France's Forgotten Vietnam War(4K Documentary)
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2023
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After the Second World War multiple French colonies were pushing towards independence, among them Indochina. The Viet Minh movement under Ho Chi Minh was clashing with French aspirations to save their crumbling Empire.
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» SOURCES
Lawrence Atwood, Mark & Logevall, Fredrik (eds.), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
Chen Jian, “China and the First Indo-China War, 1950-54", The China Quarterly, No. 133 (March 1993)
Duiker, William J, “Ho Chi Min and the Strategy of People’s War” in Lawrence, Mark Atwood & Logevall, Fredrik (eds.), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
Fall, Bernard, Hell in a Very Small Place: The Siege of Dien Bien Phu, (New York, N.Y : Da Capo Press, 1985)
Irving, Ronald E. M. The First Indochina War: French and American Policy 1945-54, (London : Croom Helm, 1975)
Lawrence Atwood, Mark & Logevall, Fredrik (eds.), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
L’Herpiniere, Michel & Perkins, Mandaley, Hanoi, Adieu: A Bittersweet Memoir of a Frenchman in Indochina, (Enfield, N.S.W : Haper Perennial, 2006)
Prados, John, “Assessing Dien Bien Phu” in Lawrence, Mark Atwood & Logevall, Fredrik (eds.), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
Thee, Marek, “The Indochina Wars: Great Power Involvement - Escalation and Disengagement”, Journal of Peace Research, Vol. 13, No. 2 (1976)
Tønnesson, Stein, “The Longest Wars: Indochina 1945-75", Journal of Peace Research, Vol. 22, No. 1 (1985)
Tucker-Jones, Anthony, Dien Bien Phu: The First Indochina War, 1946-1954, (Barnsley : Pen and Sword Military, 2017)
Trương Như Tảng, Chanoff, David and Doan Van Toai, A Viet Cong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and its Aftermath, (New York, NY : Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, 1985)
»CREDITS
Presented by: Jesse Alexander
Written by: Mark Newton
Director: Toni Steller & Florian Wittig
Director of Photography: Philipp Appelt
Editing: Philipp Appelt
Motion Design: Philipp Appelt
Mixing, Mastering & Sound Design: above-zero.com
Research by: Mark Newton
Fact checking: Florian Wittig, Jesse Alexander
Channel Design: Simon Buckmaster
Contains licensed material by getty images and AP
Maps: MapTiler/OpenStreetMap Contributors & GEOlayers3
Music Library: Epidemic Sound
All rights reserved - Real Time History GmbH 2023
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I love your video, just keep doing to upload new video.
Don't forget about "Indonesian Dutch war 1945 - 1949".
I watched this on Nebula and wanted to ask a question about what I heard once in a history documentary. The show was telling the history of the Vietnam independence fight and they talk about Ho Chi Ming, in a meeting with the US president (FDR I believe, asks for support gets a denial. This leads to him choosing China since he would have been willing to abandon the communist block, due to him being a nationalist above communist. I would like to get your view on this.
You fail to mention the role the US & CIA's predecessor had in fermenting communist anti colonialism in Vietnam and places around the world
Humanity and war is nothing but greed and waste of scarce resources
Giap is one of the most interesting military leaders of the 20th century. His generalship defeated 3 major world powers, but his lack of material resources meant his victories came at a heavy price. But he was tenacious, that is for sure. It's interesting seeing his strategies prior to Dien Bien Phu, and how successful he was at guerilla attacks and how unsuccessful he was whenever he tried conventional tactics.
Let's be real though, it was always going to come at a heavy price. The fact he achieved victory at all is a testament to his skill.
To top it all off he was even a self taught general compared to the world powers he faced off against. I always have huge respect for the Vietnamese
@@marrs999 where do we put the FRENCH Generals in this scale? 😁
He must have learned from history about the futility of fighting an enemy with superior logistics and arms conventionally. It reminds me of the disastrous decision Emilio Aguinaldo - first president of an Independent Philippines - to initially fight the US forces conventionally because he doesn't want the late 19th century world to think his government and country are "uncivilized" for fighting in guerilla warfare (rhetoric at the time look down upon non-whites fighting guerilla warfare style since they consider auch tactics "barbaric" and "cowardly")...
Conventional Tactics🤡 with the same weapons as the French/US or without ?🤔🤣
As a Vietnamese, Im impressed about the amount of information about the French-Vietnamese war that you found. These information are usually only researched deeply by Vietnamese because those are our history. When people around the world think about First Indochinese war they usually think about Dien Bien Phu but not many people know what happened from 1945 to 1954.
It's a real shame because the entire period of the end of European colonialism is fascinating. In Britain we barely ever hear about the atrocities committed by the British army in Malaya, Kenya and elsewhere.
Instead British society is still clinging to the idea that the British Empire was a net positive for the countries we exploited.
Herein simply Wikipedia because it's balanced opinions, here the author for go Na San and some other Giáp previous losts, and Khe Sanh were Giáp thought he can rewin...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu
@davidbuckley2435 yes, and here they forgot to tell you that only 3000 prisoners were released out of 11 000!!! A banana or a fruit a day in a tropical area where there were plenty on the ground could save many lives...
I think Vietnam would have been best off remaining as a French Colony, -united along with Laos and Cambodia.. France still has a lot of overseas territories- maybe the most of any of the European countries. And those colonies all enjoy a high quality of life. New Caledonia also took a vote recently as to either be independent. or stay with France, and they voted to stay with France... It was mostly the US, dragging our feet, saying they were helping the French, when in fact we were hoping they'd fail, so that we could step in..
@johnschneidhorst3406 new caledonia voted to stay, but their cousins, tahitians, voted to be an american colony instead of a grench colony (operation Bobcat brought them drinking water, electricity, vaccination, public healthcare, road, international airport just in few weeks after centuries under french colony...;-D
Vietnamese fought to kick out french to adopt communism invented by french to mess up russian ( just remember how Vladimir Illitch Oulianov, Lenine could go thru two time world war frontline of tranchee, in a comfy wagon with his wife, children, companion, and mistress!!!)
Considering how Giap was just a history teacher before he was asked to be a general, his feats in later battles are really impressive!
Thank you for covering this!
"just" a history teacher!? ;)
@@jessealexander2695 A history teacher who made history 😉
@@jessealexander2695
Hush, you're not supposed to tell them of the Historians' Plot for world conquest yet.
@@jessealexander2695 😂
teacher: remember this war, it will be in your final exam
studient: which war, i never hear about it?
teacher: yet*
A history teacher who himself made history. Absolute legend. There are stories about how he could draw diagrams of Napoleon's battles out of memory when talking about them to his students, then explain everything enthusiastically.
It was the Uk that caused that, not France!
A cold blooded killer responsible for tens of millions of death before during and after the Vietnam Civil War. Just like his idol Mao Zedong.
@@user-ny4nv5qu2pplease stop blaming, everyone have a part of it
@@user-ny4nv5qu2p
Exactly how is your post relevant to the original post? The UK caused what?
@@davebritton7648 Wow you're ignorant, The British Army controlled the peninsula after WW 2. They allowed the French to return and also allowed the Japanese to retain their weapons, thus the Japanese Army was an early Cadre of the Veit Minh. You need to read, and read a LOT if you're going to question me.
Man, not many documentaries focus on the First Indochina War, so I'm excited to see it covered by in great detail by the RTH team.
Edit: The photographs are top notch. Always impressed with the production value of these documentaries.
These were the beginnings of the great era of photojournalism
I suggest you to watch Apocalypse, cold war documentary
First Indochina War is like a Black Hole, to be fair it really started in the late 1800s!
bro
20 minutes is not "in detail" coverage
@uncletimo6059 This war didn't have many set piece battles, so it doesn't need as much coverage as other wars to get the point across.
New Real Time History, and it's on the First Indochina War?! Yes, please!
The winner ain't the one with the fastest car it's the one who refuses to lose.
Eerie that LeClerc thought Vietnam required a political settlement whereas the other General thought it was a mere military problem: that exactly mirrored the presentation the CIA and the Pentagon gave JFK early in 1963 after both agencies visited South Vietnam. The CIA doubted a military solution was possible, the pentagon wanted to blacktop the countryside. JFK is reported to have asked: “you both visited the same country, didn’t you?”
😅😅😂😅 lmao.. Kennedy.. lol
If Americans treat the Vietnamese as a special ally and have a deeper look at the purpose when Ho Chi Minh chose communism as the political direction to liberate the country, China will not be able to influence them. affecting Vietnam and the Americans could have been present here as an ally without having to lose thousands of billions of dollars and 58,000 thousand soldiers. In principle, Ho Chi Minh admired Americans, especially the way they did business and attracted talent. He lived and worked there for a while, met many famous people and understood why America developed. So when Truman hesitated to support the French, he wrote many letters to persuade but the US side made the wrong choice when confronting Vietnam.
I had a general awareness of the French involvement in Vietnam. My unit was even camped/parked next to a Shell Oil depot in 1965. The details you provide and the images to enhance the dialog are an incredible history lesson to me. Thank you.
Thanks a lot, we will cover a lot more as we said. And we we will get into more detail on the JFK/LBJ situation and more around the US involvement in Vietnam soon.
But Shell Oil is Dutch?
@@Dayvit78 It absolutely is.
A former Navy Vet was off-shore in an aircraft carrier. His job was to guard nukes but there was never an order to load n drop them...
Interesting point about Truman support of HoChiMen. CCP flooded HoChi with US arms abandoned by Nationalist after Truman and Marshall abandoned nationalists and refused to fund Nat'lst.
Had Eisenhower used his means this would never happened.
Dummy Ridgeway thinks chicommie support was not involved, eh?
But French lack of holding heights was very unhelpful
In addition to be exceptionally well-researched and presented, you made the effort to pronounce French and Vietnamese names correctly which adds a lot of extra polish and professionalism to an already excellent presentation. Thank you! I enjoyed it and learned a lot.
For the then Vietnamese: 'When you aint got nothing, you aint got nothing to lose'.
A former Navy Vet was off-shore in an aircraft carrier. His job was to guard nukes but there was never an order to load n drop them...
Interesting point about Truman support of HoChiMen. CCP flooded HoChi with US arms abandoned by Nationalist after Truman and Marshall abandoned nationalists and refused to fund Nat'lst.
Had Eisenhower used his means this would never happened.
Dummy Ridgeway thinks chicommie support was not involved, eh?
But French lack of holding heights was very unhelpful
One should read National Liberation War in Vietnam (printed in 1971) by General Vo Nguyen Giap. He talks about the French strategy in 1953, and how Giap was going to counter and negate French advantages. Dien Bien Phu was just the conclusion. For instance, French created a strategic reserve, so Giap attacked all over the South to spread out the French reserves. He organized labor battalions. It is a very interesting book about how a lesser power can counter another's strategic plans. However, key to Viet Minh success was China's victory in 1949. It was Chinese (formerly American/Chinese Nationalist) artillery that crushed the French at Dien Bien Phu. It was very convenient that Dien Bien Phu is close to the Chinese border, so supplies were nearby. And with lots of Viet Minh anti-aircraft guns, France could not shut off the flow of supplies to Viet Minh troops via airpower, which was France's assumption it could do. And it was no small feat to bring those guns over the mountains to Dien Bien Phu. Even with this, though, Viet Minh casualties were initially so high that Giap HAD to resort to siege tactics, dig trenches up to French lines, then rush the last hundred meters. French pictures of Dien Bien Phu look a lot like the Marine's Khe Sang - the difference being that French did not have massive numbers of heavy bombers the US had. But the book makes clear Giap had a strategic plan, he executed the plan, so the victory at Dien Bien Phu was no accident or luck.
What seems incredible is the fact that the US was defeated by Vietnam. What? Did the US lose the war against Nam? OMG! Against a poor country, undeveloped, malnourished, without Navy, without Air Force, NO Marines, Green Berets, SEALs, Rangers, Delta Force, USMC, Rambos nor Chuck Norris. Defeated by a country of peasants without strategic plans, no B-59 Bombers, no PT-Boats, no Northrop F-5 "Freedom Fighter", nor Atomic Submarines. Without Aircraft Carriers, NO Continental Missiles, nor Tanks, Choppters, AR-15, Gatlin Machines’, Flamethrowers, Napalm, Agent Orange. NADA! And to top it off, defeated by an army of teenagers who had no shoes: WITHOUT SHOES!!! Army that fought with bamboo sticks!!! Charlie Kicked Our Asses and even invaded our Embassy. Jeezzz!!! Here is the Duty, Courage and Chanting of Heroism of the US Army. This is the True Story of our Country. This is the History that is already written in the US Books. And the History that was written in Afghanistan is made with the same ink.
i've Read Giap's book about the battle of Dien Bien Phu and it's largely unacurate. Of course he never made mitakes and killed more french soldiers than were present during the battle!
I would be cautious about everything he wrote
Great job guys! I just want to point out a couple of things.
In 1919, at the Versailles, Ho Chi Minh (Nguyen Ai Quoc at the time) demanded to meet President Wilson because of his 14 points, one of which was self-determination. He was disappointed to say the least.
When he was in the US, he (allegedly) said - roughly translated to: "Lady Liberty doesn't look further beyond where she stood"
December 19, 1946, Ho Chi Minh was aware and informed of this decision. He issued the Declaration for National Resistance with a sentence that echoed in Vietnamese history: "We'd rather sacrifice everything than to lose our country, to become slaves" (rough translation). The Hanoi fighting was to delay the French allowing Ho's Government to retreat to the Northern Mountains.
My grandfathers were parts of the Viet Minh regular took part in Song Lo Operation/ Operation Lorraine. Their stories were fascinating!
And you have my respect as a Frenchman, and, such as it's worth from a single citizen, my condoleances if not apologies for the unbearable stupidity and racism from the French government back then. I wish they had listened to Leclerc and negociated a settlement, so many deaths would have been avoided
....And in the end after so much bluster and warfare, they ended up being Moscow's slaves. Sad.
Or he could have fought with the south, avoiding the communist regime's horrors and massacres. Even if he resented the french, they left after like 1956 leaving the south as successors. Look at south korea today. Look at taiwan.
@@me67galaxylife As for Communist decision here. What choice do any of us have.
The Western power especially the USA will not told French to back down from their colonial possession like they told the British. So they will said nothing to the French in Indochina.
So where do we turn for support now to get the French out.
If the USA hadn’t sided with the French ideal of reclaiming colonial possessions. Then we wouldn’t had to side with USSR and our old enemy China.
@@me67galaxylife Heck even I can blame the USA for this whole affairs. We siding of the Communist to save ourselves because the Western Power turn on us.
Especially the USA. How could you the USA champion of freedom had the power to tell the British to give up their colony. Yet you allowed the French to reclaim their colonial possessions.
Do you even know DeGaulle wasn’t claim every of French colony will still be territory even after the war. While the British already dismantle their and began negotiation. The French did the opposite.
And what the USA do. Do they support us full independence or we will be bound by French again because the French is USA important allies.
The USA make their choice for geopolitics and so are we for our independence. All of our suffering, death and horrors because of the Western Geopolitics. You my friend had no moral ground to said we was in the wrong when all of this mess started by you guys for family relatives like myself and many other got torn apart for your way.
It is better that you never came to this shores as colonizer to enrich your nation in the 19th century.
Giap is one of the greatest military leaders off all time....ALL TIME. He defeated 3 very modern armies with an under-supplied, under-trained army and guerillas. This man had no air force, navy, special forces, no planes, tanks, etc. He had an army, guerillas, artillary, and AK's, and thats it. His forces built huge tunnel cities underground with picks and shovels, used bamboo pikes, and syphillis and hookers as a bio-weapon. If you want to learn how to command an army, studying this man is essential. Aside from the Japanese, the Vietnamese are the only other most hardcore people on earth. Women, old men, and children sacrificed for the war effort and laughed in the face of death.
Our people do everything for self-respect
Brain washed
@@thuankhongInclude highest criminal rate in forgein country
@@hellisreal1018 source: trust me bro
You forgot to mention that Ho CHi Minh was recruited by the US. He was OSS agent "Lucius", the americans helped him take power, and when he declared the independance of Vietnam the declaration which blamed both the French and the Japanes was written with the help of american officers from the OSS.
What seems incredible is the fact that the US was defeated by Vietnam. What? Did the US lose the war against Nam? OMG! Against a poor country, undeveloped, malnourished, without Navy, without Air Force, NO Marines, Green Berets, SEALs, Rangers, Delta Force, USMC, Rambos nor Chuck Norris. Defeated by a country of peasants without strategic plans, no B-59 Bombers, no PT-Boats, no Northrop F-5 "Freedom Fighter", nor Atomic Submarines. Without Aircraft Carriers, NO Continental Missiles, nor Tanks, Choppters, AR-15, Gatlin Machines’, Flamethrowers, Napalm, Agent Orange. NADA! And to top it off, defeated by an army of teenagers who had no shoes: WITHOUT SHOES!!! Army that fought with bamboo sticks!!! Charlie Kicked Our Asses and even invaded our Embassy. Jeezzz!!! Here is the Duty, Courage and Chanting of Heroism of the US Army. This is the True Story of our Country. This is the History that is already written in the US Books. And the History that was written in Afghanistan is made with the same ink.
Ah, the Americans training and bankrolling their next enemy to beat their current enemy. Tale as old as time.
Funny, Lucius means bringer of light.
@@Oxtocoatl13cant agree more
@@Oxtocoatl13 Yes...and in some cases from the 80's onward, it was akin to recruiting a known arsonist to burn down your annoying neighbors house and then assuming he will just stop his burning spree right there. Knowing this you'd be rather foolish to go for the:"They are a noble people we must support and arm at any cost." pitch for the zillionth time.
I want more French Indochina docs! It's always overshadowed by US and allies in Vietnam War, but to get full overview of Vietnam War you'll need what France was doing in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia
the Vietnamese always knew they were in reality fighting the US!
@user-ny4nv5qu2p I think US was assumed because of France and US dealings, but I think if we stayed out or capitalized on Vietnam, we could have avoided a war and helped decolonize, but France wanted it's fast fading empire and the US wanted France on the Western side
Agreed
@@LS1056oöö
Ho Chi Minh is a legend! A hero for many around the world.
Growing up is realizing the Vietnamese were never the bad guys. They just wanted to be free of imperialism and feed their people - didn’t matter which “-ism” it took to accomplish that.
And what were the results and at what cost? And ultimately what are they doing today?
A unified country and working hard to progress….have you even visited the country
@@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music at the cost of our blood and bones for our freedom, prosperity and independence.
@@frankezane583 Which the totalitarian north "unified" by invading the Republic of Vietnam, sending up to 300,000 South Vietnamese to concentration camps where they endured torture, starvation, and disease while being forced to perform hard labor. Another 750,000 to over 1 million Southerners were then ripped out of their homes and forcibly relocated to uninhabited mountainous forested areas. Let's all cheer this.
@@duongtieuta223 Autocratic Great Leader (who you can't criticize or you'll be imprisoned at the least (is that what you're calling freedom?)) decided to fight wars against his political rivals, Japan, France, USA, Cambodia, and China costing maybe 3 million Vietnamese lives total in order to get his now most polluted country in the world frozen out of the world's economy for decades.
Now having given up on Communism (but keeping the political oppression) because it doesn't work Vietnam is trying to set up economic and military arrangements with the USA since the Chinese Communist Party is the region's #1 problem. How could Great Leader have made worse decisions?
Would love a video on the Sino Vietnamese war
we're looking into covering it, unfortunately at first glance it seems impossible to find much about it in English, let alone photos or film.
@@realtimehistory probably because it was a quick war, although not one without heavy cost. The war must be put in the context of Vietnam in a later-year period of the war as well as the first post-war years: The Sino-Soviet split and its effect on Vietnam, the worsening relationship between Vietnam and China, the 1974 Chinese invasion of Paracel Islands (which was under control of the Republic of Vietnam), 1978 Vietnam invasion of Cambodia and subsequent fallout, followed by the Sino-Vietnamese war (followed by almost 10 years of border skirmishes), the 1988 Chinese attack in Vietnamese-held portion of Spratly Islands,...All those material are limited, even in Vietnamese and Chinese sources.
@@realtimehistoryi dont even being taught about it at vietnam highschool
@@therockbatIn the treaty Vietnam and China signed in 1990, they both agreed to not popularize those conflicts, hence the sources are very limited, there were some books Chinese authors wrote in English about it but they were heavily biased. I think what happened was that China hoped for a quick dash towards Hanoi to force Vietnam out of Cambodia, which made sense since Vietnam didn't have a lot troops in the region since they already committed 75% of their force to Cambodia. But then their offensives were seriously delayed to the surprise of both sides, like it took PLA 2 weeks to capture two border cities that were 15km away from the border, which they planned to take on the second day of the war. Then Vietnam started mobilizing main army corps in and flew an army corps back from Cambodia to prepare for a counter attack, at that moment PLA must have realized this ain't going anywhere and they don't really want to engage Vietnam's army corps and so they started retreating, claiming they have "won" by capturing two "provincial capitals" which were basically just two border cities 15km away from the border which Vietnam didn't commit to holding anyway since they were way too close to the border. Some Chinese then misunderstood this and thought they actually captured Vietnam's capital and started amplifying this online, so I guest their propaganda worked? Vietnam also wanted to preserve their force for Cambodia so they let the Chinese retreat and send people back to Cambodia. It's a weird war that both sides didn't want to commit, Vietnam wanted to save their best troops for Cambodia so none of the army corps actually engaged in the initial defense thus none of them actually fought, and China were obliged to try bailing out their ally but they didn't really want to bail them out that much so they retreated the moment Vietnam started mobilizing the their army corps. However, China learnt from their failure here and started modernizing their army, and finally stopped doing human waves, and they ended up doing better in the 1984-1988 period where it transformed into a series of artillery skirmishes where both sides tried to shell each other with nothing much else being done. In the end, I think neither side actually "won" much if anything, despite propaganda claiming otherwise, so they shook hands in 1990 and promised to not talk about these anymore.
@@realtimehistory The best book I know about that conflict is "Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War: The Last Maoist War" from Edward C. O'Dowd, it is probably the only English book written specifically about this conflict. There are other books that skimp over it, but this is the only one I know that specifically covers this war.
Gen. Giap was one of the most brilliant commanders of the 20th century.
I was in VN when the news of his death came. Genuine grief but not for the Hanoi establishment who disrespected Uncle Giap.
One strange bit of trivia about Ho Chi Minh is that he implored the French president to ban English words in the French language as he viewed it as a an impurity to the beauty of the French language, which of course he spoke fluently. At the time Minh was a French-language writer and journalist living in Paris. He mostly railed against anglicisms in sports writing. He went from that to going to war against the French, but he never lost his love for the French language.
So that's why the French are so crazily afraid of using Anglicisms! Now it all makes sense 😏
And yet, strangely enough, he also spoke fluent English (albeit with a French undertone), Russian, Chinese, German and Spanish, among other languages.
@@peterlee6391You have to know the things you despise to understand further why you hate them in the first place, blind hatred without knowledge is just ignorance.
@@johanmikkael6903 I quite agree!
@@johanmikkael6903 It's not always clear that anticolonial leaders despised what the imperial power had. Ho understood and wanted for Viet Nam what the French already possessed: independence, national sovereignty. Like many others, Ho found out that ideals of liberty and brotherhood along with Wilsonian pledges of self determination didn't apply to people like him. What was despised was the hypocrisy of empty rhetoric.
This documentary is just great, looking forward part2!
Awesome! This is a subject I've wanted to see covered for a long time, thanks!
Pierre Schoendoerffer, ancien french soldier and writter, did beautiful films on the Indochina War for those interested (not sure if these films were translated in English but I found them very touching about the tragedy of men). The pictures and stories are moving and subtil.
Thanks for this general overwiew of this often forgotten subject in Western countries and even in Vietnam when it comes to underlining all the subtlety (such as minorities involvment, all the negotiations talks, etc...)
the name rings a bell. Was he captured by the Viet Minh during the war at some point? I think I saw him on photos/film reels while looking through the footage for this video.
@@realtimehistoryhe was captured at Dien Bien Phu. You absolutely have to see his masterpiece « La 317e section »
Pierre Schoendoerffer also made a documentary about the Vietnam war: "The Anderson Platoon" (La Section Anderson in French).
As mentioned above, "The 317th Platoon" (La 317e Section in French) is definitely worth seeing, but "Le Crabe Tambour", another of his movie, and partially depicting the Indochina war, is to my opinion, his masterpiece.
Make a video :
The peninsular war 1808 to 1815
People in Spain call it Spanish war of independence
Napoleon call it the Spanish Ulcer
Make a video :
The Soviet Afghan war 1979 to 1989
You see, peace is hard-earned, especially to Vietnam, we only wished for people to come with carrots, yet they came with cranes. But nothing's more precious than freedom and liberty, like Hochiminh said. Hence, we fought, to the bitter end.
independence and freedom are two different things. Independence is a starting point but they have never reach the finish line
@@MrMf92 Both are intertwined. Vietnam gained both in the end.
@@MrMf92which "they" are you mentioning to?
When the US said they were going in,
The French just laughed saying "be our guest, have fun..."😂
@@Crying-Croc Well, the Russians sure had to learn that lesson the hard way in Afghanistan.
That’s not what happened. The French called up a contract with Eisenhower from Korea. They helped the US in Korea if when they needed military support the US would show. International agreements are what put the US there.
@@dennismartin3356 my comment was humor.
And the entire matter of Vietnam involved a whole lot more than you've stated.
In fact the French had involvement in that entire region for a very long time prior to the US/Korean and Vietnam wars
@@extrahistory8956 umm, russians are learning that brutal lesson right now in ukraine. History taught me about afghanistan and the russian role there. We (U.S.A) pretty much paid them back for thier supplies and training they gave communist forces in vietnam that killed 58,000 Americans. We ended up learning a similar mistake in afghanistan when it was our turn to try to civilize the country. Now the world is watching Russia drain its resources to fight in ukraine. Russia has the weapons and manpower, but how long will that last when enough mothers are burying thier boys every week that come back from the battlefield that thier country forced them to fight in. Russia is not allowed to invade the countries that are supplying thier enemies. Sounds like history is repeating itself but thankfully not with American blood this time. I risked my own life fighting in Afghanistan, in our second/third war without a clear strategy. Playing politics and not doing whatever is absolutely necessary for victory is just pointless death for ALL sides. Ukraine now is just about what side will give up first. Its a boxing match, and each side has thier coach in the corner. Who will tire out first?
Interesting! There tends to be plenty of focus on the US vs Vietnam war, but not so much on the France vs Vietnam. Glad to see you guys rectifying that!
Loved it! Will join up on Nebula to support more videos on the vietnam war.
Military history is so crazy because “expended” & “used up” refers to groups of people being maimed or killed, and not just money being spent or material goods being utilized (even if, from a resource management perspective, they might be similar)
Remarkably concise background to a deeply complex and fluid situation.
I have read widely on this period and often end up with a headache.
Congratulations on a very clear presentation. Chapeau!
This video bypasses what happened in Vietnam immediately after Japans collapse. For a true historical picture I recommend watching Mark Feltons , The British Vietnam War.
Many years ago I spoke with an old friend who'd served in the Free French Navy on board the battleship Lorraine. When the war ended he was transferred to the battleship Richelieu and he sailed for Vietnam. He told me that he was broken-hearted and embarrassed about how the French forces had treated the Vietnamese during his stay.
So you're not french, you're not that old... And you spit something that sounds terribly like propaganda. Yeah seems legit, nothing to see here.
@@me67galaxylifewhich parts of his comment were propaganda
@@me67galaxylife Cool your jets Napoleon Jr. That war has been over for 69 years. A loooong time. You're too late for that fight. 😄 Have some croissants or suck on some slimy snails, I meant...escargot. Take it easy, tiger! 😄
@@pbxn-3rdx-85percent It's funny that you try to attack me personally instead of giving any proper argument
I guess you've got nothing to say ? Thanks for proving me right !
@@iateuranium-235forbreakfas7 First, what i pointed out. Very suspicious; add to that the fact that he spits out the usual "muh evil colonialist" without any concrete info or proofs. (and btw the french where among the "nicest", if you could use that term, colonisers) And it's funny because from actual accounts that i got, nothing of the sorts came out. Funny isn't it ?
Great stuff on the early Vietnam war history. Looking forward to the next episode in this series.
I love running into a video of yours, Jesse. Love the subject matter you tackle and the way you discuss them. Keep up the fantastic work!
In 1946, the shelling in Hai Phong made my grandpa's family ran away from his homeland and took deeper shelter in Hanoi to avoid fighting between Viet Minh and the French. After the battlefield reached Hanoi, my grandpa (with my grandma) fled to the South (the city of Nha Trang) to take refuge. Believing the South would be a safe place to have a new home and do some business, my grandpa and my grandma truly supported the South until the big old America came building a puppet Republic and bringing in a dictator who suppressed anyone who opposed him including my grandpa who led the student movements and got send to jail for 5 years, that is the moment my grandpa realize French or U.S or South Vietnam - all were as bad
Too bad south vietnam was never a puppet republic and that dictator eventually got what was coming to him; add to that all the communists horrors that are a thousands times worst than all of what south vietnam did, proving either your account or your grandfather wrong. I guess the communist propaganda got to him very well huh.
All were bad, but in the long run the south would have been better. Just look at south Korea or Taiwan, they too were dictatorship that transitioned into democracy over time, whereas in communist north korea and China they are totalitarian states to this day and are unlikely to ever change.
Oh yes? And what about one million of victims during a peace time after 1975? One million regarding Hà Nội themself about boat people, 3 millions regarding UNHCR, so tell us what was their "crime"???
@@paulnguyen-thanh5587 I only share what my grandpa been through, about what you said I don't know and if you have a reliable non biased source I would like to take a look, until then what I care is how I can contribute to build a future prosperity Vietnam, so to answer your last question: it is non of my business, thank you :)
@@notpotatoes14 if United Nations High Commissioner for Refugee is a biased source then I think you are sick... Hà Nội officials ended to admit themself that boat people were a problem: reread minutes of the party annual meeting. There were thousand refugees in Hong Kong and they escaped from northern part of your communist paradise... Now, they are reselling this country they pretend to liberate to chinese after thousand years of history...
Thank you very for your team on this video love and support from Vietnam
Excellent, well presented work. Looking forward to much more.
Love your channel! One of the best on CZcams. Would you ever consider making a video on the Portuguese Colonial War too?
As someone who's long been fascinated with this conflict. I can't wait to see your take on it.
Thank you for this video.
This was outstanding, love your channel!
Brilliant video on an undercovered topic. Alot of people focus on the American vietnam war but often forget what led up to that and how the VC got so experienced
Excellent presentation; I am a Nebula subscriber and highly recommend this documentary service. Thanks.
brilliant well researched and presented - kudos
Very well researched and presented. Thank you.
Incredible documentary series. Looking forward to this series.
Another excellent video! Thanks a lot for your great work!
This was awesome, can't wait for the next instalment.
I’ve studied the 20th Century conflicts in Vietnam a bit and I learned new details about the negotiations and diplomatic efforts between the French and Vietnamese from this video.
Why didn't the great powers invading Vietnam read the Vietnam history before deciding to send troops in?
@@thuankhong I think they did read it. They just believed they'd be the victor anyway.
And quite frankly, we had got our asses handed until Ngo Quyen started our winning streaks, and then Ho Quy Ly disrupted and we had to do over, and then the Nguyen Dynasty disrupted it again.
@@ucnguyenanh9414Damn, most of our losses in history because our leaders are either too stupid or too cowardly to do their sacred duty.
Giap took part of his guerilla tactics from T E Lawrence 's book : the seven pillars of wisdom. He died at 102 and seems to have been a wide minded man. When many years after general Salan the winner with Gilles of Na San died he sent flowers to his tomb. Salan loved Indochina mainly Tonkin, its people and buddhism. His nickname in the french army, was : le bonze ...
It's T. E. Lawrence, but fascinating.
@@Oxtocoatl13 You're right shame on me
@@Dragases6894Also, he was 102 when he died in 2013. 😉
@@grahamstrouse1165 Thanks Graham
ça m'a toujours bien fait rire cette histoire comme quoi giap devait tout à lawrence ... les techniques de guerre révolutionnaire que les vietnamiens ont utilisé contre les français ont été mise au point de l'autre coté de la frontière chinoise par les communiste de mao de zhu de, de lin biao, entre 1927 et 1950 !
mais pour un journaliste occidental, ça sonne certainement mieux de dire thomas edward lawrence ?
Hey man, many kudos to you for a well covered yet crisp video. Will subscribe your channel !
Thanks for an interesting and informative video.
As a French that met so many great Vietnamese, this part of our history always saddens me. It's always important to talk about it though, and you're doing great! I know no french media ready to do the same work for one war of decolonisation.
la honte mene nulle part il y'a 60 ans c'etait un autre pays , le vietnam on l'a fait , normal qu'on ne veuil pas le donner , le partager avec oncle ho ca c'etait la bonne idée , leclerc avait tout compris helas , il est mort trop tot
@@garelalexandre3252 Ha non, non, non, tu va tout faire à l'as et avoir honte par dessus le marché, hop hop hop du balais
"I know no french media ready to do the same work for one war of decolonisation"
tf are you talking about? there are dozens of french documentaries about indochina war
@@selmevias1383 balais devant chez toi deja ahahh
@@garelalexandre3252 Je te retourne le compliment.
A very interesting part of history and time in the world
This is excellent. Many thanks 👍
Thank you, very informative. . 👍
Great episode. I hope you tackle the Algerian War 1954-1962 using the same format.
This is after the British had defeated the Vietnamese indepence fighters at the end of the war. The stable base they created allowed the French to reoccupy Vietnam with inexperienced Vichy French forces and some of the old french soldiers that had been prisoners under the Japenese. The British left in order to sort out the problems that were brewing in Malaysia.
that's why the resistance was not as strong as in the central and north. Thanks for pointing this out. Most CZcamsrs are just going to ignore it and go with the agenda that Viet Minh stopped at the 17th parallel and said that the South was just plainly anti-communist.
Người Anh chưa bao giờ đánh nhau với Viet Minh.Họ chỉ vào miền Nam giải giáp quân đội Nhật và rút đi.người Mỹ còn không đánh lại VC nữa là người Anh!
@@havu-oj4qh người Anh có đánh và có tái vũ trang lính Nhật để đánh Việt Minh. Chính Anh đẩy Việt Nam khỏi Sài Gòn và vài cứ điểm ngoại ô.
@@nhienleminhhue6605
Post them sources! Trust me bro, isn't a source
@@nhienleminhhue6605 Don't exaggerate and distort history, my father and my grandfather were Viet Minh soldiers during the fight against the French colonialists. The British have never had a direct war with our army. Whatever our history is, we know better than you. Please do not distort history.
Brilliant video, thank you very much
Thanks
It was an informative and wonderful introduction episode about indochinese revolutionaries against French colonial power .Giap was a great military leader who's militarily led vietmin and Vietcong rather than former north Vietnam 🇻🇳 army for liberals Vietnam twice....thank you an excellent ( real time history) channel for sharing this magnificent episode
Giáp didn't won in Điện Biên Phú l, Mao did!!! He lost in Khe Sanh trying to reiterate what he didn't do!!!
@@paulnguyen-thanh5587didn’t win*
I was blown away at Ken Burns Vietnam documentary and the history of that area. Then I watched Apocalypse Now and it all clicked
Great Documentary thanks for sharing it
Great video. Thank you
Excellent start to the series. I am already looking forward to the next episode. The US involvement in the Vietnam War was truly ironic. The other word to describe it is tragic.
Why? North Vietnam attack and conquered South Vietnam. Do u find this a nice way to behave?
@@juanzulu1318 There wasn’t a single nation call South or North Vietnam. It was Vietnam until the westerners came.
And we didn’t attack base on conclusion the vote was to united the country. Not for the South president to rig the vote and to claim their own nation.
@@juanzulu1318 South Vietnam president changing the vote and go against what was promised in the Geneva Conference you call that a nice way of behave.
Why don’t the south president give a fair election than we see who came out on top.
It wasn’t by the South that drove French out.
@@thanhhoangnguyen4754 whatever south vietnam did or did not. It was not the business of the communists from the north.
@@juanzulu1318 It is our business because it is our country nation, it is Vietnam not South Vietnam or even USA business here. We are like USA did it to their own during their history time.
What the South decide or not decide what to do within their own land is none of those damm Republican Northerners business for sending their troop into the South.
Like i said the USA had no right to judge us in this especially when they also did the same thing in the past to their own country on their American soil.
Ho Chi Minh lived in America for a while.. He knew what freedom was and freedom at any means necessary!
And knew that from the beginning he believed in America, but was soon disappointed with America's help for France in the Indochina war 1.There 2 US pilots were killed in DienBien Phu.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography/map job. Enabling the viewer's to better understand what the orator was describing. Unfortunately that region has always experienced turmoil for 1000's of years.
Thanks! Gr8 Vid, Jesse
Love to see it from you. Hồ Chí Minh and (especially) Võ Nguyên Giáp are some of the most underrated figures of the 20th century, relative to their importance.
Better Google Pham Xuan An then.the spy that defeated the US and fear the Viet Cong
Excellent work ... but a second video needed about the battle of Dien Bien Fu.
Coming soon.
I appreciate the details in this video!
Thank for your video. There are alot of historical informations.
Ironically, if the french had given Vietnam it's independence, it would have done a lot more to restore France's prestige...
This is why I gave We Were Soldiers extra merit points as it gave us a snippet of the doomed French involvement in Vietnam.
Nice video 👍
Really great to see factual unbiased history not written by the victors. As a Brit living in France i've watched old footage of the French liberating France with the help of the allies in 1944, America liberating Europe twice with no mention of profiteering or my own fair country and its brutal empire. Thanks, its like a breath of fresh air
Giap was a great General in battle . He learned from his defeat at Na San . The French didn't ! Instead , they put their best troops into Dienbienphu and lost the war .
Thank you for making this. I have always been very interested in this particular indochina conflict. As France was doing the same fighting that the US did later but with much worse weapons and support and tech.
Hey guys, those fightings tried and failed to prevent 3 millions of victims during the followed peace time after 1975!!! This bullshit peace was awarded by a Nobel price of peace that people should rename it Nobel price for 3 millions of killings!!!
Oh excuse me only one million regarding Hà Nội themself!!!
Viet Minh at this time was also very poorly equipped (mostly old guns).
Tip top, guys!
thanks for the video
For those who would like to gain deeper understanding of the first Indochina war and the root of the Vietnam war. Check out the writings of the historian Philippe Deviller.
French Indochina was actually a federation of four protectorates and one colony: Tonkin, Annam, Cambodia, Laos, and Cochinchina. Of the five colonial entities, Cochinchina located in the south around Saigon (present-day Ho Chi Minh City) was a colony directly governed by France. After the 1954 Geneva Conference, Cochinchina would merge with Tonkin and Annam to form Vietnam.
What if after being forced to give up Tonkin, Annam, Cambodia, and Laos in 1954, France held onto Cochinchina?
What seems incredible is the fact that the US was defeated by Vietnam. What? Did the US lose the war against Nam? OMG! Against a poor country, undeveloped, malnourished, without Navy, without Air Force, NO Marines, Green Berets, SEALs, Rangers, Delta Force, USMC, Rambos nor Chuck Norris. Defeated by a country of peasants without strategic plans, no B-59 Bombers, no PT-Boats, no Northrop F-5 "Freedom Fighter", nor Atomic Submarines. Without Aircraft Carriers, NO Continental Missiles, nor Tanks, Choppters, AR-15, Gatlin Machines’, Flamethrowers, Napalm, Agent Orange. NADA! And to top it off, defeated by an army of teenagers who had no shoes: WITHOUT SHOES!!! Army that fought with bamboo sticks!!! Charlie Kicked Our Asses and even invaded our Embassy. Jeezzz!!! Here is the Duty, Courage and Chanting of Heroism of the US Army. This is the True Story of our Country. This is the History that is already written in the US Books. And the History that was written in Afghanistan is made with the same ink.
Cant, there is still another organisation - South Vietnam Liberation Front that wrecked havoc in Cocochine. The French in fact did not held Cocochine, they held Saigon and highland regions of the South, the lowlands and marshland are almost untouchable by the French because of the SVLF and local militia, these were the allies of Ho's force, then after the French they worked along side the North to create a almost pincer move. So if they give all but Cocochine, they would soon fall due to the SVLF.
Funny question. In France we are taught that helding Indochina after 1945 was a huge mistake only allowed by the instability of 4th Republic. That's what caused 30 years of war in Vietnam and around, talk about failed decolonization....at least Viets aren't angry anymore.
Protectorates ARE colonies. It's the difference between whether it has a nominal head-of-state or simply recognizes the colonizer's HOS as its own HOS. Using a private company to subjugate people is also colonialism (British-East India, Dutch-East India, Portuguese East-India, Hudson Bay companies).
Do not fabricate stupid history . Vietnam is an independent country, unified and with territorial integrity according to the Geneva (1954) and Paris Agreements (1973) . The French divided to rule, that was their job when was not defeated yet
Buenísimo el video....enhorabuena y a seguir adelante
Real talk; the honesty in the Nebula plug was classy af.
Hope you Cover France war in Algeria. Especially in light of current threats of invasion of Niger
The French returned to Vietnam with the agreement of the British and Americans who did not recognize the Declaration of Independence by Ho Chi Minh. That’s what caused the Vietnamese War as we know it.
Vietnam is independent long times ago before US and British empire was born .The cause of war was USA sabotaged election in 1956 for fear of Ho Chi Minh won election .So don't preach to Vietnamese people about American "democracy"!
Didn’t think I would ever see the true cause brought front and center. Thank you, I’ve waited too hear something like this sense 1955.
Excellent job. 😊
Giap is one of the most talented generals in Vietnamese history and is also a rare general who is respected by both the communist and anti-communist factions. He is almost a living legend to the Vietnamese people. Despite his extremely great military career, after the war ended, he was hardly respected, he was only given small positions, was not recognized for his contributions and had no voice politics. He was even forced to be the head of the birth planning department for 15 years. This is so ridiculous that Vietnamese people have come up with a joke: "In the past, generals were in charge of the army, today generals control women's vaginas". Even so, he still silently suffered for many years. And perhaps the greatest irony of his life also came when, after many years of unrecognition, he accidentally became the center of attention after a French article recounted his military career and recognizing his contributions in the war. The article created a wave of historical revision and ultimately created General Giap's reputation today.
The French do what Vietn-don't.
overrated for sure. he wasn't exactly incompetent, but he at first didn't face a real enemy and then his victories were not on the field, what won was the propaganda. many operations against the US were a disaster, but it succeeded in morale nontheless because of 1 communism control at home and 2 american weakness at home.
@@me67galaxylife Surely you would impose the thought of "counting corpses" to use it as a criterion for "failure" of the Viet Minh before the United States or before France? hey bro, when you join a battle, what is your goal? Your words sound like people who only know how to look at statistics on a piece of paper. The truth is that because of that "corpse counting" mindset, many of the death tolls of the Viet Cong were exaggerated in the campaigns of the United States and its allies in the Vietnam War because if the numbers were not exaggerated, If that number increases many times, the US Congress will put great pressure on the president and the Department of Defense as well as reduce the morale of American soldiers participating in the war in Vietnam. For example, at the battle of ia-drang, the Americans announced that 1 American soldier died in exchange for 12 Vietnamese communist soldiers. That number is absurd because only a week later the Viet Cong battalion was still able to continue fighting, which according to the Americans, with the huge losses they counted, should have been wiped out. In addition, in the battle of ia-drang, the Vietnamese communist side was the attacking side, the American side was the defending side and they were attacked, resisted and retreated, so how on earth could they count bodies under those circumstances?
That's just one example and there are many other classic examples. In addition, as I said, the US did not lose much of its military, but it lost an unreasonable amount of finance and weapons to hunt down the Viet Cong and with results not commensurate with what was spent, it was the reason that US president and The Ministry of National Defense tried to cover everything up and it was only a matter of time before the people and the National Assembly discovered the failure of the noodle campaigns in Vietnam.
Not a *_living_* legend anymore, but a legend nonetheless.
@@HigehiroGo So, because of an "inconsistency" you've pulled out of nowhere the whole death toll is wrong ? My my, why isn't this plastered everywhere, and why aren't people discussing this heavily, after all the vietnamese lost much less then we'd ever think, there must be proofs everywhere of that and maybe even declassified documents confirming this !
Clearly you're a misunderstood genius with solid proofs. But i guess you're not gonna deny the 2 millions civilians casualties in north and south vietnam for some reasons huh ?
When you can't count bodies properly on site, you use recon and/or you estimate based on the reports of the situation you managed to get, along with data from previous battles. Pretty basic stuff.
And of course it lost money because guess what, it's a war. At the end of the day, on a purely tactical level it was money well spent. Unfortunately, the US failed to realize the bigger plan was bad. Their strategy sucked and they failed to beat the north because of it, many other countries would have won, even france actually after finally having recovered from world war 2. Just look at algeria, the war there was won militarily.
You minimize the British involvement in Saigon. The Viet Minh controlled Saigon at the end of the war and the British sent in a military force to seize it from them. They even released and armed interned Japanese soldiers to help them take it from the Viet Minh. They did that to restore French authority there. They transported French troops to the country. So you could say that the British started the Vietnam wars.
Incidentally, the British did the same thing in Indonesia to restore Dutch control there.
I would add a few important points rarely discussed:
France received $2.4 billion from the US for post-World War II reconstruction through the Marshall Plan, accounting for 18% of the total $13.3 billion allocated to Europe.
By contrast, the US provided France with approximately $2.6 billion in material aid for the Indochina War, covering about 80% of the war's total cost.
This support was crucial, as the Indochina War started in 1947, a time when France was still grappling with the devastation of World War II. The French population would continue living on food stamps throughout the entirety of the Indochina war, highlighting the prolonged economic struggle within the country during this period.
The conflict in Indochina was deeply unpopular in France, often referred to as "la sale guerre" (the dirty war), which limited the French government's political maneuverability. To minimize domestic backlash, nearly all soldiers were recruited from France's other colonies.
Furthermore, a mutual fear of communism's global spread united French and American leadership. This shared apprehension significantly motivated the US’s financial and military support for France during the Indochina conflict, reflecting the strategic interests behind the decisions on foreign aid and military support during this era.
Nebula is great! Real Time is great! Life is great!
The" human wave attack" is often misunderstood and smeared by the West as the mindless "banzai attack", as it actually refers to the light infantry assault often in 3-5 soldiers per group, each group attacking the enemy position from a different direction and at different timings. Like waves rhythmically hitting a shore, a small assault group setting can most largely reduce the loss (compared to em being crowded together) when facing an unexpected machinegun/arti ambush.
Ho Chi Minh was quite a fraudster, given the many names he used: Nguyen That Tanh, Nguyen Ai Quoc, etc.
On the other hand, Vo Nguyen Giap was the real deal: a history teacher by profession, he didn't have military experience at first, but proved a quick study in military tactics. His main problem was that he tried too often to transition from guerrilla to conventional warfare, resulting in heavy losses to his men.
Reading your comment, Henry Knox in the American War for Independence came to mind. Not any real experience but he read a lot of books and was a quick study.
Very Much Thanks! Lost understanding about an area not on the forefront of most persons historical research!
Thanks!
thansk to France for giving vietnam a big morale boost, how inspiring.
People think about Napoleon III is nothing more than Napoleon Bonaparte's grandson, but he and his wife are the one who excuse for the invasion of Dainam (name of Vietnam at that time).
He invaded to protect Catholic missionaries and converts. How noble and a mark of a true Catholic monarch.
He was Napoleon's great-nephew, not his grandson.
yes, but most of the battles consolidating the power of France in the region happened in the 1870s-1880s (several wars between China and France over Tonkin), which was under France's 3rd republic.
Napoléon III was neither Napoléon I's grandson nor his great nephew, he was his nephew : he was the son of Napoléon I 's brother Louis and his wife Hortense, who happened to be the daughter of Napoléon's first wife Marie Joseph Rose known as Joséphine.
Watched on Nebula, commenting here to boost the reach!
Great ending to a great video... Just name dropping Dien Bien Phu and trusting the viewers to know the rest of the story.
I think they are going to do a part 2. That said, this was a great dive into the first Indochina War, which is rarely discussed in any greater detail besides Dien Bien Phu.