How to Choose the Right Rocker Arms
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Valvetrain stability is EVERYTHING. When you don't have it, you don't make power. Rocker arm choice is one of the critical decisions that can make or break your build. We'll take a look at some popular choices and how to make the right decision.
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Always a good day when one of your vids comes up. This is superb. I'm pushing your video to a friend of mine who is looking at building a Small Block Chevy, as you sum it all up better than I ever could. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
Very much appreciate that! I tried to look at this more through the lens of a street/strip type of user and what info they needed to know. Hope your small block guy finds it useful! Thanks for your support my friend!
Good presentation 👍 You did mix up closed and ipen pressures a couple times.
David Vizard is one of few who ever mention off the seat effective ratios when comparing the same overall ratios. He says there is significant power right there.
Thanks for review.
Excellent info & well put together.
Cheers 😊
Cool. Thanks!
great description
I got a set of Comp Magnum Roller tip rockers for SBC: going to run a .510/.533 elgin 1006-P bracket hyd flat tappet cam. Power band is 3200 to 6500 rpm. Will running this type rocker, say right up to 6500+ be a no-no? Or am I splitting hairs?
I plan on manual trans so a missed shift might be an occasional factor and result in revving up to 7000+ on occasion.
Just wanting to dot my I'm and cross T's as I gather parts for my build.
Loved the part on the cast bodied rockers.
I agree comp pro magnum rocker is best for overall performance. Been using since they came out and use on all HP builds. I don't like using aluminum rockers on street cars due to decreased lifespan compared to a stainless steel or chromoly rocker. Only use Harland Sharp aluminum rockers on my drag race 7000-8500 RPM builds. Plus their shop is only 30 minutes away from me if I need assistsnce. I am a loyal customer because they are so amazing as a business and manufacturer. Shaft rockers are used by us for ultra hardcore racing only builds also but cost serious money which deters some people for sure. Thanks for the breakdown that looks a lot better then any Summit Racing videos on their CZcams channel. 👍
Bought a project from a friend fresh off the dyno( 3 years later) that he said had T&D rockers, never seen T&D before so popped a valve cover and I find Jesel 7000 Pro Series aluminum light weight, i'm not complaining....................
I have a question. I am doing a valve job on my 454 BBC Chevelle and replacing my camshaft with a hydraulic roller. I am going with a smaller duration (264/270) and smaller lift (.510/.510) than I have now. The rockers I have are the Crane Gold rockers, which are used for higher RPM applications. Since I am going to a more mild valve-train, can I still use these beefier gold Crane rocker arms or do I need to buy a set that is more suited for a mild street application?
You’re probably ok to continue to use them, but I’d check on them occasionally to make sure they aren’t wearing prematurely. They do require a bit more oil to have a long healthy life. Street driving doesn’t usually give that.
Hello, and very good info here as usual! Question: How do the ratios come into play? Not really understanding that aspect. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it is appreciated very much.
Ratio doesn’t come into play when selecting a type of rocker. Ratio and specifically desired ratio changes when selecting a new cam does. Different video. I’ll likely do more cam selection and valvetrain videos soon.
@@MuscleCarSolutions Ok, thank you! Looking forward to viewing those!
This is a great video I definitely picked the wrong brand of roller rockers I went with proform and goodness are they loud
Sorry to hear that! Nothing worse than a noisy valvetrain!
Awesome video!!!
Thanks!
I want steal roller rockers for my Magnum 360. Hard to find.
Thanks
Question will the COMP Cams 1620-16 Ultra Pro Magnum Rocker Arm Set fit under a stock height valve cover. This is a real problem for me, as I can't use tall valve covers due to my power brake booster being less than 1" away. Thanks
Doubtful. Get rid of the booster and go hydroboost or to a manual brake.
This is a great video.
Cool. Thank you!
Hello :
I have a question, I have a 68 396 Camaro, what do you recommend and I have to change the springs or is it not necessary?
Rewatch the video. You didn’t provide any of the information to make a selection.
So I have a Twin Turbo 408 stage 4 BTR custom cam Turbo cam…I’ve been debating if I should trunnion upgrade the factories or get 1.8 aftermarket rockers they are $530…Any suggestions or recommendations? Should I trunnion upgrade or buy aftermarket 1.8 for $530…engine setup going in street car
Not a fan of the tooley stuff when they switched from COMP to cam motion. Valvetrain got really noisy. Comp has those awesome low shock lobes that keep the noise down. Couple that with their new Evolution lifters that are super quiet and a tooley valvetrain will sound like a rattling old donkey cart next to the Comp. Which leads to your question. The factory rocker arm is just fine with the trunnion upgrade. Unless you think you need more lift, I wouldn’t switch. The power gained would be unnoticeable.
Are the ultra pro magnums good for a stock cam ls3? Thinking of doing 1.8 ratio. Also what valve springs do you recommend with that setup?
Stock LS3 go right back with the stock rocker arm with the trunnion upgrade. Better to change the cam to get what you’re looking for than change the rocker arm ratio. Duration is far more important than lift.
@@MuscleCarSolutions I know what you're saying but don't want to do an aftermarket cam. Hated the last 2 I had after awhile. Was looking to get rid of the stock trunion problem while gaining a few extra ponies
Great info !! Thanks again !!
I have read on many forums that the Comp Cam Magnums get dumped on why is that ?
On my SBC i went with the 1.6 Ultra golds great addition.
The magnum roller tip rockers have been out for 30+ years. They work fine. It’s usually when folks go outside the boundaries that problems occur and the rockers get the blame.
And as always, I very much appreciate you watching and dropping a comment!
@@MuscleCarSolutions Thanks for the info. Keep the videos coming!!!
missing roller that is where most friction is .
to heavy bending rocker studs and causing valve float
picture a 2 man saw moving back and forth on tree stump thats how they move not just teeter totter.
then put a 600 pound weight on Top of middle of saw
saw right through the log if you could move saw
it has a 500 pound 350 chevy sitting on your saw
How do the sbf scorpions compare to the new stuff?
Don’t know. I’ve never really bought into the brand. I’m sure they work well, just never been on my radar.
You mentioned that the comp cam roller tip rockers are sometimes too long on valve side and rides towards the outside of the valve stem. Is this a problem with all roller tip rockers or just comp cams? What about the full roller ones you showed, is it sometimes a problem with those too? I'm building a 68 pontiac 400 and that is exactly what is happening. Actually, there is also very little clearance on the pushrod where it goes through the head. I put a stamped steel rocker on just to see and it rides in the center of the valve and the pushrod is centered in the head hole.
Since nobody else commented I thought I would.
I am by no means a expert on Pontiacs, but they are there own animal just like olds are.
There are a number of good books written on them.
You might want to look up Vizard the Wizard. He has a bunch of good information out there on rocker and Valve geometry.
Valve stem height, rocker height / lenght and push rod length comes into play here. Valve stem too high and the rocket will hit closer to the intake and push outward, to low and the rocket tip hits towards the exhaust and moves inward.
Your looking for a 1/4 from center towards the exhaust moving through center at half of maximum lift and 1/4 inward at full lift. Use a magic marker on the Valve stem and turn the engine through two full revelutions, it should give you a good pattern.
Two adjustable push tubes will help you get it right.
Pontiacs are known for not having very generous push tube clearance through the head. It is common when going over .500 lift the have to open them up for clearance. Even more so when lift and Valve spring seat and open pressures go up and tube diameter has to be increased.
Then, of course the more lift the bigger the chance of spring bind.
Hopefully this info is even slightly helpful.
Its supposed to do that as roller starts on far side of valve tip and valve goes down it rolls to closer side other wise it would fall
off valve.
less friction and bind on valve stem and roller rocker trunion .
a stock no roller rocker is angled and lenthened to slide back and forth
sorry didnt catch show more
hi there, my Chevy 350 from a 78 Camaro need rocker arm replacement, i looked online for a bolt one upgrade, is these roller rocker are direct replacemnt or need to modify anything to install them, my engine is still stock in every point is this will effect my engine or upgrade it , what you think?
On a stock engine it wouldn’t be an upgrade. No benefit to it.
I have a set of afr enforcer sbc heads that I put a set of scorpion rockers on with a hydraulic roller comp xr294hr cam and the correct pushrod puts the sweep pattern real close to the outside edge of the valve. The valves are +.100". Have you ever had trouble getting the sweep pattern away from the edge of the valve with proper geometry using the comp ultra magnum roller rockers?
Sounds like a push rod length issue. It’s not a rocker issue. Incorrect length is the issue.
@@MuscleCarSolutions I'm using the mid length method. That's the only way I know to get the smallest sweep pattern. Pushrod length should be spot on. I can shorten the pushrod, but the sweep pattern starts getting wider.
WELL SAID!!
Thanks man!
Hi, I have a 1996 Chevy Silverado with a 5.7 Vortec which I just had a roller lifter fail in it (oil not coming through) causing a push rod to bend and an exhaust valve to stick open. anyways... I started looking at these stock rockers as well and do not like the machining on them at all... creating weird wear patterns where the push rod sits. ever one of them has crappy machining with strange wear patterns. anyways... I'm keeping my engine fairly stock and maybe installing the hot cam for 5.7 vortec in the future. and since I have the heads off and apart, to replace damaged parts. I was wonder what better designed rocker you might recommend for mostly stock engines, with good oiling and longevity? I'm just looking for reliability mostly. Thanks for your time.
On a stock engine there’s not really any big upgrades on rocker arms. Comp makes a stiffer body stock rocker, but for what you’re doing, it’s unnecessary. I’d concentrate on the details of my you weren’t getting oiling to the top end. Might as well replace the oil pump and pickup while you’re at it and inspect the bottom end for any excessive wear/damage.
@@MuscleCarSolutions OK thanks. Oil pump is a brand new melling, I’m actually getting good oil pressure up top through all the lifters except for one, sorry if I didn’t explain it very well
I'm having trouble looking for rocker arms for a Oldsmobile rocket 350 would you have any suggestions it's gonna be a street car.
Comp makes a set of street rockers. amzn.to/3a63vzv
I used the street roller tip on my 455 olds. Use the guide plates and comps push tubes. You have to make sure the guide plates are aligned and don't rub on the tubes.
I would also suggest the adjustable rocker nuts. Just makes set up easier.
If you decide to do a cam change, make sure to use Olds lifters. The oil feed slot sits lower than all of the other GM lifters. The others will lift up above the guide bore and loose oil pressure.
hello i have a custom cam and m311 heads that come with .700 springs. i was recommended the “Harland Sharp Original Roller Rockers” to prevent valve wear and float but i was just told today by a very reputable tuner “If under .675 lift, stock rockers. Rollers add unnecessary mass to control.” so what do u think and/ or recommend for me?
The question is generally what are the spring pressures, retainer diameter and what the use of the engine will be. Generally speaking, roller rockers are unnecessary on a street engine. What are you building?
@@MuscleCarSolutions 2013 zl1 street car for rolls
Would you say I’d benefit from a roller rocker set up? I did a C.H.E trunnion upgrade. Naturally aspirated build making 600whp shifting around 7200-7600. With some .700 springs LSR lifters.
Id say your at 600 whp you never got to that kind of Rpm without them
isnt that upgraded roller rocker bearings .
youd know that if you built that.
@@alonzahanks1182 Truck made 612whp on pump e85 and I’m shifting at 7800-8200 now. Spring set up is near 180-190 on the seat and 475-500 open. Haven’t even switched to a roller rocker set up yet either.
@@rayraylsx1788 you typoed
you basically said you did a roller rocker up grade already a CHE trunnion upgrade is a roller rocker axel that bolts down
which is a pro roller rocker upgrade and your stock rockers will not work on them
I think you are thinking of trying Trunnion Roller rockers and that would be a good choice
what truck and engine you got ?
What about oiling? The comp magnums have larger oiling holes… will that affect oil pressure?
Negligible.
BBC cam card says 1.7 on it but is a 1.75 to much. Reason I ask is. I really like Jesel and found a set of 1.75 for the right money. I send you the durations of the cam if that helps. Thanks for taking the time on making video
It’s your piston to valve clearance you need to be concerned with. That’s something you’ll need to confirm. Your cam card should have the lobe lift number. Multiply it by 1.75 to get your new valve lift.
Hey I have a 96 4.0 i6 motor and I want to put bigger pistons and I was thinking Edelbrock head with Harland roller rockers I've never done this before so am I just throwing Parts together or would it all work or is that question for the machine shop ?????
What is your goal with that engine? What operating RPM? How are you planning on using it?
@@MuscleCarSolutions hey I thank you so much for getting back to me. I'm hoping for a motor that sounds stock but has a bit more power then completely stock I'm not sure if I could run seem cam with bigger pistons and Edelbrock head with Harland roller rockers I am very new to this whole 4. 0 motor but I'm really interested in what you would recommend I don't want it to sound cammed I wanted to idle normal but I also don't want to go 40 miles an hour up a hill at 4000 RPMs
@@jeepxj1434 it seems like you're planning on putting a bunch of money into this engine for not much increase in power.
I would go for some more compression, a torque cam with better lifters from comp cams, better steel roller rockers. Don't waste your money on a header, the 91 to 99 what manifold is more than adequate. Put on a good exhaust with less back pressure and a better sound. Upgrade the fuel system.
You would get your power increase and save money for the broken parts you will have
There is a bunch of jeep groups out the that could steer you in the right direction.
Loved the video and actually had the Comp Cam Magnums (1601-16) in my Summit cart. The springs I will have on my heads are 1.27OD, 155 lbs on seat, and .650 max lift. These rockers should be compatible right?
383 SBC / Comp Cam kit K12-423-8
Yup. The spring in that kit, depending on what your installed height is, will be way under the 850 lbs threshold. That’s a really good K kit as well. Great street cam.
Just out of curiosity, how did you like the setup? I have a 383 I am building with the same cam, what can you tell me about it?
@@brianchadwell2 wish I could tell ya more, but life keeps getting in my way on this build. Still haven’t put the engine together. Working on the differential and transmission at the moment.
@@ck1insac lol it took me nearly 3 months to get my trans and diff done, now I am waiting on the engine to be completed. Oh well..... Projects work like that sometimes.
So basically comp cams are the only gear that is that is worth having right.
Everything is application specific. Hands down Comp makes the best street rocker.
JESEL ?????????!!
YES ????????!!
It sounds like he knows his stuff. But that whistle!!! I had to turn it off after 24 seconds. Sorry.