We have CRACKED Indus Valley Script.... Somewhat
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Indus Valley Script has been one of the oldest unsolved mysteries in the world.
In this video we have made an attempt to solve a few Indus signs with the help of Linear Elamite and Proto Sinaitic and Brahmi scripts.
Apparently we have managed to crack the Indus Valley Script, and while it's far from complete, it's a big step forward in deciphering the ins and outs of the Indus Valley Civilization.
This is by no means a final or complete decipherment, but it's an exciting development nonetheless. In this video, I'll take you through the latest news and developments in the Indus Valley Script saga, and share with you what this means for Indian history. Stay tuned for more updates as we move closer and closer to a full understanding of this ancient civilization!
The music is made by artist named HoliznaCC0 and we thank him for that.
#indusvalleycivilization #indusscript #indianhistory #ancienthistory #harappancivilisation
Incredible. Absolutely Incredible. I've also been into the Indus Script and trying to make observations of the seals pattern and way of usage etc., but you took it to another level. Great job! I like how you connected Elamite and Brahmi to the Indus script, especially. Many people have tried to put up similarities and possible theories of Brahmi-Indus connection, and most completely disregarded Elamite and saw it as a language isolate (though a small minority of researchers have connected IVC script with Elamite). This would also have to do w/ the origin of the Indus people and their trade connections with Elam and other places. One more area that could possibly hold an interesting story is the almost unkown Oxus Civilization, which existed during the same time of the IVC near the river of Amu Darya in central Asia. They had fully fortified cities, fire altars w/soma pots, a structural palace etc. It is also called the BMAC (Bactria Margiana Archeological Complex) which is quite an unromantic name. Even the first excavations of this civilization revealed that trade between them and the IVC was abundant as shown by seals there (as far as Turkmenistan), most likely exported through the IVC post of Shortugai in central asia. Some (undeciphered) bits of writing have also been found in the Oxus. Future excavations could reveal linguistic and cultural similarities between the IVC and the Oxus. Something definitely interesting to think about. The Oxus Civilization ended around 1800 BCE, the same time as the Indus. Other than that, these symbols that you managed to decipher have also been deciphered the exact same by other researchers like Sue Sullivan and Yajnadevam, among others. Especially the "Namana" that you mentioned was also recorded exactly by sullivan and yajnadevam. The dotted line as "na" has been mentioned many times, your brilliant research only reaffirms that :). the "Ma" sound as the fish seems most probable because not only does it look similar to the Brahmi Ma as you showed, but also because the dravidian word for fish is "Min", and the Sanskrit word for fish is "Matsya". Most other indian Language groups have their word for fish startibg with a "M" sound, which I thought was interesting. Also, the "B" sound as the box also reminded me of something, that semitic and middle eastern languages like aramaic etc. have the word for "house" as "bet" or "bait". same goes with egyptian (in egyptian it was written as "pr")In Egyptian hieroglyphs, the representation of a house is with a box as well. The box could have possibly represented a house, like they did in Egyptian Hieroglyphs. And w/ the connections with elamite, their writing systems might have been influenced by each other. Anyway, your work is absolutely fantastic! great video!
Buddy, I am grateful to have a subscriber like you :) Thanks for the detailed response.
The only concern of Bramhi-Indus connection is the timeline. I hope we can find some more written records between 18th to 5th centrury BC in futurue which can shed more light onto the history of our subcontinent.
Great mention of Amu Darya actually. There is another river nearby which is called Syr Darya. Recently, one of the researcher friend was mentioning its connection to the Saraswati river. (His research was about any connection of Ramayana with Central asia, it isn't published anywhere yet.) So if in case we don't find any Indus connection, there is a possibility of finding some post Indus connection there.
You are right about the results from other researchers. I actually validated my findings with Asko Parpola. He has been a very important researcher in this field who has been working on this for about 30+ years now.
Also, about the whole comment of yours, I am surprised that you know pr which is house for Egyptian which seems like you have been studying these languages as well. It's pretty amazing to see you here with all your knowledge.
Would you like to get in touch on reddit or something?
Yes, the pottery samples will be amazing. There was another data point that could be useful. In near east, there is possibility that the name of Indian subcontinent was "Meluha". Maybe, just maybe if the Indus civilization called themselves the same thing, we might get some more decipherments of the signs.
I will create a discord account soon and share it with you.
Indus Script is the most deciphered script! Difficult to confirm due to non survival of long texts (Keora leaf, which was used for writing in South India, which is the inheritor of Indus civilisation)
@@DesiConflicts Amu Darya stands for Mother river representing Parvati and Syr Darya i.e. Sir means head and world family head is Shiva. This river before its orgin all dried up now has origin from Shiva lake near Panj valley located south west of Uighuristan and West of Gilgit Baltistan Hindu Kush huge mountain ranges. Also out of 256 or so glyphs of Indus valley , the persian cueniform got nearly 70% of IVC glyphs in it while later day Brahmi (i.e. prelude to Sanskrit of Taxila 500 BC ) is containing almost 90% from IVC glyphs including pictoral number system in the form of vertical tine lines. However after Taxila , later day budhdhist Khamboja kingdom rulers i.e. in Kyber Bolan range developed a practical Prakriti which travelled to Tibet and Bengal and SE Asia as well as South India including Sinhala . The system used by all languages in the above zone is Tigalari, a system developed and spread by budhdhists. Sharda script mixed Brahmi and also same with Gurmukhi . Sarada made to Devanagari all the way to entire north India but still Prakriti was being spoken for all practical purpose. However no archealogical proof is there for Brahmi and also Sanskrit because all of Taxila went to Pakistan and westerners were researching the topic with western perception of Persian language because Persian cueniform is mother of all SW Asia languages. Another reason is budhdhists and Jains who were rulers of entire Central Asia and SW Asia as evidence from Petra perfecture and other archealogical sites in Iran and Iraq and they have not preserved their previous history while they also built a Stupa in Indus valley and probably their heritage also got destroyed by subsequent take over by arabs.
I am also not a researcher. I learnt these things by googling the many authors who have researched IVC vis a vis south indian languages and temple Brahmi inscriptions. thank you sir
Consider most Dravidians have 35% iranic j2 haplagroup aswell as sindh gujrate and boloch people have the most IVC dna. Elamite is definitely the main language to look at.
I'd like see a part 2. I became fascinated with the Indus Valley Civilization over 50 years ago when--after reading Joseph Campbell's "The Masks of God," (most of) Arnold J. Toynbee's "A Study of History," and a few other books, e.g. Lewis Mumford's "The Transformations of Man"--I obtained a BA in history at UC Berkeley. I continue to read about the earliest civilizations (e.g. urban-centered societies), and of course have a particular interest in all written records they left behind. I recall being fascinated by an early, and overoptimistic, start at deciphering the IVC's script in a 1983 issue of "Scientific American." So please, keep on with the good work!
Indians from all parts of our country should participate more in deciphering our past..
It's hard, the British stole most of our money, our GDP per capita is low but overall GDP is high. We need to develop more so we can have the freedom to explore our academia, most people are busy working to make money.
Definitely make a Part 2 . . . that was fascinating and could be quite a groundbreaking bit of research !
Great work !
FYI: the Tamil linguistic already decoded most of the seals. Meen (மீன்) is Thamil word meaning fish.
In Pakistan and Afghanistan there are hundreds of Tamil names (places) which are in Sangam literature and still use in Tamil Nadu. You can verify this information.
And recent excavation in Tamil Nadu, Keezhadi or Keeladi (spell different way) found many artifacts and structures same as IV. The NewsX channel had debates about this. The government does not want to say anything about because it's related to South India or Dravidian Tamils. They stopped giving money for this Keezhadi excavation.
Which Tamil linguist?Can you provide more details
Also where in Pakistan there are Tamil cities I just now checked multiple maps of Pakistan
@@DmitriVolodmir-qj7ne Jeeva sir
@@DmitriVolodmir-qj7ne google search
Type
are Tamil names Korkai in Pakistan and Afghanistan
You will find the maps
I also read this as 'Na-Ma-Na' two years ago using Elamite and proposed readings of some inscriptions. Trust me, its not Abugida Script and it does represent Indo-European Language. Indus Script is Logo-Syllabic. You read basic FISH sign only, not its varients.
My suggestion, in part 2, propose decipherment of other inscriptions where FISH sign varients and different signs are placed within two dotted lines. I spent many hours in this two years, finally to realize thats its not Abugida but a Logo-Syllabic script. Although 'Ma' sound for fish like sign is right according to my study as well.
Bro why use indo eyruoe when europe doesnt exist 8000yr ago . Rakhigadi a indusbiggest site is 8000yr old
@@prabhatsingh5234 wow
@@prabhatsingh5234 because european continent existed and the languages are quite derived from same family. and we have to majorly clarify on the basis of modern regions to have region validity for modern people
Brahmi is not a language. It's a Script. Tamil Brahmi was first form of writing. Meen means Fish.
It is your thinking.
இல்லை.பழைய தமிழ்.தமிழ் .குறியீடு வட்டெழுத்து பிராமி அடுத்தே சதுர எழுத்துக்கள்.இவையெல்லாம் தமிழ்வடிவம்.ஆகமமே பிராமி தான்.சிவன் பெருமாள் கோவில்களில் சொல்லப்படும் மந்திரம் பிராமி வடிவமே.
@@rathinasamys.rathinasamy.1257read about pre vedic script and sanskrit script. Its not tamil tamil and other languages developed later from sanskrit
Matsya is also fish 🐟
@@artsyvibes10😂Sanskrit is developed from paali (brahmi) and parsi. Many letters are not available in paali. Meaning Sanskrit is later work.
Namana translated 🙏 namaste shows a similarity between the pictograph like a fish and the salutation gesture that comes with the Namana=Namaste word. And it can be put next to fish too because the gesture covers the mouth and could have the meaning of good luck, good fortune on your table, your meal, an important primary necessity much more important in ancient times.
That's actually something I never noticed. Good find.
I should look into it to see if there are any insights about the gesture and how/if it was constructed linguistically in the earlier days.
@DesiConflicts following you..
@@reeshitas8152 I do my best.. thanks to "psychoanalytic" (analytic) approach..
Naman.. which means greetings
நமஸ்காரம் தமிழ் இல்லை.வாருங்கள்.கும்புடுகி
என்.அமருங்கள்.
Great effort 👍👍👍👍👍 Would like to see not only part 2 but also a whole series on this!!!
Deal! Coming soon.
I studied classical archaeology with a minor in ancient languages in university and this is an exciting breakthrough. My first exposure to the Rosetta Stone was utterly fascinating. I anticipate a discovery one day of something that will be as useful for Indus Valley as there was with Rosetta. Keep up the videos my friend!
Why not Dravidian?
Art historian and university professor, here. It is deceptive to say that the Indus Valley script has been "cracked.".
There's been no obvious single breakthrough that has led to a definite decoding. No Rosetta Stone. No key to the puzzle. Even if we had such a thing, there would still be a process of decoding with years of debate, clarifications and corrections.
All we have are a range of scholars who have come up with hypotheses - some better than others - about some graphemes (signs, symbols,, pictographs, ideographs, characters etc).
There's NO scholarly consensus on any of it. And there's certainly no definitive proof that any of these proposals are accurate.
There is, however some hope that progress is being made. Thats significant.
And viewers need to be aware that there are also well-meaning, but incompetent amateurs and quite a few charlatans who say all kinds of nonsense about it. Some of them are politically inspired by Hindu nationalism which is NOT a helpful bias in any historical scholarship - especially one like this which needs pure objective calculating logical reasoning to get anywhere at all.
(And yes, Indian readers, I love your ancient civilization and modern nation, but politicizing history diminishes accuracy, no matter who is doing it.)
This CZcamsr is well-meaning. I just think it's important to make people aware of the reality. Otherwise you end up misinforming while trying to educate.
History has always been politicised and that is why you had pre Hindu nationalism history which was also slanted.
But at that time, any professors, rarely, spoke against that, unless they were nationalists.
So your point, while well meaning, is useless honestly
Meen in Tamil also means Fish.
It is not only in English, as per your description.
Please go through the works of Dr.Iravatham Mahadevan who emphatically declared that Tamil was the language spoken in Saraswati River Civilization. Indus Valley is the term coined by the Britishers.
Moreover many places in Tamil Nadu have the same names as that prevailed in Indus Valley.
Korkai, Dondi etc are the ancient seaports that were in Tamil Nadu. These names were prevalent in Indus Valley also representing seaports.
Moreover the Town Planning of Mohenjedero and Madurai in Tamil Nadu resemble exactly the same. The roads cutting at right angles and under ground sewerage system, water management etc
Thanks for the comment. I did refer to some of the work by Dr. Iravatham for this video.
Sambar idly indus valley language is proto Dravidian not Tamil
Who gave the word Saraswathi?
From your tribe’s imagination.
Do not try to bend or distort history to get it cunningly connected with your wish or belief.
@@Joseph-yu4lx Truth is sometimes bitter , Mr. Joseph .
Indus river is still there in Punjab as well as in Pakistan but Saraswathi had dried 4000 years ago and its course has drastically changed.
It is not one's belief Joseph but evidenced by Satellite Images available in Google. So, please check it and then correct your belief. Amen
I'm 46 years old now. When I was a little boy I had a big book put out by Reader's Digest called The World's Last Mysteries, published in 1976, a year before I was born. They talk about Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, and the mysterious script of this mysterious civilization. They had no idea what it said or how to interpret it. There were many theories, including one that said there might be a link between the Harappans and Easter Island, since their scripts had some similarities. It's been a long time coming, but it's exciting to see people are finally making progress on it. I hope we get to learn a lot more about the Harappans. The more mysterious a people, the more intrigued I become. That's why I like ancient history and prehistory so much--the tantalizing mystery coupled with the ache of knowing we will never know everything.
Wrong assumptions. Brahmi is adaption from Thamili. Keeladi excavation proved Thamili existing since 2300 BC.
Please come up with translation then or don't talk random shit. It might be possible that both were contemporary.
In bramhi script :
Na - 𑀡
Ta - 𑀢
Ga - 𑀕
Ma - 𑀫
Sa - 𑀲
Ba - 𑀩
Thanks for posting this.
Ga and Sa resemble closely to the present letters of same sound in Telugu.
Great! No words! I think we will be able to progress to 75% of the scripts soon! I think the last syllable in each word can be half. Like instead of namanah we may have to read it Naman (in hindi it exists). Anyway, congrats!!
isn't the indus script read from right to left?
Yes right to left only
If we postulate that the Noachian Flood occurred -3327/26 and that men began to move from the Ark area some 80 years later we have -3247. Any really old inscriptions might have the name Noah included or Flood or an early Indian patriarch. That is a Ham descendent - Nimrod? Look for something similar.
Thank you for this incredibly interesting video! I also really enjoyed the one about horses.
I just saw a Finnish scholar saying the fish is probably ”min", which is the proto-dravidian for fish, and homophonous with proto-dravidian for star, since it's used in some contexts where the meaning star makes sense.
I guess you are talking about Asko Parpola and yes I agree with what he has proposed. He has done great work throughout his life.
But we won't be 100% sure till we get more data to cross reference it.
Fish sign resonates with Matsya or Meen both. In Elamite also it has the same meaning of Ma.
I think Brahmi is the developed version of Indus. If Indus script can exist from 3000 BC to 1500 BC. It is possible for Brahmi to survive from 1500 BC to 500 AD. Archiological surveys should work more to get the evidence.
@@mohansatpute5948There is also a symbol of bow. I think it represents the sound 'dha' from dhanush/bow. Even now in Bengali and Devanagari alphabet, the letter for 'dha' looks like a bow. Regarding the sound 'na', I think it's the symbol that looks like a man/nara. There are many seals where these two symbols are next to each other, spelling dhana/wealth
That’s great! We should raise awareness as many still think that Brahmi is derived from Semitic scripts… (It becomes evident when you watch one of those videos that claim that every alphabet is descended from Proto-Sinaitic)… We could link it back to the Indus Valley script instead
Part 2 would be wonderful! Thank you for sharing this.
Waiting for part 2, you have done such a nice effort Thanku so much for this.
Will upload soon. Thanks for supporting us.
czcams.com/video/gp8whTglAfg/video.html 🙏🙏
I love the scientific methology you have adopted to get to your hypothesis. Carry on the good work!
Brilliant video. Absolutely stunned. Waiting for the second part.
Another big challenge here (similar to the Minoan Linear A script) is that Harrapan culture probably used a Dravidian language (like Tamil) whereas Brahmin and Elamite may have been based on Indo-European languages.
So it’s hard to say what syllables they were actually using or even if this is a syllabry. Another possibility is that it is logographic system with no relation to syllables.
But it’s still worth this effort to keep investigating.
True. We need to atleast find an intermediate language/script to get more inference.
Extremely interesting. I hope I live long enough to see this script deciphered. It's puzzling to me that such an advanced ancient culture has such a paucity of written records.
who's decipherment is this? is there any paper to follow more detail?
Its amazing. Ur efforts will surely solve the mystery one day.
Thank you so much 😀 I am hoping to continue working on it in the coming days, months and years.
Admirable effort. Keep it up. Goodluck!
Great video! Please make a part 2
I will soon. Thanks for watching.
Deciphering the Indus script can only be in line with spoken prakrit, as Egyptian, Sumerian and Greek all conform with their spoken languages.
There's two things we are unable to decipher, and that's the indus script and the jiăgŭwén scripts. mean, we can somewhat decipher parts but not the full thing.
I would definitely be interested to hear more about the work to decipher this language. I have also heard elsewhere that the Harrapan Culture may be considerably older than originally thought.
There have been partial decodings like this before. Another way to test the hypothesis would be to look at the similar seals found in the Persian Gulf. Their arrangement of symbols is said to be different, which suggests they may be in a different language. Why not try this decoding on them and see if it makes sense in Elamite or any other known language of that region, such as Akkadian or Sumerian?
Yes, that's totally right. That is something we are going to show in the next videos in this series.
While this is an interesting video and hypothesis, i doubt that brahmi will be much help since as you said brahmi was first written ~300bc but the harappan script ceased to be written in ~1900bc. That’s ~1600 years in between these scripts, and it’s frankly impossible for the harappan/indus script to be in any way related to brahmi. Linear elamite could maybe work, but even then i doubt it.
You are not wrong. I have been basing this all off of hypothesis that even though languages evolve and change its form, simpler forms do retain most of their forms.
The "Ma" symbol or the fish symbol is a very interesting example of this.
The letter "ma" has remained similar for most of it's life as a descendant of the bramhi in present day langugages. The symbol being the upside down form of fish symbol makes it more fascinating as you can clearly see the way it got simplified in the bramhi.
But yes, the language as a whole will be beyond identifying in the span of 1700 years that is why I am also using other sister languages like Linear Elamite and not relying on Bramhi completely.
Please don't say the Brahmi script is 300 BCE. Brahmi script is engraved in Tamil Nadu and Srilanka on postherds dating back to 600 BCE.
There is no scholarly consensus about it. Researchers have deemed those inscriptions in Tamil Nadu as megalithic graffiti and not Bramhi.
At this stage, the consensus says that the 3rd Century BC is where we start finding the Brahmi we know of. If some valid proof is found that tells us that Brahmi is older then we will re-adjust the timeline to show that. But at this stage no such substantial proof exists.
@@DesiConflicts kindly go through "Thamizhi playlist from hiphop thamizha" channel . U will get fascinating evidences of the script. It contains 8 episodes. Nobody has decipher and proved as us.. Thus it is already proved to be a tamil civilization spoke thamizh languge and used Thamizhi script.
@@thanu-go1ts Can you give some scholarly journal on this so called Thamizh language and Thamizhi script ?. What was the dating of this Thamizhi script ?. Is this related to Brahmi script ?.
It is good to rely on contemporary or nearly contemporary languages prevailing at that time to decipher the pictorial signs of the IVC. In a civilization it goes without saying a spoken lanugage always exists but a script for that may or may not be exisiting. After the IVC vanished, there was no evidence of continuation of any civilization in that pertinent area for several centuries, it is not known whether Brahmi script taken any roots from IVC signs as the gap between IVC and development of Brahmi is too wide. Since the research shows that all Indian languages said to have been derived from Brahmi, I think tamil or sanskrit or any dravidian languages can not be a source to decipher IVC signs.
Yes, part 2!
Good one .. keep it up. I think Indian schools need to have this as a foundational subject from the primary schools.
Children would be more interested to play with this than mug who were the Mughal emperors and delhi sultanates :0)
Will be making more videos about it soon. I think I will cover some Mughal history as well in the future but not the way it is shown in school. There is more to history than just battles and dates. :)
Thank you for kind words.
Meen make perfect sense for maa sound. Bcz we still use the word meen for fish. It's giving me butterflies as our ancestor's in indus have the same word😍
It may be lamda and delta only..arti-fish-ial intelligence. The double line,is twice,single is once,its used in sanskrit mantras.
I like your videos a lot. They are very informative and knowledgeable.
But please, can you answer some questions about the recent excavations in sinauli -
1) Were those people really using horse driven chariots
2) Is sinauli a vedic period site or Harappan site
3) if the people of sinauli were Vedic people then is it correct that Vedic Civilization and Indus Valley Civilization coexisted for some time
4) Were those people somehow related to the battle of Mahabharat
Awsome questions Dev.
I am covering question # 1,2 and #3 in the upcoming video in detail. So stay tuned, I am planning to release it in next 5 days or so.
About question #4, no. Mahabharata is dated to be way after the Indus Civilization ended. By the time of Mahabharata, use of chariots was very common. About the people being related genetically, it can be a possibility as there was intermixing of people with the ones that brought chariots into the subcontinent. (Next video is about horses)
Sinauli site is financed by BJP and Uttar Pradesh government .
The excavations in Sinauli were conducted by Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) in 2005-06 and in mid-2018.
The same Archaeological Survey of India . which tried to stop and Hide the DNA result of the Rakhigarhi and transferred the ASI officer Amarnath Ramakrishna of keezhadi excavation site because the keezhadi excavation site symbols which has similarities with Indus valley symbols .
According to Asko Parpola those finds were Ox or Bull - pulled carts not horse - pulled "chariots " .
The Bull carts are made for lifting heavyweights . So , They need solid wheels to contain heavy loads .
The horse - pulled "chariots " wheels are made very lightweighted . Because they were made for go faster .
so the chariots founded in Sinauli were not " Horse Chariots " They were Bull carts .
They were made for bull carts with solid wheels to contain heavy loads .
Light chariots could be dismantled and carried across unfavorable terrain which heavier types could not, which enhanced their efficiency for warfare.
@@mscreationworks5787 Very true. Good insights. I do refer to Asko Parpolas work while doing research on Indus Valley.
@@DesiConflicts Yes , I have Read lots of Paper by Asko Parpola on Indus valley civilization
Fascinating! These ancient scripts are way beyond my level of competence. I have done a lot of work with the Voynich Manuscript but at least the writing system has elements of modern alphabets. Some of my research has included looking at Indo-European languages and Proto-Slavic. At some point I read a piece explaining that H & K are kind of the same letter. As I understood the research, the original sound was like KH, a deep throat sound. When I saw the possible h'uh in the video, I thought of that. Would it be a soft H like we have in English or would it have a stronger throat sound that is not found in English.
One other thing, in a video about Middle Eastern archaeology, I remember seeing a photograph of pottery or something and it looked like an Indus Valley seal was among the pieces. The location, as I remember was Babylon. So, it made sense to me that Indus Valley merchants probably had contact with other groups and probably shipped goods to other places. I have long wondered if the seals primarily identify persons or businesses directly connected to particular goods that were sent out of the Indus valley to markets far away.
Yes. The seals travelled across the old world, there is a hope that there is a bilingual seal somewhere out there that can atleast help us provide some data that can help push the decipherment.
@@DesiConflicts The seals must have had a universal meaning or intelligibility in areas where they have been found.
Great video, would be glad to see part 2
Carry on the good work. This decipher ment would be the greatest breakthrough.
Sure, do make the part 2 and make it in detail. Very commendable effort.
Dear,
But you are doing great job, keep it up. One day we found our Indus civilization script of Mohenjo Daro. There are some many things hidden in Mohenjo Daro, But we are not in Europe, so there is not interest in indus civilization. But we hope for betterment.
Waiting for part two. Brilliant finding
Most of the writing looks like their gods, their food count, and their hunting excursions
I have a hard time imagining a concrete connection between the fish symbol and Brahmi 'ma'. I think it is a bit arbitrary of you to flip a symbol randomly and say these are equivalent based on their apparent visual similarity. You must explain how you established the connection between the Brahmi 'ma' and the fish symbol with more evidence. Otherwise, it's just a hypothesis. Also, Brahmi is a script, not a language.
Yes, and Indus valley script is also a script.
The Ma being exactly upside down form was one clue.
Asko Parpola has come up to a similar solution by a different route with the fish sign meaning "meen".
But very honestly, there is no way to accurately know this till we can validate it with a rosetta stone of some sort.
@@DesiConflicts yeha! I read Asko Parpola's argument that both in Indo-Aryan and Dravidian languages, sometimes fish represents the word 'meen', therefore the fish sign likely bears the 'ma' sound. However, I think this argument is flawed since it presumes that the language of IVC must have been either Indo-Aryan or Dravidian while it is very much possible that the language could be entirely a different language. One cannot rule out the possibility that the language could also be related to the Elamite language, which is a language isolate, since their scripts bear so much similarity and they were in geographical proximity. I believe, this is called the 'Exclusivity Fallacy'.
@@DesiConflicts Anyways, my point is that one must be cautious while making poorly substantiated claims regarding the subject because there are complicated political consequences to it.
@@dangerous_ideas16 The only information I have revealed is what seems highly likely with the currently available information. If we are looking for truth, we should not worry about political consequences.
@@DesiConflicts If we are seeking truth, we need to prioritise the collection of evidences that are rigorous and consistent than presented in this line of argumentation before making hyped-up claims and videos with clickbait titles. Otherwise, the political consequences will cause unnecessary suffering. It's good to talk to you though. You are doing a good job.
I always believed NAMASTE was from PIE ( a cognate with “nimble” in fact). I believed it meant “I bend (bow) to you”.
It is and it is my bad for badly representing it.
I wanted to describe the way it sounds and not what it means.
In reallity linear elamite has "na-ma-na" as a word which corresponds to daytime. For dravidian, it corresponds to Dravidian nal or 'day'
Would you recommend few books related to the history of ancient indus valley ?
I will recommend names of few researcher who have done great work around it. Asko Parpola, Andreas Fuls and Marta Ameri.
As a piece of caution, stay away from research only published on academia.edu. There are a lot of weird stuff which is constantly being published there for Indus valley. That stuff is not peer reviewed.
@@DesiConflicts oh thanks for your information and warning as well. 🙏
Interesting. It's ntnpossible to be certain but your attempt sounds logical.
Namaste actually comes from Sanskrit "Namas", which comes from a Proto-Indo-European word "Nemos" (meaning to bow or salute). It is cognate with Persian "namaz", which is the word for prayer among South Asian Muslims.
The descendants of Sindhus valley residents who had stationed there to trade conveniently with western countries like Sumeria,had to migrate and shift their settlements due to some valid reasons. One of the reasons may be the intrusion of uncultured thugs like people who came from Siberian grasslands and their savage like behaviour arrogating every valuable thing found.
The descendants of the Sindhus valley people after many trials and tribulations finally returned homeland Tamilnadu. They are living in Chettinadu following their cultural traditions and practices. They are specially named and called NAGARATHHAR meaning people living in cities.
Consider Classic Hebrew as the Rosette Stone for deciphering Indus Script.
Hebrew was not around at that time.
awesome work, waiting for part 2 and more🤩
There must be a decipherable rosetta stone somewhere out there, it's hard to imagine how the indus valley was a such a thriving economic hub of trade without there being a reliable way to communicate between cultures, we find indus steatite seals in neighbouring civilizations, its simply not possible that they didn't have a shared form of communication
The problem with this is, we don't have any long written records of this script. Which could mean that the language was more like text in the big posters. It means something, but doesn't have proper content in it.
But yes, I am with you here. I hope to find a rosetta stone some day.
Bro ,
Even New Research Studies showed that Indus valley civilization people used to speak Proto Dravidian languages
The DNA of a male skeleton founded in Indus valley Rakhigarhi excavation site . Which was ( Classified as 'I4411' ) shows affinity genetic similarities with present-day South Indian tribal populations , most notably the " Irula Tribal group " population in the Nilgiri Mountains of kerala and Tamil Nadu
. A total of 61 skeletons were found till 2016.
True.
That's why I mentioned we have to use the sister languages like proto-dravidian to potentially decipher the script.
More research is surely needed to know more about the script. The data we have is just not enough.
@@DesiConflicts Also Keezhadi excavation site symbols has similarities with Indus valley civilization symbols
True. I haven't really been involved with any south indian sites yet but I am planning to.
I am actually learning Tamil Brahmi these days to see if that helps provide more insights about Indus Script.
One more point since which period Indian's started burning bodies?
@@svanimation8969 That is also a good way to establish when Indo-Europeans entered the subcontinent. Rigveda pre-dominantly mentions only cremations and we started to see the cremations around 1300-1200BC. Which is actually around the right time when/after the indo europeans approximately settled down in the subcontinent.
Yes. Need video 2 explaining why and how. otherwise it’s just a guess.
Me who waiting for him to traslate that indus script: 🗿
They look very similar to oracle bone script of the Shang dynasty in China. I wonder if anyone has tried to compare the two.
There is also a symbol of bow. I think it represents the sound 'dha' from dhanush/bow. Even now in Bengali and Devanagari alphabet, the letter for 'dha' looks like a bow. Regarding the sound 'na', I think it's the symbol that looks like a man/nara. There are many seals where these two symbols are next to each other, spelling dhana
amezing information,Great efforts Ishan👍
Were there better situations in Pakistan and Afghanistan, we could have found much more of evidences that are still beneath the ground,
Afghanistan and Pakistan have not done any major work in that area since decades
Superb presentation and would welcome further feedback on your research. Fascinating.
Yes please, we need part 2
Thanks for sharing!!Looking forward to see the whole thing ..❤😅❤😮
I think you have something here. They fact the same sign na is found in linear Elamite.
Very impressed with your work. I hope you also try other untranslated scripts like Rongo Rongo
I have a question. I have zero knowledge about this so I am asking.
Has India - Africa ancient relationship been explored bcs what if Indus valley language is closer to African language?
We still have Jarwa language which sounds similar to African. 🤔
By the way the video is interesting. Will love to see part 2 and more detailed video on different different ancient civilization of India.
Thank you for the kind words.
I have read a great book by Tony Joseph. It's called "Early Indians". You should take a look for the whole history of migration.
Oldest brahmi found in korkai 800BC, adichanallaur 800-500BC, keezhadi 600BC, kodumanal 500BC, palani400BC.
Brahmi ? What's the meaning? Don't say Brahmi. Thamili.
Hi. Thanks for the video. Pl refer to Yajnadevam's video on the decipherment. It looks interesting. He claims complete decipherment. But, still work needs to be done as he has not run his regexp on many languages.
Yes, I have seen his work. To all the people watching this video I do recommend to refer to his video as well to understand the deciphering techniques.
I agree with you that more work needs to be done. Also, I was some disagreements with few of his stuff which I am hoping to address in the next part of the video.
What this means? Early migration happened from Africa/ME to India?
If you are talking about the earliest migration then yes. Around 65000 years ago.
Amazing 👏👏
Great work..
Keep it up..
Waiting for your further research
but namana is sanskrit word and aryan came in india after the harappans
also brahmi is said to be derived from aramaic as it shares similarity with it
Namana doesn't have to be indo-european.
Na-ma-na also exists in Elamite as daytime. Which could be origin of Dravidian nal 'day'
@@DesiConflicts nama come from indo european and na suffix is also indo european
@@DesiConflicts should i give you detailed etymology
@@sohamshinde7978 I am talking about more of Dravidian form of Na-Ma-Na here.
Here is the paper that refers it as well : sci-hub.se/www.jstor.org/stable/2740952
@@DesiConflicts the researcher of the paper says 12 percent similarity b/w elamite and dravidian and this could be because of proximity of the regions as in the case of english
and also you mentioned that namana is salutation .so if you have gave me this paper you should have said its meaning as daytime
why are you not firm on one meaning
Very exiting. Looking for further vedios on the subject. Commendable work.
Good. One Mr. Kalyanaraman claims that he has already kracked indus script. Kindly browse through, it's worth an effort and convincing
None of what Kalyanaraman is published in any peer reviewed journals. Hence his claims are to be taken with a pinch or rather a jar full of salt.
Proud to be a Pakistani. Indus valley civilization was indeed a great civilization. Very useful and informative video!
Glad you liked it!
islam originated in indus valley ..script written right to left like our urdu
@@riddunyra4373 idiots are always there for corruption
@@riddunyra4373 💀
@@idkatthispoint-s9s the statue in indus valley meluha was of greatest warrior adam..who travelled from india to arab to meet his lost love hawa eve..
I think the Indus script must have been written from left to right like Brahmi.
Very interesting. do come up with more posts on this
Yes I have visited many museums, lothal and found that on Indus seal ui found symbols and letters of sounds and their combination like Fish, ox, bull, one horned bull. As an artist myself the second horn cannot be seen in some directions or doesn't have space to show other horn behind such a small seal. Kodeh, koda is young bull in South Indian languages in tamil and telugu and kannada. The bull fights, bull sacrifices to spirits later depicted in Veerabhadra the leaders of dead spirits and ghosts with spears, axes and sickles the son born out of shiva clestial dance tandavi on siva rathri and kill all rakshasa kings including Daksha prajapati.
ய is direct form of 'u'w' which has the same similarity
Asko Parpola has found a pattern with three vertical lines followed by a fish. Which he speculates is Aru-meen meaning 6 stars or 6 fish. He speculates it means Krittika. Using your hypothesis it would be नननम or मननन. I am not sure if it makes much sense, but I’m don’t know Pali. Mr. Parpola also found a pattern with half more bar - which he speculates is 7 stars or Saptarshis. In your case it would be मननन्न?
Try more patterns with the cryptogram technique developed by Yajnadevam. If you are able to come up with a hundred patterns and 90% of alphabet then it would perhaps be taken notice of.
I have doubts but I also have open mind and willing to give it a chance.
I was thinking of commenting about ancient context, because I found something significant in ancient universal mythology and religion, then I ran into your comment. The most recent meteor stream appears to emanate from the Pleiades which everyone points to as the causation of world destructions. Uras Major is secondary to the seven of the Pleiades star cluster, yet mysteriously connected as Gilgamesh throws the Sky Bull's leg at Ishtar and the Egyptians venerated the bovine's leg and is clearly depicted as Ursa major. I have been searching for this connection, the only thing close is that the celestial bombardment of The Younger Dryas Impacts Theory mainly happened at the Great Lakes / Laurentide Ice Sheet of North America with the secondary impacts producing the Carolina Bays. Plus, in the Bible, The Deluge is caused by the Pleiades and the constellation right next to Uras Major. I would suspect the text next to the Bull to be about the Taurus Constellation and The Taurid Meteor Stream, which the Greek's say The First Fire From Heaven came from, and the Throne of God.
Meen- மீன் - ma 🔥
Super News Video
Please make the part 2 which discusses the deciphering the writing system in more details.
Thanku for making video on Indus I'm interested in this subject
It's my pleasure. Thanks for the kind words.
Waiting for part 2 of this highly informative video
The narrator lost me at “somewhat” ….
Well, that is the point. There is not enough data to perfectly say we are 100% right or not. We will only know it only after further evidence is gathered in the coming years.
Interesting, congratulations..your approach is interesting..keep working and collecting both yours and others.. then have sets of values.. may be AI help..
We attempted comparing 1 to 10 as between Tamil, Indus, Sumerian..where numbers as milk accounting, could be sure but sounds not sure.. if used as is in Tamil, Sumerian and all world languages as probables.. we recommend numbers could be good start..
Our postulate that the teaching methods had come down as we started writing..say start from Indus and Sumerian... Tell a story just looking at pictures without any written matters, letters.. and a for Apple & apple means a..
These two teaching methods say see picture and tell story could be more suited to Indus.. a for Apple might be to later part of Sumerian.. I say we are taught a means Amma and Amma means a... alphabetical abstraction in initial phases.. Now I say Sumerian even said a for Ayya..not only ammaa, even include aayaa grand mother..
Consider plurality..both a word, idea, letter, syllables.. different for different groups and periods.. so you will have good collections..
Also show to school children ask them to tell stories.. you will have some more collections..
The unicorn or bull with horns could be tried to read as "komban"..
Join our Facebook group Sumerian is Tamil..
All the best..
I have considered for my collections.. Mathivanan, Mathiazhgan, Poorna Chandra, Kangali..then my own..
Thank you for kind words and I will be looking into it. The approach you mentioned is interesting, I will try to follow through.
Meanwhile, about using AI, I tried that as well.
AI is not at the stage where it can perform better than humans. I went through some research papers that used AI and ML and they had worse performance than humans.
Maybe once we get GPT-4, we will have something better.
Wow that is amazing !I have always had an interest in ancient history. I am just excited about this breakthrough.Looking forward for the next video and many more to come.. Keep up the great work.
Confused. If the fish symbol means aa in Egyptian how does it become ma in Indus?
No fish symbol in egyptian. In ancient egyptian, a vulture or a hand is used as "aa" sound.
Also, egyptian and Indus script are not linked.
@@DesiConflicts Ok, so how did you compare the aa in Egyptian with Indus ma?
Pottery excavated in Keeladi has Tamil words as well as symbols similar to those found in the Indus valley. The way forward is to carry out more archiological excavation in Tamil Nadu. Unfortunately the Indian govt starves Namil nadu of funds, while spending hundreds of millions of $s in the North without achiving much.
Script can be different but language pronunciation relates to Vedic period, when people used to prefer knowledge in words and not as written .
what if those seal things r actually toys made to educate kids? Or coins?
Any opinion as to similarities between Rapa Nui or Rogorongo script and Indus valley script?
Make part two. Loved this one
Harappans, rakhigarhis, oxus, jiroft and elams all were elamite. That means india and iran was a same country. May be thats why both india and iran shared same proto indo iranian linguistic root!!! At least elamite is a break through in harappan case.
Great effort. Waiting for part 2