Port Matching, Porting And Trenching Two-Stroke Engine Cases
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2019
- Port matching and porting or trenching the cases for my big bore stroker 103cc Minarelli engine and discussing the process and information about it. Taking a quick look at racing engine cases and a Yamaha engine that exhibit the same ideas.
Here's a link to more pics of case work from members of the 49ccScoot.Com forums :
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread...
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Single cut carbide burrs : amzn.to/31ut1NB
Double cut carbide burrs : amzn.to/3rubbp6
Foredom SR : amzn.to/3di4nCM
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#twostroke #porting #2T - Auta a dopravní prostředky
One thing to keep in mind, when you cut away from the crank case and increase volume, when the piston comes down to pressurize the crankcase, it can not create as much pressure to push into the cylinder with.
Stuff crank w cork and epoxy.
Speed secrets of a16yr
If your pipe is working as it should the volume in the crank case doesn't matter.
The pipe will suck the mixture for you.
@@rippn6124 Rebalance your rotating assembly after doing such a thing.
@@gislemark79 That absolutely is not true.
@@rippn6124 No thank you.
I have a buddy who did this with with a 70cc 2fast cylinder and the power it makes is insane. The information in this video is invaluable.
Leave a rough finish on areas where fuel / air mix is travelling and polish exhaust till it's shiny. Rough surfaces help with atomization of your mixture and you want the exhaust to have the least amount of friction you can deliver.
Excellent video. Thank you for taking the time to explain everything and edit this!
Very interesting as always hoping for more uploads from you thnx for taking the time to share your ideas
Wish i had youtube with this content back in 1998 when i was tuning my piaggio typhoon 70cc. Well me and my friends were selflearning back then with all the pros and cons hahaha. Nice video!
MrRoger13th in 1997 I got a brand new yellow piaggio zip sp , bloody loved it just with a Leo vince exhaust it did 55mph . I sold it as soon as turned 17 and got a car I've been trying to find another for the last 5 years or so 🤣
Pretty sure this is the best porting video available !
Every one of his videos a extremely informative and in depth
This video was awesome! The amount of detail and information was far more then I expected. Now I don’t have butterflies in my stomach thinking about porting my own.
There was a segment were you showed two casings where one had sharp edges with no lead in angle. The other had rounds and drafts as we call them in the biz. The one with sharp edges was done by someone who doesn’t understand or has a clue of production casting methods. While the casting with rounds was done by someone who did the design by industry standards and understands the added benefits when designed into the part.
It sure is both a helpful and interesting video that gives out an accurate picture of what needs to be done and how when porting and trenching 2-stroke engine block👌🏻.Being an organized/structured guy myself, it's pretty clear that all the steps of the process have been really well layed out and explained since these are all delicate operations that offer little to no room for mistakes. Enjoyed a lot watching this as I feel I've learned immensely without having had the opportunity to do it in real life so far,👍🏻🙋🏻♂️.
Thank you!
WOW that's gotta be the best porting DIY guide I've ever seen for bottom ends on the Internet 😮
Nice work ! Have been using this technic in snowmobile application to. Works very well.
A squirt of bluing into a 2 stroke spun externally can reveal the major patterns in flow.
Testing the reeds to identify the relative crank position is possible with the tiny vision equipment and data acquisition available now plus a little ingenuity.
2 Stroke Stuffing has been very interesting to follow in his quest for the illusive 50cc holy grail.
Peace.
If you dont mind me making a suggestion. I actually recommend the double cut carbide/tungsten burrs WITH a soft wax instead of WD-40. It will unclog the flutes, and makes for a very smooth cutting process and prevents grabbing of your work piece. Just insert your cutting bit into the wax while still spinning your cutting tool. Repeat the process frequently. Youll notice the difference in ease of your cut, no vibration or turbulence.
He's removing huge amounts of aluminum, you want a single cut, spiral, or high-helix burr on aluminum always when reshaping aluminum.
I see you porting very meticulously and accurately😊👍👍👍
i dont even have a 2T but man i love watching your videos. they're very educational. thanks.
If you'd switch over to a two-stroke you could change your name to Big Bore On One Wheel.
@@49ccscoot i may or may not be going one wheel four-stroke soon. ill be building from scratch so it should be fun...hopefully.
if things go well with that build I've been thinking about venturing into the two-stroke world.
Perfect. Nice to see You back for real :D
This is a good channel! I'm really enjoying :) Keeps mood up too! Cheers! :D
excellent tips and camerawork, thanks for a great video.
I found this video well made.
Narration was articulate with definitive terms and thought out before presentation.
Lighting and video shot well.
Overall, the topic was addressed and explained in terms that explained the objective. Good examples were shown and solutions addressing theory.
Good Job.
* I got something out of it.
Confirming some ideas and building new ones.
Thanks for the kind words!
Impressive amount of work for possibly little gain. Still worth doing and the video is presented in an instructive manner, thumbs up!
2:59 brilliant, I've had a hallway chair problem for a long time. Got my dremel out, 3 days later it's ground away to only a tiny piece of wood with enough clear through way and direct path down my hallway. Thanks so much!
Hey man, great video!
Iv just ordered myself a gasket kit and im going to split my bock and take the pathways out a touch and clean them up.
Iv been messing with a 40cc poulan chainsaw.
Did some clean up on both intake and exhaust ports, opened the muffler a bit and dialed the carb in. BIG gains. 18 inches of green poplar in 18 seconds. *video on my channel*
Again thanks a million!
just be sure u take out ur block not ur buba bock
I always screwed in some small screws under the porthole filling
If if comes loose, wel you know
Cilinder skirts needs some work too
If they interrupt flow
They don’t need to be that big
Same for the piston
Lots of weight and skirts can be removed
5 gram removal on a piston is huge increase
in move up and down
The lighter the piston the better
The best vid on porting
Top
Great video, had some hard to hear places when grinding but other then that, great vid and much appreciated
Thankyou very much! After looking at my 1e40qmb case and Minerelli Zuma, it’s clear there is more meat on the case for porting on the 1e40qmb.
The port maps thread on your forum I plan on using in the near future!
I haven't really checked out that area on the Zuma cases, but I know the clones have more meat left when you do a stroker crank.
Be real careful, most transfer ports are already too large and enlarging them more kills the velocity of the fuel charge.
@@darrellkelso9915 interesting, that was my worry sort of lowered compression filling, we used to pack any holes in the crank with car cor plugs to raise the transfer vacum/ compression of gas up wards.
Ahhhhh I have the 5BM engine so looks like most of the work will be done for me.. S6 street race 70cc kit.. Thanks for linking this its great info.
On aluminum I used 60 or 80 grit sanding cones. They're fast enough for me and slow enough to keep me from destroying case's or ports. They work really good on 4 stroke ports
It's like porting heads, only with the head cut in half! Haha. Great video, you got me looking for a deal on a 2T!
They're alot of fun to tinker on for SURE
When you use JB Weld or Devcon on cases or heads, heat the item in the oven to about 90degC before you put the glue in, it will dry in a matter of minutes, but more importantly this is done to give the strongest adhesion to the aluminium.
When workshop work actually becomes a work of art.
I think the cut cases for the larger crank balance the volume of material removed by the trenching. Nice maticulous work.
I had a honda elite 49cc that I just cleaned up all the transfer ports, mostly with emery wheels. Put back togethe, the scooter would rev quicker and pulled much harder. Yes it does help "stock" motors, mostly in breathing.
Very informative, thank you.
I port the heads of my 4 strokes if they need it as well, some castings are shit and have horrible ports so a bit of time and a rotary sorts that out! Some bikes you dont notice any change and others are like you've summoned and saddled Lucifer himself! But as of yet no dyno proof!
Great all round video on porting, got a Peugeot 49cc I'm thinking of boring to take the 100cc cylinder and using the 125cc BB kit!
Will have to check some of your other videos out!
Disposable ear plugs are great for sealing holes for filling, painting and even general penetrations in house floors for speaker wire etc. Especially good for small holes and pretty easy to remove even when painted.
Amazing video, thanks a lot!!!
Great video. Clear and to the point. Just so the kids know, "polishing" the ports is a BAD thing. The air fuel mixture will form droplets on the smooth surface due to surface tension. It should be no more than around 220 grit with a random scratch pattern.
Polish the exhaust port, this stops carbon from adhering to the port wall and dropping flow. You are correct regarding intake ports but the reason is the same as why a golf ball looks as it does, it creates turbulence at the surface allowing less edge effect (slowing of air at the surface)
Shot peened ports are my personal favorite but difficult
Good work! All understand without words 👏
I'm impressed. I imagine a bit of a lost art form. Goodonyou and thanks
Great video.... Thanks for the info.
I really appreciate your time and experience. I am thinking about matching a 1987 Minarelli V1 engine. Not because of power or anything, I just want to do it for the experience, and maybe a bit smoother running, and this video explains all the critic points of that. Thank very much.
Okkkkkkmkkkkko
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Great video !
Good video👌🏼
Very good video!
Nice video buddy!
thank you master for inspieation...
This is good, i dont like the chemical metal though, i found out after testing that oktan 110 disolves these kinds of metals like acid.
My headache is over after Malossi released their C-ONE / RC ONE cartridges however, no need for chemical metal in those for flow optimisation.
Nice vid bet it took some time to edit all that - thanks for doing it. Started off with puch cases, ruined 2 got a little too happy on the burrs.
And oh yeah jb weld is your friend. Puch cases are thin and easy to trash, but i got one with a good 70 cc kit to work well. Hard to say if anything i did made anything better - wishful thinking is best used. A bit more than twice the power, maybe 10 hp ? a reed kit with a higher compression head made it run hot. Trade off fuel ratio to keep temps down, it ran well but a fuel pig that fouled plugs a lot - better than seizing the cylinder.
I had big plans for my piaggio scoot hyper 2 engine. Found some very interesting cylinders on UK scoot sites, 90 cc bolt right up kits.
But past dirt bike crashes caught up with me as i knew they would, need 2 disks fused lower back and c5 neck. Pain is hellish 24/7 so riding is not gonna happen this year, i'll be lucky if i heal by new years. Took my old ke 175 out last week all done in half an hour, just hurt too much.
But i can still get info and make plans - that will not pan out.
Anyway, good video thanks for putting it up. Have a good
Thanks. Hope you can get feeling well enough to ride and wrench more before too long.
@@49ccscoot Thank you. The hell has not started yet, 2 weeks i'll have some idea of what will happen. Think i'm looking at going on disability, might be a year long event.
Strange thing about pain after ten years
you do develop a tolerance to it. To a point
only, pass that and it's just like new again.
An ER doctor was telling me, you don't
realize how it effects you until it's gone.
Blood pressure, concentration, sleep habits
are all effected you do not think about it.
Happens by it self.
If you look up the word stubborn - you'll see a picture of me next to it. I really have waited far too long in dealing with my spinal injuries. Pain is a powerful motivator
had it not been for that, i would still be
just going along with it. stupidly
I am NOT going to write books here - it is what i do - sorry. I end here. Have a good
@@johnrobinson357 Crashing sucks. Getting old sucks. ...but bikes are awesome, so what can you do? Good luck.
great job !
Thanks for sharing
Nice upload 👍👍👍
Hi i watched you video on porting What I've done in the past is When you have gone to far strip the coating of 1mm wire and with a sharp knife cut it up 1mm 2mm Lengths Before you put JB on the case stick the wire sleeve in your casing with Super Glue then put JB over the case on the smoothing out you will see the tops that you glued in if you go to far then once finished you can touch each one you see with drill bit and refill over job done ✔ HOPE this helps you 👍 😊 then put heat and oil resistance Spray paint over the work to protect it 👍
Color the entire gasket surface, with the marker, then use a scribe-all or pick to make a fine, very accurate line to follow.
Just found your channel n I subscribed very cool thank you.
If I need to do fill work in cases I try to orient the case in a fashion that allows the filler to fill the low spot intended to built up if another coat is required I will just reorient the part if necessary and you get a smooth filled are with minimal filler to achieve the desired result.
привет !) ты крут !) видео получилось очень познавательным !) много чего подчеркнул из него !)
4:34 I think I have those same exact pockets! LoL
More physics!
Air does not like going around corners. Use large radius turns. Short turns seporate the ful droplets and they go straight.
Steps cause turbulance!!! ( fuel comes out of suspension)
Again! Think in terms of the air wanting to go straight!! Keeping fuel atomized!
Also remember, in an engine the air is pulsing in reverse too! Watch edges and steps.
( Knife edge) ramps must be gentle, to stop turbulance!
Don't polish any inlet surfaces!
A 60 grit cartridge roll finish is ideal.
It provides a boundry layer ( holds higher air velocity) and lessens the fuel that comes out of suspension!
Polish exhaust ports! Minimum 200 grit.
Apart from matching cacing joints and steps, radiusing, etc.
The more you remove, the slower the air will move.
~ " Flowing", while removing as little material as possible, will keep good midrange and improve top end power.
Going Big will lose low end but gain power at high rpm.
You spend about 60 ~ 80 % of the time at mid and upper mid rpm and throttle position.
Think about it!
Enjoy tinkering!
Oh WEAR EYE PROTECTION! GLOVES!
AND A MASK, ALUMINIUM IS TOXIC TO THE BODY. Google " silicosis"
Very very good
great, nice to know you, I'm a mechanic from Indonesia 👍👍🙏🖐
I've been at this for a lifetime and watched everything and read everything long after being an established top shelf Master Mechanic and I have to say that all your videos are great but this one is by far the best one out there. Everything you said is true whether the so-called ASE idiots agree or not. Polishing is a joke, see I went further because I love to punish the idiots, now steam is building up and must be released while you and I just relax, smile and enjoy life which if you have not noticed is not polished either.
So as the number one lover of JB Weld I want to share a little knowledge with you. If you will mix your batch 10% light in hardener and very warm and runny and then you dump it into the place it goes letting it run over and bond and then pool and then stick your part in the freezer. When you get it really cold the curing times change exponentially. So check on it often until it is like play-doh and then rub a little oil on a sandwich baggy and put it over your jbweld and mold it with your fingers to the exact shape you want it putting it back in the freezer if it starts to thaw. Once you have it as your want it then just keep it in the freezer for at least 6 hours and at that point it will have cured to the regular 5 minute mark in which is has a hard skin. Once the skin is developed the stuff won't move any more and you can pull it out and put it in the oven to accelerate the curing time, just treat it like bread or cheese toast at about 300 degrees or whateer you want as the more heat the shorter the cure time. If you try this I promise you will grow to love it and you will soon be able to do it and actually get it cured in a much shorter time than normal. The greatest part about doing it this way is once it becomes like play-doh it won't stick to your fingers anymore and you can actually use tools on it before it is cured and soft and using the oiled plastic will leave you with a perfect plastic smooth finish. You can even assemble your stuff together and let the parts push everything out of the way with the plastic in between and when it is at the perfect consistensy you can simply use a blade to cut it and just play with this method and I promise you will love the stuff even more. Once you become expert with the frozen method you can then add extra hardener and essentially make your own quick cure so that it has a skin in about 1 1/2 hours in the freezer while the stuff underneath is still moldable and moveable. The most important part is cleaning the surface and making sure the hot mixture is runny and gets sure contact without air to the surface. You will find that it becomes as hard as steel when you get the mixtures right and I hope you get something from this rant friend. I really appreciate your work and your patience and keep it up man. The kids need to hear the truth's you speak and if they doubt or have doubts they need only look at the finished product to know you know your stuff from experience not from books or videos and that should be enough. I repeat polishing ports does not benefit anything people.
Peace
Sizzlean
very true, polishing will make the fuel condensate back into droplets buggering up emulsification intern buggering the air fuel mix, not much chop for making power. good vid for a how to on a budget.
Uh...wrong!!!!! Always polish the exhaust port?
If you dont know why your a complete asshat?
Very bad advice, expansion and contraction will weaken the epoxy structure and epoxy is supposed to cure from the inside out cured under extreme heat such as 300 will cure from the outside in, making the outside very brittle in the inside very soft
Anybody noticed the volume difference in the transfer Port base try using a flow bench way more important than matching at that point would be air velocity as with that big of volume difference one size going to flow way more air than the other bad news
Awesome video ,thanks for info , keep up the great work everyone
☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
Good jobs
Awesome👍👍👍👍
Thanks for the incredibly well explained video - your voice is pleasant to listen to and everything you explain and show is easy to understand even for beginners (or at least I think it should be). Do you have a dyno or access to one, or do you check your work for efficacy with the "butt dyno" only? How much power would you say you gained from all this porting and flow optimization, or was it more in service of making the cases able to handle the much larger pumping capacity of the 103cc bigbore/stroker kit?
Thank you! I wish I had a dyno, but I just do my testing on road. I do take numbers like measured acceleration times and top speeds and such, but I haven't built identical engines with and without the porting to know what comes from it and what comes from other things. It is just a part of the process of a build at this point.
@@49ccscoot I know this is an old post, and I don't know if you have a Dyno now, if not check out simpledyno, I'm pretty sure you can make one of those, and it's free software, it's just the hardware you have to make, you have to spend money on.
One way to minimize the risk of cracking the case is to saturate the epoxy with fiberglass strands. It's dirt cheap, and will massively increase the strength of the filler. It shouldn't be any harder to shape with burrs or sanding either.
@@labrikorn_3299 WHAT? My God, I should be dead by now from all the fiberglass I've sanded in the past 25 years. Jeez the kids these days are afraid of everything 🤣
@@ahole5407 Yes avoiding lung cancer is dumb...
The inner corner is where you’ll see most gains , boundary layer thickness is very higher there. Want the curve to be as gradual as possible
Do a piston mod and sleeve porting video too please.
Love the port filling.
good video
Very interesting..!
Digging the graphics in this video.
Note to self: I need to remove the chair from my hallway.
Trenching is usually used to make room for a longing stroked crank without knowing exactly what you are trying to achieve you can open ports and cases so large that you begin to lose velocity and fuel Atomization also the crank gets its lubrication from the fuel/oil mixture so trying to redirect the flow of the mixture strait to the exchange ports via the intake is not always going to be beneficial if u lock up the crank bearing or bearings knocking down edges does increase flow but most importantly it reduces cracking.jb weld does not hold up to gas or oil well or vibration! Aluminum should be tigged
I would like to try on my kids CR 80 go kart engine,I appreciate your sharing your knowledge. Anyone have any advice on the CR 80 engine?
ciao............sempre lavori molto belli
Two stroke Tuner,s Handbook and ask lots of Questions from people that have already been there .
❤ Happy to subscribe.
Lut ! Hi ! Nice job :)
Nice.... Thanks
When using jb weld to get it into spaces that are tight if you mix it on card and fold it into a v you can heat underneath with a lighter and it will pour. To flatten it out and steer it wet you finger with gob grease and you will be able to push it about without It sticking to your finger
Thanks for sharing all you have done and know. Have you or have you come across any data that would isolate the effect/gains of this wkrk by itself? Obviously the effect of enlarging the case area as part of the porting and trenching is hard to remove. Thx!
I have not. The career tuners and racers don't share much info that I'm aware of and they're the ones likely to have data for that sort of stuff.
just now trying to port a 700cc 2 stroke from your video :D
Wow. What is it?
@@49ccscoot zabel zm29
Great video. Was just wondering if that black stuff works as good or better than blie locktight
It's permanent. Not meant for threads, but if you wanted something to never come out it may be an option.
EDIT : Wait. The Permatex stuff that I put on threads? I was thinking of the JB Weld at first. The sealer just seals. It's not even a fully curing style so it's not holding threads.
i wanna know what kind of dremel bit was used in the beginning, and how fast you were running it. it it cut perfectly
NEVERMIND
Cold welding can be use for the exhaust port ? I have a hole on one of my cylinder, meeting the studs hole...
Possibly, as long as it's in the port and not in the bore. There's a risk of warping the cylinder too.
This could be great if you had made an engine without modifications with your TP 86cc mounted and measured on dyno field and measured HP. and after that made an engine with the changes you make in videos here mounted TP 86cc and looked at dyno field and measured HP so we could see with our own eyes what it would actually give of effect when we adapt our cylinder to the Engine Block
These are some great videos you make.
Very good video thanks wanna know more
Are you available to do case machining? I am planning to do what I think is the same build and will need this work done.
Use a scribe as permanent marker rubs off when near oil . NEVER dig through cases unless you can wield it and NEVER use appoxy ,it's crap .people often forget it's in direct contact with petroleum vapourised fuel and heat .before anyone says go read up from pro's of tuning ,non use epoxy ,they weld cases ,the reason there isn't a definite book to tuning is cause all motors are different, that's why they called guides . There are port maps however and that's a top tuner producing a guide and a cutting guide to know exactly where to open up ports to
Here is just a thought, to gain back volume lost, is it possible to use cork and epoxy to hold, on the underside of the piston ? An old snowmobile engine trick.! Does not add much weight to the piston but maintains base pressure to force mixture into the transfers?
JB WELD Rocks !!!!
man thank you for the video, best video on porting 2 stroke on youtube,
had the cases splited about month ago and now i feel sorry because i havent cut into them, i guess you gave me confidence to cut into cases from now on
what about cylinder porting?
I don't have a vid up about porting with any real detail, but you may want to look at this :
49ccscoot.proboards.com/post/30229/thread
Thanks for the video. I think I would try an HDPE screw for through holes. It's tough getting anything to stick to that except more hdpe.
DFA Beagle I mean. Really. A regular bolt with some pam spray or even wax on it will come out just fine. I’ve done it plenty of times.
Shoe polish works for gunsmiths
Mantap kaleee
Good video but with a lot of material removable at the base of the cylinder I wonder what kind of reliability the engine will exhibit especially with the continued enhanced vibration.
I can't say I've had many issues... aside from my recent 103cc LC engine (these actual cases). That thing refuses to seal on the top side (cyl to head) long term. Could be a combination of many things, including this. Other engines have been fine. My 86cc is done in a similar fashion, only just slightly less aggressive, and it has not leaked at all so far. That's a better designed kit though and I tend to think it stems more from design of the cyl and head, but the more anything can flex, I'm sure it can become problematic. This is somewhat the conundrum in many applications regarding performance. How much is too much and what sacrifices or compromises are actually worth it? In this case, it prob is the smarter bet to be less aggressive. I definitely wouldn't do this if my #1 goal was a daily rider.
Have you tried not filing the crankcase port with JB Weld and going for volume not flow?
I have built engines with just port matching. The problem is that everything I've done for years has been significantly larger and/or higher revving than stock and I have ported them. I don't have anything to compare side by side.
nice
Very nice 👍🏻
I do not have a scooter or a moped and have no interest in them...... but I do love your videos!
Thank you!
Trenching can only help if the motor is at such a tune that a combination of the transfer momentum and the exhaust draw can draw intake air through the intake when the piston is at bdc
Did the JB weld hold up? with heat, gas, vibrations etc?
Yup. Current engine has the same treatment and it's been in the scoot for 2+ years. Even blew a crank bearing and took out a crank and variator ramp plate and it's still fine.
Reed valves don't like a lot of crank case volume. I know you can gain movement with the pipe effects, but with tight crank case volume with reed valves, the reeds tend to stay open longer as the larger volume of (elastic air) takes more time to develop a negative pressure to open the reeds. Wiith tighter crank case volume and reeds, the pipe should open the reeds earlier and keep them open longer.