WW2 Maneuver Rules: Bickering & arguing over 'oo killed 'oo.
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- The previous video which talked of the GHQ Maneuvers of 1940/41 sparked the question of "Just how does one determine who wins a battle in a wargame anyway?". This video is set to answer that question, at least at the 'field' level.
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This post made me think of an exercise during my infantry AIT. We were playing Army’s version of laser tag using MILES equipment. An earbud mounted on your helmet would start shrieking when one of your sensors was hit by a laser. Only the Drill Sergeants could turn it off. The noise was horrible. I was supposed to be laying down a base of fire for a group of guys I hated. I realized no one would ever know if I lit them up. So I did. 37 years later I still smile every time I remember the five of them clutching their helmets one right after the other.
Got away clean with that one lol.
In the guard, we humped all night through the woods in the pitch dark as Opfor. Back then, there weren't enough NVG to go around and if you did wear them while walking, your vision was so lacking in depth that you'd run into trees and might even walk off a ridge as had happened. While crossing a clearing, we got ambushed. I hit the deck and returned fire only to find the batteries had fallen out of the MILES transmitter! What a POS that stuff was.
It wasn't able to detect friendly fire? Ahaah
Never used that. The benefit of blanks is that the gas outflow is enough to let the other guy know they've been shot (in room clearing).
@@DIEGhostfish old versions didn't have coded beams, so a rifle could take out a tank.
Then they fixed *that* issue, but as far as I know they never did implement a friendly fire recognition/ignoring function.
That sticks as grenade thing sounds a lot like what my dad once had to do when he was in the British army back in the 60s & 70s.
An entire regiment without vehicles, but the exercise had to go ahead anyway. It devolved into things like men being ordered to run around making engine noises, shouting "beep jeep I'm a jeep" and "clank clank I'm a tank bangbangbang you're dead" etc.
My god....the british army invented invisible combat vehicals in the 60s. They are unbeatable.
im genuinely disturbed that in armies even now probably still do this, im also laughing my ass off can you imagine some DI running around screaming "IM A TANK BLAM YOU ARE DEAD PRIVATE" XD
What I take from this is that it require less supply and manpower to conduct actual battle, than to play a wargame.
In the latter the manpower usually survives though, undoubtedly an advantage
@@sthenzel Keyword: Usually. It was the US army after all.
Depends, in the Germany Army used to practice using cardboard “tanks” in some training exercises. The US Army never seemed to have gone to that stage during the interwar years.
@@shaider1982 they did though. The army wasn’t buying tanks, so to simulate large scale armor units they just had cars that were labeled as tanks.
The film used to illustrate "BRIDGE UMPIRES" is a Swedish film from the late 70s called "Repmånad" depicting a platoon of conscripts doing refreshing training, usually rather grown up men, who quickly degraded to toddlers in behaviour, rather funny as almost all Swedish men did this until the 90s between 4 to 12 years intervals.
It reminded me of an old (west) german joke:
NATO maneuver in West Germany in the 70s. A bridge over a small river has a sign saying "bridge blown" next to it.
A british platoon arrives at the bridge, reads the sign, assesses the situation and wades across.
An american platoon arrives a bit later. Reads the sign, assesses the situation, and crosses with the help of ropes.
Then a german platoon arrives. Reads the sign, forms a huddle, and then marches across the bridge. With the first and last soldier in the group holding up signs reading "we're swimming".
A joke from my WW2 veteran dad that relates to this.
Squad of troops in a landing craft, ready to hit a beach. One young squaddie calls out to his sarge, "Sarge, I've lost me ammunition!"
"Bloody heck! Now is not the time. Alright, Watkins, when you hit the beach, point your gun an' yell 'BANG!' That might fool 'em long enough for me to get you more ammo!"
And thus, the troops hit the beach and, among all the shooting and noise, Pte. Watkins is pointing his rifle at the enemy Germans and shouting "BANG! BANG!"
Suddenly, an unarmed German stands up and starts walking towards the hapless soldier. Completely ignoring Watkin's desperate "BANG! BANG!", he walks up to him punches him down then starts jumping up and down on him, yelling "TANK! TANK! TANK!"
😁
This is just a piece of lore from a table top game but this video encapsulates that situation perfectly
czcams.com/video/kNjUiDpLvlQ/video.html
Love the videos great job keep it up! Just I quick question. I love the Renault FT one of my favorite tanks(which gets a lot of laughs from friends of mine who are also military history buffs) largely because it is a forward thinking design and holds up to its contemporaries very well, that being said is there a particular say pre ww2 tank that you have an interest in? Sorry for being long winded lol
Wish it were true lol!
IF IT AIN'T WORKIN, YUR NOT BEIN' ORKY ENUFF!
Things we do for huge… tracts of land….
TRACTS OF...LAND !!!!!!
Like build castles in swamps. Then when that one sinks into the swamp we build another one.
@@huasohvac That second castle also sinks into a swamp. Third will burn down, fall off and then sink into swamp. Fourth stays up because there is too much sunken castle in a swamp.
"Oh Newt.... BAD Newt! Brave Sir Knight, I believe I deserve a spanking!"🤣😂 Yes, I know, totally different scene, but, MY GOD what a great, quotable Movie!
"Run Away, Run Away'
"You must cut down the Mightiest Tree in the Forest with.....A HERRING!"🤣
The things we do, for Ben shapiro’s sister’s milkers
Interwar RAF flour bombs tended to lie in stores for years and set into a solid chunk capable of penetrating corrugated iron. Or people, which was thought to not be a good thing: even if they were the common soldiery. The solid 25lb practice bombs could well have penetrated some of the thinner tank armour of the day.
"Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. We are here today to witness the union of two young people in the joyful bond of holy wedlock"
I trialed that GPS system on my tank in fall of 2000. The issue we had was the inability of the system to be able to determine small changes in elevation, so you could hide behind the top of the hill and still shoot someone. It couldn't tell if your gun was unmasked or not.
Actually, you could take a tank out with a .45, you just had to change the emitter to say it was the right weapon. I worked on a project that needed to read the codes and reset them. This was for the medics so that they could work on a virtual version of the casualty. Doing this meant that I had to simulate fire via striking the emitter as Chieftain said and that I had the software to change what the emitter sent out, which could be just about anything.
As this ran on a laptop and was closely guarded, it's unlikely anyone in the field would have access to it. I think, however, that you could possibly swap your M4 emitter for an M2 and thus have your own light weight .50 cal. Similarly, if a tank platoon somehow got an extra 120mm emitter, it could put one on the 7.62 coax. Not that I'm suggesting anybody do that, of course.
Infantry grunts with 120mm cannons firing several hundred rounds per minute each. Sounds like almost notable fraction of 'nuff dakka.
The thought and concept of a 155mm simunition is both scary and hilarious at the same time.
I honestly can't think why nobody has produced one (yet).
Tbf, arty simmunition could be based on star shells.
In effect, a light weight polymer casing containing a disco ball laser or a water solluble paint payload with an airburst fuse that triggers the disco ball laser/paint shower and a brake chute that slows the shell down to safe landing velocity.
Just pour a few buckets of paint down the barrel and fire a blank round!
@@SonsOfLorgar That sounds like a good idea, but you know someone is eventually going to steal one of those disco shells for their rave.
@@Shaun_Jones won't do them much good since the laser is not in the visible spectrum.
@@alltat Pity the poor squaddie who has to clear up the resultant mess "to the RSM's satisfaction", naturally using a toothbrush ;-)
I do really appreciate the clip from Repmånad (repetition month), one of the best Swedish comedy movie of all time! The truck helicopter scene is a classic!! This was a movie that represented the Swedish peoples experience with conscription and the follow up training (know as repmånad) of graduated conscripts that accured every few years after finishing your conscription period, to keep reserve guys "up to date" and remembering the skills they need to fight of an invader. As the movie showed the enthusiasm and dedication of the men varied vildly, sometimes with comical effects.
Herr Larsson kan inte REGLEMENTET.
And when one of the actors (Janne "Loffe" Carlsson) had died and was buried a few years ago, he had the humor of having made sure, that his casked had the same "HELIKOPTER" banner down the side.
Norway, which has «limited conscription», has Repetisjonsøvelser which is the same thing.
As an air cadet in the 70s we had a night exercise with 2 other local units after a few hours it just turned into a random brawl of kick and run (friend or foe dint seem to matter ) I can still hear the nco\officers telling us what a disgrace we were!
Military History (Not?) Visualized did a video where his guest talking about training in the Swiss army. His machine gun team laid down live fire over the heads of their buddies as they advanced. The rule was "Hold out your hand at arm's length, aim a thumb's width above their heads."
Yeah, so much for a MILES system that ignore friendly fire.
Do you know what video that was? I can't seem to find it.
As to the MG firing over head: It's nowhere nearly as dangerous as it may sound.
The MGs are fixed in elevation (or at least prevented from droping below a certain elevation) when doing this.
@@Bird_Dog00 "WWII Weapons: You're Judging Them Wrong!" czcams.com/video/vWUaDxAu8mE/video.html
@@Bird_Dog00 and usually set to be a good 6 feet overhead even if the troops panic and stand up.
@@ethanmckinney203 Thanks, mate.
@@ScottKenny1978 I'm still confused why they wouldn't use blanks? To accustom them to the sound of rounds passing nearby? That would seem to be hard at close range due to the reports of the weapons firing.
I was a SAW gunner in OSUT. One day I got the bright idea to yell out b-b-b-b-b-budget cuts for my verbally simulated bursts. The drill sergeants didn't scuff me up for it, so it became my battle cry for the rest of my career.
This may be my favorite story here!
Since we're talking Tank camo in some regard:
"This is Mr E. R. Bradshaw of Napier Court, Black Lion Road, SE 14 who cannot be seen. Could you please stand up, Mr. Bradshaw? " (Is Summarily Blown Up) "This demonstrates the value of not being seen."
Also I can imagine Mr. Nesbitt, of Harlow New Town and Mr. E.W. Lambert of Homeleigh, The Burrows, Oswestly swearing loudly at the God-gun.
Good thing those war games didn't involve men armed with bananas.
I get the giggles every time The Chieftain says "Bickering and arguing over 'oo killed 'oo.".
Prior to fielding WES, that's exactly what force-on-force exercises were like.
Millions of dollars of equipment, highly trained professionals, "I shot you first!"
You killed 8 wedding guests in all!
@@a.rogers1403 Thank you. Bingo!
@@bob1505 He's getting better
Preferred "tan- ... combat cars" as a running gag tbh.
An anecdote from the other side of Iron Curtain:
There were once division level exercises. There was a bridge. There was a board standing next to bridge with words "Bridge destroyed" on it.
A unit of motorized infantry, mounted on OT-64 (aka SKOT) got to that bridge. It's commanding officer looked at the board beside the bridge. He slightly squinted his eyes and yelled:
- Kowalski! To me!
Once Kowalski git to his commander he was informed that he had 10 minutes tops to create a banner. Banner was created in 8 minutes and was placed on first APC standing before the bridge.
What was written on the banner?
"We're swimming" (in Polish it's a single word: "Płyniemy").
In the late 80s, we traveled down to Catterick a couple of times to conduct Bn TEWTs in a big building with a large map board of the surrounding area (including the A1), with 'cells' all around for sub-unit elements to sit and observe the map and react accordingly in reporting to BN HQ in a mock CP in another part of the building. Having completed a two week intelligence cadre in Orkney, I found myself seconded to the Int Cell to control a right flanking Soviet unit. I would move and deploy this unit's elements according to Soviet doctrine and my BN units would react to what they saw happening. When an engagement commenced, the two sides composition was relayed to computer operators at the top end and a result was computed and then relayed back for resolution on the map board. I loved it and found it a fascinating exercise. I guess, given it was late 80s, that the technology was still fairly basic and that modern systems are probably much more advanced now.
The US did something similar, with a 1/300 scale map board and GHQ micro-armor. Only the umpires could see the whole board, the HQ units being trained got reports of what their troops saw.
@@ScottKenny1978 LindyBeige has a video on the Liverpool Western Approaches command center. They had a North Atlantic map on the floor with U-boat, convoy, and other toys pushed around. The commanders were all outside the map area with a fence between them and the map area. They could only observe the map through slits shielded with some gauze which let them see only what the umpires permitted, to simulate limited, late, and wrong information. It's a pretty good idea for limited tech and funds.
I didn't even tap MILES like system with coin.
Being close enough to guy firing machine gun chambered to 7.62x64R seemed to do the trick
Your description of maneuvers weirdly matches up with my memories of late 30's and early 40's films that have this as a side plot. Mostly it was how to game the system to get results favoring your team. Comedy films loved this.
My preteen maneuvers favored dirt clods over rocks. Great exploding effects with dry dirt and rocks tended to leave cranial dents without helmet liners.
I remember reading an article in MHQ on the 1940-41 maneuvers some time ago. The author noted that the Louisiana and Carolina maneuvers were the largest land battles ever fought in North America.
Thank you very much for clarification! Been there myself a couple of time where we generally just shot blanks at each other without any effect or umpires. In basic I was assistent machine gunner and we hosed down a field from which we were attacked. Then later in an exercise I machine gunned from a truck, shooting blanks into a forest where later the ambushers talked about the results.
Once we had lasers on our weapons but no receivers... I was in logistics, so we never had any real, in depth combat training on foot.
Back in the '90s we (two OHP frigates) were in war games against the Kennedy battle group - asymmetrical threat. Our sister ship did a high speed charge and retreat. Following the naval doctrine of aggression aggression aggression the entire CAP along with most of the escorts went running off after her leaving us free to get in close and empty our 72mm into the carrier. Results? Inconclusive, and the war game was concluded prematurely, our captain got "promoted" to a desk in the Pentagon and that was that.
We also did NATO wargames and that was scary because many of those European navies have no idea what they are doing.
You mean 76mm, right?
My sub got tasked to play OpFor against the Lincoln Group back in the day. We got some _very_ nice pictures through the periscope with the 72 on the island on one side of the crosshairs or the other, it being *very* rude to actually put one of your own ships in the crosshairs.
As far as I know, they never did find us (certainly never dropped sonobuoys on us or had a ship go active), and you can see an Ohio-class sub at 160ft down, they're so huge...
That was some fun stuff, the new CO had spent his XO tour on the Kamehameha.
Monty Python and the Holy Grail references in the video title?
Instant like. As long as you don't go into detail about your father building castles in swamps.
But the maneuvers were conducted on ooooge tracts of land.
Well, you see, i thought your son was a lady.
But what about the curtains?
'You stepped onto a mine ya creep!'
@@leeboy26 And who, just when he seemed about to recover, suddenly felt the icy hand of Death upon him.
Just got done with NTC last week. My weapon miles was so old, the laser couldn't even be zeroed.
We had whole exercises conducted with those. The attachment wasn't particularly secure either and would move a bit with every shot. It was more or less impossible to score a hit on anyone from more than ~2 m away.
@@alltat old gear.
My Dad would have loved to here this , as he was there in 41 . Having enlisted in 36 ! He was in an AA unit , and got covered quite regularly with flour .
It makes perfect sense about an army of umpires keeping score, i love the detail of them driving to the impact zone of artillery. I wonder how many they needed at the 400,000 man Louisiana maneuvers.
The Marine Corps has a real simple way of doing our version of ATC called CAX (Combined Arms Exercise). We just simply use live ordnance agasint a pretend enemy, no lasers, no simunitions, just shoot at nothing. How they decide how well a unit has done and how many casualties they took, I have no idea. I was always more towards the rear taking calls from ground units for air support, be it a log run, clsoe air support, or medevac.
How do you do Wargames?
Army: Millions of dollars of sophisticated lasers sensors and transmitters that don't quite work right because coughLowestBiddercough
Marine Corp: LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!
@@ekscalybur well.....yea. it also gets you used to shooting live rounds on a "dynamic" range
Since you're shooting at nothing, if you hit something you missed. But if you missed, then you hit. I sense a paradox.
Riceball01 Back in my day in the Army it was called a CALFEX (Combined Arms Live Fire Exercise) which had everything - mortars, artillery, tanks, attack helicopters, close air support - I was surprised the Navy didn't sail a destroyer down Puget Sound and start blasting away (I was at Ft Lewis as an Eltee)
@@colbeausabre8842 That sounds exactly like what our CAXs were like, but probably on smaller scale than what you did. I can't say for certain, but I think CAXs may have been battalion level exercises, maybe a full regiment at most. But we would be using everything we had from infantry, to armo,r, to fixed and roatary winged air support. But naval gun firs support was never an option since CAX always took place out in 29 Palms, too far inland for even a battleship to support.
Gotta make sure the guards at the HQ stay there, and make sure the generals don't leave this room.
Right, not to be leaving the room, even if the guards come and get them.
@@PeterDavid7KQ201 No, no, you stay here and make sure he doesn't leave.
I thought you meant him. You know, it seemed a bit daft me I were to guard him when he's a guard.
Back in '84 my 12B squad was in 'loose' convoy.
Making a 'fast' maneuver to outflank the opfor and blow a bridge.
My 5ton had a squad of 11B in the back, along with the pioneer boxes.
Closing in on our bridge, we were spotted by choppers and lit up.
I was one of the disabled/destroyed trucks.
That God awful racket the miles put out.
This is so good! This is the type of unique content that makes the new Chieftains hatch video so anticipated.
>simuniton tank rounds
Actually, russia has those. They're basically huge paintball rounds and they've been working on them since 2016
A wonderful video on mid-20th century War Games. Thanks, Chieftain
As someone who has been hit by sim rounds, I can attest that they do in fact hurt like hell. I took one where I wasn't even armored during a building clearing drill and it left a huge purple bruise on my neck for weeks....
Your a hidden gem that has some incredible history to share with us! Always love the videos. Im slowly working my way back down the catalog. There is still many to be seen! Keep up the awesome work!
Glad you’re enjoying. Tell all your friends, I need the hit counters to keep going up!
I was part of a REME section attached to a RA battery and we were on exercise and came under (pretend) mortar attack. We were in the middle of cooking breakfast, including that of the umpire. He declared us causalities and told us to carry on cooking his breakfast and not join the stand to.
A swede here, and I did not expect to see a clip from that movie here at 5:10. Love you even more for that now.
Really fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing this
Excellent video! Thanks for explaining this to us; it was certainly fascinating to me :)
Funny! It seems that nothing has changed in over 20 years since I was in the army.
They are still yelling bang due to lack of blank ammo. And the knocking on the lasers is still a thing 🙂
I really like the truck with the word "Helicopter". I once had pleasure of being part of in a truck with the word "Hind" written on the side; Much to the dispair of Blue-force 🙂.
Dad told me the flour in the flour bomb was mixed with dirt to keep solders from eating it.
Smith! What are you doing? Baking a cake, sir!
@@wbertie2604 Imagining a gunner cooking a fancy cake on a bomber haha
Video illustrating Bridge umpire is from Swedish 1970ies film. Joke is that refreshment training conscripts want to sneak into town to have a drink. Bridge umpire says the bridge is blown up and wont let them pass no matter how much they point to the bridge and say IT IS RIGHT THERE. So, they regroup, paint "helikopter" on their truck and run across the bridge. Joke being, if the bridge umpire can pretend the bridge is blown up, they can pretend their truck is a helicopter. Brilliant of Chieftain to include that clip :p
I missed about 30 seconds after the "helicopter" crossed the bridge. Clearly my mission focus has degraded since leaving the military.
The "repmånad"-clip with "Helicopter" made me happy!
SAAB Bofors make some crazy simulation systems I’ve had the pleasure of using a few times. Indirect fires can be simulated and the entire action can be watched on a big screen after the ex. Really helpful piece of kit, made me think about how I could improve my skills. Let’s just say it’s always very humbling.
I'm reminded of an anecdote from 'The GI's War' which I will paraphrase here:
_"A tank drove up to our position and stopped. The top hatch opened and the Tank Commander leaned out of the hatch and informed us we were now his prisoners. One of our guys grabbed a flour grenade and threw it at the tank commander yelling, 'Dead men can't take prisoners!' Suddenly the Umpires appeared, and it seemed quite an argument was brewing, capped off by the tank commander himself being quite indignant at the possibility of becoming a casualty. When we realized the flour bag had hit the man in the face, we decided to become scarce and forestall any attempt at revenge."_
Honestly I was kinda lost trying to follow along with what you were saying...
But I liked this type of video.. and type of information... Do more Chief... We liked it a lot... I'm sure.
Thanks man
I was asking myself this question? Nice explanation.
OMG! I LOVE the clip from repmånad with the faux helicopter to solve the issue of the faux blown up bridge :D
As soon as you mentioned sim rounds I got phantoms pains on my forearms
thank you, appreciated that
I took out a whole platoon with a F89 Minimi and miles. Pure carnage and the DS cracked the shits because I was supposed to put up a feeble defence and politely die, enabling the platoon commander to execute his orders. Decided I wasn't having any of that and lured them into a killing ground where I took the lot out from a well concealed position in an enfilade position.
5:05 :D loved that you used a clip from a old Swedish movie :D
An old classic :)
Before MILES, there was SCOPES..That was the worst. You placed a scope on your M16 rifle and you had to look through a tiny aperture and you had to.read a number on specially marked helmet covers and call that number out to get a kill. Lots of cheating on both sides
That mention on cheating the MILES system reminded me of the old show reality TV show, Combat Missions, were they cheated on a mission by covering the guy to be escorted with cloth over the sensors to avoid being hit. Since there were obviously cameras around, I think they got kicked out that episode.
Funny you mention NTC. I trained there before my second Afghanistan trip in 2010. My battalion was in the mass casualty range in their mock city. We got blown up on the way in (my company plus attachments from another). Got my squad and part of another into a large, empty building. We opened some doors to pull security, and I spotted three opfor outside. I shot all three, and the OC with us said “good work sergeant!” and killed me with the god gun.
I liked NTC, except the “scripted” encounters.
Even in the 80s we used MILES with great results. We did occasionally use the God gun
i fucking loved being the bad guy in war games. shout out to all my OP4 guys
OK back in the day of the Old Corps as raw Marines in the field during ITR we stuck expended blank cartridge's into the flash suppressors of our M-16A1 rifles. When fired they worked like a Rifle Grenade and when entering the area the target Marine a distinct whistle and thump would be heard, an impact was quite painful.
It was so un-nerving to the other teams the Troop handlers during the exercise stopped it and inspected all magazines of us Marines to ensure we had no live ammunition.
None of us spoke up.
Very interesting thank you
Thanks for reminding me of my wicked childhood. I had a 27-year military career spread over a 35-year period and participated in training exercises ranging from fire-team level field training exercises to corps level command post exercises. I have a few period military manuals from both World Wars, too. The role of politics in massive maneuvers cannot be exaggerated. Somehow, these do have some training value.
In my first Reforger in German in the early 70s for some reason our recon platoon's M114s simulated being tanks, firing flashbangs from M79s.
The next year, while one side had red armbands, the other had blue, and referees & observers had white, everyone in my platoon were given black arm bands, except the platoon Sgt got a white one. Every morning of the exercise we were dropped off in between the 2 forces in pairs to be captured to be used for practice in handling POWs.
The guys didn't always remember we were actually in the same army, so there were some uncomfortable times until we were transported to collection points, where we had a great time making up stories for the military intelligence folks, the only time I ever saw any of those, and being guarded until the end of the day when the platoon Sgt came around to each collection site with a truck and picked us up.
It was fun, there aren't many duty days in the army where you had no supervisor, we picked up a lot of info like freqs and call signs from cheat sheets from the vehicles transporting us we gave up during interrogation, but very, very cold since we were given no chance to warm up and German winters are cold.
Hah! You get a like for including the "helikopter" from Repmånad ;)
I've always enjoyed watching your content you keep it rather entertaining even though you're just standing there talking to a camera lol you could also be a teacher I feel like however specifically a history teacher as it's kind of your strong suit lol hope you have a good day Nick and thanks for the vids lol
How on earth did you find a clip from an old, but great Swedish film to illustrate the bridge umpire? I have actually traveled over that bridge, did not have to write helicopter on my dads car though as at that time the bridge was not blown up by the enemy. We could have done that though as we also visited the hardwarestore where they bought the paint in the film
I have to ask: how did you even _know_ about the "Helikopter" scene? :) That is an obscure piece of _distinctly_ Swedish popular culture, that is practically known only to Swedish conscripts of the previous millenium.
I know many obscure military related things. Why else do you watch this channel? My stunning good looks? :p
@@TheChieftainsHatch Uhm...
...
...fair point, I must say.
Well, that... and the dry-as-tinder Irish humour, enriching my vocabulary with things like "Significant Emotional Event", and that "slight altercation [...] in Europe".
Not to spoil the Swedish bit, but using a truck as a "helicopter" was an extremely common thing in the Canadian Army Reserve (Reg Force too iirc) even before I joined in 1980. I think the roots of this sarcastic take on our lack of training resources were the guys watching Vietnam footage and movies at a bet.
FWIW we too did the bang bang bit, although there was usually just enough blank ammo on our unit ex's to keep in practice at cleaning the gas related parts of our FNs.
Me at JRTC: **Rips into Geronimo with a 50cal in defense of my platoon from an up armored M1084 MTV while the gun line direct fires the howitzers**
OC: Yeah they shot you with a BMP
Me: **looks around for a M113 dressed up to look like a BMP and seeing nothing** Where?
OC: Well its notional so its not actually here
Me: And the guys I shot with the 50?
OC: Unharmed... anyway heres you casualty card... oof Amputated legs, a fractured arm, exposed brain matter, and unconscious, hopefully someone gets to you soon.
I regret I have but one upvote to give for the title.
The 1942 example sounds pretty good to me, for the available tech. The forest looks pretty good, no matter how silly the trees seem. But I was a supply clerk on an aircraft carrier and might not even recognize some of the trees and forests.
I hit you with my blanks!
5:07 lol 🚁
i listened to FM 105-5 a lot in the 80s, man
Back in the pre-WW2 days there were shortages of all types of equipment, among them machine guns. My dad did Army ROTC Advanced Camp at Camp Bullis TX in 1941 and being somewhat of a moose (we run to that as a family - dad played lineman and I played linebacker in high school) was designated a machine gunner. So they're out on a FTX and dad is told to make machine gun noises if he sees a target. Later, he sees four cadets from the "enemy" closely bunched together and advancing towards him, so - feeling like an idiot - he starts going "rat-tat-tat", but it doesn't stop the attackers. Finally, just as they're about to march right over him, he hears them chanting "Tank...tank....tank...."
One wonders if the chaos and randomness of combat was represented in any way. Umpires with a bag of d6's, gathered around a jeep's bonnet, deciding who won...
EVERYBODY STAND STILL
Sarge dropped a D4 and you don't want to step on that before we find it.
@@johnladuke6475 Dammit, I thought d4's were banned by Geneva convention.
@@Kumimono The tricky thing about the Geneva Convention is that it only applies when both sides of the conflict are the regular armed forces of signatory nations fighting a declared war. Which basically doesn't ever happen anymore.
Sounds like the movie The Dirty Dozen wasn't that inaccurate in how the wargame was portrayed
That's what I immediately thought of as well.
On another topic , if you haven’t already seen it, I wanted to recommend you find the recent Russian war movie White Tiger. It was made by an artsy Russian director and the cinematography and action sequences are terrific. It’s a WW2 Eastern front movie with an occult angle. The occult and philosophical bits might not be to everyone’s taste but the equipment in the action scenes is awesome. The Russians brought out many operating T-34s, SU-122s, artillery, a Pzkw-4 and a whole bunch of wrecked and burned out tanks. In one of the scenes depicting wrecked armor they even had one of the Matildas that were supplied to Russia. The only weak point in the production values was that the tank they disguised to look like the White Tiger only looks like a Tiger from certain angles. I found the whole movie riveting, but some viewers might get impatient where it slows down in the last act and gets even more deep and mystical.
Anyway, I know how I’m going to paint and weather the next Tiger kit I build!
I really liked that touch when they detonated their barrel trying to fire it after dipping it in the mud.
2:20 "tapping the laser with a coin" That is what I heard too :)
So these training exercises were just a really elaborate capture the flag game you'd play with the boy scouts. Not gonna lie, sounds kinda fun with some decent weather.
That last thing is the crux though... there's never decent weather during simfire training...
@@SonsOfLorgar To be fair decent weather for me is anything above 15 degrees centigrade
@@martijn9568 well... how about 30°C in the shade with no wind and not a cloud in the sky for CBRN training?
@@SonsOfLorgar Just do stuff slower😉
He wasn’t kidding about not zeroing the MILES gear. Did 3 NTC rotations in the 2001-2005 timeframe and my unit never did zeroing. When we’d get into firefights we were trying to get close enough to safety kill. Thankfully the OC traveling with us was very accommodating in granting our safety kills, until the OPFOR OC’s came and outranked our OC, so our battle ended there.
Memories of exercises on the N York Moors, not firing blanks (they gave off smoke) but shouting "Bang, Two Three" like Dad's army.
Opposition said that wasn't fair, because they couldn't see us at all and assaulted the wrong ridge.
That inset clip was hilarious!
I bastard-hated being an observer/ controller.
In nuclear security, once you got a reputation as a good OPFOR controller, you lost your slot as a shooter. In one of my last engagements as an OPFOR shooter, nailed a guy with 3 good miles hits and two near misses. Then followed it up with a well placed frag.
PROFOR player started mag dumping from the hip as we both retreated to cover. No hits, no near miss. Area controller came over and said we were both down. Oh, man, was I livid. I had that dude dead to rights.
The truck with Helicopter painted on the side appeared in the Swedish film with the Norwegian title "How to make boys out of Men" many moons ago.
the classic "destroyed bridge" clip from Repmånad.
I still have my yellow filed MILES "god key" thirty some odd years later!
My favorite story from the GHQ maneuvers is the time a bridge crossing was held up for close to an hour while the umpires of the unit crossing the bridge tried to find the umpires of the unit firing on the bridge only to discover that it was some boys with a carbide cannon.
Lmao xD sounds like a boy's dream to take part in warfare exercises with your carbide cannon
The question is, if one in participating in a wargame and become "hit", does one have a "saving throw", with a D6??
Only if called out in their stat-line
very interesting
Excellent video as always, your humor and storytelling is still top tier. Though I did have a suggestion for the next Q&A video, is it possible (and effective) to use WP shells against tanks? I was rewatching Fury with a friend and the infamous Tiger scene got me thinking about this, specifically the part of it where the American tanks fire WP shells onto the Tiger’s position. I'd think a smoke-like incendiary compound being sucked into a fighting compartment and engine of pre NBC tanks would be effective. Clearly this is not the case because it's seemingly not common practice and I’ve never heard anything about it, so why is this?
I can see some potential in a *VERY* desperate situation.
Great video! I love the Renault FT and all its variants and was wondering if there was a pre ww2 tank that you have a particular interest in?
Kelly's Heroes demonstrated the efficacy of tank simmunition.
Kind of wonder if this manual was considered during the making of the first episode of Band of Brothers.
The movie clip with the truck at the bridge made me laugh. I was a bit supriced to find that it was known outside of Sweden. As i you may alredy have guessed. Helekopter is the Swedish word for Helicopter.
I just remember our MILES gear being a hot mess of malfunctions at Hohenfels training area. I had to swap out the gear 3 times for my M113 I was driving our platoon commander around in before finally getting one that didn't tell me I was dead on the system intercom every 5 minutes. An OPFOR BMP baited the armored unit we were attached to into a draw surrounded by a ridge and we took 100% casualties as every hoopdie light was going off on our vehicles.
Nice OPFOR tactics !!!
My dad was in Signal Corps. He was made an umpire because he was radio friendly.
Hah! I was very much surprised by the clip from "Repmånad" (1979) xD
Sweden represent!
Been asking for a while how exercises are done, thanks!
Upon seeing the manual, my first thought was:
Aha, the Rulebook for Warhammer 1.94k ...
1:45 "The Newer Versions are far more reasonable"
Me who just got back from JRTC: **Doubt... All of the Doubt**
Question: is the 3-1 points the first mention of the classic 3-1 advantage in order to attack?