Chicago's Lost 'L' Train to Milwaukee Wisconsin
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2022
- The Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee Railroad (reporting mark CNSM), also known as the North Shore Line, was an interurban railroad that operated passenger and freight service over an 88.9-mile (143.1 km) route between the Chicago Loop and downtown Milwaukee, as well as an 8.6-mile (13.8 km) branch line between the villages of Lake Bluff and Mundelein, Illinois. The North Shore Line also provided streetcar, city bus, and motor coach services along its interurban route. Extensively improved under the one-time owner of Samuel Insull, the North Shore Line was notable for its high operating speeds and substantial physical plant, as well as innovative services such as its pioneering "ferry truck" operations and its streamlined Electroliner trainsets. Author and railroad historian William D. Middleton described the North Shore Line as a "super interurban"56 and opined that its cessation of rail service marked the end of the "interurban era" in the United States. Since 1964, the Yellow Line of the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) has operated over a short segment of the former main line from Chicago to Skokie, Illinois. Operating examples of North Shore Line rolling stock have been preserved in railroad museums, and the former Dempster Street Station is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
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I’m from a town located between Chicago and Milwaukee and my grandpa always talks about how he played hooky with his siblings and hopped on the train to Milwaukee or Chicago some days
Such a bummer we don’t have the same opportunity now
You do… it’s a Amtrak train from union station to Milwaukee it’s like $25
@@jhonnicash5958 If he's from a town between Chicago and Milwaukee, it's a little inconvenient to go to union station.
I know it would be more convenient for me if I could start at the Howard L station and go to Milwaukee.
@@jonnda So you're saying there are no stations/stops between the two? Come on now, even I know that's just not true.
@@loadedtrucker447 metra yes, Amtrak, I don't know of any by me. I would have to take the metra into town to get on Amtrak. That's how I have always had to do it.
@@loadedtrucker447
There's Chicago union station, Glenview (WTF?), Sturtevant, WI (Racine), and then Milwaukee airport, and Milwaukee.
Great if you live by Glenview, not great if you live in the northern suburbs, or by Zion (North shore line used to stop there).
The North Shore didn’t even lose money. It was just aging and needed updating, and with the Interstate coming, the handwriting was on the wall. It could have been saved for a pittance.
My dad was the Vice President and Chief Legal Counsel for the North Shore. He had to go to the US Supreme Court to get permission for the company to go out of business. Thanks for posting this video.
Wow. Both interesting and sad. I'm from the South Bend area and have taken advantage of the South Shore many times since the 80s. I wish our northern counterpart was still there.
@@arrowguy173 Me too. I’m also familiar with the South Shore, having grown up in Michiana myself.
I think a lot of people here would be interested in understanding why the company wanted to go out of business. My personal guess is that the cost of maintaining and running a line like this in the era of cheap car transportation in the 1950's and 1960's was the reason.
@@matapan08 I did a paper on the topic back in college and that was my basic thesis. The advent of interstate travel made it difficult for the company to make a profit. The gist of Dad’s case before the US Supreme Court was that the unions wanted the railroad to continue so that its members wouldn’t lose their jobs. Dad was able to show that this was not feasible and that the company had every right to go out of business. The court sided with my father and the railroad was disbanded. The question I’ve had is how the South Shore managed to stay in business. My guess is that it had to do with some difference in traffic between Milwaukee and Chicago vs. Michigan City and Chicago. Whether that difference was simply numerical or socioeconomic I don’t know. It’s nice to see that at least some folks still have an interest in the North Shore. It certainly has some history behind it. May 2023 be a good year for you.
@@davidstout6051 Thank you for sharing your father's arguments. I'm interested in better understanding the arguments made for and against taking a private entity and making it into a public entity presumably for the greater good.
The South Shore Line is operated by the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District, a Metra equivalent in Indiana I think. A similar petition to discontinue passenger rail service occurred by the owner of the South Shore Line in 1976. Rather than to accept the petition though, the Interstate Commerce Commision provided an opportunity for the state of Indiana to form a public entity to take over service.
Another factor that might be useful to investigate is the value of the right of way along the North Shore Line. I wonder if some of those right of ways are more valuable in the Northern Chicago suburbs compared to going towards Indiana, and whether or not this had some bearing or not. If you look at how difficult is has been to even extend the Skokie Swift/Yellow Line to Old Orchard, there might be some recognition for how there are opposing forces to reusing right of ways for public transit.
I joined the Navy in 1962 and went to Great Lakes for boot camp and school after boot camp until Dec. 1962. In that time I rode this train only once. Being a train fan I rode up front and the engineers door was open. I could see the speedometer , we were doing somewhere between 98 and 102 MPH woow it was fantastic. I didn't know it died one month after I left the area. What a shame!
You might be in the minority about the demise of the North Shore Line. Years ago, I think the CTA looked at extending the Skokie Swift line to go to Old Orchard on the old North Shore Line right of way. It never came to fruition. I think the local residents who wanted that line gone and stay gone outweighed the number of people who wanted it.
That was a small ask, Can you imagine what would happen if someone proposed resurrecting this line again?
@@matapan08 The NIMBYs would go crazy but The CTA should grow some balls and ignore them and They should try cooperating with Metra with this
My Dad and I used to take the train from Milwaukee to Chicago. We'd hang out on Clark Street, go to the museum with the lion statues out front and wander around people watching and having a bite before heading back in the evening. He's been gone many years, but some of my best memories are of us just enjoying time together. ❤️
The lions grace the front of the Art Institute on Michigan Avenue.
Douglas, thank you so much for the information! My Dad has been gone for 17 years now and I still think of him daily. We were so close. I can't even tell you how many museums we went to, art shows and community street art fairs we attended. I truly believe he inspired my creative side. ❤️
@@Shayna11NM Of the museums you may have visited, I'll mention that the Museum of Science and Industry in Jackson Park is the lone survivor of the Columbian Exposition of 1893. At the time it was the Palace of Fine Arts.
@@douglasjackson5007 I honestly don't know if I saw that one. I recall visiting so many museums. One stands out in particular, a children's museum, I believe. There was a grassy courtyard shaded by big trees and a summer school class was making papier mache items in the open air. I loved it!
@@Shayna11NM The Art Institute is still here (across the street from me right now) and excellent. Come back any time!
Living as I do about a city block from the North Shore Line. I only rode it a few times as a child but have had a lifelong interest in it. A book written by a gentleman named Middleton covers this railroad and many other interurbans very well. Probably out of print now as it was written not long after the railroad closed in 1963.😊
The book you may be referring to is 'The Interurban Era' By William D. Middleton - first published in 1961. He also wrote a book detailing the North Shore line exclusively - 'North Shore: America's Fastest Interurban' in 1963. There are many other books also written about this interesting railroad.
I grew up a block away from the North Shore tracks in Skokie. As little kids, we would tape pennies to the tracks and marvel at the resulting flattened and distorted coins after a train ran over them. It's a wonder we never derailed anything! I still have these coins as a monument to a misspent youth.
There are quite a few excellent books on the North Shore Line. One is the CERA (Central Electric Railfans' Assocation) Bulletin "106 Interurban to Milwaukee" And CERA "Bulletin 107 "Route of the Electroliners". "Days of the North Shore Line" by Campbell. "North Shore Line Memories" by Campbell. "North Shore Line: Interurban Freight" by Derouin. "The Road of Service: Perspectives On The North Shore Line" by Carlson. "Interurbans to the Loop: North Shore Line; South Shore Line" by Olmsted. "The North Shore Line" by David Sadowski (this is one of those ubiquitous Arcadia Publishing books). And, finally, Morning Sun books which produces many books focusing mainly on nice photos but little text, has some with considerably more historical text than their usual books. They are: "Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee Railway in Color, Streetcars & Electroburgers, Vol. 1" by Doughty, "Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee In Color Vol. 2: Point of No Return" by Doughty, and "The Insull Chicago Interurbans: CA&E - CNS&M - CSS&SB in Color" by Lloyd.
@@jackbookwalter9926 We did the same. I wish I would have kept them.
@@trainliker100 That's an extensive list. I'm pleased to say I own many of them.
Also available are 'Dispatches' from the Shore Line Interurban Historical Society:
Dispatch No. 4, The Road of Service - Perspectives on the North Shore Line. (From your list)
Dispatch No. 7, A Transportation Miracle, covering the transportation side of the 28th International Eucharistic Congress of 1928.
One of the Electroliners is on display and is being restored at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL. The Electroliner at IRM still has some of the Libertyliner decorative details inside the train cars.
Both still existing is so cool. One unrestored as liberty liner in last condition, one restored to like new
Yes, and it's in beautiful condition cosmetically! They're still working on electrical/mechanical issues, I think in the traction motors, so they don't operate it. They're hoping to have it operable within a few years though. I'm really looking forward to that day!
@@genevarailfan3909 : I’m looking forward to the day it is fully operational, too.
The work they’ve done so far, especially in the bar / lounge car is amazing. I know they are planning to remove all of the Libertyliner decorations as part of restoration.
@@GeorgeBobeck That's good to hear! I haven't had the privilege of seeing the interior yet.
This is a really amazing video! My great grandfather was a driver for several north shore trains including the electro-liner. Really amazing to see videos still being made about topics two of my grandparents dedicated their life too. Thank you!
Dude, you're about as close to watching WTTW as you can get. Love the content. Big shout out from Libertyville!
I was born in Milwaukee in 1968, so I never had the chance to ride the North Shore Line, but my mom and grandparents talked about it fondly. When my mom was a child, my grandparents didn't have a car, so they used the street cars and busses to get around. Taking the North Shore Line to Chicago was a big treat for them! I am sure it was that way for many people! Thanks for sharing this!
The NSL streetcars in Milwaukee rivaled that of the city cars as their fare was only a nickel.
My mom is 95 and still remembers the North Shore. We’re from Milwaukee, and she would ride it to Marshall Fields in the Loop, her favorite store. I was six months old when the North Shore shut down. 😢
@@toddinde Is your Mom still alive?
To be a bit pedantic: Technically, it wasn't an "L" train but rather an interurban that ran on somebody else's elevated tracks on part of its route.
I remember as a kid (when dirt was young) bicycling from Chicago to Wisconsin. There was a section along a railroad right-of-way paved for bikes and pedestrians.. I don't remember if it was the North Shore or by the Chicago and Northwestern tracks, but I do remember that it was really nice having not only the elevation grade, but bridges over major streets that made it really nice....
Yes! The green bay bike trail! It was, as the name implies, contiguously connected to green bay. Rode that bike trail from Evanston, many times while in college.
Rode the north shore line trains to the northern suburbs when we lived in Chicago. Before that, my mom used to take my brother and me from Libertyville into Chicago when we were kids, on the Milwaukee Road. I sometimes took the same line from Northwest Chicago to visit my folks, after I graduation, took the Skokie Swift from Chicago to work in Evanston.
I remember all those locomotives and coaches, the scenery and the station stop names.
In 2011, Wisconsin governor Scott Walker nixed the high-speed rail connection (when the project
was well underway), connecting Madison to Milwaukee, which would have made a Madison to downtown Chicago route possible. The rights of way for laying track (some track remained) were still available. But no. Instead, the taxpayers of Wisconsin had to pay to settle a lawsuit brought by the company who was already producing coaches for that train line. If you wonder why the US does not have a decent railroad transportation system, look no further than politics and the fossil fuel lobby.
We kids ice skated at the ice rink at the old Mundelein train station, in the early '60's.
Everyone we knew used El's and trains regularly in the 50's, 60's and 70's, even if they had cars. My friends and I were proficient at getting around all of Chicago via El's and subways with facility, when we were teenagers. Train travel was a way of middle class life.
@@merlin8537 How do we get back to those times? With better transit, there is little need for cars. As a bicyclist and transit rider, driving is something I don't need to do nor want to.
I live near the abandoned portion of the Skokie valley route...it's a shame it's gone
I would’ve loved to see all the old Chicago railroads and metro lines. They’re so trimmed down now.
I used to be obsessed with this railroad. I have some memorabilia as well as an entire detailed track map with each switch, crossover, and station on it
I would like to see that track map.
@@iwouldliketoorderanumber1b79 it’s online somewhere, but it’s a CERA bulletin I believe
Wow this is the first ever CZcams video I’ve watched that mentioned the town I grew up in. Had to rewind and watch again. I wish these rails were still here
You and thousands of others like us also wish the NSL had survived.
My Grandfather worked for the North Shore line from the 30's to the 50's. There was part of the North Shore line that ran up to Waukegan. My Aunt used to hop on the North Shore Line to go to High School. Highland Park High School was called Shields Township HS then as there was no Lake Forest HS yet. Kids use to take the line from Lake Bluff all the way to Highland Park. Could use the line now to avoid traffic on 176. The walking paths near 176 and alongside the present RR was that location. Yes I am older in my 70's.
My girlfriend and I took a ride on a restored railroad line from Utica, NY to Old Forge, NY. From there we boarded a boat for a tour of The Chain of Lakes taking in the scenery as we were moving with the least bit of concern about where the vehicles were traveling. We traveled over 200 miles that day and when we were done was not the least bit fatigued from traveling.
No one can say that after traveling 200 miles in an automobile.
People nowadays have no idea what they are missing in travel.
I lived in Utica from September of 1984 til February of 1991 then the late 1970’s & early 1980’s. You’re not lying about the scenery either !!!
Beautiful country, the Adirondacks. it would sure be nice if the train still ran to Lake Placid from Utica. When I was a kid, we camped at Saranac Lake and the fishing was amazing! One little lake after another, my best camping trip ever when I was 14.
@lawrencelewis
At the time there were plans to extend it to Lake Placid and then connect with Amtrak in Saratoga to make a loop down to the Tri-Cities, then West back to Utica.
But, with all good plans, it takes time and money and as far as I know the project has neither.
The weather and resulting airline debacle over the holidays caused us to drive back to the east coast from Chicago. The driving wasn't fun, but offers advantages over flying. A train trip would combine the best of both worlds!
I grew up in Beach Park just Noth of the Waukegan City limits. Our home was 2 blocks away from the RR crossing at Holdridge Road and my Grandparents home on Orchard Road backed right up to the rail right-of-way, three houses away from the crossing.
Just south of the rail intersection was a whistle stop for passengers that went away when the Chicago and Northwestern Railway changed service. Then you had to go downtown Waukegan to catch the train.
My best friend and I took the CN&W to Chicago switching to the EL in Chicago which had a stop right across the street from Wrigley Field. We were die-hard Cub fans!
Great memories inspired by this You Tube presentation.
I spent my entire childhood collecting fragments of the Skokie Valley route, as it ran through my backyard..
I had one of the headlamps rescued from a dismantled North Shore train as an outdoor light for many years.
My father, a Chicago native, used to ride these rails almost daily as a commuter for college and later for work in the Milwaukee area.
I also remember seeing many of the cars sidelined, rotting, waiting for whatever their ultimate fate would be..
I grew up in Waukegan, Il and the line ran right behind our house. Still remember those funny looking cars. I lived there from 1950 thru 1965. They were running strong when I was young, but don't remember when they quit running.
As a person born and raised in Milwaukee, but now living in Chicago, this breaks my heart. We're going to have to spend a billion to reconstruct something that already existed.
There is nothing preventing an enterprising businessman from buying the right of ways and resurrecting the line. But no one will because it’s unprofitable. From a public benefit perspective, an Amtrak line already serves Milwaukee and Chicago. The low ridership number suggest that this train is heavily subsidized and couldn’t be self supporting without fate increases the existing riders would balk paying for.
@@matapan08 Roads, ports, and airports are publicly subsidized. I'm not sure why rail gets treated like something separate in terms of transportation infrastructure beyond weird politics.
The public benefit is reducing the costs of further tax dollars spent on I-94 road expansion and the environmental impact more cars create.
The low ridership number was before the growth of cities such as Kenosha and Gurnee as large business centers. The Hiawatha line is a nearly $50 road trip with only 2 stops in Illinois and 2 stops in Wisconsin. Lightrail doesn't make money from those traveling from points A to B, they make money from those traveling from points B and C.
@@heartbreak25 I would agree with you there is a public benefit, IF people actually collectively decided to change their habits. As much as people become aware of the environmental impact they have driving cars, the split second decision daily is to continue doing the same thing. Since people are reluctant to part ways with their cars, government promotes electric vehicles and other surrogates.
The cost of riding the train pales in comparison to the cost of driving when you consider not the single person scenario, but the family scenario. For a family of four, the cost of driving remains relatively the same, where the train cost quadruples.
For would be transit proponents, I'd kindly suggest focusing on the economics and the convenience of adopting transit. The technology now exists to actually make point to point travel using transit and shared rides almost as convenient as driving. Partnerships between rideshares and Metra or Amtrak would be a good starting point for investigation and experimentation. Having self driving shared vehicles that can load and unload swiftly off rail flatbed cars might be another avenue. But you also need a fierce legal team to help you untangle the mesh of antiquated regulations and install legal bulwarks to keep liability costs low for a new mode of public transit that is affordable.
@@matapan08 Yeah, I'm not a public transit advocate. I was responding to your initial question about costs and social good. Your response is mostly hypothetical to which I cannot respond. Flatbed rail already exists as a car ferry which also existed between Milwaukee and Chicago. The economies of scale do not work.
Just like adding more cars to the road when 80% of our goods are moved by truck is not wise since delays from traffic congestion and accidents will further slow down our economy. Every study shows that widening lanes does not reduce congestion, so adding more cars to already congested roads won't solve the problem.
@@heartbreak25 Finding a viable alternative to driving that is compelling enough for people to make the choice to adopt transit is largely hypothetical and will require experimentation.
In reading your response, perhaps one solution might be to encourage more freight to be moved by train as opposed to trucks. My hunch is that there is a logistical advantage in moving freight by trucks that can't be matched moving freight from one center to the next and then finding a suitable transfer from the intermediate center to the destination center quick enough.
My favourite railfan story from "TRAINS" magazine was from Jan. 1993 (first issue of redesign). It was the personal story of the man who inadvertently become the very last passenger carried on the North Shore in 1963. A classic tale of railfan obsession overcoming all the obstacles along the way.
So cool to see.so sad it was all lost.
If you like trains and don't want to see more trains stop running, I'd recommend taking them as often as possible and encourage others to adopt transit too.
It's amazing to know the L did allow other trains to use it's right of way all because at one point it was actually connected to the larger rail network
Love the videos of Chicago.
We love them also :)
I remember my grandparents, who lived in Milwaukee, came to visit us when we lived in Chicago using this train in the early 50,s.
Interesting how back then an elevated train to Milwaukee could survive and today with the population 3 times what it was then (Milwaukee and Chicago are practically connected now with towns and businesses along the shore of Lake Michigan) does not have enough ridership to be upgraded to a high speed train.
Amtrak has multiple daily runs between downtown Milwaukee and Chicago, but it's definitely not as convenient as connecting to the L tracks and has way less stops.
Imagine if cars did not exist and your only way to get around was by walking, cycling or taking the interurban. Now look at how you have more people today, but they all have access to cars and drive everywhere. The convenience of cars is king. Unless people are willing to give up their love of single occupancy vehicles the pipe dream of the interurban remains just that - a romantic pipe dream.
The North Shore actually ran through the Nash property in Kenosha. Large sections of the right-of-way in Wisconsin is now bike trails
Forthose pining for the good old days of the Interurban, you’ll have a fight with the bicycle lobby who want rails to trail but not the other way around. Good luck!
@@matapan08 there should be no reason you can't have both.
@@mpetersen6 Transportation Alliance is pro-rail (Metra, cta, etc.), pro-pedestrian, and pro-bicyclist. There are enough drivers already. Too many, in fact. Let's fight them together! 😃
In general, it's a shame we don't use trains like we once did! It's more more pleasant than riding in an airplane nowadays!
Or a car. More room, you can stand up and walk around, you can take a nap, you can do activities that require your eyes. Shame so few people can ride the train to commute anymore because we tore them up to make room for left turn lanes and street parking.
You can take an Amtrak train today to make the same trip. It’s just a personal decision. People would not fly from Milwaukee to Chicago because it’s too cumbersome to go through the airport and screening for a 90 minute car, bus or train trip. Whether or not you take the train probably has more to do with economics and convenience of getting to your end points than it does with anything else. Generally it’s still far more convenient to drive than to transfer to a bus or another train or to walk to your destination unless it’s in downtown Chicago.
If we could somehow magically wave a wand and get rid of the suburbs and concentrate more people living in urban centers, perhaps that might be possible. But that’s not what’s happening. In fact with the advent of remote work, there is less incentive to live in dense high priced urban centers with soaring crime rates and city governments with very questionable priorities. More people are voting with their dollars and migrating to lower priced areas and further killing the idea of affordable public transit.
@@matapan08 if people don't want to live in the dense urban centers, why are the prices so high and why is there so much new construction?
Also, do you have numbers on those "soaring" crime rates in expensive cities specifically, like Boston, New York, DC, or Chicago? Crime rates, not total numbers, because the large population means the numbers will be higher by default
There are far more people who now live in the suburbs compared to the time before cars overtook trains as the primary mode of point to point transport. The trend to move back into urban centers that has happened over the past few years is now hitting the reality of city councils in large urban cities unwilling or unable to deal
With homelessness in a truly responsible manner. The crime rate in cities like Chicago, SF, Seattle and other cities has changed the urban landscape significantly. Many people are fleeing these urban centers for the suburbs again, a haven for safety, stability and responsible governing.
Thank you for making this video
Vanished lines are a fascinating bit of local history. Close to where I live in Edinburgh I often cross an exit ramp for a busy expressway that is clearly an old 1930s style iron footbridge from a railway - the expressway for cars now follows the line of a vanished railway that ran right into what is now one of the largest, poshest hotels in the city, near the Castle.Nearby, hidden by foliage, you can see an old platform still there too, close to a modern bus stop. I love these little ghosts of a city's past.
There used to be the funeral trains that would take both bodies and mourners from inside the city of Chicago to the cemeteries in the outer neighborhoods or the suburbs, especially ones like Forest Park, where the cemeteries were so numerous that the dead outnumbered the living. The rail lines were elevated, so they added elevators at the cemeteries’ rail stops to get the casket from the train level to street level.
@@kathyastrom1315 Fascinating - there was an early "necropolis railway" in London, late 1800s to early 1900s, when they started making those large "garden cemeteries" outside the city (because of lack of space), so regular service to carry coffins plus mourners. Being Victorian idea, of course they had first and second class, because obviously the rich couldn't mix with the poorer even in death!
Londons Necropolis Railway ran from Waterloo to Brookwood Cemetary. Opened in 1854.
I think the Germans closed it.
We currently have an Amtrak route called the Hiawatha that takes 8 trips daily. But this would be way easier
I am not sure if there was a special train, or still regular service for the holidays in operation from Milwaukee to Chicago, but as a kid (I think the year was 1962) we took the train from Downtown Milwaukee (The old Schroeder--now HILTON--Hotel) directly to Marshall Fields (it stopped on the elevated portion there, and you walked down the stairs to the Wabash entrance). I think it took less than 2 hours. But it was an all day excursion. Early morning train to get there, late evening to return in the dark. WE HAD TO SEE THE DECORATED STORE WINDOWS, and my mother and aunt had to put up with two fidgetily kids!
As an older longtime Chicagoan, we visited State St. at Christmas every year in the early 60s....on what's now called the Blue Line. At that time the end of the line was at Logan Sq., by the "big eagle". My 5 siblings and me finally took mom out to eat under the tree at Marshall Fields in the 70s, as we couldn't afford it growing up.
The Hiawatha still runs between Milwaukee and Chicago several times daily.
@@cathyt502 The Walnut Room restaurant at Fields was always a big event for us at Christmastime after seeing the windows! Often, the line was just too long so we would go for a hot fudge sundae at the ice cream parlor instead.
@@dave1956 My point was when we took in in the 1960s if it (The North Shore line) always went to Marshall Fields or not. The Hiawatha dumps you off what...10 blocks away from where it used to go.
@@kathyastrom1315 I still have a few paper and plastic M.F. shopping bags :) ... and glass slipper ornaments still in the box. I shopped there often during the 90s as I worked downtown.
Thanks for this well done and very informative video. We live 4 hours west of Chicago and these videos are giving me a real understanding of our nearest big city.
I really appreciate that you pronounce Milwaukee, Racine, and Wisconsin the way we do in Wisconsin
I live near the Skokie valley line north of Dempster and it really is just fragments of tracks engulfed in shrubbery, the kids just know it as “the tracks” and almost nobody knows nowadays what the tracks were used for. There are still abandoned bridges with rail on them going over the Skokie river and the towers that hold the electric lines still stand except they are rusted and withering away. So to most new people around here, it’s just some old abandoned tracks.
15:14 Drew Jacksich is one of the greatest railroad photographers. Most of his work was from California, but he had several trips to Colorado and the east coast.
I appreciate that you recognized the L is silent in Milwaukee 🧀
Usually, only people actually from Milwaukee know that. They pronounce as Ma-WAH-kee. I know. Born and raised in West Allis, 87th and Greenfield!
I was born in Milwaukee, and am a lifelong Wisconsin resident. I've never lived more than 60 minutes away from Milwaukee, have always stayed close to home, but hate living in the city. I can't believe this is the first time I've ever heard of this L ride straight into Milwaukee. That totally blows my mind. You have to work pretty hard to tell me something that I don't already know, so kudos to you! I also really enjoyed your commentary about the total degradation of dignity, decency, and decorum in public society. I would have loved to live in the age when people dressed up to take a train or an airplane. Now people wear their pajamas to Walmart, tell obscenities to people they don't know, and generally act like slobs. It's really sad.
I always wondered why there was no North shore train while a South shore exists.
Great video! Please do more abandoned subway and El lines in Boston, New York City, and Chicago!
Trains from CNSM ended up as 'Liberty Liners' running from Upper Darby to Norristown Southeastern Pennsylvania.
I got to ride the Liberty Liners on SEPTA for a few years when I worked in the area where they ran. They were the nicest cars on that line and did use the lounge car to serve drinks and snacks. I celebrated my 21st birthday by having my first legal alcoholic drink aboard one of the Liberty Liners. I could only imagine how nice they were to ride all the way from Chicago to Milwaukee.
Get yourself an "Electroburger" from the grill/tavern car on the "Electroliner"!!!
The LibertyLiner at the Rockhill trolley museum runs and it comes out for members day and the fall spectacular every year.
I am planning on going to the Illinois Railway Museum in the spring of next year, so I could possibly see the South Shore Line train set at the museum.
Indeed. You'll enjoy it. It's a terrific museum. The SSL is well represented - as is the CNS&M and CA&E. All are from the Samuel Insull empire.
@@douglasjackson5007 Yeah. I never been to the Illinois Railway Museum before. So this is going to be my first time, to visit it. It’s America’s largest railroad museum, even the whole world. The museum has a lot equipment. For example, J. Neils Lumber Co. Shay #5, CNW SD40-2 6847, Illinois Central 201, Frisco 1630, Santa Fe 2903, and more other old railroad equipment.
@@nathancorcoran5347 They even have a pair of New York City cars. It's always amusing to see cars I used to ride here operating out on a Midwest museum.
@@nathancorcoran5347 You're sure to enjoy it. I suggest you try to visit on one of their special weekends, like Diesel Days, Steam Days, Interurban Days, etc., depending on your core interest.
People like you are in high demand as you save the history of places that most people don't care about!! It is the preservation of historical data, moments, nuances that plays an invaluable role in the future!!
Did I ask?
Thanks for the interesting North Shore Line and Electroliner history.
Wow, I traveled the Eden's for many years and now live off Lake Cook Rd. Very interesting video! More More!!!
My grandfather was an engineer aboard the North Shore LIne. Near his home in south Milwaukee, he would toot the horn which was a signal to my grandmother to get supper going. Thank you for the video. Brings back many good memories.
What a grace in those years.
I took one of the last, if not THE last trip, on the North Shore from Wrigley Field, in Chicago, to downtown Milwaukee (and back). WHY we got rid of it is beyond me. ALSO..many such "interurbans" we removed from service in years past, their rail beds turned into bike trails. Would be great to have them all back.
Ridership too low. Cost of maintenance and equipment upgrades and replacement too high. And way too little freight service to help. Pretty much the story of most interurbans except for the South Shore Line (which uses electric for commuting, diesel for freight).
With the price of gasoline what it is, I think more and more people think like you. Maybe something will happen?
@@lawrencelewis2592 Some things HAVE happened. But in all cases, it is expensive, ranging to really expensive. Especially when they have to claw back right of way that was almost given away decades ago.
@@trainliker100 That is true- Los Angeles built a light rail line to Long Beach on the track bed of the old Pacific Electric. The Croydon tram in London was built on abandoned freight lines but still has street running so it can be done. All it takes is the will and money, lots of money.
@@lawrencelewis2592 AND ridership. That is why such things are only viable, and then sometimes just barely, in at least fairly dense corridors. At least in the U.S. where people relish the convenience (if you can call it that) of their cars. Some efforts are worthless, like California's "high speed" train which will be a nearly total waste of money.
I love your videos.
I always wondered why you could see a clear path for a line extension on the skokie swift dempster stop, now I see it was a previous set of additional track. I’m hoping at some point that right of way is reused to extend the skokie swift
According to the CTA, they did a study to see if this was worthwhile to extend the Skokie Swift.
That was in the early 2010's. The official reason for why they didn't go forward with this is that they have a huge backlog of maintenance work that takes higher priority, budget-wise that they need to focus on.
Back in the day, you could travel by trolley car from Amsterdam, NY to any of the local towns and to the cities of Schenectady and Albany.
In fact some of the tracks become visible when the asphalt deteriorates or ripped up by snowplows.
By local towns, do you mean local to Chicago or Amsterdam? I'm curious, as I live in Chicago and am originally from Schenectady.
Actually, both. I see a lot of kit houses in Amsterdam, Schenectady, Albany and the surrounding areas, albeit mostly in populated areas. Transportation was expensive in those days and most everything was delivered by train, then off loaded onto local delivery carts by horse or truck. There was no interstate system yet or long haul trucks or trucking system in place then.
The Midwest was a popular place to sell kit houses and they are plentiful in neighborhoods built in the 1920's and 1930's.
Sears sold 170,000 kit houses between 1907-1940!!!
@@freetolook3727 This Old House has said Sears homes are well-constructed. I'd consider buying one.
Great video. Automobiles are the death of sufficient public transit. As a daily rider of CTA that leaves the city to work, this sounds incredible. Can't put a price on the convenience of getting anywhere in the world from downtown via CTA. In all it's faults, it's the riders responsibility to be treat CTA cars like cars, not sleeping cars, smoking cars, or temporary bnbs. There's only so many people who can watch over the insanity.
No it was General Motors and their diesel buses.
@@cyrilhudak4568 All GM did was approach cities with worn out electric systems and opened their catalogs. Yes, there was a conspiricy but back then no one cared.
@@lawrencelewis2592 GM and their proxies lobbied local governments to regulate fares of the electric rail lines. Then sued the rail lines to prevent them from selling electricity to the public to subsidize their infrastructure costs. At that time, any city with a population of 100,000 had an intercity rail system. Yes it was a conspiracy.
@@cyrilhudak4568 But, like I said, no one cared. Everyone wanted a big new car with tail fins and a split-level house in the suburbs which electric transit lines didn't serve anyway. In the post-war era, people were escaping from the cities and everyone that did, didn't care what happened to the cities. it's why Robert Moses was the big hero, but that's another discussion altogether.
@@lawrencelewis2592 We sure care now, don't we? With diesel fuel at $5/G electrified public transit looks pretty good.
you can still take a train from down town Milwaukee to Chicago and back again. I do it frequently.
I was born and raised in Waukegan in the 1970's. Us teens used to use the old right of way for the north shore line as a way to sneak to Zion Illinois. Good times
Amazing video Ryan, I am an Evanstonian and I love learning about the old trains lost to time
…and shifting patterns of living.
Great story, very interesting! What a beauties are these streamliners! Thnx for the upload.
Greetings from Rotterdam, the Netherlands
5:49... this was not the Roosevelt terminal location. The Roosevelt location is where the green/orange line is now. The picture shows the IC/South Shore Line
Very good video, but I feel like there's a scene missing. At 19:46 it jumps from the 1955 abandonment of the Shore Line straight to the 1964 formation of the Skokie Swift with no mention of the final years of Skokie Valley and Chicago-Milwaukee service that ended in January 1963.
I got to ride the electroliner at irm in the 90s before the traction motor crapped out. But it looks like it should run soon again finally
I used to take the South Shore to Indiana when I was a kid but I never knew there was a North Shore.
That line from Chicago to Milwaukee would make serious money these days.
Great job. My grandfather worked for the North Shore Line till the end. I have some old tickets and some operation memos. My dad took me to Irm in union as little kid and last summer I took my daughter to pass down the history.
Trains are way cool! 🚆🤷🏻♂️😃
its cool to see people actually talking/posting videos on wisconsin railways
Such a shame the North Shore is gone really would of been awesome if it would of been a part of Metra like the IC/Metra electric line another interurban line.
At 12:45, that is the southern approach to the Sydney Harbour Bridge toward the end of construction. It's a long way from Chicago.
Thank you SO much for this video! I'm no historian nor am I a major train fan, but after visiting the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, Illinois (about 55 miles northwest of Chicago and ironically, completely NON-accessible by either METRA commuter rail or AMTRAK trains) and seeing the North Shore locomotives and that Gold Coast Limited car in all of its dusty but still luxurious state, I've always wanted to know more about the NSL.
And, we're in perfect agreement with the point you've made from 7:01 - 7:24, but we must remember that people have changed over the years as the railroad industry has evolved. You're not allowed to smoke, litter, eat, drink or play loud music on Chicago Transit Authority El trains yet people do all of those things plus lay down across the benches for sleep and you can imagine what else. Also, the whole "if you pay more, you get more" attitude Amtrak has always embraced means all of that luxury service is yours, for an astronomically high fare when compared to interurbans like the South Shore Line. (which is still in operation!) Again, I thank you for this report; it truly meant a lot to me! 🐰!
we built the railroads to accomplish travel that couldn't be done by early cars. When the cars proliferated we got rid of the railroads and tore up the tracks for more lanes and rails to trails. Now the highways are jammed and commuting is a nightmare in many large and small metropolitan areas. We don't have the rails anymore.
And that's a good thing of course.
There are rails that serve the Northwest suburbs, and there's nothing preventing people from adopting transit, except the will to do it. From the collective response of people declining to adopt transit, they're okay with the jammed highways.
BTW, this was a great ride. I did it 2 or 3 times.
Living in Kenosha I can say I really wish that this connection to Milwaukee was a thing.
Remember when they wanted to start a service from Kenosha to Milwaukee using the C&NW right of way.
Your wish already exists. If you're good with a 19 minute drive to the Sturtevant station, Amtrak serves Milwaukee and Chicago via the Hiawatha line, 6-7 times a day
@@matapan08
Actually I can take Metra from Kenosha into Chigago. Only it runs as a local making every single stop.
@@mpetersen6 Yes, the UP-N provides commuter service. Wasn't this what people liked about Interurbans?
@@matapan08 What if you don't want to drive there?
Its sad coming across these former tram/light rail and railway lines/routes that used to serve cities and parts of countries in modern day as many of them don't even leave a mark in modern day like when tracks are left to rot, or get lifted, or when the lines in roads are removed and paved over so many times that you can't even tell (even in some cases where the lines where just paved over) that there was a tram or rail line there.
For example, there used to be an electric railway in my city that provided freight and passenger transport, as well as rail lines that served the factories around town even going up to the north end. Now almost all of that is so far gone that without any knowledge of that stuff, you'd never know it even existed in Oshawa, Ontario.
Thank you for the video. I am a rail-fan, and enjoy most things rail road.
Such an amazing amount of info! Thank you 💟
I'm fairly certain I grew up near a portion of the old Skokie Valley Line. There's a single track that was behind my old elementary school - now abandoned and overgrown. When I was in school there, I only ever saw one train go on those tracks - a southbound five-car freight train around 8 p.m. I've been doing my best to learn more about that track and its history. Thank you for the video!
You definitely need to do a video about Samuel Insull.
That would be interesting. Based in Chicago, Insull was an electric utility tycoon whose empire expanded to include a number of electric railroads that his electric companies would then sell it's power to.
@@douglasjackson5007 A fair number of electric utilities got their start as spinoffs of streetcar companies (since they often had to generate their own traction power in their early years). Supposedly changes in SEC rules prohibited these utilities (which mosrly remained profitable) from subsidizing the street railway companies that birthed them when the former fell upon hard times. I'm not certain of the source of the info, though.
Really miss the convenience of mass transit.
(1) As one of your viewers noted, traveling inter-city by train was a pleasure AND you traveled from the center of one city to the city center of
your destination. Compare that to to the AGONY of having to travel by plane: endless lines, endless security check-points, HOURS stuck @ 35,000 feet above the ground, all the while listening to a chorus of yowling toddlers.
(2) Also, the network of FREQUENT
local trolleys and buses made it easy and convenient to travel from outside a city center to the middle of town WITHOUT having to buy a car and then having to pay for the car's gasoline, insurance, upkeep, etc.
Interesting, that "North Shore" logo strongly resembles the "South Shore" logo that goes into Indiana. I haven't rode the South Shore line about 2010, when I'd ride out to GI
The South Shore and North Shore were both owned by Samuel Insull and his business empire. They were very mush sister railroads. Indiana stepped in to save the SSL, while Illinois and Wisconsin didn’t for the NSL.
@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries Insull's empire also included the Chicago Aurora and Elgin - The Sunset Route - that ran west of the Loop until all operations ceased in 1959.
Amazing video. I learned quite a bit. Your research and narration are excellent! Thank you for creating, uploading and sharing!! 😊🚅
I used to do field work about a quarter mile from the track. I didn't have a watch so I'd keep track of the time by the passing of the trains every half hour.
Grew up in Chicago, had family in Milwaukee, rode the Electroliners many times, and although they were fast and modern, the ride was very bouncy. I suppose the cars were too light for those speeds -- it was a joke in our family, how you'd be thrown around on the Electroliner. -- charlie, sacramento CA. Keep up the good work!
Hello, I grew up in Milwaukee I lives on south 7th street. and Layton Ave.The next street over was 6th right across the street was a set of train tracks up on a hill. Over Layton was a bridge I asume this was the Chicago Milwaukee L train. I was still living on 7th street when the tracks and bridge was torn down. Yesterday on CZcams I watch It's History a show telling about the history of the L traIn . I lived on 7th street from 1954 to 1968 Tom
Many times, in our modern society, we are moving BACKWARDS technically, rather than forward! This is sad!
How are we moving backward technically? Just curious.
I went to Navy boot camp and Radarman "A" school at Great Lakes from late 1969 to early 1973. I used to regularly take a train from Chicago to Milwaukee and back on the weekends...
The Illinois Railroad Museum in Union Illinois. Has a lot of artifacts, equipment, and cars / motive power front the L and North Shore lines.
South Shore Line & North Shore Line were like brothers that got separated forever
Its like losing both of your brothers and realizing that you are the only one left
My Dad remembers these trains, being as he grew up in 'Niles Center'.
The train became popular because gasoline [war time] was severely rationed.
amazing how 100 years ago, we had a better public transportation network than today?
I live in Milwaukee, and continue to be SO ANNOYED that the only train from mke to chi is the Amtrak Hiawatha line.
Why though? It’s extremely convenient
@@CynicalCharlatan88 bc I know what we could have if we invested in high speed rail
@@mollsbot fair enough, I just moved out here from out west where trains aren’t a thing but I would say the hop is something that makes no sense to me lol
You are forgetting the Empire Builder.
There are buses, which cost less. Or you can drive. The Hiawatha is never packed on any given day. If there was another service available, the ridership for Amtrak or the other line would not justify its existence,.
another great video
Some of your photos don't make sense - like the LMS (London Midland Scotland RWY) coach pictured at the 5:00 minute mark. Aside from a few other minor issues, an overall very good presentation. I grew up with the North Shore Line in Waukegan. My mother had a cousin that worked at Edison Court - a really nice fella. I am blessed with many fond memories of this terrific railroad. I miss it dearly - even to this day.
It's crazy that there isn't a frequent service train between Chicago and Milwaukee.
There is. It’s called Amtrak Hiawatha. There’s also Greyhound that is cheaper.
@@matapan08 the Hiawatha gets delayed by Frieght trains
@@matapan08 the Hiawatha gets delayed by Freight trains
@@matapan08 the Hiawatha gets delayed by Freight trains
Outstanding video!
Being a huge railfan, I'd just love to see you do a video on the rise and fall (beginning with them shutting down their Western Extension) of the Chicago, Milwaukee, St Pau & Pacific Railroad, "Milwaukee Road' and a video of the same on Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad, "Rock Island" would be great as well!
More trains to the people! ✊🏻😉
Again, outstanding work! 👍🏻👌🏻👏🏻
I just want to congratulate you on correctly pronouncing Mundelein.
Also, I appreciate all of the pictures from the Illinois Railroad Museum.
My dad worked for the GB&W. More commonly known as the Green Bay and Western, or Grab Your Bags and Walk. It ran from Green Bay to Chicago. My dad was a break man and we got to ride the trains often. I really don’t remember much because I was a baby.
Revive this line yesterday! NIMBY's are awefully quiet when its a highway expansion which cuts through urban communities, so I say we do whats best for both urban and rural and build more train lines.