"Umm, I never abandoned my vehicle. He was paid to repaint the vehicle. He did not do a quality job, and it still needed additional work. Instead of finishing the job, he tried to steal my vehicle by claiming it was abandoned. He then 'sold' it to someone who can't agree on how much they paid, and there is also no paperwork of said 'sale'."
@@timothyhorner3152usually stupid isn't the case. Captured, corrupted or flat out negligent is usually the case. We've just resolved ourselves into " believing" their just numbskulls. I think that is FAR from the truth
"Sadly, I bet this case cost more than the value of the car." I know a few guys who would value their car far higher than the blue book cost, especially if they've had it since high school.
I had a CHERRY rust free cd5 Honda Accord in the late 2000s that I took IMMACULATE care of. Blue book was 2500 but it was arguably the cleanest one in my state. Similar ones just as clean and rust free sold for 6-7k back then. I was backed into right between the front and back seats, their insurance IMMEDIATELY totaled the car and would not budge off a $2000 payout. Boy oh boy I was absolutely raging mad
@@Seasniffer69 My dad’s truck was stolen. When it was recovered the only damage was to the ignition. The insurance company wanted to write it off. My dad wanted his truck, for what they were going to pay out he could never get a similar truck or even close to it. Insurance company folded and my dad prevailed. It was a good truck.
I had a heart attack and left my 1989 Jeep in front of my sons house. My son was a work, and a towing company hauled it off as abandoned. Finally called the cops and informed they had it towed. The cost of towing and charges for storage in excess of a thousand dollars I gave up. To sick from heart attack to fight these thieves.
I had a similar situation. I was driving a company car almost exclusively, so I loaned my car to my nephew, who drove it about 3-4 times per month. He only drove it on the days that he went out and his Camaro wouldn’t start. So during one of those times when it started every day for a couple of weeks, mine got towed. Councilman who turned it in said the car was obviously not drivable because it had stayed out in the street for two weeks. So I went up to the impound lot, paid them the $350, and drove it home. Neither the councilman, nor the police could understand that they had committed Grandtheft auto. We have this stupid law that says if a car is legally parked in a public place for 72 hours it can be towed. Including directly in front of your house, and your own driveway.
Let me understand this if I can: a man brings in his classic car, and usually these cars are more than just property, they are loved, and tells the shop to paint it. He pays for the paint job. But somehow the shop owner, who has failed to do the job correctly, decides that not only does he get to pocket the money for the job, but he gets to keep the car too. I can't think of any set of facts that would justify this double theft but a court of rational judges decided this was lawful. Thank God the Supreme Court reversed this obvious injustice. So the man is awarded a substantial amount of money but his next problem is getting paid and I hope he does. But what about the car? If the car is stolen, which is what I would call it, does he get the car back? On this show we have seen cars that have been missing for years and gone through several hands still get returned to the original owner. He should get his car and the money, just like the shop owner intended he would do.
That is what I think. Is the money in addition to the car he gets back? I can believe the worker only wanting to pay $3K, he knows what a bad paint job it has.
Forget the fines/etc. the shop should owe him, the shop owner should be arrested and sitting in jail for grand theft, because that's exactly what would happen if any random person stole a car parked on the side of the street and tried to sell it to someone else.
A friend of mine years ago was having a car restored. It was a 1968 Shelby GT500KR convertible. He had extensive records on the parts he supplied, a ton of photos, as well as extensive paperwork between him and the shop. He even knew the owner (or so he thought). As the work progressed the shop suddenly demanded a lot more money. Keep in mind the car itself was rust free, no accidents, etc., just strip it down to bare metal and repaint it and reassemble it. It took two years in court. My friend prevailed. The judge complimented my friend on his paperwork. It also turned out the shop had the car "sold" to two different people, even though he didn't own it. The shop tried putting a lean on the title and then take ownership. He was told by the judge he had two weeks to return the car, as is, as well as all the parts on the list. If one part was missing, he would be charged with theft, for each part. My friend had owned the car for decades but the whole two years soured him on it. He even offered to sell it to me, but I had to pass. He sold it to someone else he knew for fair market value at the time in the shape it was in, disassembled. It was put back together and ended up being a taken to Shelby SAAC shows, was judged Gold. It's been resold a few times. The car was one of the few 68 convertible Shelby's that year that were painted Yellow and was the one that was "missing" for a long time. We all knew where it was all the time we just kept our mouths shut. The shop owner who tried to steal the car went bankrupt right after my friend prevailed.
Granted, my car isn't anywhere unique and valuable like that but I have a 1993 Ford Probe SE with just 8500 miles in almost pristine condition. You're making me worried to bring it to a shop now lol.
I worked for an independent repair shop years ago. The owner used to play these games if anyone complained. Guy was a total criminal. After he was sued the 2nd time I had to get outta there. Just bad karma and it caught up with him later. He lost everything and never recovered.
A number of years ago I took my 280ZX to a shop for an engine rebuild. I was given a verbal estimate it would take 10-14 days. When 14 days came around I started calling and kept getting the runaround. A week later I showed up with another engine rebuild shop's owner and we loaded my then partially torn down engine up and towed my car to their shop. The original shop threatened to take me to court for the time he spent working on the partial teardown of the engine. I said go ahead and sue me. I never heard from him again, and the second shop did a great job of rebuilding that engine.
I had 1979 280 ZX, I had the in the shop for restore and restore was 80% paid, I told the shop manager that my father will pay for the final bill and pick it up once completed. When I came back from deployment, the car was gone. My dad never got a call or letters. I sued and lost. The manager and owner said they made many attempts to contact my father. My father is loyal and honest, never once I've heard him do wrong. They tried to make him look bad. This whole thing is a scam because the car sold to the owners nephew and to this day I see him and the car at car shows.
@@odbo_One By Federal law, a serving member of the US military's property can not be lien sold for unpaid storage fees. They could be fined a huge amount for doing so.
@@ostrich67 You can't repossess or lien sale a Military personnel's property while they were on deployment. This is why a lot of auto dealers and mortgage brokers don't like dealing with active duty military without incredibly high interest rates and fees, since they can't try to start legal action about any property until the service members gets back. If that guy was telling the truth about everything, including suing and losing, then it was because he didn't hire a lawyer that is familiar with the regulations surrounding active duty military.
I belong to a classic Mopar club. Some of our members are very wealthy. One member sent out his Superbird to be painted and again after more than 2 years the car was never finished or painted plus the auto body shop was going out of business. He had to sue to get his own car back, unfinished and lost the up front money. People are scum.
What makes no sense to me is how a shop can expect to get away with screwing over someone with such deep pockets that they WILL fight every step of the way. I can imagine doing that to a little old lady who can't hire a lawyer. But somebody who has a $100,000 car as a plaything probably has more money than sense and can afford all the lawyers. Those are not people to trivially piss off.
I notice the supreme court of virginia said the expert judge was wrong, but the amatuer juries were right. Dont worry the expert that made worse decisions than a jury of amatuers is still a judge, making many more brialliant decisions.
I remember once taking my car to a local shop to get it's oil changed, decided to wait at the local mall rather than go home. After I arrived at the mall, I watched my car drive into the car park, he ran over a gutter and was smoking in my car. I confronted the guy, phone recording in my pocket. I ended up getting the shop to, at their expense, replace my shocks, do a wheel balance and also pay for a detail.
This is how a guy stole a 1969 boss 429 from my dad and the judge just gave the guy the car because he was part of the hood ole boys club. Now the car is worth 400k
I am curious. When a judicial body makes such an obvious and egregious error in judgement, what corrective steps are taken to ensure the judge and or body is on notice for the error? It seems to me that our courts, appeals and circuit courts are overly burdened by serious errors that shouldn't be happening.
Well, that depends what you call a serious error. There's a huge difference between a serious, egregious action and a difference of opinion. But generally judges can be sanctioned or impeached
@@zacharyhenderson2902 If I listen to the video correctly. Steve said that the rulings where factually wrong by the appellate. Why did they reverse. On what basis did they reach their conclusions if the facts were wrong? And what is the corrective process for ensuring this error doesn't occur again. I mean if we do something wrong either at work or criminally there are corrective steps to put one on notice and to punish such actions.
I know people who went to change their addresses at the dmv. the dmv still sent their mails to the old addresses. bureaucracy and guaranteed salary are the most inducers of bad employees.
That’s why my mom went to using a P.O. Box when I grew up as my parents moved as when I grew up as are family grew or their pay got better and I followed suit when I went to college
People may be under the impression the DMV consolidates a person with a driver's license with vehicles they own But for addresses it's 2 separate requests one for the drivers license and one for all owned vehicles.
I'm a musician and years ago to help support myself, I filed mechanic's liens for typically small auto shops that didn't had neither the time nor desire to deal with the certified mail and all that stuff. You'd be surprised how many crooked shop owners are willing to use these laws to try to steal a cool car. Most of the cases I dealt with were honest abandonment cases. That does happen a lot. Anyway, in my state (at least back then), under these circumstances a car could be sold by an autoshop with no paperwork, and the law said that they could only sell it for what they had in it (materials and labor only, no storage fees unless they were a licensed storage facility, ie tow operator).
i have a 1966 2dr sedan Fairlane for the past 52 years garage kept it's treated as my child i am 78 years old, the older i get the less a life sentence means , shop owners read between these lines
I still have my 67 Camaro convertible Rally Sport , my first car, bought in 1975 for $500. because the points were melted. $3. and 42 cents later it ran like a new motor. You got me by one year.
The shop painted it twice, and still looked so bad it still needed to be done again? And then the shop owner decided to steal it... Sounds like he was hoping to mess it up enough to talk the guy into selling it but when he instead insisted on redoing the work the shop guy decided on a different, and illegal tactic. I'd like to know what shop just to make sure I never take a car there under any circumstance.
Or I'm thinking the guy did shoddy work or got into problems paying their bills for why they took this route and gave the car to the person they owed money too.
I was on a jury for a civil trial and I can say that Lehto is right about the jury being the finder of fact. The civil trial I was a juror for we found that some of the medical costs were clearly attributed to the accident but the rest we were hard pressed to find a direct enough connection as time was spent showing that they were typical for the sport the person's kids were in. The whole case ended up just being a question of which expenses were connected to the accident.
@@halbouma6720 the case I mentioned, I cannot say it was a clear case of someone being a con artist and more of a dispute over which medical bills were legitimately connected to the accident. Sometimes it's just a matter of perception and being able to justify why that perception is valid. The case I was a juror for I could see the possibility that there was a case to be made that if not wholely connected to the accident, that the accident exacerbated the frequency of visits. However, they chose to only try to convince us that the bills connected to the sport were connected to the accident. So we ended up giving them the costs of the first bills plus the cost of the sport physical but because the doctor obviously cleared the children for the sport, the rest of the bills were considered sport related.
Same thing happened to my late dad who passed in 2016. He left a 1910s with a painter in upstate NY then when he went to get it the guy said he junked it. My dad’s only recourse was asking the police to put an APB on the VIN which btw was only like 6 digits showing how old the vehicle was. I think it was a Buick with suicide doors. Unfortunately my stepmother had already discarded the title when I asked her about it so all I have is a nice photo of the vehicle. It was really nice and I’m sure someone is driving around with that stolen antique vehicle.
Steve, why doesn't the man get his car back? It would seem to me that since the shop owner converted the car wrongfully he was therefore unable to provide clear title and the original owner should get it back, the sale to the shop employee or any subsequent sales not withstanding.
Have a friend that went thru the same thing, during Vietnam war. I also bought a truck that had been left at a shop for over a year, abandoned, for 150 dollars, clear title and all. It was a pos.
The ultimate injustice will come when the shop refuses to pay the court order and files for bankruptcy. Reopens a few months to a year later under a new llc
Twenty plus years ago, I was working for a used car dealer in Southern Indiana. A couple of girls driving an old Camaro wanted to test drive a Jeep. They left the Camaro with us, and took off with the Jeep. By closing time, the Jeep had not returned. We told the police. Police in Gulfport Mississippi found the Jeep on the beach and arrested the girls. I went to Gulfport with a deputy sheriff and drove back the Jeep, the deputy brought back the girls. I never did hear what happened to the girls.
Body shops don't drive the cars off the lot. It goes by tow truck. But theft is theft. It may take years to do a body restoration. And it's up to owner of the vehicle to be satisfied with the final work. And must be signed off before being payed completely.
....I asked two courthouses about who to talk to about an abandoned vehicle. We bought a house, and were told they were coming back to get the car two years ago. Now I got a lead for who talk to. Thanks for the info.
Read your state's statute on abandoned vehicles. Can also ask the local cops and sheriff's on how your jurisdiction typically processes such situations. Sometimes if you get a knowledgeable DMV person might help, but that's a long shot unless you're in a small town.
Something else to be considered, and probably little known outside of storage companies near military bases, is that a serving member of the US's property can not be iien sold for unpaid storage fees. Originally this would only be in effect when stationed overseas, but now covers them if still in the US as well. This includes their car. Huge Federal fine. The military will not respond to requests for information on whether the person is still serving or what their current mailing address is, unless you are a financial company for which the government has a web page but only if you have the social security number, which is something a normal storage facility or impounding tow company would not have.
Getting SERIOUSLY tired of hearing about the mishandling of justice by lower courts nowadays. Thinking that series of courts needs an entire ROUTING of those who are seated and employed by them. ENTIRELY gutted is likely the due course of action
In the UK a family member had a classic car - in need of a lot of work on the engine to make roadworthy - stored in a rented garage. They didn’t need to get anything from the garage for a couple of years, but naturally kept up with the garage rent. However, when they were in a position to get the car fixed up they discovered the car had been stolen. They followed the law in reporting the theft (it was not insured as declared SORN - off the public road), and it was another year before the car was seen on the road. It went to Court to argue ownership, the guy had a hand written piece of plain paper as his “receipt” and had paid a bit of money getting the car restored. Even though the car had been stolen, this guy claimed he purchased it in good faith and the Judge deem the car was worth about £800 at the time it was stolen and so let the guy take full ownership of the vehicle and pay £800 minus a portion of his legal costs to my family member. The number plate alone had been worth £3000 but that was dismissed because it hadn’t been retained on a SORN vehicle each year. To this day they firmly believe the guy who won the vehicle in Court was the one who stole it as he apparently had family who lived near to where the garage was located.
There is a local, independent repair shop in my small city that has been stealing customers’ cars, through bogus mechanic’s liens for nearly two decades. The owner is well-known for doing it, but he, somehow, still gets plenty of business. He usually “steals” classic muscle cars, but has been known to grossly underquote repairs on more mundane vehicles, then hits the customer with an astronomically high final bill that he knows the customer won’t or can’t pay. He places a lien on the vehicle, eventually owns it, and then sells it. He tried to “steal” a 1970 Plymouth Cuda that was brought to his shop immediately after the car owner had the ‘Cuda painted at a local restoration shop. The ‘Cuda sat outside in the weather, at the repair shop for about 2 or 3 years, while the court case was running its course. He got his car back, but it now had some body damage, scratches, and new problems from sitting outside.
Something similar happened to me, I paid a local guy to paint a pickup. He told me he hadn't been feeling good. Unfortunately he never got the chance to start on it before he passed away. Family immediately took the property over. I never got the vehicle or my 3k down payment back. I should have sued them.
Sale or gift, you have to sign the title in Virginia. Even if he had legally claimed it he would have to get the title from the DMV and sign it over to his employee/co-conspirator. As a Virginian I rather enjoy hear the State using the words "under common law" in their decision. A surprising number of legal issues are not addressed by code or statute here in the Commonwealth, but rather are a matter of common law precedents. A legacy of having been an English colony.
I took my 93 Ranger in to have dye added to the oil to see if there was a leak or an engine issue. I go back the next day, they can't find my truck. Hours go by. Apparently they took my truck on a parts run, and it broke down. It's sitting on the side of I-95 in a different state! Took them a week to return my truck. I did get a nice apology. They put 600 miles on my truck. I was told the battery died, and that's why they abandoned my truck. I looked. Same Sears battery I had bought two years earlier. Never did get a straight story out of them.
I went through a similar scenario. I tried to have my 1980 Corvette restored. The shop owner said he could do everything and it would take 6 to 8 weeks. We agreed on a price and I said go ahead. Then, about every 2 weeks, something would come up and the price increased, but the timeframe never changed. After he adjusted the price twice I said I agreed to that price, but that was my cap. After 7 months I went and asked where we stood. He gave me an invoice for an additional $6,000 over what we agreed to, and the car still wasn't finished. He claimed he'd gone too deep to turn back and just started adding things without even calling me. It took me 6 years in court to resolve it, and the judge basically split it down the middle. We couldn't even bring up the fact that he'd been to court 18 times prior, with around half of those times being him trying to claim an "abandoned" vehicle. I'm sure he expected the same out of me. He's no longer in business now though, unless he just changed the name. One person can make a difference, it just may cost you almost everything you've got.
I bought my car at a police auction. It had been abandoned outside a mechanic shop. Towed it home and fixed it. Had to go through the process of getting a title and having the car inspected. Wasn't too bad and I'd do it again.
I own a 1967 Mercury Cougar (dark green/cream interior)....just watch me fight to get my car back! I've owned it since college. My husband has received multiple offers to buy it but he can't sell it because it pre-existed him and is still only in my name.
Great video. If I may make a suggestion you got to give the gentleman that's 4/0 with the submissions. One of your legendary garments from the off camera rack or a signed copy of one of your books. I think your statement that this gentleman has his finger on the pulse of this channel is spot on. Steve you're a legend and my guy Ross awesome 👍
As a custom car shop owner this hits home. Always 2 sides to any story like you said. I could have easily been handled differently but I believe someone wanted to steal a car. Neat stuff. Always enjoy your stories. Btw love the Cobra build. -Spanky
You do your own automotive painting? Thats great if you have a fully equipped automotive paint shop plus the years of experience necessary to achieve a high-quality finish to a valuable collectable car. But ordinary car owners don't have any of that and need to hire professionals.
@@hbarcat A "High Quality Finish" on a "collector" car is NOT factory (unless it's a Rolls or similar). All factory cars of the "60's-70's have SOME level of "orange peel" in the paint. It's an artifact of the high speed paint process in the factory.
My question is who ended up with the car was it returned to the original owner as well as judgement or are they not allowed to turn around the sale as well, for improper procedure used to gain ownership
I was -or still am, involved in a similar situation. My 2022 Hyundai EV has been in and out of the dealership and several visits from Roadside assist due to 12v battery issues which are the subject of an international recall. Anyway one particular morning at the start of May the 12v battery was dead (have replaced 3 times in the last year under warranty). I decided to buy a new battery from roadside assist. After installing it he tested it and said it is not charging, so told him to take it out and I'll have it towed to the dealer. After a cpl days the dealer rang and said they need my permission to do more testing (no mention of a charge for this) so I said OK if you want to. They claimed that despite the recall for this exact same problem, that the cause was parasitic draw by equipment installed in the car. I dropped of my other car for a log book service and picked up and drove home in this car. They send me a bill for $1300 for diagnosis only - there was no fix other than they did a software update as per the recall notice. I paid for the logbook service but told them I wasn't paying for any diagnostic work carried out. They refused to let me pick up the car till I paid the $1300 for the first car. Several weeks later they sent me an email saying that as of July 8th they were going to impose a $50/day parking fee and after 1 month they were going to have the vehicle removed to storage under the Unclaimed Goods Act. They don't realize that I went to the dealership with my spare key and picked it up 7 weeks ago. I still haven't told them I already have it .
I know a guitar repair shop with a dozen guitars dropped off for repair thirty plus years ago and were never claimed. The shop owner refuses to sell them just in case they come back!
If you just left it there and weren't staying at the hotel, yes. If you booked a room or paid to park it there (hotels near airports do this), then you have a contract preventing it.
Depends on where you live. Not in my county but in the next one, yes. If the business calls the police, they chalk the wheel. If the chalk does not move in 24 hours the businesses are allowed to remove it. A week later they can start to "claim" and that is about a 30-45 day process here.
You would think that there would also be severe penalties handed down for the illegal transaction in the alleged sale of the vehicle.? There seemed to be nothing included as to what the State action may have been concerning the undocumented transfer from shop owner to employee.? So where is this auto???
How this instance comes across to me is the customer continued complaining not because something was wrong, but because they didn't have anyone to go collect the car and store it for an unspecified amount of time while the customer was dealing with other issues. Customer ran out of money and couldn't pay the bill, but rather than be embarrassed about their social status they were intending to make the shop store the car for free. Ran a repair shop for 20+ years. On our work order, at the bottom, was a bit of "fine print" in bright red stating that 1: the work order was an expressed lien against the vehicle, 2: Any time at the shop over 90 days had to be mutually agreed (write a second W.O. and attach it), and 3: That the shop had expressed authority to operate the vehicle. That 3rd part intentionally did not include the words "For the purposes of testing" because my techs still had to drive the car into the repair bay. My insurance wouldn't cover damage to the vehicle if it was just being moved on the lot... So when I had a new guy crush the rear door of a durango on the doorframe of my building, my insurance told me to eff-off. As to seizing customers vehicles, I was required to send the cars to auction, pay the auction fee and hope that the return would cover whatever I was out already on the project. I was the guy who would work on the cars that were barely breathing for the folks who couldn't really afford a replacement. In many cases, I never bothered with claiming ownership. I'd just call the county and have them hauled off as abandoned.
This isn't really the same theme of the story that I'm shop owner, and I was once sued by somebody about something that broke on their car that I told them was going to break if they didn't get it fixed but they decided not to fix it. So a small claims and while we were telling the judge our perspective Stories the judge decided that the car was old so it was going to break anyway so I wasn't found liable. That's not what I argued at all. What I told the judge was I told him to fix X he decided not to fix X when X broke that's what left him stranded on the side of the road. The judge completely ignored that just decided that the car was old so It was going to break anyway and found in my favor. Once I realized where he was going with the story but was going to rule in my favorite I just shut up, facts didn't matter What mattered was what the judge is perception of the age of the car was. The age of the car had nothing to do with it but in the end I won.
Even if you were to throw everything else out, the one sticking point that I would have as a juror on this case is that the car's owner paid for the job in advance. The shop owner absolutely knew that, and at some point had to have thought to himself that no one is ever going to pay for a car to be repaired , amd then just up and abandon the car, thereby forfeiting every penny invested in the car. No one is ever going to do that. If I was presiding over this case, the penalty would be simple... 1) Return the car to the owner, regardless of what it costs you to get it back. 2) Pay someone else, of the owner's choice of course, to paint the car to the owner's satisfaction, regardless of what it costs you. 3) You get to pay for all his court costs and attorney's fees. 4) I'm going to come up with a ridiculous amount of money for you to pay to the owner, and then I'm going to award him triple damages... A) For his inconvenience and mental distress. B) Just because I can. C) To teach you a lesson. And, D) Just because I can. So Ordered.
I had a car, "converted", by a shop. They kept putting me off for the repairs and one day the shop was closed and my car was gone, along with all the other cars. Never tracked it down.
I once read of a case (criminal) where a critical element of the crime was knowing that the contraband was Schedule I or II narcotics. The government showed that a courier knew that a suitcase contained some sort of contraband but provided not even the tiniest piece of evidence the courier knew the suitcase contained narcotics. The Appellate Court scoured the evidence admitted at trial and couldn’t find anything even a coconspirator saying the courier said “yup this is narco, smack, horse, blow, etc.” (Or evidence the courier knew he’d delivered drugs for the same outfit.) The drug trafficking conviction had to be overturned because the Gov failed to prove a necessary element of knowingly trafficking drugs. I’m sure everyone who testified simply assumed it was obvious … It could’ve been fake Rolexes, stolen diamonds, secret business info, … “We want you to deliver this to XYZ address, don’t open it & you’ll get X$.” Courier: “got it. will do.”
I wish like to make a comment about a similar thing. 2002-3 I had a guy drop a vehicle "no start" condition. After about 2 and 1/2 minutes I diagnosed it was overheated and smoked the rings requiring a rebuild or a replacement. Gave several estimates for the work and the customer requested 8 weeks to get the money to which I had no problem. After the work was done he never came to pay several certified letters later still no response. So I put a mechanics lein and over a year later I was awarded legal possession. Once the customer got the notification from D.O.T. he decided he wanted it back to which I was willing to return it for the cost of the repairs and I went easy on storage only 6 months instead of the actual time which was beyond double. Went to court (bench trial) and literally 15 minutes later the judge ruled in my favor and instead of picking up the car and paying for it he ended up also having to pay court costs my legal fees and I believe I was awarded additional compensation for my time dealing with the summons.
Thanks for explaining the process. A jury has a job and if the judgement is thrown out, should they not poll the jury as part of the appeal? Seems logical.
Canadian Robot Lady: Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. Me: I did that. The park ranger yelled at me and told me to quit stepping on the plants and get back on the damn trail.
My advice to vehicle owners of both collector vehicles and daily drivers is: investigate prospective garages and mechanics, in this internet age you can dig up dirt on anyone that has questionable business ethics. Get multiple estimates and just because you have had a "good last experience" with a shop does not mean that they can't backslide; stay vigilant, be persistent. I have personally had numerous negative experiences with mechanics and their shops. Set expectations, get it in writing when the work will get done, write down the mileage of you vehicle the second it leaves your possession and take photos of the odometer also the vehicle to show condition when dropped off. There are many honorable mechanics and shops, however, there are also countless lying, scamming scumbags out there to. Caveat emptor!
"Umm, I never abandoned my vehicle. He was paid to repaint the vehicle. He did not do a quality job, and it still needed additional work. Instead of finishing the job, he tried to steal my vehicle by claiming it was abandoned. He then 'sold' it to someone who can't agree on how much they paid, and there is also no paperwork of said 'sale'."
That is car theft
Had the same thing happen to a friend.
@@stevematson4808 no it’s conversion. Source? This video.
@@kerbo5918 I don't think the car's owner cares that it was converted and not stolen. The result is the same, he doesn't have his car.
@@stevematson4808 from a criminal perspective it was probably embezzlement.
I don’t know what the court of appeals was thinking. Clearly the car was never abandoned.
I have abandoned a Car in the past, and I agree with you 1000%.
must have been some heavy drinking involved
Judges can be stupid also
In my experience with the courts, I absolutely believe most judges are being bribed.
@@timothyhorner3152usually stupid isn't the case. Captured, corrupted or flat out negligent is usually the case. We've just resolved ourselves into " believing" their just numbskulls. I think that is FAR from the truth
The system deals out justice so slowly, but will convict people who did nothing wrong in a heartbeat.
That "system" is your fellow man.
@@UncleKennysPlace Yes. Sadly.
'It's better to jail 10 innocent people than let 1 guilty one go free' seems to be the philosophy in our 'injustice' system sadly
@@coolcatmeow77 It's better to get fees and fines from 10 innocent men than to not get fees and fines from one guilty man.
@@Daves_Not_Here_Man_76the new god is money, not the Lord.
Unfortunate times ahead
"Sadly, I bet this case cost more than the value of the car." I know a few guys who would value their car far higher than the blue book cost, especially if they've had it since high school.
I had a CHERRY rust free cd5 Honda Accord in the late 2000s that I took IMMACULATE care of. Blue book was 2500 but it was arguably the cleanest one in my state.
Similar ones just as clean and rust free sold for 6-7k back then.
I was backed into right between the front and back seats, their insurance IMMEDIATELY totaled the car and would not budge off a $2000 payout.
Boy oh boy I was absolutely raging mad
@@Seasniffer69 My dad’s truck was stolen. When it was recovered the only damage was to the ignition. The insurance company wanted to write it off. My dad wanted his truck, for what they were going to pay out he could never get a similar truck or even close to it. Insurance company folded and my dad prevailed. It was a good truck.
I had a heart attack and left my 1989 Jeep in front of my sons house. My son was a work, and a towing company hauled it off as abandoned. Finally called the cops and informed they had it towed. The cost of towing and charges for storage in excess of a thousand dollars I gave up. To sick from heart attack to fight these thieves.
Call the local TV news station. They usually have an investigative reporting segment.
They like to steal jeeps too. Towing company stole my sisters mustang and hid it for a year before admitting to having it.
I would be tempted to get door magnets for my next car that read, "My last car was stolen by the [town] police."
I had a similar situation. I was driving a company car almost exclusively, so I loaned my car to my nephew, who drove it about 3-4 times per month. He only drove it on the days that he went out and his Camaro wouldn’t start. So during one of those times when it started every day for a couple of weeks, mine got towed. Councilman who turned it in said the car was obviously not drivable because it had stayed out in the street for two weeks. So I went up to the impound lot, paid them the $350, and drove it home. Neither the councilman, nor the police could understand that they had committed Grandtheft auto. We have this stupid law that says if a car is legally parked in a public place for 72 hours it can be towed. Including directly in front of your house, and your own driveway.
So, how long was it sitting on the street before they towed it?
If I was seated on the jury the first question I would ask myself is why a guy would abandon a $78,000 Mustang that he was having repainted?
And also, he had already paid for the painting!
I believe Mercedes is the accurate name of the car
@@user-gu2yy6kq9y The video said a 1970 Ford Mustang.
Let me understand this if I can: a man brings in his classic car, and usually these cars are more than just property, they are loved, and tells the shop to paint it. He pays for the paint job. But somehow the shop owner, who has failed to do the job correctly, decides that not only does he get to pocket the money for the job, but he gets to keep the car too. I can't think of any set of facts that would justify this double theft but a court of rational judges decided this was lawful. Thank God the Supreme Court reversed this obvious injustice. So the man is awarded a substantial amount of money but his next problem is getting paid and I hope he does. But what about the car? If the car is stolen, which is what I would call it, does he get the car back? On this show we have seen cars that have been missing for years and gone through several hands still get returned to the original owner. He should get his car and the money, just like the shop owner intended he would do.
That is what I think. Is the money in addition to the car he gets back? I can believe the worker only wanting to pay $3K, he knows what a bad paint job it has.
Forget the fines/etc. the shop should owe him, the shop owner should be arrested and sitting in jail for grand theft, because that's exactly what would happen if any random person stole a car parked on the side of the street and tried to sell it to someone else.
Steve in new zealand we have a but of law that lets you claim a judgement from the person’s assets
@@robertsmith2956 He was probably the painter !!
He totally should take the money and go buy another car that's not a mustang. Cuz they are bad.
A friend of mine years ago was having a car restored. It was a 1968 Shelby GT500KR convertible. He had extensive records on the parts he supplied, a ton of photos, as well as extensive paperwork between him and the shop. He even knew the owner (or so he thought). As the work progressed the shop suddenly demanded a lot more money. Keep in mind the car itself was rust free, no accidents, etc., just strip it down to bare metal and repaint it and reassemble it. It took two years in court. My friend prevailed. The judge complimented my friend on his paperwork. It also turned out the shop had the car "sold" to two different people, even though he didn't own it. The shop tried putting a lean on the title and then take ownership. He was told by the judge he had two weeks to return the car, as is, as well as all the parts on the list. If one part was missing, he would be charged with theft, for each part. My friend had owned the car for decades but the whole two years soured him on it. He even offered to sell it to me, but I had to pass. He sold it to someone else he knew for fair market value at the time in the shape it was in, disassembled. It was put back together and ended up being a taken to Shelby SAAC shows, was judged Gold. It's been resold a few times. The car was one of the few 68 convertible Shelby's that year that were painted Yellow and was the one that was "missing" for a long time. We all knew where it was all the time we just kept our mouths shut. The shop owner who tried to steal the car went bankrupt right after my friend prevailed.
The unfortunate thing is all it did was dissolve his LLc and he immediately opened a new shop with a new LLc
That car is priceless to a lot of Ponyheads.
Granted, my car isn't anywhere unique and valuable like that but I have a 1993 Ford Probe SE with just 8500 miles in almost pristine condition. You're making me worried to bring it to a shop now lol.
I worked for an independent repair shop years ago. The owner used to play these games if anyone complained. Guy was a total criminal. After he was sued the 2nd time I had to get outta there. Just bad karma and it caught up with him later. He lost everything and never recovered.
Shop owner could get hurt, depending on who he ripped off
"What do you mean this car belongs to John Wick?"
"Yeah, and we messed up his dog too!"
people fall down stairs all the time😉
So if anything is left for 48 hours i can take it with the abandonment process? Hmmmm ….
He probably has friends in the sheriffs office
Probably not. For some reason we let Criminals convince us hurting them was wrong. Nice thought though.
It's called stealing, and who would go get work done at his shop now. He can't be trusted
This is why I do all my own work.
How in the name of all that's holy did the shop owner ever prevail in the court of appeals? Unbelievable.
Payoff's
A number of years ago I took my 280ZX to a shop for an engine rebuild. I was given a verbal estimate it would take 10-14 days. When 14 days came around I started calling and kept getting the runaround. A week later I showed up with another engine rebuild shop's owner and we loaded my then partially torn down engine up and towed my car to their shop. The original shop threatened to take me to court for the time he spent working on the partial teardown of the engine. I said go ahead and sue me. I never heard from him again, and the second shop did a great job of rebuilding that engine.
I had 1979 280 ZX, I had the in the shop for restore and restore was 80% paid, I told the shop manager that my father will pay for the final bill and pick it up once completed. When I came back from deployment, the car was gone. My dad never got a call or letters. I sued and lost. The manager and owner said they made many attempts to contact my father. My father is loyal and honest, never once I've heard him do wrong. They tried to make him look bad. This whole thing is a scam because the car sold to the owners nephew and to this day I see him and the car at car shows.
@@odbo_One That sucks.
@@odbo_One By Federal law, a serving member of the US military's property can not be lien sold for unpaid storage fees. They could be fined a huge amount for doing so.
@@ostrich67 You can't repossess or lien sale a Military personnel's property while they were on deployment. This is why a lot of auto dealers and mortgage brokers don't like dealing with active duty military without incredibly high interest rates and fees, since they can't try to start legal action about any property until the service members gets back.
If that guy was telling the truth about everything, including suing and losing, then it was because he didn't hire a lawyer that is familiar with the regulations surrounding active duty military.
I belong to a classic Mopar club. Some of our members are very wealthy. One member sent out his Superbird to be painted and again after more than 2 years the car was never finished or painted plus the auto body shop was going out of business. He had to sue to get his own car back, unfinished and lost the up front money. People are scum.
What makes no sense to me is how a shop can expect to get away with screwing over someone with such deep pockets that they WILL fight every step of the way. I can imagine doing that to a little old lady who can't hire a lawyer. But somebody who has a $100,000 car as a plaything probably has more money than sense and can afford all the lawyers. Those are not people to trivially piss off.
The paint shop should be guilty of theft and be charged with same for this shameful shenanigan.
I notice the supreme court of virginia said the expert judge was wrong, but the amatuer juries were right. Dont worry the expert that made worse decisions than a jury of amatuers is still a judge, making many more brialliant decisions.
The court of appeals cases are usually heard by three judges.
@@genespell4340so your saying 3 experts with all their education and experience did worse than 12 amatuer jurors. Sounds about right.
The only distinction between professionals and amateurs is one gets paid to do the job. It is no bearing on their competency.
I remember once taking my car to a local shop to get it's oil changed, decided to wait at the local mall rather than go home. After I arrived at the mall, I watched my car drive into the car park, he ran over a gutter and was smoking in my car. I confronted the guy, phone recording in my pocket. I ended up getting the shop to, at their expense, replace my shocks, do a wheel balance and also pay for a detail.
Sucks that a repeat customer was given bad service then tried to steal the vehicle.
It's sad. If the shop had fixed the first paint job, that customer would still be a customer because the shop made it right.
This is how a guy stole a 1969 boss 429 from my dad and the judge just gave the guy the car because he was part of the hood ole boys club. Now the car is worth 400k
The 99% of judges that are garbage make the 1% that aren't look bad
Did your daddy cry?
Most judges are corrupt beyond measure.
I would just have to hope they didn’t catch me burning that car
@@justicedemocrat9357 and next month you celebrate your 10th birthday.
I am curious. When a judicial body makes such an obvious and egregious error in judgement, what corrective steps are taken to ensure the judge and or body is on notice for the error? It seems to me that our courts, appeals and circuit courts are overly burdened by serious errors that shouldn't be happening.
Well, that depends what you call a serious error. There's a huge difference between a serious, egregious action and a difference of opinion. But generally judges can be sanctioned or impeached
@@zacharyhenderson2902 If I listen to the video correctly. Steve said that the rulings where factually wrong by the appellate. Why did they reverse. On what basis did they reach their conclusions if the facts were wrong? And what is the corrective process for ensuring this error doesn't occur again. I mean if we do something wrong either at work or criminally there are corrective steps to put one on notice and to punish such actions.
Ha! I mentioned Nick earlier at lunch and here he is being cited on Lehto's Law. Small world, with occasional synchronicity.
I know people who went to change their addresses at the dmv. the dmv still sent their mails to the old addresses. bureaucracy and guaranteed salary are the most inducers of bad employees.
I have seen worse in Large companies, an example was when my Dad died, it took Ma Bell, 17 years to switch the account over to my Mom's name.
That’s why my mom went to using a P.O. Box when I grew up as my parents moved as when I grew up as are family grew or their pay got better and I followed suit when I went to college
People may be under the impression the DMV consolidates a person with a driver's license with vehicles they own
But for addresses it's 2 separate requests one for the drivers license and one for all owned vehicles.
I'm a musician and years ago to help support myself, I filed mechanic's liens for typically small auto shops that didn't had neither the time nor desire to deal with the certified mail and all that stuff. You'd be surprised how many crooked shop owners are willing to use these laws to try to steal a cool car. Most of the cases I dealt with were honest abandonment cases. That does happen a lot. Anyway, in my state (at least back then), under these circumstances a car could be sold by an autoshop with no paperwork, and the law said that they could only sell it for what they had in it (materials and labor only, no storage fees unless they were a licensed storage facility, ie tow operator).
And suddenly I remember why I'm so paranoid about going to mechanics.
i have a 1966 2dr sedan Fairlane for the past 52 years garage kept it's treated as my child i am 78 years old, the older i get the less a life sentence means , shop owners read between these lines
I still have my 67 Camaro convertible Rally Sport , my first car, bought in 1975 for $500. because the points were melted. $3. and 42 cents later it ran like a new motor. You got me by one year.
How did the Appellate Court find that the procedure was properly followed if no notice of revocation of permission was sent to the original owner?
The shop painted it twice, and still looked so bad it still needed to be done again? And then the shop owner decided to steal it... Sounds like he was hoping to mess it up enough to talk the guy into selling it but when he instead insisted on redoing the work the shop guy decided on a different, and illegal tactic. I'd like to know what shop just to make sure I never take a car there under any circumstance.
Probably just needed wet sand and buff.
Or I'm thinking the guy did shoddy work or got into problems paying their bills for why they took this route and gave the car to the person they owed money too.
I was on a jury for a civil trial and I can say that Lehto is right about the jury being the finder of fact. The civil trial I was a juror for we found that some of the medical costs were clearly attributed to the accident but the rest we were hard pressed to find a direct enough connection as time was spent showing that they were typical for the sport the person's kids were in. The whole case ended up just being a question of which expenses were connected to the accident.
Yeah, at least the jury properly determined who the con artist was in this case.
@@halbouma6720 the case I mentioned, I cannot say it was a clear case of someone being a con artist and more of a dispute over which medical bills were legitimately connected to the accident. Sometimes it's just a matter of perception and being able to justify why that perception is valid. The case I was a juror for I could see the possibility that there was a case to be made that if not wholely connected to the accident, that the accident exacerbated the frequency of visits. However, they chose to only try to convince us that the bills connected to the sport were connected to the accident. So we ended up giving them the costs of the first bills plus the cost of the sport physical but because the doctor obviously cleared the children for the sport, the rest of the bills were considered sport related.
Same thing happened to my late dad who passed in 2016. He left a 1910s with a painter in upstate NY then when he went to get it the guy said he junked it. My dad’s only recourse was asking the police to put an APB on the VIN which btw was only like 6 digits showing how old the vehicle was. I think it was a Buick with suicide doors. Unfortunately my stepmother had already discarded the title when I asked her about it so all I have is a nice photo of the vehicle. It was really nice and I’m sure someone is driving around with that stolen antique vehicle.
Steve, why doesn't the man get his car back? It would seem to me that since the shop owner converted the car wrongfully he was therefore unable to provide clear title and the original owner should get it back, the sale to the shop employee or any subsequent sales not withstanding.
Have a friend that went thru the same thing, during Vietnam war. I also bought a truck that had been left at a shop for over a year, abandoned, for 150 dollars, clear title and all. It was a pos.
The ultimate injustice will come when the shop refuses to pay the court order and files for bankruptcy. Reopens a few months to a year later under a new llc
Twenty plus years ago, I was working for a used car dealer in Southern Indiana. A couple of girls driving an old Camaro wanted to test drive a Jeep. They left the Camaro with us, and took off with the Jeep. By closing time, the Jeep had not returned. We told the police. Police in Gulfport Mississippi found the Jeep on the beach and arrested the girls. I went to Gulfport with a deputy sheriff and drove back the Jeep, the deputy brought back the girls. I never did hear what happened to the girls.
Body shops don't drive the cars off the lot. It goes by tow truck. But theft is theft. It may take years to do a body restoration. And it's up to owner of the vehicle to be satisfied with the final work. And must be signed off before being payed completely.
My mechanic had my 67 Imperial for several months, he new I wasn't in a hurry and he's very busy. Had no issues getting it back
....I asked two courthouses about who to talk to about an abandoned vehicle. We bought a house, and were told they were coming back to get the car two years ago.
Now I got a lead for who talk to. Thanks for the info.
Read your state's statute on abandoned vehicles. Can also ask the local cops and sheriff's on how your jurisdiction typically processes such situations. Sometimes if you get a knowledgeable DMV person might help, but that's a long shot unless you're in a small town.
The shop owner has his phone number, its car theft.
well the garage guys rep is shot
Love this channel. Really helps me understand our legal system on another level.
Something else to be considered, and probably little known outside of storage companies near military bases, is that a serving member of the US's property can not be iien sold for unpaid storage fees. Originally this would only be in effect when stationed overseas, but now covers them if still in the US as well. This includes their car. Huge Federal fine.
The military will not respond to requests for information on whether the person is still serving or what their current mailing address is, unless you are a financial company for which the government has a web page but only if you have the social security number, which is something a normal storage facility or impounding tow company would not have.
OMG I don't care.
@@justicedemocrat9357then why read it? move on.
At least that's one thing the federal government has done for them.Not a good track record though.
Getting SERIOUSLY tired of hearing about the mishandling of justice by lower courts nowadays. Thinking that series of courts needs an entire ROUTING of those who are seated and employed by them. ENTIRELY gutted is likely the due course of action
Steve I like your "pizza is not a crime" bumper sticker.
I am actually eating deep dish pizza rite now
Thank you Steve. This is quite the interesting article.
In the UK a family member had a classic car - in need of a lot of work on the engine to make roadworthy - stored in a rented garage. They didn’t need to get anything from the garage for a couple of years, but naturally kept up with the garage rent. However, when they were in a position to get the car fixed up they discovered the car had been stolen. They followed the law in reporting the theft (it was not insured as declared SORN - off the public road), and it was another year before the car was seen on the road. It went to Court to argue ownership, the guy had a hand written piece of plain paper as his “receipt” and had paid a bit of money getting the car restored. Even though the car had been stolen, this guy claimed he purchased it in good faith and the Judge deem the car was worth about £800 at the time it was stolen and so let the guy take full ownership of the vehicle and pay £800 minus a portion of his legal costs to my family member. The number plate alone had been worth £3000 but that was dismissed because it hadn’t been retained on a SORN vehicle each year. To this day they firmly believe the guy who won the vehicle in Court was the one who stole it as he apparently had family who lived near to where the garage was located.
LACK OF LEGAL PAPER WORK EVEN WITH DMV OF OWNERSHIP !...
There is a local, independent repair shop in my small city that has been stealing customers’ cars, through bogus mechanic’s liens for nearly two decades. The owner is well-known for doing it, but he, somehow, still gets plenty of business. He usually “steals” classic muscle cars, but has been known to grossly underquote repairs on more mundane vehicles, then hits the customer with an astronomically high final bill that he knows the customer won’t or can’t pay. He places a lien on the vehicle, eventually owns it, and then sells it.
He tried to “steal” a 1970 Plymouth Cuda that was brought to his shop immediately after the car owner had the ‘Cuda painted at a local restoration shop. The ‘Cuda sat outside in the weather, at the repair shop for about 2 or 3 years, while the court case was running its course. He got his car back, but it now had some body damage, scratches, and new problems from sitting outside.
Okay the guy gets his compensatory damages but where is the car? He should get his car back!
His car is at my house.
Ben - Left of Steve's left bicep.
A shady body shop? I am stunned!
Something similar happened to me, I paid a local guy to paint a pickup. He told me he hadn't been feeling good. Unfortunately he never got the chance to start on it before he passed away.
Family immediately took the property over. I never got the vehicle or my 3k down payment back. I should have sued them.
Sale or gift, you have to sign the title in Virginia. Even if he had legally claimed it he would have to get the title from the DMV and sign it over to his employee/co-conspirator.
As a Virginian I rather enjoy hear the State using the words "under common law" in their decision. A surprising number of legal issues are not addressed by code or statute here in the Commonwealth, but rather are a matter of common law precedents. A legacy of having been an English colony.
Yeah, sounds like the shop was hinky to me.
Is "hinky" a synonym for criminal?
@@maxspeed57 Yup.
“I don't want you guys using words with no meaning. I'm taking the stairs!”
@@chrismn601Tommy Lee Jones character in "The Fugitive"
Hope that owner loses his shop. This was blatant theft
I enjoyed the explanation of the process involved in the court
I took my 93 Ranger in to have dye added to the oil to see if there was a leak or an engine issue. I go back the next day, they can't find my truck. Hours go by.
Apparently they took my truck on a parts run, and it broke down. It's sitting on the side of I-95 in a different state! Took them a week to return my truck. I did get a nice apology. They put 600 miles on my truck. I was told the battery died, and that's why they abandoned my truck. I looked. Same Sears battery I had bought two years earlier. Never did get a straight story out of them.
I went through a similar scenario. I tried to have my 1980 Corvette restored. The shop owner said he could do everything and it would take 6 to 8 weeks. We agreed on a price and I said go ahead. Then, about every 2 weeks, something would come up and the price increased, but the timeframe never changed. After he adjusted the price twice I said I agreed to that price, but that was my cap. After 7 months I went and asked where we stood. He gave me an invoice for an additional $6,000 over what we agreed to, and the car still wasn't finished. He claimed he'd gone too deep to turn back and just started adding things without even calling me. It took me 6 years in court to resolve it, and the judge basically split it down the middle. We couldn't even bring up the fact that he'd been to court 18 times prior, with around half of those times being him trying to claim an "abandoned" vehicle. I'm sure he expected the same out of me. He's no longer in business now though, unless he just changed the name. One person can make a difference, it just may cost you almost everything you've got.
Thanks Steve. Enjoyed the interaction on the live sidebar.
I bought my car at a police auction. It had been abandoned outside a mechanic shop. Towed it home and fixed it. Had to go through the process of getting a title and having the car inspected. Wasn't too bad and I'd do it again.
how does one participate in a police auction?
I own a 1967 Mercury Cougar (dark green/cream interior)....just watch me fight to get my car back! I've owned it since college. My husband has received multiple offers to buy it but he can't sell it because it pre-existed him and is still only in my name.
One of my favorite cars!
Lot of shops like this one out there.
Great video. If I may make a suggestion you got to give the gentleman that's 4/0 with the submissions. One of your legendary garments from the off camera rack or a signed copy of one of your books. I think your statement that this gentleman has his finger on the pulse of this channel is spot on. Steve you're a legend and my guy Ross awesome 👍
As a custom car shop owner this hits home. Always 2 sides to any story like you said. I could have easily been handled differently but I believe someone wanted to steal a car. Neat stuff. Always enjoy your stories. Btw love the Cobra build.
-Spanky
Could the winner of the case get attorney's fee's paid?
This is why I never take my antique car to a repair shop. I fix EVERYTHING on my car myself, including custom work.
You do your own automotive painting? Thats great if you have a fully equipped automotive paint shop plus the years of experience necessary to achieve a high-quality finish to a valuable collectable car.
But ordinary car owners don't have any of that and need to hire professionals.
@@hbarcat you dont need a paint booth,,i've painted cars in my driveway that turned out well
@@hbarcat A "High Quality Finish" on a "collector" car is NOT factory (unless it's a Rolls or similar). All factory cars of the "60's-70's have SOME level of "orange peel" in the paint. It's an artifact of the high speed paint process in the factory.
@@barto6577They were 10 coats of lacquer (or more) and had to be wet blocked and buffed to look like glass.
@@catman19I've pulled out love bugs with tweezers , moths are the worst with powdery wings. Just wet sand and buff and nobody will know!
How do we stop Ross? He can't keep getting away with this.
Have you tried using a gun?
@@justicedemocrat9357 he shoots back. deer don't shoot back. bears don't shoot back. he shoots ba-a-a-ack!
*curls up into foetal ball of entitlement*
Mr Lehto, thank you for all of your work. I just found your chrysler turbine car book and i look forward to reading that.
Indeed a verdict can go either way and their respective reasonings can be equally thoughtful.
Pizza is not a crime, it is a MIRACLE !!!! 😍😍😍
My question is who ended up with the car was it returned to the original owner as well as judgement or are they not allowed to turn around the sale as well, for improper procedure used to gain ownership
I wonder if this would also apply to something like, I don’t know, a laptop! 😂
Yes
No, that would be Russian disinformation.
Glad the owner got his car back.
Did he get his car back? I didn't hear that his vehicle was returned, just that he got a $78,000 award.
@kwils6685 I'm wondering the same thing. No mention of the vehicle being returned.
Seems to me that he can now report the car as stolen and when/if it's found, the police could return it and the new owner should sue the repair shop.
The quote at the end was my friend’s graduation quote back in 2002.
Steve: "I'm purposely not making real examples because people want to argue."
Me: "What if A is both the same and opposite of D?"
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I was -or still am, involved in a similar situation. My 2022 Hyundai EV has been in and out of the dealership and several visits from Roadside assist due to 12v battery issues which are the subject of an international recall.
Anyway one particular morning at the start of May the 12v battery was dead (have replaced 3 times in the last year under warranty). I decided to buy a new battery from roadside assist. After installing it he tested it and said it is not charging, so told him to take it out and I'll have it towed to the dealer. After a cpl days the dealer rang and said they need my permission to do more testing (no mention of a charge for this) so I said OK if you want to. They claimed that despite the recall for this exact same problem, that the cause was parasitic draw by equipment installed in the car.
I dropped of my other car for a log book service and picked up and drove home in this car. They send me a bill for $1300 for diagnosis only - there was no fix other than they did a software update as per the recall notice. I paid for the logbook service but told them I wasn't paying for any diagnostic work carried out.
They refused to let me pick up the car till I paid the $1300 for the first car. Several weeks later they sent me an email saying that as of July 8th they were going to impose a $50/day parking fee and after 1 month they were going to have the vehicle removed to storage under the Unclaimed Goods Act.
They don't realize that I went to the dealership with my spare key and picked it up 7 weeks ago. I still haven't told them I already have it .
I learned the most about jury's EVER by your description of Jurys determine facts. Does that get conveyed to a jury before a trial?
I know a guitar repair shop with a dozen guitars dropped off for repair thirty plus years ago and were never claimed. The shop owner refuses to sell them just in case they come back!
48hours? If i parked at a hotel and 2 days later my car can be claimed?
if you weren't renting a room at the hotel, it's possible.
If you just left it there and weren't staying at the hotel, yes. If you booked a room or paid to park it there (hotels near airports do this), then you have a contract preventing it.
Depends on where you live.
Not in my county but in the next one, yes. If the business calls the police, they chalk the wheel. If the chalk does not move in 24 hours the businesses are allowed to remove it. A week later they can start to "claim" and that is about a 30-45 day process here.
Towed, but not claimed lmfao@@kenbrown2808
Removed from private property and shop laws are different or there would be no cars left on the road.
You would think that there would also be severe penalties handed down for the illegal transaction in the alleged sale of the vehicle.? There seemed to be nothing included as to what the State action may have been concerning the undocumented transfer from shop owner to employee.? So where is this auto???
Wouldn't that also be Criminal Fraud and Perjury (lying in an affidavit)?
When you take your car in to get it work done, you sign a paper of what they’re gonna do and the estimate of the job
The real question here is what the hell is wrong with the court of appeals!?!
Upon a verdict for the man with his car blatantly stolen comes in can he press charges for car theft?
The Guy who had this done to him should get the car back + money paid to paint the car + the value of the fraud that took place.
How this instance comes across to me is the customer continued complaining not because something was wrong, but because they didn't have anyone to go collect the car and store it for an unspecified amount of time while the customer was dealing with other issues. Customer ran out of money and couldn't pay the bill, but rather than be embarrassed about their social status they were intending to make the shop store the car for free.
Ran a repair shop for 20+ years. On our work order, at the bottom, was a bit of "fine print" in bright red stating that 1: the work order was an expressed lien against the vehicle, 2: Any time at the shop over 90 days had to be mutually agreed (write a second W.O. and attach it), and 3: That the shop had expressed authority to operate the vehicle.
That 3rd part intentionally did not include the words "For the purposes of testing" because my techs still had to drive the car into the repair bay. My insurance wouldn't cover damage to the vehicle if it was just being moved on the lot... So when I had a new guy crush the rear door of a durango on the doorframe of my building, my insurance told me to eff-off.
As to seizing customers vehicles, I was required to send the cars to auction, pay the auction fee and hope that the return would cover whatever I was out already on the project. I was the guy who would work on the cars that were barely breathing for the folks who couldn't really afford a replacement. In many cases, I never bothered with claiming ownership. I'd just call the county and have them hauled off as abandoned.
'Paint Jail' is why my cars had 'Patina' before it was Cool. Drive grin repeat
This isn't really the same theme of the story that I'm shop owner, and I was once sued by somebody about something that broke on their car that I told them was going to break if they didn't get it fixed but they decided not to fix it. So a small claims and while we were telling the judge our perspective Stories the judge decided that the car was old so it was going to break anyway so I wasn't found liable. That's not what I argued at all. What I told the judge was I told him to fix X he decided not to fix X when X broke that's what left him stranded on the side of the road. The judge completely ignored that just decided that the car was old so It was going to break anyway and found in my favor. Once I realized where he was going with the story but was going to rule in my favorite I just shut up, facts didn't matter What mattered was what the judge is perception of the age of the car was. The age of the car had nothing to do with it but in the end I won.
the title of this one is strikingly consistent with the facts surrounding my own dilemma
crazy, this is highly relevant to my most recent TWO dilemmas with automobiles wrongfully taken from me in completely unrelated incidents!
I've heard so many stories about shady repair shops.
The DMV sent a notice by non-registered/certified mail & no return receipt?
Even if you were to throw everything else out, the one sticking point that I would have as a juror on this case is that the car's owner paid for the job in advance. The shop owner absolutely knew that, and at some point had to have thought to himself that no one is ever going to pay for a car to be repaired , amd then just up and abandon the car, thereby forfeiting every penny invested in the car. No one is ever going to do that.
If I was presiding over this case, the penalty would be simple...
1) Return the car to the owner, regardless of what it costs you to get it back.
2) Pay someone else, of the owner's choice of course, to paint the car to the owner's satisfaction, regardless of what it costs you.
3) You get to pay for all his court costs and attorney's fees.
4) I'm going to come up with a ridiculous amount of money for you to pay to the owner, and then I'm going to award him triple damages...
A) For his inconvenience and mental distress.
B) Just because I can.
C) To teach you a lesson.
And,
D) Just because I can.
So Ordered.
Ben Hundo's on the 3rd shelf down, right side, by the Barrister Dog and the U.S. Coast Guard sign,
I had a car, "converted", by a shop. They kept putting me off for the repairs and one day the shop was closed and my car was gone, along with all the other cars. Never tracked it down.
I hope the word gets out on this dishonest shop owner and he has to close for lack of business.
I once read of a case (criminal) where a critical element of the crime was knowing that the contraband was Schedule I or II narcotics. The government showed that a courier knew that a suitcase contained some sort of contraband but provided not even the tiniest piece of evidence the courier knew the suitcase contained narcotics. The Appellate Court scoured the evidence admitted at trial and couldn’t find anything even a coconspirator saying the courier said “yup this is narco, smack, horse, blow, etc.” (Or evidence the courier knew he’d delivered drugs for the same outfit.) The drug trafficking conviction had to be overturned because the Gov failed to prove a necessary element of knowingly trafficking drugs. I’m sure everyone who testified simply assumed it was obvious … It could’ve been fake Rolexes, stolen diamonds, secret business info, …
“We want you to deliver this to XYZ address, don’t open it & you’ll get X$.”
Courier: “got it. will do.”
I wish like to make a comment about a similar thing. 2002-3 I had a guy drop a vehicle "no start" condition. After about 2 and 1/2 minutes I diagnosed it was overheated and smoked the rings requiring a rebuild or a replacement. Gave several estimates for the work and the customer requested 8 weeks to get the money to which I had no problem. After the work was done he never came to pay several certified letters later still no response. So I put a mechanics lein and over a year later I was awarded legal possession. Once the customer got the notification from D.O.T. he decided he wanted it back to which I was willing to return it for the cost of the repairs and I went easy on storage only 6 months instead of the actual time which was beyond double. Went to court (bench trial) and literally 15 minutes later the judge ruled in my favor and instead of picking up the car and paying for it he ended up also having to pay court costs my legal fees and I believe I was awarded additional compensation for my time dealing with the summons.
Thank you Steve
Thanks for explaining the process. A jury has a job and if the judgement is thrown out, should they not poll the jury as part of the appeal? Seems logical.
Canadian Robot Lady: Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Me: I did that. The park ranger yelled at me and told me to quit stepping on the plants and get back on the damn trail.
My advice to vehicle owners of both collector vehicles and daily drivers is: investigate prospective garages and mechanics, in this internet age you can dig up dirt on anyone that has questionable business ethics. Get multiple estimates and just because you have had a "good last experience" with a shop does not mean that they can't backslide; stay vigilant, be persistent.
I have personally had numerous negative experiences with mechanics and their shops.
Set expectations, get it in writing when the work will get done, write down the mileage of you vehicle the second it leaves your possession and take photos of the odometer also the vehicle to show condition when dropped off.
There are many honorable mechanics and shops, however, there are also countless lying, scamming scumbags out there to.
Caveat emptor!
I would be curious to know if the paint shop owner has used the abandoned vehicle law in the past and if so how many times he has done this.