ChampTalk: Trail Braking
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2020
- If you are not on the controls, you are out of control. Using the brakes past tip-in allows you to control geometry, speed, and direction all the way to the slowest part of the corner. Nick Ienatsch podcast gets into the best practices and most important information you need on this absolutely fundamental technique for all motorcycle riders from first-time riders to top of the podium champions.
I don't know how they'd do it but trail braking should be covered and taught before you get your road license. It gives you so much more control however you ride on the street 👍👍👍
#truth
Facts
One of Nicks best 10 minutes of instruction right there. Packs a lot in there. You owe it to yourself to take something at YCRS and get the full story.
Thanks!
Nick, I've been trail breaking, and practicing. TODAY July 8th, it really paid off, into a semi blind corner, and a near stationary traffic jam. 😊 Yam R1 rider, with 30 yrs sports riding experience. ❤
This is the best explanation of why you should trail brake.
Fantastic explanation on trail braking. I also like that it's concise and to the point.
Thanks for watching!
Makes so much sense! Quick and concise. Thank you
So concise it takes 3 minutes to start talking about trail breaking
Learned to trail brake a week after getting my endorsement after doing a ton of practice in the parking lot on emergency braking to get rid of the innate response of snatching the brakes in unexpected scenarios. Coming from a road cycling and racing background it was a bit easier since countersteering, body positioning, looking through corners, and being gradual with brakes and body positioning on two wheels was already drilled into me. I recall my first ride in the real twisties and being amazed that anyone would be so reckless as to ride these technical roads without trail braking, surely you could do it but seems way riskier betting that you nailed the entry speed with a narrow margin vs having complete control going through corners. Looking forward to doing Champs School in 2023.
We would love to have you.
Awesome instruction.
Thank you.
Awesome video. Just signed up for October class I’m excited. 👍
Clearly explained, thanks
Thanks!
Just got the sport riding techniques book it's great! 🙂
Thank you for showing interest in advancing your riding. We hope to see you at the school some day. Stay tuned for more ChampTalk.
I remember watching Nick ride at Willow back in the day on a 250 when I used to race WSMC events.. Trust me. The dude is lightning fast.
First! 👍 Awesome video!
Thanks man! Big fans of your videos as well. Let's do one together soon. Be great to have Nick on yours.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs Fucking. Do. This--^^
That was a great lesson. thanks guys
Thank you!
❤ Tyre pressure is very important for Good braking
Super explanation.
Thank you
Came here from another video, love this view of the ride and explanation! What music track is this plz?!
Learnt Trailbraking on my kmart hard tail
Great content. New Sub. Bell rung. Thumb smashed.
Great tip
Thanks!
What is trial cluch
I'm still a new rider, my boss (who has been riding sport bikes all his life) tells me trail breaking should be done only with the rear break. All the info I can find on it says it should be the front break. To me the science in why the front break is better makes more sense.
He (your boss) is not talking about trail breaking. That's to position/point the bike into the corner. You can see the MotoGP guys do that too (to an extreme level). However this is not at all the same thing.
Andrew using a little bit of rear brake whilst at lean helps pull the bike over a bit more , as the bike slows it naturally pulls the bike over as the speed decreases that makes the turn radius tighter , once you are off the front brake at lean the forks have rebounded back to normal ride height and when you start to use it the front in that scenario it wants to stand the bike up , so to counter that effect you need to add more effort to counter steer to help hold the bike at lean, if you find that the corner is tightening on you a little rear brake works well but practice to get a light touch is needed
@craigcourtney4209, nice reply. I agree. I've been playing with these ideas/ styles on my road motorcycle and today on my mountain bike (mtb) its amazing how much we feather both or either brake depending on the corner.. its good to become conscious of the attitude of the bike under different conditions of brake applications.. many years experience on both recreations and still learning and thinking. My search on you tube today was quick steer vs trail braking.😮
Having been riding for a couple of years now, this is one skill I want to learn. Feel like my skill as a rider is stuck and I can’t get better at riding.
Hey these guys just released an online course. You should definitely have a look on their website.
How many bikes have you ridden? Maybe a different series or style of bike would help? If you have the money grab another bike, or trade in what you have on a dual sport, an older bike without controls, or something you like. Especially if you have something with all of the electronics that have traction control and different modes, be safe but try something that is just you, the throttle, the gears, and the brakes and you will learn more than you can imagine. Stick with it, i have 30 years but off and on, not consecutively and until i started watching youtube motorcycle videos i really didn't know much even though i followed many basic principles of safety and efficiency. This is a treasure trove of information. Good luck!!
This made me want to go to the class. Saw the price and I’ll get there one day. I know it will make me better
Our ChampStreet program is only $495 at most locations for 1 day class.
Awesome. I saw the 2 day class in Jersey for 2k plus. That price you shared is encouraging
Check out the events here labeled #street
ridelikeachampion.com/schedule/
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs thank you
I have a question. Always confused by this especially riding on the street. Do you completely close the throttle when trail braking or have some throttle and trail brake at the same time?
We never use the brakes to slow the motorcycle and the throttle at the same time. The throttle is completely closed.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs thanks
My bike's ECU (and likely every new bike that has to conform to modern emission standards) has a fuel deceleration cutoff "feature": meaning that the fuel injectors are shut off completely when decelerating with closed throttle (engine is effectively off with zero fuel flow). Getting back on the throttle mid-corner has a very noticeable delay/jerkiness as the engine is refired after being off.
There are ECU reflash services available for my ECU that will disable the decel fuel cut "feature", but all those reflash services say that they are for track use only and are not street legal.
Given all this: is a tiny bit of throttle ok while trail braking, just for the sole purpose to avoid the decel fuel cutoff? Would be interested to hear y'all's thoughts on that!
@@beepbop6697 Put a Power Commander on it. Go into the fuel map, for 0% throttle in all RPM range put any number between 5-10. Personally, I put 10 above 8000rpm so the engine decel isn't quite so intense, seems to work quite well for me. This is on a CBR600RR
I finally understand…
👍
Love your Videos. I ride an R3, which has a ton of engine braking. I am trying to learn trail braking (street only at this time) I just read one of your replies to a question about throttle while trail braking. You said never the two at the same time. With that being said, I should enter a corner trail braking with engine braking at the same time. No throttle until I see the exit and gently roll off the brake and easy on to the throttle. if this is correct please share your thoughts with engine breaking on a R3. Thank you
Hi - The although engine braking is a method for slowing down, it's not effective or adjustable. You just have on or off. The brake lever on the other hand is very adjustable and effective. We recommend using the brake lever, even if its only getting pads to rotors, say 1% pressure, over only relying on engine braking. The engine is much better at making the motorcycle go than stop.
Perfect response from the Champ school-but I’ll just throw it out there-your R3 has nearly no engine braking. Take a liter bike to the red line and roll of in 1st gear and report back.
Keep learning & growing!
@@VState60 What you said is true but it's always subjective when people make such comments, so that's understandable
What Kenny wrote in that book makes perfect sense. What people call "trail braking" today doesn't.
What about on dirtbikes? Why are they saying that trail braking is taboo in dirtbikes?
But then again, Jeremy McGrath is a trail braker!
Why is Trail braking not good for beginners? How is it for street riding? Logically I think it will make one safer rider as it will develop good braking habits. Thank you.
Yes....trail braking is good for beginners and street riders. 100%.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs Thank you so much, take care.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs when trail braking; is the focus mainly on the front brake application or is the rear brake being applied simultaneously, under the same conditions as the front?
Because noobies are stupid
@@johannepiper6836 Awesome!!
Noobie rider here (have been off bikes for 30yrs for medical school and surgical practice)
Still doing vascular surgery but needed some distraction after the past 18 months of unpleasantness.
I'm such a dumbass...
Thanks for your input.
I thought we’re breaking almost close to the apex?
It took me a long time to understand trail-braking... Because there seems to be so much confusion about it and it's apparently controversial, I thought it must be more complex than my understanding of it. I thought there must be something I wasn't getting.
Now, I'm sure it is no more than what I initially thought, which, to me, seems pretty simple. I don't get what the big deal is. Why are people against it? Why do people struggle with it? 🤷♂️
I think that some people are against it, just because they don't understand how it's correctly done: too many videos about trail braking showing we should be hard on the brakes until the apex like on MotoGP and right after, hard on the throttle... crazy!! And also many riding techniques, which are simple (even if requiring finess), are "sold" as a very complex matter that requires a thesis, so they can ruminate the subject and make many videos about a straight forward thing. The idea is to have a "product" to "sell".
@@armandomateus5103 👍
@@armandomateus5103 Exactly this. Many of these guys make riding a motorcycle, a matter of nuclear science, with a bunch of complicated formulas for EVERYTHING.
What about throttle control when entering corner and leaning bike? I am talking about first half of the corner. Should throttle be completely closed or should it be opened a little bit to make everything smoother? I heard that some of guys enter corners and lean bike with slightly opened throttle and never close it while (trail)braking. It confuses me although.
We never use the brakes and throttle at the same time. It sends mixed messages to the motorcycle.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs thank you!
No worries. Subscribe to our channels and come to the school to change your riding life.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs Hi there, I've seen some videos and read on some motorcycle books about "maintenance throttle" while going into a corner. I'm confused as to how does this relate to trail braking and using either throttle or brake but not both.
@@jsprite123 trail braking is an advanced technique. For normal riding into a corner you would slow or brake for corner then lean in and apply just enough throttle to maintain your speed and lean angle . If you slow during the corner it will tighten your corner radius . They have other videos on their channel that will explain it better.
I get it for the track, but in the road you should only be going into a corner as fast as you can see around it, so do you braking before you enter the corner, then if something unseen is blocking your path you can stop in time, if you go in quicker and rely on covering the brakes rapid deceleration against a solid object could be the result.
Covering the brake or using the brake to steer the motorcycle has nothing to do with velocity. 1% of brake pressure will accomplish the goal without barreling into the corner.
@@Ridelikeachampionycrs Surely barreling into a corner or bend is what motor racing is all about isn't it? Its all about the ability to go faster and braking later than your competitors. Of riding into the bend behind but coming out in front. Its about always pushing ones own abilities and boundaries. Of the taking of increased risk and pushing the envelope as far as it and you will go. Of both competency and confidence in ones own ability and that of the bikes which as has been noted at times doesn't want to do what you want it to do and therefore one is fighting it around a track especially on some corners.. We also know as do riders that the end result of coming to grief on a race track is far less than one coming off in a street or country corner situation. One is an injury, usually slight and the other is always a potential of suffering serious injuries or death if one gets it wrong.
Surely, the options are to slow and if necessary braking prior to a bend to achieve the correct speed, of braking prior to the bend and then continue at a speed that is in relationship with the vanishing or limit point. Then with full and relaxed front suspension add a little positive throttle to overcome the natural tendency of the bike to slow when cornering in a lean and roll, using countersteering to lean the bike over at a lesser speed and a lesser lean angle so that one can transcribe the bend flowing with it and keeping safe distance with the vanishing point until after the apex where one can accelerate out and move positioning towards the future road ahead. By this method one has plenty of suspension, positioning, lean angle, front and rear wheel grip and braking left over, spare to be used if and when necessary.This is unlike a racing position of out in out and one where one tries to achieve the maximum speed and lean angle thus leaving very little left in the event that an emergency occurs and one needs to respond with what ever is left over. I am not saying that one cannot deal with certain matters as when in conflict with other racers both going the same way and coming together one can brake and or swerve. Or mostly lose grip, front or back tyre wise and low slide or high side and an off.
A lot of safety and control will depend on what is ones actual speed into the corner and at what speed a corner or bend can be taken at. With trail braking its difficult to actually say with any certainty that one is only giving 1% of braking at any one time particularly when all the senses are concentrating on speed, position, bend radius , braking points, apexes, lean angles, road surfaces, adverse cambers, fully compressed front suspension, grip etc. So its between Slowing by 1% at 60 mph and taking a sharp and blind bend faster as opposed to slower with ample braking left and with grip and countersteering available. With enough in reserve to brake gently in with reserves of lean angle and grip and suspension travel and then to give more lean angle or to brake, temporarily standing the bike up. Then returning to the bend rather than lose contact with the road at all.
Its your choice. My own opinion is that if you has not recommended the performance line from the start. Of it being faster, out in out then you would not be in this position of having as many offs on some bends as you do. Therefore you wouldn't need to now be looking for an alternative teaching method and subsequently supporting Trail braking as it would not be necessary on your roads at all.
@@judgedredd49 I bet when people finish there braking in a straight line the tip in off the brakes have taken the finger’s off the lever , when trail braking you still are using slightly your front brake so your still touching/controlling and the front tyre is still pressed into the road surface a bit more , so if you do need to use the front mid turn you response time is quicker and your not trying to load a front tyre that has had some of its grip deminished by not having that little bit of extra weight transfer to the front tyre , it’s so much easier to loose the front when needing to reapply the front than just add a little bit more pressure
Okay, I have to say this:
It seems there is contradictions here.
The voice over is saying leave the brake on while going into your tip - because releasing it will make the bike want to go straigh.
Yet in the turns when he is hitting the front brake, he is going into his lean, but while in the lean, he releases the brake.
My logic says the bike would want to go straight at that point if what he says is true about releasing the brake will make the bike want to go straight.
That means you won't be going into the curve right
He's never "hitting" the front brake, but he does release the brake while in the corner ... Only after he is happy with his speed and direction!
Honestly guys that quote doesn’t describe trail braking. It more closely describes Simon Crafar & Keith Code’s method. I’m not sure why that isn’t clear?
Please see my comment (James Schuitema) on “CanyonChasers” “part 2” video on specific elements of mixing the throttle and trail braking. I have paid for your online course and have yet to definitely (clearly) answer my question as I posed. Check it out and please advise and in the process illuminate us all on this important question. Thank you Champ School!
Whats the question?
The guy riding didn’t even touch the brake lever in some corners. 🤔🤨🤷🏼♂️
or get an mt07 and have the engine do all the braking for you lol
Engine braking is a form of slowing down, but it is unreliable and unadjustable. If you suddenly need more, you can't close the throttle any more than closed. If use the brakes or at least cover the brakes, you have a lot more options.
Somebody tell Chip to cover the brakes at all times please lol
Holy crap no ones cares about the history or your friends in the community just speak of what the video is titled!!!!!!