Norwegian 1846 Postførerverge Knife-Pistol?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
This is one of the more practical knife/pistol combinations I have seen - it actually has a pretty reasonable grip when used in either capacity. It has two muzzleloading smoothbore barrels, with a percussion cap hidden under each top ear of the crossguard and a folding trigger in the body of the grip.
After I had finished filming, it was brought to my attention that while it does not have the proper markings, this piece is very, very similar to an 1846 Postførerverge - a double-barreled blade/gun issued to Norwegian postal employees after a rash of deadly assaults on rural postal workers. Those were made from 1846 until 1854, with a total of 152 being manufactured. Could this be one with the markings worn off or removed? Perhaps. It could also be a commercial copy, or something else entirely.
"Looks like you brought a knife to a gunfight."
"That's what you think brother"
+AussieFanXCIV "You may very well think so, I couln't possibly comment"
JagerLange lol
That's where youre wrong, kiddo
AussieFanXCIV. Who is bing robbed in you situation Hulk Hogan?
Borther
postal workers weapon? amazing.
"I will deliver the mail or die trying!"
The real inspiration for the movie/book The Postman.
Or I will kill to deliver the mail....
Norwegian postal slogan is "the mail will be delivered" roughly, so you are right x)
"Let's go postal!" they said. That would fit nice for them as a slogan.
@@benm5913 Could it have inspired the Postal games as well? Who knows ...
The name translates as "The mailman ward" or more poetic sounding "The Messengers Ward".
Sounds like a cool +2 weapon from D&D.
Mail driver, not mailman.
+2 to on time mail delivery checks
Was literally thinking of how a rogue would be badass with this for half the video
Im norwegain and it directly translates to postal leader guard
@@norwegain_dude1434 not leader, transporter. en som fører post, altså frakter, befordrer.
If only it were a bayonet, so your gun could have guns.
ever heard of under barrel shotguns or grenade launchers?
+kingduckford thank you Xzibit
@@DissedRedEngie now i want one of these as a bayonet, on my masterkey, on my rifle
That would be knife
Yes just yes
It serves a third function: As a letter opener.
The gun barrels are for opening bills
@@VTRAddict duh
Another fourth function to open canned food it you don't have a can opener
Gun or the knife?
And to shot the girlfriend letter, Carl.
They sent armed guards with them. Between 1814 and 1836, there was a series of serious assaults, and the most serious of them in february 1830. Postal worker Jørgen Hammerseng was found bloody and beaten by his sled. A shipment of money to a musketeer corps was taken, a sizable amount. Hammerseng died of his injuries and they cut the head of the alleged assailant. It was after this they started with the escorts and made the weapon. They made this especially for the postal escorts, which history (norwegian history) tells us were many, and tough. The weapon itself, feared. Not a single robbery between 1836 and 1846. The last part might just be Kongsberg wanting good publicity though :D
This is not a m1948 Postførerverge. Though it is very similar and some of the units from Kongsberg are unmarked, the M1946 doesn't have checkering in the handle but oblique grooves, the fullers are shorter and most importantly there are 2 trigger. So there are 2 totally separate cocking mechanisms on each side of the tang. This may be the german weapon that the Postførerverge is modelled after, though. Initially produced for prison wardens, it was deceided that the protection of postmen was more urgent, and so these were issued to the cart drivers. There are also known examples of this weapon in use by law enforcement officers and civillians. It is a very interresting piece. I really enjoy your channel, Ian
NO RESPONSE from the channel so I'll reply for them
Thank you for the information
@@FarmerDingus To be fair, the comment was posted a year after the video went live.
@@Dragoderian Ian outputs such a prolific amount of videos on a continual basis that I'm always surprised to see his comments on anything.
How interesting. It's great when the comments section of a video can me continued education.
@@AtlasJotun yeah, especially doing it with no staff. He must get thousands upon thousands of comments every day.
Look who brought a knife-gun to a knife fight.
Knife
Gun
KNIFE-GUN
Commencing Virtuous Mission
NOW
You fool! You brought a knife-gun to a gun-knife fight
we are very logical here in Norway. our police officers do not carry guns, but our mailmen does xD
Yes. The firearm is kept in the police vehicle, not on the belt.
That's first time I've considered becoming a mailman.
The reason this was made was because in the beginning of the 1800 there was a bunch of pretty brutal postal robberies that's why the mailmen were given one of these to defend themselves with.
true x)
Haha, our police and mailmen carried gun at that time period. And now the mailmen doesn’t carry a gun and neither does our police force, they have their weapons locked away is a gun safe in the trunk of their service car! And never use them unless the supervisor grants them or gives them the order to arm them self.
would love to hear you try to say "postførerverge kniv-pistol"
+Marcus Linden Nope. :)
Haha
+Forgotten Weapons as a norwegian, i think it could only end in hillarity.
love your stuff Ian, and i dont even own or shoot guns!
+Motorsagmannen As a Swede, I can attest to the Norwegian language being hilarious.
:D
But in all fairness, the Norwegians say the same thing about Swedish.
+Mutant1988 As long as we can both agree that it doesn't sound as bad as Danish we're fine!
I suspect that the knife-fighting part would be done *after* both barrels had been emptied.
Always handy to have back-up options.
+Millwater Publishing
Kind of a shoot first, stab later type of deal. I like it.
But then you may aswell carry pistol and knife separately. I think it's really so you can shoot after let's say someone attacked you at melee range but tried to retreat when you had drawn your weapon out, and hold enemy back if you decide to shoot them first but they try to close the distance before you get the chance.
Stick the knife into someone then shoot
Shoot them in the leg then stab them it the neck
@@MrCh0o but then how you gonna carry mail, use your head mate
"They drew their swords and shot each other."
Two deaf policemen heard the noise
They shot each other with the pommels*
'Twas one fine day in the middle of the night
When two dead men got up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other.
Drew their swords
And shot one another.
the like-dislike ratio speaks volumes for how entertaining and informative your videos are.
another great piece of history passing through rock island auctions.
Just gave the video its 1000th like!!
Vikings seeing guns the first time: "Well I guess, but can we just strap it to the sword? We like the swords."
Sword-gun, mightier than the pen-gun...
Very interesting. I'm Norwegian and I've never seen or heard about this piece of history before. Thanks!
postmuseet.no/Postens-historie/Smakebiter-fra-Postens-historie/Postfoererverge
You might say this is a weapon that has been forgotten, a forgotten weapon of sorts
That's like something out of a steampunk painting. Truly a work of art as well as functional.
Ah yes, a pommel, to end your opponent rightly.
"Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well."
That thing just reeks of quality... I'm really impressed with the level of craftsmanship with the sheath alone and the weapon itself...wow
Hence the saying "postman only shoots twice". ;)
; ) lol
Seems like that layout would actually work really well with a modern striker-fired system.
“Was the victim shot or stabbed?”
“Both... at the same time”
Adam Manning in case of Squall Leonhart, shot and slashed many times, at the same time
The blade geometry is so cool, it reminds me of medieval swords. Even the best amazon drone can't defeat that mailman.
Perfect accessory for my Ar-15. Just when they think you've fired your last round, BAM! More rounds coming from the bayonet.
this gun/knife is a perfect example of why I love your channel so much! Keep em comin bud!!!
You know I'm not much of a gun fancier. However, I am absolutely fascinated by your show with the things that you present are just a great part of history that it would be so easy to miss. And you explain it so well and you do it so professionally I'm really impressed. I've seen a lot of your videos and I plan on seeing a lot more.
thank you for the edit the background stories are often as good as the forgotten weapons themselves
Really liking these vids! Well made, lots of info, just great.
Thanks Ian!
Just love the unusual weapons that show up, from time to time. Thanks.
"You fool, You brought a knife to a gunfight mate >:)"
"That's what yous all think! >;)"
*Cue scene of people shooting someone with colt until the protagonist uses that knife pistol and stabs, shoots, cuts the bad guys.*
"Any significant impact to the crossguard, like, say, getting in a knife fight with it, would detonate the percussion cap and fire the barrel." Call this a design flaw, but all I'm hearing is you can stab someone and it will automatically shoot them point-blank for you. Twice.
This is a cool design. I would like to see a modern version of these.
Leave it to the Norwegians to make the most ridiculous yet effective pistol/knife.
+Hr. Direktörn That's what we do... or did it at least :P
and we're proud
Wow, never heard of this. Thank you for teaching me norwegian history i’ve never even heard about!
I'm glad to see you make so many videos on Norwegian firearms. There certainly are a lot of interesting ones made at Kongsberg. I'm still crossing my fingers to see you take a look (And hopefully shoot) a deecent speciment of a Norwegian Krag. The stomperud is a cool gun, but quality wise, it's the ass end of krags. I'm also curious to see what you'd think of the Kammerlader/Chamber loaders. They are really fascinating rifles, that where WAY ahead of their time when they where itroduced. Had the been exported to the US in time for the civil war, they would probably have changed history.
Been following this channel for a while: Pretty cool things, indeed!
The sheath also nicely covers the barrels. It's something small, but nice none the less.
You also basically fire the rounds, and if two rounds doesn't do it for you, you've got a big knife/dagger ready.
Fascinating piece, Ian, thanks for posting. About halfway through the video, I was wondering if it could be carried loaded, and, voila, you answered my question. Cheers!
As someone with a reasonable amount of experience handling bladed weapons I'd say this from the looks of it, this would be highly effective. The barrels add mass close to the grip allowing more momentum when slashing yet maintaining good control and balance, it has a nice meaty blade which increases stiffness for these slash and stab attacks. A small but stout crossguard combined with the side mounted barrel "crossguards" helps protect the hand from another blade. That pommel would be very good with the extra mass above it helping generate much stronger blows. The tip is nicely pointed which would make a stabbing attack effective. The barrels also help prevent over-penetration, a real pain in the arse when facing multiple assailants, no one wants to have to wrench their knife out of one bad guy while the other one takes a swing at them.
I disagree with it being "not quite perfect". This seems really well thought out and produced to me.
It is carried in a sheath or hoster making it far less likely to fall and go off. Also, if you were to have to draw a blade like this back in the days before cell phones, cameras, and 911 the first thing you would do is shoot it, not get in a knife fight with it loaded, either way even if you did fight with it loaded and it went off its still pointing at the attacker. You get a good purchase on it...2 nice sized caliber shots and a large knife...no bells and whistles but everything you want and nothing you dont.
Just don't drop it. Or get bumped in a crowd. Or fall on your side. Or try to get insurance.
19th century Solid Snake would CQC with this like a boss
Commencing virtuous mission, now
I actually saw this kind of knife-pistol in our local museum that our class visited when we were kids. We were quite in awe of this menacing weapon.
Awesome video! I looked a little bit into it and it seems some of them were in fact unmarked.
This gun is actually a pretty smart idea considering the rough terrain some of the postmen had to walk through especially when you get to the fjords where some farms are at the edge of a cliff to avoid the tax man.
The name does mean Postmans guard which is pretty cool as well
Is anyone else getting lots of kids educational videos in the recommendations for this video?
+Adoring Fan It's because this video is categorized as 'educational' and until the algorithm has time to look through whoever watches this video also sees to recommend things as such, they just pull random educational videos to fill the blank
+Adoring Fan THE BUS IS RED
+Sen Kanashimi But this seems to be from like yesterday.At least I don't remeber any recommendations like this from ...4 days ago let's say.And there are only 5 videos of them.
Gurundyo Munyov
Because these are placeholder based on the content of the video, after a period of time that can be as short as a couple of hours, the recommendations are personalized and made more relevant, again, once the algorithm has time to look through your subscriptions, history, what else people are watching, ect. and can apply proper recommendations to you
+Sen Kanashimi Well,at least if there are young parents out here,it could be helpful I guess.
"Went postal", before it was cool
you deflect with the top crossguard and subsequently shoot the guy with the impact setting a barrel off.
Yordan Andrea Yes but it was said how an impact on the guard would just fire the gun prematurely. (The only engineering flaw/possible benefit)
The only channel that I can hit the like button before watching the video!
Pretty dam awesome! The blade looks very nice!
It's not alot of Norwgian weapons so it whas really cool to see you have a video of it as a Norwgian i really enjoy'd it!!
This type of gun was pretty popular in South America. I ran across a good number of them in Brazil and Argentina. The oddest was a knife and fork set with flintlock barrels. I have taken pictures of all these guns. I could send them to you if you are interested.
+RobertoDonatti I would really like to see that knife and fork flintlock set. That sounds amazing.
I can send you the picture I took. Just let me know the address.
RobertoDonatti
Just upload it to a image host and link it here. Links are permitted and I do think that Ian too would get a kick out of seeing those gun-utensils.
postimg.org/image/7f12ukv2d/
s21.postimg.org/vbws4j8t3/712.jpg
This is a second set, I had forgotten there were two sets. I also uploaded some pictures I took of a dagger/pistol
"So what can I get you? A knife? A gun?"
"Yes"
I think can confirm the postman story, found a Norwegian discription of this, and it seems legit. Im a dane so I can read Norweagian. Here is the link
kvf.no/vaapen.php?type=Pistol&weaponid=PIST0016
There is some good pictures of the internals as well.
+stefan grubbe Sorry Ian if you dont wan't links to external websidses on your channel, if so Ill delete my comment.
+stefan grubbe Not at all - I encourage additional informative links!
+Forgotten Weapons Ok glad to help then, if you ever need any help with translating or finding anything written in Swedish, Danish or Norwegian just drop me a line, and I will be happy to help if i can. And I would like to take this chance to thank you for all the awesome content, Ive been a sub for four or five years, and your channel is the best firearm channel out there. Cheers!
+Forgotten Weapons I read the translation of the above link and it was based on a German design. Did a search online of German knife pistol and found many countries had the design. There were French ones and interestingly Sweden had one for prison gaurds.
+stefan grubbe Was about to share the same link. For reference re: just who carried the guns, the site says that they were carried by guards accompanying the man driving the carriage.
Always enjoy Ian's videos. Nifty self defense weapon.
When I was a kid I used to spend time in the Kelvingrove Museum in Glasgow looking at their Arms and Armour collection. One of the best in the world, it features mainly (99%) pre-firearm era weapons. They had a combination weapon similar to this used by the Revenue and Customs officers, 1850's or so.
A single shot large bore black powder pistol with a knife blade that swung up from under the barrel. The pistol had a large awkward looking grip which colcealed a reasonably sized hatchet blade. A 3 in 1 combo.
Imagine your frst day at work and getting handed one of those, "Here, you'll need this"
imagine being a robber, taking a slice with your sword and it going down the back of the guy's knife, thinking you can maybe thrust once the blade is against his cross guard and then having your sword bounce off to the side followed by a loud as fuck boom and a bullet going through your shoulder or chest. fucking terrifying. brilliant.
Superb piece
FFR: Regarding the scabbard. The top metal piece is called a mouthpiece or locket. And the tip metal piece is called a ferrule or chape (typically you would refer to them as either mouthpiece and ferrule or locket and chape). The wire pieces are typically called double hooks. They are very good for securing a scabbard to a belt. You would have the scabbard itself tucked under the belt and the double hooks over the belt (so the belt would have something an under, over, under feed). It's not as easily adjustable as a belt loop is. But can be deliberately removed without taking off a belt.
This looks great for home defense
+Khanon it's still more lethal than anything we're allowed in the uk 😂
@Khanon Still better then the people with an AR-15, all them tacticool accessories, I mean they got that shit for a reason, and when style is put above substance...the postman pat knife will probably be more effective in fending off a home invasion, fuck if nothing else the noise and smoke and "oh fuck that knive just fired a bullet the size of my left testie" might prove more useful
To quote Ruby Rose: "Its also a gun"
Would be cool for Skallagrim to look at one of these
No it wouldn't, the pommel cannot be taken off to rightly end one's opponent
this is a further advancement in ending him rightly
it shoots tiny pommels
Been so cool to see it in action
Very interesting firearm! As a Scaninavian, I understand why you didn't try to pronounce "Postførerverge"... you would need to make some very weird sounds :)
Nice! That makes perfect sense. I've heard the stories about the 1800's mailmen in Norway got strapped :-)
Great addition to the info...
This piece is the skinny.. Fantastic production numbers & story..
love your work!
Reminds me of one I saw that was a club and a gun and another that was an axe, the haft of both being the gun barrel which made them pretty effective as both weapons.
It looks like whoever came with these really knew what they were doing. They actually came up with something that's practical as both a knife and a self defense firearm.
That is very cool!
I did not know about this. Looks like i have some reading up to do.
Note that other examples of Postførerverge (at least, those easily seen on the internet) have two triggers, and a bullet fuller(?) which extends only about 1/2 the length of the blade.
If you're in Norway and want to take a look at one of these in person. There's one located at the postal museum in Lillehammer
Imagine if an opponents sword/knife hitting the crossguard actually cocked the hammers for you
Unlikely as when fighting with blades you try to keep the opponents blade on the opposite side to you. Since these hammers are on the rear they would very rarely make contact with an enemy blade and most situations where a sword, saber or knife cocks them would also leave a nasty gash on the users arm.
@@achristy446 #worthit; they cocked it for you, so now you may aim and shoot them. their head for a flesh wound, as it were
A direct transelation of the name would be "mail/postman guardian"
Honestly thats not half bad, and not as hair-brained as it seems either as im sure there were many more knife fights than there were gun fights in those days.
I like how the barrels fit into the blades blood groove.
why did i not learn this in school? this is soo cool
having something like this would have made me a proud postal worker something like this is definitely a treat for a mostly swords and knives guy like me. cheers
The gunsmith that make all those knife/pistols made one for him self.
I have seen an origional weapon .. the same model infact and it has two shims that sit around the precussion cap 'teat' that fall out when the hamer is pulled back for use...
Considering that this was introduced in 1846, it's not inconcieveable that it was brought over by one of the many Norwegians who emigrated to the US in that period.
We had something of a mass exodus in the latter half of the 1800's, with 800000 people emigrating from the country, which amounted to about a third of the Norwegian population at the time.
I am a Norwegian and found this interesting. I have read about this weapon and remember seeing some in museums, but never found anything about how it works.
This seems thoroughly impractical and thoroughly awesome.
Another top vid, Thanks Ian..
at 5:24 I read that as "Postalrevenge" 😂
That action is fascinating! I wonder if there are any double-barreled shotguns with that action. I love its simplicity.
I know that many single-trigger coach and O/U shotguns either have a selector or a mechanism that automatically switches between barrels upon firing. For the latter, they're mostly recoil-based. But this gun/knife's mechanism sounds like a great way- perhaps better than a recoil-based switching mechanism- to operate a two-barrel shotgun.
Came to Johnathan Ferguson from Ian and Forgotten Weapons, now I come back to a FW video I had not seen because of JF and the Royal Armories :)
The ghostly voice of Ian future was bit of a shock. Good find
I agree with Havar, this looks more like the german predecessor to the Postførerverge. The real deal has a slightly different hilt. Instead of checkering, it has diagonal grooves and only two rivets, one at each end of the handle scales. It also had a lanyard ring on the pommel, and the fittings for the sheath were made from brass.
As someone who has worked for the norwegian postal service i can confirm that those are still being issued.
Awesome stuff like almost every video you made! Thx, Ian!
4:19 - Granted, if you're in a knife fight with this thing and it goes off due to impact, that's probably going to be while it's pointed in the general direction of your opponent, so...
Wooooow that's so cool.😎love how hidden it all is.
A gun-knife? Monty Oum would be so proud!
It is so cool. Reproductions would sell like hot cakes.
+Norse Ranter Haha, that would turn a 45-70 Derringer into a gun for wimps!
Awesome video after I recall I have seen a copy of these from Belgium or was it Germany only with a brass handle. This is one is with little doubt the Norwegian postførerverge.
I guess the maker figured in a knife fight it the hammers would only be dangerous to the person you were fighting! Lol great video and review!
So I know I'm a little late to the party but while talking about how it would be difficult to carry loaded because there is no half cock or safety mechanism, I couldn't help to think could the wielder preload the barrels and carry percussion caps and when they are ready to use it simply put them on then?
Does the sheath effectively shield the hammers from accidental discharge i.e. is it rigid enough?
Dat Gunblade tho. Squall would dig it.
Love these
First real "gunblade" I have seen.