Tarot Tantrum: Cardstock Matters!
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Join me for a full-on rant about my cardstock frustrations and why I think it matters.
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What KILLS completely is when more quality standards are placed on making a glossy, full color hardback guidebook and multiple packaging for *one* deck, yet the card stock on the actual deck is not working material.
That's a very good point. Maybe we need a rant on ridiculous deck packaging! :)
@@DawnMichelleTarot Yes, please. That would be an excellent video. 🌻✨
@@DawnMichelleTarot Ok, I've just stop by for this problem, some of us has small hands... I thought to bj a plasti machine, so that when I use cards, Im not worry. Cheap selution?!
Sometimes I'm just flabbergasted looking at reviews of people complaining about perfectly good bluecore cardstock (like the Lo Scarabeo tuck box decks) being "thin" and "cheap" and "fragile" and going on and on about how they fear the cards will rip and chip. And I just hear Mixtress Rae in my head asking "what are you expecting your deck to survive? How sturdy does it have to be?" And I wonder if any of those people know how to riffle bridge or have spent a lot of time handling playing cards , because I feel like if they did, they wouldn't be saying that. And I think it's reviews like this that are a big part of why the quality of stock is declining for those of us that avidly shuffle.
I feel my eyes straining to roll back into my body when they say this about blackcore. Blackcore is essentially premium casino stock (Terra Volatile and Pagan Otherworlds are both blackcore). If you take a flashlight and hold it up to the card, you will barely see the light shine through or not at all depending on how powerful the light is. Because the idea behind this stock is to negate cheating of trying to see what's on the other side, it's very dense but flexible because a deck needs to be shuffled thoroughly and stand up to the wear of that whether by human hands or a machine. Blackcore is the most premium and durable stock you can find if you are using the deck as a tool, especially if it has linen finish. I have blackcore decks that I have straight up abused for years and they still look barely used and flex back flat.
Bluecore is similar but less dense and quite a bit cheaper than blackcore. It's the stock most major publishers used with various weights until the recent trend of thick whitecore (Lo Scarabeo/Llewellyn new decks in kits or the stand up hard boxes are a mild example, the deck that inspired this video is a more extreme specimen) which is even cheaper, stiff and becomes more and more cardboard-like the heavier the weight (because whitecore is less dense so compensates with thickness to achieve the same weight as blue or black). Whitecore is the stuff that gets torn up easily. It's wood pulp and not reinforced with fibers like blue and black (If you paint with watercolor, this is like the difference between the 140lb Canson pad at your local craft store versus 100% cotton rag like Arches). Whitecore is often sold as the "Premium 400gsm cardstock" and it may be if the deck is meant to be displayed like with alter cards or used occassionally. The main pro for this stock is display,. But it's a pain to shuffle like an actual deck of cards and more prone to chipping and rips because of the thickness of the edge but lower density. It does lend well to gilding because again, there's surface area for that gilding to stick to, but it's also more likely to chip off especially if it's cheap.
I used to look for "linen" in the description of a deck as a synonym for blackcore, because most sellers don't specifiy the core type and just give the weight and finish if it's mentioned at all. Recently, I have discovered that some publishers are selling "linen" decks that are a cheap whitecore with a linen texture embossed into the finish. I am horrified. I hate it. I'm a paper snob. Please just tell me what materials are actually being used so I can stop being so disappointed when I actually get the thing in my hands.
This was so interesting! Thank you for taking the time to write all this!
Such a great comment! Thank you!
Such a helpful comment. I knew I preferred certain cardstock but now I understand WHY. Thank you! ❤️
OMG, yes! I am utterly baffled when I see people complaining about top of the line blackcore cardstock. I can only imagine that they've somehow internalized the idea that if each card isn't as thick as a beer mat, it isn't "quality."
So now we have a plague of decks comprised of 78 glorified coasters. They've no flexibility, they chip when you so much as look at them, and they feel as if they'd crease right in half if you dared try to shuffle them. It's a nice material for an altar card or for something you intend to frame and hang on your wall -- it does often show off the art beautifully -- but it doesn't make for a usable deck of cards.
Very interesting.
What are you expecting your deck to have to survive? 😆 indeed.
Yes. Smaller hands here too, and I often even prefer “pocket” decks, which usually just seem like normal appropriately sized cards to me. The shuffle is SO important, and definitely helps bonding with the deck and centering into the reading. I often even shuffle my cards just because it’s soothing and centering to do so, even when I’m not reading. There’s only one deck I haven’t minded being so huge and it’s because it has incredibly detailed beautiful artwork that would be lost on a smaller card (my Spirit of the Animals Oracle, which I actually got after seeing it on your channel). Besides size, I’ve been really fed up with decks that have these great boxes and massive beautiful guidebooks but then the cards are on super poor quality cardstock, and I hesitate to use the deck because as soon as I start shuffling I’m going to have scratches on the cards and warping and I don’t want to immediately ruin them. The priorities are totally backwards, like publishers maybe don’t understand that many of us plan to actually use these decks and they’re not just collector items.
100%!
I loved this rant. Tools should be usable. If it was a hand tool or power tool that would be fully understood. No one worries about how aesthetic an axe is - does it work? The functionality is primary. And yes we want the aesthetics too 🤣❤️
There's several decks that have hit the sweet spot in my opinion... I do understand that not all cardstock is available all the time and the bigger houses print in runs, but just a bit more consideration to the useability of the deck would be nice, right? :) They can be pretty and functional!
@@DawnMichelleTarot exactly!
Like you said the Llewelyn decks are usually pretty reliable.
It’s just so disappointing when you love the artwork but the deck is unusable 😭
Im a very tactile person. I shuffle decks for therapy and because it calms me down. Sometimes I just like to look at the artwork. This has been the most surprising thing to me is the incredible talent dec creators have. Card stock is one of the first things I consider. It has to feel good in my hands and easy for me to manage. The Gentle Tarot in the linen card stock is one of my favorites. The deck is a little smaller than regular tarot size.
Same here, the new Gentle Tarot linen deck is one of my favorites... not just for the concept and art, but for the delicious cardstock and great size! :)
I feel this so much, it doesn't matter if it's shallow. Not being able to handle decks makes them a waste of time and money! What's the point if we can't handle them comfortably. I'm more forgiving about thick cardstock than I am about gloss to be honest because glossy cards are hard to look at and give me a headache while thick cardstock can't be riffle shuffled at worst, which I can't even do with pocker sized cards because my hands are so small and bridging was meant to be for playing cards not tarot anyways. Like, I can find other ways to shuffle a deck but I can't find other ways to look at it! I just want plain simple matte cards with matte guilding that won't hurt my hands 😔
i haven’t even watched this yet and want to thumbs up this video a thousand times!!
Lol same
I personally love Llewellyn and Lo Scarabeo cardstock. I have 2 decks that I love, that the cardstock is terrible and not useable to shuffle in the way I like to shuffle. I will always keep them, the art speaks to me, but they are very hard to manage. One way I use my cards is to simply shuffle them as a form of stress relief. To feel the cards, to see the colors and images sift by is soothing. The repetition of shuffle, bridge, form a pile repeat is meditative for me. I do wish publishers would consider how easy a deck is to shuffle before they produce it. May-be we as the tarot community send mixed messages about the cardstocks we prefer? Just a thought. lol
Oh yeah, I think there's a lot of blame that can be rested at our feet (myself included!) because we hyped up these "lush" decks so much when they first started coming out. I think it's just the newness of it that caught our attention, but turns out, that crap isn't worth much as a working deck. Maybe we as a community need to say, just kidding, give us the old school cardstock that actual functions as a deck of cards! :)
@@DawnMichelleTarot I'll say it lol "publishers give us cardstock we can shuffle with ease". !
Another nail on the head, Dawn Michelle. The choir echoes here. I've had hand surgery (which likely was hastened by shuffling decks that won't bend) so not gonna aggravate the situation ever again. No exceptions anymore, just too many other options to put up with it.
Yes. There are "looking at pictures" decks and "working with" decks. Come to think of it; most of my working decks are lo scarabeo or llewellyn.
I will never ever ever ever EVER understand what people have against the Llewellyn cardstock! It's so good!!!
What was the first Llewelyn deck you showed? I have to agree I hate thick cardboard card stock and I have a disease that my joints go out of joint with pressure so I can shuffle them. Thank you. Sorry just found the deck I should have known you would have all the info in the description you always do. Love and light to you and your family, also any fur babies
This is such a personal theme to people. Because we all like different qualities to the deck. It is rarely the artist’s fault. And the companies cannot make everyone happy about their choice. However, we do pay for these decks and companies should need to listen to what people need. Like we want timeless decks that won’t rip or break, they cant serve us those cards that wont handle a teardrop of water. But our consumerism help them just rush those types of decks out. As consumers we truly need to start being more critical towards our purchases. I also think that if we truuuuly love an art we can make it work somehow. It challenges us to think new ways of reading…
Lo Scarabeo wins for me, except for their newer more expensive decks. It just fits in my hands and shuffles like a friggin card deck! I don’t understand why every company doesn’t take their cue because they know what’s up as far as cardstock.
I would love to see a video of your decks that you don't use that are just for collection 😊
Totally agree with all your points about the card stock. I also love to shuffle the Terra Volatile
I absolutely agree, but I consider myself on the opposite side of spectrum. I personally love chunky decks! I have small hands as well. I find that the chunky decks force me to be more intentional when I shuffle. I make it a whole ritual for myself. Thinner card stock just feels weird to me when I’m shuffling. Different strokes for different folks though! I can absolutely see how chunky decks can be really difficult to work with.
I broke in my hush tarot just so I could bridge it. It leaves creases on the cards but I feel better handling it now.
Thank you for this. I have issues with my hands due to minor arthritis and after breaking my hand in high school and again two years ago. I don’t have the strength anymore. Some decks are really difficult to work with. One is the Modern Witch. I can use it but it is difficult, second is the Everyday Enchantment tarot. The cards are HUGE. I’ve never trimmed a deck but I will with that one. Even then it will still be big cards. I absolutely adore the artwork and the books but the card stock is a negative.
Your absolutely right, the everyday enchantment tarot has terrible cardstock. It is hard to shuffle and the two parts of the deck (split deck box) came cut in different sizes. You can tell by looking at the deck which card was in which part of the box 😂
Nevertheless I love this deck, it is my family deck, and I accept the imperfections of this deck as I accept the imperfections of our family. Just a normal family with edges 🤩
But the cardstock is terrible
I broke my hand a coupe of years ago and I loved the Modern Witch during that time as it fanned so beautifully I could fan and pick when I couldn't shuffle.
But I hear you I could not riffle that deck! I have arthritis also.
Oh, preach it! I've reached the point where I find myself groaning when I read the description of an indie deck I really like the look of...only then to hit that line about the "luxurious 420 gsm cardstock" or whatever that they're cheerfully boasting about planning to print it on.
I hit that line and instantly, I'm envisioning having to use ye olde 'breaking the deck into three parts and riffle shuffling them all separately...then mashing them back together (because of course they won't bridge), and then combining those sections in various permutations..." shuffling technique, and both my hands and my head start hurting just thinking about it. I have far too many decks that I need to shuffle that way, and I hate it.
There are soooo many decks in the world now if it doesn’t shuffle why would I reach for that one over another that is giving a much more pleasant experience
Totally this! I mean I have some decks that I make an exception for, but that's usually only cause I have some sort of a weird personal attachment to it lol. In general, it's a deck of cards and should work like a deck of cards! :)
I also have tiny hands and I have a lot of difficulty with larger decks. I have found that Llewellyn decks have been the easiest for me to handle and they hold up for a long time. I have difficulty getting my hand around even typical oracle sized decks, because I have extremely tiny hands, I usually have to overhand shuffle my oracle decks, which I don’t mind because that’s my preferred shuffling method, however I have found with especially large decks, I have difficulty handling them at all.
You have touched on a topic I have a problem with large decks. They cannot be shuffled and hard to manage cant understand why publishers do the cards to where people like us dont take into consideration.
Thanks for this vid, Dawn Michelle! I've been having this same tantrum since I started building my Tarot/Oracle/cartomancy deck collection. I have very small hands (my perfect size would honestly be standard playing-card size or tin/pocket-size) and I also deal with chronic tendonitis and dyshidrotic eczema, and I think publishers need to actually try using their decks or do quality assurance tests with different groups before sending them to market.
Watching you shuffle the Ask The Witch deck gave me second-hand (no pun intended) muscle cramps, and I don't know what masochist decided that some decks need to be so large or overtly stiff (they're not runes or domino tiles, lol). I understand it displays the artwork beautifully, but for folks with chronic pain and small hands, it's a nightmare! 😫
YES! I have tiny child-size hands and I haaaate gigantic thick-a$$ cards, ugh.
The deck that has the *perfect* cardstock IMO is the Anima Mundi Tarot. ***PERFECT*** cardstock!
Here's the thing: yes it might be hard to accomplish a cardstock that EVERYONE could use...that said it would be good to just get the feeling that mass market publishers UNDERSTAND that the cardstock is a part of the entire user experience of tarot. Ya know? just treat it like a thing that's important, cause it is.
Yes, yes, yes!!! Its so frustrating when a beautiful deck is printed on a cereal box!! I was so excited about bonefire. I have never, ever taken it out of the box again since the week I bought it. Totally horrible. Xx
oh no! I just ordered this! ugh
@@CherrySprinkles Oh no! It's literally so beautiful. I hope they've changed the card stock!? Xxx
I have long fingers, but shuffling is also a calming and contemplative spiritual practice for me-and some decks do enhance or hinder that. I am willing to meet a deck halfway and reflect on/alter my approach when the cardstock suits the deck and has other appealing qualities (a nice sound and feel, a compact or sturdy traveler, a big easel to set out solo, a touchy customer who rewards patience-variety for different uses and moods). The place I struggle is when I find the cardstock unpleasant to touch, for reasons that are hard to explain. Sometimes mods help, but the sensation of the deck in my hands seems to be pretty personal and not dependent on cost or common consensus.
Thank you! ☺️✌️✨ I 100% agree with you. There are quite a few decks on my shelves which I never use, specifically because they are either too large or too stiff to handle. Shuffling is my meditative, connective preparation for a reading, and like you, if it’s hindered or difficult then I’m not going to use that deck. Period. No matter how beautiful it is. 🤷♀️ I have created my own oracle card deck and paid specific attention to the card stock, because of how avid a shuffler I am! It’s so important. ✅✅✅
I am on board with this whole temper tantrum so much! I'm italian, I can assure you the deck is exaclty the same even in the italian edition ad I am sooooooo mad! Finally some italian creators are making a tarot deck (i even met the artist! he is such a nice person!) and I cannot work with it comfortably at all. I really like the art and the guidebook is very interesting, it's such a missed opportunity.
Totally agree!!I can't work with the Ask the Witch even though I think it is a great deck. I always tell the younger tarot readers in my circle never to buy the Schiffer/Red Feather decks cause of this and I accidentally broke my own rule because I wasn't paying attention. I think the Llewellyn cardstock is totally useable, I like the old stuff better too. I have gotten rid of so many decks due to cardstock. Now I really try just not to buy decks that are going to have that kind of cardstock. I am good at teaching others not to buy it so they don't have to deal with it. I just don't end up using my decks that I can't shuffle. The shuffle is so important to my practice.
I totally agree, it has to be usable and not many decks are for me because of size and cardstock
Linen cardstock is my favorite cardstock and I’m more likely to buy decks that are in this stock. I absolutely hate decks with thick cardstock like the Children of Litha and glossy cardstock like the Modern Witch. So, I’ve kinda made a rule that I’m not buying glossy cardstock regardless of how much I love the deck. I primarily rifle shuffle so linen or pocket decks are best for me.
“It’s so useable and shuffleable!” To who? For who? My hands are weak, small, and sensitive. This is another reason I like to buy indie (almost exclusively) bc I want to be able to work with the deck. There are some indie decks that have horrible cardstock but at least I’m aware of that beforehand. If your deck can only be shuffled one way or HAS to be shuffled and used in a specific way isn’t a good product and I personally don’t want it.
I have really small hands. There are lots of decks that are a challenge to shuffle. But when you add big cards and cardboard card stock. It’s impossible and painful. I mostly blame it on the size of my hands, but I agree with you that it’s on the companies and production. Thanks for the rant. I totally enjoyed the small hands perspective.
I agree 100%. Shuffling cards is asmr for me. I have big hands, and those type of decks can't be shuffled, period! Blue Angel publishes cards like this, too. I've found oracle cards are usually guilty of this. I am older now, and disabled with arthritis, so always look to see if there's a pocket size and get that first. I hate large decks, and decks that are so thick you can't even hand over hand shuffle. This deck you showed is definitely one of those. Thick, "sticky" cards just don't work. And don't even get me started on the cheapo, flimsy, thin decks, lol! I always return decks that are too thin. I would try to contact the creator of this deck to let them know, and return it with cardstock as the reason for return. ✌️❤️
Yes please tell them. We’ve been saying !!!
As soon as I saw the title and the Ask thr Witch Tarot I was like YEP. This is exactly what made me move it out of my collection, despite it being a really intriguing deck. It was unusable to me
Yep ❤️ 💯 I recently picked up a beautiful shuffler (Sausilburito Tiny Traveler) that reminds me why I often prefer indies and will pay more for them. It literally flows, it just feels right, it is a tool, they need to be usable no matter what. Preach on sister! (Eta given a choice I will always pick matte over glossy. Esp bc if all else fails there's fanning powder to help un-stick but IDK how to un-gloss a card 😆)
✔️I totally agree with you. GSM definitely determines whether I purchase a deck. I recently received Tarot Nuages US games mass market perfection. Made it a set by ordering Gniedmann’s Lenormand. US games can be difficult to get in Canada at times. Where there is a will there is a way. ❤️🙏🏼 If art work is appealing to me and the card stock isn’t I just don’t order I know it will sit because part of the experience,feel,zone is lost. ☹️I’m very happy that the Terra Volatile has brought out the edition with thinner stock and linen finish. Thank you for your rant I hope you’ll be heard.
I loved everything you said and couldn't agree more!! I have re-homed SO many beautiful decks because they were just unusable to me: thick, stiff and/or oversized cards, gilding that hurt my hands, rose petal finish etc. So frustrating! I kind of wish all mass market decks could have the same cardstock and size as the older style Lo Scarabeo decks (the ones in tuckboxes, like the Ceccoli) or the Fournier decks :D! I've only ever had one Llewellyn deck and it was the mini-sized Everyday Witch, so I don't really have any experience of their standard tarot cards, but since so many people complain about their cardstock, I have a feeling I would probably like it :D :D. I really like MakePlayingCards' cardstock, and of indie decks the best shuffling experiences for me (besides Terra Volatile) have been the Darkness of Light 4th edition and the 5 Cent Tarot.
Thank you for making this video, I really enjoyed it :)!
I literally just figured this out from something you said in one of your previous videos!
You really hit the nail on the head.
I can't deal with cards that are too thick or big or both.
The Green Witch is one of the decks that hits the sweet spot for me. I enjoy the shuffle as much as the reading :)
Although you can't beat my original 90's blue rose RWS
There are a few decks that go just a bit too thin and papery but for the most part decks are just too thick and cardboardy to enjoy 😡
Personally I really love the super thick sturdy cardstock, I love the way it feels in my hands. I prefer them unbendable, since I'm a very rabid and very clumsy overhand shuffeler and it makes them live way longer. But admittedly these sturdy decks tend to be way too big for my tiny hands 😅 It would be so cool if we could simply costumize the size and cardstock of the decks we buy.
Oh my goodness, you pretty much summarized all my thoughts on tarot / oracle cardstock! I also make an exception for the Moonchild Tarot because of my connection to it, but I do find myself reaching for the Starchild Akashic more often because of the cardstock and size. Shuffling is important to me in bonding with and using my decks, so being be to riffle shuffle and hand over hand shuffle is personally important to me as well. Size and cardstock seem to be more of an afterthought with more attention payed to luxurious feel, grander art, and excessive durability. I’m not a professional reader using my decks all day everyday, and it could be that increased interest in and the growth within the tarot community, especially the number of professional readers, are driving publishers’ choices than the needs of the “typical” practitioner. I am in no way blaming or trying to blame cardstock and size issues on professional reader; I’m only giving a suggestion to what publishers are focusing on more and why. I love how you brought up the issue of accessibility. The needs of those who have difficulty with using their hands also need to be considered, as the number of individuals with related issues is only going to increase. I have issues with using my hands (for fine motor movements like writing) and I would hate to have mine and others practice and deck options become increasingly limited due to the non-usability of cardstock. I feel same way about the issues posed for individuals with smaller hands. Both groups have needs that should be considered. I really only need the cardstock to be useable without being too thick or thin that I am bending cards by riffle shuffling.
Thank you for such a wonderful and important video! I look forward to seeing more on this topic in the future! 🖤🖤🖤
I LOVE Llewellyn card stock. I don’t understand the hate. Honestly, Llewellyn decks are my favorite. They have the best type of guidebook in my opinion. Glossy, full color and they smell so good.
Such a great video. Thank you.
Their guidebooks do have a lovely smell! :)
Shuffling is part of the reading process and so important. I agree the cardstock absolutely matters and the size does for me also. What a shame about that cardstock and size for that deck. I am definitely more of a matte gilding than a metal gilding for sure. 💖
Totally agree with you 100%. I adore Loscarabo/Llewellyn decks BECAUSE their cardstock is perfect. My tarot temper tantrum is (embarrassingly) deck backs!! Ughhhh I get so upset when I find a deck where the art work speaks to me then I see pictures of the back & get completely turned off.
I like large thick card stock and linen stock although I don't mind the Llewellyn ones. I guess deck creators are damned if they do and damned if they don't. What actually annoys me is card stock that has a bow. And although I do love the smell and feel of US Games card stock, they are kind of hard to edge like they don't absorb the ink very well.
Oh for sure, there's no way to make everyone happy so I feel for them there. I just wish (some) publishers would give a little more consideration to the fact that these are tools and should be useable in a way that a deck of cards is meant to be use. :)
Omg, I can't count how many card stock rants are in my videos! Bad card stock is an utter failure to acknowledge how the product is used. I think there are collectors that aren't professional readers that like huge cards because they don't actually have to use the deck. But I agree 100%--for those of us that are actual readers it's a TOOL and to ignore how that tool is used to me is terrible egotism on somebody's part. Some may think that thicker cards will last longer. But when it thick cardboard and it stays bent after you shuffle...BAH!!! I also adore linen carstock--easy to shuffle, durable, wonderful! It's one of the main reasons the Pavlov deck is often in my hands lately. I've been thinking about doing a video on this same topic, but maybe now I don't have to! 😘
Frankly, I purchase decks based on artwork, guidebook and packaging. As much as I totally resonate with your enjoyable rant, card stock is important but not a deal breaker. I consider hard to work with (shuffling), decks special and need love too. I have more of a problem with large cards, as my hands are small.
You are a joy to watch and listen to. Thank you for all your hard work.
"This is a coaster" 🤣🤣 As someone who has small hands and arthritis, I totally agree with your arguments. You're voice got noticeably calmer as soon as you shuffled the Terra Volatile.
Yeah, it's really interesting, the less aggravated I am about the tactile experience of the deck, the calmer the whole process becomes for me. :)
I understand your point of view completely. And it's so nice to have a flowing deck in your hand.
But yet when I first started and I'm still pretty much a beginner... The content of what's inside, and I know you don't disagree, precedes anyway.
I suppose because of that, some companies feel that content deserves postcard thick picturesque statement kind of backing.
Which for beginners, kind of has a nice "match" if you would, to the experience. Of message.
When I first started the journey of tarot. And I touched the different kind of cardstocks. I could not understand why they made them so thin and small compared to the bigger ones that were thicker. It seemed to not give it enough justice. I came to understand that flow was part of the experience. But first I had to learn the importance of the content. Some of these decks I suppose, the company must kind of think along the line of a beginner. I'm sure they don't actually sit and practice. With the results of this kind of cardstock. Giving it,"thick importance" lolol
Of course it's hard to explain. I hope I did some sort of justice to what I'm trying to say. I understand
OMG Yes!! I just ordered The Essential Tarot and I think they use the same cardstock as the Ask The Witch!! I swear, I couldn't even hold it in my hand it was so ugly... 🤢 The borders where atrocious and the thickness of the cards was unacceptable. I mean, the "feel" in your hands and the way you can hold the deck and shuffle IS part of the whole experience. It does matter!
Agreed. Card stock matters. An important thing for me is a deck that fans nicely. Or that whispery Matt like the Spirit Keepers Tarot. That sound as the cards pass each other. ❤
Ooh that's such a good sound!
I appreciate that for many people who riffle shuffle thick cards are a problem. I really like thick decks however because I like working with a tool that feels durable. I just shuffle in one of the many other ways there are. Overhand or side layer is a good way to deal with these decks. Llewelyn stock is pretty but I get scared to overuse it. For the cost of their decks I would love a bit thicker stock. For me The Cosmic Slumber, Tarot of the Divine and Mystic Moments is my favourite card stock. I have small hands too but just really like being gentle with my cards since I don't live in the US and buying and shipping a deck to me is an investment. My pet peeve is spending sometimes the same cost of the deck to ship it to me and find out how flimsy the stock is.
You said it again. The Coaster things was just the word for it.
I have this problem with the Modern Witch Tarot which I looooove. After trimming the individual card size is fine now, but the deck in its entirety is still sooooo chunky.
Yes, So did I. I have large hands but that deck was so thick and unmanageable that I ended up returning it because I was unable to shuffle them. Too thick, it’s ridiculous
That's exactly how I feel about the Modern Witch Tarot. I love the artwork but I just cannot shuffle it. I get frustrated with it and then it just ruins the whole reading. I plan on trimming them sometime.
I decided to buy the german edition of the Modern Witch Tarot and the cardstock is superb!
Yeah. I own the White Numen deck (possibly same publisher) and its like cardboard. I love the art so much but some of the cards have already begun to peel on the edges. I don’t even bridge shuffle so its a real shame. Cardstock does matter a lot because tarot is a very tactile experience, for me at least.
I have smaller hands (at 4 ft 6 all of me is smaller). My best tarot decks for shuffling are Witches Tarot (Ellen Dugan), Legacy of the Divine Tarot, Tarot of the Hidden Realm, and Tarot of Vampyres. All mm with thinner cardstock that nobody gushes over. I enjoy using Light Seer's mm, but it is a little less easy to shuffle. The Wild Unknown pocket shuffles fine face down, but for some reason face up (how I clear after a reading) is more difficult than with any other deck I have.
Thanks for the perspective.
I care way less about how fancy and lux the deck looks than I do about how useable (easy to shuffle) it is.
I feel this way about the Modern Witch Tarot! SUCH a cool deck with the most amazing vibes, but the card stock and size makes it unusable for me.
I couldn't agree more. I also riffle and bridge, and have small hands. I have a hard enough time stretching my hands/fingers to shuffle a "normal" tarot deck. I have to shuffle the cardboard-like ones in sections, but even then they clump and don't shuffle well, like the deck in your video. As a result, I rarely use them. Shuffling is also part of my tarot practice, and when I have to alter the way I do it because of the cardstock, it takes me out of the meditative state. I'm focused on mixing up the cards sufficiently instead of on the question.
At this point, I translate complaints about "flimsy cardstock" as a sign that 1) I can shuffle it and 2) it's probably not flimsy, at least by my standards.
hehe same! A flimsy cardstock for most people is probably close to my preferred cardstock. :)
I hear you loud and clear. I love a good quality card stock. Shuffling is a major part of reading Tarot - it helps me focus on the question at hand, calms me, grounds me, … for the best reading. This is why I can’t really use rose-petal finish of the Dark Mansion and the Meraki Tarot. And size matters because if the cards are too big like the Everyday Enchantment Tarot, I can’t shuffle it without thinking about how I can shuffle it (I’m not courageous enough to trim my cards). I’m glad they’re part of my library of cards though. Thank you for your ranting
You describing cards as coasters made me chuckle 🤭 Cardstock does matter! And so does size, indeed. Have you seen the Alchemical Visions Tarot? It looks so interesting and deep but it is humongous! It really doesn't make sense and I keep hoping for a regular sized edition of that one. Thanks for sharing!
Rant? No… this is an informative lecture that needs to be forwarded to all publishers. Preach! 😂 on the opposite end of the spectrum… I ordered a wish version of a deck I already have three “real” copies of (for a very miniature travel version) and not two months of use and the backs are wearing through the colour, and it’s not bowed… it’s w’d. I might get another and re-back it with contact paper. I use shuffling to meditate and calm anxiety. Although I don’t like buying knock offs, it started playing card size, and after trimming off the borders is 1.75x3.5” and tucks into any purse. If re-backed it will go from about 0.75 to 1.4” thick which would be fine I think, or I could see about using a thinner contact paper.
❤❤ I've had this on my queue to watch for a while and it's so interesting what different folks prioritize with cardstock. I buy more indie than MM, so I'm less familiar with the differences in publishers, and I overhand shuffle and have average-ish hand size. But I DO get frustrated with decks where the cards are always going to fall on the floor (which happens with that high-gloss style that the Red Feather ones appear to be) as well as gilded decks (that tend to stick.) I'm still struggling to identify the exact words to look for on a Kickstarter to ID how well the cards are going to overhand shuffle, but I totally agree with you that the experience of shuffling is an important part of the reading! I don't fan, and I also tend to shuffle while I'm dropping in and as I'm waiting for a card to "feel" right. If the cards keep falling or sticking, it takes me out of it.
I like to sing to myself when things don't go as planned....
"I swear, by the moon and the stars in the sky: I'll be there, for better or worse, till death do us part, I'll love you with every beat of my heart."
Really, I wish all tarot AND oracle cards would come in the same size as the tarot in a tin decks or in poker card size - I like the card stock on those fine, or a standard lo scarabeo. I am starting to be ok with the size on those. If the art is so detailed the cards need to be larger, it’s not a deck it’s an art book. I can’t shuffle at all except for an awkward overhand shuffle so I sort my cards into piles and then do a little of my awkward shuffle.
I am amazed by some of the unusable card stock. It's as if the publishers don't understand what cards are for. I've had decks that are so "rose petal" that they clump no matter what and are too thick to riffle shuffle and I've had other decks where the card stock feels like a cut up cereal box. And is it just me or do these ginormous cards discriminate against people with smaller hands, i.e., often females? I actually really love Llewellyn card stock. It feels good to work with and it doesn't hurt my hands -- and it's very satisfying to riffle shuffle. Thank you for sharing your rant!!
I have large hands, I couldn't get my hands around that deck. I was absolutely in love with the art, but never even could do a single reading The Ask the Witch tarot. I was kind of heartbroken to admit that I was never going to bond with it for reading. I loved the art so much. But I had it for weeks and always made excuses for why I couldn't do a reading when I'd go to do one... My younger sibling loved the art as well and took the deck, it's their favorite deck they have now. But I'll never know how they manage to read with it. Because, as I mentioned, I have large hands. They however have ~tiny~ hands. I'm glad someone in the house is able to use it and love it, but I am so upset that it was so unusable for me. All the production clearly went into the book, which I did love the book. But the book becomes pretty useless when you can't use the cards... I'd really love if it would be released again in the future with better cardstock. I'd be so excited if they did that because I really wanted to love the deck as a whole. I just couldn't when it was impossible for me to want to read with it, because truth be told, I barely wanted to touch it because of how the cardstock felt in my hands.
For those of us with really small hands, smaller than yours, it becomes the new norm to riffle in halves, and/or to get better at overhand (I think my hands are smaller than yours, based on the difficulty I have with standard-sized decks that I've seen you shuffle). One deck that gets a lot of cardstock hate is Modern Witch, but I love it, in part because of its thick, glossy cardstock! Some decks, like the Mother Mary Oracle, are unwieldy, big, and glossy, but I wouldn't change that because I love the big, shiny, bordered art! That said, some decks do just have needlessly really bad quality cardstock with no core and no flex, like the Northern Animal 2nd ed. (if a card in that deck bends, it's snapping in half, and it's shocking how light-weight that deck feels in your hands!) And some have a terrible finish that scratches way too easily, like Radiant Wise Spirit. People will have different preferences on size, thickness, and gloss, but I think most would agree on wanting a core/some flex/some weight and wanting a finish that doesn't scuff at the slightest touch! The good news is, there are so many to choose from, and so many mini versions coming out, that you can easily be selective about cardstock/size and still have so many to choose from!
I couldn't agree with you more:) I've been blessed with small hands & a health disorder that causes me arthritis & my joints to often dislocate (mostly my fingers)... so cardstock is a big factor determining if I purchase (or keep) a deck. Of course, we're all going to like something different but I'm with the same opinion as you...I've gotta be able to shuffle, slow, ground & center while preparing for my card use & with a deck that feels good doing so. Great Video!!!
Also, one of the biggest disappointments for me is when the cards are not cut evenly. Every single time I get a deck where they split the cards into two groups in the box, they're cut differently, making them absolutely impossible to riffle. HATE.
I agree! What is with the split box thing? I mean I get it from a production standpoint but it often comes at the detriment of the cards! It’s also makes them a pain for storing (if someone wants to store their cards in the box is actually came in!) Some of these publishers give no thought to how these tools are actually used. Thanks for listening to my rant! 😁
Thank you Dawn I agree with you❤
I just bought The Queer Tarot and I love the art and everything about it. But the cardstock is JUST ridiculous thick and I have pretty big hands for a woman. I'm not a riffle shuffler, but even overhand is super difficult. It's similar to the archetype deck by Kim Krans which is also stupidly thick.
True heart tarot card stock I have a big issue with it,im still unsure what to do with mine since it's trimmed
I was thinking of trimming mine, doesn't sound like that helped though. It's huge and already inflexible.
@@steffymuze yea didn't help mine ,I just wish the card stock was better
I love the large sized decks personally. The Queer Tarot is the same, love how solid the cardstock is. I guess it comes down to preference
Ooh totally! It’s a very me thing, I have small hands so I struggle with larger decks but I know lots of people who actually prefer them because you get more/bigger art. So I can totally see that too. 😁
Can definitely understand how you feel. Personally, I love cardstock like the Moonchild though, as it feels wonderful to me and the rose petal finish adds to my enjoyment. I have too much arthritis to riffle shuffle anyway, so I am good with the overhand shuffling.
🙏…seriously, shuffling is soooo important! Small hands (45 + year old hands as well lol)…I can NOT shuffle some of these amazing decks. It bums me out! Great video…fingers crossed 🤞 that publishers are listening!
*LOUDER FOR THE PUBLISHING COMPANIES IN THE BACK*
Cardstock is important to me but in different ways. My hands can't riffle shuffle, so thickness doesn't matter to me, except that thin cardstock like Llewellyn's feels cheap. I treasure the feel of good stock, not cardboardy, feels durable with a core. I love the way small decks fit in my hands but again, as I only overhand shuffle, a bit larger deck (if it has quality cardstock and art) is fine. Believe me, I'm so envious of people who can shuffle as it seems like a very cool and useful thing to do in working with a deck and it's clearly important to you and many others, but some of us can use the decks you find unusable. Sorry for your bad experience!
I hear you! Shuffling is really important to me as well. I much prefer thin bendy card stock.
I agree 100%. I will further say that I do not mind paying a couple to few extra dollars for something that lets me have a smooth tactile-focus relationship. It super impedes on my usability when I can’t “handle” the cards easily.
I totally associate with what you're saying when you refer to your shuffling as your grounding moment with your cards, the moment when you focus on why you're going to them and so on. That's why card stock is so important! The card stock can put me off completely to the point of not using a deck which is a real shame when the artwork calls to you. I, like you, like the Llewellyn card stock (I use my Tarot in Wonderland all the time and it's still going). It's not my favourite but it works. In my opinion, linen card stock is the best . I own 2 decks in this card stock ( The Stolen Child and the 1JJ Swiss by Pitisci) and they are a real pleasure to shuffle.So let's hope the publishers up their games and listen to what tarot readers are telling them. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this 😊.
Well said, Dawn Michelle! Although, I am (yet) unable to actually riffle shuffle...or "properly" shuffle 🥴 my preparation process is similar to yours, and so part of the bottom line for me about the cardstock is; it's important for the tactile and beauty for getting me into the zone for using the tool. 👏
I think card stock is so very subjective. So many people like so many different things. European customers LOVE super thin stock. Here in the US everyone wants thick stock. It's so hard to so universally what is good or what is bad. But I do agree, the decks that are made basically out of the same stock that cereal boxes are made out of are garbage. I personally despise the new Lewellyn cardstock, many like it, but I find it terrible. I find it does not last long, creases and peels easily; it is basically one step away from a cereal box. The old stock from like the 90s was the best in my humble opinion. I miss that buttery smooth papery feel of the days of yore.
Size is a completely different issue, and again subjective, not everyone riffle shuffles and so there may not be a need for small size. I personally hate smaller decks because I have bigger hands and is one of the reasons why I don't read playing cards or Le Normand. Sure, you can pile shuffle the deck, or use many other shuffling techniques out there. But like you I too have a mini ritual built into my shuffling so decks that I cant do that with are frustrating or a let down, but for other people it may be perfect and just sing.
In the end card-stock is not a one size fit all, it never ever, ever, ever will be. I think all us tarot readers are always on the quest for that 'holy grail deck' that has the perfect melange of art, style, theme, card-stock, size, et cetera. Not every deck or tool is going to be perfect for you, just like not every artist uses the same brushes or colors on their palette. If a color, or a brush doesn't work for an artist it doesn't mean they cant make great art, it just means they have to make art with different tools or media. I think this directly correlates to the art of reading tarot; if a deck size, theme, art style, card stock, et cetera, does not work for you, then that's okay find ones that do, because there is so much out there.
One can go the Picasso route and stomp down to your local art store and have them invent a whole new media for you (yes, that happened, he asked Sennelier to make him portable oil paint, and they invented the oil pastels we have today), basically making your own deck. In the end, just like with art supplies, you have the terrible stuff like Artists Loft at Micheals or you can go the expensive route of artist quality brands like Sennelier or Windsor & Newton. Sure you can make good art with below student grade materials, but the experience is going to be less enjoyable and the media is going to fight you every step of the way.
To go back to your discussion about tools, you may not want a 25lb hammer to drive a finishing nail into a wall, but you would certain want it to break up a slab of concrete. So every tool has its job, and its place. It is up to us as the craftspeople to select the right tool for the job. Oh, and don't go to Harbor Freight because most of their products are poor and cheap quality. All of this I think translates directly back to Tarot: Some publishers are making it very clear that they value quantity over quality, and sadly it has to be selling because they keep doing it. (Looking at you Insight Editions).
The only way we will get better card stock is to vote with our dollars. I think the one publisher who has really stepped up their game and found a decent middle ground in the past 5 years has be US Games. They have really been crushing the competition when it comes to quality these days from my perspective. I love the thicker feel of their stock. But for me the real winners are the indie decks like The Lonely Dreamer or Terra Volatile with their dreamy linen finish, or the new Baroque tarot with its deliciously buttery card stock that reminds me of vintage decks.
I certainly can understand getting in a deck that I am super excited about and being let down because it did not meet my expectations especially in the card stock because for me Tarot reading is such a tactile experience. But in the end I just take it as a message that its not for me.
Its too bad we cant get the mass market publishers to create a pick a stock print on demand system similar to the on demand print services out there. LOL!
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
US Games really has come a long way, I think they actually take the time to listen to what consumers want. And yes, totally, we vote with our purchases! It is such a personal thing and there is so much more that goes into it than just what the consumer wants. Because at the end of the day, these are products produced by businesses (at least for mass market) and I'm sure the bottom line is a huge consideration. I'll probably still throw a hissy fit when a deck makes me mad, but that's just me keeping life interesting lol. :)
What? You did a Ted Talk? 😮
Agreed. XD With all of them lol (and I raise you on the Llewellyn box because that needs to be smaller!)
Hehe I would be on board with that too! Less focus on packaging, more focus on the actual product! 😀
@@DawnMichelleTarot Ikr? I need more economical packaging in all the ways!
I don’t dislike thick cardstock per sé, I do agree that especially in mass market publishing, the attention should always go towards the TOOL, not the box or the big book. I believe very often that it’s also a vanity thing where the ‘author’ comes in and wants things to be all about the writing, but then publishers forget what that writing was actually for: to work with the tool it’s packed with.
I loved this video. I feel the same way about the Vindur deck; the card stock of that deck is atrocious! The artwork is minimal and beautiful but I am so annoyed and upset that a deck so beautiful as the Vindur has to sit in my purgatory box. I have tried to use it to try and break it in but all to no avail, because that’s just the card stock and now it just sits there collecting dusk and it truly makes me upset. And I am not gonna subject my trimmer through that horror. Thank you so much for this topic 👏🏻😃👍🏻
I completely understand where you're coming from. I use Tarot for divination (along with other forms of divination.) I spend so much time studying tarot, I need a deck that has cardstock that I can shuffle however I want. Shuffling a deck is also important for me when it comes to getting into that headspace to do a reading, plus I also shuffle sometimes just because it's calming to me. The only deck I have made an exception for is the Modern Witch tarot. I love the images and the messages I have gotten, but if they ever made it in a linen cardstock, I'd buy that in a second. Thanks for this video!! ❤️
I agree that cardstock and card size matters when it comes to the actual usability of a deck (tarot or oracle). Because at the end of the day, if I don’t like the way it feels or if it’s too large or oddly shaped for me to handle, I’m probably not going to use it. I have been disappointed by cards that not only had crappy cardboard like card stock but also had hard gilded edges. And all I could think was WHYYYYYYYY?!
I can't tell you how many decks I have that I don't use as much as I would because the cardstock is bad.
I'm ok with oversized cards if I'm anticipating that, but what I really want is a card that is approximately normal tarot-card sized and stiff enough that I'm not worried I'm going to damage the cards by handling them, and big enough to really see the imagery.
I have the Enchanted Forest Tarot and I absolutely adore the illustrations, but the cards are so flimsy I worry about damaging them, and so small I feel like I have to squint to really see the detail in the images. I want to be able to sort of fall into a card and immerse myself in the imagery when it's a deck that has rich imagery, and I feel like I can't do that with this deck.
Decks are meant to be used and it’s such a shame when publishers seem to forget that.
I have noticed My favourite Denise Linn , Hay House edges the picture is starting to wear off. I love this deck and I only over shuffle this is diappointing because I love her cards . I am starting to appreciate boarders on cards, so the picture is secure, no slight on Denise Linn I love love love her decks. I have two and am wanting all of her decks :)
I don't have a lot of the same problems, because I'm an overhand shuffler. Also, I think I have mediumsized hands. I do have to say that the moonchild is a chunker and if it wasn't one of my favorites too, I would rehome it.
I’ve said like who do they think are using these decks!!
Danny Devito!!! I'm dying! 🤣🤣🤣
I so totally agree with you. I ordered some. Images are nice but cards stock is truly shitty. Sorry
I agree with all the different characteristics. Borders, colors, non matching color backs, cardstock a.nd sizes I can actually shuffle, etc. Thank you for speaking it. Plus decks are expensive, some outrageous. I'm in Canada and come on. Some prices are out of this world.thanks for your review. All you brought up about handling a deck is right on. I love to hold the cards & shuffle them in my small hands
I'm truly happy you opened this subject. You are so 👍
It feels like it shouldn't be such a struggle to get cards I can actually use. :)
@@DawnMichelleTarot I feel exactly the same way. Just learned to live with it. But not enjoyable that part; which is BIG PART in our pleasure to use our cards. Thank you. I'm so glad someone opened the subject. Let's hope it's heard !!!
💯 agree!!! Even if I like the deck, if it's published by schiffer or red feather, I will not buy it. The only deck I have by them is the Mary-el and I NEVER use it for this exact reason. I would like to have the Gaian Tarot, but absolutely not with those ridiculous blue and oversized borders. It amazes me that they have been using that same crappy, shiny, sticky cardstock for years.
Sometimes I think that publishers go with really thick cardstock because they think that it feels like better quality, but there's a balance. There's such a thing as too heavy.
I'm sure there are cost considerations in there too. :) I'm just be happy when my deck of cards function like a deck of cards!
What pains me about the Tarot Noir is that it would be my soul deck art wise if it weren't for the fact it's so darn massive, it's infamously big. I read "jumpers" and also like using large spreads with Marsielle and pip decks so it just drives me nuts that it's so big and I'm a very tiny person. I was advised to try out Trionfi della Luna because it's got similar energy in a more manageable size, but I really wish Tarot Noir was half the size.
I absolutely hate those kinds of decks. The art work might be beautiful but if it hurts my hands to shuffle it I end up not using it. The deck just sits there being unused. And I don't even have small hands, but some of these decks, the cards are so stiff and large, I can't really work with them. It literally hurts to try to shuffle.
And I'd rather have nice comfortable deck that I can riffle in a tuck box than a deck that has a massive guidebook and fancy box, but it is uncomfortable to shuffle.
For so many of us this is our job. A client isn't going to want to watch us struggle to shuffle a deck, have cards fall over over the place and have it take twice as long for so called "luxury card stock". I'm sure they'd be second guessing the cards in that case. I remember seeing a deck that looked gorgeous but no card stock listed. I asked and the creator was like "the best, it's 400 gsm". I did not purchase.
Sorry to spam you with comments lately. The UK heat wave has me holed up in the coolest room in the house today with my laptop, just trying to survive without AC, but the shiny silver lining of that is catching up on your videos! And ahhh, do I love a good rant (especially when husbands are thrown under the bus 😆). But yes. This. I have never cared how "luxe" a deck's cardstock might be (thickness, gilding, rose-petal finish, etc.) and favored Llewellyn and linen from the start. Make Playing Cards smooth is quite nice, too, and I like a deck I can just shuffle even if not for a reading, just to decompress and relax. (And also, Danny DeVito as the oracle deck of a reading is just about the best thing I've ever heard. 🤣)
Yeah to staying cool during the heat wave (we had one of those a few weeks ago) and I'm so glad you're getting a chance to catch up on videos! I love a good shuffle to help me relax, it's also great for when anxiety flares up. :)
I also have tiny hands and shuffling can be a problem for sure. I'm with you on llewellyn cardstock, I don't mind it and I can use it, but I wish it was (and US Games too, looking at you borderless deviant moon) a little less chippy. However I am in the unpopular crowd in that I hate rose petal finish. It's sticky when you shuffle it, it shows finger prints sometimes, and I much prefer something satin so it's not super matte but definitely not glossy. The Moonchild is almost unusable for me due to its size and bulk... its more the bulk and cardboardness that make me shelf that one a lot :( Do publishers even listen to us? I will say that I do like llewellyn's customer service too.