At last, someone who simplifies points wiring so a oldie simpleton like me who is a newbie to the hobby as I am, can understand (ish). Thank you. (Have to do something now I don’t go up the Baggies!)
Hi... great video... I have built a TT120 layout with Hornby insulfrog points. I have had a few shorting problems with them... would you recommend the same wiring and use of insulating joiners to stop this happening. Cheers. Greg
Hello. Very good explanation. Even so, I have a doubt: In the last example, I think it's not neccessary to isolate both tails ends os the turnouts? Why did you isolate them?
I isolate them as these are electrofrog points and the triangle of track that's isolated can be either positive or negative depending on which way the points are set. Without isolating them we would get a short
@@BaggiesTMD I mean the positive left bottom join and the negative upper right join don't need to be isolated, since he two frogs are isolated. The left bottom positive will be allways positive and the upper right negative will be allways negative, so they do not need to be isolated. Is this correct? I've been doing this way and everything's been working fine.
@@BaggiesTMD so basically a little box that will switch polarity when it detects a possible short when the locomotive crosses the isolator? Also do I need to make a programming track for my layout? I am still in the planning stages and still researching DCC. Its just gonna be a layout that will maybe have 2 trains at once and not too large since the room I have to build it in is only 10.5ftx14ft
Thank you. Okay I have got that. So if I am using a slide switch to operate the points via a push rod, do I wire the 3 pin switch the same as DC when using electrofrog points? Ie...middle pin goes to frog and the the other two pins to pos and neg on the track?
Quote "DCC is two wires" Unquote. Oh dear, my TCC analogue system needs only ONE wire to all track sections and accessories, so uses roughly 60% of the wire needed for a DCC layout. But my TCC system does a lot more than even that, because it uses 12v DC in the rails. Direct Current (DC) has advantages over Alternating Current (AC) as you can run multiple circuits through one rail if necessary, from a host of transformer supplies, without fear of short circuits, or interference, which is NOT possible with AC. So I can have the train power supply; Track Circuit supply; Relay supply; Signal LED supply, and a dozen other power supplies each from a separate transformer (which avoids interference) and all can be run through one rail simultaneously without fear of short circuits. You see Direct Current will only return to the transformer it came from, no matter how many transformers are needed for all the various supplies. The only exception are my powerful motor driven point motors (Fulgurex) which require the polarity to be reversed in the wires to reverse the point. So these do need their own two wires under the baseboard for each point or crossover. Fulgurex (Switzerland) being the only mechanisms I have found that can deal with my scratchbuilt pointwork reliably. TCC also allows the real life interlocking between Track Circuits, points, signals and trains, and the trains AWS system. And all you need are a few relays and track circuits to make it all work. So exactly like the real railway it is virtually impossible to crash two trains, and will even stop your train if you try passing a red signal, thanks to the inclusion of AWS (Automatic Warning System) as found in the cab of every locomotive ! Maybe I should add, that I am a Railway Mechanical Engineer, so I have a very good idea of how to miniaturise real railway operation and signalling precisely to make model railways operation more precise and more enjoyable to operate. Indeed my operators never seem to get bored, even at week long German mega exhibitions. Happy modelling guys & gals !!!
INTERLOCKING SIGNALS WITH THE POINTS If this is for an EXHIBITION layout, (rather than a Toy train set) how have you built in your interlocking, TO THIS POINT. So as to ensure that Signals can only be "CLEARED" when the point is set for the route the signal is on ???
To be fair this layout has been ripped up, when I fit my signals and points I'll manually change the signals and points separately. I know this isn't true to real life but trying to work out interlocking is not my fortay and when I do run a layout like this I've never had any issues really apart from the odd SPAD that happens in real life to
Exactly what I was thinking. Or even a tick for a conductive fishplate, and a circle for insulator. I've done the latter, as I've followed along this video to make my own copy of the diagram!
Just be aware that there is no such thing as 'DCC Wiring'. There is only 'wiring live frog turnouts correctly' and 'wiring live frog turnouts incorrectly'. The method described in this video is the 'incorrect way' because it will suffer shorts in the area of the switch blades. The correct way (which avoids all shorts) is to electrically bond the switch blades to their corresponding stock rails, create isolation breaks in the closure rails so that the crossing is completely isolated and feed the crossing through a switch - this is the way all hand-built track has been built since two-rail was first invented - it is done that way for a reason!
@@BaggiesTMD It is indeed the way Peco advise how to wire. Their advice dates from the 1970's, long before DCC was even thought of ie before we started applying high currents. But it is not correct. There are two problems: 1) The switching of current to the crossing is entirely reliant on the contact between the switch blades and stock rails. Unlike earlier Peco turnouts, there are no tabs tucking under the stock rail to make contact. This means that the connection is very prone to failure due to dirt. This wiring method also prevents you from painting rails. This is a topic that you will find all clubs and fora discussing as it is a very wide-spread problem. You are just lucky for the moment because eventually, it fails. 2) The 'Peco way' is the 'minimalist with no switch way' and creates the scenario where an open switch blade is at the opposite polarity to its neighbouring stock rail. It only needs one under-gauge wheelset or an extra-wide wheel tread to bridge that gap and you have a short and your layout stops. Hornby wheelsets prior to 2010 were often under-gauge. I have lost count of the number of times I saw shorts on club layouts because of this - Hornby A4's were particularly proned! The correct way to wire live frog turnouts is the way hand built track is done, but it does involve a switch attached to a point motor. It is 100% reliable and avoids all shorts. It lasts indefinitely and you can paint the sides of your rails. Your way does work *for you* *for the moment*, but it isn't reliable and you will find lots of commentary on fora about it not working for many. Do a search in Google for 'mrol live frog wiring'. I wrote an article for Model Railways Online which covers all of this.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. My stupid question of the day is. Will this work using shinohara track that hasn't been modified to so-called DCC-friendly?
Yeah DCC is two wires, and DC is two wires also. Tell us something we don't already know, like which brand of turnout you're showing and discussing in your video. That would actually be useful to know.
At last, someone who simplifies points wiring so a oldie simpleton like me who is a newbie to the hobby as I am, can understand (ish). Thank you. (Have to do something now I don’t go up the Baggies!)
Cheers for that mate this is how I got taught to wire DCC points nice and simple and works every time
You wiring instruction was a god send, saved me so much time. Baggies for EPL 23/24
Cheers Eddie, this is how I've always wired my points and track and never had any problems
This helped me alot on my subdivision, thank you !!
No question. But a thanks ! 💫
No worries
Hi thank you for the video, was having problems with SHORTS on the track points this was a god send now works great,thank you Brian
Glad it wa useful for you mate
Great video, some really useful information there 👌🏼
Cheers mate,
thanks, this has really helped me
Hi... great video... I have built a TT120 layout with Hornby insulfrog points. I have had a few shorting problems with them... would you recommend the same wiring and use of insulating joiners to stop this happening. Cheers. Greg
Hello. Very good explanation. Even so, I have a doubt: In the last example, I think it's not neccessary to isolate both tails ends os the turnouts? Why did you isolate them?
I isolate them as these are electrofrog points and the triangle of track that's isolated can be either positive or negative depending on which way the points are set. Without isolating them we would get a short
@@BaggiesTMD I mean the positive left bottom join and the negative upper right join don't need to be isolated, since he two frogs are isolated. The left bottom positive will be allways positive and the upper right negative will be allways negative, so they do not need to be isolated. Is this correct? I've been doing this way and everything's been working fine.
How do you wire a reverse turnout? Like a reverse switchback where the point lets the locomotive/train come out switched around
You can buy specific reverse loopers which are wired into the track work as advised on there instructions
@@BaggiesTMD so basically a little box that will switch polarity when it detects a possible short when the locomotive crosses the isolator?
Also do I need to make a programming track for my layout?
I am still in the planning stages and still researching DCC. Its just gonna be a layout that will maybe have 2 trains at once and not too large since the room I have to build it in is only 10.5ftx14ft
I assume if we solder the sections, we don't need as many wires? Thanks.
Thank you.
Okay I have got that.
So if I am using a slide switch to operate the points via a push rod, do I wire the 3 pin switch the same as DC when using electrofrog points?
Ie...middle pin goes to frog and the the other two pins to pos and neg on the track?
What if you don’t add plastics rail joiners. What would happen
You'd get constant shorts
I know the Baggies but what does TMD stand for?
Traction maintenance depot, all my layouts are named after Midlands football teams
This is very helpful thank you
Glad it was a help, don't forget to hit that sub button
Quote "DCC is two wires" Unquote. Oh dear, my TCC analogue system needs only ONE wire to all track sections and accessories, so uses roughly 60% of the wire needed for a DCC layout. But my TCC system does a lot more than even that, because it uses 12v DC in the rails. Direct Current (DC) has advantages over Alternating Current (AC) as you can run multiple circuits through one rail if necessary, from a host of transformer supplies, without fear of short circuits, or interference, which is NOT possible with AC.
So I can have the train power supply; Track Circuit supply; Relay supply; Signal LED supply, and a dozen other power supplies each from a separate transformer (which avoids interference) and all can be run through one rail simultaneously without fear of short circuits.
You see Direct Current will only return to the transformer it came from, no matter how many transformers are needed for all the various supplies. The only exception are my powerful motor driven point motors (Fulgurex) which require the polarity to be reversed in the wires to reverse the point. So these do need their own two wires under the baseboard for each point or crossover. Fulgurex (Switzerland) being the only mechanisms I have found that can deal with my scratchbuilt pointwork reliably.
TCC also allows the real life interlocking between Track Circuits, points, signals and trains, and the trains AWS system. And all you need are a few relays and track circuits to make it all work. So exactly like the real railway it is virtually impossible to crash two trains, and will even stop your train if you try passing a red signal, thanks to the inclusion of AWS (Automatic Warning System) as found in the cab of every locomotive !
Maybe I should add, that I am a Railway Mechanical Engineer, so I have a very good idea of how to miniaturise real railway operation and signalling precisely to make model railways operation more precise and more enjoyable to operate. Indeed my operators never seem to get bored, even at week long German mega exhibitions.
Happy modelling guys & gals !!!
What is this dark magic you speak of?
Change the title to "wiring turnouts" for DCC. I was looking for a simple diagram of DCC bus wiring.
INTERLOCKING SIGNALS WITH THE POINTS
If this is for an EXHIBITION layout, (rather than a Toy train set) how have you built in your interlocking, TO THIS POINT. So as to ensure that Signals can only be "CLEARED" when the point is set for the route the signal is on ???
To be fair this layout has been ripped up, when I fit my signals and points I'll manually change the signals and points separately. I know this isn't true to real life but trying to work out interlocking is not my fortay and when I do run a layout like this I've never had any issues really apart from the odd SPAD that happens in real life to
HI, im new to all this - is your video specifically for Electrofrog points?
Same principle works on normal points to
Need some coloured pens :)
But still great information
That is true did think that after I did it
Exactly what I was thinking. Or even a tick for a conductive fishplate, and a circle for insulator. I've done the latter, as I've followed along this video to make my own copy of the diagram!
What happens if you don't add the insulated gaps. I'm sure you are talking like plastic gap in the crossover. I'm struggling to get a crossover wired
You'll most likely get a short as the frog needs to change polarity depending on which was its switched
Hi. I like your show, I want to know I can wiring the turnout tracks of ATLAS with DCC System. Thank you
Cheers mate not to sure on that one I've mainly wired up UK systems but I would imagine the principle is the same
@@BaggiesTMD Thank you for your support to my request.
Just be aware that there is no such thing as 'DCC Wiring'. There is only 'wiring live frog turnouts correctly' and 'wiring live frog turnouts incorrectly'.
The method described in this video is the 'incorrect way' because it will suffer shorts in the area of the switch blades.
The correct way (which avoids all shorts) is to electrically bond the switch blades to their corresponding stock rails, create isolation breaks in the closure rails so that the crossing is completely isolated and feed the crossing through a switch - this is the way all hand-built track has been built since two-rail was first invented - it is done that way for a reason!
Never had a short on any of my points wiring like this and this is how peco also tell you how to wire up there electrofrog points
@@BaggiesTMD It is indeed the way Peco advise how to wire. Their advice dates from the 1970's, long before DCC was even thought of ie before we started applying high currents. But it is not correct. There are two problems:
1) The switching of current to the crossing is entirely reliant on the contact between the switch blades and stock rails. Unlike earlier Peco turnouts, there are no tabs tucking under the stock rail to make contact. This means that the connection is very prone to failure due to dirt. This wiring method also prevents you from painting rails. This is a topic that you will find all clubs and fora discussing as it is a very wide-spread problem. You are just lucky for the moment because eventually, it fails.
2) The 'Peco way' is the 'minimalist with no switch way' and creates the scenario where an open switch blade is at the opposite polarity to its neighbouring stock rail. It only needs one under-gauge wheelset or an extra-wide wheel tread to bridge that gap and you have a short and your layout stops. Hornby wheelsets prior to 2010 were often under-gauge. I have lost count of the number of times I saw shorts on club layouts because of this - Hornby A4's were particularly proned!
The correct way to wire live frog turnouts is the way hand built track is done, but it does involve a switch attached to a point motor. It is 100% reliable and avoids all shorts. It lasts indefinitely and you can paint the sides of your rails.
Your way does work *for you* *for the moment*, but it isn't reliable and you will find lots of commentary on fora about it not working for many.
Do a search in Google for 'mrol live frog wiring'. I wrote an article for Model Railways Online which covers all of this.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. My stupid question of the day is. Will this work using shinohara track that hasn't been modified to so-called DCC-friendly?
I've never come across that track brand before unfortunately
Thank you. You confuse the words 'track' and 'rail', which are not the same thing. Track is the composite of two rails and their sleepers.
Yeah I generalised a bit as people know track as rails and rails as track
bollox Rick
@@TheNorthwestWind Always good to have an insightful and intelligent explanation.
Exactly how I wire my track everything gets a feed of power
Always found it the best way
@Amari Trey dude u bots are so annoying
Yeah DCC is two wires, and DC is two wires also. Tell us something we don't already know, like which brand of turnout you're showing and discussing in your video. That would actually be useful to know.
It's only recently I've discovered I quite like baked beans
@@BaggiesTMDI can gladly say I don’t like baked beans. What is your favorite part about them?
All points, track and point motors are peco branded