Multiple Speedrunners Caught Cheating In Trackmania!
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Get your Displate for 25% off for the first 3 days and then 15% off (discount automatically applied at checkout): displate.com/?art=5fd15d5fdf43c
Many cheaters have recently been caught in the world of Trackmania. In today's video we learn how they were exposed, and why everything is happening right now.
Trackmania competition rules and download link: docs.google.com/document/d/1e...
Big thanks to Donadigo, Wirtual, Cephyric, Rollin, Racehans, Dubby and Strawbear for helping me learn the game.
Support the channel on Patreon - / karljobst
Absolute Legend MERCH - streamlabs.com/karljobst/merch
Please follow me on the these platforms, it really helps!
Twitter: / karljobstgaming
Twitch: / karljobst
Discord: / discord
Music:
Pause music - GTA V
Secret of the forest acoustic - • Chrono Trigger - Secre...
Galaxy map - Mass Effect
Lost Ship - FTL - Hry
TRACKMANIA COMPETITION! If you can beat my time for the first level (A01) of Trackmania Nations Forever, you get the chance to win a steam voucher ($100). Winners announced in future video. Rules and FREE DOWNLOAD for the game here: docs.google.com/document/d/1eDepiNn4OoB2Ni2TYsRQemAjVndJvY6R1U67vg8l9Q8/edit?usp=sharing
I dont have a pc
We cant Beat the Legend himself.
Wtf 24.02 you are actually cracked
Im not a speedrunner so that aint gonna happen
@@bri.619 265Text you copy will automatically show hereSlide clips to delete themPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourSlide clips to delete themSlide clips to delete themPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hourPin copied text snippets to stop them expiring after 1 hour
"he cheated in over hundreds, if not thousands, over a period of ten years. I've never heard of an instance that extreme" - Karl
"This kid is going places" - Todd Togers
lol
lmfaoo best comment I've seen on Jobst vid a while, beautiful :')
Not to confuse with the totally legit world record holder, Rodd Togers of course.
Todd Togers and The King of Con would like a word with you
This made my day better, thank you.
Be patient for Riolu's confession, he's writing in slowmo
savage xD
He accidentally set the real world to 0.1x speed right before he started writing
@@snakely MegaLUL
PFFT I LOVE THIS
Award for best comment
Karl: “To me it looks like gibberish, but to a competent programmer, it unlocks the hidden secrets of a ghost file”
Me, a programmer who also thinks it looks like gibberish: “I don’t like these personal attacks”
It looks like it's someone's notes on the structure of a binary file format.
Not 'any competent programmer' just 'a competent programmer' so long as at least one of us has it.
It made sense when you knew what to look for. I would say you also had to be well versed in Trackmania to know the significance beforehand.
He said competent programmer.
/s
I guess it was the [nameInputSomething] that stored the input, seems like a tab in Java
The best part though, after trabadia confessed to cheating his A01 record (and more), Rollin decided to start grinding A01 and actually tied trabadia's old "record" of 23.83, completely legit. Absolute madman.
That’s amazing!
@@Ravenesque Yeah i watched it earlier
Rollin beat the cheaters fair and square. This is why Trackmania has one of the best speedrunning communities ever
@@Ravenesque by now its a 23.80 by i belive drarker but im not sure about that
Yeah, after the record was opened up another speedrunner found that if you had a great start, you could barely powerslide on the turn after the downhill. That extra speed boost really opened things up again.
Calling it first; Karl Jobst will get WR on A01 in 2024
boy
hi!
pog
HI
I knew Wirtual before he was cool!
I can’t imagine how Donadigo must have felt during all this.
One moment you find an isolated cheating incident and the next you have to make sure you can trust the people around you
Just try to imagine how paranoid he must have been after discovering techno and riolu were both cheating
Yeah I can’t imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno’s runs
Yeah I can’t imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno’s runs
Yeah I can't imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno's runs
Yeah I can’t imagine copy-pasting someone else's reply
Yeah I can't imagine copy-pasting someone else's reply.
Wirtual:
"oh wow
that's fucked"
got me real good
That do be the Wirtual energy 🤣 he’s just your friendly neighborhood Trackmania speedrunner/ speedrun history explainer CZcams channel…
Massive props to Donadigo and Wirtual. Creating a tool that automatically scans for illegitimate replays is the definition of smart and dedicated.
It’s basically like modern doping detection that still uncovers juiced athletes from 30 years ago on top of the current ones.
@@magicmulder ya it's awesome
@@magicmulder *on cemetery
*points at a tombstone
"Yeah, that guy was on steroids."
@@enderan647
I should not have laughed at this omfg..
No props because they cheated in the first place. Years spent cheating is not absolved because they realized they were fucked and came out early for sympathy.
Remember to watch the video in 0.5 speed so you can get that riolu POV
Underrated comment
@I watched this well I did kinda change it up, but yea, it was of course inspired by all the other comments
666 Likes lol
@@garlicwaffle6146 .25
The real legends are the developers who implemented input recording straight into the game because they knew people would try to cheat their times. Should practically be a standard practice at this point for video games.
Yet they didn't look into it for 10 years. In the latest game the inputs are encrypted before storing them into the replay files. Therefore we cannot use the same method to look for cheated runs. Ubisoft Nadeo will need to do it for us.
Edit: At least for the slomo-aspect. The physics validation feature is dope!
@@andretaulien398 Nadeo didnt moderate the times themselves only up the newest TM2020.
@@andretaulien398 TM 2020 does have an actual anti-cheat system, unlike Forever.
Not all games would benefit from it. But yeah, they did a great job here.
To be fair, TM is a game actually dedicated to speed running, it’s the actual point of the game. Their replay files are generally only kilobytes in size so it’s great for uploading speed runs as opposed to getting recording software and equipment then uploading videos
Imagine how many legit speedrunners were driven off by this, thinking they just couldn't cut it.
Imagine how many are going to come back upon seeing this video. We've got a new wave of speedrunners coming.
@@MrGreenYeti I've been playing non stop since this video dropped. So far my best A01 is 24.26
What makes Riolu an illegitimate speed runner. Trackmania accepted his records based on their own parameters. Online gaming will never be a level playing field.
@@TheMeefive It's called exploiting a loophole, not 'abiding by Nadeo's parameters.' If it really doesn't occur to to you that cheating makes you illegitimate, than may I suggest finding a new piece of shit speedrunner to simp over.
@@davidpowers746
Buying a monitor wit a superfast refresh ate is exploiting a loophole. Having a fast internet is exploiting a loophole. All these things give you an advantage over the average person. Online gaming has never been a level playing field because the best equipment will always give someone an advantage. Cussing up a blue streak won't change that fact.
Drama channels: "So there's this long thing I didn't even read, and here's the comment I copied from another channel because I probably sound correct this way."
Karl: "So to better understand what's going on I've spend days grinding this track in a game I previously had no interest in because I want to be informed on the matter."
Karl joining the TrackMania train 16 years late, but it's never too late to start
Lol
This video is the first time i've ever heard of this game
:D
@@jamespilcher5287 guess you arent european game is one of the most popular here
@@justawarlord i suppose that brexit means i'm no longer european
It's funny that Riolu immediately pulled the witchhunt card on Wirtual, Wirtual has featured many of Riolu's records on his channel and given him praise more times than I can count. Wirtual isn't the type to start a witchhunt and the community knows it.
@@mdbk2 I disagree. Most people (at least on the TM subreddit) urged others to wait with their conclusions until the other side (Donadigo and Wirtual) presents their side of the story.
@@Paraverso The opposite happened on Twitter. Everyone there dogpiled on Wirtual, saying how much of an asshole he was. Basically Twitter being Twitter.
@@Paraverso Not really, they just edited their comments after the report came out to preserve their precious karma-points.
@@davidci
Everyone? Nah. Not even the majority. Just a vocal few.
Playing the witch-hunt card is so cringe. He must watch a lot of Fox News.
Personally, this feels like the worst case of cheating in a modern game I've seen on this channel. Trackmania's only objective is to go fast, this isn't just a speedrunner thing... everyone is racing to be 1st. For it to go on for so long and someone to build such a career and make what I can only assume is a lot of fucking money out of it is messed up. As I understand, Riolu has been streaming and effectively made his career this game for ages. To have the whole thing cheated is messed up. He stole money from legitimate fans who donated to him thinking he earned his acomplishments.
He is still top 10 players world in term of skill without cheating
He didn't cheat in competitions. If he only cheated and wasn't actually good, he would've been shut down from the start.
@@gaiekkurvanov1841 Name a cheater who wasn't good? Dream is good, still cheated. This guy though made it his entire career, this one game. Made his fortune from it. And his fame against those other 9 top players... is mostly because of his WRs.
@@defiante1 there thousands of cheaters you just don't notice them cause we are not talking about it when they are not famous
@@gaiekkurvanov1841 Sure. However cheating scandals? About famous players? Nearly all of them were good. Him being good at the game doesn't excuse his cheating for WRs and using it to bolster his fame and draw money from. Nearly ever major scandal on his channel covers a well respected gamer who was top tier, who began cheating. They were all wrong. However most of them were in the niche speedrunning community, Trackmania is all speed.
Imagine pursuing a world record that is humanly impossible to achieve. It must feel like shit. I can already feel betrayed, and I haven't touched Trackmania in the last 10+ years.
Well... Watch Wirtual's vid on it. It does end on a high note.
Imagine pursuing a world record that's humanly impossible to achieve... and beating it, as the camera pans to show one of riolu's cheated records beat legit.
Teeechnically, all TAS runs in TM are humanly possible they just have absurdly low chance to occur even to the best players. As one wise person once said, good players cheat to save time.
Makes me mad just thinking about all the legit players and streamers out there that never get anywhere despite putting down a ton of effort into it. We have to assume all the best are cheating in all games (not just speedrunning) that involves a lot of money from now on since this seem to be so widespread.
@@urstupidm8 Technically everybody can win the lottery as well, but it's not at all a guarantee that anyone will win it during their lifetime, so quite a bad excuse to use. And in this case I highly doubt a human can perform like this.
@@urstupidm8 tas that is humanly possible, as an f zero gx enjoyer i find that laughable
lol I thought you were gonna be like "Suddenly, while I was playing offline, I got a perfect record!"
Would have been perfect :DDD
Mad respect for actually playing (and even grinding !) Trackmania yourself to better understand the situation. That is next level dedication.
It's also a really good time he did there.
I did the same with gay porn. It wasn't worth it
@@Blernster r/cursedcomments
no, that's actual journalism for you
@@TheBinaryHappiness then Jobst is a game journalist?
Who knew the TM in rioluTM stood for temporal manipulation this whole time!
And riolu is my favorite baby pokemon >:(
The whole point of the game is to manipulate the code to set the best time. If Riolu found the best way to do it, good on him.
@@haka-katyt7439 yeah but it’s evolution is a furry.
@@TheMeefive That's not the point of the game, you'd be an idiot to think so
@@enotsnavdier6867 I guess you think the point of the game is to use software to count how many times another gamer presses his controller.
The point of every video game is to manipulate code.
TrackMania actually having what it had to test replays is impressive. I get it was beaten but I can't think of a game that went this out of the way to make sure runs are legit.
16:44 In Wirtuals voice: "And when all hope seemed lost, Karl Jobst got this run..."
*sax starts hitting those godly notes*
@@soregiviktor8980 definitely should have played the sax
I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that was a reference to Wirtual
I can imagine Wirtuals voice so well :D
Actually laughed out loud which doesn't happen much. Nice.
They didn't cheat, they just shifted into 2nd before the race started
I mean, you can clearly see some bendy rear wings in these replays
@@iy42 R/woooosh
@@iy42 For folks who don't know, this is a joke about Todd Rogers cheating in a game called Dragster. Karl Jobst has a video on it called "The longest con in video game history."
@@mem3b0i_ Yeesh, I apologize for trying to drag F1 into this, I have nothing new to add to the overdone Togers stuff.
@@mem3b0i_ you don’t get it lmao
I know almost 0 about speedrunning but your videos make it easy to understand and I can tell the respect you have for this community is huge. More people like you are needed in the world
The little speedrun contests you run to have people try and beat your personal times in a new run are such a fantastic way to encourage people to get interested in speedruns in such a positive way. So good to see.
I love how Karl basically did a "And then this happened..." with his PB.
totally wirtual way
Man pulled a summoningsalt xD
@@justarandomdood totally ;D
i'm pretty sure he did that ACCIDENTALLY
He pulled a Wirtual
I feel bad for Wirtual, imagine your friend liying about you that way
Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.
Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.
Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.
Why tf are replies same
Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.
"Player: Phillip Amthor" that got me haha
You are extremely good at putting videos together. The narrativ always explains things well, so that even I - who know very little about speedruning - can understand the mechanics behind a game, and how those mechanics are misused. It's informative and interesting, not boring or dull.
The clips you use are relevant and accompanies the narrative very well.
I really think that you can make a carrier out of this talent. I mean, you could make a video on how paint dryes, and I'd still watch and be interested.
Keep up the great work YOU ABSOLUT LEGEND!
Greetings from Denmark. 🇩🇰 😊
Thank you
Karl: and then he was caught cheating
Me, not knowing the game or the runner: NO WAY.
same
Riolu is basically like technoblade in mc, or MrSavage in fortnite. One of the most famous players, established for a long time, etc.
@@littlemisseevee2309 and one of the best in the world
@@simonuser wdym, skywars players have known for years that Technoblade cheats
@@joshuazhong2520 ???? I don’t understand your comment
This was probably the best way I've seen a "cheaters exposed" type video be presented. I've seen a lot for Karl and it looks like he really takes this seriously and is constantly improving how he approaches these issues. He makes sure to lay down the facts, doesn't over hype things but keeps it real, then moves directly into attempts to positively grow the community with a simple wholesome challenge. Keep up the great work. This is awesome.
As a programmer and cheater his explanations were spot on. Great work indeed.
@@JohnSmith-ox3gy hol' up
Agreed. This was a really enjoyable video. Very well explained.
@@Slimmeyy
xD his comment made me laugh for a long time
Keep in mind these are videos about people playing video games quickly.
The funniest shit is that youtube thought this was rocket league lmao
'one of the most competitive racing games'
Wirtual: 'The MOST competitive racing game
Actually, has any other racing game has been this active for this long? this game is at least 13 years old
Technically 18 years old if you count the previous game who some content was taken from
It's also a very good game for speedrunning, it's very objective design wise, just accelerate, brake and turn
@@rompevuevitos222 you didn't get the joke
@@rompevuevitos222 NASCAR Racing 2003, Re-Volt, Mario Kart 64.. they most certainly exist, though certainly not with TrackMania's popularity.
@@Derpy-qg9hn Mario kart 64 only keeps receiving attention because of speedruns and has been outclassed by newer games of the series that are straight upgrades or just Crash Nitro Kart which did it better
Never heard of any significant amount of people still playing NASCAR 2003 but what do i know
I also never heard of Re-volt so not gonna talk about it
Trackmania still has a lot of servers tho
Some of the greatest people in the speedrunning community, or in gaming communities in general, are those who spend the time creating stuff on the backend for everyone's benefit. Spending countless hours out of passion and for the benefit of other's is truly awe-inspiring. Rarely do they get the spotlight, but their work is often so crucial and impactful. Props to Donadigo.
totally agreed
Yep!
True
So true
my man Matto
The cheaters were just going in circles, it was only a race against time.
I don't know if I groan and jokingly tell you to go sit in a corner or to applaud you for this. Lol
Lmao 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 nice.
Take my like and leave
@@Marceline_PokeXenoblade flip a coin
@@Marceline_PokeXenoblade applaud as they sit in the corner
It's hilarious how the youtube algorithm thinks this is Rocket League
I heard "hundreds, maybe thousands" and my jaw dropped. I've heard of dozens of old record-breaking runs being found to be spliced, but something this drastic is absolutely insane.
Dozens of cheated runs are bad, hundreds of them are concerning, but thousands are absolutely disgusting.
@@flickcentergaming680 look, I can get if someone cheats like, once on accident or on purpose out of frustration. I can get angry at someone who did this dozens of times but decide they don't gotta be condemned to hell for it. banned, maybe but not condemned. BUT THOUSANDS OF FUCKING RUNS??? DUDE. GO TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO. I CANNOT UNDERSTAND. absolutely fucking bonkers
14:31 I can respect those first two coming forward, admitting it without excuses even before they were officially caught. I wish that happened more often instead of the obfuscation, twitter mobs, and denial followed by a non-apology when the evidence is too much.
Ah yes, the Dream method
That’s literally just a method to save some face. Cause they know they’re gonna get caught :/
@@victorcardenas8198 The point is that it is the best method when you know you're gonna get caught. Unlike the riolu method.
The best method for them. It is the last resort to be forgiven. They are getting busted either ways. I'd honestly rather they stuck to their Guns so they are completely ostricized, because if they weren't given a heads up that they were screwed, they would have never stepped forth. They cheated and would continue to cheat if they weren't about to get caught red handed. This is done out of self interest and nothing else and they deserve No redemption for it
@@rojibeans5816 There is nothing that is not done out of self interest.
"This is naught but a witch hunt!" spat the Witch, as they threw another eye of newt into their cauldron.
LMFAO
I don't mean to condemn gender-neutral pronouns but seeing a witch being referred to as "they" is fascinating (not so long ago it certainly would've been "she). Maybe soon enough we'll all just use "they" for everyone, that'd get rid of a lot of controversy.
@@ryos.5974 Because all witches are female
@@ryos.5974 this is and sounds so fucking stupid, if u speak a language that has noun genders (german)
@@ryos.5974 The fun thing is that witch used to be gender neutral as well. Nowadays you might hear witch (female) and warlock (male), but warlock was a word adopted from Scots.
I think it speaks volumes that only riolu, who never confessed to his cheating, vanished completely the day Wirtual's video released. His online presence just stopped existing without any explanation on his twitch or twitter. His last few tweets even comment about collabs and how that year still held so much more to come. All of that just non-existent from one day to the other sicne then.
People, don't cheat. Or if you do, don't pass it off as legit. This can ruin your career, and I have yet to find out what happened to riolu since that day.
I think the guy couldn't muster up the courage to face the music and maybe try to rebuild something or start over or at least confess to what's obvious and apologize to his fans and to his fellow players, he prefered to just vanish off the face of the earth instead of dealing with consequences of his own actions. Just shows what sort of character we're dealing with. Cheating in life the same way he was cheating in the game.
I don’t find the behavior shocking at all. Quite fitting, actually. A slimely cheater isn’t going to have the maturity and backbone to admit fault. He’d just crawl away like a pussy. Which is what he did. Seems on par behavior.
man this game was crazy back in the day. millions of active players, these huge servers with up to 280 players or so. good times.
It's even more popular now
See, they should have sped up the gameplay, and get good at that, so when they go back to normal gameplay, its like playing at half speed
5Head
The Matrix technique
Galaxy brain
I saw the APM input graph of a cheater and it's pretty obvious they are already maxing out their ability to perform inputs at normal speed. Their inputs look like they are squished when the game is run at half speed.
Are you playing in 20021?
Lmao the transition from "polished and family friendly voice-over Karl" to "two swears per second stream Karl" was so jarring it made me laugh so much
It was so strange to hear him just start swearing like that. I know voiceover-style videos tend not to really reflect the personality of the person doing it, but it was still so jarring to hear that, lol.
I like how his accent also came out more. It was jarring but fun to see an excited Karl.
He's an Aussie, of course he swears his head off. I'm amazed he managed not to launch any C-bombs during the stream :D
@@SSM24_ they don't have the same strength of meaning in Australia. The worst thing about censorship is
At least they weren't rapidly confessing to having groomed minors like the smash community
Trackmania and Smash: two communities taken down by horrible people.
@Antonio Trivelloni a lot of people for example zero got exposed around the same time
A very funny thing about this whole situation is that it exposed a ton of new people to Trackmania and grew the playerbase. It sucks that so many people were cheating for so long, but at the end of the day those runs have been removed, better anticheat methods were implemented, and more people are playing the game. All in all I'd say this has been a good thing.
Karl: talking about some serious topic
Me, watching the gameplays: holy shit that game looks dope af
and its free samu :)
And the new one is way way way better than tmnf (imo)
@@sirdamian7766 Doesn't the new one have most of the content gated behind a subscription tho?
Or am I tripping?
It looks very good considering it is from 2008 with practically no updates.
@@Sorrelhas it does have quite a lot of features for subscriptions. It’s still some fun without though (assuming your computer can run it lol)
What gets to me is that one particular player was asked to submit runs to be officially included in the game as achievements to beat, and HE SUBMITTED CHEATED RUNS. That just hurts to think about.
A true dick move.
What an asshat. This reminds me of some games I’ve played where some achievements or gameplay wasn’t play tested very well and it ended up being unnecessarily difficult or tricky. But an cheated run would have been nearly impossible for a human to do normally, kinda like Todd Rodger’s Dragster record.
I LOVE the Mass Effect music when you started talking about the coding for the game. Leitmotif!
Have to say Karl, you have recently become one of my favourite CZcamsrs as of late. I find myself watching videos of yours about topics that I would otherwise have absolutely no interest in at all and am completely absorbed, awesome job dude
Donadigo's work is really incredible. This as actually made me more interested in the behind the scenes members of the speedrunning community. I would actually love to see Karl do a video (or more) talking about these people and what they've done, not to directly lower times themselves or anything, but to analyze things like cheat detection or possible in-depth time saves. People that, while not runners themselves, have assisted in communities taking (sometimes even massive) time off records.
I agree, would love to see. Glitch hunters as well, imagine where speedrunning would be without the people that find these tricks and exploits in the first place
You should watch Summoning Salt's videos when he covers a World Record's history he covers everything, the major found, the people who found them, the player who beat record....etc.... His video are really informative and shows how much people and works can go into a single category of game.
@@nesoukkefka1741 I agree, yeah. I should clarify though that I am a speedrunner, I already know a lot of the stories, I'd just like to see them told more
@@nesoukkefka1741 I've watched every Summoning Salt video and they are great. I'm just referring to specific people who are huge to certain speedrunning game communities but never run games themselves, such as Donadigo here. People who put their expertise to work, not by pushing the times lower but helping others realize where they could push the times lower.
Check the channel "ThaRixer". He's got good videos allmg that line. One in particular is a video titled "The man who broke spyro in half"
Wow... Riolu.... That's truly nuts. It was literally watching people like him and realizing I'd never reach their level of perfection that made me quit the game, and their levels of perfection weren't even possible. Reinstalling. Absolutely outraged.
Same story in all competitive games that involves money sadly. I don't watch any "pro" gamers anymore for this reason, and I have stopped watching sports as well part from team sports which probably has a lot of PED use as well but at least there are more important factors involved.
He may be a good player but he is certainly not a good person
This is why just deleting the records doenst repair all the damage. Riolu, screw you
What do you mean that their levels of perfection weren't possible? Obviously they were possible using the methods these guys used to get them Where in theoriginal game play rules was using a device that gives you an advantage listed as cheating? Is a guy ho uses a moniter with a 0.01 refresh rate cheating people who have a tv with a 30 second refresh rate? No, they just have better equipment.
@@TheMeefive In the game its okey maybe. But in a speed running community it is cheating. Also by your argument wall hacks, aimbots and other cheating tools are allowed. Or athletes can freely drug themselves up for better performance. If its only new equipment.
the comments on rioulus last video are hilarious tho "There are rappers like 50 Cent and then there is you, 40 PerCent."
To give this video a more positive note. Wirtual recently released a video of the trackmania community cleaning up after the cheaters. This means the community has been grinding to tie/beat all the cheated records, and i believe they even managed to smash trabadias 23:83 with a new strat getting a 23:81*(not too sure of the exact time, but im pretty sure they beat the 23:83)
As well as many more of the cheated records
Imagine grinding for literally months of your life only to find out the record you were gunning for was essentially a TAS all along.
I wouldn't call it a TAS even though it's technically correct. Just speedhack (TAS was mentioned because Donadigo ended up finding out the method to investigate the cheating in his process of creating a TAS tool)
@@BigDBrian Slow motion is a form of TAS. For example, in Minecraft, all TAS are slow motion
@@BigDBrian Tool assisted speedrunning can be done in many ways. slow motion, frame step and input crafting are some of the most common tools, but there are also things like macroing and variable tracing that can be used to create TAS videos too.
@@kaelanm-s3919 they know, they even admitted it “technically is”, just that while it matches with the definition it’s not really what people typically mean when they say TAS. It’s true, but calling it that would give most people the wrong idea if not explained
@@snowfloofcathug I disagree with the assertion that TAS *must* be the whole shebang of slow motion savestates and memory hacking and rerecords and the works. Even the earliest TASes on TASVideos were done with primitive tools, and if its there its a TAS.
"With reports claiming he had cheated in literally hundreds, maybe even thousands, or records over a period of ten years. I've never heard of an instance that extreme."
Let me guess, once the timer reaches zero, he pops the clutch and he's already in second gear and also in the red but he has to watch out for blowing up his engines.
Todd Todgers? Is that you?
The funny thing is gears are actually super super important in trackmania too, starting from second on A01 could literally save a good few hundreths lol
Todgers and Bitchell are like riolu, deny deny deny even when they've been caught beyond a reasonable doubt.
I like how Trabadia calls out a cheater at 11:00 but later has to admit he did the exact same himself on A01.
takes one to know one
Loved every bit of this video. Was excited to see another one so soon.. great content you absolute legend!!
Something else important to note is that the company that made the game, Nadeo, contacted Riolu to record runs during the beta development of TrackMania Turbo. The recorded runs were used as the basis for the official "Trackmaster" times in that game and it is highly likely a large majority of those runs were cheated as well! Just a messed up situation all around. :/
Yeah, hearing that really deflated my motivation to go for those medals in that game.
@@logarhythmic6859 they might be lying
I'm surprised Todd Rogers didn't submit a run 5.51 on A01
*Togers
I like how Karl Jobst try to understand the game he talks about it's refreshing compared to other people that talk about this type of stuff
You know what really confuses me to the core? How is a person so proud of themselves for not achieving anything? I understand quiet cheaters who don't flaunt it, but people who are actually proud of doing nothing...I don't get it.
The thing is, these people are actually pretty good at the game, there is a high chance they can o what they did legitimately. They cheated because they can't be bothered to learn and try to do it.
In a sense they're speedrunning the records.
They take pride in fooling others. They like to think they're the smartest person in the room getting one over on everyone else. That's the real win for a cheater.
Or they actually believe the lies themselves.
Cheaters caught
Me, not knowing a damn thing about the game: No way
understandable have a nice day
@@raddysurrname7944 thank you very much
Trackmania is essentially the most pure racing game out there, there's zero RNG elements or ways for competing players to screw each other.
@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN Eh I wouldn't say most pure racing game, there's way more competitive racing games out there. However difficulty and cost of entry is just so much higher with many other racing games out there.
Only Karl can take 20min out of my life on a game I've never even heard of.
How can you not have heard about this game
Agreed. What a legend
How can you not have heard about this game
Eh, i say, Ross Scott is pretty good at that too.
Right? I've never heard of this game, but apparently I've been living under a rock.
always interesting to see these community dynamics. great work on how they analysed these inputs, and found out who slowed down the game.
i wonder if there are ways to detect other cheating methods, like virtual controllers/inputs. p.e. comparing multiple runs, if they have segments with equal values or so.
As always, super informative, well spoken, and nice job on the run dude!
It was smart of them to release a patch where the game is essentially cheat proof now, so many cheaters out there that ruin it for other speedrunners
looks like the patch is still flawed since someone made a software to modify the replay and make it look valid. A game can never be 100% cheat proof. People will always try to find things to exploit. But Donadigo is working on making it even better now.
@@Ankanogradiel It's an arms race between cheaters and devs
Generic comment
@@sasdagreat8052 True. But hopefully in games the evidence never disappears. I believe that most cheaters will be dealt with, especially the ones on the top.
@@sasdagreat8052 The cheaters will always win unfortunately because they can develop new techniques and if they are quiet about it keep it secret. The devs always need to be hyper-vigilant compared to the cheaters who just need to find a flaw and exploit it and there is little financial incentive for devs to constantly update something like TNF; after-all it's a 100% free game that is nearly 14 years old.
.98 is actually insane for someone who has little prior experience with the game. I have 2500 hours across the games and my best is .08.
my pb should be .11 iirc lol
Wirtual's PB right now on A01 is 23.98. He's held multiple WRs in the game on other tracks. Unreal time, especially for only 1 week of grinding.
@@justrecentlyi5444 Karl spent years upon years grinding WR's in Goldeneye and other N64 titles, he definitely has mindset and dedication that fits TM.
But yeah, definitely is a crazy good time.
Honestly, I feel like good speedrunners share traits that will translate to multiple games if they're determined. Precision and persistence will get you a long way
I know I'm a bit late here, but I've been playing Trackmania since 2011 and I'm feeling mugged off knowing, that a guy, that played this game for 1 week completely smashed my PB of 24.18 by 2 tenths of a second...
Awesome video! I think the only thing missing, would be a description of the newer Trackmania game, which would be awesome to have new players try out!
Karl "The Legend" Jobst aka the only CZcamsr I don't skip the sponsoring. Thank you for your Content!
The CZcams algorithm had just recommended me Wirtual and I binge watched months worth of content over the past few weeks.
Right before this bombshell fell. Crazy timing, and good on those who so diligently brought this to public attention.
I had the same thing happen, I binged both Wirtual and Riolu after discovering TM only a month ago, now we're here.
@@steffenp7384 loved to put his CotD videos on in the background :( I was really torn when I found out he cheated, but when I saw the clip of him mocking Wirtual it was made clear how that’s not a person I want to support
The same happened to me, i discovered TrackMania in November 2020, stopped watching it, but it made its way back in April 2021 (I have been watching it since)
same.
Karl, you going to cover the latest revelaion from Dream, admitting he cheated "unknowingly" in his speed runs for Minecraft?
Hopefully, but Karl never rushes to cheating scandals.
I could have believed him the first days after, as a simply mistake forgetting about a modified file he used for manhunt. After so long and so many excuses he has no credibility at all.
Where we can see his excuses though?
At this point, it almost feels more like Dream trying to stay relevant like that, or rather milking that for some more publicity... But that's just my naive opinion on it.
@@umbaupause Dream's community is twice as big as it was at the moment, he does not need to "stay relevant" in speed running
I honestly started to hate dream during this whole thing. I’ve seen so many people have their lives ruined because they faked speed running. They lost their whole community, and even if they changed their ways. But for some reason everyone can forget about dream. It just makes me annoyed especially how he never admitted to it (that I know of) and how he had previously excoriated drem who cheated before him. I can no longer watch his manhunts which I used to love, and it makes it much more annoying to see how many people love him in the dream smp series (which besides for him I like)
Damn... your level of reporting is top notch. Bravo. Thank you for this and all you have done. Specially the Billy Bitchell vids... those are my favorites. Ban all cheaters.
I'm glad that people are confessing rather than creating drama by denying it, this is not only better for the comunity in the sense that there's no toxicity or side picking, but this let's the moderators openly aproach them to further develop meassures against their specific cheat tachtics.
Many of them seem to be trully passionate of the game, so I hope they can turn around and help keep a level field for everyone from now on, it might be naive wishful thinking, but I do think it's a posibility.
I do like that the tone of your videos convey less "reveling in schadenfreude" and more just focus on being informative, including giving an insight on the games' mechanics themselves before anything and even incentivising people to try out the games/speedruns themselves.
This stuff keeps communities healthy without handing out pitchforks and it's great.
Have my german like for using "Schadenfreude"
Riolu:
*ah shit here we go again*
Ach Scheiße*
@@schroume hier gehen wir erneut.
14:40 I have watched this video 6 or 7 times now and didnt notice that username...Phillip Amthor is a German politician that gets memed a lot. What a legend
So genug Schabernack
Hey there karl just wanted to say the video was increadable the soft gentle music in the background was great and really added a lot of emotion!
Basically, these guys just performed an audit. I get a lot of back lash when I present evidence that contradicts the clients expectation. Can get messy. I can relate
I get a lot of back lash too, when I present evidence that contradicts the witness's statement, specially when the music keeps playing and the health bar hasn't gone away
@@Sir_Isaac_Newton_ please tell me this is a Phoenix Wright reference lol
The really cool part was that it was even possible to audit the files in the first place. I'm a little shocked nobody thought to wonder how the verification process worked earlier.
My god, Karl is an absolute legend.
The absolute legend called us absolute legends..what an honor..
Just like Apollo was.
Ur awesome
...
Reeves: Ur awesome
just wanted to tell you how rewatchable your videos are, it's great stuff
The celebration in the clip at the end was possibly the first time I've genuinely heard some of your aussie accent and diction shine through haha. Love it
14:45 Player: Phillip Amthor
Wusste gar nicht dass der boi zocker ist, zerstört bestimmt alle
Naja im bundestag hat man halt viel freizeit und wenig zu tun.
hab nach den comment gesucht
@@defmanwalking Isso... Genauso wie jeder auf seiner Couch sitzend besser weiß wie Politik funktioniert als die 700 Abgeordneten im Bundestag. Ganz analog zum Fußball...
The way you said "I did this" at the end, SummoningSalt was invoked
So you could say he- Summoned Salt?
Should have included the music.
Summoningsalt got some of his music from EmpLemon and he said that from a comment in one of his Mario kart videos
I think "I did this" is from WirtualTM
Rip to all those who don't know how friggin funny the name Phillip Amthor is 14:45
If I remember correctly, Mario Kart Wii interestingly also records inputs, which is why hacked times always have the character desync on your end when viewing the time trials. I believe this is also the case with 8.
Wow, I know Karl does his research, but in the past I always had to just trust him as I didn't really know the game he was covering. But this time I know the game and was following the scandal from before the report broke. I was expecting watching this video to be like reading an article in the newspaper on a topic you are an expert in: the non-expertise of the writer being obvious. But that wasn't the case here. Karl, you did a great job covering this!
Some guy: I cheated
Everyone else: We also cheated.
It was only a matter of time before they were discovered, coming clean now is the only possible way to save a modicum of face
it was presented that way in the video for story reasons, but the timeline was more along the lines of
Donadigo: riolu and others cheated
riolu: no i didnt
everyone else in the report: yes we did
trabadia, not even mentioned in the report: me too
@@LoLXaxziminrax despite that, some people just refuse to own up to their shit. I don't mind someone honestly going "well fuck I guess I gotta admit" because at least it shows a speck of decency.
Everyone who admitted cheating is basically being given a free pass by the community. It's absurd.
@@raqyee they're really not, people are just so focused on riolu they don't give them any attention
hey hows the little legend ? It has been awhile since iv been back to this channel. I love the in depth looks.
Watching this late at night after a massive mass effect binge, I was so confused when I kept hearing the galaxy map music in my head until I realised it was used in this video, I clearly need some sleep now 😂 Great vid Karl 👌🏻
had to laugh at the phillip amthor(14:40) gameplay! :D phillip amthor is also the name of a young german conservative politician who was recently caught in his first corruption(as i would say) scandal. he is basically speedrunning politics :D
I was looking for a comment like this ^^ ältester 27-Jähriger der Welt
is it the same person?
any% Kanzleramt
Phillip der alte Gamer
conservatives and corruption go together like toast and butter
16:39 "The day I finished editing this video I ended up doing this :"
16:43 Summoning Salt's synthesizer track starts playing in my head.
The track that makes you feel like you're floating through space
LOL Oh yeah! Same here...that tune is absolutely hypnotic...my brain associates it with goodness!
that was a great video Karl...well presented and edited...i'm liking your style!! Do you stream on twitch??? Gonna go have a look for you now...
14:39 Philipp Amthor? That's more Schabernack then he has done to the Bundestag.
Personally, the thing I find the most amazing about this is the amount of work and research that Donadigo put into exposing the cheaters, and how methodical and rigorous his methodology was. Those skills can be applied to so many spheres of life. If someone hasn't already, I hope someone offers him a job where he can put those skills to good use.
He knew the accusations he was building. Those were some of the very top players who had big followings. Anything less than a watertight report would have backfired on him... I can't imagine the pressure he & Wirtual were feeling while writing that report.
what I find amazing is that he initially wasn't even try to find cheaters. He was just creating a tool to help people learn from other runners, and ended up stumbling upon a bunch of suspicious play
The report has almost scientific standards. Well done stuff
I didn't enjoy reading it because of the betrayal of trust it exposed, but it's obvious that it's better this way.
Shoutout to Donadigo and Wirtual for leaving no stone unturned. It's crazy the level of dedication a community has to be able to produce something like this.
These are consistently some of the highest quality videos on all of CZcams, not just gaming
Wirtual recently got me hooked on trackmania. Absolutely love nations forever. It can be a bit frustrating with how tight it is, but it's too damn fun
The future of Trackmania is looking bright.
Trabadia: Look, this guy cheated!
also Trabadia: I cheated, sorry guys...
a lot easier to recognize the signs of cheating if you've done it a lot yourself
@@LoreleiBlaine he didn't cheat in the same way, he used macros to perform the start (or the end sd i don't remember)
@@Panimioul doesn‘t make it better
@@klobi119 and I never insinuated it was, I was commenting on lore's reply, that just didn't make sense in the context.
@@Panimioul I think he also cheated the same way (slow motion) on different tracks, though mostly macros on a01. He acknowledged that recently I think after Donadigo and others commented that his first admission lacked a lot
Karl: talks about Trackmania
CZcams: *Rocket League, take it or leave it*