal system, with trials by combat, the main qualification of a lawyer would be to be super strong ^^
Not really, you'd be amazed how little strength plays into armed combat, far better to be reasonably strong and really fucking quick.
ndalby187 not just quick, but quick and accurate.
A really strong dude with no skill will seldom win against someone with skill. Exception if the skilled person makes a single mistake, such as looking the other way at any point during, or just after, the fight.
Back to the point, you can easily parry attacks by moving your body just the slightest bit while forcing your opponent to move around much more and they will eventually tire out before you. And a quick counter attack to a vital target can end a fight very quickly.
But on the point of being careless... unlike the movies, people don’t die when you deal the fatal blow. If their head is still attached and in one piece, they can use all their remaining organs until they pass out. That can be a couple minutes. It might even be said that once you dealt the fatal blow, the real fight is just begun. All you have to do is not die for a few minutes, while they have nothing to lose and try to take you down with them.
You all are literally arguing about the mountain vs oberyn martell which was the outcome from the trial by combat ahahahah
it was a real sistem once
Saw the premier announcement for this yesterday... Clicked it today, thinking it was live already... Guess not!
Objection: I lion does not concern himself with your constitution!
Damn I had such high hopes for this show and this arc with Tyrion over the first few seasons was my favourite.
And then the writers got scared. They didn't want to show fan-favourite characters in a negative light. Hence why Tyrion doesn't go down the dark path he does in the book (and thus, his character development grinds to a halt), Arya's murders are portrayed more as "f*ck yeah!" moments with no real moral ambiguity behind them, etc.
@@malcolmferguson4869 admittedly some of the people Arya kills did have it coming
@@michaelnally2841 That's partly my point though. Like, they made Meryn Trant a pedophile at the last minute just to ensure there would be no moral ambiguity when she killed him.
Objection! Bee Movie got an F! Tyrion's Trial is way more realistic than Bee Movie!
@LegalEagle
Can you talk to a Canadian Lawyer and ask them to make LegalMoose for our laws?
And a British lawyer for LegalBulldog
@@LevatekGaming I'd have said LegalBeagle
Wouldn't Canada be LegalLoon? :p
@@marhawkman303 The eagle is actually more native to Canada than it is to the US... :eyes:
@@julianmoretti7847 I thought you guys had Loons on your money? :p
Joffery is based on a real Blood thirsty young Prince of England.
Everyone in Europe (but especially England) is related to pretty much everyone 300 years ago.
I am English.
Ergo I am related to Joffery.
Legal Eagle: You normally have to file a motion for a trial by combat.
Me: I challenge you to Agni Kai!
Alright, I didn't want to have to do this, but I'm calling Kangaroo Court.
Do that have kangaroos on that planet?
They have elephants and sharks. It's not too much of a stretch that they have a kangaroo somewhere in Essos. Earth King Kuei had a bear after all. How weird was that?
Does the question "Does he get a fair trail?" really need to be answered ? Its pretty obvious that he did not get a fair trail.
Yeah, pretty much any trial in Westeros would be unfair by real world modern standards and this one is an obvious sham trial even in by the in-universe standards.
@@wildcardbitchesyeehaw8320 lol true
Fairer than what Varys got..
@@qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqw Varys was at least treated fairly by Westerosi standards though. He didn't deny the allegations so there wasn't need for a trial.
Unfair trails are the worst... Roots sticking up to trip you while your minding your own business... Jerks
A trial by combat did not necessarily need the defendant to be fighting historically, it actually worked in a similar manner to how it does in GOT, if the defendant is a woman, a member of the upper nobility or is considered medically unwell then they can receive a champion
Do Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile Ted Bundy trial next
Given that the judge (HIS FATHER) wanted to see him dead, I'd say this trial MAY BE stacked against Tyrion's favour.
Impartial Judge, by modern standards that's grounds for Re-trial.
Sorry I can't helpt it. This has to happen
Can you review the Judge Dread movie ?
To see if Judge dread really is the law
Well that would be a straight no right out the gate
Judge Dredd
HE IS, THE LAW!
Honestly in Mega City One I'm pretty sure what they're doing is legal by definition of the fact that the Judge is doing it. Facism is very efficient when you combine the powers of the legislature, the police and the judiciary in one person.
Come on guys, Judge Dredd has nothing on Judge Jeanine Pirro.
Just found your channel.... So fresh and addicting to watch you breakdown the movies. Been watching them back to back.
May I request you breakdown Sylvester Stallone's Judge Dredd movie please? Be very interesting to see your take on it!
Thank you again for the awesome awesome channel!
"As you can see here, the people of the gallery have their heads slightly tilted instead of looking directly ahead, so clearly this just doesn't make much sense"
Said it in chat and I’ll say it here.
Please DO NOT do Premier, especially a day in advance.
I don’t need a notification for something I can’t even watch.
I could see doing a Premier maybe an hour or 10 minutes before hand, but this is excessive.
Also, there’s been some research done by some analytics channels that suggests Premier actually performs worse in the algorithm, so you’re actually hurting yourself by doing it.
You do you, I can’t stop you.
But I do get annoyed by it.
Really? This is your life altering issue? A CZcams notification has ruined your life and changed your coarse in life. Stop being a little bitch and try to be a man in this world. People today are just the most useless creatures on this planet.
Larry Gentry did I ever say any of those things?
No.
And if me giving feedback is pathetic then you criticizing my feedback must be the saddest thing possible.
Larry Gentry *course
JFRazorOfficial well he is a coarse individual, so maybe that’s why he used the wrong word
Objection! Everyone sucks and nothing matters!
Holy shit, I never realised that Tyrion wasn't tried under US law!
Thanks for clarifying that, It was so confusing the whole time.
livinlicious right?? I don’t understand these videos that are going to critique something in a fictional non existent fantasy world as if it supposed to be historrically accurate 🙈
Omg thanks for your incredibly witty response this was such a silly video I mean its not like its for entertainment purposes and to try teach you a bit about law in a fun way nonono this must have gone over the creators head
holy shit I cant keep this up your actually stupid
@@hippityhoppity7394 thnx... i was gonna say it if u didnt
Agreed/sustained. Should this be under 'Laws Broken' instead of 'Real Lawyer Reacts' or something?
What we need is a expert in fictional courts to analyze this.
Tyrion: Father may I ask the witness one question?
Tywin: I'll allow it.
One of my favorite channels on youtube. Thanks for the time and effort to make these videos fun and informative.
Wait does law school cover sword fighting
Better call saul episode S03E05 "Chicanery"
Case Saul vs chuck
I think it's very accurate
Objection: You've never seen GOT...
Tywin isn't mad at Tyrion for killing Joffrey. He didn't like Joffrey either. He hates Tyrion
I don't know if this has been addressed before but United States used to solve disputes with 'Dueling' in which even a former would be President engaged in. While not taking place after a trial it was still considered a legal way to resolve a dispute which is in turn is a form of Trial of Combat. In fact it might be prudent to see if any states still allow dueling.
You should react to/make a "Laws Broken" video of Mrs Doubtfire. It would be interesting for you to do.
I think he already did maybe?
@@irishdc9523
No he did!
@@Raptormon132 Yeah, it was Film Theory I was thinking of
OBJECTION!
Westeros has not codified their legal system, thus they have no need for lawyers.
Being deep within the feudalism system, Game of Thrones is a good reminder of what life was like under absolute monarchies and fiedoms. While Westeros has some 'ancient traditions,' such as the Nights Watch being outside the command of kings, we are reminded often that such traditions lack any real power. They are simply 'social normal's' until some Lord decides they are not....
At which point we have to ask the only question that matters within a feudal system:
Do you have banner-man you can rally?
Let us look closer at that inheritance angle you brought up:-
The whole series takes place during a period of time where multiple individuals are vying to sit on that large uncomfortable piece of metal, when they really should be working together against an external threat. The story even begins with the true heir in exile after another house usurped the throne. When it is revealed that the children of said usurper are illegitimate, his two brothers fall on themselves to fight over the throne. It is at this point that *other lords* start to rally behind the candidates based solely on the one they like the most.
Given those actions, it is obvious to me that the 'line of succession' was never codified... they where nothing more then guidelines tossed out the window long ago.
From the shocking Red Wedding through to smaller things such as the changing of lands and titles, we keep encountering the fact the Lords have absolute power over anything we might try to deem to resemble 'law.' Any trials we do see only highlight this fact, as these lords are the lone jury, judge and... in some cases literal... executioners. Even cases bought before the King are nothing more then show trials designed to spin the narrative in the direction favored by the crown.
After all - Ned confess that he made up the whole incest thing to try and steal the crown!
PS:
Not totally true, even the period the book is based on had something akin to a legal system, and it was just as messy.
This is also why I used the words 'tradition' and 'social normal,' as I don't feel comfortable legitimizing systems that embody absolute power. The time period Game of Thrones is based on was ripe with that sort of abuse, hence why seeing it front and fore is accurate. Outside of lip-service to a few rituals, which even then could be changed on a whim, there was no stability. When 'laws' can change the moment a Lord died, or even across the borders between fiefdoms in the same country, we are far from *codified.*
Oh, and please... nitpick away, devil advocates are always welcome.
@@VoxVictus,
The period Westeros is based on was... a mess, a real bloody mess.
I am very curious as to how LegalEagle will handle the matter as well:
Will he simply apply modern law to the situation?
Will he use real world history to explain the feudalism on which Game of Thrones is based?
Maybe he has done some further research, so we can learn how Game of Thrones differs from both feudalism and modern law?
I hope LegalEagle avoids the first option, although it would be funny to joke about gold cloaks tackling someone approaching the throne it isn't as informative. The third would be the best option as I am very curious how it differs from what I can find on medieval legal systems. As some of the people I admire the most have been those whom codified laws, most during the age of enlightenment so not the scope of this video by a long shot, I hope he gives us some real world history so we learn something useful.
PS:
Lawyers in the Dark Ages are something I would highly recommend looking into, with a reminder not to be too focused on England. Places did have *codified* positions that would be akin to legal-aid and, while people authorized to said positions where rare, this does show something existing for 'serious situations.' If you are more curious about the insanity of the dark ages though, I would recommend looking into the Oaths and Ordeals, as that was the process us peasants would have to... well.... Ordeal through.
The Dark Ages might have been less 'legal,' but they where not completely without lawyers.
There are remarkably few absolute monarchies in the period you are describing, absolute monarchies are seen far more in the early modern period where technological advancements allow for greater centralisation of power, communication and administration. Feudalism cannot function without compliant vassals and this requires granting them concessions and rights.
They were laws on feudalism Europe, actually. Not many, and not well enforced except on the interest of the nobility, but they existed.
LE, would love to see a reaction on the recent Oberlin College / Gibsons' bakery lawsuit, not so much on whether verdict was correct but on the legal strategy employed by either side in the case, or why the Oberlin strategy failed.
Nice video 👍
It seem like a flaw with a peer court has the flaw where insulting the jury and wishing everyone to die could work against you, even though it's not illegal to wish.
Or so it would seem.