Random thoughts: This was my favorite of the series. Hot take: A large part of that is how little Orion is in the book. Liesel is El's true balance in the universe. Where El chaos, Liesel is order. El is emotion, Liesel is reason. When El needs to act, Liesel is the will that drives her to move; when El is all will power and intent, Liesel is there putting things into their proper place and making sure it actually gets done. And so on. Not that I need them to be in a relationship, but I do find their dynamic more interesting that EL and Orion. I loved El as a character from the first book, but I've merely tolerated Orion. What happens to Orion now? Can he age? Can he die? If he can does that mean the Scholomance will just collapse when he kicks the bucket? Poor Liu... Ophelia getting off scot-free with no repercussions was entirely the point, that's what power does. I'll take the brutal honesty over the narrative satisfaction, it's ultimately more interesting.
These books were very classy. The big bad was alienation under capitalism, the conflict revolved around class struggle, and the solution was always to build soludarity with others.
I LOVED the mother/daughter dynamic. It felt so healthy and real compared to most YA novels I've read recently, and I love how there is always love between them (even when El was screaming at her to join an enclave or mad about the Orion stuff).
I just finished the book, and I came right away because I have no one to talk to (right now without spoiling) and I just need to join the discussion. This book left me sobbing even after it was over. Edit: I just started the video and I'm already crying again. Edit 2: I'm not alone! I'm too much of a hopeless romantic so I did not like the Liesel fling.
Enjoying this again. I see what Will means with too much kumbaya and neatness, though I tend to lean toward happy endings. At the same time, I like consequences. I loved the ending, but I think part of why the ending didn't feel to perfect was it gave me everything I wanted. The main reason I think the ending works is that so much of these books seem to be an introspection on the nature of evil and how everyday people, no matter how indirectly, contribute to how rotten our world can be. So I didn't need a villain as much as hope at the ending. Also, the fact people didn't embrace the better solution helped prevent the ending, for me, from being fairytale.
I liked the El/Liesel scenes. They felt like "friends with benefits" not a romance so (for me) it didn't encroach on what El has with Orion. I do agree that the ending is little too neat, but that's because I'm a cynic and I don't trust people to always be logical enough to even look out for their own interests. A lot of the plot in this book (and the entire trilogy) hinges on reasoning with people and that tactic is very successful in the books. But in reality, sometimes people just do irrational things and there's no way to reason with them. All that said, I do love these books. The worldbuilding and magic system is very tight and cohesive, the characters are complex and nuanced, and I do love everyone working together to build a better world even if it makes the cynic in me balk.
This is such a fun trilogy, I am a sucker for El and her narrations and I was SO not on board with El and Liesel. I'm with Will, I think the ending was a little too neat, but I'm also A Pessimist so
I didn't know about you guys when I first read the series so I just sat there with my thoughts, trying to pressure my siblings into reading it because it blew my mind. It was the first dark academia book I read and helped me understand what the genre was about under "the vibes". I've never read a book that so deeply went into deconstructing an unfair society (El being insanely powerful is what makes this possible, and there's no singular big bad to defeat and I love that). All the big twists left me gasping and when I found out what happened to Lu and what the enclaves are, it left me feeling viscerally disgusted and horrified. And then the scene after when they build the 1st golden enclave was SO powerful. It was hard, tiring work that took many people, but thanks to everyone's efforts they built something sustainable and for everyone. Something we could absolutely do in real life, in a manner of speaking, but it's so hard to uproot the foundations of corruption and it will have far reaching consequences when we do.
This is the best case of "oh shit i wish i came up with this" it sounds amazing i might pick up the books even if ive already had them sumarised from you
Finished this book yesterday and suffering from severe book hangover. Had to find a youtube podcast about it to get over my feels because no one around me reads!! 😤😤 i thought 1.5 hours was way too long a commentary but.. it was the perfect way to get over my feels so thank you!!
Almost dropped the book spoiler Because I though the sex scene was so out of place especially since she was suppose to be in love with him . These scenes felt out of place
I just finished the book and came here to rewatch the video because I had too many thoughts and no one to scream them at XD I liked the book while I was reading it, even though I missed an end point/goal the book was moving towards. However, I don't think it's a great ending to the first two books. The first one is about "things are easier when we work together", or, as I like to call it "friendship is magic". The second one is the same, but even better. And the third one... It falls flat for me. Not as an individual book, but as an ending to what I expected to be a "frienship is magic, especially in dark times" trilogy. Also, at least 20% of this book could have been cut and the book would be better for it.
You guys....are awesome. I just completed the trilogy so I could watch the review and its just as wonderful as you've described it...or dare I say....Maria's acting took the last act to a whole new level, even better than the book.
I found your channel when you did the Last Graduate review and have loved everything you posted… I’m a huge Novik fan and you guys word all my reasons to live her books so articulately! I literally teared up again listening to Maria talking about the 3rd act! 😅
This whole series sounds so good! You guys keep making me add books to my reading list and I love you for it! PS: I totally get Maria and Breaking Bad. Don't think I could ever re-watch it. I appreciate it as a great show, but the headspace it puts me in is not happy. Call me basic, but I need a happy end or some hope in the books/shows I read/watch.
Enjoyed the book and found your comments spot-on! I wonder If her origins writing fan-fiction leads to introspection scenes Will has a wee bit of issue with.? Also, Novik nailed the first person narrative throughout the series. As El grows the narrative voice reinforces that for the reader. Great channel guys!
I just want to say thank you, I just finished the book last night, so emotionally gone and so listening to you guys speaking about it is helping me cope
would you ever consider doing an episode on a classic like lord of the rings or perhaps a manga like Witch Hat Atelier ( an adorable story about a girl becoming a magical apprentice to an old wizard in a very atmospheric casual magical time )
I thought it was bold to have a hero who is not monogamous with her one true tragic love, and given that the series was written partially as a Harry Potter reaction and everyone hated the “then you marry your high school boyfriend” epilogue there it made sense to try to do something different. That said I felt like I more supported El/Liesel then shipped El/Liesel, if that makes sense. I’ve also noticed that among my friends, the people who listened on audiobook on average tended to be a little bit more fed up with El’s introspection than the people who read in text, because the text readers were all skimming whenever she got really navel-gazey
Loved the book. You could really feel the character's jet lag and exhaustion throughout. However, we listened to the audiobook while on a road trip. Do not recommend things that make you feel jetlagged and exhausted on long road trips.
Loved your podcast! It's wonderful to share the excitement of reading this series. For me, this third book missed the mark a bit with its lack of monster fighting/showing off El's growing powers and unfortunate addition of the relationship between El and Liesel. I felt like it cheapened the love between El and Orion, which was one of El's primary motivators. Ultimately, the great reveals bumped this one up to a 3/5 for me. Thanks again for the discussion!
I was a little disappointed in this book. I felt like it suffered from a little bit of the same issues that plagued the last hunger games book and even the last Harry Potter book. When a relatively contained setting is blown open, and the stakes are increased as a result, sometimes it feels like the plot suffers? Or maybe it's the character arcs. Not to mention, I was disappointed in how little these exotic international settings were fleshed out. There was no flavor to speak of in the descriptions of the different countries. The Leisel stuff made me cringe, mainly because she was so unlikeable. Whereas poor Orion was just a miserable wreck. And the ending reminded me a bit of the last season of Castlevania where, spoiler alert, Trevor improbably defeats the final boss with a weapon he's been "subtly" putting together over the course of several episodes, out of parts he just happened to find 😅 I liked the stuff with El's family. Loved seeing Aadhya and Liu. Creepiness factor was enjoyably high. But definitely not what I would consider a super strong ending.
I was not looking forward to this book coming out, I was looking forward to your podcast episode converting it instead.... actually that's been happening more and more lately
Will is vegetarian/vegan? Just interesting. Like yes ther have to change thing a lot , and vegetarian vegan is good but dont wanna miss fish and seafood. And wow maria is such a vivid narrator :O Poor orion :( And smart el playing the game for good. And that , like her reaizing, holy crap, we are all gonna die and that people still betray each other. Still, it changes nothing. Maybe el has a bettr way what the hell she pulls there. Mayb i should help her, for now. Whatever that is. and talking latr something and may trying to make up and being annoyingly ... . Honetly,istoppd brreaking bad with gus ther as gus is so interesting and orderly to balance walt but last season, thats just depressing.
Random thoughts:
This was my favorite of the series. Hot take: A large part of that is how little Orion is in the book.
Liesel is El's true balance in the universe. Where El chaos, Liesel is order. El is emotion, Liesel is reason. When El needs to act, Liesel is the will that drives her to move; when El is all will power and intent, Liesel is there putting things into their proper place and making sure it actually gets done. And so on. Not that I need them to be in a relationship, but I do find their dynamic more interesting that EL and Orion. I loved El as a character from the first book, but I've merely tolerated Orion.
What happens to Orion now? Can he age? Can he die? If he can does that mean the Scholomance will just collapse when he kicks the bucket?
Poor Liu...
Ophelia getting off scot-free with no repercussions was entirely the point, that's what power does. I'll take the brutal honesty over the narrative satisfaction, it's ultimately more interesting.
agree
These books were very classy. The big bad was alienation under capitalism, the conflict revolved around class struggle, and the solution was always to build soludarity with others.
I LOVED the mother/daughter dynamic. It felt so healthy and real compared to most YA novels I've read recently, and I love how there is always love between them (even when El was screaming at her to join an enclave or mad about the Orion stuff).
I just finished the book, and I came right away because I have no one to talk to (right now without spoiling) and I just need to join the discussion. This book left me sobbing even after it was over.
Edit: I just started the video and I'm already crying again.
Edit 2: I'm not alone! I'm too much of a hopeless romantic so I did not like the Liesel fling.
Enjoying this again. I see what Will means with too much kumbaya and neatness, though I tend to lean toward happy endings. At the same time, I like consequences. I loved the ending, but I think part of why the ending didn't feel to perfect was it gave me everything I wanted. The main reason I think the ending works is that so much of these books seem to be an introspection on the nature of evil and how everyday people, no matter how indirectly, contribute to how rotten our world can be. So I didn't need a villain as much as hope at the ending. Also, the fact people didn't embrace the better solution helped prevent the ending, for me, from being fairytale.
I didn't even read the book but I'm crying right now
same
I liked the El/Liesel scenes. They felt like "friends with benefits" not a romance so (for me) it didn't encroach on what El has with Orion.
I do agree that the ending is little too neat, but that's because I'm a cynic and I don't trust people to always be logical enough to even look out for their own interests. A lot of the plot in this book (and the entire trilogy) hinges on reasoning with people and that tactic is very successful in the books. But in reality, sometimes people just do irrational things and there's no way to reason with them. All that said, I do love these books. The worldbuilding and magic system is very tight and cohesive, the characters are complex and nuanced, and I do love everyone working together to build a better world even if it makes the cynic in me balk.
This is such a fun trilogy, I am a sucker for El and her narrations and I was SO not on board with El and Liesel. I'm with Will, I think the ending was a little too neat, but I'm also A Pessimist so
I didn't know about you guys when I first read the series so I just sat there with my thoughts, trying to pressure my siblings into reading it because it blew my mind. It was the first dark academia book I read and helped me understand what the genre was about under "the vibes". I've never read a book that so deeply went into deconstructing an unfair society (El being insanely powerful is what makes this possible, and there's no singular big bad to defeat and I love that). All the big twists left me gasping and when I found out what happened to Lu and what the enclaves are, it left me feeling viscerally disgusted and horrified. And then the scene after when they build the 1st golden enclave was SO powerful. It was hard, tiring work that took many people, but thanks to everyone's efforts they built something sustainable and for everyone. Something we could absolutely do in real life, in a manner of speaking, but it's so hard to uproot the foundations of corruption and it will have far reaching consequences when we do.
My life goal now is to write something that makes y'all feel the same way as y'all feel this book 😂 ...might take a long time ☺️
Me too
That’s my goal too. And it probably will take a long time too.
This is the best case of "oh shit i wish i came up with this" it sounds amazing i might pick up the books even if ive already had them sumarised from you
Finished this book yesterday and suffering from severe book hangover. Had to find a youtube podcast about it to get over my feels because no one around me reads!! 😤😤 i thought 1.5 hours was way too long a commentary but.. it was the perfect way to get over my feels so thank you!!
I'ts going to be so hard to find another series that can convey the emotions this book created in me! It is truly stunning!
Almost dropped the book spoiler
Because I though the sex scene was so out of place especially since she was suppose to be in love with him . These scenes felt out of place
I just finished the book and came here to rewatch the video because I had too many thoughts and no one to scream them at XD
I liked the book while I was reading it, even though I missed an end point/goal the book was moving towards. However, I don't think it's a great ending to the first two books. The first one is about "things are easier when we work together", or, as I like to call it "friendship is magic". The second one is the same, but even better. And the third one... It falls flat for me. Not as an individual book, but as an ending to what I expected to be a "frienship is magic, especially in dark times" trilogy. Also, at least 20% of this book could have been cut and the book would be better for it.
You guys....are awesome. I just completed the trilogy so I could watch the review and its just as wonderful as you've described it...or dare I say....Maria's acting took the last act to a whole new level, even better than the book.
I found your channel when you did the Last Graduate review and have loved everything you posted… I’m a huge Novik fan and you guys word all my reasons to live her books so articulately!
I literally teared up again listening to Maria talking about the 3rd act! 😅
This whole series sounds so good! You guys keep making me add books to my reading list and I love you for it!
PS: I totally get Maria and Breaking Bad. Don't think I could ever re-watch it. I appreciate it as a great show, but the headspace it puts me in is not happy. Call me basic, but I need a happy end or some hope in the books/shows I read/watch.
I just finished my second read of the book. So freaking beautiful
Enjoyed the book and found your comments spot-on! I wonder If her origins writing fan-fiction leads to introspection scenes Will has a wee bit of issue with.? Also, Novik nailed the first person narrative throughout the series. As El grows the narrative voice reinforces that for the reader. Great channel guys!
I just want to say thank you, I just finished the book last night, so emotionally gone and so listening to you guys speaking about it is helping me cope
would you ever consider doing an episode on a classic like lord of the rings or perhaps a manga like Witch Hat Atelier ( an adorable story about a girl becoming a magical apprentice to an old wizard in a very atmospheric casual magical time )
Yes!!! So excited to see you review this
I thought it was bold to have a hero who is not monogamous with her one true tragic love, and given that the series was written partially as a Harry Potter reaction and everyone hated the “then you marry your high school boyfriend” epilogue there it made sense to try to do something different. That said I felt like I more supported El/Liesel then shipped El/Liesel, if that makes sense. I’ve also noticed that among my friends, the people who listened on audiobook on average tended to be a little bit more fed up with El’s introspection than the people who read in text, because the text readers were all skimming whenever she got really navel-gazey
Loved the book. You could really feel the character's jet lag and exhaustion throughout. However, we listened to the audiobook while on a road trip. Do not recommend things that make you feel jetlagged and exhausted on long road trips.
Loved your podcast! It's wonderful to share the excitement of reading this series. For me, this third book missed the mark a bit with its lack of monster fighting/showing off El's growing powers and unfortunate addition of the relationship between El and Liesel. I felt like it cheapened the love between El and Orion, which was one of El's primary motivators. Ultimately, the great reveals bumped this one up to a 3/5 for me. Thanks again for the discussion!
just finished the book, and after crying a little bit, i came here.
I was a little disappointed in this book. I felt like it suffered from a little bit of the same issues that plagued the last hunger games book and even the last Harry Potter book. When a relatively contained setting is blown open, and the stakes are increased as a result, sometimes it feels like the plot suffers? Or maybe it's the character arcs. Not to mention, I was disappointed in how little these exotic international settings were fleshed out. There was no flavor to speak of in the descriptions of the different countries. The Leisel stuff made me cringe, mainly because she was so unlikeable. Whereas poor Orion was just a miserable wreck. And the ending reminded me a bit of the last season of Castlevania where, spoiler alert, Trevor improbably defeats the final boss with a weapon he's been "subtly" putting together over the course of several episodes, out of parts he just happened to find 😅 I liked the stuff with El's family. Loved seeing Aadhya and Liu. Creepiness factor was enjoyably high. But definitely not what I would consider a super strong ending.
You guys have helped me create my xmas book wishlist 👍 this will be a tough one to follow but can't wait to see more!
I was not looking forward to this book coming out, I was looking forward to your podcast episode converting it instead.... actually that's been happening more and more lately
Right? They do such a good analysis and convey books in a fun and digestible way.
HEYY!!! Maria Mariaaaaaa.. Whom maybe reminds me of A WestSide Story! 😁
This series sounds like Harry Potter crossed with Madoka Magica.
I love your videos! I love you guys! Please harshly judge my first novel still in the works! I’d be honoured to hear your honest, brutal feedback!!!
Can someone explain to me what happens between Orion and El?
I'm not okay, I read the first 40 pages and I'm not okay
Also I wanna know who cried or if I'm just a wimp
Will, stop teasing us already. When are you going to make a review on A Song of Ice and Fire?
Cant watch thr video yet, just offering my support for u guys for the **algorhythm**. Want to read the book first :)
Will is vegetarian/vegan? Just interesting. Like yes ther have to change thing a lot , and vegetarian vegan is good but dont wanna miss fish and seafood.
And wow maria is such a vivid narrator :O
Poor orion :( And smart el playing the game for good.
And that , like her reaizing, holy crap, we are all gonna die and that people still betray each other. Still, it changes nothing. Maybe el has a bettr way what the hell she pulls there. Mayb i should help her, for now. Whatever that is. and talking latr something and may trying to make up and being annoyingly ... .
Honetly,istoppd brreaking bad with gus ther as gus is so interesting and orderly to balance walt but last season, thats just depressing.
Comment with nothing of importance