Ranking Every Army in Warhammer 40k - What Is the New Competitive Meta?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Come join Nick and Richard as they dive into the new meta and rank where every single army in the entire game of Warhammer 40,000 will fall after the April MFM!
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0:00 Intro
8:00 Space Marines
14:00 Chaos Knights
18:25 Drukhari
23:00 Custodes
32:48 Chaos Deamons
40:19 Votann
45:37 Mechanicus
52:48 Sisters of Battle
57:05 Tyranids
1:02:32 Death Guard
1:09:11 Blood Angels
1:15:23 Chaos Marines
1:18:08 Genestealers
1:2137 Spacewolfs
1:25:15 World Eaters
1:29:19 Imperial Guard
1:34:20 Aeldari
1:38:19 Black Templar
1:41:39 Orks
1:46:45 Dark Angels
1:49:31 Death Watch
1:56:30 Necrons
2:01:01 Grey Knights
2:05:42 Imperial Knights
2:08:35 Thousand Sons
2:13:02 T'au
#warhammer40klists
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#warhammer 40k 10th edition
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#10th edition 40k
#10thed40k
#warhammer
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#10th edition battle report
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#ADWIP - Hry
8:00 Space Marines
14:00 Chaos Knights
18:25 Drukhari
23:00 Custodes
32:48 Chaos Deamons
40:19 Votann
45:37 Mechanicus
52:48 Sisters of Battle
57:05 Tyranids
1:02:32 Death Guard
1:09:11 Blood Angels
1:15:23 Chaos Marines
1:18:08 Genestealers
1:2137 Spacewolfs
1:25:15 World Eaters
1:29:19 Imperial Guard
1:34:20 Aeldari
1:38:19 Black Templar
1:41:39 Orks
1:46:45 Dark Angels
1:49:31 Death Watch
1:56:30 Necrons
2:01:01 Grey Knights
2:05:42 Imperial Knights
2:08:35 Thousand Sons
2:13:02 T'au
you, dear sir, are a man of true honor.
thanks!
Thx bro 👍
As another person in chat stated, it's really hard to distinguish one faction from another in the chart. May I humbly suggest a change in the icons displayed? Lager, perhaps? I can recognized 'em on GW's download page, but hardly on the AoW chart. For example, "Is the the GK sword on the left or is that the Custodes' banner?" Plus the font is super tiny. During the discussion and afterward, what say a change to make them easier to see? :) I did ask this in chat, but leaving here can help remember. Thanks, guys.
In their defence they've tried so many different faction icons over the years and there are always complaints
I suppose my challenge is that I often watch these videos on my phone…
@@jamesteal8253 It's 2024, everyone is watching this on a phone.
Just use text or larger pictures, there's plenty of room in the tier maker. If they are only going to use five tiers, you don't need small logos.
Also, add a giant banner text on the top announcing what they are presently talking about.
Holy shit, they did just the last thing after 01:28:00, hot damn, now do that from the start next time.
Putting Tyranids alongside Eldar feels wild, and completely at odds with Richard’s comments on Nids in the previous video.
Way better audio in the studio. Thank you.
Sad that it's still D tier
They need a directional mic. Would fix the audio completely
I think it would be quite an interesting development if the AoW team were to present these rankings as ranges instead of simply skill-ceiling rankings in a sort of waterfall-style graph. For the non-john-lennons of the world, seeing A-tier nids could be a bit confusing.
I know this tier list is about competitive play on the ceiling, but I think its hard to ignore the 40% -45% win rate for Nids, and even if the army is capable of achieving wins by your description of the tiers I would say is B, in no way shape of form I think Nids are warping the meta around them, they adjust to it and have to punch up, also let's not ignore the fact that most Nids players are frustated at how the army plays, we require cheese with biovores and gargoyle to work, its not fun having to feel I'm always fighting an uphill battle and most of the time being tabled "effectively", also our lists are boring to play internal balance is awful we're being hard carried by a couple of very good datasheets.
Yeah, kinda hard to understand how anyone could put bugs in A-tier.
I don't play nids but I play against a couple buddies with them and I have to agree with the original above comment
Yeah. Nids have one very specific playstyle that cae do well in competitive based on a few very good datasheets and very hard to pilot.
I think they could virtually buff their entire faction with +1S and their winrate would go up by just a few percentage points, because it doesn't buff their current playstyle a lot.
@@FrankSGuerra Hard to understand is exactly what comes to my mind as well. Art of War has been making really questionable claims recently. Its as though they dont play these armies and will just put up random numbers up there just for content's sake.
@@cyberjonesyone of their players is actually one of the best tyranid players in the world so I wouldnt throw in assumptions like this that easily.
Theres just a huge skill cap and discrepancy between very good competitive and other tyranids players, which is totally fine and even desirable, but I agree that neither the cheese competitive meta nor the fluffy tyranid list feel like a tyranid army should feel.
Space Marines need to be based on the codex alone, no supplement units considered. If you look as SM that way you see a lot of weakness, thus lowing them.
Agreed. Space Marines with Black Templar units should not be ranked as SM but BT
Love this folks. Loving the new live editing, and inserts.. Continuing to get more and more professional presentation to match the best competitive 40k channel by a million miles!
This tier list makes me feel like these guys are out of touch. There's one guy in the whole world who's our buddy who can make tyranid's work sometimes A tier. Okay........
Art of War "I know a dude who won a GT with this army therefore they are A tier" Tier List
I’m not sure about the awkward lounge chairs guys, but loved the discussion
What was John’s record with the Tyranids during the team event this last weekend?
Great ranking episode, love the detailed and objective discussion. Keep the content comming!!
people constantly forget the first thing ya'll constantly mention that these are estimates based on top players with the army vs other top players with other armies, in multiple comeptitive environments not just singles. Team play brings a whole different element to an armies viability, function and even composition.
too many salty people about some of the lower % armies from GW singles being rated higher than the people who normally play them.
its based on highest level play, highest level players, highest level environments, and in most cases they are using them as functional cornerstones in team play for disrupting opponent matrix options
I feel like the audio is better than the ones previous lives, but there is an echo when you guys talk. Love the new space. Cant wait to see more improvements. Love one of the few comp admech players.
Excellent review and thanks so much for the time stamps !! ❤❤
I disagree. Dark Angels terminators are not hard to kill. My local meta chews through them. Orks have more dice to through so overwhelming numbers means you lose models. Dhrukari melee has chewed through my guys easily. I do not understand where terminators are incredibly tough and difficult to kill; i want to play there.
Zoom in on your faces, chests and shoulders, find a middle smaller taller table for your favorite minis, hang some of your trophies and stuff on the walls. Immediate upgrade. Thanks for a great video guys!!
Tyanids in A tier... I'm sorry, did this just get uploaded from a few years ago by mistake? They had the 3rd worst winrate at high ELO last data slate, and their best unit got a point increase. Boggles the mind honestly.
I think it’s because all these folks get bodied by a very good Tyranid player, and they are very good in teams. Hard to win with them, but they don’t loose by a lot.
A tier? Tyranids are just Admech without the ability to kill shit. I do think they are better than Admech though.
Gargoyles being the "best datasheet in the game?" They die every turn they come down, t3 6+ save for 170 pts?. I have to assume I'm just lacking the player skill to make them work.
What some factions get for 170 pts...
Nids have play against basically everything at the very top end of the game. This is what this tier list is based on. It's not a list on the general state of the game, where I'd agree that Nids are probably in D tier amongst the bottom 3-4 armies.
@theStamax if what you're saying is true, why do they lose at the top tables so often?
@@seizurejames5862 Tyranids are admech with the power to kill shit*
Enjoyable video!
I think codex SM have to be ranked based on only the codex though, and then BT etc can be ranked based on their ability to use the codex detachments.
The codex on its own isn't top of A, and I think that's what that entry should represent.
Loads of books/ indices need better internal balance. The only way to do that is to adjust rules and in some cases split data sheets (ie: wraithknight sword and board).
The meta would be healthier if you didn't know with ~90% certainty what certain factions are bringing in their lists.
Have them lean into their fluff: make monstrous Tyranids truly scary again, have Eldar be expensive but surgically devastating, release more models/ support existing models and data sheets for Xenos (Genestealers/ Votann), and why did they put so many Ork models/ data sheets into Legends?
1:27:00 lmao okay were getting a little hyperbolic here... angron isn't flat damage 6, and 3 Exalted need several buffs and some solid luck to take down a big knight.
The only things that get a 5+++ fnp are x8b and jakhals. Spawn get a 4+++ but those are minimal in impact.
World eaters really lack in unit variety. Which is why all you see are 8b.
Deathwatch gonna be merged into the agents codex, watch
😭😭😭😭😭
*Insert squinting Chang gif*
That is a lot of factions SHAHEEESH
Was scrolling to find the "Tier list for ants" was not disappointed!
Loved the stream as always! Here's to hoping DW get remembered in the dataslate change this time
What did they smoke to label Tyranids as A- ? At least is C+. Since 10th started I hardly win games and in tournaments I usually do 1 win 2 loss or 3 win 3 loss and most of the times the wins are against weak players…. Nothing compared to what we lived in 8th and 9th edition. It’s very frustrating right now….
maybe you’re just bad
@@im_flat or maybe not and the army is awful to play. Who the heck trusts their comments that a unit of gargoyles surrounded a Land Raider Redeemer and the other player didn’t overwatch? Also, the general 40-45% win rate it’s self explanatory to not consider Tyranids as an A level army…
@@guiye200188because you can only overwatch once, they may have baited the overwatch elsewhere already. Or the opponent may not have had the CP for it.
Art of War "I know a dude who won a GT with this army therefore they are A tier" Tier List
Thanks Nick and Seigs
Art of War "I know a dude who won a GT with this army therefore they are A tier" Tier List
I am not sure we read the same Dark Angels Datasheets.
Wonderful stuff
That tau prediction has to be the biggest miss of all time. Literally impossible to be further away with that.
Keep underestimating Guard and they keep winning GTs 😂
This list is only for the competitive players
how do you suppose to do it otherwise? easiest army to play?
They stated that.
this channel is for competitive players lol
World Eaters being fun to play? haha maybe if we were back in 9th. Great video overall however gents.
idk what you’re on but im very much enjoying playing my world eaters, they run incredibly fast and punch people in the face!
RIP Custodes man
Surpsied to see Tau so far up there, let's see!
S tier if you are a pro rated player. B tier if you're an average player. If you make a small movement mistake you're dead.
@@TwitchyMofo where do they stand if I run 200 kroot and irresponsibly charge them at everything
@@DeaconBluesClues depends who you're fighting. Could go really well or really poorly.
Been trying to figure them out. I fear my challenge is that their optimized playstyle may not resonate with me.
@@jamesteal8253 Well luckily there's more play styles now.
Besides Tau and Necrons which factions were ranked as S tier ?
I think necrons increases on c'tan are ok, problem is with how many of them there are, you seriously wanna tell me that nightbringer that dies to lasgun fire with lethal hits cos of 4+, 4++ and with 6" movement should cost the same as yncarne? You sure? 🤔 I'd say it needs other type of restriction, like... 1 shard per 1k pts, or one shard per one epic hero or sth like that
Can hardly see the faction icons
As a T'au-only player, I am curious how people are playing mont'ka right now? Specifically, in the vid they say you keep advance and shoot all game, but that is not how the rule reads to my eye (seems all effects end after turn 3, not just lethals). Also, whether or not people are attaching the 'required' gun drones to allow the advance and shoot if guided thing to work RAW
You get assault all game. The rule says turn 1 to 3 you get lethal hits period. If you are spotted you get assault period.
@@Speeds_Gaming_Corner see, I wasn't sure because they tacked on 'as well' at the end, and also it's weird mont'ka gets anything at all for the whole game while kauyon gets absolutely nothing until it activates. If that's how people are playing it, though, I'm not gonna argue against it!
Codex Marines should be judged by Codex Marines, alone. They get punished for any of the Divergent Chapters doing much better with Codex rules than Codex Marines themselves ever could. Games Workshop needs to stop Divergent Chapters from being able to dip into Codex Marines' detachments so they can stop this game of spinning plates that they made for themselves trying to balance Codex Marines out.
Awesome but can we zoom in next time? :)
my drukhari are B tier .. moving up in the world..
Whew those shorts are tight!!!
As a more casual Tau player I hope a lot that we get point increases, but not to the level of codex points (because even with the new rules, a lot of datasheets will be dead then). Even so, I very much suspect that we will pretty much only see Mont'ka being played for the remaining edition which sucks. Retaliation Cadre may see some play, but frankly it's just very limiting in the units it really works with (like crisis, ghostkeel, riptide, stealth suits ... that's about it).
Kauyon is still a meme and arguably worse than it was in the index. Even if it's the same power, it'll just be worse off due to the game being balanced around Mont'ka.
The Kroot detachment is pretty much a meme too since the datasheets are just so bad. If they are incredibly cheap you may be able to make them work and fill out the roster with good Tau units, but I don't think we'll see that anytimes soon.
Overall, yeah Tau in Mont'ka will be good. Still not a great Codex. Especially when compared to Orks, which is by far the best Codex this edition up till now. And I don't necessarily mean best with regards to power (which can always change), but in variety of fun playstyles that you can feasibly do (with every detachment bringing something different). Even Necrons isn't a particularly great Codex imo. It's held up by a few criminally undercosted units and 1-2 detachments. And let's not even get started on Tyranids and Admech ...
I also play tau, and I also wish our codex didn't look so lopsided. I'm really excited to play mont'ka in competitive scenes, but I don't know if the playstyle will be fun for casual games (for myself or the opponent). It feels like, if you are serious about the game, you *must* play mont'ka, and picking anything else is essentially handicapping yourself. Really no way to fix that either, with the way it's designed working with all units in the codex - you can't bump 'the mont'ka units' points without also nerfing one or more of the other detachments.
Guess we'll just have to see!
@@crashstarr6531 yeah that's the problem. Montka is universally good so you can't really buff the other detachments via points (except kroot, but then you just have a more severe admech problem).
Retaliation Cadre might see some play tbh. It has 2 very powerful strats and solid detachment boni if you build around it. So i think we'll see it as well for sure.
But yeah... Generally it's very lobsided.
The alien rising.
Not trying to be mean but please read the chats at the end. It breaks up the flow so badly
As a White Scar player, l don't feel the codex to be true to my army theme .
Nick claiming there being no feet in the video as if that’s a positive!
Does this make Nick a Rob Liefeld fan? 😉
Yeah, the Space Wolf detachment is just horrifyingly bad...
Just use the codex images to represent factions guys. The current ones kinda suck
Thank you for everything you do guys. Still putting together my Custodes models but im a PhD student over at UCF right now and its a slow process. When it does happen do you all know of a good store here in Orlando to go and learn how to play?
Layton Games is the best game store near Orlando!
@@ArtofWar40k thank you guys, i bought my terminators from there. Awesome to know!
Where can I watch Siegler put someone in AdMech jail?
There is a 2 hour video of his 5 round tournament recap with them that demonstrates his move blocking and trap plays in the war room at thewarroom.vhx.tv
Losing the psychic phase made GK very bland. Basically just a weird SM divergent chapter. Psychic powers were so much better of a mechanic, and they could have just rolled them into the phases they make sense in (i.e. shooting phase for mortals, movement for teleports, command phase for buffs)
Have you played GK? it's one of the most unique army to play in 10th, with insane mobility and escape potential (although i'm not a fan of the NDK heavy army, they are pretty boring to play in mass).
It's both strong and very different than any marines army out there, i love it. I've been playing GK since they have models and they are at their most fun currently.
@@julienhuguenin5139 Yeah, I have played GK for a few editions now. And I stand by every word I said.
Siegs getting heated over the SW lol
I don’t want Tau to be bad but never have I had as little fun playing as when they are really good. Hopefully they find a good balance to them sooner than later. Great tier review! Thanks
I think they're boring if you play them with excessive suits and tanks but fun if you run them with tons of t3 infantry
Putting nids in A is pure copium
Eh, I think a lot of the lists getting FNP access with minimal adjustment will drastically increase their board durabiliry
Gargoyles are too strong ?! Dude put some bolters in your army THEY ARE T3 FFS !!!!
They do still have strong stratagems and detachments. They’re datasheets are a little underpowered fs, but they keep getting cheaper and cheaper. Idk about A, but B-B+ is pretty reasonable
I think you should be asking yourself why do the best players see this army differently than you. And finding that out might help!
@@cyberjonesy Their power comes from shutting down your movement phase by sitting 1" in front of your most powerful units and preventing them from moving to make a charge, get angles for shooting, or take an objective. It doesn't matter if they survive the shooting phase or not, by then their job is done.
Impossible to watch on the phone. Need at least a 65' TV
custodes are C-tier guys, probably one of the worst right now... everything that made them work is gone and they are horribly overcosted and fragile
Lol guard not even B tier. Brutal
Guard are B tier
Nids S tier.
Link for tier ?
Love the video but your audio in this environment sucks
Downvoted for lack of feet.
Hey guys, great video.
I disagree with Admechs placement in C tier. I think they belong in D tier because not only are they a weak faction but they're also one of the most expensive $$$ factions to buy even at a 3rd party retailer discount. I think the tier lists should take into account the availability of models and their price when factoring in how good an army is. If I have to spend like $500 to make my 9th edition admech army good in 10th because now admech have bad rules and their points values have therefore been dropped massively that REALLY sucks and should put you lower.
As a contrast, when it comes to my marines, I've not had to buy any new stuff between editions to keep my marines good and strong on the table. All my 10th ed marine purchases have only been because i love the look of the new kits, not because I need to run out and buy a bunch of stuff to stay competitive.
TL;DR -take price into account
Love all the comments saying "WDYM THAT X FACTION IS (insert tier here)??!! HAVE YOU NOT LOOKED AT THE WIN RATES.
Video starts off with *this list does not take WR into account*
Reading comp at an all time low
Nyds in A… one of the worst WR…. We nyds players are just pretending by avoiding winning events and artificially lowering the x-1 ratings. Must be a workdwide conspiracy then. We are A tier, sure
Comedy
Jeez. This comments section is feeling salty AF on this vid. Chill peeps
Bro is crying about Tau so much dude, yes they’re good but just wait and see jfc half the army is still made of paper
Hard agree on points though. Fix rules not cheaper points!!
Wtf? Doomstalkers do not need to go up lmfao
To summarize a lot of comments. Tyranids do not kill the enemy like they did in 9th edition. They have a strength and ap issue to cut down tanks with armor of contempt. However, the army is a wild points factory and if you lean into those elements you can keep the score of most games close.
13 minutes in before the first faction hit the board, and a neon of your own logo... Sorry, no
Black Templars RC in A-Tier while having 46percent winrate? NEVER. They are good B Tier at best.
Pretty sure they say this every tier list winrate is not 100% indicative of strength. Especially when it comes to space marines which are the most popular new player faction. Also these guys are not infallible they may get a few things wrong I don’t think it’s worth getting pressed over
This list is awful
Wrong way to do space marines - categorizing by detachment and not unit is a major mistake imo. You just annoy every codex marine player when you say "oh, they're all the same because they use the same detachment
In the opening they literally say top tier players hands, not at all an overall tierlist. Nids in a top players hands, team formats, etc, is solid.
And this is based on what data?
@@winsol Solely on John Lennon data.