I've found this method to be one of the most effective ways of not only making it clearer but also increasing bass energy. This channel is the first channel to mention this. Only recently do we see other channels mention this but I get a feeling they got that info from this channel..
@Subwoofer 101 Dream Media brought it up in one of their videos. I can't remember which, though, too many, lol. It's been a while, but I think Technodad touched on it, too..
Just got my copy of The Eagles Farewell 1Tour Blu-ray as you suggested and you are spot on as I found the audio mix in DTS Master HD to be awesome. Using it to test my system was a pure delight and it will remain in my Blu-ray collection. The disc audio does need to be switched from its default audio to DTS Master HD as you explained and I did switch the audio on my processor to DTS-HD + Neutral:X and I never left my seat until the tour finished. Thanks for adding this tip to your video.
I'm glad you enjoy it as much as I do! The beginning of "You belong to the city", where the sax comes in around you, and then you can hear the snare drum vibrate when the Timothy gets the bass going; it's all very immersive. "Wasted time" is my favorite. Beautiful song, not too busy, and very precise. I always say that they play surgically. "Help me through the night" on the "Hell Freezes Over" DVD is awesome too, but you can really tell the difference in audio format. Uncompressed, lossless audio is noticeably more dynamic. Thank you for your comment!
Great video, have measured an improvement with my dual SB16’s by adding distance. SVS reports a 6ft adder to physical distance, pretty close to your 4ft recommendation. The AVR does add shout 3ft of delay but it’s only half what it should be. You’re right to add some. Regarding your center channel dilemma, while I was waiting for my 800-series B&W reference setup to deliver, I temporarily used the 805d4’s as mains, and my A90J OLED as the center channel. It has speaker level inputs to act as a center. I kinda liked it, even though it’s not as good as having a discrete speaker. Give that some thought for a clean setup above the fireplace. Dialog coming right from the screen helps overcome some of the shortcomings of a “TV” speaker. It didn’t sound “bad” in my opinion…
Definitely a novel idea! Hadn't considered using the TV speaker. SVS subs typically have a delay that equates to an added 2 feet over physical distance, so 6 feet seems to be spot on.
Wow, I tried this over the weekend. I have dual pb1000 pros, my first row of seating had barely any bass, my second row sounded ok though. I added 4ft to my distance and I have bass in every seat! Great video thanks! 🤙
Welcome back, you’re one of faves. So I have a dedicated home theater but in my bedroom I only have a Vizio sound bar set up, with no delay or distance. Can I physically move the subwoofer four feet away?
Just found your channel, a lot of good information. I need to try the hack of adding 4’ to my subs to see what type of difference that makes. Usually after I run room correction and set my crossover, I have to add a few mls of delay (MiniDSP) to my subs to have a nice sub/mains integration; from a measurement when running full range sweeps. I’ve never added delay to all of my other speakers by increasing sub distance in my AVR.
It's a pretty good hack. I forgot it in the motorhome theater, and couldn't figure out what was missing. Then I remembered, and I had my sound back. The timing shift makes a difference either way, but in my opinion, advancing the subs sounds just a little bit better than delaying. Thanks for watching, and the feedback!
This was a nice video. I'm glad that your still making content these days. I have learned a lot watching your channel over the years. I hope your doing good and I wish you good health and joy. Continue to stay positive brother 👍
Of course its not a clean visual but its works.same alumminium should put between the TV support and the wall to prevent heat dissipates from wall to TV.
Audyssey set my (4) subwoofers equally at 28.1ft each. Unfortunately I can't try your distance hack because if I add any more distance to the subs Audyssey will give an error message because they do not allow a greater distance than 20ft between the shortest and longest speaker distance and my shortest speaker is 8.1ft. I did use your crossover & level hack with great results so I have to be grateful for that.
Probably wireless? Something you can try for me, and it would help others if it works: Set your subwoofers to 180 phase. Then run room correction again. Just go through one sample cycle instead of the whole thing, get to the end, and see what the distance is at. If it adds 4 feet over your previous value, then go back and do it again with all the samples instead of just one, and then save. Then once you are done, set the phase back to zero. I have no idea if it will work, it's just a hunch. If it doesn't change the distance by the desired amount, just back out without saving, and nothing will change. I'm VERY curious if it will work.
@@Subwoofer101 You are correct wireless is in play. Subs 1 & 2 are wired using sub outputs to LFE inputs on GoldenEar One.R fronts. Subs 3 & 4 are wireless to SVS SB16's at rear sides. My room is 16.6 x 23.6. I reset phase from 0 to 180 on the SVS Subs and ran Audyssey. I had to run (3) positions before I could get results to compute. With 180 phase all (4) subs measured 28.3 and shortest speaker distance was 8.6 so there was only a .2 gain in subs distance. Since I had the mic out anyway I reran a full 8 position calibration after resetting phase back to 0 and all (4) subs measured 28.1 with the shortest distance being 8.5 which was within the 20ft maximum spread as allowed by Audyssey.
Dang it. That answers that. Can you list all of your speakers distance values? I have another idea, but it depends on what everything works out to. The max your Audyssey allows is 20 feet, correct?
I was able to get my distance to 27.5 before error. Here's what I'm thinking: Assuming your subs are at 28.2, reduce every speaker by 4.7 feet, and keep the subs at 27.5 feet. So your speaker that is 8.6 would be 3.9 feet. Rather than advancing the subs by adding 4 feet, you are adding 4 feet of delay to the rest of your speakers by reducing their distance, hopefully accomplishing the same effect. (Shortest distance gets the most delay.) If it works, you will know. Let me know.
@@Subwoofer101 Yes Audyssey requires no more than a 20ft difference between shortest speaker distance and longest speaker distance. Here are Audyssey distances... Front L 13.5 ft Front R 13.6 ft Center 12.3 ft Surround L 10.1 ft Surround R 8.5ft Top Front L 15.2ft Top Front R 14.9ft Top Rear L 11.0ft Top Rear R 10.0ft Subwoofer 1 28.1ft Subwoofer 2 28.1ft Subwoofer 3 28.1ft Subwoofer 4 28.1ft
I wish you would have came out with this four months ago it would have save me 1500 for me to get my home theater system calibrated. Listening to what you said and knowing the problem I was having before the calibration. The company that calibrated my system for 6 hrs. did what your video hack just said. You are on point and save someone else a lot of money and time. Glad you are back.
Great to hear you back - again! 😀 One must also figure-in the effiency of each various speaker when doing level adjust. Personally I have mostly Klipsch speakers, some dating back 45 years, plus some newer ones for side surround, which are way less efficient. - Cheers!
Personally, I have a problem with stated efficiency. It's only at one frequency. I typically ignore it, and let my ears figure out where the levels should be. It can definitely be harder when the speakers are not the same, as you can be balanced in one frequency range, but off in another. Definitely something to consider. I once had an obnoxious center channel, and had to turn it WAY down so it wasn't glaring.
Great question. Yes. The DSP probably added additional distance, assuming you ran room correction with the DSP in the loop, but before applying changes to the DSP. It adds delay, which makes the AVR see the subwoofers as being even further away. For example, say your subwoofers are 10 feet away. Onboard subwoofer DSP makes it look like 12 ft away, inline Mini DSP makes it look like 15 ft away, according to the AVR. Actual distance figures will vary of course, but in this scenario, you would change the distance from 15 to 19 feet.
@@Subwoofer101 gotcha. Thank you for the guidance on this! I’ve been using two subs until recently (true distance for each 12ft and avr+minidsp set them at 22) and am now in the process of adding two more. I’m just waiting for a day with enough time to dedicate a good 5hrs to all this. I’ve been subbed to your channel for years and I just wanna say your work and advice are priceless to the home theater community. Keep up the great work!
Thank you, that means a lot to me! I would also suggest that you EQ the subs all at once, rather than independently. I'm sure you know that already, but it can be quite a mess if you try to EQ them separately.
@@Subwoofer101 It's funny that I'm just now reading this. Recalibrating everything took me like 5hrs today. Thankfully, I applied the EQ to all subs only because I thought that was a must 😅 As much of an enthusiast as I am, I still consider myself a newbie.
Thanks for the video and welcome back :) Is there any negative sides to lowering the levels of the speakers? Because i don't have the ideal room, and i'm setting "fairly" close to the front stage - and that means I can't crank the volume up because that will blow my ears out - but that also mean my subwoofer doesn't get that loud. So could one lower the levels of the speakers, so one could turn up the master volume and get more subwoofer punch?
Definitely a good idea to watch my "dialing in subs by ear" hack. Sounds like your subs could use more gain, and as long as everything sounds balanced, there is no real negative.
I actually just discovered the beauty of perfectly timed speakers today using my spatial audio calibration disk. It was eye opening how big of a difference it makes. Denon/marantez not using the PC app get the distance wrong. Multiplying the audyssey distance by 0.875 gets you closer to where it should be. Btw I’m dealing with a TBI as well, take all the time you need. I had to put CZcams on hold myself.
Interesting, I'll look into that! Sorry to hear about your TBI, truly. It's miserable. A few things that I have found to help, beyond just rest: Neuro optometry: rare discipline, but it made a drastic difference. They need to specialize in TBI specifically. Otherwise they won't be able to do everything you need. My eyesight is fine, it's my vision that's messed up. The brain has to work EXTRA hard to make sense in the slightly skewed alignment. I had no idea my vision was off. Brain corrected it enough to not notice. Stammets 7 mushroom supplement. Lions Mane is impressive. Cooling your head (mine gets hot) Laser therapy. Hand held, at home. Not cheap, but impressive healing of all sorts. Best wishes, I'm very sorry you know the struggle.
I have 5.1.4 setup with SVS Prime Elevations as front and rear heights. My MLP is only 3.5 feet from the back wall. What levels adjustments would you suggest for the Heights so that the rears don't sound more apparent. Thanks.
Basically follow the Level Hack video. Any number I were to give you would be arbitrary. Basically turn it down until you don't hear it being overbearing.
I have a subwoofer upfront 5 metres away from listening position and the behind me like a foot away. Would I still add 4 feet to both subs or just the one upfront?
Good question! Assuming your subs are timed correctly, adding 4 feet to all subwoofers should result in the right timing. Experiment and trust your ears.
It could be adding distance if your subwoofers have DSP. Digital Signal Processing delays the signal a little, making the subwoofer appear to room correction as further away than they are. 1 to 6 feet in some cases. Any truly good subwoofer will have a DSP. You won't find one on my list without it. Still worth adding 4 feet to the room correction value. Trust your ears.
Usually people's eyes hurt when the text is too small! 😅 I try to create a lot of contrast for mobile viewers. I'm terribly sorry if it hurt your eyes, sincerely. Just trying to find the right balance. I appreciate your feedback, for sure.
Welcome back, Another great video!
Thank you!!!
I've found this method to be one of the most effective ways of not only making it clearer but also increasing bass energy. This channel is the first channel to mention this. Only recently do we see other channels mention this but I get a feeling they got that info from this channel..
Interesting, who else has mentioned it?
@Subwoofer 101 Dream Media brought it up in one of their videos. I can't remember which, though, too many, lol. It's been a while, but I think Technodad touched on it, too..
Thank you for your help and guidance you i know have helped out so many (including my self) with your dedication. My home theater sounds awesome
Feedback like this is why I do it! Thank you for watching!
Just got my copy of The Eagles Farewell 1Tour Blu-ray as you suggested and you are spot on as I found the audio mix in DTS Master HD to be awesome. Using it to test my system was a pure delight and it will remain in my Blu-ray collection. The disc audio does need to be switched from its default audio to DTS Master HD as you explained and I did switch the audio on my processor to DTS-HD + Neutral:X and I never left my seat until the tour finished. Thanks for adding this tip to your video.
I'm glad you enjoy it as much as I do!
The beginning of "You belong to the city", where the sax comes in around you, and then you can hear the snare drum vibrate when the Timothy gets the bass going; it's all very immersive.
"Wasted time" is my favorite. Beautiful song, not too busy, and very precise. I always say that they play surgically.
"Help me through the night" on the "Hell Freezes Over" DVD is awesome too, but you can really tell the difference in audio format.
Uncompressed, lossless audio is noticeably more dynamic.
Thank you for your comment!
Great video, have measured an improvement with my dual SB16’s by adding distance. SVS reports a 6ft adder to physical distance, pretty close to your 4ft recommendation. The AVR does add shout 3ft of delay but it’s only half what it should be. You’re right to add some. Regarding your center channel dilemma, while I was waiting for my 800-series B&W reference setup to deliver, I temporarily used the 805d4’s as mains, and my A90J OLED as the center channel. It has speaker level inputs to act as a center. I kinda liked it, even though it’s not as good as having a discrete speaker. Give that some thought for a clean setup above the fireplace. Dialog coming right from the screen helps overcome some of the shortcomings of a “TV” speaker. It didn’t sound “bad” in my opinion…
Definitely a novel idea! Hadn't considered using the TV speaker.
SVS subs typically have a delay that equates to an added 2 feet over physical distance, so 6 feet seems to be spot on.
Wow, I tried this over the weekend. I have dual pb1000 pros, my first row of seating had barely any bass, my second row sounded ok though. I added 4ft to my distance and I have bass in every seat! Great video thanks! 🤙
Thanks! Check out my adjusting subwoofers by ear, crossover hack, and gain hack.
Will do!
Welcome back, you’re one of faves. So I have a dedicated home theater but in my bedroom I only have a Vizio sound bar set up, with no delay or distance. Can I physically move the subwoofer four feet away?
Kind of stuck there, but you would want it 4 feet closer.
Just found your channel, a lot of good information. I need to try the hack of adding 4’ to my subs to see what type of difference that makes. Usually after I run room correction and set my crossover, I have to add a few mls of delay (MiniDSP) to my subs to have a nice sub/mains integration; from a measurement when running full range sweeps. I’ve never added delay to all of my other speakers by increasing sub distance in my AVR.
It's a pretty good hack. I forgot it in the motorhome theater, and couldn't figure out what was missing. Then I remembered, and I had my sound back.
The timing shift makes a difference either way, but in my opinion, advancing the subs sounds just a little bit better than delaying.
Thanks for watching, and the feedback!
This was a nice video. I'm glad that your still making content these days. I have learned a lot watching your channel over the years. I hope your doing good and I wish you good health and joy. Continue to stay positive brother 👍
Thank you so much! It's nice to make a regular video!
Great discussion !!
Thank you!
Thank you good stuff here
Thank you!
Never even heard of Avr but I understand it’s almost like a dsp in a car audio amp but it’s for a home theater setup
AVR is an Audio Video Receiver. I should have explained that.
Center speaker can vê installed. Just add a Shelf and use special alumminium stand for the speaker to avoid heat going to the speaker
Of course its not a clean visual but its works.same alumminium should put between the TV support and the wall to prevent heat dissipates from wall to TV.
Turns out a smaller center channel will fit right below the TV. Just need to raise it an inch or so.
Audyssey set my (4) subwoofers equally at 28.1ft each. Unfortunately I can't try your distance hack because if I add any more distance to the subs Audyssey will give an error message because they do not allow a greater distance than 20ft between the shortest and longest speaker distance and my shortest speaker is 8.1ft. I did use your crossover & level hack with great results so I have to be grateful for that.
Probably wireless?
Something you can try for me, and it would help others if it works:
Set your subwoofers to 180 phase.
Then run room correction again. Just go through one sample cycle instead of the whole thing, get to the end, and see what the distance is at.
If it adds 4 feet over your previous value, then go back and do it again with all the samples instead of just one, and then save.
Then once you are done, set the phase back to zero.
I have no idea if it will work, it's just a hunch.
If it doesn't change the distance by the desired amount, just back out without saving, and nothing will change.
I'm VERY curious if it will work.
@@Subwoofer101 You are correct wireless is in play. Subs 1 & 2 are wired using sub outputs to LFE inputs on GoldenEar One.R fronts. Subs 3 & 4 are wireless to SVS SB16's at rear sides. My room is 16.6 x 23.6. I reset phase from 0 to 180 on the SVS Subs and ran Audyssey. I had to run (3) positions before I could get results to compute. With 180 phase all (4) subs measured 28.3 and shortest speaker distance was 8.6 so there was only a .2 gain in subs distance. Since I had the mic out anyway I reran a full 8 position calibration after resetting phase back to 0 and all (4) subs measured 28.1 with the shortest distance being 8.5 which was within the 20ft maximum spread as allowed by Audyssey.
Dang it. That answers that.
Can you list all of your speakers distance values? I have another idea, but it depends on what everything works out to.
The max your Audyssey allows is 20 feet, correct?
I was able to get my distance to 27.5 before error.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Assuming your subs are at 28.2, reduce every speaker by 4.7 feet, and keep the subs at 27.5 feet.
So your speaker that is 8.6 would be 3.9 feet.
Rather than advancing the subs by adding 4 feet, you are adding 4 feet of delay to the rest of your speakers by reducing their distance, hopefully accomplishing the same effect. (Shortest distance gets the most delay.)
If it works, you will know. Let me know.
@@Subwoofer101 Yes Audyssey requires no more than a 20ft difference between shortest speaker distance and longest speaker distance.
Here are Audyssey distances...
Front L 13.5 ft
Front R 13.6 ft
Center 12.3 ft
Surround L 10.1 ft
Surround R 8.5ft
Top Front L 15.2ft
Top Front R 14.9ft
Top Rear L 11.0ft
Top Rear R 10.0ft
Subwoofer 1 28.1ft
Subwoofer 2 28.1ft
Subwoofer 3 28.1ft
Subwoofer 4 28.1ft
Mine sub distance is at 14ft after Audyssey, should i increase it upto 18ft or reduce it upto 10ft ?
18
I wish you would have came out with this four months ago it would have save me 1500 for me to get my home theater system calibrated. Listening to what you said and knowing the problem I was having before the calibration. The company that calibrated my system for 6 hrs. did what your video hack just said. You are on point and save someone else a lot of money and time. Glad you are back.
Wow, quite an enlightening comment! Sorry for the expensive delay!
Just subscribed!
Thank you!
glad to see you are back. informative video. looking forward to more videos.
Thank you, I look forward to uploading more!
Hello! friend. Glad you're back... I really like your videos. hugs..
Thank you so much, it's good to be back!
How do you know how much to increase your speakers🔊❓
To the point where they don't draw attention to themselves, and aren't drowned out either. It's different for every setup.
Welcome black! Hail from portugal
Thank you!
Oh thank goodness. It’s been a while since you uploaded, it’s good to hear you are well. 😊
I've been needing to pace myself, and I've been building content in the meantime. Thank you so much!!
Great to hear you back - again! 😀
One must also figure-in the effiency of each various speaker when doing level adjust.
Personally I have mostly Klipsch speakers, some dating back 45 years, plus some newer ones for side surround, which are way less efficient. - Cheers!
Personally, I have a problem with stated efficiency. It's only at one frequency.
I typically ignore it, and let my ears figure out where the levels should be.
It can definitely be harder when the speakers are not the same, as you can be balanced in one frequency range, but off in another.
Definitely something to consider. I once had an obnoxious center channel, and had to turn it WAY down so it wasn't glaring.
@@Subwoofer101 Great points! - Thanks!
Is this hack still recommended if using a mini dsp and already applied a house curve?
Great question. Yes.
The DSP probably added additional distance, assuming you ran room correction with the DSP in the loop, but before applying changes to the DSP. It adds delay, which makes the AVR see the subwoofers as being even further away.
For example, say your subwoofers are 10 feet away. Onboard subwoofer DSP makes it look like 12 ft away, inline Mini DSP makes it look like 15 ft away, according to the AVR.
Actual distance figures will vary of course, but in this scenario, you would change the distance from 15 to 19 feet.
@@Subwoofer101 gotcha. Thank you for the guidance on this! I’ve been using two subs until recently (true distance for each 12ft and avr+minidsp set them at 22) and am now in the process of adding two more. I’m just waiting for a day with enough time to dedicate a good 5hrs to all this.
I’ve been subbed to your channel for years and I just wanna say your work and advice are priceless to the home theater community. Keep up the great work!
Thank you, that means a lot to me!
I would also suggest that you EQ the subs all at once, rather than independently.
I'm sure you know that already, but it can be quite a mess if you try to EQ them separately.
@@Subwoofer101 It's funny that I'm just now reading this. Recalibrating everything took me like 5hrs today. Thankfully, I applied the EQ to all subs only because I thought that was a must 😅 As much of an enthusiast as I am, I still consider myself a newbie.
Just buy an Anthem AVR and run ARC Genesis, problem solved?
Not impossible, but I would be surprised if it did what my Hacks do. Who knows...
nice video,glad your back
i will go dive in it tomorrow
keep up the good works
Thank you!!
Speaker positioning/aiming is likely what you need to change if level hacking doesnt work.
Nice to see a post!
Thank you!!
Thanks for the video and welcome back :)
Is there any negative sides to lowering the levels of the speakers? Because i don't have the ideal room, and i'm setting "fairly" close to the front stage - and that means I can't crank the volume up because that will blow my ears out - but that also mean my subwoofer doesn't get that loud. So could one lower the levels of the speakers, so one could turn up the master volume and get more subwoofer punch?
Definitely a good idea to watch my "dialing in subs by ear" hack.
Sounds like your subs could use more gain, and as long as everything sounds balanced, there is no real negative.
@@Subwoofer101 Alright thanks for your answer - I’ll go give that a watch and play around with the settings :)
Glad you're back
Nice to be back!
Nice to have you back I miss your videos❤
Thank you!!
Glad to see your back.
Thank you!
I actually just discovered the beauty of perfectly timed speakers today using my spatial audio calibration disk. It was eye opening how big of a difference it makes. Denon/marantez not using the PC app get the distance wrong. Multiplying the audyssey distance by 0.875 gets you closer to where it should be.
Btw I’m dealing with a TBI as well, take all the time you need. I had to put CZcams on hold myself.
Interesting, I'll look into that!
Sorry to hear about your TBI, truly. It's miserable.
A few things that I have found to help, beyond just rest:
Neuro optometry: rare discipline, but it made a drastic difference. They need to specialize in TBI specifically. Otherwise they won't be able to do everything you need.
My eyesight is fine, it's my vision that's messed up. The brain has to work EXTRA hard to make sense in the slightly skewed alignment. I had no idea my vision was off. Brain corrected it enough to not notice.
Stammets 7 mushroom supplement. Lions Mane is impressive.
Cooling your head (mine gets hot)
Laser therapy. Hand held, at home. Not cheap, but impressive healing of all sorts.
Best wishes, I'm very sorry you know the struggle.
Welcome back!
Thank you!!
I have 5.1.4 setup with SVS Prime Elevations as front and rear heights. My MLP is only 3.5 feet from the back wall. What levels adjustments would you suggest for the Heights so that the rears don't sound more apparent. Thanks.
Basically follow the Level Hack video. Any number I were to give you would be arbitrary. Basically turn it down until you don't hear it being overbearing.
So increasing sub distance by 4ft will work for all setups.
In the vast majority of cases, but always trust your ears.
in my tests using Rew I noticed the following : audyssey OFF the best distance is the exact measurement , audyssey ON needs to add a few more meters
A few meters is quite a bit. I think turning Audyssey off might turn off the room correction values, but I'm not sure.
I'll look into it!
How did you do that in rew
I have a subwoofer upfront 5 metres away from listening position and the behind me like a foot away. Would I still add 4 feet to both subs or just the one upfront?
Good question! Assuming your subs are timed correctly, adding 4 feet to all subwoofers should result in the right timing. Experiment and trust your ears.
Miss your videos man
Thank you, it's good to be back!
It seems like my Yamaha receiver room correction is adding that extra distance to my subs as a result of YPAO process.
What model do you have?
@@Jacob-nt1qd Avantage 2080
It could be adding distance if your subwoofers have DSP.
Digital Signal Processing delays the signal a little, making the subwoofer appear to room correction as further away than they are. 1 to 6 feet in some cases.
Any truly good subwoofer will have a DSP. You won't find one on my list without it.
Still worth adding 4 feet to the room correction value. Trust your ears.
Nice video. But am I the only one who's eyes hurt reading those HUGE texts?
Usually people's eyes hurt when the text is too small! 😅
I try to create a lot of contrast for mobile viewers. I'm terribly sorry if it hurt your eyes, sincerely.
Just trying to find the right balance.
I appreciate your feedback, for sure.
@@Subwoofer101 looks great on my phone. No need to squint
That's where I edit, on my phone.
Just thinking about you and your channel and boom there you are 👍. I hope all is well glad to hear from you
I'm like that, showing up in the subconscious prior to apparency.
I'm kidding.
Mostly...
Thank you!