Where to Buy Your First Piece of Land - Looking for Value | Dream Farm w/ Bill Winke
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2023
- There are two kinds of landowners in the recreational land market. One category has end users (legacy owners). They plan to own the land forever and leave it to their heirs. The other category is made up of investors. Those with the investor mindset may use the land also but they don't plan to own it forever. It is just a stepping stone to something else - maybe something bigger.
When you are looking for the best starting point to create early value in your quest to own the dream farm, you might be surprised to find that it makes more sense not only to be an investor yourself, instead of an end user, but also to buy land in areas where most of of the other buyers are investors too. Don't be a legacy owner too soon. After you watch this episode you will understand why.
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Don’t buy too far, or it will be too far To go enjoy. My dad bought 280 acres 6-7 hrs from home, it was a days drive to get there. So you have to think about that part of it to.
I think it is OK to start with a wide net when you are in the investment stage in order to find at least a few undervalued properties, but that final dream farm should be as close to home as possible.
@@bill-winke yeah guess I agree on the investment part of it, if you’ll turn it in a few years and the goal is equity!
We bought 41 acres in Northern Missouri in December 2021 but live in Michigan, it has since gained a substantial amount of value , This is our 5th property we have owned, have sold all the others to get to this point. Land is a rock solid investment, Bills advice is spot on.
Thanks Ryan. You are basically defining my journey. Start small and build. It is attainable, it just takes longer now given the higher prices. Good word.
Land I don’t think you can go wrong, if you buy in a desirable area. You won’t lose money, and more work you put into it habitat related you’re increasing it’s value. Be smart about your investment and it will pay you back two fold sometimes more. I always thought these things were out of reach, but take the risk, you’ll get it done. Just don’t bite off more than you can chew!
You are right Steve. Start small and build up. It is the smart approach and will keep you within your income level and budget much better than trying to go after the big hunk of cheese right from the start.
Bill thanks again for the educational content. Enjoying every bit of the show.
Thanks Mark. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
Love talking about this stuff, thanks for the video. Great topic
Thanks for watching Steve. Much appreciated.
Love this series. I’m in Ohio, started with my first property in northern Ohio where land is more expensive, sold that after a year, bought 40 acres farther south, sold that after a year and am looking at 120 acres tomorrow even farther south. Makes it so much easier when you start with a more expensive area then work your way down. Doubled my money on every deal so far.
You have done well, and you bring up a good point: the quicker you sell your investment properties after buying them, the higher your net return. If you hold them long enough they will tend toward the long-term average of roughly 5 to 8% (depending on market), but if you sell it quickly and keep the money moving, you are really leveraging the bank's money to grow your own. But, you have to be really careful of two things that can catch up with you: 1. you will get a reputation for flipping land and people will come to resent you - especially if you are buying land that was not listed. That will eventually shut down your opportunities unless you cast a wide net. 2. You might trigger an audit if you are selling too quickly and using a 1031. A good accountant can help you there. Good luck.
Really good series,thanks for sharing,some good info 👍
Thanks for the comment Scott. I appreciate it.
Good info Bill. I like the 3yrs hold, and for deer hunting land being able to show success when selling raises the price substantially here in Wisconsin for sure! Bought a piece 3yrs ago now which the price for selling has increased 57% in that short time which is crazy in my book. I am getting older now might just continue to work in this spot! Want to retire in a few years! Again great content.
Thanks Karl. I appreciate it. I think in some markets you can move faster, if you want to. I do think that holding it through at least one hunting season is critical even in a hot market so you can create some hunting history and make improvements to the habitat and food sources. Have a great day.
Solid advice Bill, I have owned my 80 acres for over 25 years now, best investment I ever made.
I love land. Not only do you get to use it, but it usually appreciates nicely over time. Good word.
Good stuff. Really appreciate you doing this series. I'm hoping one day when my kids are older, and my house is paid off, I will be able to buy some land here in SE Ohio. Hard to tell how much it will be inflated by then.
Thanks, I appreciate the support and you are right, there is no way to tell what land will be doing by then. I would start a side savings account for the down payment now. Even if you don't put a lot in there, it will inspire you to save and if you need to in the case of an emergency, you can always raid it. Good luck.
Hey Bill, this is Ian Kramer. My brother and I were on the MWW East show from Western PA and now throw videos up on here when we find success in the field. This past fall was exciting for us. You can check out a video or two if you find the time!
A little over a year ago my wife and I purchased our first piece of property about an hour west of us in Ohio and like many others it had always been dream of mine to own land. I was really excited to see the first video from this series last week and really enjoy watching these, even after listening to the podcast I think from Exodus when you went over your land journey. My wheels are spinning about when and how I'll roll into a bigger piece or snag up a bordering property when it comes up for sale.
Thanks Ian, I remember you guys well. You were excellent contributors. I took a look at your channel. Nice job. I see you are shooting a recurve now. Good for you. I love shooting them, but I am just not as good with them as I need to be right now to hunt with one. Good luck on the next property. It is there for you. Just keep looking. Have a great day.
Michigan born and raised. I love it. We get great fishing and hunting year round.
I lived there for a total of seven years. No state has more outdoor recreation than Michigan: hunting, fishing, camping, canoeing, golfing, etc.
@@bill-winke I love this state. Wish It was more of a ( Iowa ) type deer quality but we get some good ones can't complain. We can catch fish all year. Haha. Always a season and always something to do all year long. Btw love the content Bill
In North east mi you can still get in under 2k a acre. But 85 to 120 inch 3 and 4 year olds are a trophy.
That is the tradeoff - also the distance from population areas greatly effects price too.
Love the series. Consider making it 20 minutes.
Thanks for watching John. I appreciate the support.
The good thing about being young Ethan is you will get better and more knowledgeable about your business and will be able to charge more money for your specialty. You may want to cap the amount of time you work. I’ve seen people work themselves into an early grave and never able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. There is definitely a balance. Start small and make the land more valuable with some sweat equity. Enjoy it for awhile and then look to upgrade. Slow and steady wins the race.
Excellent advice Steven. Finding the balance is super important and can be really tough if you aren't careful and have very strict priorities. Have a great day.
PMI is an important point as well with less than 20% down. That will probably add a couple hundred a month to the payment. Good info. I'm 45 and still acquiring but it's hard with 5 other people to take care of but he is young. Hard work, works!
It is also great if you can get an honest appraisal to come in above purchase price. That is a definite bonus (that has helped me a couple of times) and why I always want to use a good appraiser who looks at the big picture rather than just someone who wants to justify the actual purchase price. I have seen both. Good luck.
Can you tell us if you have any trespasser problems and how you handle those if any ?
Fortunately, I have not had a trespasser issue on any of the farms I have owned. On the corporate farm there were a few guys coming in, but I fixed that easily by inviting the game warden to hunt the farm. He then went around to all the neighbors and told them he was hunting the farm and that he had a stand just beyond their line on our side and asked if he could access that stand through their land. Of course, he didn't have a stand there, in most cases, but it put everyone on notice that the times had changed. It worked really well. That didn't stop any issues coming from the road, but eventually those faded away too.
This is an awesome series. I’m married, have a 3 year old boy and another due in April. I make decent money with a secure job and land is my dream. It’s so stinking expensive in my area though! Like $8k-$10k per acre on the low end. There is an area about 2 hours to the north in Oklahoma I have my eye on regularly though so this conversation really solidified my idea of building up where it is cheaper and make your money there, slowly working towards where you want to be. How would I convince my wife to be on board with this? Lol. Bill, I’m curious of your preference over the one large piece that you typically have versus multiple smaller tracts spread out a little? I was watching something with Mark Drury a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about how he had changed his philosophy to multiple smaller tracts over time. He mentioned EHD affecting different herds in different areas and just having multiple deer to hunt in general. Either way makes sense to me, I was just curious of your perspective on that. Thanks fellas!
Just bought my first piece this past August; thirty acres with some unique access challenges. What you mention was my biggest hurdle. With twin two year old boys and single income we are barely holding ahead of bills until my wife re-enters the workforce. I failed to do a good job initially helping my wife understand the investment side of the purchase. Despite being on board with the idea, she didn’t fully see the larger investment picture. Communicate and illustrate the process and your vision along with an escape plan should circumstances change. The escape plan was just as, if not more important, to my wife than anything else.
pmfunnell is right. You have to involve her in the process. The thing is that you are not diverting cash into hunting, you are diverting it into land, which you can sell if you have to. Always know that if you have to sell and cash out of land, that you can. That is the key. It is no different from any other investment with the same return, other than the fact that you get to enjoy it along the way. My guess is that once she understands that you are investing and not just paying for a place to hunt, she will get behind it. Regarding one farm versus many, I think if I could have several properties all in good neighborhoods, that would be idea. But that is really hard to do. Often you have to create your own neighborhood by expanding what you own. I also like that I don't have to travel all over the place when doing the management work. My tractor stays on one farm and that is much easier to get work done, logistically. Good luck.
These are some information packed episodes! It seems the elephant in the room is that trade off of how far you're willing to drive to a piece if the price is right. With your satellite pieces Bill, did you find yourself frequenting them or was it a one fell swoop approach?
It works better for the final dream farm to be close to home, if possible, but those investment pieces are where you find them, not where you want them. You have to cast a wide net to find the pieces that are possibly undervalued. I only went to those satellite parcels when I was working on them. I never hunted them. There was a daylight active 200 incher on the 240 acre parcel. I never hunted him. I left him for the person that bought that farm. Unfortunately, that buck was shot on a neighboring parcel before the buyer could get on him. I had enough good hunting close to home that I didn't care to drive an hour or two when I had nice bucks out my backdoor. Those outlying pieces were purely for investment and resale. Good luck.
@@bill-winke great insight Bill! We appreciate the information from experience that you are willing to provide! I can only imagine the information stream Ethan is able to take in
3500/acre in Iowa is cheap compared to land in Illinois. Due to IRS rules anytime any farmland in the Chicago area is sold the owners are looking for more downstate property to buy to roll over their money. In late 2021 we spent around 350,000 for 85 acres that was neglected & I need to remove a bunch of invasives but it was adjacent to property we already owned & if it was subdivided we wouldn't be able to hunt the adjacent property anymore due to setback rules from occupied residences. Plus it has lake frontage. North Central MO still has some good land prices & decent hunting land if you look in the right places.
Yes, I have seen that in southern Iowa too. One sale triggered about four more as people started scrambling to find somewhere to go with the proceeds of those sales without having to pay capital gains. Sounds like you made a good deal on that IL ground. Lake front has to be worth a lot anywhere these days. I do think MO in general has some good deals still, along with a few other areas. Southern IN and parts of Kentucky come to mind too - among others.
@@bill-winke I got lucky on the 85 acres, I happened to drive home that way, saw the sign before anyone else & had a contract in 2 days. I had first tried to buy it in the late 90s.
Also look at the psychological aspects of his age. Maybe he’ll find a bride and have a baby. Sure makes it tough working 60hrs a week, caring for a family and finding time to chase mature bucks. The dream is always in the middle but should never be a top priority
Excellent advice. For those reasons Ethan needs to get after it now, while he has that opportunity and is young enough to have the energy to pull it off. That way he can scale back as needed later. I can't possibly keep up now with the younger version of me. We all necessarily slow down. If you are older, it makes sense for the dream farm to be smaller for a number of reasons. But when you are young you need to take advantage of the opportunity afforded by youth and put forth maximum effort. You can always scale back later, or get more efficient in your business by hiring people, etc. giving you time for higher priorities. Have a great day.
Yeah u can work too hard to enjoy the property , start w piece u can afford and enjoy , move up
I’ve got neighbor who we bought from originally trying sell me another 60 acre track , man I want it but hate to go back in debt
On Ky got on bunch big hunting shows our land doubled
Don, my advice is to try to buy it. If it weighs too heavily financially, you can always sell it. It is way harder to buy something that borders you than to sell it. Good luck.
Work doesn’t hardly pay for land anymore.
@@wcgamer9379 No, income alone won't get you far. You have to start small and then work on selling that piece and moving up to something bigger when the opportunity arises, so you are buying land with land, in some sense.