Gravel Bikes Exist Because Mountain Biking Is Boring | Gravel Vs MTB Race
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 10. 2019
- Are gravel bikes just retro mountain bikes? They share a lot of the same characteristics: narrow bars, wider tyres and long stems.. But how similar are they? And have modern gravel bikes improved cycling? Si and Dan compare their old XC bikes against a pair of Lauf True Grits to find out.
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Gravelbikes excist because it's a brilliant strategy to sell even more bikes.
Wow! GCN is still actively liking comments on a 10 month old videos!
well I'm replacing to bikes with one, then I'm not sure it's the best selling strategy for everyone.
Arhat's Corner No actually mtb bikes are boring. I might add classic road bikes are boring as well. Imho
Millmoor Michael Not tryna argue just stating that you say , classic road bikes are boring ?!?!? no way mate ,Iâd pick a old school Raleigh with Reynolds 753 tubing or even a 531 tube set , over a carbon monstrosity anyday of the week . , nothing beats the clean lines , the style, the light and smooth ride quality, donât even get me started on the attitude , absolutely love the classics , yea carbon is faster for top end racers but we all know eddy Merckâs on a steel bike would leave all these plastic roadies in the dust .
and i think Eddy would have have said "these carbon bikes are shit" and then turned up on the lightest one he could find...
the industry wantâs us to feel bad about our old bikes every year
INDEED
Best thing is, the bike I coveted and couldn't afford in the 90s, someone gave me for free now!
Almost every cyclist is "over-biked". I see retirees here in South Florida on modern racing road bikes all sitting two inches or more too low. I decided that this is because they bought a bike intended for a young man to be able to ride in a permanent tuck that these geezers can't achieve but since the bars don't go up on these things they have to drop the saddle. They are paying $5,000 for a 12 lb bike that doesn't fit them and their bodies are 30 lbs or more overweight. It's laughable.
I am stuck in the 80s and will not ride anything other than steel. Brakes will have rubber blocks and cables and I might switch back from indexed shifting as well. I am also a clips and straps guy. I am not in the Tour de France and I don't feel the need to play "dress up". I have become my father. He was always checking for mudguard clearance and eyelets and pannier bosses.
@@errcoche I feel ya. I ride the 90's on an old 'Goose with a cheapo Walmart grade suspension fork slapped on it, and while I mostly ride rail trails, it's definitely just the right kind of bike for the job. My only gripe about it is that it's long in the tooth, so some parts are rather worn, (my bb just ate itself completely, for example) others are outdated and hard to replace or upgrade, and it's only 26", not something more modern like 27.5 or 29". But it's still great fun.
Makes my folks a bit mad when they see me blow money on it, though. Always get hit with "why don't you just buy a better bike?" Well because a better bike is $300 or more, even for just a Walmart Schwinn.
@@CPD0123a You can get a Shimano sealed BB for maybe $15 ( well you probably bought one already I am guessing ). Other than that it's just maybe worn cassette/freewheel sprockets, chainrings or chain that you should have to contend with. You can regrind pitted cones in hubs with a drill and some sandpaper. It's a badge of honor to wear out your drive train. If you have a steel frame, you can widen the rear dropouts for an 8/9 speed drive train and get access to some better components. My sister-in-law rides a Mongoose steel frame that I bought for $45, not chromoly or anything, and I want to get her a better bike but she won't give up her beloved 'Goose. She grew up dirt poor in El Salvador and this is the first bike she ever had that had all its parts so to her it's the ultimate riding machine.
At the end of the day it's about riding not the bike ( tell me that when I am poring over upgrade parts though ! ).
Biking is all about having fun, so whichever bike gives you a thrill, is the one to have.
All bikes it is
"its super light and to be honest its not trying to hard" the bike costs 5k for gods sake i think thats trying
... and the retro mtbs now cost $50 on a garage sale for almost, but not quite the same experience
@@downgradefan I actually got my current mtb out of a ditch haha its a fully rigid one and just needed two tubes, amazing what lazy people will throw away!
@@cilldaracyclist2822 Good thing the bike does not have to be expensive to be great fun :)
@@downgradefan yep facts pal, I've actually put about 2500km on it in about 6 months using it as a commuter
@@downgradefan Depends on the bike i guess. Some retro bikes can get expensive tho
CORRECTION: gravel bikes exist because ROAD biking is boring.
đđđ
@@Sco0bs Haha, yeah. I'm really starting to prefer cruising through the woods with no traffic!
Dealing with highly opinionated MTB riders is boring, I ride both road and MTB, the roadies are generally speaking much less up themselves then mtb riders, and for everyone, road riding gives far endurance then just MTB alone, I prefer XC MTBs, but in saying that, each to their own, just the fact you ride a bike should be enough for everyone, bicycles are great
@@Jabba1625 "roadies are speaking much less up themselves". meanwhile this video is all about roadies trying to prove themselves better than mtb riders
@@Matt-vo5zm I thought they were discussing old MTB vs a gravel bike, basically not trying to out do MTB riders, the wankers I have to deal every week at the MTB park is completely grating, makes you feel ashamed to say you ride a MTB.
I didn't really notice mtb getting boring. I was too busy riding mountain bikes to actually realize it.
It's only got boring for marketing execs with 10 second attention spans.
For the rest of us who are normal, it's still mountain biking and still exciting.
It has everything to do with the trails in your area. In many parts of the US and Canada the trails require a proper MTB to enjoy. Especially the newer trails which are being built specifically for modern MTB capabilities.
@@TearmoonBroadcasting lol, that's so wrong.
@@TearmoonBroadcasting bud you've got that backwards
If you watched the movie to the end you would hear an explanation that the real point was that modern mtb (FS) bikes are overkill for the routes most of us ride. Hence the evolution towards gravel bikes. When the 29er came out, montstercross bikes came with them, and of them the less armored gravels.
Agreed, average Joe's mountain bike ride is very different to all those fancy videos featuring trails, jumps, stunts, etc. But the same difference applies to road biking as well! Anyone would love to climb those majestic Alpine passes, but most people in fact end up riding on dull, flat roads with heavy traffic!
Dull flat roads? Speak for yourself! I ride dull hilly roads
7:25 You know you're a roadie when you dismount for that lol. Sketchy is good!
I was thinking that myself l would of been over that with my dog in his basket..
Also the "gnarly" jumps before that. You'd have to try pretty hard to injure yourself on those :D
@@Pensasneuvostoliittolainen Gnarly jumps were described as such only as a joke. Plus I wouldn't ride either over that slippery wood surface on a bike I only used for just a couple of minutes and don't know how the tyres are going to behave.
@@alicangul2603 yes
@@stuartwhelan233
E
I love that you put it back to 4:3 picture frame for the retro bike.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who caught the different ratio frame changes for the bikes. Well played lads.
And full CD audio quality like a VHS Hi-Fi audio track.
I only clicked on this video because I wanted to hear there made up lies on how they are to scared to ride on real mountain bike trails
And the VHS static!
Cross country bike: "Am i a joke to you?"
@@fragotron I'd delete your videos before calling anyone a bitch you fucktard. go get high and sing the "computer song" again
@Venxz lmao
@@wivenxz2339 Why would he delete his videos? Does he strike you as the kind of guy who gives a shit?
âRetroâ MTB bikes, âwerenât THAT goodâ!?! They were (read: ARE) focking brilliant!
I just realize that these guys have 2/3 of their body made of legs....now I understand why they all have such high seats lol
Holy shit youâre right lol
frickin weird lookin --skinny dudes
Lol
Is there some beef between GCN and GMBN we need to know about đ
GCN is owning the discipline of old school off road cycling that mountain biking has pushed itself so far away from. Dead on, guys, best video ever. Every bike was sick!
Yeah they are more talented than us.
@@simonrichardson5259 But they'll never look as good in Lycra at a cafe stop.
GCN presenters are mods, GMBN presenters are rockers.
I think there has been a long rivalry between "Roadies" and "Filthy Mountain Bikers." All of our GMBN and GCN presenters are highly competitive individuals who enjoy ribbing each other (and slamming Triathletes) as well as their mates in the other discipline. Gravel Bikes are bringing these two groups of cyclists together, albeit kicking and screaming at times.
Be interesting to now give exactly the same bikes to Neil and Blake and use the same track and see what the outcome is. GCN vs GMBN... a video I would really like to see.
this one seems really intresting.....
GMBN refused to do a fair test of timing when it came to 26", 27.5" and 29" - they only tested them on down-hill routes. Across entire mountains (or hills), where climbing is as much of MTB'ing as descending, an equal-trim-level 26" bike will weigh less, ascend better, and completely even out - if not beat - the 29" for an entire route.
@@workingguy6666 lol really? 26er wheels suck in any sort of ledgey/rooty climbing.
@@workingguy6666 29ner is much faster than 26" one. I've got both, and I always am much slower on 26" wheels on trails with good flow rate.
On more technical routes, 26" all the way.
So, this is why I mostly ride on 27,5 inch wheels. It's between them. Fast enough and rigid enough too.
@@mrowczak1900 There's more to it for a true scientific approach. On the plus side, yes, 29" is able to roll better. But all things being equal (I mean equivalent level rims, spokes, tires, drivetrain), the 26" and 27.5" will both have less rotational inertia to overcome - especially at higher speeds where many of us ride gravel (16, 20 MPH). I'm not going accuse you of making the mistake of comparing a modern light-for-its-size 29" drivertain to an archaic 26" design (i.e. rims made for rim braking, heavier old-school crank arms, etc.), but that seems to be how many people compare them. 27.5" is probably good enough/best since no-one seems to be making modern-design 26" rims to make wheels out of.
A mountain biker would keep trying the bridge untill they could clean it..these roadies are only interested in times. Missing the whole point.
I think they were hamming it up to be honest!
Hehe, interesting. I got given a road bike (I'm primarily an MTBer, and ex-dirt jumper), and became obsessed with times, to the point where I was getting migraines after rides. One day, after a long spell out injured, I went for a gentle ride to ease myself back into it, and discovered road riding could be fun if you aren't bursting a lung trying to beat your personal best! Now I keep in mellow and just enjoy the ride, (most of the time).
DevonOnAir exactly!
@@devononair you hit that nail on the head!!
Having ridden the North Shore, North Vancouver on a daily basis back in the day, that step down onto the wet bridge looked about a two out of ten on the difficulty scale and it's always faster to ride something than get off and walk it. It's amazing this video has over 1.2 million views - I suppose that's what happens when a business can establish themselves on CZcams and attract sponsors to donate expensive gear people want to see.
I've been looking at buying my first bike for a couple weeks now. Just something to ride sometimes, so like a $500 bike. Nothing you guys do helps with that buying process, but I love your videos. Cheers.
What did you end up getting?
Get the gt on sale at dicks sporting goods!
@@Bruceillest101 your mom
"In the Future we gone have flying cars"
Future: one special bike to each terrain or discipline, one to pedal near your house, one to pedal in the city, one to go to forest place, one to rocked places, one to sand places.....
Yeah , who cares , just ride !
Spot on .
Better than predicted.
As long as I'm not participating in anything, my MTB is all I need.
@@user-od7hh8qg9d
Same here. I ride my hardtail literally EVERYWHERE.
You forgot one for snow.
I thought CZcams had recommended me an old GCN video when I saw Lloydie actually riding a bike in the thumbnail. I had to double check that it was really posted in 2019.
Only because there was the reward of beer at the end.
đ
GCN: helps a create GMBN with its own presenters just for mountain biking
Also GCN: just puts Simon in a GMBN kit and gives him a mountain bike
Simon won the 2005 Under-23 British National Mountain Biking Championships, so he's more than qualified for this video. Don't let his pretending to not know what he's doing on a mountain bike fool you. Dan Lloyd won the Southern Area Mountain Bike Championships when he was a junior, so he knows what he's doing on a mountain bike too.
This video makes me feel super grateful for the excellent technical trails available for free in the provincial park that I can ride to in less than 5 minutes.
My theory: Gravel bikes are replacing the sense of exploration that MTB used to offer. When we went MTB'ing 20+ years ago it felt and seemed like an adventure into the woods...because it was. We rode singletrack on rarely traversed trails out into the middle of nowhere, with no GPS and no sense of security. Modern MTB parks have completely ruined that experience and the whole sense of adventure. Modern MTB trails are all centrally located trails that are well manicured, artificial feeling, and it seems impossible to escape from civilization on them. Gravel bikes almost seem to be giving that sense of adventure back to people, letting them go farther than ever before, leaving the busy world behind and reconnecting with the outdoors.
@SneakyPants 2.0 My comments denotes bike parks and bike trails. Plenty of singletrack inside protected lands like National Forests are still built/maintained with common best practices. And the difference between that artificial gravel road and trail riding is that most people haven't ridden the gravel road a bazillion times like they have their local MTB trails. Most of us probably have multiple times more mileage of gravel/dirt roads than MTB trails, which is my major point. MTB trailheads look like tailgate events on weekends these days. Head out onto a logging road and you may never see another person for 50 miles.
The country of Scotland does exist you know? and the Lakes, endless miles of amazing natural trails (look up McTrail Rider and tell me you could do the stuff he does on a retro bike).
Modern MTB parks have well maintained trails that are purposely designed and built by bikers that can have much bigger and better features. (that you wouldn't go near on a retro bike) So there's something for everyone depending on what you're into, go to a groomed and "artificial" bike park/trail centre or get lost in the wilds on natural trails. Still want a lightweight bike that has great pedaling efficiency? Get a modern cross country bike, they easily blow retro bikes out the water.
I've had days out on both my full sus mountain bike and my gravel bike where I never saw another rider so that feeling really isn't exclusive to one type of biking
Cheers grandad.
@@cup_and_cone So your issue is with bike parks and not the bike. get a XC bike if you want to ride logging roads and it will be more capable when you come to any single-track.
I agree totally, the sense of freedom is lost in those cycle parks, it's just going round the same old paths with the Dad's and their little kids. The gravel bike works on the road and can go down a farm track and through the woods.
I'll go back to 26" wheels, though not the V-brakes.
26â are more fun in my opinion
I ONLY ride 26".
My man said it all
the boostmaster hiding in plain slight
Jordan, I couldn't agree more, V-brakes sucked! Those Magura hydraulic rim brakes were pretty decent though.
But 26" is far from dead, they're very capable and wheels are stronger imo. Many of my friends jumped on 27.5" because the wheels roll faster and its better for tech. Unfortunately, they still use their brakes just as much đ
Watching you send is effing awesome (Boostmaster indeed) and YOU can certainly benefit from bigger wheels. Now if I could find 26" tires I'd be happy đ
Anybody noticed that GCN just not seems to be a fan of suspensions...?
They unnecessary on most roads and trails. Like Cyrus said they are for jumps.
@@umu-san4414 Idk because jump bikes only have front suspension generally, it's more for being able to take sketchier lines. I can't take the same lines that I do on my hardtail than on my full sus for example. It really improves your grip. But then again I live in wales which is amazing for mountain biking so I can understand their point that it may not be useful on most trails. But it definitely does help with jumps probably saved me a few times when I've cased đ but wouldn't say that was it's main function
@@inkyjet2383 well yeah. Back suspension will make most rides feel smooth. I would say they eat at your speed a little, but if your are in a harsh mountain bike trail better to have stability than extra speed. I'm a roadie at heart so I the hard tail better. Also, most mountain trails in area are okay for gravel and front only suspension.
@@umu-san4414 yea they do definitely slow you down on certain trails but thats mainly on blues and some reds because they are much smoother trails, but if you've got to slow down because you lose grip because you dont have rear suspension then you'll most definitely be slower
Lol Clemens .. du hier đ hoffe dir geht's gut
Bar ends are still the bomb!, I have Bar Ends on all by bikes 26" Scott Yacora(2003) , 29" Monsen 529 ( 2015) , 29" Giant Anthem (2013/7), the additional hand positioning is great on longer rides
You guys had me crying when the music stopped when he gets off the bike on the "narrow" bridge!
the "narrow bridge" would be so easy to just ride over and the gap looked as if you could bunny hop it
@@no_name4485 It's just occurred to me that was probably the joke! What with the whole MTB is / MTBers are boring schtick.
You guts wanna talk music? Check how when the old-less-identifyable-with guy demonstrate the "out of fashion" product, the screen ratio goes 4:9 and the music is a 90s like steady 4-4 beat with static magnetic tape video fx, and when the young--cool-guy demonstrates the product thei're trying to market and sale the aspect ratio goes 16:9 with more "modern" beat and superimposing video fx
@@fernandorendon8618 r/iamverysmart and r/nobodyasked
The reason people ride gravel is they donât get hit by a Car on the pavement.
Very very true....
Perhaps, unless you are an ex bike courier that finds playing through traffic fun.
Go against the traffic!
Yeah but they gotta watch for the tree that might jump in their path.
fucking true
Thank you GCN editing crew for making sure the effects (AND aspect ratio) of the retro MTB portions were also on period! Made me very happy!
Gravel bikes are popular because countries like mine's roads (Philippines) are like gravel trails by itself with potholes and uneven broken road. Perfect for moving around town in a good speed.
Not to mention they are bit more comfy to ride too coz of the bigger tire, more tire suspension. Btw, nice Zaskar, I also have one in red, reviving it.
Tama
First I've thought that mountain bike is equal to bikes having gears. I've had that wrong, and I wished I had a gravel bike instead. So I had my hardtail "upgraded" to gravel specifications, but kept the riser handlebar, as dropbar parts are kinda expensive here in the Philippines.
Thank you for giving bar ends some love. I thought I was their last fan. I still ride then on the trail, and in the wilds of New Mexico no less. It's amazing how doing that on an old school MTB can improve handling skills when on the hoods back on the road. For real!
my man who hates bar ends they're fantastic. Their exclusion on modern bikes is purely a weight and aesthetic thing. They make climbing actually fun instead of just pure pain.
@@holben27 The old Brama Bars were lighter than bar ends. Arguably, one third the weight of a bar and ends.
At least, when they came out.
I put bar ends inside grips on 700mm handlebar. This is perfect!
Bar ends ... Like curb feelers for mountain bikes. What a waste of money. And they look stupid, too. They scream out, "Hey, look at me! I hope you notice me!"
As a person who does both MTB and road, I find it hilariously ironic to call MTB boring.
"Includes paid promotion" says it all, really.
Ain't this the truth!
Don't worry, nobody's attacking you. Obviously mountain biking is fun and the bikes are better at it than ever before...
However they're completely right ... just from the wrong angle. The orginal mountain bikes were ... really gravel bikes. They evolved into the mountain bikes we have today and left a gap which is now called gravel bikes... but really 99% of mountain bikes actually purchased and 99% of off tarmac MTB bike rides in the 90s ... gravel bikes/rides by today's standards.
And so I completly agree - of course riding a modern full suspension high tech bike on a mixed gravel path only is a bit overkill. People miss the old mountain bikes because they were the gravel bikes of their day. It's like how cars keep getting fatter and bigger but keep the same model name, then a new smaller model slips in - we had mountain bikes, then cross country bikes, now gravel bikes ... it's all just a class of bikes for people who ride on bike paths and trails as well as roads ... so a heck of a lot of people
To be honest what I really miss from the 90's is bike prices. There's always been cheap shit and specc'd to the 9's expensive ... but the mid range quality bikes are now considerably more expensive when adjusted for inflation. Technology moves on and they're better materials... but it's also been 25 years lol.
@David Kemp he said it was ironic. not that it was offensive. chill
@David Kemp I don't think it WAS a joke. They even joke at how silly it sounds to say such a thing. That's acknowledging that it isn't a joke.
I'm still having just as much fun with my hard tail as the day i bought it!
Hard tails rock. donât they?
@@davidziemelis1593 They sure do! I've got second one since posting this, a Fatbike I did up. It kicks ass! I'd love a dual suspension bike, but then I might be tempted to try downhill, and my body doesn't handle crashes as good as it use to. LoL
Which hardtail do you have?
@@lukasmovnik6084 A Focus Black Forest. Absolutely love it!
@@Spacegoat92 Nice
I still get a big kick riding uk trails on my 90s Specialized Hardrock HT rigid forks. Gotta luv retro mtb
I just completed a gravel race yesterday with a 90s MTB, fully rigid, was perfect really.
Yep. Wish I still had mine.
Never expected that I will came across with Hacks and Rides in this channel!Im a subscriber and your restored mtb was so cool!Hope you post more vids!
@@notkray8468 wow thanks a lot for the nice words! For sure I watch GCN! I really enjoy their tech videos.
Hours and hours on a flat-bar one-hand position. How perfect can that be?
@@ernie12man only 3 hours, no big deal. Although with maybe a longer ride some bull horns would be good.
Gravel bikes exist because bike companies needed a new category to sell...
Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!
+1
I'd say that statement is more applicable to plus size wheels and fat bikes. Gravel bikes are the new road bike for normal people
true
indeed
"How many of us actually have those trails on their doorsteps"
Me. I do. I moved somewhere that requires it, because I really love mountain biking...
I just happen to live within 2 hours of three world class MTB parks. Bikes are for everyone, I think that if youâre (not you kind sir who Iâm replying to)(Iâm replying to anyone who says that anything with two wheels is boring) finding yourself bored in your rig, then you mustnât be making the ride interesting. One of my best friends rides only roadies and he finds ways to challenge himself, thank goodness for Strava.
With a MTB, you can always improve, if you donât have a sweet as bike park near you, build a jump, build a berm, go riding with a buddy, race your buddy.
Theirs no such thing as being bored, just people with boring personalities.
Look at me, Iâm getting so keyed up about something that if I hadnât wanted to watch this video voluntarily, Iâd have never felt this way in the first place.
:D. CZcams.
Everyone living in the mountains or even close to hilly country parts can ride cool trails.
How many people live in a major mountain range though, thatâs the point. Most people are way overbiked for where they live
Actually Ben you just proved the point, you had to MOVE to get near challenging trails. How many people can/will do that? Pretty close to zero Iâd guess
I live really close to where the ews was taken place In Chile.
I used to LOVE those narrow MTB bars years ago. I can't imagine them now.
In reality, I ride my drop-bar gravel bike miles on gravel and paved roads in order to get to short intervals of true trails. I readily surrender slower trail performance for the much faster and more comfortable travel on those lengthy improved surfaces. This is the market segment which gravel bikes are targeted, and at which they excel.
Fully agree. i have nothing against MTB's.. love them in fact. Their defenders here are idiots though... "buy a hardtail?" Laughs. They'd get dropped inside a 1/2 mile riding out where I live... I've seen it happen! I'm the RD for the High Plain Grinder.. MTB's can't compete on gravel. End of story.
â@@SteveBell1967 If I *had* to make one bike do everything, I'd buy an 29er XC bike with a spare 700c wheel set for the gravel use case. XC tires are light and fast rolling by mountain bike standards, but even so they're rubbish on roads compared to a gravel tire. If you look at gravel bike frames they aren't all that different from XC mountain bike frames -- a little lower in the bottom bracket, a little less tire clearance. So proper wheels and tires would help a lot. The thing is, wheels aren't cheap, and your'e still stuck on a flat bar, so it's probably false economy.
@@grumpynerd The problems we're seeing with modern 29" MTB's is that the top-end gearing is only really made for 20 MPH, maybe 21 MPH. On gravel, with the wind working with you, that's not enough - I have to imagine it's even more-so with down-hill gradients, but it's completely flat where we ride. The old-school triple chain-rings of the 26-incher era bring a lot more to the gravel riding experience. Modern MTB single-front-chainrings fall flat for a 'do everything' platform, which is why GCN made this video. I'm still shocked that they made it, but they've earned a big kudos for doing so. I'm sure the reasoning will be lost on folks who have only ever owned the modern versions of XC mountain bikes - they just don't seem to know the limitations of them.
@@DannyHanny_ It's still possible to config mountain bikes with 2x drivetrains, although that's stock only on low end bikes. Aftermarket chainrings for 1x setups are available up to 42 teeth depending on your crankset, which pared with a 10-50t XD cassette gets you within spitting distance of what comes on some gravel bikes, albeit with about a 3 watt penalty. That's nothing, though, compared to the losses from being in the wrong riding position. Maybe if they still made those old Scott AT-3 handlebars...
@@grumpynerd Yeah, it's generally known that anyone can put any front chainring on that they'd want to on a 1x system, but I've been cycling for 30 years, and have only ever seen chainrings changed out for specific riding when flat-landers are vacationing (or moving to) hilly areas. Be honest - nobody is changing 1x rings out per ride on a weekly basis. A modern 29" mtb with a 1x just isn't getting changed over for mtb'ing on Saturday, then changed again gravel on Sunday. An education on the possibilities isn't what is needed here; a facing of the realities of folks and their bikes is. Granted, a XC MTB racer may change a front ring to compete in a gravel race once in a while, but generally it isn't happening, and the flexibility that is there (on paper) isn't being realized when it takes time to change mechanical parts.
Thanks, Dan and Si, this presentation has everything--bar ends, triples, big air! And I grin and thank you again for this comparison of gravel and retro mountain bikes. And mutant does work better than hybrid. And suddenly I seem a little more rad, heading off to work on my mutant.
"Hybrid" gets a bum rap. When I hear that term I think of something with a chrome fenders, white wall tires, a wide leather seat with steel springs and a wicker basket on the handlebars. I like "mutant" (or "Frankenbike") for those end user co-op hodge podge creations but nowadays the big brands are pushing marketing buzz words like "dual sport." As for the "modern" hybrids, my wife loves her Trek FX2 - and I have to admit that it's not half bad. It's her first bike though; she's never ridden a full rigid MTB with a steel frame - but my back remembers! It may weigh a little more, but a suspension fork with even just 100mm of travel is a good thing to have.
@@kwaktak I agree, hybrid isn't the worst name, just that over time it has become, I think, a synonym for a big-box bike category: Comfort Bike. Ugh, that one is the worst. And a mutant sounds like our equivalent to a rat rod, something tough and cool and cobbled together by its owner.
"Don't drink this, it's not gluten-free"
That was so mean! đ
Nonetheless, that was quite an entertaining *and* instructive video, thanks mates, and cheers! đ
I was a bicycle mechanic from 1990 to 1992 - this video brought back some memories. Thanks guys!
What do you do now? đŽ
@@honpaul2203 Computer software tester - I get paid to break stuff. :)
That Mutant got to be one of the most amazing looking bikes ever to be featured on GCN. Genuinely awesome.
Cyclocross bike: "am I a joke to you ?"
I changed my tires on my gravel bike in a need for a cyclocross competition... It feels complete different and it makes way harder, slower and sometimes impossible to ride a lot of trails, where a gravelbike-tire is easily capible of... Not all rider have the skills like cyclocross pros to compensate this issue...
When you can put 40mm wide or wider tires on a cyclocross bike... Voila, you have a very good bike, wihch is nearly capible the same as gravelbikes... But the geometry isn't optimized for this purpose...
@@maniac0303 BikeRadar did such test. Which tire will be better - 2", but less grippier, 35mm with aggressive thread, 40mm, with less aggressive thread. 40 mm won.
When you canât run wider than a 38mm tire, yes đ€Ł
The first winner of Dirty Kanza was a cross bike. This take on gravel by GCN is completely wrong. That's not a surprise, since gravel riding/racing emerged in the US. Gravel emerged with road and cross riders, often the same people, whimsically mimicking the harsh riding conditions of Belgian cobblestone racing. Hence, the many gravel rides in the US with "Roubaix" in the title.
Yes.
I love how the old mountain bike scene is in 4:3 and the new gravel bike scene is in 2,35:1. Great!
I didn't catch your ratios lol...
I love my 26" hoo koo e koo, straight/short bar, long stem. Its great for climbing and xc trails. Love the feel of the chromoly frame. More important than anything though is after 20 years I have just gotten so used to it. I can lean on it one way, twist / turn my legs, hips torso and thighs and I know how it will respond. I took the bar ends off but really dont miss them that much honestly.
Si and Dan riding together on a GCN video? Finally! Felt like ages!
Started watching, seen Dan in his cycling gear - knew this was going to be a good content - wasn't disappointed. Loved that Orange/Yellow paint job on the Lauf.
Watching you guys walking that bridge over that ditch hurt my '90s XC riding heart
This is why I love my Trek Marin from 2003: the frame geometry on this hardtail mountain bike makes it versatile on and off-road (especially if you switch between sets of wheels with road tires and off-road tires). The mechanical disc brakes provide plenty of stopping power and are clearly superior to V-brakes or Cantilever brakes, but they're not silly and finicky like hydraulic disc brakes. The front suspension also really takes the edge off of poorly maintained and battered roads riddled with potholes that we find in Canada, so it makes the perfect commuter bike, too.
Trek Marin? Trek and Marin are competitors.
Similar situation here. My medium grade (hard tail) mountain bike from 1997 apparently makes an ideal gravel bike in 2022. The frame dimensions are similar, hard tail, etc. Hold on to your old stuff long enough and it will be back in fashion again, it seems!
Instead of using my gravel bike as a "less capable" mtb compared to my dual-sus trail bike, I bought it to be a more versatile road bike. I was using my trail bike for weekend fun and my steel road bike for commuting with panniers, but carrying gear on the latter was harsh on myself and the bike on anything but nice roads with 25c tyres. The gravel bike with 42c tyres has opened up a whole range of possibilities such as bikepacking and back-road/path commuting with bags or panniers that would be impractical on the trail bike but still dangerous or harsh on the road bike. I also like that the on-road efficiency of the gravel bike is pretty close to my road bike and far higher than my mtb with 2.5" tyres. I think gravel bikes are a good contender for the best "all-round" bike, as they are more fun and capable than standard commuter/touring bikes, but a bit more practical and efficient on-road than XC mountain bikes (especially in terms of gear mounting options - my gravel bike can mount 5 water bottles!).
That's exactly what I've used my gravel bike for. Got rid of my flat bar road bike, and replaced it with a drop bar gravel bike, far more versatile. I have taken my gravel bike on mountain bike trails, but for anything that's even slightly gnarly, I do think that my mountain bike is more fun.
What about Randonneuring bikes?
The old Top Gear vibes I'm getting from this video is soothing to my soul
Learn to drive!
I've recently revived my 2000 GT Tempest, its now sporting wider bars, shorter stem, new rims and modern (wider) rubber and some new (lighter) Rockshoxs. I put some essentially gravel tyres on, pumped them up to 50psi and took it for a spin on my 15 mile off road training circuit. It SMASHED all my sector times I set on my 29er Hardtail. I was climbing faster and it was mega fun down the quicker sections. Its now getting a modern drive chain. The 2 month old 29er hasn't left the garage since I started playing with the GT. The V-Brakes are killing me though!
I,m still riding a 26â alloy hard tail with bar ends and disc brakes, and loving it! :)
And whatâs with walking over the bridge?
Noticed when Simon did it, it was quite springy wondered if they thought it might snap if they rode fast over it
Comedic effect, I think.
One of the things I've noticed in these "retro" bike reviews is that the retro bikes usually have some serious unaddressed maintenance issues -- in this case a bad fork.
If you can't do a proper service job on the forks, it's like doing a retro car review on a car that needs new ball joints and tie rod ends; of course it'll be rubbish. A fairer comparison would be with a fully rigid bike from the 1990s. Also, non-race bikes from that era had larger tires -- 1.95 was more typical.
Finally, c'mon guys. Ride that skinny bridge. Retro mountain biking was supposed to be terrifying.
1.9 was pretty normal for 90s MTBs, but even in the early 90s you started seeing wider tires, one odd trend was the really wide front tire and narrow rear.
@@mrvwbug4423 some bigger brands still do that on their entry level MTBs. Trek Marlins come with 2.2" up front, 2.0 in the rear.
They work for people who sell new bikes. Older bikes will be always slower in these tests.
@@mrvwbug4423 I don't think the effect of tire width on rolling was understood back in the day. Even today some fat bikers run fatter tires in front on the theory that the front tire will have more traction (correct) and the rear tire will roll faster (not necessarily).
@@mrvwbug4423 yeah, my mate had 3 inch farmer john on his muddy fox front wheel?
I took my Trek Crockett CX bike fitted with the widest tires that would fit to an MTB trail that became boring as I got more skilled. That boring trail is now fun again. Blasting down narrow single track on a gravel or CX bike is a ton of fun.
Yeah, I love riding my CX bike on single track. It makes it fun. I can fit 42mm (more on the front if I want) tires on it with 700s. (Giant TCX). If I put 650b wheels on it, I can fit 1.9/2.1" MTB tires and it drops the BB a bit and transforms the bike into something even more stable on rougher stuff, just a bit less responsive/fun on easy stuff. I wouldn't take it downhill on a boulder covered mountain, but I don't have one of those handy anyway.
Awesome cinematic timetravel, love the idea with the 4:3 and the 2:35 : 1 bars!
No one:
Men wearing Licra: We need to make Mountain Bikes Worse...
I am still riding my 2006 Ghost 26"HT MTB with narrow flat handlebars and bar ends with great pleasure. And it is still fast!
+1 I've got a 2005 Gary Fisher Ziggurat 26" with bar ends that I ride gravel with about 3 times a week! Glad to hear the love for bar ends.
I have a 2007 Corridore with carbon front fork 26" and mavic crossland STs, narrow bars and ends that gets daily use. It flies down proper trails and overtakes things on the road. Still want a proper full suspension bike for more serious trips though
Put 700mm handlebar and move bar ends inside grips. So you still have bar ends benefits and all good stuff from wide handlebar too!
Who spotted the Squirrel at 12:56?
The one si is hiding in his pants?
13:00
Was out on my 1992 Specialized Stumpjumper today and did a âgravelâ ride and had a right good time.
Used the bar ends loads as they are great for when you need to push on a bit.
Now going to slap on some drops and go a true mutant gravel/mtb freakbike
I invented a new type of bike called a pavement bike. It's like a gravel bike, but for pavement. It's completely different from a gravel, road or track bike, which are definitely not literally the exact same thing with different components. Next year I'll invent an asphalt bike.
Haha - they go "back in time" and still have front suspension.
Of course, it's been around since the 90's, it's just much more advanced now, and having a full suspension bike back then was more rare and a big deal and mainly came out in the late 90's.
Letâs be honest here, Dan only agreed to get muddy because the bikes had bottle openers.
I remember wanting one of those Raleigh's as a kid.
I had a 94 Zaskar LE until it got stolen in 2010, Pace RC35 forks it was stunning in a burnish finish. That bike in the intro brought back memories............ I used to ride the Afan Valley trails with guys from work on it, I remember following/racing them down some trails and when we stopped my knees were literally knocking together with fear, I'd never experienced anything like it before, and never have since. Every fibre of my body was screaming 'brake' whilst we kept pedalling.
As for this gravel bike, I'm reminded of the early 80's when we took drop handled bikes and put "cow horns" on them. The cow horns were very wide, very low handle bars making our drops off roaders, and allowing us to wheelie for a few hundred feet for the first time.
Loved this one. I've got a 1998 GT Avalanche. It's brilliant for the local woodland trails. Got me back into cycling again.
2016 GT Aggressor over here. Enjoy it every week. Gravel, road, or trails.
1997 GT Avalanche here. Maybe 98. These videos just encourage me to keep my "old bike" :)
"Getting aero for the good bits" sums up the disconnect with actual mountain biking here
It wasn't unheard of to see aero bars on MTBs in the 90s. Bar ends were pretty standard (and are still amazing for climbing).
@@mrvwbug4423 Yep, owned some bar ends myself. It's just that climbing and bits where you could reasonably "get aero" are not really what I, or many others, would qualify as "the good bits" in mtb.
Salvatore Gravano I hope I never have to ride a hardtail 26er again. I say that with all due respect having ridden mountain bikes since the early 90âs...my old back appreciates the squish!
Agreed, but this isn't about actual mountain biking, as Dan and Si were quick to point out. I use a mountain bike for my local trail centres, but anything else rough-roady? Somthing with drop bars (ideally) or bar ends.
@@mrvwbug4423 Aren't they banned now in races? And from many trail centres for that matter? Danger of spiking someone in a crash, or something?
I live near the alps. Started with 26â 50mm metal spring Hardtail 12 years ago. Switched to a 120 mm fully about 6 years ago and am now riding a 160mm Enduro. I think it does not get boring just way harder on the climbs and waaaaay faster on the descents. Means that I am using a convertible fullface helmet, back protector and kneepads now. And I am not the only one.
This video was very cathartic for me to today, because I currently ride a 26" wheel DMR Trailstar 2 with DJ2 fork, and it's too heavy for the kind of XC riding I do. I have been looking for something new and light, and to my dismay, the modern off-the-peg MTB is so overbiked! They're all huge and heavy! What's with 2.6" tyres everywhere? I had those years ago and it was like riding a tractor. There are some light XC bikes around, but they're few and far between. The terrain I ride is definitely too much for a gravel bike, but I love the lightweight simplicity of them!
I was seriously blown away when getting a bike for my son last Christmas, browsing at the mountain "bikes" at the bike shop. They look like motorcycles and seem to require a similar amount of tools / skills to maintain. I keep coming back to my 1997/98 GT Avalanche and apologizing to it for looking at other bikes :)
I just "frankensteined" my early 90-s Peugeot non-suspended 26" mountain bike into a winter/bad weather commuter by installing drop bars, road crankset/front derailleur, mudguards and a luggage rack. I'm going to put studded tires on it and use it to ride to work in the winter. Yes, it's heavy but otherwise quite useable for the 12 km trip to work when the weather is such that I don't want to ride my road bike.
I believe you are going to regret that in five our ten years.
@@andrebartels1690 Well, I still have all the original parts.
I've done the same to a 90s mountain bike. It's my go-anywhere bike. Only cost me $50 plus conversion parts!
I just put heavier duty tires on my '84 Norco Avanti SL cruiser & it handles everything the mountain bikers keep insisting will wreck it/spell my impending doom. The skinnier tires go through snow drifts a lot better as well. Fenders would be nice for spring & fall, though. I also put 90's mountain bike twist shifters on the ends of the drop bars to eliminate the reach to the down tube to shift. They're also easier to shift while wearing globes. Also $50 (20 years ago) plus conversion parts.
I've actually been saying this for years. I currently have three bikes in my stable. A YT Jeffsy, Giant Trance, ans Diamonsback Overdrive. The overdrive is a very entry level beginners bike and is very much like what I rode in the 90's. It cost less than $500 new and truthfully I take it out on occassion and have a total blast on it! Trails that are boring on my modern bikes come alive on the overdrive! Contrary to all the crap you read on facebook in the mountain bike groups you don't have to spend a ton of money to have fun. In fact you can sometimes have more fun on these simple bikes! Not saying I'm giving up my modern bikes because I often do ride technical trails where a more capable bike does make a difference but for the vast majority of riding a simple bike is more enjoyable!
I took an old 26 inch mtb from 20some years ago, stripped away all the components, kept only the alu frame and rebuilt it with single chainring, hollowtech 2 bottom bracket, sram 10 speed cassette, carbon fiber fork, seatpost and handlebar, lightweight mavic 26 aluminium wheels, and Vbrakes. The whole thing weighs just 10kg, is super responsive, fun to ride and has near-zero maintenance... And it only cost me about 650 bucks to build.
Great one! And yes, bring bar ends back! Theyâre so so good âŠbeing able to change position of your hands on the bar is essential IMO
In 2001 I had a frame made for me built for 26" wheels (standard mtb wheel size then), with clearance for tyres up to 2 ins. and mounts for V-brakes. Most of the rest of the bike was built more or less around a road bike design with drop bars and stay clearance for a triple chainset. Groupset was Shimano Ultegra.
It had been an idea that had been buzzing around my head for the previous ten years, initially inspired by US pro MTB racer John Tomac who always preferred drops on his mountain bike when he was racing in the 1980's. The bike I ended up with was an absolute dream. I took it to the Atlas Mountains in Morocco off-road for a week with a group of mountainbikers shortly after it was finished and it held its own. Since then I've raced it, trained and toured on it. A few years ago I had it re-fitted with disc brakes and an upgraded transmission (still triple!) and still getting tons of fun out of it.
Not sure if there are any other contenders, but I think I might be able to claim to have unwittingly come up with a gravel bike over 15 years before anyone had even thought of the name.
Daddy Longlegs i have a Kona Hot that I bought new in 1995. Rode the wheels off it and in 2010 sent it to Tom Teesdale to replace a damaged top tube and weld on disc brake mounts. Turned it into a commuter bike after that. Now Iâm going to put on 650B wheels shod with 40mm tubeless tires, a drop bar with brifters, and presto - gravel bike! Iâll never part with it. Sure Iâve got a carbon road bike, Carbon full suspension mtb, and even a fatbike, but the Kona can replace all of them! RIP Tom Teesdale.
JT is legendary, he races DH with dropĂŒbars! :-) I personally could not imagine that
Dan promising to get rad? Try the Random Tandem. Martyn, if you're watching, recruit Lloydy. We all want to see that.
I love how you guys wear your tights even when just standing around or riding tiny sections. Clearly without them that 3â jump would have only been 2â. đ€Ł
Cool video. I still ride my mountain bike from the 90's and wasn't aware of all the developments and different categories. This was helpful.
They have a good point though, most mountain bikers, especially where I am (flat old Florida) have most certainly âoverbikedâ themselves with $7,000 carbon full suspensions.
Then travel, when this stupid coronavirus settles down, put the bike on a rack on your car and travel to places on trips on your weekend to places for good riding.
hope they travel with them somewhere worthwhile... If not what a waste
7000 bucks...yeah dirt bike for me lol
@@iggyblitz8739 Kind of ruins the point of a bike though, having to stick it on the back of a car to take it somewhere to ride.
@@TheDoosh79 Tell that to people who race or mountain bikers. Using a bike as a way to get around and using a bike as a hobby CAN be very different. On that same concept... Most long distance runners I know don't run to get everywhere, they still own cars.
Ballsy to the roadie who chose the title of this video. As a mountain biker, I'm so glad I watched the video first before I roasted GCN in the comments.
Yeah especially when they tiptoe over that bridge. Suddenly those monster truck tires make sense đ
czcams.com/video/bVk_UPTxM78/video.html
Lmao
I had a Specialized Rockhopper back in the 90âs-hard tail with no suspension fork-and I LOVED it. I rode it everywhere.
I recognise this place! I trained and played here as I lived right next door to this wood. Riding bikes similar to the ti Raleigh in the video. Great test guys. Long live the sketchy, narrow bared bikes that rode these woods for many years.
That part when they got off and carry the bike through the small bridge đ
Would love to see a video with timed runs comparing the gravel bike to a modern xc hardtail. And to hear which is more fun.
Very interesting for those of us who lived through it all. In the early 60âs a mountain / gravel /road bike had 28â wheels back pedal brakes wide handlebars and was ridden every where.
Yeah we all had those as kids in the 70s a road bike with the widest bars you could get hold of. We called them trackers.. And yeah we went everywhere on them except for narrow passageways đ
"How many of us actually have those trails on their doorsteps" Face Slap
Right? Iâve lived in three large cities and all had multiple good trail systems within their metro areas.
13:00 Squirrel!
I really like how you guies did the âWayneâs Worldâ scene transition! That was pretty nice homage.
And the VHS-effects were great too.
nice video, loved the square scenes haha. we see "over biked" in the offroad community like crazy. all these people i see with $20k in axles, lower gears in diffs and transfer case, $15k in armor, triple lockers, 40"+ tires.. it's like "congratulations, you've outfitted your rig to do the 2 hardest trails in the state but after you do them both in a week then what?" i like my pretty stock and often overlooked model that i can have fun on a 2-4 rated trail and test myself on 5-7 rated trails. also puts a smile on my face to summit somewhere and only see rigs near the $100k mark and i'm in my $8k Xterra with a $1k lift.
my buddy's buddy did it with a Jeep, even ran the tires half filled with water at 4psi, said it was boring as hell. have to tow it everywhere then he'd turn the idle up and do nothing until he was at the top, no technique, no problem solving, it was point and shoot. he didn't have it long before he sold it for an open diff Samurai on 33" tires to have some real fun.
I replaced my mountain bike and road bike with a gravel bike. So far so good! The most fun mountain bike I had was a single speed rigid 29er!
Drinking Duvel from the bottle, hurts my Belgian heart
dont cry son, i also drink duvel from the bottle and i'm belgian. it's still very good
Exactly what I was thinking đ
I suppose it could be worse, they could be drinking ABT12 straight from the champagne bottle.
How is this even possible? Doesn't it just foam up like hell in your mouth?
blasphemy !!!
1:52 "Who has that sort of terrain on their doorsteps?" - Dan, ME! I LIVE IN PNW!!!
Hahaha, I thought the same thing. As we all know having a bike for the gnar and for the smooth stuff is necessary. No need to see the two at odds with each other.
Donât tell!
Me, I live in the rockies. I have amazing trails 20 minutes away, and am a 5 hour drive from Crested Butte, and 7 hour drive from Moab.
I live in Tucson AZ so it's literally in my backyard. 4 hrs to Sedona and another 3-4 hrs from there to Moab.
But.... I do agree and I've always though the 'new' gravel bikes were just wannabe oldskool mountain bikes.
Me too. North Shore. I rode my retro MTB here a few times and nearly died.
This had me laughing! Such a great video. I am a new biker, started with a gravel bike! Learning a lot from your contents :)
Early 90ies was exactly when i had my active biker days. The GT Zaskar with the 50mm front suspension was the absolute top notch you could get back then. Looking to get back into mountainbiking. Seems like nobody is using click pedals or those horns on the handle bar any more.
Oh you roadies never learn đ€Ł
I love how you whipped it over that gigantic jump, in the beginning of the course đđ #justsendit
Looked more like a little table top than a whip.
@@mattgies I wasn't talking about the shape of the jump, friend. When you hang the back end of the bike out sideways, mid air, it's called a whip đ
Yeah and I clocked the air time at about 13.5715 seconds. To get an accurate reading I did it in slow motion.
@@albertbatfinder5240 We always present the air time-numbers with four decimals in this forum. Accuracy is important đđ
@@86Hasse A table top is a trick where you bring the bike flat like a table not just a style of jump. It this. rideukbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/w-RonnieNap-3table.jpg
Yes, that's the spirit. Having a nice Duvel after a ride.
You did it guys. You've convinced me to turn one of my retro MTBs into a gravel bike. I'd seriously consider buying a proper gravel bike but....$$$ Nice presentation, but oh, for that walk-of-shame over that tiny little wood-bridge! C'mon now, go back there and show us how it's really done! (preferably in the rain)
Is this the first video with Dan riding since Mallorca? Love it! And that video with Gmbn how to jump like a pro from like 2015 must have really done the job. Looking rad ;)
1:20 hahaha you guys are hilarious. Thank you for the laughter. :D
Firstly, GREAT CHANNEL!!! Also, yes, bar ends on an MTB are cool! Quick question... since you mentioned "hybrid bikes aren't exactly the coolest bikes around town" could you do a video on Hybrid vs Gravel bikes? What is the real difference between the two? Is it mainly the drop handlebars vs the riser / flat mountain bike style? The hybrid having a frame with a more upright position, with the handlebars typically level or higher with the seat, which seems to make them more similar to many MTBs. They both seem to be a cross between a road bike and mountain bike with with tire sizing between the two. The gravel bike appears to be leaning more toward the road bike side often with the non-suspension front fork and drops while the hybrid bike appears to be leaning more toward the mountain bike side often with the suspension front fork and flat / riser handlebars.
Perhaps the Trek Dual Sport 4 would be a good example of a mid level $1000 hybrid bike for which to compare a gravel bike.
At one point in this video you seemed to be far happier with the hybrid bike when you nicknamed it to a "mutant"... that is what got me wondering.
Thanks in advance!
Interesting watch!
I'm still riding my old retro specialised rockhopper and keeping up and also out pacing my mates about half the time who are on 27.5's and 29's especially on real technical downhill single track stuff. Obviously not red bull rampage size downhill but reasonable sized jumps etc. I love that bike, defo not interested in actually going 29 tbh! And i prefer the look of the bike, and actually having plenty of bloody gears! lol