The Right Mindset for Buying Hunting Land | Dream Farm w/ Bill Winke
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2023
- This is episode 3 in a 7 part series called "My Journey" in which I talk with a young man named Ethan Stubbs about my journey to assemble my first dream farm. Along the way, I answer his questions and offer advice to anyone starting on this journey.
In this episode I focus on a wide range of topics, but I think the most important one is how make sure you are buying quality when buying a farm that you plan to eventually resell for a profit on your quest to find and afford the final dream farm.
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I started with 15 acres back in 2007 and have bought and flipped 10 farms since then in 3 different midwest states with the average size being about 80 acres. My primary focus is investment, but my family does enjoy using the farms! My rules for buying land are: 1) Be patient and selective as the right opportunity will come. 2) Do not buy land I am not ok holding. 3) Do not overextend myself. 4) Do not take advantage of others (e.g., widow). 5) I must buy it right and see the means of making a profit. 6) Don't be tempted to buy something just because it is cheap, it must have resale value. 7) Don't fall for a property too hard and overpay - but again my focus is flipping and not long-term hold.
Those are all really good rules. I like rule 4. When I bought straight from my neighbors I made it a rule that I would pay 10% over market price. When I bought outside that area, Larry and I never tried to rip anyone off. We always bought listed properties. You can make money doing this without being being a snake in the grass. Good luck.
This is so awesome Bill you don't have to take the time to teach us this stuff. Can't say enough how much we appreciate it.
Thanks Rob. I hope you are able to put this into action. I love owning land and helping others do it a big part of what "Dream Big" is all about. Good luck.
So much value in these quick hitter episodes, thanks for taking time to get all this down for us!
It has been fun, Alex, to relive some of these adventures. I am glad you enjoy them.
Love the videos. Great timing with me looking to buy land in the next couple of years. Easy to watch and take in. Great content
Thanks Derrick. Good luck to you on your land journey.
Appreciate all the advice Bill.
Thanks Mitchell. Much appreciated.
Thanks a lot. This was very informative and helpful.
Thanks Afif. I appreciate the comment.
Enjoying the series. Wishing I had just bought something earlier in life like Ethan is trying to do. Just getting started is so huge, as long as it’s something of good quality, as you say. Good luck to the young man!
Thanks. Yes, the longer you wait, the less time you have to move things around and ramp up the size and location. If you are starting out past 55, for example, I think I would go straight to the dream farm even if it is only a 40. Maybe you could try one investment farm first and then try to swing that into something you really want to hold forever. I think you want to be settled by about age 60 or you won't have the time to enjoy it. Also, trying to rush this process rarely works well. The best advice is to get started young and then you can outrun your mistakes, if you make any.
Good luck.
Great advice as usual! We bought with the intention to keep it and pass it down to through the family. It’s 100% a legacy farm for us. I know some don’t look at land ownership this way but we do.
I look at the final piece that way, but the pieces I had to buy to get from zero to something I viewed as temporary. But you never know what life throws at you, so it is nice to always realize that if push comes to shove, you can and will sell it - if you have to. Good word.
It’s awesome he has this opportunity. Hope there are some options on the terrain or multiple pieces of land to look at. When I was 52 some mesquite land I came across was way under priced ( cheaper then dirt by today’s prices) and I was able to get it. I knew the land pretty well and bought it sight unseen. Got the money moved before they backed out. I run cows one one half section and they have paid it off multiple times.
It only takes one of those windfalls to get you off and running. Congrats on being able to move when you needed to.
These videos are awesome. I bought my first 70 last year and it's interesting to see how many similar thoughts I had and how many things I didn't think of. I'm currently in the process of trading some land with my neighbor. It will make both of our properties more valuable and easier to use. Trades are a good option in the right situation.
Agreed. Very good point. Thanks for the input and the comment.
These episodes are definitely note takers. I am learning a TON! What other income idea's do you have for a property? Timber isn't really an option in my area and on most properties listed in north Texas. Leasing hunting right's wouldn't work because I would want to hunt. I could lease grazing if it had good enough grass and someone would remove cattle during the fall but that is about all I can think of. Keep em coming!
Thanks Ben. There is not a ton of potential cash flow on recreational land. Some tillable land is often part of the mix, timber value, maybe a cabin and AirBnB income potential - depending on where it is lactated. I would not lease grazing as that will also defeat the deer hunting goal as cattle are pretty hard on the habitat and compete with deer for space. Not to say, it can't be done, but that is not a strong income source anyway, in my experience.
Bill, Great info you are sharing with next generation. As individuals get older and income levels hopefully increase, there is another option in lieu of a 1031 Exchange. If you have a farm you really like and want to expand your hunting options, depending on your situation you don’t have to sell it, you can borrow equity out of your current property as a down payment to buy the next property.
Joel, yes good point. That is what my lender did when I added to this farm we own now. He used equity we had in our house, which was paid for, so we didn't have to come up with any down payment on the piece we bought. He said at any time we can "buy the house back out" of the collateral with cash. Great point.
Good information here.
Thanks Lonnie. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
Hi Bill
Here in MI if I remember correct 1031 rule is 90days and 180days to close; I've done it on dwelling real estate, and eventually roll the entire thing into a farm here, Imlay City to be more exact.
Keep it up, very educational for the new comers to the real estate investment.
Dan
Dan, thanks for the comment. It is 45 days to identify the replacement (up to three in most cases) for the 1031 exchange and 180 days to close on at least one of them. Since it is an IRS code it is the same in every state. I appreciate the input and the support. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke Thank you for the reply, I follow you for a good while now and DO apply a lot of your thinking in the way I do business; Keep them coming, very educational for a lot of young folks.
Dan
I think you will find “many” farmers don’t necessarily own the ground they farm or at least as much as they did back in the day. It’s amazing how much you can learn reviewing your onX maps. Get to know those people in the neighborhood you would like to own land and if they own multiple tracts of they may be willing to part with one. Gotta be bold and creative. Never get anything if you don’t ask!
That's right. The main thing is to be present - know what is happening in the neighborhoods you want want to own in. Of course, don't be pushy or you will get no where. Just be courteous and spend time in those areas talking to people and listening. Good luck.
The interaction between Bill, with all his experience, and Ethan, a newbie - juxtaposed with the desire to get started in recreational property ownership - in a period where some would argue that we are in a real estate price bubble is rather informative for those interested in land. Ethan looks like a great kid with a promising future and I hope he doesn't eventually overextend himself. That mortgage payment, due month after month, gets painful pretty quickly.
Michael, thanks for the comment and the support. I think Ethan is realistic when it comes to his approach to buying land he knows a lot of people who can give him good advice, including a family banker that he knows well. I believe he will make good choices.
I was able to get 40 acres in the neighborhood I wanted. Then I talked with my lender who let me use the 40 as collateral to buy more. I got on huntwise and figured out my neighbors. I have great neighbors and now have 200 acres. Never had to come up with down payment since the first purchase.
That is awesome. Good for you. I love to hear stories like that. Congrats.
I moved to a new area recently and have limited hunting options. My new place backs up to a 40 acre farm, with 15 acres of the farm all woodland that joins me. I blindly found the owner of the farm, introduced myself and asked if he would be interested at all of selling the 15 acres of woodland on that piece of property. Very surprisingly, his response was "you want to go to the courthouse right now and transfer it?" I about fell over. Needless to say, I now own that 15 acres (at a reasonable price), as the wooded terrain had no value to him on that property. I got lucky.
Steven, great story and congrats. It definitely takes some luck, but the more you try, the better the chance you will hit something good. Thanks for the input.
Way to go! The bold get the gold. Your seller was paying taxes on,to him, dead land and you must have been the first to ask?.
@@specag31 Maybe so. He had logged it prior to me contacting him, and he's an older gentleman, so I guess he thought it was "dead land" to him. I wanted it strictly for hunting and building habitat, so it worked out well for both of us. He did ask as the ball was rolling....what are you going to do with this land? I told him other than a few habitat improvements, as long as I had the land, it would look just like it does today. That made him even happier. As a side note.... the property has better hunting on it, than I could have ever imagined. Another bonus.
Continues to be a good series.
According to some colleagues in the farm/Rec land lending business, there are opinions that there is a good opportunity for Gen Z’s/younger millennials coming. Hunting interest/active hunters continues to trend downward. Couple that with aging Baby Boomers who will be passing on properties to children who may not want the land and we may start to see a flattening of the rec land market. So, the investment opportunity may be slowing (unless you have tillable, of course) but the affordability of the timber may significantly improve.
That makes sense. The big picture though (long term), is that recreational land is decreasing in supply due to development and farming practices, so even if the demand drops some, the price should hold up long-term. I think this will be a very good investment for the long-term. As they say, "They aren't making any more of it". Good input.
I hope you are correct, but gen xrs are buying up anything that pops up around here in western il. Everyone is looking for that dream farm Bill speaks of here. Nothing sits long, and some tracts sell without even being listed.
I’ve sent letters to neighbors, if you ever think about selling let me know. It’s worked once so far, but if they don’t know you’re interested they may list and it’ll be gone before you get a chance
Yes, it always pays to let them know you are looking to buy more if they ever want to sell. Good point.
Take it from me who has bought and sold many hunting farms over the years, unless you can buy a 1000 acres minimum you will spend a TON of time being frustrated unless you want to kill just any ol’ deer.
Or you have to buy into a really good neighborhood. I have seen plenty of 300 acre farms in Iowa that were better than my big farm because of the neighbors. But you will pay a big premium to be in those neighborhoods, if the farms ever even hit the open market in the first place. Good input.
@@bill-winke true, but most of Kansas is a pretty good neighborhood yet I still end up frustrated every year as the only buck you really want to survive one more year ALWAYS commits suicide. Usually on the last, or next-to-last, day.
Looking at trends, I am watching sale/listing prices drop quite drastically. I will be watching closely for awhile and looking for that next farm, hopefully....
I have not seen that action here in my area yet, but there have been very few farms come up for sale. I guess that is one thing that holds prices higher here - an overall lack of supply. Good luck.
I have land in se mn not far from you by Hokah in Houston county. There definitely isnt an over abundance of property’s that come up for sale around here. Very few. I found 80 acres for sale that I bought in 2018. Was best thing I ever did in my early thirties. The value has gone up a lot since then. There’s some good timber value on it to
@@Jay-hu1pc If you get serious about land investing you will have to branch out into areas with more land on the market so you can keep the ball rolling. Congrats and good luck.
@@Jay-hu1pc Maybe look across the River.
Best way is door knocking or cold calling. I’ve bought all 5 of my properties that way. All good deals.
Amazing. In my area, that never works. Good for you can congrats!
It takes time that’s for sure. Like anything. Casting 100 nets of failure for every one success. Just need to keep after it.
Sometimes People want to sell to people they like. Be nice and friendly and a Frank conversation can go along way in the right situation.
Could you land contract for 6 months, and then when yours sells turn it then? If you had the right seller I suppose. Usually land owners with a chunk of land have the resources to do a land contract. Talking them into a bridge loan might be tricky.
No, I don't think that will stand up to the 1031 requirements. You can't own the replacement property in any way before you sell the piece you are letting go. That might mean tying it up with an option for a few months, etc. but you can't own it yourself until after selling the other piece.
Ethan get to know the farmers in the area you want to buy and help one if you have the time and if they need help can get you a deal some time, I know some guy’s that found some awesome ground on Craigs list it was a family feud deal and the didn’t want anyone in the family getting their part
I also know a guy that recently bought a piece through an online auction that no one seemed to know about. He was the only bidder and bought it for about 60% of market value for that ground. Those deals are out there, but few and far between. Good luck and thanks for the support.
This is similar to how I bought my property. None of the neighbors liked each other so they wouldn't sell to each other. I didn't necessarily get a great deal but I was able to buy in a neighborhood that property rarely comes on the market because I was prepared to jump.
Hey Bill I'm thinking about buying your old farm in Iowa what are your thoughts 🤔
If you are serious you should contact me at info@billwinke.com.
People show one 10 point at night and people think 10 acres is worth 300,000
How "like" are we talking? "Like" can get a bit gray.
The definition is "Real property (real estate) held for investment", so that means a commercial building is a like kind investment for a piece of land and vice versa. In fact, an apartment complex or even rental houses are also like kind for hunting land, at least in the eyes of the IRS. But, the most important thing is to get a good 1031 intermediary and he/she will be able to guide you through those issues. For a 1031, you can't actually hold the cash between the time you sell the first and buy the second. If you have access to it (in your account) it disqualifies the 1031. So you give the intermediary the legal right to buy and sell on your behalf and the cash from the sale goes into their account and not yours. Good luck.
There is gonna be 50 EP’s lol
Nope, just seven, as it turned out. But we packed as much as we could into those. Thanks for the support.
land Is damn near untouchable now a days kid save your money
It is really tough out there. Pretty soon it will be untouchable for everyone except the very rich or the land sizes will keep getting smaller and smaller.
I don’t understand how anybody could even be thinking about buying land Or worrying about it! The only thing I’m worried about now is my salvation being sealed with God!
I agree that is definitely the most important priority, but once you have that Eric, you still need to go on with living and making wise and stewardly use of your talents and money. Land is a time honored investment that they even refer to as honorable in the Bible. Have a great day.
What?