When Torchwood Showed Superpowers Are Bad
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2021
- Often overlooked and sometimes subject of controversy, does 'Greeks Bearing Gifts' actually serve an important role in Torchwood Series 1?
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#DoctorWho #Torchwood #Review - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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I NEED MORE CHANNEL POINTS FOR HIGHLIGHTED MESSAGES HARBO
@@orangepizzaparty688 Maybe. JUST MAYBE you should calm down. Juuuuussst a bit man
@@giovannicouture Maybe...
But highlighted messages are worth it so nah
When Toshiko was being held captive and Ianto's thoughts were "oh god, not again", that hurt
You can never lose a homing pigeon- if your homing pigeon doesn’t come back, what you’ve lost is a pigeon.
Brilliant
If only actual doctor who was able to do multiple character teams like this
Which is weird because it's the same showrunner, but consistently the thing I find myself disliking about Chibnall Who stories is the overcrowded main cast. How did his character writing degrade so heavily?
Exactly. After two series of torch wood, we become so attached to the team (not spoiling anything but you all know what happens) whereas after two series of doctor who with chibz, I barely remember nor cared for any of the companions, even the doctor
I think the issue is possibly that Chibnall is intentionally dumbing down his writing to account for the "family" audience. I don't think he trusts children to understand stories unless they are spoon-fed, and so he dumbs his writing down to account for what he sees as the key audience. I obviously don't know if this is actually true, but it would explain his massive over reliance on exposition and complete lack of subtext or external world-building.
The thing is that Davies and Moffat didn't do this and yet most of us are living proof that we understood their episodes enough to enjoy them. Davies episodes were practically swimming in subtext, and Moffat episodes explored a lot of high-concept ideas and had very intricate plotting. Kids aren't stupid, and a "family" show has to appeal to the parents and teenagers as much as the young kids - note that Peppa Pig is not a prime time show, despite being tremendously popular among young kids. I was 8 in 2005, and my younger brother was 5. Doctor Who, Robin Hood, Primeval, and Merlin were all shows that we watched while growing up, and all explored a lot of darker themes without alienating us. Even The Sarah Jane Adventures, which was explicitly for kids, explored darker themes in more depth and held your hand less than Chibnall's Who.
It's just a shame that Chibnall's writing on Who has been so disappointing, because it has massively marred and overshadowed Jodie Whittaker's time as The Doctor, and he has shown us he can do so much better with much of his work on Torchwood.
@@BambiTroutI think another issue is RussT made these characters, so he's not having to make them from scratch
@@BambiTrout YES i hate the fact the chibnall makes the doctor narrate everthing.
like... a pretty obvious thing will happen and the doctor will be like "oh damn.. this thing happened... that obviously means *dramatic pause* this and that" *doctor picks up a thing and scans it with her screwdriver* "well i'm scanning this thing now"
i hate it.
“...we found a letter from a alien father to a son. It was beautiful... I mean, we found it on a mutilated corpse that had overdosed on ketamine and tried to pick a fight with the radiator of our SUV going 65 in a school zone, you know the one with like 30 speed bumps, but still Magical.”
" A whole new wooooorlddd..."
@@charlesmaddison212 a whoooooooole nee-eeew woooooooorld
TWENTY FIRST CENTURY, EVERYTHING CHANGES
@Edward
“What does that mean?”
@@smorgasbord9940 That line is said in the narration of torchwood's first ep. So a whole new world...
When you remember that this is the the species of alien from the Sarah Jane Adventures.
Enit
Oop i just posted the same comment sorry blobby
Arcateenian
@@EternalPayne I like how Whithouse actually gave the species a little shout out in "Before the Flood" from series 9
yes it was the creature in Sarahs garden in the 1st episode of SJA, it was kind, like sarah jane, but in Torchwood it was sinister, Like torchwood
Something rather sad I'd noticed on my most recent rewatch, is how, after Mary lets Tosh go, Tosh runs to Ianto for protection and comfort, even though Owen was a closer distance to her. She truly felt like she couldn't confide in Owen anymore after his affair with Gwen, and that is really heartbreaking.
I mean you describing how Mary treats Tosh is basically the textbook definition of Coercive Control and emotional abuse. Was Torchwood ahead of it's time in showing us that? Like was this secretly also about coercive control before the term coercive control existed? Like after watching the coercive control storyline on Corrie and also watching a documentary type thingy about it the way you described Mary and her power over Tosh is how abusers are with victims when there is coercive control. the victim becomes utterly dependent on the abuser and is cut off from their own world. their job, their friends, their family. They also never act against the abuser out of fear of violence. I mean this is literally how Mary treats Tosh.
That isolation tactic is also the way many cults 'recruit' new members
@@dseray9494 thats interesting. Coercive Control is only a new term thatvhas only come about recently but after reading into what the signs are the way Harbo described Mary and Tosh it literally all the tell tale signs of Coercive control. Like you could literally tick them off a list.
@@CashelOConnolly nope. I am just paying attention to stuff like the news and listening to real life stories from victims of Coercive control and paying attention to changes in the law. You know common things by which you can learn about stuff like this. It doesn't kill to you know do a bit of research. I do not have any qualifications in psychology. If psychology is "pseudo science" how are people diagnosed with mental health issues. Is my Anxiety not real because the brain cannot be studied? What about my Dyspraxia? Is that not real? Shut up and get some common sense.
@@CashelOConnolly Then perhaps you should learn something as well. Psychiatry is a medical field specializing in the sorts of mental disorders that require actual medical treatment via meds. Psychology, on the other hand, is a field of study taught to counselors to help treat emotional issues which do NOT require medical treatment.
This is important because not everyone who is suffering mentally actually needs drugs to regain mental balance. There are people who have been traumatized emotionally and simply need to be able to get these issues off of their chest but may not know how to identify said problems and thus have trouble healing from them. Emotional wounds are every bit as real as physical ones...but drugs will not cure them.
That's why psychology is NOT pseudo-science. It is a very real and important field of study which is best designed for these emotional wounds.
I would encourage you to actually do some research yourself into this subject before simply brushing it off so dismissively...and, might I add, rudely.
@@lucypreece7581 ❤️
I just remember I felt so bad for Tosh in this episode, more than I felt bad or Ianto or Owen or Gwen in their episodes (or backstories). She just seems so lonely, and Ianto kind of wanted to be because of Lisa (and I did feel bad for him too, but maybe that he hid a cyberwoman tempered that) but Tosh just is lonely, even though she doesn't want to be.
The guy who tries to kill his family is the same actor who plays Yaz's dad
😳
Oh wow I never actually realised 😂
He remarried .... Yaz’s family is next 😳😳😳
@@Connorpullinger Oh shit oh fuck 😳😳😳😳
@@Connorpullinger god I hope so
I always understood the line about Jack’s friend to mean, Jack’s friend was dealing with a lot and Jack had no idea. Not that transitioning is what makes Jack nervous. But that someone he’a close to could be dealing with all this heavy stuff and Jack is oblivious to it.
Ok but think of how cool it would have been to have Jack in the background of the cold open. Give like a scene of a group of people and he’s just vibing in... whatever time period that is
I'm surprised that you don't mention the obvious analogue to an abusive relationship. Mary isolate Tosh from her friends and convinces her that she is the only person that she can trust. She accomplishes this by praying on her insecurities and showing her attention and affection when she is vulnerable. Just like an abusive relationship, Mary gets upset when Tosh doesn't do what she wanted. As the video even says, her sense of self and identity have been stripped away. Even setting so much of their story in typical "Domestic/dating" locations like a bar, an apartment and the bedroom. This couldn't be more transparent in my opinion
Yeah, I was thinking about that the entire time and expecting him to get to that later.
Team Torchwood: Jack... you killed her
Jack: YES! 😏
Did you poison me, Jack?
YES!
Torchwood badly needs an HR department.
absolutely love this episode! tosh is one of my faves and letting her be unabashedly interested in a woman while also developing her character was such a treat for me to watch :) best line: "I'm shagging a woman and an alien." "Which is worse?" "Well, I know what my parents would say."
To clarify: I don't think Tosh had to end up with a woman in the end, I just would have preferred her with someone other than Owen. And I do think that as the writers made their one lesbian relationship so toxic, they owed it to viewers to balance that out with something more healthy. (Jack and Ianto aren't the same thing.)
Obviously the show aired before a lot of the conversations that have been taking place in recent years about TV representation, but it makes you realize how far we've come. And maybe how far we still have to go, if this trope isn't considered as obvious and toxic as Bury Your Gays. I was honestly surprised Harbo mentioned the transphobia thing and not the more obvious use of this trope. Given that the whole episode was built around this and the Jack thing was just a throwaway line.
@@lateralhistory i definitely agree. while i love that tosh is canonly attracted to women, the way they kind of brush it off as just a one time thing and focus on her unrequited crush on owen (who is uninterested in her at best and treats her like shit at worst) rather than actually taking the time to explore that facet of her character and maybe have her date other women is pretty disappointing. in fact it’s almost slammed in your face after this episode that tosh likes men, her crush on owen and her thing with the frozen soldier being a big focus, and yet never again does she make even a passing reference to liking women or even to having had liked a woman in the past. not even a passing excuse of “oh mary was so bad she put me off women forever!” (which i wouldn’t LIKE, but at least it would have been an actual explanation instead of just radio silence)
@@crow6558 Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And the whole framing of Tosh's character just sits poorly with me. I mean, we had a similar trajectory with Ianto, where he starts off a shy loner and an outsider to the group, but he is allowed to grow in confidence and assertiveness and open himself up to love - even if it does end badly. Tosh is never really allowed to go on the same journey. She always feels like a background presence or a supporting player in Owen's story, and I really wanted her to evolve beyond that.
That's partly because Torchwood as a show has a very cynical, wannabe grimdark tone, and it never really worked for me. I felt they needed more balance, and Tosh was a character who could really have provided that. She was much gentler than the others and had more of a capacity for seeing the wonder in the world. More episodes that incorporated that or even focused on it entirely would have strengthened the series as a whole, in my view. That's what Doctor Who does so well, and that's what Torchwood always failed to do, for me. That balance. It's a shame. The ingredients of a good show are there but the tone issues let them down.
@@lateralhistory i 100% agree! tosh was always one of my favorite characters and it really pissed me off that she never really got the chance to develop and grow like some of the other characters did, and when her character was focused on 99% of the time it was to roundaboutly develop owen's character instead. its just such a shame bc tosh was such an amazing character! the little snippets of her backstory that we do get are so interesting and i would've loved to learn more about her trauma related to her imprisonment and how that impacted her, not multiple scenes of her taking care of owen and getting sad when he treats her like shit. spoilers (for a show that ended a decade ago) but she literally even DIES with owen, like they couldnt figure out how to treat her character if he wasn't there. it's bad writing and it's just annoying.
This episode is a little bit forgettable especially coming after Countrycide. I do like how Tosh is the focus here after being in the background and barely being in Aliens of London. It shows where she is from there to being in torchwood with another episode coming up to fill the gap. Janey from My Family is a little weird at first lol. I dont really care for the episode but i wouldnt say its bad just unmemorable
Ain't this that alien from SJA? Ah shit blobby posted the same comment
This came first I belive
I just realised that Torchwood is an anagram of Doctor Who. Damm, I'm an idiot.
Tosh was my favorite character from the first episode so greeks bearing gifts was a great episode for me when i first watched it and still is
Ianto's scene is just heartbreaking...
And I wish Jack tried a bit harder to help his coworkers deal with their job emotionally. He's so distant in these episodes!
12:23 Person of Interest is an extremely underrated show that explores that concept and many more concepts that surround it!
Ironically, Chibnall's best acts of writing are his character pieces, despite his Doctor and Companions having little to no character. :p
Even though this was whithouse and I feel he would've made an interesting show runner from his previous work
@dr103 Oh wow
i did not know that
oof
Love this episode one of my favourites! Mary the Arcateenian is one of the most visually stunning yet creepy aliens in the series! Also it was nice to have my girl Tosh finally get the spotlight!
Can't wait for the next episode!!! :D
My defining memory of this episode is noticing at the time how it is beat for beat identical to the Buffy episode "Earshot", which first aired seven year earlier.
a lot of these episodes are Buffy based, end of days was the big one!
Something I think is worth mentioning is when Toshiko tried to read Captain Jack's mind, and the aftermath of this. Firstly, Jack knew immediately that she tried tapping into his mind, jumping up and noticing what she was doing. It was clear he tried to divert the tension away to make Tosh unaware of his knowledge, claiming "is there something on my face?". As well as Jack noticing his mind was trying to be invaded, Toshiko mentions that no matter how much she tried, she just couldn't get inside. She claimed she just saw blankness and that it was, and I quote, "like you were dead".
As we all know, Captain Jack is immortal, but did actually die once a long time ago. When he died, he was brought back to life and made immortal, unable to die again. Each time he would, he would heal and come back to life, unscarred. And ageing incredibly slowly. Perhaps the idea that he had once died does play some sort of toll on the reasoning in why his mind cannot be invaded, or the other explanation is that Jack is from the future. Not even from Earth. Sure, he's a human, but humanity, in his time, has evolved. Perhaps it's just the idea that Jack has more human abilities than general 21st century humans. In addition to this, Jack is also an ex-Time Agent, learning all sorts of tricks throughout his missions. So it comes to no surprise that he is capable of blocking things out of his mind. As we see in "A Good Man Goes To War", there are many things you can do to see beyond what is shown to you, such as a military soldier learning to bypass a psychic paper test.
I personally believe it's the latter. I see no reason for it to be connected to Jack's immortality because Jack, regardless of his first death, is still alive and well. He still functions exactly like he normally should, including the ability to reproduce. He's even has a daughter, of who is mortal. So I believe it's something to do with Jack's biological processes as a whole. Even his sense of smell is different, as mentioned in 'Fragments', Jack has a nice and refreshing smell which comes natural to him because of the time period he was born in.
Either way, it was an interesting thing to mention considering throughout Torchwood, people have always been associated around death and it's kind of interesting considering the fact that the main character cannot die.
I'm looking forward to a Random Shoes review
I wonder why everyone likes random shows so much. I know they intentionally made the main character boring but GOD it's boring. It does show the effects that alien artifacts have on normal people in every day life but still god.
I love that episode
@@giovannicouture it's just love and monsters with no abzorbaloff, also known as perfection
@@BananaAARON Oh that's true it is simmilar to love and monsters. But the whole ebay premise was quite strange and will probably end up dating it if ebay goes out of style. I think that whole part of him being run over is quite strange though. You mean to tell me he didn't see the car? Is this supposed to allude to suicide because of his faliures in life and he being delusional because of his memory loss or am I looking too far into it? It's just not getting it for me. At least it's not as bad as Cyber Woman. I forgot my original point to this now I'm just rambling. It's not bad no. But it's just not good. (in my opinion of course)
Always thought firing her into the sun was a bit harsh
It's okay, he sent her there at night.
@@cameronmonaghan6883 Stop 😂😂😂
I wish the Arcateenians appeared in Class then they'd be 'that alien race from all the spinoffs'
I like Tosh's development but both episodes centred on her it's about her love live. Could've been a bit creative.
10:47 no, Ianto's thoughts were and I quote 'stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch stopwatch'
I like how Mary is an Arcateenan. Which appeared in the pilot of Sarah Jane adventures giving her a gift. I can't help but wonder what exactly Sarah Jane did for it.
They're also mentioned in Before the Flood, and and the ones responsible for sending the Fisher King to Earth. They also enslaved those cowardly aliens.
I adored Tosh, but could never understand why she had feelings for Owen as he was such a selfish person.
Some say opposites attract.
I've always wondered if this aliens is from the same species as the one that meets Sarah Jane Smith in her backyard in the SJA debut episode.
It is, Mary and the Star Poet are the same race. Probably to make more use of the model but I quite like that we see a nice and an evil representation of the race. It harkens back to Tosh’s comment about how all cultures seem to wage war but yet they also have love and poetry, letters and loss. It ties in well by making it the same race and I wonder if that was deliberate or not, given the writing for these shows was pretty solid most of the time I’m not going to rule it out to coincidence right off (13 years later?)
I swear you could make these reviews into a podcast haha
I loved the insights we got into Ianto’s mind in this episode. It’s a nice companion to the audio dramas that show his struggles coping with Lisa’s murder at the hands of Jack.
This episode is much like much of the rest of series 1- great story, not-so-great cgi.
this episode is also a great allegory of an abusive relationship
Tosh has gotta be my favourite in the show, she deserves so much more
I like the directing, where occasionally things getreallyspeedyandits fun to watch
The specific character episodes is such a good formula, it could have made the last two seasons of doctor who pretty good.
One of my favorite episodes. Great review! Thank you for giving Torchwood the attention it deserves.
I love these deep dives into every torchwood episode I really hope you do series 2 and onward
I think it depends on whether you can consciously control your telepathy (like Charles Xavier in the X-Men series) or whether it just allows you to hear thoughts without being able to "switch off" for a while.
I might take this opportunity to rewatch these episodes for the videos.
Really enjoy your video style mate ive tched doctorwho and torchwood twice now and this review series has given me the same nostalgia value 200%!
Love this episode! Fantastic breakdown as always man! 🤘🏻
Jack absolutely wouldn't say that its very out of character for him, i mean i could see Owen saying something like that tho
I wonder how the dynamic of the group would change if the doctor was the leader...
This episode and Jack's reaction gets better after you find out Tosh and Jack met through Tosh being taken care of.
So the second she is acting weird during the interrogation, he knows what's going on
always love your regular Torchwood based reviews, keep it up!!!!😁😁😁
I think you just started a whole industry of Theoden-Wormtongue fan fiction.
Tosh was my favourite character!
A great episode for sure. Torchwood was such a brilliant spin-off!
great timeing, l just finished this episode last night!
I can’t watch it yet, but I will after I finish the season
I too like character driven stuff and really liked this episode.
how is there only 717 likes... your vids are so well done, how is that possible!!
Haribo I’ve just been watching your back catalogue of videos (Crispy was nagging me too,I’m glad I did. Your videos are great) you have a problem saying the word ‘entirety’ so do I
Definitely a greater character piece of an episode, but the alien girl Tosh falls in love with is wholeheartedly very unlikeable. So it's on the whole a very mixed episode. Also that transgender line does feel very out of place but clearly is meant in a more loving way for Jack since the dude accepts anyone for who they are. It’s just a bit off in an otherwise solid character piece.
23 hours ago wait how
@@BritishTrainspotting They’re a patreon they get 24 hours early access
Idk I liked Mary
the point of the line was that people acting differently worries him, showing that he sees it as a bad thing
The actress who plays Mary has a knack of playing really unlikeable characters. She played an unlikeable character on Waterloo Road.
One of my favorite episodes
Super review..
Great vid. How are you watching these episodes? I can only find poor quality versions on daily motion.
buy the boxset or i think its on bbc iplayer? atleast it was last i checked
Oh yeah, it is on iplayer. Thanks man
Hey thanks for not skipping over the trans remark. It means a lot to some of us.
@Parsimonious that's part of the interesting thing about media from the past. Looking at it through a modern lense, critiquing it.
The trans quote is a thorny issue. Imo, the analogy was more or less fine until the end where Jack implied that he no longer trusted people as a result of it. I get the purpose behind it, but there are far less controversial or more straightforward analogies that could have served the same purpose without the uncharacteristic views on gender politics. "Vincent" ending up a serial killer or committing suicide would have fitted well with the "a little nervous" line. Serial killer would have matched the trademark Series 1 e d g e , while suicide would have highlighted that Jack is genuinely concerned about Tosh's wellbeing, not just about the fact that she's acting weird.
A gender-positive variant of the original quote could have worked if they had removed "that was his name after all", and if it had ended more like: "He comes back, except now she's called Vanessa. Since then, I've always made sure to reach out when a friend behaves out of character. You never know if they might need a hand, or someone to talk about it with... *meaningful stare*". That said, it would still have possibly been excessive.
I agree. I feel like jack as a character who is from the future, an alien and pansexual or inter species-sexual wouldn’t have that way of thinking and John being gay too makes it feel even more poor taste and out of character
If Owen said it would've worked but for Jack to say it really doesn't fit his character
Tosh is the best character so far imo(I'm rewatching after a decade along with the reviews).
the alien model for Mary was actually stolen from the Sarah Jane adventures pilot lol
I mean, it's not stealing if they're taking from themselves
@@TripleJumpYTP yeah reused would be more accurate
Actually Torchwood came out in 2006 and Sarah Jane came out in 2007 so SJA stole it lol
@@EternalPayne not really when there in the same universe
Mary’s actress killed this
have you done any videos on john hart? if not, pleaseee do
I like this episode alot
I watched Minority Report the other day lol.
Nice
My Queen TOSHIKO SATO !
That lovely lady deserved so much better, wish Tommy could have stuck around for her. Loved her since Doctor Who Series 1, the intelligent conversation she had with the 9th Doctor really stood out. I was excited to find out she was gonna be on Torchwood and she has not disappointed. Absolutely criminal I've just started watching it a few weeks ago.
Whilst the deadnaming and misgendering int he vanessa story were yikes, qnd i see what's being said, i always took it as that he'd never noticed that before, and feels if he'd noticed the steange behaviour, he could have helped Vanessa, though maybe thats more of a headcanon. Definitely not the way to talk about a trans person though
I’ve always thought that instead of the dodgy trans quote, Jack’s suspicion hold easily be explained by the whole Susie situation. I feel like Jack wouldn’t want that to happen again, and aside from genuinely caring about his Team’s wellbeing, he would become suspicious a bit easier.
Can we call this a job? (torchwood i mean) are they being paid by jack or something?? If you dont get paid for something its not a job its a hobby, and its never implicitly stated they get anything money wise from torchwood, they all just have the same hobby of looking at cool alien shit but i dont think that counts as a job, I’d like to look at some cool alien shit for free, but it wouldn’t make its my job
Gwen talks about the money she gets from it to Rupesh in children of Earth and apparently it’s a lot of money
Torchwood was set up by Queen Victoria, right? And in Children Of Earth it was mentioned they get paid by the crown
I disagree. I feel the moment between Gwen and Tosh proves that Gwen lacks a moral compass and is years into moral bankruptcy given she’s a cheating asshat betraying her partners trust for a quickie with a coworker bc “she can’t tell” despite everyone knowing about Torchwood at this point given the “bloody Tortchwood!” scenes. She’s not keeping some secret for global peace she’s sleeping with another man and trying to downplay her own guilt. Her partner deserves better and she can go become host to a parasitic hive bc cheating is something done with purpose and choice. It’s NEVER an accident as a multitude of choices and decisions go into every stage of the process. She fights aliens but she’s inhuman to go about betraying her partner like that.
If you'd actually paid attention to the entire Gwen/Owen arc, you would know WHY she cheated on Rhys. Go back and rewatch it, and then you'll understand. And if you still don't, I'm happy to explain it to you.
@@wanderingshadow1372 please do explain
13:00 - While I've gotta admit that Jack's tale about his friend transitioning to a woman is a little bit iffy in terms of using it as reason for being suspicious of Tosh, you've gotta remember that it's all down to relative and subjective interpretation. Like, when HW says it makes it out to seem like people should be paranoid of transgender people. That's his subjective interpretation of the dialogue.
Personally, I disagree and don't think it's transphobic-based within the context, dialogue, or delivery. When you look at it completely objectively, the story doesn't actually insult or degrade transgenders in anyway. It doesn't say that his friend transitioning was a bad thing, it doesn't say that Jack didn't trust or stopped being friends with him after, it literally says nothing bad about transgenders. All it was was a parable Jack used to explain to Tosh why he believes that a friend suddenly acting strange means something important and significant is up. Could a better analogy have been used, or perhaps better dialogue choices? Almost certainly. But when it comes down to it, I think it's obvious it wasn't intended to be derogatory or any form of social commentary.
That's just my opinion though, no need to shoot me.
I agree, nothing about that’s as transphobic, people are just overreacting.
I think it’s definitely dodgy but it wasn’t like made with a transphobic intent just written by a person who’s at most a bit transphobic.
13:20 this line is definitely based
13:33 Likely at þe time it was a way to try to add more representation for transsexual people, it just didn't age well.
as a trans person, jack’s line was DEFINITELY dodgy to say the least. it’s not something jack would say AT ALL and is wrong on so many levels imo
i agree. (fellow trans person here) he is meant to be a person from the far future and is usually very supportive and out of character. edit: i enjoy the rest of the episode and think it is great just it is kind of tainted by transphobia which sucks
Or he was just using an amusing anecdote to show how someone suddenly acting slightly off can mean a lot more than you may realise if you don't pay attention...the trans friend was a harmless example but Tosh's situation was far from...and is it really transphobic to point out that when someone reveals they are trans that it's a pretty big adjustment for those around them as well, or are we just lodging our heads firmly up our arses on that?
shut up
Yeah, currently watching Torchwood with a trans friend of mine and dreading when we get to this episode for this exact reason. Like, it’s a good episode overall, but that one line is *YIKES.*
P.s. I looked it up and Toby Whithouse wrote another transphobic joke in “A Town Called Mercy” about a horse called Susan. So yeah, not great.
@@cptsteele91 it is obviously a big adjustment, won’t deny that. But the issue is that Jack compares Tosh’s situation to something as harmless as a friend coming out as trans. Tosh is being manipulated and used by an alien, and that is an awful thing that is definitely not comparable to Jack’s trans friend.
I want Torchwood back but I’ll not get my wish . They could bring the whole cast back by simply having what happened to them put into a parallel universe. It’s sci-fi so you can do anything!!! I don’t want the American sh*t.
I want Torchwood as in the three seasons not the fourth
❤️🥰
6082
YEEESSSSSS
Love the video but I don't know if it was the best choice to decide whether that line was transphobic or not tbh.
Apart from the line from Jack about his trans friend, I do think this is a mostly good episode. Not one of the best of Series 1 (I much preferred Out Of Time, Combat and Captain Jack Harkness), but still a fairly good one. This episode, as well as the three I mentioned are ones that I do think are worth people pushing through the likes of Day One and Cyberwoman for.
Mary was definitely part of my bisexual awakening
This episode is good enough, but I prefer her episode with Tommy. This episode is just depressing because of how Tosh is treated and thought of.
I don't think the trans thing is transphobic, it just does what it says, Jack is observant of small changes in people.
But equally, it doesn't seem like the sort of thing Jack would be "nervous" about. He would be interested, for sure.
Ultimately I thing this line has aged poorly, but was probably fair game for 2007. Back then, even the recognition that transgender people exist was probably a victory of sorts.
literally misgendering someone but ok
Tosh and Tommy were beautiful, the way he looks at her with pure adoration. No ulterior motives...just love.
Hey! It's that rapeisode I blocked from my memory
I dont think the line was ment to be transphobic if we break it down.
"Regular guy, girlfriend, likes his sports, likes a beer."
You know this as the 'norm' however "he starts acting a little strange, a little distracted" meaning you notice something is off but you didn't reach out.
"Suddenly he disappears for a couple months. He comes back, and we have to start calling him Vanessa" you lose contact with your friend to only see them again and not recognize them anymore 'its like their a completely different person'.
"Since then I've always been a little nervous when a friend behave out of character." Dont let people subtle changes go in vain it may be more serious that you can imagine. Thats what I gather from that...
But it is still transphobic because he’s deadnaming and misgendering his friend as he tells the story
This is true, it is transphobic. That tends to happen recounting the diametrically opposed memories of someone you used to know. Its almost like that person has passed away. I'm saying this as it shows Jack being overwhelmed by emotion recounting the story. I see how it can convey being transphobic. My first perceived message trying to be relayed by Jack overshadows that notion... to me at least. Thank you for help clarifying that point of view for me!
Every time i watch this episode i cant get over the transphobia bit. Its so out of character for Jack
I didn't really like this episode
Yeah.... that paragraph is transphobic. You can tell because not only is the implication that someone transitioning something to be nervous about.. but:
- the character saying this is a time travelling omnisexual from the future (who has definitely alluded to exploring other species too, so... it's exremely unlikely he'd have issues)
- the pronouns stay the same the whole way through
- a focus on the idea that vanessa was "a regular guy doing guy things" before.
Overall it's a terrible take, and honestly out of character for Jack. Therefore it falls back on the writers, and to some degree the BBC as a whole - and this early in the millenium the BBC was more than happy to express casual transphobia. But especially for the time - it's not like trans people were getting much screen time. A writer had to go out of their way to insert such a story. It took more effort to include that story than not. that scene was used as a platform for a story that said "trans people existing makes me nervous." And honestly if someone is writing like that, especially if it appears to an observer to only teeter on the edge of transphobia, it should be treated as transphobia. Most racism, sexism, etc. is rather subtle, and if you as an observer find it "yikes" then they were not being subtle about it. Look to Rowling and the uproar she has caused. There have been people calling her out on transphobia, racism and the like for years, but it was not until she practically stapled the acronym terf to her forehead, that the greater world actually started acknowledging these claims. (and the BBC gave her an award for it.) It takes a remarkable lack of subtlety for the greater community to even *see* that someone is being transphobic.
Now, just to hope this gets through automod because i'm convinced some of these terms are gonna get caught.
So this episode hates Trans people but it is okay with a Human having s3x with an Alien???
Seriously..... and people wonder why people like me (who is trans) are TERRIFIED of telling anyone else.
4 minutes 40 seconds... That's how long it took me to realise that Mary is played by the girl who played the daughter in "My Family". That was bugging me...
Also, 13:26 Typical leftist meme with about 30 lines of writing which is ultimately just complaining.
Bruh
Bang on about a left wing walloftext meme!
Imagine whinging about a meme kinda sad
I see it as more of a humorous observation in addendum.
Jack's comments have become a focal point about this episode for people who have nothing better than to obsess about nonsense.
Focusing on the fact the writer could be transphobic is nonsense?
@@arvarvanwar yes.
IdPol nonsense.
@@arvarvanwar FYzi the writer is Toby Whithouse.
@@SierraSierraFoxtrot How can being concerned about a very transphobic sentiment be nonsense, unless you are saying that you believe transphobia does not matter? In which case, I just assume you are either ignorant or a transphobe.
@@arvarvanwar your attitude exemplifies why it is nonsense at best.
13:19 Hey dude, been watching your vids for awhile, could you, um, PLEASE NOT speak over trans people about trans issues and claim, as a cis man, that you don't believe Toby Whithouse is transphobic based on that line.
I literally said I'm not an authority on it
@@HarboWholmes "Personally, I don't think so" is the line I'm referring to specifically. :/
Appreciate that you don't claim to be an authority, and I appreciate that you bring the line up at all, but I don't appreciate a cis person's opinion on whether or not something is transphobic.
(Like, I also don't mean to come across as antagonistic. When a great portion of the populous hate you for no real reason, it's difficult to not get defensive.)
Snowflake alert
@@almondmilkbone you are being antagonistic tho, you're literally saying you don't want his opinion when hes not trans, you dont need to be or do something to have an opinion on it
God I hope this is satire, if not this is still fucking hysterical