And what gets me is how many still fail. The level of spite and jealousy I see in the UK from comfortable people is shocking. People who've benefitted from society's evolutional all their lives (better and unconditional access to healthcare, worker's rights, affordable luxuries, etc) who work to deny those benefits for others. It shocks me beyond words.
@@andromidius Because socialism never works, it's the most discredited ideology in all of human history, and the only people who still push it now are either very dumb or very evil.
It might not be massively popular among the fanbase, but I actually loved the portrayal of the federation in star trek lower decks. It's more of a comedy so it doesn't act serious on a lot of issues, but it absolutely nails the acceptance and tolerance in I think episode two or three (the one where Rutherford is changing career over and over)
Honestly, I don't envy the writers of Lower Decks, because they've landed themselves in a difficult position. They need to satirize Star Trek, to make fun of it and poke holes in it... But they have to do it in a way that doesn't BREAK Star Trek. That's a difficult line to walk, but honestly? Lower Decks has done an excellent job in its first two seasons. It's just so clearly made by and for people who love Star Trek.
Great commentary. I really enjoyed that scene with Jake and Nog where Nog says "If you don't need money then you don't need mine". Classic. DS9 was definitely the best Star trek series
Star Trek is probably the best example of the greatest rule of writing science fiction: you're not writing about the future, you're writing about the present. The original series wasn't a show about the wonders of the distant future, it was a show about the 1960's and all the complex politics and culture that implies.
I think one reason that the Federation vould even be born, was that all the sociopaths in suits that rule the modern world perished during world war 3. Which left a blank slate for humanity to rebuild and reinvent themself. For one of the most optimistic franchises the Federation has a pretty dark origin story.
That idea has always rung hollow to me. New sociopaths would just be born. They're a natural part of humanity and they're highly effective leaders. It's so weird that a show as smart as star trek had the idea "all the bad guys died so now we're good"
In my own head cannon I always assumed currency died when the replicator was invented. "Exact change" could just easily be from having no physical currency.
I always find this kind of reasoning funny, as well as the "reasoning" in trek itself. As loads of things will never be replicatable, think things like artisan products, physical locations, historic items, etc. You already see this difference in value in the modern day with replica's and original items with collectors items. Not to mention trade with foreign groups, it's generally more efficient to trade currency for goods than barter goods for goods. There is certainly an argument to be had that in the federation basic needs are met, but realistically most things beyond that would require some form of currency due to inherent scarcity of those things. Maybe federation captains are just giving blank checks and Picard simply is a spoiled rich kid, which is why some seem to think money doesn't really exist in the federation as they never had to deal with it. (granted that wouldn't explain Jake Sisko, seeing as his grandfather does function in the non-replicator based economy)
@@relo999 It's one of the most foolishly admired elements of Star Trek, but I think the no money thing is actually one of the dumber elements of Star Trek.
totally agree with you about the B5 reboot... My only issue is with the actors... it would be hard to find replacements i would be forever comparing them to the originals
@@chrissonofpear1384 one Germanic guy replacing another. But Waltz is actually known in Austria as a more comedic actor, Koenig just kept the sinister rolling throughout. Might suggest someone like Clark Gregg (Agent Coulson) or Mark Strong instead.
Agreed. I remember watching it when I was younger & being very disappointed their was not a 2nd season. Felt like that "world/story" was just getting its legs and so much was left unseen.
I wasn't sure whether you said "more read" or "more red" regarding Gene Roddenberry coming back as a producer/writer and then that anthem started playing and I realised it was both
I do recall one corpation being mentioned in voyager in one of the later episodes "author author" where the EHM "sells" (for the lack of a better word) his holo novel to a publishing company. Which means there is still business and there by business law , unions and regulations. Watch dogs groups and So on and so forth.
The Federation ha sno Money, it has Credits. Star Fleet is not a Military, but oes wear Uniforms and keeps the Peace and Fights Wars... yeah not sure the Federation is as advertised.
@@skwills1629 Kirk: I'm a soldier not a diplomat. Kirk's son: scientists have always been pawns of the military! (Referring to Starfleet) Undiscovered country directly refers to the scientific and exploration programs remaining unaffected when talking about mothballing the fleet, I'm sure the program in question isn't the traveling circus fleet!
@@skwills1629 hey, either way is good by me lol. As a staunch gun rights proponent a future where civilian science ships get to carry giga ton armaments warms my heart🤣
Some unwarranted assumptiosn may be in play here. For example, when at 3:08 Spock says, "The wars between opposing star systems no long er prevail in our galaxy," he could simply be referring to the part of the Galaxy with which they are familiar. When the Enterprise crew go back to the late 20th Century and Kirk talks about needing to get some money, he may simply be referring to the need for the currency of that palce and time. In the 23rd Century, it's a pretty good assumption that currency will be quite virtual.
In terms of rebooting a series, I would absolutely adore a reboot of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, with the original aesthetics given some modern flair.
The camp version of Flash Gordon is definitive. Any remake would ruin it without Brian Blessed and Queen doing the soundtrack. Just imagine it without the music and it's almost silly and unwatchable. But Buck Rogers sounds good.
I want raygun gothic to make a comeback. So I agree with all of you. Google raygun gothic if you don't know what I mean, you'll go "aaahhhh, that's what it's called."
There's a strong difference in letting the plot dictate where the story takes us and shoehorning a device in because you want to show how progressive your show is. This is why 90's Trek was brilliant. Today's stuff...hit or miss
Well done But a lot of what made Bab 5 so good was the "twist" with the Shadows and Vorlons. How do you remake Bab 5 where these aliens' motives are well known? If you change their motives would the show be worth watching? HUIGE Bab 5 fan and Star Trek DS9 fan here btw.
@@RowanJColeman So... I'm a huge fan and it's a big deal that you replied to my post. If you want to bounce ideas around for a Bab 5 reboot, I'd watch it. Then I'd try to get a job delivering coffee on the set.
Technique: look at what JMS did wrong in B5, and directly address that through new characters, while continuing the twists of the original for new viewers.
I honestly find a lot of folks talk about TOS (and even TREK in general) with amazingly myopic visions. There was another video recently that tried to explain why Right Wingers (not just Conservatives) are attracted to the franchise--and concluding one reason was the military-dominant government in which Starfleet seems far more prominent than in any democracy. I mean, think about it--Starfleet is a combination of NASA, the Navy, the Airforce, the Army, the Coast Guard, the CIA and NSA, the FBI, the CDC, the National Park Service, NOAA, the National Weather Service, and a host of other specialities. You could hardly imagine a more monolithic military organization (and it even uses the same basic rank insignia as Imperial Japan).
@@indetigersscifireview4360 I was referring not to the stripes used by TOS but rather the pips used by TNG onwards (and unfortunately made even tinier in DSC). I heartily approve of the stripes, and frankly bigger pips. Knowing someone's rank is important, and having them be so tiny indicates a society that routinely looks for the tiniest indication of such to react appropriately. It was called Star Trek - The "Leftist" Future by Renegade Cut.
I totally agree with your assessment of Starfleet. It is not democratic in the least and seems to have no civilian oversight. However, I am a consider myself as a conservative , and the idea of a military nondemocratic oligarchy is disturbing.
William Hamm Well Starfleet isn’t (or shouldn’t - since DS9 the writers have started to push that) actually a military. It’s a humanitarian interstellar-exploratory armada.
Speaking of sexism everyone assumes it was the guy's idea to put the ladies in short skirts I got news for you that idea was from the girls 👍Look at the fashion of the times the show was made
Like the presenter of the video said, TOS was influenced by the social norms that it was made in; the 1960s. But isn't that the case for anything that comes out?
@@flerma223 Not so much a "social norm" as mini skirts were becoming more widespread almost as a direct revolt against earlier prudish attitudes towards female attire.
Concerning Spock, it must be remembered that Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan to join Starfleet (at least before this was retconned in Enterprise with T'Pol being the first) or at least to first to be assigned to a starship with a mostly human crew (USS Intrepid NCC-1631 being crewed only by Vulcans). Even on Enterprise the Vulcans had a reputation for being a bunch of snooping, arrogant prigs, T'Pol was looked upon with great distrust by most of the crew for most of the first season and a bit into the 2nd and the aforementioned USS Intrepid was crewed solely by Vulcans very likely because the prejudice ran both ways.
in the episode where picard goes off about there being no currency, someone also says "drinks are on me" or something like that which kind of contradicts the whole no currency thing. it can be wand waved away that they didn't mean literally but really it's just a minor inconsequential continuity error. That said it is interesting that the writers even within the same episode had a hard time contextualizing a society without currency.
I always find the whole "federation doesn't use money" funny, as well as the "reasoning" in trek itself. As loads of things will never be replicatable, think things like artisan products, physical locations, historic items, etc. You already see this difference in value in the modern day with replica's and original items with collectors items. Not to mention trade with foreign groups, it's generally more efficient to trade currency for goods than barter goods for goods. There is certainly an argument to be had that in the federation basic needs are met, but realistically most things beyond that would require some form of currency due to inherent scarcity of those things. Maybe federation captains are just giving blank checks and Picard simply is a spoiled rich kid, which is why some seem to think money doesn't really exist in the federation as they never had to deal with it. (granted that wouldn't explain Jake Sisko, seeing as his grandfather does function in the non-replicator based economy. Maybe he just uses daddies pocketbook and never did anything else, seeing as the case with nog he's talking about needing money to buy a baseball card for his dad) For as smart of a show trek can be, they really didn't think beyond blind idealism when dealing with the economics of the federation. Not even the bare basic of why things are valuable is taken into account.
The Federation and Starfleet are mirrors of ourselves, of how we'll always keep improving, expanding our knowledge and understanding of who we are in relation to one another. I got the impression from this video that the expectation from the various series, is that the Federation and Starfleet are perfect, that they can do no wrong; not the point of the franchise. Thinking that they should be perfect limits the moral lessons that all they can teach us.
I'll never understanding the thinking that the absences of capitalism means the presence of communism. That there could never be anything else, that there could never be new ideas or new ways of thinking. Like if you go through you're life with the narrow minded view that they're the only two options and will continue to be the only options in the future then we may as well pack it in right now as a species. It frustrates the hell out of me when people associate star trek with communism, and its generally done by people that don't know what communism actually is.
If you can forget ideological difference but by contrast between modern society to neighboring habitable exoplanets or 32nd century on the earth, you'll get more brighter perspectives on true development process, and needn't to waste your time to think about capitalism and communism which highly influenced by last century.
The Starfleet uniforms used in the majority of the original series movies, although very heavy looking, were defiantly the BEST that the uniform design has ever looked in all of Trek. With the latter season DS9 uniforms with the wool shoulders and under vest (when it's shown), being a close second. I know that this holds no bearing whatsoever to the topic of your video...I just wanted to say that. If you ever decide to, I'd love to see a video of your favorite-to-worst Starfleet uniforms. I think your take on that could be fun and interesting.
@@joseph7988 I hate jumpsuit/pajama uniforms in general. I'd say that the one-piece Voyager uniforms (which bled over into the first two seasons of DS9 until they got the GOOD uniforms) were the worst for me. Followed closely by all of the different jumpsuits they put Counselor Troy in on TNG and the silver catsuit that Seven of Nine wore on ST:V. (I understand that it was mostly a sex appeal play on behalf of the studio...but that doesn't make them any less out of place to me.) The Motion Picture uniforms are a close fourth, but at least they kind of looked like they were "made of something" or had some depth and a touch of complexity with the massive belt buckles. The Hollywood budget helped with that a lot. The Voyager uniforms just look like the thinnest, cheapest uniforms ever utilized by Trek.
the mini skirt was the fashion at the time the actor of ohora even said it in an interview that that was how she dreast to get to work and that it didn't fill futuristic
In my spin off novel "Axanar: The Destroyers" (It is centered on the single nacelle Destroyer class starship trying to be useful without dying in the 4 years war with the Klingons) I adress these issues. 1) There is no currency per say, the Credit system is a sort of barter system where every person, place, and thing is assigned a value hence "Credit" 2) In spite of the Federation claiming they have eliminated all material needs and rescources are now unlimited, the old rules still apply: "Imagination is boundless, resources are limited" This becomes apparent when they need to rapace lost ships in the war. 3) Starfleet combines the functions of NASA, The military, the Coast Guard, and the National Science Foundation. 4) Starfleet's charter remains unchanged but the Federation Council and the leaders of Starfleet emphasize or de emphasize , or over emphasize the various articles which make up the Starfleet charter. They swing from overly militarized, to total peacnik. It was due to being in total peacnik mode that the Klingons were able to mop the floor with Starfleet for the first half of the two years war. 5) After the 4 years war, there is a movement to strip Starfleet of its military duties and form a separate Federation Navy. Ironically, my main character, who was about to be separated from Starfleet for being too militaristic, was granted a reprieve due to the outbreak of war, and earned the nickname "War Criminal of Inverness 5" lead the fight against the establishment of a separate Federation military.
chris sonofpear1 It was the fan film which inspired me to do my own novel. Ever since the Starfleet technical manual came out showing the single nacelle Destroyer class, it became my favorite class of ship. Seeing it in “Prelude “ was exciting but disappointing to see it do nothing but due well
The difference between previous Trek series and what we're getting now, is that it didn't try to *force* diversity onto its viewers, it was simply part of the tapestry. Now, they constantly hammer it home in a way that takes you out of the immersion, and makes you feel like the cast and crew are just breaking the fourth wall to proclaim how woke they are, and how you're shit if you don't like their new Trek. THAT is the reason why so many people complain about it now. The quality of their criticisms may be questionable, but I do believe there is a line between just having the more progressive society there as the background, and merely using the franchise to blast lowkey propaganda in a condescending fashion. I'm aware that Rodenberry bordered on that, but perhaps the episodic structure of TNG limited that. I agree with you about Babylon 5, but I fear that it would be done terribly, as I have seen with many other 'reboots'. You would need someone in charge who would respect the original vision of JMS, and not deviate to the point of it being something that is B5 in name only.
I have a different view on Spock sometimes antagonizing other crewmembers with his actions. As I see it, it is meant to show that there big differences between races that are hard to overcome but it's workable. It may be a bit too heavy-handed depiction, tough.
That’s another reason why DS9 is my favorite, it shows all these different races actually having to really work hard to understand and tolerate and respect one another. I think it represents multiculturalism and its challenges (and rewards!) so much more accurately than TNG.
It wasn't the male producers hiking the skirts up, it was the women. Majel is on tape saying she and Nichelle used to see who could get the shortest skirt on film before the producers told them to stop. You're spouting PC koolaid son. Miniskirts were a sign of female liberation, not the patriarchy and the same for flashing nipples. Back in the before time the biggest argument in Star Trek fandom was whether to call fans Trekkies or Trekkers. Looking back it's obvious Gene was a socialist if not a out and out communist and had feet of clay. He frequently took credit for other people's work so put down the rose colored glasses.
I predict a 100% chance that a Babylon 5 remake would would update the graphics and sets and look amazing, and still be a pale shadow of the original. B5's awesomeness greatly depended on the fantastic casting and the signular vision of JBS - it caught lightning in a bottle. What studio in existence today would recreate B5 without giving it the STD treatment?
John Martin I agree, as much as I would love to see B5 with modern VFX and sets. The acting was what made it. The chemistry between the whole cast is something I don’t think they could achieve today. Not to mention what they might want to change fit with today’s audience.
@@calvindeckert2740 At this point we should be able to remake and/or update B5 fairly easily. There is just no will to do it. You can add modern touches to sets like redoing computer consoles, extending sets digitally, adding atmosphere, redoing sound effects and of course updating all the space battles. There is a guy who is redoing Star Wars on his home PC for crying out loud. Look up Star Wars Revisited.
The big difference between post 2010 and pre 2010 trek shows is that older shows show us what we could be, and bettering ourselves, new trek is preachy and heavyhanded and shows us what we should be.
Ps, has anyone read Yvonne Fearn's controversial Roddenberry: The Final Conversation book? Seems to go into more detail on Roddenberry's thoughts going into creation of The Next Generation...
Babylon 5 reboot is hardly heresy when JMS has kicked the idea around himself more than once. That said, I think he and Warner Bros despise each other so thoroughly at this point it will take copyright reversion for it to happen.
For a sci-fi show that should get a remake, I believe that Buck Rogers should get one because the show was beloved throughout its run even though it was cut short due to corporate shenanigans.
Buck Rodgers has already been remade.... It was remade from the black and white serials of the 1930s to the awful Glen A Larson remake. Now, you want to remake the remake that was already remade back in the 80s?
@@darransykes5703 I didn't know about the 30's serials. All I know is the 70s version because of how popular it was. Perhaps it should be revived through a remake to remind the future about the past that they want to forget.
One show I would suggest to watch, mainly just to watch a good Sci-Fi drama that was ahead of its time is Alien Nation. Great acting for its time and the characters are well made. Give it a try, you won’t be disappointed.
Yes, but progressive socialist dogma clearly states that we judge the past by whatever religious edicts we establish in the present. Thus whatever may have been considered very progressive at the time can now be attacked via the new standards.
6:00 : On the show 'Star Wars: Rebels', there was a similar take down of something: The character Ezra Bridger is being trained by his 'master', Kanan. Kanan tells him "My master Yoda always said 'Do or Do Not, there is no try'", at which Ezra says "But, how can I know if I can do something if I don't TRY to do it first?" ^_^
yeah i know old video. Isn´t the federation in Tos just only 90years old? And before the founding many species seems to avoid contact instead of making "friends" with them? Aside a few esceptions. I would say when you aren´t going to starfleet / diplomatic core, life on a colony or being a trader, most people just don´t have many contact with aliens. Even the first contact is "only" arround 180years away.
@@DrewLSsix Well the Federation is nothing more than a military coalition whose policy is compelled by a fleet of star-ships or the threat of exclusion from the Federation. Earth is apparently governed exclusively by the military. No mention of any democratic selection of leadership. I am not comfortable with a system that does not provide for individual choice. Just an observation...I absolutely love the series, and it is sci-fi ...just saying....
@@hammertime615 you are utterly wrong in every aspect of your post, there are several references to the civilian government. The federation is led by a democratically elected president, a representative council and admission into the federation is rather difficult and not at all compulsory. Starfleet exists under the power of the civil government even to the extent that they adhere to doctrines the leadership of the fleet does not fully agree with. I have to ask, have you actually watched the shows and films?
@@DrewLSsix perhaps u can refer me to those references,,because any major epic type decisions are a;ways sent to a bunch of military star fleet admirals.. No indication to some elected leader or body. It is a shame they ignore democracy and opt for an unelected military council to issue directions. Some planets have elected governments, i agree, but earth is definitely governed by Star-Fleet. They never say. "let me check with the President and get back to you." Once again ..I don't mind..it is fantasy...just an observation. I LOVE STAR TREK as a whole.
The difference between TNG's wokeness and modern wokeness is that back then, MOST of the time, the story came first and the progressive socialist religious dogma came second. Today, the religious dogma has to be preached, and then a story constructed around whatever woke sermon is trying to be given. Still, the woke episodes of TNG and DS9 are ones I usually skip in replay.
There's a difference between telling a story that happens to mirror some element you want to highlight in reality, and having a sermon that must be preached, so you construct a story around it. This is highlighted in the fact that the humans of Star Trek are supposedly above of of the sins as described by progressive socialism. Yet these same perfectly progressive humans continue to have problems with Mr. Spock. Thus story > the message because without conflict, there's no drama, merely boring meh. Still, there are quite a number of "skip" episodes in Star Trek. But the best ones are ones that aren't preaching. They are telling an interesting tale.
Viewing "Alien Nation" the Movie and then the TV series will be a very good move. "Earth Final Conflcit" I have never seen it, so no comment. And "Seaquest DSV" (I assume they mean), might be a disappointment after the pilot... The last season certainly was to me.
Nice video. I did not know about some of implied flaws in the about the Federation. As for the B5 reboot. I would prefer a remaster mainly because I am not sure the show runner could resist the temptation to comment on a current political administration. I.E having the home guard were MAGA hats or MEGA (Make Earth Great Again).
Commenting on current politics using the Nightwatch/President Clarke storyline would be ideal social commentary. Not diving into that subject matter would be a huge missed opportunity
I'm disappointed to hear that about JMS. Unless he's just saying what he thinks is expected of him to work in the comics industry these days. I do think that dumbing down to the lowest common denominator remains a huge concern in genre pieces and it's certainly very evident in Discovery - though the Dumb there may be in the writing staff themselves as much as it is them possibly writing down to people in a manner that makes them act like the viewers are neophytes to Star Trek in all cases. They almost seem to be banking on it - either that or the writers are simply not up on basic things - like that a Transporter isn't an interplanetary device at this time. I don't think McCoy would have had to say "I'm a Doctor not a Moon shuttle conductor" if moon shuttles didn't exist. They might not need too if material could be beamed to the Moon from Earth (which they likely could anyway with a relay set up). Heck it might even be possible to beam someone to mars with enough relays. but I don' know if that would be feasible if you required 25,000 of them. But anyway as to dumbing down, yeah it remains a worry, as does pandering to a hypothetical demographic they want to attract, I hear it said that Discovery is "ashamed" of the audience it has and it is trying to replace it with the one they want. Oddly The Orville is insanely Woke too - but on different topics so I guess there are ways to move that Overton window and not look like loons like Discovery does - more as a production than as a show. the Show is just a poorly written slightly biggoted fantasy piece about making a criminal into a princess.
@@RowanJColeman I am not say that they can not comment but in the hands of new show runners that the commentary will be nothing more than organe man bad. Instead of how expations not meeting reality can leave people open to Fascist idea. Also I am worried that any commentary will date a reboot. The Nightwatch and Clark story line is scarier now since to me at least since it dose not tie it shelf to closely to any one real life group.
"Credits" Are not currency per say. The theory is that instead of basing currenlcy on gold, silver, or artificial fiat. It would be based on all things created having a "Credit". You cannot have this "Everything is free" Utopia. It would quickly become a dystopia
I've always seen the Federation as better than where we are right now but still working out their shit. Also while I respect Tellerite culture to argue all the points, sometimes in just not practical.
Enterprise did that a bit in its clumsy way. Main characters starting off quite bigoted and eventually playing important roles in creating an alliance with those they didn't trust. In some cases they do this really well, in others not so much.
The Federation went from a perfect utopian future society to a way for the writers to complain about their personal issues with modern-day American neoliberalism.
I freely admit i hate STD but not because of the tackling of social subjects - scifi began doing that - its that the story is not important to him. Kurtzman has said its just a platform for him to push his opinions. All good stories have a message, sometimes many, and help us to see things in a different light, but there needs to be an effort to do it right, whereas Kurtzman is practically hostile in ramming his opinions down your throat IMO.
Great video really really enjoyed it. Have a lifelong Star Trek fan it's great to see some I point out the good things and also the flaws of it was written by people. Fan sometime take a plot point to move the story for it as an absolute like "we don't use money" and of course the Federation is supposed to be completely enlightened but on three separate occasions when faced with the possibility of being conquered they chose to commit genocide now they never did because of Starfleet officers as you said on the front line stopping them but they thought about it.
Another thing about the Federation. Where are the elections? It supposedly a democratic society but where are the elections? They should be mentioned somewhere even if its not the focus of any episode.
If you never want to know anything about Star Trek Lore from TOS watch it in german... Credits are dubbed "Föderationsdukaten" (federation ducats) - don't ask why - so noone guessed it was supposed to be some moneyfree energybased communistic system ;-)
Tng was a vision for what humans can be ie noble, wise, courageous, benevolent etc. The first 2 seasons were not as interesting as it is hard writing interesting stories for flawless characters. Ds9 shows that it is much more difficult to have those ideals in challenging times such as war. Star Fleet was very much against the ends justifying the means. But Ds9 and voyager shows that sometimes that it may be under certain circumstances.
A B5 reboot is an interesting prospect. With a proper five year commitment by the producers and better screening of the actors, some of the intended plot lines that fell through in the original series could be explored. For instance, there was originally supposed to be a Garibaldi - Talia Winters - Ivanova love triangle, with Talia as the show's super-telepath and Ivanova as the eventual leader of the telepath resistance. But then the actors Andrea Thompson and Jerry Doyle divorced in real life, and the Winters character exits the show to be replaced by Patricia Tallman's Leta. Then Claudia Christian exits the show after season four, she is replaced by the Byron character, and the entire idea falls apart. Also, because of budget concerns, the Shadow and Clark Wars, which were supposed to drag out over seasons four and five, were all shoved into season four. So the telepath resistance, which would have been a meaty B-Plot for both of those wars, was depicted... unimpressively... in the original show's season 5. And the original season 5 ends up a dud composed of all the character development "filler" stories that were supposed to fill out seasons 4 and 5. Though with the current stlye of 10-12 episode seasons instead of the old 22-25 episodes per season standard, there is far less room for pure character development "filler" episodes.
I dont think B5 should be rebooted, there are too many of the original cast and crew missing to make the feel work, a lot of iconic characters are lost. that being said I would gladly check it out if it were rebooted, just incase it turns out better than the original or even on-par but i remain skeptical
6:04 RIP Aron Eisenberg (Nog). May you find yourself in the Divine Treasury
For some reason this news have totally flown under my radar.. R.I.P Aron!
Albert Nguyen oh my gosh I didn’t know he had died ;-; RIP Aron
Yup! He died on Sunday
Aww... I would have loved seeing him continued in the Picard series.
Don’t forget Odo(René Auberjonois) he passed away back in December...
It's like what Sisko said: it's easy to be a saint when you live in Paradise.
Long live the Sisko!
And what gets me is how many still fail. The level of spite and jealousy I see in the UK from comfortable people is shocking. People who've benefitted from society's evolutional all their lives (better and unconditional access to healthcare, worker's rights, affordable luxuries, etc) who work to deny those benefits for others. It shocks me beyond words.
@@andromidius Because socialism never works, it's the most discredited ideology in all of human history, and the only people who still push it now are either very dumb or very evil.
It might not be massively popular among the fanbase, but I actually loved the portrayal of the federation in star trek lower decks. It's more of a comedy so it doesn't act serious on a lot of issues, but it absolutely nails the acceptance and tolerance in I think episode two or three (the one where Rutherford is changing career over and over)
At least it’s more trek than nu trek
Honestly, I don't envy the writers of Lower Decks, because they've landed themselves in a difficult position. They need to satirize Star Trek, to make fun of it and poke holes in it... But they have to do it in a way that doesn't BREAK Star Trek. That's a difficult line to walk, but honestly? Lower Decks has done an excellent job in its first two seasons. It's just so clearly made by and for people who love Star Trek.
Great commentary. I really enjoyed that scene with Jake and Nog where Nog says "If you don't need money then you don't need mine". Classic. DS9 was definitely the best Star trek series
Star Trek is probably the best example of the greatest rule of writing science fiction: you're not writing about the future, you're writing about the present. The original series wasn't a show about the wonders of the distant future, it was a show about the 1960's and all the complex politics and culture that implies.
I think one reason that the Federation vould even be born, was that all the sociopaths in suits that rule the modern world perished during world war 3. Which left a blank slate for humanity to rebuild and reinvent themself. For one of the most optimistic franchises the Federation has a pretty dark origin story.
That idea has always rung hollow to me. New sociopaths would just be born. They're a natural part of humanity and they're highly effective leaders. It's so weird that a show as smart as star trek had the idea "all the bad guys died so now we're good"
In my own head cannon I always assumed currency died when the replicator was invented. "Exact change" could just easily be from having no physical currency.
Yes. But credits still exist. 🤷🏻♂️. We barely need physical currency now (which is actually super bad).
I always find this kind of reasoning funny, as well as the "reasoning" in trek itself. As loads of things will never be replicatable, think things like artisan products, physical locations, historic items, etc. You already see this difference in value in the modern day with replica's and original items with collectors items. Not to mention trade with foreign groups, it's generally more efficient to trade currency for goods than barter goods for goods.
There is certainly an argument to be had that in the federation basic needs are met, but realistically most things beyond that would require some form of currency due to inherent scarcity of those things. Maybe federation captains are just giving blank checks and Picard simply is a spoiled rich kid, which is why some seem to think money doesn't really exist in the federation as they never had to deal with it. (granted that wouldn't explain Jake Sisko, seeing as his grandfather does function in the non-replicator based economy)
@@relo999 It's one of the most foolishly admired elements of Star Trek, but I think the no money thing is actually one of the dumber elements of Star Trek.
totally agree with you about the B5 reboot... My only issue is with the actors... it would be hard to find replacements i would be forever comparing them to the originals
Zion Crash I could do it as ambassador Kosh.
I could see Christoph Waltz as a new Bester quite easily...
@@chrissonofpear1384 Hmmm yes very very much so
@@chrissonofpear1384 one Germanic guy replacing another. But Waltz is actually known in Austria as a more comedic actor, Koenig just kept the sinister rolling throughout.
Might suggest someone like Clark Gregg (Agent Coulson) or Mark Strong instead.
Zion Crash Fuck you, show some respect for the dead!
If you are looking for a good Military Scfi I recommend Space Above and Beyond. It only has 13 episodes and from the 90's but it is still good.
I second the motion
Yes! Amazing. I'd almost support a reboot.
Agreed. I remember watching it when I was younger & being very disappointed their was not a 2nd season. Felt like that "world/story" was just getting its legs and so much was left unseen.
Yes!!! That show rocked. Also do you remember earth2? That was a great show of the same period.seaquest dsv was another one as well.
Michael Lewis holy crap, that series is freaking amazing. Need to watch it again
I wasn't sure whether you said "more read" or "more red" regarding Gene Roddenberry coming back as a producer/writer and then that anthem started playing and I realised it was both
I do recall one corpation being mentioned in voyager in one of the later episodes "author author" where the EHM "sells" (for the lack of a better word) his holo novel to a publishing company. Which means there is still business and there by business law , unions and regulations. Watch dogs groups and So on and so forth.
The Federation ha sno Money, it has Credits. Star Fleet is not a Military, but oes wear Uniforms and keeps the Peace and Fights Wars... yeah not sure the Federation is as advertised.
@@skwills1629 Kirk: I'm a soldier not a diplomat.
Kirk's son: scientists have always been pawns of the military! (Referring to Starfleet)
Undiscovered country directly refers to the scientific and exploration programs remaining unaffected when talking about mothballing the fleet, I'm sure the program in question isn't the traveling circus fleet!
@@DrewLSsix But...but Starfleet is not a Military coz...its not...
@@skwills1629 hey, either way is good by me lol. As a staunch gun rights proponent a future where civilian science ships get to carry giga ton armaments warms my heart🤣
@@DrewLSsix Maybe, but do thy allow Civilians not in Star Fleet to own Guns?
The mini skirt thing was actually made a thing BY the female actresses
They asked for it
One wanted it to show off her dancers legs
And by the films it wasn't just women rocking them either😏
@@DrewLSsix Equality in FABULOUSNESS
Once again the result of being a product of its time, one when miniskirts were a symbol of female liberation.
Cant be. Its clearly pure sexism!
@@hallarious506 - Women can be sexist.
Some unwarranted assumptiosn may be in play here. For example, when at 3:08 Spock says, "The wars between opposing star systems no long er prevail in our galaxy," he could simply be referring to the part of the Galaxy with which they are familiar. When the Enterprise crew go back to the late 20th Century and Kirk talks about needing to get some money, he may simply be referring to the need for the currency of that palce and time. In the 23rd Century, it's a pretty good assumption that currency will be quite virtual.
In terms of rebooting a series, I would absolutely adore a reboot of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, with the original aesthetics given some modern flair.
The camp version of Flash Gordon is definitive. Any remake would ruin it without Brian Blessed and Queen doing the soundtrack. Just imagine it without the music and it's almost silly and unwatchable. But Buck Rogers sounds good.
Keep the retro aesthetic but make it a bit more functional and add a bit of an edge, and it could work.
I want raygun gothic to make a comeback. So I agree with all of you.
Google raygun gothic if you don't know what I mean, you'll go "aaahhhh, that's what it's called."
5:16 I am glad I wasn't drinking anything. Good one.
There's a strong difference in letting the plot dictate where the story takes us and shoehorning a device in because you want to show how progressive your show is. This is why 90's Trek was brilliant. Today's stuff...hit or miss
Of course it's perfect as long as you don't threaten the status quo doing that turns things suspiciously fascist
Well done
But a lot of what made Bab 5 so good was the "twist" with the Shadows and Vorlons. How do you remake Bab 5 where these aliens' motives are well known? If you change their motives would the show be worth watching? HUIGE Bab 5 fan and Star Trek DS9 fan here btw.
Both good questions. The nitty gritty of re-adapting Babylon 5 is worth a very long video of its own, but I still think it would be worth doing.
@@RowanJColeman So... I'm a huge fan and it's a big deal that you replied to my post. If you want to bounce ideas around for a Bab 5 reboot, I'd watch it. Then I'd try to get a job delivering coffee on the set.
You dont, you leave it as the perfect example of storytelling it is and make a new franchise instead of relying on nostalgia.
Technique: look at what JMS did wrong in B5, and directly address that through new characters, while continuing the twists of the original for new viewers.
Flesh them and their motives out more, maybe, and show more shades of lighter grey to the Shadows?
Babylon 5 is a fantastic series, which is precisely why it should never be remade.
I honestly find a lot of folks talk about TOS (and even TREK in general) with amazingly myopic visions. There was another video recently that tried to explain why Right Wingers (not just Conservatives) are attracted to the franchise--and concluding one reason was the military-dominant government in which Starfleet seems far more prominent than in any democracy. I mean, think about it--Starfleet is a combination of NASA, the Navy, the Airforce, the Army, the Coast Guard, the CIA and NSA, the FBI, the CDC, the National Park Service, NOAA, the National Weather Service, and a host of other specialities. You could hardly imagine a more monolithic military organization (and it even uses the same basic rank insignia as Imperial Japan).
@@indetigersscifireview4360 I was referring not to the stripes used by TOS but rather the pips used by TNG onwards (and unfortunately made even tinier in DSC). I heartily approve of the stripes, and frankly bigger pips. Knowing someone's rank is important, and having them be so tiny indicates a society that routinely looks for the tiniest indication of such to react appropriately.
It was called Star Trek - The "Leftist" Future by Renegade Cut.
I totally agree with your assessment of Starfleet. It is not democratic in the least and seems to have no civilian oversight. However, I am a consider myself as a conservative , and the idea of a military nondemocratic oligarchy is disturbing.
William Hamm Well Starfleet isn’t (or shouldn’t - since DS9 the writers have started to push that) actually a military. It’s a humanitarian interstellar-exploratory armada.
Speaking of sexism everyone assumes it was the guy's idea to put the ladies in short skirts I got news for you that idea was from the girls 👍Look at the fashion of the times the show was made
Roddenberry attempted to put men in short skirts every chance he got with his other sci-fi shows.
Like the presenter of the video said, TOS was influenced by the social norms that it was made in; the 1960s. But isn't that the case for anything that comes out?
@@flerma223 Not so much a "social norm" as mini skirts were becoming more widespread almost as a direct revolt against earlier prudish attitudes towards female attire.
Did you realize that the photo you used at 2:24 was from the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", not the TOS episode "the trouble with tribbles"?
I did, but it was the highest quality pic available
Something I think deserves a reboot as much as anything in Sci-Fi is 'Blake's 7'
I agree I would love to see it
Concerning Spock, it must be remembered that Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan to join Starfleet (at least before this was retconned in Enterprise with T'Pol being the first) or at least to first to be assigned to a starship with a mostly human crew (USS Intrepid NCC-1631 being crewed only by Vulcans).
Even on Enterprise the Vulcans had a reputation for being a bunch of snooping, arrogant prigs, T'Pol was looked upon with great distrust by most of the crew for most of the first season and a bit into the 2nd and the aforementioned USS Intrepid was crewed solely by Vulcans very likely because the prejudice ran both ways.
in the episode where picard goes off about there being no currency, someone also says "drinks are on me" or something like that which kind of contradicts the whole no currency thing. it can be wand waved away that they didn't mean literally but really it's just a minor inconsequential continuity error. That said it is interesting that the writers even within the same episode had a hard time contextualizing a society without currency.
I always find the whole "federation doesn't use money" funny, as well as the "reasoning" in trek itself. As loads of things will never be replicatable, think things like artisan products, physical locations, historic items, etc. You already see this difference in value in the modern day with replica's and original items with collectors items. Not to mention trade with foreign groups, it's generally more efficient to trade currency for goods than barter goods for goods.
There is certainly an argument to be had that in the federation basic needs are met, but realistically most things beyond that would require some form of currency due to inherent scarcity of those things. Maybe federation captains are just giving blank checks and Picard simply is a spoiled rich kid, which is why some seem to think money doesn't really exist in the federation as they never had to deal with it. (granted that wouldn't explain Jake Sisko, seeing as his grandfather does function in the non-replicator based economy. Maybe he just uses daddies pocketbook and never did anything else, seeing as the case with nog he's talking about needing money to buy a baseball card for his dad)
For as smart of a show trek can be, they really didn't think beyond blind idealism when dealing with the economics of the federation. Not even the bare basic of why things are valuable is taken into account.
The United Federation of Planets includes Eternia and Galagolos V. It's great.
I love love love Genes vision of the 24th century era federation. Big improvement over how it is portrayed in the original series
I agree. Funny how much pushback TNG got on its tv debut
2:31 Odo in the background... that’s a DS9 shot from Trials and Tribble-ations, not the actual original series
I feel like an honorable remake of starship troopers would rock
Roughnecks was good but it could have gone farther.
The Federation and Starfleet are mirrors of ourselves, of how we'll always keep improving, expanding our knowledge and understanding of who we are in relation to one another. I got the impression from this video that the expectation from the various series, is that the Federation and Starfleet are perfect, that they can do no wrong; not the point of the franchise. Thinking that they should be perfect limits the moral lessons that all they can teach us.
It warms my heart to know someone else remembers Earth: Final Conflict!
babylon 5 - with the guy who played Tomalak and other TNG ers
I did love EFC until the fifth season which was basically a FU to the viewers
I'll never understanding the thinking that the absences of capitalism means the presence of communism. That there could never be anything else, that there could never be new ideas or new ways of thinking. Like if you go through you're life with the narrow minded view that they're the only two options and will continue to be the only options in the future then we may as well pack it in right now as a species. It frustrates the hell out of me when people associate star trek with communism, and its generally done by people that don't know what communism actually is.
jockadoobee What we really should consider in the future is embracing the God Emperor; forget your capitalism and communism. Long live the Imperium!
If you can forget ideological difference but by contrast between modern society to neighboring habitable exoplanets or 32nd century on the earth, you'll get more brighter perspectives on true development process, and needn't to waste your time to think about capitalism and communism which highly influenced by last century.
The Starfleet uniforms used in the majority of the original series movies, although very heavy looking, were defiantly the BEST that the uniform design has ever looked in all of Trek. With the latter season DS9 uniforms with the wool shoulders and under vest (when it's shown), being a close second.
I know that this holds no bearing whatsoever to the topic of your video...I just wanted to say that. If you ever decide to, I'd love to see a video of your favorite-to-worst Starfleet uniforms. I think your take on that could be fun and interesting.
I agree. Which uniforms do you think were the worst? The pajama uniforms in ST:TMP and the 25% different uniforms in STD are tough to decide between.
@@joseph7988 I hate jumpsuit/pajama uniforms in general. I'd say that the one-piece Voyager uniforms (which bled over into the first two seasons of DS9 until they got the GOOD uniforms) were the worst for me. Followed closely by all of the different jumpsuits they put Counselor Troy in on TNG and the silver catsuit that Seven of Nine wore on ST:V. (I understand that it was mostly a sex appeal play on behalf of the studio...but that doesn't make them any less out of place to me.) The Motion Picture uniforms are a close fourth, but at least they kind of looked like they were "made of something" or had some depth and a touch of complexity with the massive belt buckles. The Hollywood budget helped with that a lot. The Voyager uniforms just look like the thinnest, cheapest uniforms ever utilized by Trek.
Thank you for defending the portrayal of the federation in discovery. Its accurate to that time period. It's very in line with TOS
Hey they have those mini mini skirts in the Next generation too
And men wear them too!
the mini skirt was the fashion at the time
the actor of ohora even said it in an interview that that was how she dreast to get to work and that it didn't fill futuristic
I would have watched a half hour long version of this!
In my spin off novel "Axanar: The Destroyers" (It is centered on the single nacelle Destroyer class starship trying to be useful without dying in the 4 years war with the Klingons) I adress these issues. 1) There is no currency per say, the Credit system is a sort of barter system where every person, place, and thing is assigned a value hence "Credit" 2) In spite of the Federation claiming they have eliminated all material needs and rescources are now unlimited, the old rules still apply: "Imagination is boundless, resources are limited" This becomes apparent when they need to rapace lost ships in the war. 3) Starfleet combines the functions of NASA, The military, the Coast Guard, and the National Science Foundation. 4) Starfleet's charter remains unchanged but the Federation Council and the leaders of Starfleet emphasize or de emphasize , or over emphasize the various articles which make up the Starfleet charter. They swing from overly militarized, to total peacnik. It was due to being in total peacnik mode that the Klingons were able to mop the floor with Starfleet for the first half of the two years war. 5) After the 4 years war, there is a movement to strip Starfleet of its military duties and form a separate Federation Navy. Ironically, my main character, who was about to be separated from Starfleet for being too militaristic, was granted a reprieve due to the outbreak of war, and earned the nickname "War Criminal of Inverness 5" lead the fight against the establishment of a separate Federation military.
Seems logical to me.
Is this a 2246-50 war, or a 2250-54 war, also?
chris sonofpear1 takes place before Kirk and Spock. The Constitution and Enterprise are completed just in time to counter the then new D-7
chris sonofpear1 czcams.com/video/1W1_8IV8uhA/video.html
So that would be the Axanar fan series timeline, then, around 2241-45...
chris sonofpear1 It was the fan film which inspired me to do my own novel. Ever since the Starfleet technical manual came out showing the single nacelle Destroyer class, it became my favorite class of ship. Seeing it in “Prelude “ was exciting but disappointing to see it do nothing but due well
The difference between previous Trek series and what we're getting now, is that it didn't try to *force* diversity onto its viewers, it was simply part of the tapestry. Now, they constantly hammer it home in a way that takes you out of the immersion, and makes you feel like the cast and crew are just breaking the fourth wall to proclaim how woke they are, and how you're shit if you don't like their new Trek. THAT is the reason why so many people complain about it now. The quality of their criticisms may be questionable, but I do believe there is a line between just having the more progressive society there as the background, and merely using the franchise to blast lowkey propaganda in a condescending fashion. I'm aware that Rodenberry bordered on that, but perhaps the episodic structure of TNG limited that.
I agree with you about Babylon 5, but I fear that it would be done terribly, as I have seen with many other 'reboots'. You would need someone in charge who would respect the original vision of JMS, and not deviate to the point of it being something that is B5 in name only.
I have a different view on Spock sometimes antagonizing other crewmembers with his actions. As I see it, it is meant to show that there big differences between races that are hard to overcome but it's workable. It may be a bit too heavy-handed depiction, tough.
That’s another reason why DS9 is my favorite, it shows all these different races actually having to really work hard to understand and tolerate and respect one another. I think it represents multiculturalism and its challenges (and rewards!) so much more accurately than TNG.
It wasn't the male producers hiking the skirts up, it was the women. Majel is on tape saying she and Nichelle used to see who could get the shortest skirt on film before the producers told them to stop. You're spouting PC koolaid son. Miniskirts were a sign of female liberation, not the patriarchy and the same for flashing nipples. Back in the before time the biggest argument in Star Trek fandom was whether to call fans Trekkies or Trekkers. Looking back it's obvious Gene was a socialist if not a out and out communist and had feet of clay. He frequently took credit for other people's work so put down the rose colored glasses.
They do have money...like you said, Federation Credits. They just value it less than they do today^^
Good call on a Babylon 5 rebate
seaquest was awsome when I was a kid!
I liked it, but it seemed to get a bit... I don't know, it lost something as time went on.
@@thegreenmanofnorwich you might be right, I was like 10 at the time.
@@chefjamesmacinnis I was 11 :-D
5:15 Good for him but it is where I will roll my eyes at Star Trek's creator and the franchise as a whole.
I’d love a look into inter species fashion focusing on tailoring. With perhaps one specific tailor in mind.
I predict a 100% chance that a Babylon 5 remake would would update the graphics and sets and look amazing, and still be a pale shadow of the original. B5's awesomeness greatly depended on the fantastic casting and the signular vision of JBS - it caught lightning in a bottle. What studio in existence today would recreate B5 without giving it the STD treatment?
John Martin I agree, as much as I would love to see B5 with modern VFX and sets. The acting was what made it. The chemistry between the whole cast is something I don’t think they could achieve today. Not to mention what they might want to change fit with today’s audience.
@@calvindeckert2740 At this point we should be able to remake and/or update B5 fairly easily. There is just no will to do it.
You can add modern touches to sets like redoing computer consoles, extending sets digitally, adding atmosphere, redoing sound effects and of course updating all the space battles.
There is a guy who is redoing Star Wars on his home PC for crying out loud. Look up Star Wars Revisited.
I agree that Babylon 5 would be amazing in a reboot if they do it well.
Yup!
Andreas Katsulas... he the man!!
The big difference between post 2010 and pre 2010 trek shows is that older shows show us what we could be, and bettering ourselves, new trek is preachy and heavyhanded and shows us what we should be.
Ps, has anyone read Yvonne Fearn's controversial Roddenberry: The Final Conversation book?
Seems to go into more detail on Roddenberry's thoughts going into creation of The Next Generation...
3:23 Can't help feeling that looks like a Van Gogh Painting.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained indeed 👌.
Babylon 5 reboot is hardly heresy when JMS has kicked the idea around himself more than once. That said, I think he and Warner Bros despise each other so thoroughly at this point it will take copyright reversion for it to happen.
For a sci-fi show that should get a remake, I believe that Buck Rogers should get one because the show was beloved throughout its run even though it was cut short due to corporate shenanigans.
That series had a lot of ideas which might still work in modern sci-fi.
Buck Rodgers has already been remade.... It was remade from the black and white serials of the 1930s to the awful Glen A Larson remake. Now, you want to remake the remake that was already remade back in the 80s?
@@darransykes5703 I didn't know about the 30's serials. All I know is the 70s version because of how popular it was. Perhaps it should be revived through a remake to remind the future about the past that they want to forget.
Kirk told Cochran “We’re on a thousand planes and pushing out”
One show I would suggest to watch, mainly just to watch a good Sci-Fi drama that was ahead of its time is Alien Nation. Great acting for its time and the characters are well made. Give it a try, you won’t be disappointed.
Goes best with a nice warm glass of curdled milk.
is that odo behind ahura
Yo, to be fair, wasn't the miniskirt _at the time_ a radical feminist icon?
Yup. One of the actresses wanted it to show off her legs.
Yes, but progressive socialist dogma clearly states that we judge the past by whatever religious edicts we establish in the present. Thus whatever may have been considered very progressive at the time can now be attacked via the new standards.
@@AstroNerdBoy Yawn.
shingshongshamalama That wasn’t very insightful
When you are talking about ahura talking about how much for a trible, the guy in the background looks like odo from ds9. 2m 25s in.
That is definitely ODO. Who ever edited this together obviously used a still shot from the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations"
Nice catch
@@jamesporter6288 oh yeah i completely forgot about that episode, guess i will have to watch ds9 again, oh well, thanks for the reminder.
6:00 : On the show 'Star Wars: Rebels', there was a similar take down of something:
The character Ezra Bridger is being trained by his 'master', Kanan. Kanan tells him "My master Yoda always said 'Do or Do Not, there is no try'", at which Ezra says "But, how can I know if I can do something if I don't TRY to do it first?" ^_^
When I read the first question my first and only thought was Babylon 5
So glad to see you agree. Your points about it were spot on.
Top notch as always. Thank you
yeah i know old video.
Isn´t the federation in Tos just only 90years old? And before the founding many species seems to avoid contact instead of making "friends" with them? Aside a few esceptions. I would say when you aren´t going to starfleet / diplomatic core, life on a colony or being a trader, most people just don´t have many contact with aliens. Even the first contact is "only" arround 180years away.
Great video man I love when somebody does an in-depth look in the Star Trek.
I think the Admiralty and Federation politicians were modeled after studio execs. :)
Does it bother anyone that the Star Trek future appears to be undemocratic military dictatorship?
How is that at all the case?
@@DrewLSsix you really can't see it?
@@DrewLSsix Well the Federation is nothing more than a military coalition whose policy is compelled by a fleet of star-ships or the threat of exclusion from the Federation. Earth is apparently governed exclusively by the military. No mention of any democratic selection of leadership. I am not comfortable with a system that does not provide for individual choice. Just an observation...I absolutely love the series, and it is sci-fi ...just saying....
@@hammertime615 you are utterly wrong in every aspect of your post, there are several references to the civilian government. The federation is led by a democratically elected president, a representative council and admission into the federation is rather difficult and not at all compulsory. Starfleet exists under the power of the civil government even to the extent that they adhere to doctrines the leadership of the fleet does not fully agree with.
I have to ask, have you actually watched the shows and films?
@@DrewLSsix perhaps u can refer me to those references,,because any major epic type decisions are a;ways sent to a bunch of military star fleet admirals.. No indication to some elected leader or body. It is a shame they ignore democracy and opt for an unelected military council to issue directions. Some planets have elected governments, i agree, but earth is definitely governed by Star-Fleet. They never say. "let me check with the President and get back to you." Once again ..I don't mind..it is fantasy...just an observation. I LOVE STAR TREK as a whole.
That B5 bit at the end would be great, with only one major problem, no-one could ever play G'kar the way Andreas Katsulas did.
The difference between TNG's wokeness and modern wokeness is that back then, MOST of the time, the story came first and the progressive socialist religious dogma came second. Today, the religious dogma has to be preached, and then a story constructed around whatever woke sermon is trying to be given. Still, the woke episodes of TNG and DS9 are ones I usually skip in replay.
No, lol. Absolutely not. Roddenberry made plenty of stories happen specifically to illustrate a point he wanted made.
There's a difference between telling a story that happens to mirror some element you want to highlight in reality, and having a sermon that must be preached, so you construct a story around it. This is highlighted in the fact that the humans of Star Trek are supposedly above of of the sins as described by progressive socialism. Yet these same perfectly progressive humans continue to have problems with Mr. Spock. Thus story > the message because without conflict, there's no drama, merely boring meh.
Still, there are quite a number of "skip" episodes in Star Trek. But the best ones are ones that aren't preaching. They are telling an interesting tale.
TNG portrayed the federation as soviet propaganda.
DS9 portrayed the federation as the soviets irl.
1:36 OK, I wasn't tripping. You really did say "mini miniskirts" (as in two mini's)
Maybe he said 'many' miniskirts; I don't know, it's hard to tell.
In Turnabout Intruder, the female Starfleet officer is under the influence of an alien disease, rendering her statement about female captains null.
Viewing "Alien Nation" the Movie and then the TV series will be a very good move. "Earth Final Conflcit" I have never seen it, so no comment. And "Seaquest DSV" (I assume they mean), might be a disappointment after the pilot... The last season certainly was to me.
I really like this video and commentary on some other sci fi series.
Nice video. I did not know about some of implied flaws in the about the Federation. As for the B5 reboot. I would prefer a remaster mainly because I am not sure the show runner could resist the temptation to comment on a current political administration. I.E having the home guard were MAGA hats or MEGA (Make Earth Great Again).
Commenting on current politics using the Nightwatch/President Clarke storyline would be ideal social commentary. Not diving into that subject matter would be a huge missed opportunity
I'm disappointed to hear that about JMS. Unless he's just saying what he thinks is expected of him to work in the comics industry these days. I do think that dumbing down to the lowest common denominator remains a huge concern in genre pieces and it's certainly very evident in Discovery - though the Dumb there may be in the writing staff themselves as much as it is them possibly writing down to people in a manner that makes them act like the viewers are neophytes to Star Trek in all cases. They almost seem to be banking on it - either that or the writers are simply not up on basic things - like that a Transporter isn't an interplanetary device at this time. I don't think McCoy would have had to say "I'm a Doctor not a Moon shuttle conductor" if moon shuttles didn't exist. They might not need too if material could be beamed to the Moon from Earth (which they likely could anyway with a relay set up).
Heck it might even be possible to beam someone to mars with enough relays. but I don' know if that would be feasible if you required 25,000 of them.
But anyway as to dumbing down, yeah it remains a worry, as does pandering to a hypothetical demographic they want to attract, I hear it said that Discovery is "ashamed" of the audience it has and it is trying to replace it with the one they want. Oddly The Orville is insanely Woke too - but on different topics so I guess there are ways to move that Overton window and not look like loons like Discovery does - more as a production than as a show. the Show is just a poorly written slightly biggoted fantasy piece about making a criminal into a princess.
@@RowanJColeman I am not say that they can not comment but in the hands of new show runners that the commentary will be nothing more than organe man bad. Instead of how expations not meeting reality can leave people open to Fascist idea. Also I am worried that any commentary will date a reboot. The Nightwatch and Clark story line is scarier now since to me at least since it dose not tie it shelf to closely to any one real life group.
"Credits" Are not currency per say. The theory is that instead of basing currenlcy on gold, silver, or artificial fiat. It would be based on all things created having a "Credit". You cannot have this "Everything is free" Utopia. It would quickly become a dystopia
Also, likely being electronic currency, even during Star Trek 4 era...
I've always seen the Federation as better than where we are right now but still working out their shit. Also while I respect Tellerite culture to argue all the points, sometimes in just not practical.
Thank you for mentioning Babaylon 5 it one of my all time faves
I have many more Babylon 5 videos on the channel :)
I'm thinking there's a great series in exploring just what 'improving ourselves and all mankind' actually means.
Enterprise did that a bit in its clumsy way. Main characters starting off quite bigoted and eventually playing important roles in creating an alliance with those they didn't trust. In some cases they do this really well, in others not so much.
Babylon 5 could be remade in an awesome way: but it would be stupidly hard to do right.
The Federation went from a perfect utopian future society to a way for the writers to complain about their personal issues with modern-day American neoliberalism.
Nog, the smartest economist ever.
Could you do a review on all the Star Wars Films after the Rise of Skywalker comes out?
I have a video on Star Wars coming in December
@@RowanJColeman I can't wait to watch it, see you in December.
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David Dyster
Sliders needs to be redone!
I freely admit i hate STD but not because of the tackling of social subjects - scifi began doing that - its that the story is not important to him. Kurtzman has said its just a platform for him to push his opinions. All good stories have a message, sometimes many, and help us to see things in a different light, but there needs to be an effort to do it right, whereas Kurtzman is practically hostile in ramming his opinions down your throat IMO.
but seaquest could be great for a remake. taking the understanding of climate change and the new science in renewebleenergy too.
I would watch a seaquest video.
2:33 is that yje cg altered past ds9 thing or???
Babylon 5 is probably how Earth will end up and Star Trek is how Earth should or we hope will end up.
Great video really really enjoyed it. Have a lifelong Star Trek fan it's great to see some I point out the good things and also the flaws of it was written by people. Fan sometime take a plot point to move the story for it as an absolute like "we don't use money" and of course the Federation is supposed to be completely enlightened but on three separate occasions when faced with the possibility of being conquered they chose to commit genocide now they never did because of Starfleet officers as you said on the front line stopping them but they thought about it.
Another thing about the Federation. Where are the elections? It supposedly a democratic society but where are the elections? They should be mentioned somewhere even if its not the focus of any episode.
I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one that thought all the federation higher ups were inept
If you never want to know anything about Star Trek Lore from TOS watch it in german...
Credits are dubbed "Föderationsdukaten" (federation ducats) - don't ask why - so noone guessed it was supposed to be some moneyfree energybased communistic system ;-)
2:32 I see you Odo...
Tng was a vision for what humans can be ie noble, wise, courageous, benevolent etc. The first 2 seasons were not as interesting as it is hard writing interesting stories for flawless characters. Ds9 shows that it is much more difficult to have those ideals in challenging times such as war. Star Fleet was very much against the ends justifying the means. But Ds9 and voyager shows that sometimes that it may be under certain circumstances.
Always remember that deep space nine is the best because it is REALLL!!!!!!!!
how would Star Trek been different had Roddenberry planned out stories to be part of either a three or four story arcs? would it have been better?
Great analysis; very even-handed.
A B5 reboot is an interesting prospect. With a proper five year commitment by the producers and better screening of the actors, some of the intended plot lines that fell through in the original series could be explored. For instance, there was originally supposed to be a Garibaldi - Talia Winters - Ivanova love triangle, with Talia as the show's super-telepath and Ivanova as the eventual leader of the telepath resistance. But then the actors Andrea Thompson and Jerry Doyle divorced in real life, and the Winters character exits the show to be replaced by Patricia Tallman's Leta. Then Claudia Christian exits the show after season four, she is replaced by the Byron character, and the entire idea falls apart. Also, because of budget concerns, the Shadow and Clark Wars, which were supposed to drag out over seasons four and five, were all shoved into season four. So the telepath resistance, which would have been a meaty B-Plot for both of those wars, was depicted... unimpressively... in the original show's season 5. And the original season 5 ends up a dud composed of all the character development "filler" stories that were supposed to fill out seasons 4 and 5. Though with the current stlye of 10-12 episode seasons instead of the old 22-25 episodes per season standard, there is far less room for pure character development "filler" episodes.
I think the Dominion would have wiped the floor with the Federation too if Sisko didn't go full Machiavelli.
Maybe if they would make Firefox or Final Countdown over again
A Bab5 remake would be absolutely perfect!
I dont think B5 should be rebooted, there are too many of the original cast and crew missing to make the feel work, a lot of iconic characters are lost. that being said I would gladly check it out if it were rebooted, just incase it turns out better than the original or even on-par but i remain skeptical