your sense of humor gets me every time 😂😂😂 also you hit the nail on the head - the game needs to group players who prefer different levels of risk through their reward curve - creating a location where A2 bombing and extremely low payment box missions are both largely encouraged just doesn’t make sense I’m hoping CIG studies map design in Tarkov, which demonstrates really clearly how differentiating risk/reward across the map creates pathing and sub-objectives that organically group players looking for similar risk that matches their reward for being successful
Haha, appreciate it man! I never got into Tarkov, but yes, that's a great point and the sorta direction CIG could be going, or at least take some inspiration from, with DC's.
I don't think it will be an issue. CIG is actually doing what Tarkov has done with the settlements that appeared in the last few patches. They are basically mini-distro centres, with box missions, merc missions, and trading/selling opportunities located all in one place. I see players coming and going from there as I'm doing my retrieval/merc missions, and I've yet to encounter any PvP happening at the settlements. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but even with multiple mission types available at these places, they are mostly benign. I imagine the distribution centres will be much the same -- and I think people are somwhat over emphasising on elements that will actually be rare occurences (just until server meshing goes live).
that'll be based on location and how much it's patrolled. Lawless areas of course are going to be hotbeds for piracy, but hi traffic ones might have either NPC's or even PC's hired to protect the area.
Most of CIG's ideas for events seemed to be just PVP. Even when they were talking about mining Gold Rush missions they focused more on PVP and the player miners essentially being targets. The Gold Rush wasn't for the miners. Or at the very least it would just be a space based form of Jumptown where a large org would own the area and their miners would get rich.
Well surprise, if there is profit to make, there are pirates to take. That's how this game works and you will never get a fully protected pve gameplay loop that also rewards good money. It's there to encourage group play (from attackers and defenders).
Player interaction in MY space game!? I cannot wait. It is going to be really interesting to see if they can tie it all together and make it fun for all. Great coverage of the topic as always.
it's actually better though, because now there should be more incentive for lawful players to get rid of and defend these locations, since they're also doing missions there
Another flawless video DTOX. I'm crazy hyped for these facilities. Just hope someone isn't raiding it and stopping me from doing cargo every time I land there.
The problem with distribution centers is that they don't seem to be made for distribution but for combat. Everything we are presented is fighting. Cargo haulers seem to be condemned to be canon fodder there. Very high risk for low/medium reward. High loss most probably. Those centers should be renamed COMBAT CENTERS. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so. I'll have a final judgment when this is in our hands.
It’ll be interesting to see how they handle people doing combat missions verses people wanting to just do cargo peacefully. I hope they put panic shelters or something that people could be in to avoid something they don’t want to be apart of
yea im sceptical. wish they would have a scheduled pvp event for the place. for "ownership". the winning guild would collect a % of all the pve missions and trade that takes place there and would have to defend for ownership in next pvp event with a 2 week rotation. Being able to upgrade defences and quests by working together and collecting resources as a guild. Owning it would gain you access to "crafting" a Kraken or something for the guild.
Ugh, absolutely not. Scheduled events are really lame. I love the idea that orgs can just organise and take over the faciliaties at any time if they're good enough and well organised enough and can lock it down long enough. It will require actual skill, actual coordination, and actual timing, just like in real life war logistics. This will also bring the game closer to EVE/Planetside, and make players more wary and more driven when interacting with such facilities.
@@Billy-bc8pk you think they are lame. I dont. Are you even talking pvp? There will probably not even be any real fighting against players at all in your version most of the time. Maybe small groups of friends. It is a game.. people need to take time out of their lives to plan a pvp event on guild scale. I personally think that battle would require alot more skill and planning.. But i have no idea what you mean about eve/planetside never played any of them.
SC has a fair amount of gankers, so their motive isn't necessarily to progress in the game. People will come wreck other people at the hubs for shits and giggles. All of the hubs. If they can they will.
There isn't that many PvP players on servers usually to worry about some being in the same area you are. They can't be everywhere - there will be too many free fire zones including all the current areas in 3.22. The odd time you coming across someone being 'naughty' it will be a welcome change of pace instead of an annoyance.
@@DTOXTVAbsolutely spot on. Reddit/Spectrum have these highly upvoted threads complaining about PvP at all times, but I believe CIG said something to the effect that according to their data it only accounts for like 3% of all player encounters? So it's a drop in the bucket compared to how often people interact in the game. It will definitely be interesting to see how often people encounter one another at these centres.
Though I wouldn't go as far to call it a welcome change of pace. For people doing cargo unless you are there to sell or buy goods player interactions are usually not welcome at all for risk not only of your cargo but of your time which rn is usually more valuable. But I do like the idea of always having to watch your back as nowhere is safe but that uncertainty leads to good rewards at the end if you can make it out.
Bringing all the gameplay types together 🤣 That's a nice _dream_ but it's never going to work. After PVEers get gunned down a few times and have zero chance to do what they're there to do, they just won't go there anymore! I'm not sure what the delusional people at CIG think could possibly entice PVEers to run around someplace just to be targets for the PVPers! 🤷 It will just be a larger version of Jumptown. Some large org will control it and not let anybody else in.
This is why I'm arguing for different facilities to incentivize these sort of behaviours at facilities *worth* "controlling". PVP players/groups won't do this unless there's something in it for them. Just separate that incentive from the more 'peaceful' / PvE centric facilities, which will be less chaotic, but will provide less reward.
@@DTOXTV except it wont work The few times I've had random pvp 'encounters' out of the blue, ie not going somewhere that is a pvp hotspot like brio's during 3.21 or ghost hollow on a medical rescue, have been a mix of pad ramming and randomly chasing down and killing me in an empty ship with no cargo. Last time was an empty vulture where a cutlass blue and another chased me at full speed for 5 minutes some 300km from the outpost I was leaving just to destroy my empty ship so they could laugh about it Unless the pve facilities have practically unbeatable defences or an armistice zone, then those types of 'player' are going to go there simply because they know player are there and parked in the open, so they can kill them in the hopes of ruining that player day aka for the tears.... Or have you forgotten why spawning on pads on station became hangers instead? You do remember PO and pad ramming? or Everus and pad ramming or slinging s9 torps at pads? or medical overdosing as soon as people could do such a thing?
Facility defenses and CIG's weak AI/law system will be a deterrent for sure, but most of those problems you describe are exascerbated by a lack of content and PVP with a purpose for some of those players acting like bored children. That's why its important to incentivize those people elsewhere. Otherwise, this is an inherent HUMAN problem that CIG cannot ultimately control especially since their intention is to remove armistice zones and have consequences help regulate shitty behaviour. Beyond that, when it becomes persistent, targeted harassment or breaks TOS, that's when they can step in. Yes the game is FAR from perfect and neither is the player base, but we've got a long way to go yet. I also think lots of players blow these negative encounters out of proportion, it has gotten a lot better IMO over the years.@@Ospray3151
@@DTOXTV maybe Though 'acting like children' is a pure lack of maturity and discipline, sadly It make me sad that you have to run a private servers for friends/guilds most of the time to avoid this And not so sure they will ever be able to remove armistice zones, remember being killed in your hab doorway in a medical gown on the pyro test? Repeatedly? Certain players will go for the easy kill every time and laugh doing it Why do you think most pvp games have mechanism against spawn killing/camping and safe areas where you literally cannot dmg other player until they are able to and ready to defend themselves
The hard part of the "balencing risk vs reward," especially in with the current systems, is that pvp'ers dont really stand to lose anything camping out cargo runners who can lose everything in one death. Pvp'ers typically only stand to lose 1 set of gear (we'll say 15-20k) while the cargo runner who just spent 3+ million aUEC and here in near future, spent 1 hour loading their ship manually loading the cargo on their ship just to spend another hour unloading, just to get killed in the latter, loses so much more then the pvp'er stands to lose if killed by justifiable self defense.
Since the first time I heard of a "Distribution Center", I thought; Maybe there will be landing accommodations for the smaller Hull series of ships, but there's no way a larger Hull ship should be able to safely land there, thus be limited to space station "Cargo Centers". ;-)
There has been footage of larger ship's docked to some sort of tower, akin a zeppelins mooring mast. That may well be a tech preview of how larger Hull type ships could be going about planet side business.
I think the problem is that we have not yet seen or felt any of the in-game systems designed to shape player combat interactions. It is still very black & white, you are in prison or you are not. We need long term reputation to push PvP if not completely to the fringes, at least away from major POI's. I don't think it should be an endless misery to be red, but it's a bit too convenient currently. I honestly think insurance should go back to only replacing stock components. If military grade components and weapons were then restricted with long term persistence it would add some actual risk to running red & some value to those items beyond aUEC.
I agree. I'm hoping DC's are showcasing some sort of 'hub' based rep, as seen in the bottom left corner with 'HD', it goes from yellow to red, im assuming some sort of hostility tracker with the current facility. That will help shape things a little more around the facility zone, but as far as running Red and insurance, I've been asking for that for ages. We need insurance to return stock ship/components only, give a little more risk to losing ships and choosing risky engagements.
I think the DC's are so big that PVP and PVE players could end up having their own missions at the same time in the same location without encountering each other. Conversely, I think it would be fun to have a delivery mission that takes you through a PVP battle area. Perhaps all CIG needs to do is provide a warning in the mission description to let players know before hand that they could be walking into danger. As for relatively safe PVE missions they could simply have so many DC's all over the place that PVP players won't bother to camp at any of them in hopes of catching an innocent delivery box driver in a Pisces.
yep agree wholeheartedly. different DC's with different levels of risk/reward is needed. a DC that has an all in one of every level mashed together will get CIG nothing but complaints.
This is the worst idea they've had. Look...I've played open world PvP games like DayZ Mod...and the Epoch mod offered trade hubs which forced players into centralized areas and or forced players into interacting. These areas had to be given a no-fire zone hardcoded into the mod to keep players from griefing. Did it work? No. PvPers simply camped outside the no-fire zone griefing people as they came to or left the zone. This will be what happens with these distribution centers. They can not just throw everyone together and expect anything but chaos and grief.
Yup, the minute I cant play the way I want (PvE Coop), I will just turn in to a murderhobo and try to ruin PvP until that gets boring, then leave and never come back.
I'm not too worried, it's not like they are forcing us to be at the DCs. But they are certainly a new exciting location rather than just salvage yards.
One thing that I am afraid of DCs is how well the IA will work, becaus rightnow in the PU is dumbest as hell, and if CIG want a good gameplay arround this DCs the IA must work flawless
It's going to be a cluster orgy of epic proportions. There will only be pvp experiences when you have two or more strangers at the same location. Unless the criminal penalty is high but why would it be if weapons are free? The PVP Slider might be a good idea in some games but unlikely to work for Star Citizen unless it's going to stay a low fixed player cap per server. I don't know if this is their long term aim or if they want everyone to be able to see everyone else in the same area ala EvE Online. It's going to be interesting to see if Star Citizen is FUN.
The PVP slider idea is trash, literally the epitome of pathetic. But if they wanted to go that route, then they would need to include some kind of penalty system for those who seek a non-pvp setting. Something like a 70% reduction on all profits earned, meaning anything you sell with pvp disabled, you will only male 30% of the profits. So if you sell a 100K you'll only get 30k, because if you don't want to assume the risk then you don't deserve the entire reward. And to ensure that players don't abuse this, anything picked up or interacted with while PVP is disabled will mark the item so that when you sell it you automatically receive 70% less profit. That is the only way that would work, and if you disagree with this then your initial argument is invalid.
These were pitched as end game content so it makes sense DCs are super hard. The amount of ground to air turrets are no joke, although I feel 20 of them are overkill. Basically attempting one of these without a ground vehicle is next to impossible if you are solo, land your ship right outside of the trespassing zone and your off to the AI in DCs are absurdly tough and their AI is wall hack esp cheater level player good.
All cig need is places that are lawless and high sec areas that are heavily patrolled by NPC cops with super wealons and bounty hunting players. Thats it. The jail system works well to get them out of the way with a time out for a few hours.
This is why CIG's game "design" will never make any sense what so fricking ever. Regardless of the owner's disposition there is simply no way any faction with fleets of Hull-E's loaded with credits invested in such a facility (intended SOLELY to perpetually pump more fleets full of credits into their banks accounts) would ever allow or even risk any bull-shittery at all to interfere with said credit pumping..... Do modern organized crime groups, drug cartels etc let just any random scumbags go around screwing shit up because "hey we're all criminals right?". No, they don't, they quickly and unceremoniously delete any such wannabes because ITS STILL A BUSINESS that they run for the express purpose of MAKING MONEY, not to be constantly repairing, rebuilding, and filling in bomb craters. But hey it's just a game, I guess it has to be stupid to work at all, because CIG apparently doesn't have the collective common sense to "develop" a sack lunch. That and they think literally everything has to be an FPS map first, everything else is secondary.
Everyone jumping to conclusions with pretty minimal information. Like you said, we won't know until they're here. No need for everyone to get their crusty panties in a bundle.
@@DTOXTV I agree healthy speculation is fun, and I think your video was well formatted in that regard, but the majority of the discussion taking place on reddit and elsewhere is heavy speculation that is rather negative. People should form their opinion once it's on EPTU/PTU, and until then just voice what they hope to see.
sigh... every time they try this it just turns into a pvp sweatlord central. no way the pvp sweatlords will let people have anything else but whtat they want.
@@DTOXTV It was never real, just a hidden preference when you enter a shard. The context of that video never stated there would be a hard slider anywhere nor should there be. We are also in a testing environment, player type are going to and need to clash in order to see what happens and what changes need to be made. PVE community freaks out over violence and PVP community freaks out over any change to the flight model. In 10 years this has remained the only constant.
The motivation of many PvP'ers isnt monetary. Its tears and lols they want. So those types will gravitate to PvE focused areas where they will continually test the defenses against their unwanted behavior. In other words, griefers will always find a way to ruin PvE players enjoyment of the game they want to play unless you can completely wall them off, ala PvP slider or separate servers/instances. The sad fact is most PvP'ers want loot pinatas to ambush and rarely seek to engage in a fair fight, while PvE'ers want nothing more than to be left alone to enjoy their particular playstyle in peace.
Define Interacting? You mean working out deals to get more done, hire escorts or share info etc ? Or do you mean pew pew at anyone you don't know because pvp is life? How many Boomers even play video games?
@@misstressscarlet basically any of those things, you talk to them ingame, they never ever respond to you, if they get crime stat, they hole up in GH waiting for next wipe, if you kill them, they will rant about unfair fight and griefing
I hate gamers who play multiplayer pvp games and have the audacity to complain that there's pvp. Go play No Mans Sky and be pathetic there (aimed at CZcamsr)
@KalinoursEU ever factor in that you may be annoying asf to play with/talk to? Your posts being evidence, and the common denominator of that issue is you, since it spans any game.
@@KalinoursEUi think you mistaking boomer for typical casual in this game. Every boomer i know that is playing Star Citizen is talking about old good times in Eve Online, where they were collecting tears of every crying babie that they capsuled in nullsec. Or meabe they dont want to talk with you just because they mistake you for every other kid that is playing fortnite or lol. Sometimes sht happens you know ;)
I expect the AI to be as stupid as usual so PVE for me will still be a painful experience. PVP deathmatch in a DC in Arena Commander, however, would be awesome, though.
Mostly - because PvP in Star Citizen currently sucks ballz. This is no overwatch, butterysmooth gameplay we're talking here. Add to that the dozen other ways to die, including your ship murdering you AND the 20+min time sink each time you die. Yes.. i can see how DC's are going to raise a ruckus in the community.
DCs are pretty useless until the server player cap increases substantially you can often find tiny places like brios empty. PVP interaction is minor unless you are doing something on the fringe or you come across someone more interested in greefing than actual pvp
I didn't fail to account for them, you just can't control them, you can only disincentivize them. That's what many players need to realize. You're never 100% safe, CIG can only do so much.
Im convinced that CIG hates PvE players and players that only have 1 or 2 buddies to play with. I sweat at work enough already, i don't wanna come home and hop on my favorite space game and sweat more just because some dude with a fragile little ego needs to get his jimmies off killing players that are just trying to mind their own business and mine asteroids or move legal cargo around.
CIG has created huge empty universe and now their idea is to cramp all players and all game loops at one place... Does it makes sense? I don't think so...
im guessing ...terraforming terrain , placing claim on a planets...forming alliances , designing and building bases , farming ground .expanding tech. to be able to advance into orbital stations and defences isnt going to be implemented......to bad .........
I think these things are going to be a shit fest at the start ( something i welcome lol ) and then prob will tune them with missions and what not later down the line.. im just happy we are getting new content and dont get me stated on the star map .. that alone is a fkn must have lol. o7
Im in the same boat. I bet CIG will embrace the chaos initially, then dial it back to a good middle ground. My thoughts were really aiming at what I'd *like* to see these become.
Isn't this like the box delivery at Ghost Hollow during a PVP event on steroids. This verse is becoming more and more a group only game. A BS get gude GAME. When it could have been so much more.
ehhh thats often not the case i've found but it can be, orgs are a major part of the game and being a solo player is more difficult and thats reality, generally solo players wouldn't be attempting these types of things anyways even if it is only pve without some backup or something. It's like eve online, there are higher and lower security zones all the way to null sec with different rewards ratios and so on for the risk, there's also technically a system to enable pvp with the red bar which is only good around null sec, and a yellow that means if you do something illegal or whatever you can be safely targeted by a green player and killed and so on, from what they're talking about is a somewhat similar idea.
As it would be in reality. Though the problem is that most people play it as a video game where CIG is trying to make an immersive sci fi simulator with pvp. No fix for it. Just make contacts in the verse if not friends and hope they remember you helped them out one time I guess. And learn to RUN you can't kill what you can't catch.
@@tj7094 myself as an example, i am avoiding cs3 as much as i can. Turrets will blow your ship. God marker for bounty hunters. No cooldown for good guys if they die (one mistake and i am in Klesher), they just coming back wave after wave.
I don't know but watching whoever plays this demos makes me angry.. Should a person who is not able to hit a f*ing barndoor (eg at 7:30) from 3 yards distance really be involved in making fps design decisions? Plus: Using shotguns in SC is one of the most disappointing experiences i've ever had in a game!
i dont enjoy this kind of narative, you have no idea what is coming, we dont have even a evocati version of 3.23 but the speculation and moaning is already all over the place. There is no problem before there is, this kind of video is maybe appropriate when you actually see what we get.... geez
Yeah. That's how wars start and catastrophes unravel. By sitting steady while watching it closing in from a mile away, and waiting until it's actually there. Just like Oreo ice cream.
It’s scary to imagine how unbalanced these new zones will be and how many bugs there will be. They haven’t been able to bring small bunkers into working condition for more than 5 years...and what will happen to the new and larger zones. in one of the latest patches they added new zones of “interest”... it would be better not to add them. it is unclear how and what they tested before adding, if NONE of the “new” zones work. The technical condition of this “online store” is complete fucking shit. The main thing is that people donate as much as possible and buy ships.
your sense of humor gets me every time 😂😂😂
also you hit the nail on the head - the game needs to group players who prefer different levels of risk through their reward curve - creating a location where A2 bombing and extremely low payment box missions are both largely encouraged just doesn’t make sense
I’m hoping CIG studies map design in Tarkov, which demonstrates really clearly how differentiating risk/reward across the map creates pathing and sub-objectives that organically group players looking for similar risk that matches their reward for being successful
Haha, appreciate it man! I never got into Tarkov, but yes, that's a great point and the sorta direction CIG could be going, or at least take some inspiration from, with DC's.
I don't think it will be an issue. CIG is actually doing what Tarkov has done with the settlements that appeared in the last few patches. They are basically mini-distro centres, with box missions, merc missions, and trading/selling opportunities located all in one place. I see players coming and going from there as I'm doing my retrieval/merc missions, and I've yet to encounter any PvP happening at the settlements. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but even with multiple mission types available at these places, they are mostly benign. I imagine the distribution centres will be much the same -- and I think people are somwhat over emphasising on elements that will actually be rare occurences (just until server meshing goes live).
that'll be based on location and how much it's patrolled. Lawless areas of course are going to be hotbeds for piracy, but hi traffic ones might have either NPC's or even PC's hired to protect the area.
Most of CIG's ideas for events seemed to be just PVP. Even when they were talking about mining Gold Rush missions they focused more on PVP and the player miners essentially being targets. The Gold Rush wasn't for the miners. Or at the very least it would just be a space based form of Jumptown where a large org would own the area and their miners would get rich.
Well surprise, if there is profit to make, there are pirates to take. That's how this game works and you will never get a fully protected pve gameplay loop that also rewards good money. It's there to encourage group play (from attackers and defenders).
Player interaction in MY space game!? I cannot wait. It is going to be really interesting to see if they can tie it all together and make it fun for all. Great coverage of the topic as always.
star cit players not whining about pvp challenge: impossible.
Appreciate it m'man, see you at the entrance to Greycat Industrial... With my RAILGUN.
Griefers and murder hobos hanging out at mission centers with an undeveloped law system … what could go wrong? 🙄
it's actually better though, because now there should be more incentive for lawful players to get rid of and defend these locations, since they're also doing missions there
Another flawless video DTOX. I'm crazy hyped for these facilities. Just hope someone isn't raiding it and stopping me from doing cargo every time I land there.
Interested to see the effect of a group of players locking one down
Another great vid!
I think DCs will be keeping us busy for a long time! They basically combine most FPS gameplay loops in one location.
Funneling carebear and murderhobo player subsets into an area sounds fantastic /s
Pirates doesn't always kill you for loot, sometimes it's just for fun
Excellent points made on this video. I hope CIG checks this out.
I think CIG is still going in the right direction. They want to use in game systems to allow all types of gamers to come together.
I do too, I'm just arguing for a greater distinction between the centers, we may yet see in 3.23 and beyond.
The problem with distribution centers is that they don't seem to be made for distribution but for combat.
Everything we are presented is fighting.
Cargo haulers seem to be condemned to be canon fodder there. Very high risk for low/medium reward. High loss most probably.
Those centers should be renamed COMBAT CENTERS.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.
I'll have a final judgment when this is in our hands.
It’ll be interesting to see how they handle people doing combat missions verses people wanting to just do cargo peacefully. I hope they put panic shelters or something that people could be in to avoid something they don’t want to be apart of
yea im sceptical. wish they would have a scheduled pvp event for the place. for "ownership". the winning guild would collect a % of all the pve missions and trade that takes place there and would have to defend for ownership in next pvp event with a 2 week rotation. Being able to upgrade defences and quests by working together and collecting resources as a guild. Owning it would gain you access to "crafting" a Kraken or something for the guild.
Ugh, absolutely not. Scheduled events are really lame. I love the idea that orgs can just organise and take over the faciliaties at any time if they're good enough and well organised enough and can lock it down long enough. It will require actual skill, actual coordination, and actual timing, just like in real life war logistics. This will also bring the game closer to EVE/Planetside, and make players more wary and more driven when interacting with such facilities.
@@Billy-bc8pk you think they are lame. I dont. Are you even talking pvp? There will probably not even be any real fighting against players at all in your version most of the time. Maybe small groups of friends. It is a game.. people need to take time out of their lives to plan a pvp event on guild scale. I personally think that battle would require alot more skill and planning.. But i have no idea what you mean about eve/planetside never played any of them.
SC has a fair amount of gankers, so their motive isn't necessarily to progress in the game. People will come wreck other people at the hubs for shits and giggles. All of the hubs. If they can they will.
And record it for their YT channel so even more incentive to do it.
There isn't that many PvP players on servers usually to worry about some being in the same area you are. They can't be everywhere - there will be too many free fire zones including all the current areas in 3.22.
The odd time you coming across someone being 'naughty' it will be a welcome change of pace instead of an annoyance.
Exactly, i think a lot of the time the 'PVP problem' is blown out of proportion. You are never 100% safe, should always be the assumption.
@@DTOXTVAbsolutely spot on. Reddit/Spectrum have these highly upvoted threads complaining about PvP at all times, but I believe CIG said something to the effect that according to their data it only accounts for like 3% of all player encounters? So it's a drop in the bucket compared to how often people interact in the game. It will definitely be interesting to see how often people encounter one another at these centres.
Though I wouldn't go as far to call it a welcome change of pace. For people doing cargo unless you are there to sell or buy goods player interactions are usually not welcome at all for risk not only of your cargo but of your time which rn is usually more valuable. But I do like the idea of always having to watch your back as nowhere is safe but that uncertainty leads to good rewards at the end if you can make it out.
love the music style!
Apparently, they have learned nothing from Brio's Breakyard and have instead decided to double down as hard as possible.
Good. Safe space ruins the game
Bringing all the gameplay types together 🤣 That's a nice _dream_ but it's never going to work. After PVEers get gunned down a few times and have zero chance to do what they're there to do, they just won't go there anymore! I'm not sure what the delusional people at CIG think could possibly entice PVEers to run around someplace just to be targets for the PVPers! 🤷
It will just be a larger version of Jumptown. Some large org will control it and not let anybody else in.
This is why I'm arguing for different facilities to incentivize these sort of behaviours at facilities *worth* "controlling". PVP players/groups won't do this unless there's something in it for them. Just separate that incentive from the more 'peaceful' / PvE centric facilities, which will be less chaotic, but will provide less reward.
@@DTOXTV except it wont work
The few times I've had random pvp 'encounters' out of the blue, ie not going somewhere that is a pvp hotspot like brio's during 3.21 or ghost hollow on a medical rescue, have been a mix of pad ramming and randomly chasing down and killing me in an empty ship with no cargo.
Last time was an empty vulture where a cutlass blue and another chased me at full speed for 5 minutes some 300km from the outpost I was leaving just to destroy my empty ship so they could laugh about it
Unless the pve facilities have practically unbeatable defences or an armistice zone, then those types of 'player' are going to go there simply because they know player are there and parked in the open, so they can kill them in the hopes of ruining that player day aka for the tears....
Or have you forgotten why spawning on pads on station became hangers instead? You do remember PO and pad ramming? or Everus and pad ramming or slinging s9 torps at pads? or medical overdosing as soon as people could do such a thing?
Facility defenses and CIG's weak AI/law system will be a deterrent for sure, but most of those problems you describe are exascerbated by a lack of content and PVP with a purpose for some of those players acting like bored children. That's why its important to incentivize those people elsewhere. Otherwise, this is an inherent HUMAN problem that CIG cannot ultimately control especially since their intention is to remove armistice zones and have consequences help regulate shitty behaviour. Beyond that, when it becomes persistent, targeted harassment or breaks TOS, that's when they can step in.
Yes the game is FAR from perfect and neither is the player base, but we've got a long way to go yet. I also think lots of players blow these negative encounters out of proportion, it has gotten a lot better IMO over the years.@@Ospray3151
@@DTOXTV maybe
Though 'acting like children' is a pure lack of maturity and discipline, sadly
It make me sad that you have to run a private servers for friends/guilds most of the time to avoid this
And not so sure they will ever be able to remove armistice zones, remember being killed in your hab doorway in a medical gown on the pyro test? Repeatedly?
Certain players will go for the easy kill every time and laugh doing it
Why do you think most pvp games have mechanism against spawn killing/camping and safe areas where you literally cannot dmg other player until they are able to and ready to defend themselves
The hard part of the "balencing risk vs reward," especially in with the current systems, is that pvp'ers dont really stand to lose anything camping out cargo runners who can lose everything in one death. Pvp'ers typically only stand to lose 1 set of gear (we'll say 15-20k) while the cargo runner who just spent 3+ million aUEC and here in near future, spent 1 hour loading their ship manually loading the cargo on their ship just to spend another hour unloading, just to get killed in the latter, loses so much more then the pvp'er stands to lose if killed by justifiable self defense.
CIG: PVE cargo dads, you better defend that DC against those PvPers! AI will back you up!
AI: stands on chairs
😂
/s
Looking forward to setting up scrims at these facilities
Since the first time I heard of a "Distribution Center", I thought; Maybe there will be landing accommodations for the smaller Hull series of ships, but there's no way a larger Hull ship should be able to safely land there, thus be limited to space station "Cargo Centers". ;-)
Well in 3.23, we *should* see Cargo Missions at truck stops too. I don't see why not.
There has been footage of larger ship's docked to some sort of tower, akin a zeppelins mooring mast. That may well be a tech preview of how larger Hull type ships could be going about planet side business.
Excellent video man ❤
I think the problem is that we have not yet seen or felt any of the in-game systems designed to shape player combat interactions.
It is still very black & white, you are in prison or you are not. We need long term reputation to push PvP if not completely to the fringes, at least away from major POI's.
I don't think it should be an endless misery to be red, but it's a bit too convenient currently.
I honestly think insurance should go back to only replacing stock components. If military grade components and weapons were then restricted with long term persistence it would add some actual risk to running red & some value to those items beyond aUEC.
I agree. I'm hoping DC's are showcasing some sort of 'hub' based rep, as seen in the bottom left corner with 'HD', it goes from yellow to red, im assuming some sort of hostility tracker with the current facility. That will help shape things a little more around the facility zone, but as far as running Red and insurance, I've been asking for that for ages. We need insurance to return stock ship/components only, give a little more risk to losing ships and choosing risky engagements.
Another great star citizen video DTOX!
I think the DC's are so big that PVP and PVE players could end up having their own missions at the same time in the same location without encountering each other. Conversely, I think it would be fun to have a delivery mission that takes you through a PVP battle area. Perhaps all CIG needs to do is provide a warning in the mission description to let players know before hand that they could be walking into danger. As for relatively safe PVE missions they could simply have so many DC's all over the place that PVP players won't bother to camp at any of them in hopes of catching an innocent delivery box driver in a Pisces.
Agreed I am sure they said as much in there last video with regards to the different companies and the DC’s
A big issue imo (like bunkers/stations) is the worry that each one will look exactly the same, copy & paste
yep agree wholeheartedly. different DC's with different levels of risk/reward is needed. a DC that has an all in one of every level mashed together will get CIG nothing but complaints.
Great video, but I want to see the chaos when they drop first time. Things will be interesting and many ragers and crazies will be born.
Its gonna be interesting to say the least! Very much looking forward to these.
It's gonna be bugged so much in the beginning anyways that I doubt much play around them works.
This is the worst idea they've had. Look...I've played open world PvP games like DayZ Mod...and the Epoch mod offered trade hubs which forced players into centralized areas and or forced players into interacting. These areas had to be given a no-fire zone hardcoded into the mod to keep players from griefing. Did it work? No. PvPers simply camped outside the no-fire zone griefing people as they came to or left the zone. This will be what happens with these distribution centers. They can not just throw everyone together and expect anything but chaos and grief.
Yup, the minute I cant play the way I want (PvE Coop), I will just turn in to a murderhobo and try to ruin PvP until that gets boring, then leave and never come back.
I'm not too worried, it's not like they are forcing us to be at the DCs. But they are certainly a new exciting location rather than just salvage yards.
One thing that I am afraid of DCs is how well the IA will work, becaus rightnow in the PU is dumbest as hell, and if CIG want a good gameplay arround this DCs the IA must work flawless
Distribution Centers? Don't you mean Bunkers 2.0
It's going to be a cluster orgy of epic proportions. There will only be pvp experiences when you have two or more strangers at the same location. Unless the criminal penalty is high but why would it be if weapons are free?
The PVP Slider might be a good idea in some games but unlikely to work for Star Citizen unless it's going to stay a low fixed player cap per server. I don't know if this is their long term aim or if they want everyone to be able to see everyone else in the same area ala EvE Online.
It's going to be interesting to see if Star Citizen is FUN.
The PVP slider idea is trash, literally the epitome of pathetic. But if they wanted to go that route, then they would need to include some kind of penalty system for those who seek a non-pvp setting. Something like a 70% reduction on all profits earned, meaning anything you sell with pvp disabled, you will only male 30% of the profits. So if you sell a 100K you'll only get 30k, because if you don't want to assume the risk then you don't deserve the entire reward. And to ensure that players don't abuse this, anything picked up or interacted with while PVP is disabled will mark the item so that when you sell it you automatically receive 70% less profit. That is the only way that would work, and if you disagree with this then your initial argument is invalid.
Chris's words from the past about PvE/PvP and CIG's implementation in the present don't match up at all.
Exactly how I feel and why I rarely play and stopped funding this mess awhile ago.
These were pitched as end game content so it makes sense DCs are super hard. The amount of ground to air turrets are no joke, although I feel 20 of them are overkill. Basically attempting one of these without a ground vehicle is next to impossible if you are solo, land your ship right outside of the trespassing zone and your off to the AI in DCs are absurdly tough and their AI is wall hack esp cheater level player good.
All cig need is places that are lawless and high sec areas that are heavily patrolled by NPC cops with super wealons and bounty hunting players. Thats it. The jail system works well to get them out of the way with a time out for a few hours.
This is why CIG's game "design" will never make any sense what so fricking ever. Regardless of the owner's disposition there is simply no way any faction with fleets of Hull-E's loaded with credits invested in such a facility (intended SOLELY to perpetually pump more fleets full of credits into their banks accounts) would ever allow or even risk any bull-shittery at all to interfere with said credit pumping..... Do modern organized crime groups, drug cartels etc let just any random scumbags go around screwing shit up because "hey we're all criminals right?". No, they don't, they quickly and unceremoniously delete any such wannabes because ITS STILL A BUSINESS that they run for the express purpose of MAKING MONEY, not to be constantly repairing, rebuilding, and filling in bomb craters.
But hey it's just a game, I guess it has to be stupid to work at all, because CIG apparently doesn't have the collective common sense to "develop" a sack lunch. That and they think literally everything has to be an FPS map first, everything else is secondary.
Great idea sparking video mate! Cant wait for DCs! Lots of Org Shenanigans soon!
Everyone jumping to conclusions with pretty minimal information. Like you said, we won't know until they're here. No need for everyone to get their crusty panties in a bundle.
True, we can speculate and discuss based on information presented though and healthy speculation is fun and part of being a backer.
@@DTOXTV I agree healthy speculation is fun, and I think your video was well formatted in that regard, but the majority of the discussion taking place on reddit and elsewhere is heavy speculation that is rather negative. People should form their opinion once it's on EPTU/PTU, and until then just voice what they hope to see.
@@Kanzaz Ah, gotcha. That's fair, I haven't seen much of the crusty panty bundling as you mentioned over there... Yet.
nicely done mate! frm gdajibb ;)
sigh... every time they try this it just turns into a pvp sweatlord central. no way the pvp sweatlords will let people have anything else but whtat they want.
There is no problem....this is intended....this is the game I paid for and waited for......and waited for.....and waited for....
What about the PVP slider?!
@@DTOXTV It was never real, just a hidden preference when you enter a shard. The context of that video never stated there would be a hard slider anywhere nor should there be.
We are also in a testing environment, player type are going to and need to clash in order to see what happens and what changes need to be made.
PVE community freaks out over violence and PVP community freaks out over any change to the flight model. In 10 years this has remained the only constant.
I was joking, but yeah. @@vengefuldevil5195
The motivation of many PvP'ers isnt monetary. Its tears and lols they want. So those types will gravitate to PvE focused areas where they will continually test the defenses against their unwanted behavior. In other words, griefers will always find a way to ruin PvE players enjoyment of the game they want to play unless you can completely wall them off, ala PvP slider or separate servers/instances. The sad fact is most PvP'ers want loot pinatas to ambush and rarely seek to engage in a fair fight, while PvE'ers want nothing more than to be left alone to enjoy their particular playstyle in peace.
All these people that are crying for their total immune safe space.. 😂 have fun.
PVE is going to be very impossible there...
Boomer rage incoming, they hate interacting with other players in a multiplayer game😂
Define Interacting?
You mean working out deals to get more done, hire escorts or share info etc ?
Or do you mean pew pew at anyone you don't know because pvp is life?
How many Boomers even play video games?
@@misstressscarlet basically any of those things, you talk to them ingame, they never ever respond to you, if they get crime stat, they hole up in GH waiting for next wipe, if you kill them, they will rant about unfair fight and griefing
I hate gamers who play multiplayer pvp games and have the audacity to complain that there's pvp. Go play No Mans Sky and be pathetic there (aimed at CZcamsr)
@KalinoursEU ever factor in that you may be annoying asf to play with/talk to? Your posts being evidence, and the common denominator of that issue is you, since it spans any game.
@@KalinoursEUi think you mistaking boomer for typical casual in this game. Every boomer i know that is playing Star Citizen is talking about old good times in Eve Online, where they were collecting tears of every crying babie that they capsuled in nullsec. Or meabe they dont want to talk with you just because they mistake you for every other kid that is playing fortnite or lol. Sometimes sht happens you know ;)
I expect the AI to be as stupid as usual so PVE for me will still be a painful experience. PVP deathmatch in a DC in Arena Commander, however, would be awesome, though.
Mostly - because PvP in Star Citizen currently sucks ballz.
This is no overwatch, butterysmooth gameplay we're talking here.
Add to that the dozen other ways to die, including your ship murdering you AND the 20+min time sink each time you die.
Yes.. i can see how DC's are going to raise a ruckus in the community.
DCs are pretty useless until the server player cap increases substantially you can often find tiny places like brios empty. PVP interaction is minor unless you are doing something on the fringe or you come across someone more interested in greefing than actual pvp
These things will be abandoned once a shiny new Pyro drops.
You fail to account for players who dont care at all about the financial incentives. Greycatas you described iy would be the better target for them
I didn't fail to account for them, you just can't control them, you can only disincentivize them. That's what many players need to realize. You're never 100% safe, CIG can only do so much.
Im convinced that CIG hates PvE players and players that only have 1 or 2 buddies to play with. I sweat at work enough already, i don't wanna come home and hop on my favorite space game and sweat more just because some dude with a fragile little ego needs to get his jimmies off killing players that are just trying to mind their own business and mine asteroids or move legal cargo around.
CIG has created huge empty universe and now their idea is to cramp all players and all game loops at one place... Does it makes sense? I don't think so...
i dont see the problem , the game is anyway in a tech demo .
im guessing ...terraforming terrain , placing claim on a planets...forming alliances , designing and building bases , farming ground .expanding tech. to be able to advance into orbital stations and defences isnt going to be implemented......to bad .........
Base building is coming, as shown at CitCon, but if you want the other stuff, maybe wait for Star Citizen 2 and play it with your grandkids!
Get good or get off. Simple
The game is PvPvE. The various camps can mald, especially the care bears.
nice vid
umm "most players" no most players dont play let alone want a a cluster fuck.
I think these things are going to be a shit fest at the start ( something i welcome lol ) and then prob will tune them with missions and what not later down the line.. im just happy we are getting new content
and dont get me stated on the star map .. that alone is a fkn must have lol.
o7
Im in the same boat. I bet CIG will embrace the chaos initially, then dial it back to a good middle ground. My thoughts were really aiming at what I'd *like* to see these become.
@@DTOXTV to be fair mate, these things are made for TOW ;-)))
Is distribution Center safe😅
Oh man lol, yes, this will be a thing.
Isn't this like the box delivery at Ghost Hollow during a PVP event on steroids.
This verse is becoming more and more a group only game. A BS get gude GAME. When it could have been so much more.
if your not in a click it will suck ,,,,, you will get ganged up on non stop
ehhh thats often not the case i've found but it can be, orgs are a major part of the game and being a solo player is more difficult and thats reality, generally solo players wouldn't be attempting these types of things anyways even if it is only pve without some backup or something.
It's like eve online, there are higher and lower security zones all the way to null sec with different rewards ratios and so on for the risk, there's also technically a system to enable pvp with the red bar which is only good around null sec, and a yellow that means if you do something illegal or whatever you can be safely targeted by a green player and killed and so on, from what they're talking about is a somewhat similar idea.
As it would be in reality. Though the problem is that most people play it as a video game where CIG is trying to make an immersive sci fi simulator with pvp. No fix for it. Just make contacts in the verse if not friends and hope they remember you helped them out one time I guess.
And learn to RUN you can't kill what you can't catch.
Hot advice: If commarray is off don't go there ^^
On or off, if I see an opportunity why would you not take it? The punishment isn’t severe.
@@tj7094 myself as an example, i am avoiding cs3 as much as i can. Turrets will blow your ship. God marker for bounty hunters. No cooldown for good guys if they die (one mistake and i am in Klesher), they just coming back wave after wave.
@@rixxo fair enough
I don't know but watching whoever plays this demos makes me angry.. Should a person who is not able to hit a f*ing barndoor (eg at 7:30) from 3 yards distance really be involved in making fps design decisions? Plus: Using shotguns in SC is one of the most disappointing experiences i've ever had in a game!
So what lol 😂 people complain about anything
Shit game anyway
Still isn't data running, not interested in loop. It'll just be my money printer.
i dont enjoy this kind of narative, you have no idea what is coming, we dont have even a evocati version of 3.23 but the speculation and moaning is already all over the place.
There is no problem before there is, this kind of video is maybe appropriate when you actually see what we get.... geez
Speculating about features myself and others are excited about is fun though, and Star Citizens most consistent loop.
Yeah. That's how wars start and catastrophes unravel. By sitting steady while watching it closing in from a mile away, and waiting until it's actually there. Just like Oreo ice cream.
It’s scary to imagine how unbalanced these new zones will be and how many bugs there will be. They haven’t been able to bring small bunkers into working condition for more than 5 years...and what will happen to the new and larger zones. in one of the latest patches they added new zones of “interest”... it would be better not to add them. it is unclear how and what they tested before adding, if NONE of the “new” zones work. The technical condition of this “online store” is complete fucking shit. The main thing is that people donate as much as possible and buy ships.