Are Carbon fibre string instruments good enough for professional use?
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This time I will try to answer the question if carbon fibre instruments are good enough for the professional use in orchestras, chambre music etc.
Sorry, I had a wrong price of the Luis & Clark viola in my head. In reality it is a little less than 6000$ US plus tax, shipping and coustoms...
Great to hear a musician without prejudice!
I know this video is 2 years old, but I wanted to say thank you for making this video. I am new to playing a violin and I have really wanted to save for a nice instrument. I've always been told that if I went with a carbon fiber instrument it won't sound as nice. I'm so glad to know that is not entirely correct. Thank you again!
I've played a Luis and Clark Violin for about 10 years. I've NEVER regretted my decision and everyone who has heard it thought it sounded great. The form factor, finish, and weight discussed in this video are absolutely true. It sounds great and comes well adjusted to your door (mine was shipped from Boston to Chicago). On that note, it does EXTREMELY well traveling considering the material is much stronger and more resistant to damage than the typical wood used in instrument construction. I've also played the viola and the cello L&C makes and they are just the same.
I don't know about L&C today, but when I tried one about 16 years ago it sounded really bad. I love everything made of carbon fibre, love my Arcus carbon bow, but gave up on CF Violins. I still dream of one day getting a CF Violin, at least as a secondary instrument.
I'm a semipro folk musician (but classically trained), playing Scottish, Irish, English and other music. I've had a Luis & Clark carbon violin for several years. It has become my main instrument, for the reasons given here - it gives a big strong even responsive sound for little effort, it's dead reliable in any weather (even in full summer sun, unlike my wooden violins), it's fun to play and hard to break. Unusually for a violin, the D string is perhaps the best sounding on mine.
Hello! I bought a L&C viola about 5 years ago and love it. I’m shocked that more people in the area I live aren’t using these. I have also received comments like, “ how can you play on that plastic piece of s**t?!” To me it’s a no brainer-versatility, great sound, easy to play, cheap on insurance, and virtually indestructible. As a full time middle school orchestra teacher, I never have to worry about my instrument getting damaged. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for your comment!
Meanwhile I am only playing my L & C, it got better and better over the years!
And after I had an accident in the opera pit a few weeks ago and fell upon my viola and it didn’t even had one single scratch I really worship the durability of that instrument!❤️
@@solobratscherviola7335 ugh. So sorry. By the way, we lived in Kaiserslautern for 3 years while my wife was in the Air Force. I think Mainz is the capital of the Rheinland-Pfalz?
It's so nice to hear someone who has something nuanced to say on the subject. This is the only video I've seen so far which isn't either "they're all horrible" or, as you mentioned that one manufacturer saying "it's better than a strad" Being able to hear from someone who has a real opinion based on real experience is amazing. Thank you so much. Subscribed.
I was lucky enough to go to Luis' home in Boston area several years ago and try about 12 of his cellos. He and his wife are amazing people and these instruments are incredible. Don't forget YoYo Ma owns one.
Als jemand, der nur als Hobby Cello spielt, kann ich das Meiste nur bestätigen.
Das Mezzoforte-Cello habe ich mal bei einer Musikmesse ausprobiert und fand es eher enttäuschend.
Da ich aber Klangproben des Luis and Clark beeindruckend fand, bin ich dann vor knapp zwei Jahren das Risiko eingegangen und habe bei L&C ein 5-saitiges Cello online bestellt. Für die sechste Suite reicht es bei mir zwar (noch) nicht, aber im Moment vergnüge ich mich mit Bachs Gambensonate g-Moll, da ist ein 5-Saiter auch von Vorteil.
Am Anfang war ich zwar etwas schockiert von der Resonanz dieses Instrumentes und in der Einspielzeit hat es auch etwas scharf geklungen, zudem waren die 5 Saiten erst einmal eine ziemliche Herausforderung für mich.
Aber nach der Eingewöhnungsphase hab ich es nie bereut, es hat einen wirklich grandiosen Klang und eine wunderbare Resonanz und was auch ganz wichtig ist: gegenüber meinem 4-Saiter, der ebenfalls sehr schön klingt (Mittenwald ca. 1860), habe ich mit dem L&C Cello überhaupt keine jahreszeitlichen Probleme.
i have the L&C violin and I absolutely adore it. I play fiddle outdoors and festivals in all sorts of weather, and the L&C saves my sanity!
So, they are much sturdier? I am so paranoid about hurting my wooden violin!
@@Helz777 they buy the cellos for the Middle School orchestras because, when kids step on them, they don't crush :-) I hope this will give you an idea of how sturdy they are! Look for carbon fiber violin on Fiddlershop, for example.
I would love to have a good carbon fiber viola, but it's definitely out of my price range right now, so I will have to settle for my wooden instrument.
Maestro, thank you for your sincere and unbiased review of this Luis and Clark Viola. It sounds wonderful, and of course, much of that is your playing of it. If carbon fiber instruments become less expensive I would like to try one also.
I'm an adult learner, not a professional by any means. But as a learner, I love my carbon fiber violin, purely because it seems easier to keep in tune. Like you said, it's immune to changes in temperature and humidity, and playing outside I don't have anxiety if a cloud goes by. It also seems less prone to peg slip. Very interesting to hear your opinion as an open minded professional!
While I love the romance of traditional string instruments - there does seem to be an increasing role for carbon.
With cellos, there is a chronic shortage of good affordable instruments for students and orchestral players. The L&C was developed by a cellist, and as the Yo-Yo Ma endorsement suggests it is a more than capable instrument which can help fill the gap.
Traditional violas have the issue of being acoustically smaller than the ideal compared to the original da braccio models. This means that they are often muted, and so heavy and awkward to play that many players suffer significant injuries. The L&C seems to generate more power for an equivalent size, and is lighter and safer to play.
For fiddles I'm rather less convinced by the sound of current offerings, though I guess if you do a lot of outside gigging or live in an extreme climate they could be a godsend...
Interesting that the Mezzo Forte people seemed closed to professional feedback - it may help explain why most people seem to prefer the L&C instruments.
That is a gorgeous instrument and it sounds amazing! The only part I do not care for is the shape of the "scroll" however that is just my personal preference. Wounderful!
Excellent! Hopefully, they will progress with these technologies and save the rare woods of the forests!
Carbon Fiber is beautiful in its own way, and that instrument does sound very nice.
Magic playing thanks. The honest personality adds to the playing for sure.
I own L&C viola too. I'm tired of bad prejudices about my black viola. So I changed body color to wood ones. Someone loves the sound with no prejudice as I do. but almost all people said why you play plastic viola instead of wooden one.
I’m thinking of making a violin with a new flax based sustainable form of CF called ApliTex and bioepoxies as well as a few other engineered wood products. Your video was very interesting to me.
I don't know how this got on my feed, but you deserve a thumbs up, so I did!
You are a great performing artist GaryKaasa
Two thumbs up! Thanks for the info on carbon fiber instruments & Luis & Clark. Cheers!
I'm a violinist. I wish I had the carbon fiber violin. It would sound amazing. I first hear about this violin from Taylor Davis "Avengers" cover
homemade prepreg, buy materials then made it
I had the same reaction from my mother! She thought it was plastic!! But the first to create a carbon fiber instrument was from a Boston symphony cellist Luis Leguia who was a boat enthusiast and created a fiber glass cello until a friend of his suggested carbon fiber- the rest is history. He now has a company makes and sells bowed stringed instruments of carbon fiber. Now there are a number of knock offs that are in violation of his patent.
Theres nothing new in tradition. Nothing stays the same "thats evolution and revolution and refinement and fusion of a new art evolves.
Amazing! I guess it’s easier to control the quality than woodworking. With maturing technology, the mass production will make it cheap.
My ancestors played Balalaika and Domra, it’s good enough for me.
it has a fine voice in your hands. I don't particularly like carbon fiber guitars but I think violas and cellos are a good use for the material.
Thank you for the report. Sounds nice and looks like an easy playing instrument. I am not quite sure if the C gives much strenght.
As you tried also many carbonfiber bows I would like to see also a video about it.
Thank you for this review. I’m considering a Luis & Clark viola, so this is very helpful. One question: is yours the smaller of the two L&C viola models? I think the smaller model is relatively new and I can’t find much specifically about that one.
Carbon fiber is superior for the violin. Wood is now a dead end. Cleaner tones approaching sterile. Consistent harmony over almost the whole register. Much simpler maintenance. The self-resonance can be put anywhere you want because of the stiffness of the material.
Would be great if you could review a Glasser Carbon Composite 5-String Viola or similar for a future video. 🎻
I am in a mid sized regional orchestra (violist) .....I just incorparated my 5 string glasser at our most recent outdoor concert. It held up beautifully outdoors . I think it truly depends on the setting and the musican. I love the durablity and the sound resonance .
Luis and Clark makes 5 string cellos and violas now as well
It does has overtones at the lower notes but they seem different from wood. I would be curious a luthier playing with the setup can get a range of tones from it or not. I have seen a luthier demonstrating the setup of an violin they made and how changing hardware or sound post position changes the sound to an ideal setup.
thhe sound is beautiful!
Your instrument sounds fantastic to me. Not sure if it's the microphone or your room acoustics, but it seemed to me that it projects very loudly indeed, and that the common complaint of CF instruments does not apply to this. It seems very much s loud enough, and has a quality tone. Just like us Guitar people, I'm not surprised that there remains a huge school of wood snobbery and antediluvian views on modern instrument design. The only good sounding instruments must be made with the blood of unicorns, and the wood of the true cross.
Thank you for the review
I always presume in the future it's gonna be carbon fiber and wood these two materials cooperate together to make a violin. Mostly the acoustic part (soundbox, bridge...etc) still leave to wood, and the joint where endure most tension or compression leaves to carbon fibers (neck joint, neck nuts...etc)
I replaced the wood bridge on my wood violin with a carbon fiber bridge from Glasser (on my not-Glasser violin). It sounds and acts about the same, but I did notice the slight bend towards the fingerboard that all wooden bridges eventually get as they age are completely absent from the CF bridge.
@@langhamp8912 Tilting your wooden bridge slightly backward from the fingerboard's direction could prevent deforming, I do that all the time for bridge could live longer than holding just up-straight.
@@teentheblue3644 I think the deformation comes from string stretch and then tightening the pegs. The bridge tilts ever so slightly, but given enough time a considerable bend forms.
Interestingly, just wetting a wood bridge, then placing a wet towel, and then ironing will pop that bridge straight again. I have done that, but I've also heard that the steam iron method is how dents in wood instruments are taken out.
@@langhamp8912 Interestingly I have used the steam method before to correct the violin bridge and erhu rod. But they tend to crook again in a short time, which suggest replacing might be the best.
And for me suggesting tilting violin bridge backward could help sustaining its lifespans sometimes don't help, pretty mysterious as I would simply suggest my client to either use a harder wood for bridge or constantly loosen the string if not playing so often.
Thank you! I’m going to get one!!!
The sound of a volin depends on the violinist .
Looks like you got the same combo strings that I use Spirocore C, Evah Pirazzi green G and D and I presume a Larsen A ;)
Do you have advice on getting the shoulder rest (of any sort) to stay in place as you play? The feet of my shoulder rests slide along the carbon fiber much more so than on a wood finish.
Hi
I just gave a lovely acoustic Glasser carbon fibre violin to my friend last night. For some reason the violin didn't make any musical sound, there is just a scraping or scratching sound. My friend already plays a violin and understands how to tune it and how to apply rosin to the bow.
We all love the look and feel of the violin and have watched plenty of beautiful videos but are completely stumped as to what is happening.
My friend will be trying to figure it out today and as well try a different bow.
What could we possibly be doing wrong?
Great review. Thank you.
And it can be used as a paddle in a cano!
The bridge is of wood, correct? Not a synthetic composite material? And it is fitted the same masterful way?
It appears that whether or not one goes to CF instrument (deterrent may be adding another instrument with a price tag) at least look into a CF bow - am I surmising well? Thank you for a good explanation with background of your journey.
At bottom, musical instruments are technology, and it's natural that they advance as technology advances. Given the weight and difficulty of playing a viola, I would buy only a CF viola if I were to play one.
Nice! Thank you
Excellent
Good review!
I've always wondered why a violin or viola doesn't have geared tuners ?
Maybe the added weight?
I see, that your instrument has a delicate piano too! Can you please tell me the name of firm that made your instrument?
It is a Luis & Clark from the US
Thanks for the explanation of everything. You were really precise and you covered each and every doubt I had, except for one but regarding another topic.
Im sure that you have tried carbon fiber bows. What can you saw about them? Specifically from the brand Arcus and Müsing. They claim that their bows are exceptional, its this true?
Carbon fibre bows are really a thing, and I think much more accepted than carbon fiber instruments. But I have never tried a good carbon fiber bow. It would be great to have a really good bow and that lasts "for ever" , we all know how delicate wooden bows are.
I have tried a 100 dollar carbon fibre bow and compared to a 500 dollar wooden bow, it responded roughly the same... And I have also tried a Arcus A4 ( now discontinued, but costed like 1100 € ) and it was not that great. Now I´m using a 2000 dollar wooden bow that I really like, but im really afraid of it accidentally falling and breaking. It already happened me once (with a cheaper bow) the tip come off, and I got it fixed with the archetier, but it was never the same...
Thank you again,
There’s also a brand from USA called Codabow. Their most expensive bow it’s in the same price range of the cheapest Arcus bows. Do you know it?
Bravo, very nice deep but clear sound. What bow are you using? An old or modern pernambuco wood or carbon fiber?
Carbon fibre from italy
I wish I knew how it is that Luis & Clark made a pro-grade CF instrument while others did not. Tiny refinements? Different kind of CF? Any idea?
I think the fabricants simply prefer to work with materials they know : wood. I also think that since carbon fiber is not cheap, I could think that many fabricants wouldn't want to "waste" money on something that may not work out.
I think the reason might be that the founder of Luis and Clark started his business with help from a boatmaker who professionally sourced materials for and made carbon fiber and graphite boat chassis. He may have had a head start with r and d for form factors, production techniques and the like to streamline the production and research process to tweak the design. Leguia (the founder) also was a career cellist with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. He had the street cred in the business and the connections to get other people besides just himself (though he is completely qualified) to listen to and play the prototypes to develop the design.
Because making good instruments requires the luthier, whether traditionalist or modernist, to approach the craft with humility and honesty. You have to know what a violin (or viola, cello etc) IS before you can make one that approaches the best traditional quality.
I am just an amateur who plays with new materials and tries to do things with them, but this is what I have learned.
New materials allow to you experiment with different forms such as thinner sound boards and resonant shapes, but it's humility and honesty that allows you to accept criticism and outright failure and learn from it.
Are the chin rest tail piece and pegs, carbon?
What is the piece in the beginning?
What do the upper registers sound like?
How come the bridge is not made of carbon fiber?
Beautiful instrument. How would you say it compares with Mezzo Forte’s cf viola?
Well, as I said in the video, I was never really happy with the instruments from Mezzoforte.
In my ears they are not good enough for professional use...
The instruments from Luis & Clark play in a completely different league!
Wonder how much does it weigh
Question: Which size is that, 16 3/8” or 15.25”. Thank you, beautiful instrument!
Also, which carbon fiber bow do you prefer with this viola? Thank you!
what carbon fiber bow do you currently use?
let's hear the sound, should we？
what are your thoughts on Glasser carbon composite violas
Why dont you compare the instruments side by side? May be it is the tone quality of the video but I am missing overtones.
The carbon fiber violin would actually have a more complete range of overtones, having no inconsistencies in the material to create deadness in the frequency range.
Good player, but sorry,, not close- and no cigar. And $6,000? With the right blueprints and software it probably can be mass produced at a fraction of the price.
meh, you can get a professional violin for half the price with sound in a totally different dimension. If you play violin seriously, having to tune your instrument relatively often is a very small price to pay
what size viola?
they all laughed at my elec violin 30 years ago😂😂😂😂
What song are you playing? Thanks in advance.
It´s the beginning of the elegy of russian composer Alexander Glazunow
@@viotech4545 Beautiful piece of music, wonderfully played!
Why does it need to sound like a wooden instrument ? ,
This instrument doesn’t sound as clear and clean as wooden ones.
it's no warm sound in a carbon-fiber instrument
I do not agree, we made several tests together with wooden instruments in double blind mode and noone in the jury said, that it wasn‘t warm.
For my opinion this is a prejudice!
звук ужасный
plastic propaganda :(
I would prefer all Natural wood violin therefore Carbon fiber to me isn't worth that much.
Your mind appears to have been made up before viewing this video. So why bother watching it, much less commenting? Especially since you didn't address any of the particulars discussed here.
Well , i guess i am old fashion then...Just saying i would not invest in a carbon for learn violin. Yes. my mind was made up when i seen your tile.
I play bassoon and am interested in this new material, carbon fiber. I've been thinking of buying a plastic bassoon for outdoor use, but if you can have an instrument as good (or better) as 2nd instrument for outdoor use, why not give it a try?
Very interesting video, good information. I completely understand why these instruments are gaining popularity but for myself they do lack tonal character, and that dynamic detail that wood provides but that is just my opinion. I would love to have one for it's durability.