Can a mppt Controller work Without a Battery?
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2023
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Disclaimer: although this can work as as no battery solar system it is recommended that this unit is connected correctly as per manufacture specifications. Risk of fire or damage may result if incorrectly used.
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Do you really need a battery?
Using a Victron mppt charge controller to run loads directly from solar without a battery.
How much power can we get?
Does the Victron connect at still work
And do I recommend this over a dc to dc converter
Simple diy power systems
No Battery solar system
Cheap solar set up
Solar energy
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This video is for entertainment purpose only. Mppt charge controllers are not intended to be used without a battery. Any damages done your mppt equipment is on you guys. And is at your own risk. 😁👍
Very, very useful information. Can't know too much!
Glad it was helpful mate 👍
Never would have considered doing it that way - that's pretty creative and has lots of potential for some side projects. Like/Subscribed - keep it up!
Thanks mate. Welcome to the channel ❤️
thank you , you say LOAD 128W + @5:41 what do you think is the max ? i just found out that the victron has StreetLight function , do you think it will also cut of the power of the LOAD connection ?
Nice. Charge controllers have a tendency of frying if you apply power without a battery though. I've fried little 18650 charger modules that way, and seen other youtubers fry solar charge controllers that way. So I always attach a battery first now.
Thanks for that mate 👍
Well. It will sorta work but you are risking over-volting the outputs (PWM or MPPT) if you are pushing a lot of watts and the load suddenly goes away. It will work at low wattages because the capacitors in the devices will buffer the output. But at high wattages things can get a bit dangerous without the battery there providing a low-impedance sink. The PWM's output stage, in particular, is just an inductor and a capacitor. If the load disappears while it is pushing a lot of current, the inductor can cause the output voltage to shoot up.
So even though it works, and I gotta give you credit for doing something this crazy(!)... even though it works, I wouldn't do this beyond just messing around.
There are three other issues.
The first is that MPPT controllers do a voltage sweep of the solar input every once in a while and potentially drop the output voltage while doing the sweep (the Victron does this every 10 minutes but only if the solar generation is insufficient to maintain the output voltage. Since you don't have a battery, the solar generation will typically be sufficient).
The second issue is that the PWM or MPPT controller has to power itself reliably, and usually the reliable power is the battery connected to the output. Most charge controllers can power themselves from either the solar input or the battery output. But if the panel drops production (say, a cloud get in the way), and you have no battery, it might cause the charge controller to hicup or reset or do something unexpected.
The third is that without a battery you are basically throwing away most of the extra generation the solar panel could be sending you. Its kinda nice to be able to store that generation... in a battery. It doesn't have to be a big battery after all. A little 10Ah or 20Ah LiFePO4 battery is great for low power delivery applications like this one. Just keep in mind the amperage limitations for small batteries (program the Victron's amperage limit accordingly).
-Matt
Awesome info Matt. Very informative mate. So just a basic dc to dc converter would be more suited for a no battery solar array by the sounds.
As I understand it with my cheap pwm controller (that I use on my car battery), you need to connect to the battery first or you risk blowing the charge controller up. This explantion helps. I was wondering if MPPT controllers are more special, but I guess not that much, at least not in this way. With the battery pack charging, he is connected to a battery, but he is plugged into load rather than battery, so it is not powering the MPPT. (I would have liked to see how that was hooked up-didn't show in the video. 12 volt cigarette plug like the hot pot?) I think a battery acts more as a energy sponge to even out energy, because it has resistance as it sucks energy in, so safer, evener, watts, rather. Batteries are nice, but nowadays used solar panels are "cheaper than plywood", so this kind of thing is tempting. The DC to DC converter is also probably much cheaper than the Victron MPPT. Even Will Prowse powered a few things with a DC to DC converter in a video once. It not something you keep connected when you are not using it.
That mppt in the video does not have a battery connected . It’s just solar and the load. I agree a dc to dc converter is the cheaper option just to plug in and run some 12volt stuff. Keep it simple. Thanks for your comment mate
@@Techboxreview Yah, a DC-to-DC converter works quite well with direct solar inputs. It won't be as efficient as a charge controller, but the DC-to-DC converter will have a much more stable output.
and that is why I always use a small battery to stabilise everything.
very interesting. Thanks from Brazil
Thanks for watching mate
Cool. Iv done a lot of work in this area, and yea, that's the first controller iv seen that will work without a battery. Typically, it does not.
Yeah mate I was surprised also. It worked great. with the app working and tracking the data also 😁 thanks for tuning in
Yeah, my thoughts that come to mind from when I played with lasted were using cheaper DC-DC converters in series and parallel to get more voltage input capabilities or whatever the voltage in parallel more current input processed and output capabilities. If being series and using, most likely adding some additional fault protection circuitry and buffer DC-DC converters so when one or two failed, the continuous load would still be maintained and I'd have time to hot swap in or go offline to install new DC-DC converters. Then study what failed in the DC-DC converter if not a potted hot mess, so to improve on the cheap ones design with better quality parts. Seems in regards to the battery, even old crappy ones are better than none was my thought.
Interesting thought having two that you can swap and change depending on usage. I might have to test this 😁👌 from what I hear those dc to dc converters are really reliable. You should get many years from them if treated right. They also have 13.8volt output ones available
Thanks for video ! very useful.
Thanks for watching mate
I don’t believe all MPPT charge controllers will work like this but good to know the victron will
I have an epever tracker also. I could test that out. Cheers for watching
SOME controllers require that a battery be connected first to supply power to the electronics in the controller. That allows the electronics to set the internal parameters for the correct output once the panels are connected to the input. This type controller MAY blow up because of poor internal design without safeguards to prevent damage. A desirable controller is one that can default to a given output condition (12V?) regardless of load and that will power up the internals from a panel and then correctly power the load.
Thanks for the comment mate. I will be using this controller with a battery. I thought it was interesting that it works without a battery though. 👌
dont know if lesser units would work like this... the victron kept radio. lights.. fans on ... worker had left batteery diconnected... amazing...
Yeah mate it’s pretty cool I reckon. Very handy to know incase you were without a battery for some days. It would be interesting to see if it was just a Victron thing or other brands also have the same capability. I may have to test this theory in another video someday.
i always forget and unplug panel before switch off battery and i didnt fry my 5 bucks cheap charger . so i guess it can withstand the 35v of a big panel .. more easily if its 48v one.. the cheap was 24 and i charge lithium with not even change parameters... but i always act manually and never leave it permenant.. ,,,,weeeeeellll some times i forget converter on and let bms rest after shock!!!!
The 75/15 can handle 75V at the panel input and 15A at the output. There are charging curves for lead batteries and lithium batteries.
Thank you for the video ! i got a question , i have a anker powerhouse 757 with a problem . . the charge controller on this device is crap from factory not fixable !! .. when there is not enough power coming in the evening the anker powerhouse will make a clicking sound , and after a couple minutes the anker powerhouse turns off , the DC output for the cool box is turned off and all my food is ruined . . now the question : if i put this decive between the solarpannel and anker powerhouse 757 do you think it will be fixt ? will it turn off the power to the anker powerhouse in the evening ? ( i have to do this manually in the evening with a killswitch ) sometimes i'm to late because i was on a hiking trail ... thank you for the advice if you have time ^^
Hi mate. How many watts are you solar panels? And what state of charge is your anker in the evening before it cuts out?
@@Techboxreview i have renogy 175 watt , , barley charging because of no sun , it will not cut off the power with to low voltage i think the device don't know what to do and go tilt mode and turns completely off ( car socket )
email from anker: Thank you for your patience and waiting.
We just received feedback from engineers about your issue.
In fact, the situation you encountered involves the design of the powerhouse. We are very sorry that the replacement may not be able to solve this issue.
When the powerhouse encounters an abnormal input (solar input voltage instability, mains power instability, power failure within a few seconds), it will automatically shut down and turn off all outputs. In this case, you need to press BUTTON again to charge the device.
Therefore, we are very sorry that you may need to press the button of the powerhouse in time at night so that the powerhouse can continue to supply power to your equipment.
Interesting. My thoughts. (Without looking at the unit) is that you are not getting enough solar into the unit to keep your anker powered after son down. What size cool box are you running? Did your unit come with a car charger or wall socket power charger? Try charging it that way and top up the battery to 100% then see how it proforms?
@@Techboxreview anker powerhouse is is almost fully charged , when it gets dark the problem begins , when i cut off the solar power before dark everything stay on , the solar charge controller on the anker powerhouse is the problem. . . they put things on the market and not fully tested i think. . . ( the rest everything is ok with this device ) i need something that turns off the power from the solar before it gets dark
Could you run an immersion heater for a hot water tank off a scaled up version of this system
I’m not 100% sure mate
important details if you don't mind ...what was the wats or amps / volts coming in to your charger? Thanks
Around 32volts the panels
Put out around 300watt now
Many people make that mistake.
Buy a 75/15 and only get max 180 watts with a 12V system. That's only enough for a small PV module.
A 100/20 can handle 20A and a 150/35 can handle 35A
Thanks for your comment mate 👍
100/20 still has internal load port which can come in very handy
Thanks for this interesting video! Just got a boat and bought some solar panels and a Victron 75/15. Now I know that it's even working without a battery.
One question: 2:55 how did you do that color change around the like section. Never seen this before :)
It’s good to know that you can use those Victron controllers without a battery. But they do recommend using them with a battery though. That’s a new feature for you tube if you say like and subscribe on the video than it will automatically colour change the like and sub button 😁 pretty cool
@@Techboxreview Thanks for your answer. I will use my Victron with a battery but now I now I can test it before installing it my boat.
Haha nice feature from CZcams. I'll say it in my next vlog :)
I wonder if you could connect an inverter to the load side??
I think it should be able to work. With a smaller inverter. I might do a test and see 👍
You're restricted to 220 watts when operating in 12-volt mode. However, by utilizing that controller, you can achieve 440 watts in 24-volt mode. I suggest employing the DC-DC converter and utilizing the 24-volt output to double the power output. Additionally, employing capacitance in the converter will provide advantages with transient loads. On the load output you might get as much as 400w if you can set the voltage areound 28v +.
Thanks mate. I appreciate the comment. I will most likely use this controller for 24volt down the track when I get myself a 24volt batteries
you can connect your load on the battery port, too
it should work, and deliver more power.
the load is restricted to 10A, and your battery port should have 15A
credits: voltamperlux (german yt channel)
extra feature: you can connect both, the load AND battery to get the most of it without battery xD
Awesome. Thanks for sharing mate 👍
I want to see someone putting this together step by step or some kind of diagram. I have put a one battery set up myself, but I need the steps to be safe. Also, will it need a fuse? Thanks!
I was acually thinking last night about doing a step by step guide in setting up a small solar system. Good job in setting up your first solar system 👍it’s recommend to have a fuse on the battery and also on the solar input.
This will work as you have seen, but it might blow up. Not the recommended way to use it as it is a solar charge controller. If you want a DC/DC converter then by the Victron DC/DC converter.
Yeah I thinks so to mate. This video was a follow up from a comment ( asking why not use a mppt charge controller instead of a dc converter) I will still be using a dc converter. Thanks
Is the voltage regulated on the load output? For example, for 12v mode can you set lower and upper limits on the voltage from 11.25V to 12.75V, or other values?
That’s something I would have to check mate
I was hoping if u could show us if the app works only with the battary not any solar
The ap will work with only a battery connected. This video has an example of this working
FAST CHARGE my Kings 24ah PORTABLE power pack.
czcams.com/video/-hlBciEZPto/video.html
PV Power is ~5 cents/watt. Battery "eChem" kWh is 5 to 10 x this. $$$$ Do the math. This can be made to work within match to load. It's very good as a light pipe. Batteries S u c k and Always F A I L. Economical stored kWh requires that you take special care and narrow eChem operating limits. Some say Batteries don't fail , they are murdered. Now China will not sell Graphite to the West. CV/CC buck LED drivers work well for PV direct applications. Thanks for sharing
New and new old batteries soon, no need buy from china
What is the voltage output on the load?
The output voltage was a steady 14.19volts 🤙🏻
Can i plug a type c solar panel directly into a power bank if the solar panel doesn't exceed the specs of the power bank?
Hi mate. I have charger power banks with small usb solar panels. I think it should be fine
@@Techboxreview Thanks mate.
every mppt work without battery. if is sun power enough to load. a ppt controller don't now if the resistance on the output is a battery or a inverter or a motor
Thanks for your comment 👍
It's only a condition. The charge controller need to recognise a resistance with a it own voltage to start. Es,.a battery. But one time that the controller start, it's no difference is is a battery or not. The controller is a simple power supply with limited current and 2 or more limited voltage. Nothing magig. Also every battery charger is the same. Peapole call these things Smart. But the only Smart is the criteria to pass from a first limited voltage, to second limited voltage.
fun, ive seen mppt water heaters kinda the same no batteries and commercially available.
atleast 10 years ago i watched a guy use one of those buck booster things to power a small inverter to power his tv
It sure is fun. A mppt water heater sounds like a cool idea, I will have to have a look and see if I can get my hands on one 😝 thanks for tuning in
how did you connect the usb cable? Isn't 14V too much for Usb-A?
Hi mate. You would need a small dc converter to convert the 14v to 5volt usb A 🤙🏻 they can be found on Amazon and eBay for pretty cheap
What kind of solar panels to use with that kind of controller
They are second hand house panels. 34volt 250watt panels. The controller can handle up to 75volts 👍
And more broken chargers to lift prizes, battery is a must
Thanks for watching
Different question. I’ll be running batteries but want to delete alternator charging. Good or no?
Hi mate. What will you be running with your batteries
@@Techboxreview just Solar, I live in north west Australia and sunshine is guaranteed!
Yep Plenty of sunshine up there that’s for sure 😎☀️
Does this setup have any inverter hooked up?
Hi mate It’s not recommended to run an inverter on the output side of that controller. You will be better off running your inverter from a battery
Hey sir, what gauge wire are you using on that Mppt? Thanks
14 gauge from memory. I would recommend larger wire. This was only for the test
How many Panels or Watts of Solar did this Test Run On ?
Hi mate. I have 2x250watt panels connected in parallel (around 34volts) they are second hand panels and getting old now they still output around 320watts total now
Hi man, it's not really clear from the images how did you make the circuit! I saw you have also the dc buck connected? The splitting wires which goes into the controller are splited from the solar panel? Why you input to "load" and not to "battery"? Guess it works with input from the panel on both "pv" and "battery" and then from the "load" you can output for charging devices?
I just connected the solar panels to the solar input on the controller. Then ran the loads from the load side of the controller. The controller was acting like a dc converter.
@@Techboxreview thanx for reply! I just finish a solar setup with a 120w, 12v panel and a 12-24v, 20A controller! It works directlly without battery! Maybe I'll post a video because there is a small trick though ..
That would be great. I would be keen to see it work. Although I don’t think it is recommended using then without a battery. It’s handy to know they will work 😁
@@Techboxreview czcams.com/video/iwSm9ZbAr_Q/video.htmlsi=zoiGSi_CJ-do39_8
@@Techboxreview I tried to post here the clip but it doesn't work, how can I send to you, it's on yt, I'll make it public on my channel now
Let's see you try that with a resistive load connected first! More interesting is what happens when load exceeds what the panels produce. I find this video technically misleading. It convinces others to try what technically will never work in other applications like heating water. I turn buck converters into linear current boosters which will maintain the panel at power point in all sun conditions. I design PV water heating controls and connecting a MPPT controller to a heating element is lunacy. Nice presentation, just very misleading to the solar community which is extremely technically challenged.
This was a follow up video from another video where I was using a dc buck converter to run a 12volt kettle and other 12volt appliances. I received a comment saying I should have used a mppt charge controller instead of the buck converter. So I decided to try and find out if it would work. I would still recommend using a buck converter over the mppt. Thanks for watching
@@TechboxreviewI use a cheap controller straight into my 12 volt fridge which has a lithium battery.
@simonpepper9721 hi mate. Is it a brass monkey fridge? I hear they are good fridge
@@Techboxreview No, its a Companion. Outlived it's 3 year warranty,going strong.
@simonpepper9721 nice bro 💪
How could it not work? It simply would act as though the battery is full. Becomes the same scenario, if not please explain why?
Thanks for watching mate
Install in freezer 100wat DC
If the freezer is insulated enough. Then it could work 🤙🏻 thanks for watching
okay Dude, don't you think that the most important thing to run on solar power is the inverter?
and you completely left it out? unbelivable
I forgot. But it will run a small 12volt inverter no worries 👍
I do NOT recommend using an MPPT with our the battery!! you are not taking power spikes in the morning when your solar panels are cool into the count. Not a good idea at all.
Thanks for sharing
What gauge wire do you recommend with this Mppt for an 300 w panel 46v, and a 24v lifepo on the receiving end … will 14 gauge work if 3 feet in each direction
@zodaguado6655 14gauge copper wire should be fine for 24v