A Great Motorcycle Ruined By Bureaucracy - The Triumph Trident T150
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2024
- In this Rare Motorcycles documentary, we go into the history of one the best motorcycles ever that faced probably the WORST production on ramp of all time ruined by company bean counters and horrific corporate decisions that hurt a bike that had INSANE potential. This is the full story of the Triumph Trident T150 which was the first real main stream British Triple.
This video aims to provide a short history of these unique and rare motorcycles so you can learn about them in a quick, easy to digest video.
*Note, we are not historians. If you see an error in our research then please mention it in the comments!
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I have a 1973 t150. Bought new by my dad and passed on to 20 years ago. That bike was the fastest thing I could imagine when I was a kid. Its still plenty fast today. That triple sound is addictive.
I bet you wouldn't sell it for any money.
I bought a 1973 t150 brand new in 73. A good bike. I was newly married and we rode everywhere together. It handled exceptionally well.
I bought a new Bonneville in 1970 because it was the BEST looking bike and was $1385.
Had a good reputation and local dealers. 52 hp was fast & light.
I had a T150 1973. It sounded great but was at heart a pushrod British design that was never really worked out in terms of the details . Just trying to get the pushrod tubes to stop leaking was an ordeal.
Apparently, draining all the oil out works a treat! 😂
@@malcolmwhite3567Shit on your shoes.
I had a T150V, square tank shape, five speed gear box, drum brakes. Fairly quick in it's day. Still on a Triumph today, the 1200 Bonneville. 🙂
Me to 2017 1200 Bonne
I owned numerous Triumph and BSA bikes, and rode the Nortons. In the late 1960’s the British bikes were generally lighter and handled better than the contemporary Japanese machines. Additionally they looked better to the average American motorcyclist. But the new bikes from Japan were of better quality, and even the 50 cc Honda Cub came with a reliable electric start. Triumph didn’t get the footbrake and shifter on the proper side until the 1970’s. The motors needed a top end after 7000 miles, and the Lucas electrical components were wholly unreliable. A 5 speed gearbox was another long delayed upgrade. As much as I loved my 1970 Triumph Bonneville, any Honda 750 was a far more comfortable and sophisticated machine, especially for a ride longer than an hour.
Additional corporate decisions that didn't help were that BSA didn't sanction the purchase of new machine tools to make the cylinder barrels. The result was that the old jig borers left the cylinders oval. There was a flood of warranty claims that damaged the bike's reputation. Internally, the components that made up the major moving parts were one and a half Triumph 500cc twins. They stuck with the push rod configuration because BSA would never agree to the budget to build a more up to date motor.
Not the only machinery that BSA didn't buy, the board had ignored updating the machine shop for decades. They were still using machinery bought before world war 2.
I think the only modern part of the factory was the assembly line at Small Heath.
While over in Japan, Honda built new machinery to make the parts for every new model, so they could make them 4x faster for the same number of workers.
I owned a '69 Trident with coffin tank and Flash Gordon pipes. No CB 750 ever handled like this. A joy to ride despite a carb return spring that I think they got from a couch. Refreshing to hear the story told without blaming the unions.
Unfortunately have not owned a Triumph or BSA triple yet (but looking at a T160 right now). Have owned BMW K75S and 2 Laverda RGS' (red & silver ones) and their 3 cylinder sounds/music are magical.
I had a 1974 T150 with Dunstall pipes. The sound from those Dunstalls was exquisite. It had the Sundance Gold scalloped tank, and in a moment of financial need I sold it. Alas.
I have 3 buddies who gave up motorcycling because they were devoted to Tridents. The engines were an S.O.B. to assemble, and a real 'dogs' breakfast' of a design. On the other hand, a properly built engine would go 50,000 miles, and the handling was as good as you'd find back then.
How do these qualify as rare motorcycles?
Because they are rare.
@@BigAl53750 Total production numbers 1968-76: 27,480 BSA Rocket 3: 5,897. I guess I have a more stringent definition of what qualifies as rare.
I currently have a 1975 T160 Trident and if I dare say, it’s little brother, a 1976, T140 Bonneville, both in the process of rebuild, down to the last bolt and screw, but one thing that sticks in my craw, with your video, is the failure to use the correct insignia for Triumph Motorcycles at the time when the T150, T160 was produced. I respect with great appreciation the later genesis of the Triumph Brand but it needs to be accepted that this is the new Triumph, and not the Triumph of the period of the T150 and T160 Trident or the original T110, T120 or the T140 Bonneville. Please use the correct insignia when referring to the period during which the T150 and T160 were produced.otherwise a very well presented historical account of the successes and regrettably failure of the Triumph, and ultimately the NVT brand.
Why is there library footage of the Jawa factory in this film about Triumph T150/T160? Otherwise a nice little video. Thank you.
Because a computer made the whole video and not a person
A tragic tale,of a magic motorcycle - makes you think that the BSA Group management must have featured a fair few halfwits amongst it's number! Great vid!
I worked many hours on five or six of those bikes back in the early seventies. The engine of the Triumph and BSA triples was a nightmare. Crankshaft bearings hardly lasted 10k km. The babbit would be gone and the copper was exposed. Probably due to cold motor oil because the oilcooler did not have a thermostat. Leaking valves, holes in pistons, a clutch bearing which was ill designed and had no chance to last for 10 or 15k kms. Extreme oil consumption was caused by soft, wire like pistonrings. Factory time for disassembly and reassembly of the vertically split (gigantic mistake) engine was 14 hours, but it usually took you half a week. The bikes probably never had 50 hp and would not run right with the standard silencers. All in all they were pieces of junk in the average and contributed to the demise of Norton Villiers Triumph. The last model with the electic start engine and gearshifter on the left side was down to around 35 hp and was totally overweight in comparison. Engine sound was great and they handled well. My BSA Rocket with the chrome tank even looked beautiful.
Honda CB750 was released in 1969 not 1968!
and no mention of the Hurricane.
The Hurricane bugged me for years, just didn't look Triumph to me. Looking at a picture of one years later and it hit me, hell that's a BSA! Can't believe it took me that long to figure it out.
Love my T160. Best looking and best running of the British triples. BTW, the first triple engine for motorcycles was built by Curtis around 1907-1909 although admittedly it wasn't popular and produced in any real numbers due to extra cost.
Nice vid,
Good info.
Like look of the 70's Triumphs with the US spec teardrop tanks rather than the boxy shaped ones we got on UK triumphs
t160 was far better looking .
The Ogle design was the biggest killer, far bigger than "BSA wanting their own triple". The BSA frame is arguably better than the Triumph (double cradle, all welded, Triumph is single down tube and bolt up) and "different cases so the cylinders angled fwd " was a hassle, but not that big a deal with what could have been volume production bikes.
The huge US market was the main focus. That market LOVED the Bonneville, but wanted more power. The P1 prototype was ready in 1965, and could have been produced THEN. It looked "exactly like a Bonneville with more power."
But oh no. Management (especially Lionel Jofeh, who (amazingly) "knew nothing about motorcycles/didn't even like them????" ) said they had to "all be restyled", hence the Ogle design.
NO ONE liked the design. BSA hurriedly made some "more traditional/rounded tank" bikes , (for the US only, but not many, apart from the Hurricane, which was a BSA, but sold as a Triumph, as BSA broke by the time it was ready ), but they were broke by 72. Triumph sent "beauty kits" to America which made the Triumph version "look like Bonnevilles" (at great expense) to make them look like they should have at the start.
So, your biggest market asks for a Bonneville lookalike that you can have ready 3 years before Honda 4's, but no, stuff that, wait for Honda/redesign style of bikes to NOT want the customer wants. Lunacy.
Having said that, I have a Triumph 74 T150v with a 1,000cc Hyde kit, and have had that for 30 years, currently almost finished full rebuild. They take a lot to keep going, but when they go, they GO. I'll never sell it. I'd have a BSA Rocket 3 "just to have one" if one came along at the right price. But I'll have to make do with my 62 BSA A10.
From 1975 to 1978, Ducati's once beautiful looks were destroyed when Ducati's management (Italian government employees) hired automobile stylist Giugiaro (of Italdesign) to "modernize" their bikes. The results were hideous and sales plummeted.
Giugiaro's squared breadbox shapes nearly killed Ducati.
Sales didn't recover until Ducati abandoned Giugiaro's wacky ideas and returned to making bikes that looked like motorcycles.
My first easy ride was a 1968 trident. I later got the buck rogers BSA. They always did whatever needed with ease.
In the early 1980s. I saw one of the last ones made in a huge pile of scrap motor bikes in Saudi Arabia. Apparently the police T160 bikes only survived a few miles of use there, if they even managed to start them.
I was alive when this took place, Triumph itself was ruined by the suits.
The bike was designed in 1963 out of existing parts and frustration, tired of having their designs for modern multi cylinder modular bikes knocked back by the management at BSA Dougie Hale came up with idea of building a multi cylinder bike from the parts bin reasoning that we already have the tooling what possible problem could the top management have with this new bike? Alas the answer was still no. It was not until BSA found out that Kawasaki and later Honda were building a big 4cyl bike that the project finally got the green light. Unfortunately awful styling by a outside company slowed initial sales, then after that Lionel decided to build the Ariel 3 on the Trident / Rocket 3 production line again affecting sales at a time they could sell every one they built.
Ah, yes. The Ariel 3. I hear they're quite collectable now. You're right about them plundering the parts bin - the triples share the same bore and stroke as the 500 twins. I suppose the big innovation was the 120 degree crankshaft which was forged and then twisted to provide the three equal throws thus providing that unique exhaust note. Yeah, the whole thing was a disaster. Doug Hele must have been tearing his hair out. He then became more involved with the race shop with stunning results.
had a good friend who was a test rider at triumph meriden . he would come home on different new test bikes . i remember him coming home on a trident the very first time . on its centre stand on his back yard he took the engine revs right up and it never moved . try that with a twin at the time and it would dance all over the yard .
I bought One in 1976 and still have It...Saluti dall'Italia motociclistica.
I agree. The Honda was a super bike in content ,but the Trident was a super bike in ability. I just can’t forgive a bike that feels unsafe ,and the Honda 750 I had just didn’t handle and I could only live with it for very short time, were as the cb500 was much better,but that’s another story.
Good video 👍 🇬🇧🇬🇧
My dad had a triumph trident when I was about 12 years old. I remember I could barely pull he clutch with my hand, and wondered if I would ever be big enough, strong enough, to handle one. Lol. Today I see 350 cc bikes with hydraulic clutches. It had a conical front brake, which I don’t see here. The bike before was a Suzuki 250 twin; quite a difference. His next was a BMW r75 which I rode a lot once they all went to bed.
The T160, at long last, looked beautiful, and precisely what the Trident should've looked like from the start.
Sigh.
An improved engine or a brand new, properly sorted dohc triple, give it real build quality...
What could've been.
The T150 prototype P1 looked like a Bonneville. Triumph had to send kits to America to make it look like the P1
Beautiful bikes ,i especially the these early triumphs with the gorgeous breadbox tank 😊
1972 is the date of manufacture for my trident,still pulls
like a train ! i`ve had twins but the three cylinder is much
smoother,, definitely not for the faint hearted 😂😇
How many horsepower does yours have is it heavily modified? I had heard they were only about 50 odd horsepower so unless geared pretty short, I can’t imagine it being not for the faint hearted.
Yes that's what I have too, built Jan.'72 with 4 speed gear box & conical drum, I always ride solo at 19 Stone & there's plenty of power, twist throttle, hang on, has Lucas RITA ignition Upgrade, worth buying high Octane gasoline, still handles as good as my old TR6R 650.
Triumph T100, 500cc with an added cylinder.
And sadly added leaks 😢
Oh, don't worry Ron, the 500's leaked as well ! 🤣@@RonF386
Nonsense!....Although I do agree they can be a bit leaky, there are at least 20 joints on the engine that need sealing to keep the oil inside.
The Trident was a lash up still based on the Turner speed twin from 37. Meridan Triumph reliable!!! You have never met "Lucas, Prince of Darkness".
A 1969 T150 competed the American Iron Butt Rally in 2012 , 11000 miles in 11 days, not very reliable
Fortunately Triumph are doing well today
Next year will be 50 years owning 75 Commando. Being off the road many years but will be back on soon.. I'm not too mechanically skilled , but after reading some horror stories must say I was lucky. My Norton served me well for 15 K miles with no major problems. Although the starter was not much use. I was never misinformed about Japanese superiority regarding reliabilty. In 82 I decided another new bike was in order. Could get a 79 Bonnie leftover or 82 650 Yamaha. Triumph still no Elec. starter and out of business . Yamaha has E start and reliable. No brainer , right ? Bought the Bonnie . Didn't enjoy as much as Norton., but no regrets.
IMO, post war England was in bad shape, bankrupt, industrially bombed , and physically and mentally tired. WW1 and WW2, enough already. Mix that with social changes, the rise of the unions, and many changes within the industry.
Triumph and Norton,besides having to compete with the Japanese industry, had to deal with US regulations regarding left shift change and emission edicts. Quite a challenge for a small , cash poor industry. My purchase of Brit bikes was always heart driven, never logical. Most of you guys understand !!
Great looking bike
What twaddle, they were just more of the same old design ethos with an extra cylinder, you've obviously not had one to bits.
They ruin ANYTHING they touch.
Would like to have heard it .
I owned and road a 69 t150 for many years and only made two upgrades, 5 spd box
from late 1973 and a Boyer then to a tri- spark ignition. Reliable fast and decent handling nice classic rider really don't care about reading bs and constantly hearing parrots talk about why the British bike empire collapsed. I will tell you I've riden 1st gen Honda 750/ 4 and I would want my Triumph back , not saying it wasn't a good bike it was! just liked the handling and character more.
Loved my Trident. Unfortunately, it still had electrics by the Prince of Darkness: Lucas.
LOL great comment
Chassis looks like a BSA Rocket 3.
The first superbike THE VINCENT BLACK SHADOW
When they are running right they are a every bikers dream still the best sounding bike ever biggest fault as far as I'm concerned is the clutch botched design that you need a PhD to adjust and three hands to operate
Don't blame "the beancounters" - that was all management decisions.
I rode long road trips on both the CB750 and the Trident. Bikes that were kindly lent to me. I found them both underwhelming. The CB750 is one of the poorest handling bikes I've ever ridden, and it shifts in a harsh metallic way. It's not very fast in a straight line, either. Adequate, but hardly exciting. The Trident handles better than the CB750 and shifts better, but it does not handle anywhere near as good as Triumph's twins; the Trident also too heavy for the amount of power it makes.
They were a good bike but as you say came to the market too late, they were outdated already.
Why do you start showing the Czechoslovakian Jawa 250-559 production line at 8:43 whilst talking about production at the Triumph factory??!!
Iit''s so easy to tell the difference between the motorcycle brands...... the oil stays inside the engine on a Jawa, leaving no puddles under the bike.
The trident was nowhere near as good as my Honda 4 in the 70,s.they where slower less reliable &
Leaked oil like there twin .i liked the trident but they where just up to it .
A T120 with an extra cylinder tacked on. Vertical split crankcase. Leaky. Expensive. The racing ones worked bcos of massive amounts of servicing. Private ones didnt.
How's your going?
Hmmm...My private one is as tight as a drum and pushing 25k
My Laverda 750 was as good Japanese bike an better than a any UK bike.The Italians should done something with Del Orto air cleaners,read none .Top speed for mine 125 +.
When did americans delete T from their phonetic alphabet?
The same day when they removed an “i” in aluminium.
even when they re-styled the bike, it didn't sell. You know why? Because it was a 1962 motorcycle
Triumph has never been known to be reliable
British bikes weren't in the same league as the Japanese in terms of innovation, quality, reliability and style.
1& 1/2 Daytona 500's was too little, far too late. British management definition 😊
and the winner is honda 750 1969
Barely in a straight line...in the twistys... CB 750 in my rear view
Rubbish. The Norton Commando blew both the trident and the Honda 4 off the road. The Kawasaki 900 was the first bike to beat it, so I'd say, the Norton was the first super bike.
Rubbish, no Commando ever blew my T150V off the road. In fact chuck I never lost to one. 750 Hondas were bait though.
Well I was there. I didn't see you there.
There's more to being the first superbike than being quick. Otherwise, you’d probaly have to argue that a Vincent was the first superbike.
Yep, I was a Norton guy until the late 70s -- Started with a P11 (rode it over much of the lower 48), then a Commando or two which were smoother, but doggy in comparison... never raced a Trumpet of any kind, but was certainly able to contain a vertical-twin BSA... The Bonnies had the classic look tho'
I'd almost agree with you, only the Norton had disc brakes and hydraulic front forks. Where as the Vincent was drum brakes with girdraulic forks.@@tonyb9735
DOHC ?
Best motorcycles ever? I hardly think so. Look at the facts: Drum brakes, no electric starter, a 4 speed gearbox, veritcally split crankcases that leaked oil, Lucas electrics, Amal carbs. All for a price of just under 2000 dollars. Plus it looked like the fat girl at the prom: butt ugly. Can you say 1495? That was the price of a new CB750. Look, if the British were really after technological advance, they could have had everything the CB750 did . Instead they just took one of their 500 cc engines and slapped an extra cylinder to it. Lazy.
So we are talking about a motorcycle here. The sad truth is that this is the all too familiar story for most British Engineering companies. The worst example being the Mini (car). An affordable and iconic car that was way ahead of the competition. Yet whilst the workers struggled to build these amazing cars, senior management had not figured out how much they cost to build and thus lost money with every sale.
Guzzi
British industry being unable to cope with Japanese superior imports...
Triumph was not known for reliability. That is one myth straight out of the box l see in your strange preamble. The same same bureaucracy that meddled with the Trident had caused Triumph to bought by BSA years before, and so had it been a brilliant company it would not have had to be sold. It is the same bureaucracy that caused almost all motorcycles in Britain to be made with archaic tooling and outdated methods, resulting in piece meal standards and reliability. Your video is sprinkled with wishful thinking statements. Both Japan and Germany who had been mercilessly bombed back to the stone age, were none the less better manufacturing nations than Britain ever was. It is worth noting that Triumph was started by two German immigrants to the UK. They brought with them German know how, having come from the country that invented both cars and motorcycles.
Totally agree with your facts,, As for this video, its nonsense 😢
The reliability comparison was with other brands available in the 50s and 60s. This comparative reliability along with performance, were the main reasons why so many Triumph engines were put into other bike frames. Hence, Tritons and TriBSAs etc.
Well done the trident was the first superbike
Nothing unique about it.
There are two sorts of Triump Trident and BSA rocket 3's...... those that have blown up and those that will - that is how everyone in the UK used to view them back in the 1970's and it is still true today. They were a stop-gap lashup that wasn't meant to be in production for more than a few years..... a bit like most of the British motorcycles made after the 1950's.
I am in England and the best thing the UK motorcycle industry did was fail !
"Cutting Edge Technology?" In the first seconds of this video you've proven you don't know what you're talking about! I owned and loved a Trident. "First Superbike?" Again. you really stick your foot in your mouth.
The Vincent Black Shadow and Black Lightning were pretty quick, a good 10 years or more before either the Trident or Commando were made.
vincents black shadow first came out feb 1948.
Vincents used ' isolastic' ( ie- rubber ) mounting of swingarm long before Norton did
Great acceleration, pathetic brakes, and cornered like a mid-hinged bluddy rowboat