All religions are a way of life based on beliefs. Its like saying "its not a car, its a motor vehicle." Wow, genius! LOLOL When you have to resort to word salad it means you have no facts.
There’s a lot of practicing Catholics who disagree with the Church. I always wondered why they remain Catholic if they don’t align with the beliefs. Realizing that it’s more about the practice and the belonging rather than the belief really changed my outlook.
Including me. I remain within the Catholic church, despite my disagreement with many teachings, dogmas, and practices, mostly because I respect the tradition and my communities. As long they don't push me to the edges, I am fine staying within the church.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I wonder about that too but also from a psychological perspective. So far my hypothesis is that they don't really have faith in Jesus, and are not really interested in the teachings of Jesus, and totally not interested in having to live their lives confined and or handicapped by it especially if it entails any kind of suffering. Popular Christianity is primarily focused on what scholars think and say and on using a certain pre-selected set of bible passages to either defend or appose it. This video itself is the prime example of the shallowness to Jesus' teachings. It delivered little to nothing about "The True Teachings of Jesus". That was just click bait to promote a book about what another scholar thinks. This system of "which scholars to believe" demonstrates the total lack of any regard for what Jesus actully taught; " At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do." But how can they believe when they desire the praise and acceptance from men rather than acceptance from God?
100% agree. Popular Religion = Adherence to social practices Heartfelt Religion = Feeling and understanding the world, love and living in peaceful joy.
Excellent, I love Dr. Pagels. She is much more nuanced in her understandings of Jesus's teachings, gnosis/mysticism, and early Christian beliefs (as compared to Ehrman - "dead is dead!" I'm sorry, but some scholars don't have any sense at all for mysticism, the direct experience of the divine/spiritual). Beliefs weren't all black and white. And the fact that Jesus's esoteric teachings weren't written down at the time (vs. parables for the masses) is part of the reason why there were so many different beliefs early on. The milk teachings became orthodox Christianity, and the secret esoteric teachings went in the other direction and were proclaimed heresy by the orthodoxy. There were early Christian (and early Jewish) mystics, and I'm pretty sure Jesus was one. Deeper esoteric teachings weren't originally written down, they were only oral, and only shared with those who were more mature in spiritual understanding. Yes, meat and milk teachings. You don't teach calculus or quantum physics to a kindergartner. I don't know why most mainstream Christians get upset at the idea that Jesus taught secretly to more advanced disciples. They are sure he meant his teachings to be fore everyone, there can't be "secret teachings"! But even Jesus warned against casting pearls before swine - the pearl being a symbol of divine wisdom or gnosis.
I read 3 of Elaine's books. Wonderful author and scholar. Props to Derek for literate, relevant questions, and allowing the scholar to speak with little interruption.
I appreciate Elaine Pagels so much! I read this book when it was published and again this year. I use what I learned from reading it often when talking about any of the Abrahamic traditions.
I get a sense of Jesus saying, no one comes to the Father but by me, when I feel that He is saying, become one with me as I and the Father are one. We step into eternity in His light. His light is the life and the light encompasses us as one person in unity with Him. Everything is God. God is all, and we are a part of that all. When the 2 become 1 there is only 1.
Thank you Derek , by offering to us the opportunity with this great discussion ... To discovering the most kind, recomforting and ... Sagacious PhD scholar you talked to‼ And the thing who made me wrote this little thing is ... the bright flamme of intelligence who shine in her beautiful gray blue eyes💘
I think in 1st Corinthians, Paul is definitely talking about the gnostic teachings. He’s saying the people weren’t ready for that level of consciousness but they found a way to get them closer to source all the same.
Love your videos Derek but this video title is pretty misleading. It should read what did [some of] the earliest Christians believe in? Not Jesus himself.
Thanks.I thought it was just me that thought this.Actually in my view the video was more about what St Pauls version of Christianity was. Paul had never met Jesus & would have never read the Gospels as Paul died 63ad before the Gospels were even written. Paul thought that people could be saved by faith alone. But Jesus taught that to obtain salvation people had to love their creator & fellow human beings as themselves, care for those in need & not judge others. All relatively simple things that anyone can do, not just Christians !
Very good to hear, Outloud----as anyone who has not stepped into the steamy dualistic pile of belief---intuits and knows that the Gospel has nothing to do with be"lie"f, they fully understand that belief is a cultic step down from the Realization That Is The Gospel....similar to The Tao.
Yes, I've seen similarities to the Tao as well. - The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Wow, Elaine, well presented. You touched upon something few people realize, that the narrow gate is within oneself. Jesus is always speaking about the hidden in hidden language. He uses parables and says himself that his language is figurative. Beautifully presented.
Dr. Elaine Pagel is an honest-to-goodness lover of truth ..... Her exposition of some "missing links" in the Holy Scriptures, as results of timely discoveries, are puzzle bricks that are instrumental for deep understanding of "true gospels"...... I believe such an exposition is aimed to educate rather than to eradicate.
The teachings of the disciples were mainly about Jesus Christ being the Son of God, his death and resurrection and that Salvation is found through him. Did Paul contradict any of these teachings?
@@edward1412 The entire New Testament is a contradiction to the Old Testament. Spend some time examining the four accounts of Paul's "Damascus road experience", and try to match up the stated "facts" in each account; no two of them match up. Spend some time examining the "stated facts" surrounding the crucifixion and resurrection accounts, and you will find irreconcilable contradictions. The standard churchianity drivel that they are just four differing viewpoints of the same event is hogwash; that would be like four witnesses of an auto accident and one says it happened at noon, and one says it happened at 5 pm, one says it was between a VW and a pickup, and one says it was between a train and a big rig. Ridiculousness.
@@edward1412 Yes Paul did. Jesus said by works and Paul says by faith alone. Paul said Jesus was first of the risen dead not knowing that Lazarus was risen before Jesus. Book of acts shows Paul is a fraud, that the Apostles did not beleive his conversion story.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
3:28 -- Christianity did not make everything about belief because there were so many different interpretations. Anyone who reads the gospels knows that Jesus was concerned with what is in one's heart, not what legal rules they were enacting.
Thanks for this wonderful video. I read "The Gnostic Gospels" when it was a new book, and count it as an important moment in my personal growth. Growing up nominally Christian in a mixed family and neighborhood, I had long realized at some level the distinction between Christianity and Judaism as Dr. Pagels describes it, but I have never been able to put it into words so eloquently. However, I do think you are painting Christianity with a bit too broad of a brush - I feel that the different modern varieties of Catholicism are certainly Christian, but are indeed intended to be a way of life rather than simply a belief. My understanding is that most Catholic thinkers take a "Jamesian" approach to salvation, where faith without works isn't enough.
Bearing in mind that Paul is indeed our earliest "Christian" writer, I have to wonder just how useful he can be when attempting to get at what Jesus himself may have taught. What he intended. He did after all go to the cross as a Jew who spoke to Jews.
You can look at the gospel of Tomas, that are not in Mt, Lk, Mk, that appear to be more primitive. You can look at the heresiologies against the ebionites. The epistle of James (less the two oassages referring to the christ) The Q+ that DRM has published.
@@arnulfo267 A good point. I am aware of this and (perhaps weakly) making a case for temporarily ignoring Paul altogether when trying to determine what Jesus may have said and intended and not necessarily what Christian doctrine (which very much relies on Paul) was/is trying to teach. Still a difficult exercise but in this context perhaps useful? Certainly Paul is required when attempting to understand what the post Jesus Jerusalem Church was about through his arguments against them.
Paul is an early writer and theologian, but bear in mind that there was a 'church' in existence for him to persecute. Therefore, Paul is irrelevant to the Origen of the church.
To answer that question is rather more complex. The character of Jesus was already based on previous stories before and the gospel writers brought that same character in, so I don’t think the gospel writers had in mind about a true teaching as they were trying to be consistent with the character from previous stories
I agree. People are so fixated on changing "there could have been an historical person" to "there MUST have been an historical person, and I personally know what he was like" that they forget that, whether or not there was an original teacher (or teachers), Jesus in the gospels is just a character. The gospel writers obviously know this, and you can tell by the way they treat the character. They freely embellish him and file off the parts they don't like. If he had been a real person whom people had actually experienced, they wouldn't have been quite so cavalier about making up stories and quotations for him that contradicted the earlier stories and quotations.
Edward Dodge has written a great book detailing how religious practices evolved. While his work is primarily concerning polytheistic practices, he writes about how emerging "belief systems" incorporated previous traditions (tweaked) and how we ended up with monotheism using all the stories from polytheistic systems of belief. Edward Dodge - A History of the Goddesses from the Ice Age to the Bible, 2021.
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I remember when "The Gnostic Gospels" first came out. Elaine Pagles is always so interesting. For some reason when I think of her I also think of Karen Armstrong, though she tends to write about Islam.
A fascinating explanation. It is important to understand that Dr Pagels is speaking of what others believed and not of her own beliefs or of facts. In my view, Paul, who was creating, or at least structuring, a new religion was dealing with gentiles who were religiously intelligent and familiar with a number of different religions and belief systems in the melting pot of the empire. Because of this, he had to be wary of making personal claims that might not be believed and would thus undermine his work. I think he was a very smart individual who understood just how much to say to people to lead them to his new invented religion without making wild claims.
How many Christians can read their scriptures in the language they are written? They read the Bible in translations which makes it a second-hand religion, all translations of any literature are second-hand. How do you expect Asians and Africans to appreciate Greco-Roman-Judio-Christian narratives? They just follow Christian beliefs told to them by missionaries.
Wonderful interview with Dr. Pagels. i Love her book Why Religion? She is an amazing person. Have you ever interviewed Amy-Jill Levine or Luke Timothy Johnson? Thank you, Mr. Derek
True religion is neither about having beliefs or behaviour. It is about recognising what is true and real. " you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free " John 8 : 31 Belief is guesswork, not knowledge. The fact is that we do not really know who we are, and what life is.
@@kimbirch1202 Jesus abrogated his peaceful verses with verses of hate and violence. ' go buy swords kill my deniers. ' attacked rabbis in temple with a whip made of chord '
@@etzelkaplan9677 He also said " the Kingdom of God is WITHIN you " There is no external being called God, up there in the sky, or some place called heaven or paradise. That is for children and half wits only
Religions were - laws. People today are mistaken in comparing Christianity to Judaism, or Hinduism to Islam, etc. Everybody should compare their own (their family's, their country's) religion with - the legal system of their country and the international laws. Like, text compared to text. All books of your religion on one side, vs all books of all laws that sum up the entirety of your country's Law. Everybody should be made aware of this as an early as in a mandatory highschool curriculum, i.e. a subject matter. Young people should be made to compare, for example, how domestic violence is treated in the religious books of the religion they feel they adhere to, vs how it is by treated in the texts of the Family Law, Criminal Code, etc. Everyone should be made aware how many things and situations are not even mentioned, let alone treated, in old religious books, whereas they are thoroughly dealt with in the thousands upon thousands of law texts we are lucky to have today. And then they should be asked the question, if you had to live in a social system where everyone's lives are managed by either one or the other group of books, which group of books would you choose, which set of rules would you rather want to live under? Hm, ladies? Sexual harassment at work? Spousal rape? Domestic violence? Child abuse? Who gets the kids after a divorce? NONE of it was ever dealt with in the religious laws. Hm, guys? Punishment for not accepting the opressor's religion? Cutting off the hand if you steal an apple because you're hungry? The non-existent social assistance cheques? Social housing? Veterans' rights? Human rights? Chose carefully.
Since this video doesn't actually address that question, although I love Derek's videos, my two cents are that I agree with the majority scholarly opinion that Jesus was a lenient, Torah-observant, apocalyptic messianic Jew.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I wonder why the interviewer is fixated on Paul, paul, paul in his many interviews with academics. What about what Jesus said? Paul is not higher than Jesus. Paul sayings and Jesus sayings are not on the same level and equivalent.
So does Dr. Pagels get the sense that in some way Paul was a Gnostic Christian? Or is it just that the secret teachings of Paul leant themselves towards gnostic interpretation? Or something else? Amazing interview Derek, you and Dr. Pagels are awesome!!
Christianity is about a RELATIONSHIP with God. Jesus spoke often against the ‘religion’ of the Pharisees. JESUS OPENED THE WAY FOR EVERY PERSON TO HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. Dietary restrictions and things along those lines were basically ‘abolished’. ‘Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial’. *BELIEF is FUNDAMENTAL.* You don’t believe AFTER you’ve been convinced of it’s authenticity, you believe because Jesus is the Lord. What follows is through the RELATIONSHIP - prayer, corporate worship, good works, etc. - these things ARE the life of a BELIEVER. Faith INCREASES through BELIEF in that life.
I also came from Fundamentalism. I became Catholic because if Christianity is going to be true in the way we understand what is orthodoxy, you cannot reject the Catholic Church. Fundamentalists, though, do not study historical Christianity because it's such a threat.
Yes, most (if not all) religions are fundamentally about social control, establishing rules and guidelines on behaviors and defining social relationships. Religious tradition originated earlier than what we think of as secular legal structures. They are closely related. But religion adds an element of cosmology to the mix, whereas secular laws are _limited_ to behavior and social relationships. So there is always an element of belief in religion, even though it may not be the primary focus of most adherents. The social rules and guidelines are seen to have their origin in the cosmology of the religion.
It's not that there are things you are not "supposed" to say, but you cannot put the mysteries into words. "Let the dead bury the dead" is not about physical death but spiritual deadness. "Resurrected from the dead", they definitely ascend to the highest heavens, but then they return to live the next day... and then ascend to the highest again... Remember Paul's "I die daily"? He died to the ego daily and ascended to the highest heaven - the top of the mountain, for Moses, etc...
Why is a Muslim not eat pork? Its not just because their culture does not allow them to? Why is a Muslim not drink alcohol? Why is in Judaism they kept or keep the law? All these groups are doing these rituals, or keep these laws because they believe that God/Yahweh/Allah demands that. I am a bit lost on what Dr Pagels is saying, and it could be my fault.
The interesting thing about this subject is if you look at Hebrew laws. The behaviors bannered in the Old Testament were high-risk behaviors that exposed the community to illness, allergens, and disease. Take no God before me, the tern religious ecstasy had a different meaning when services often resulted in orgies. STDs were a big problem back then. Interestingly enough homosexuality is not banned in the bible but sodomy in many forms is banned. In short, the laws gave the Hebrew people an advantage over their neighbors. Laws made sure the food supply was safe, crop rotation so the soil was cared for, and laws of self-isolation prevented pandemics. The ban on witches was more about the "cures" they sold, in other words, conmen. When I realized that God had given the Jews the tools to prosper if followed and they caused their own punishment when they didn't. This suggests that God may not be that into us and doesn't put much thought into us at all. I personally see it as a beautiful symmetry with the way the universe is designed. It is humbling to realize the vastness of a universe-creating force that is God and how small and petty mankind is to believe that the universe was created for us. Our ministers act as if God is the servant and we the masters.
Religion is just the particular "club" that one chooses to participate in for practicing their spirituality and encountering glimpses of the godhead. There is something valid about those "Gnostic" scriptures that were hidden from humanity for so many years.
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@perazdera2827 Not interested in hearing from that fraud Paul nor from any of those counterfeit epistles. You Paulians don't seem to know how to read what it says in the Book of Acts.
@@perazdera2827 I'm sorry to hear that you have not read any of the Nag Hammadi library or other Gnostic literature. Much of it, but not all, correlates to Jesus and aspects of the Bible. There is The Gospel of Phillip, The Sophia of Jesus Christ, The Prayer of the Apostle Paul, The Dialogue of the Savoir, The Gospel of Mary and so many other ancient scriptures and codices. I do find it humorous and saddening that you judge the Gnostic texts without having studied any of them. I hope you will take the time to read them.
Christianity is based on the beliefs of St Paul, rather than the teachings of Jesus. How can God judged anyone as guilty of sin, when Jesus teaches " God judges no one " John 5 : 22 ? The huge error of Christianity was to try and reconcile the teachings of Jesus with Old Testament fairytales. Most so - called religious folk have simply been brainwashed by corrupt Church leaders. The blind leading the blind
What is belief but more transcendental insight.Belief got us through dark ages battered and crippled but still alive why are we still clinging to a defective process when knowledge has been proven to be more reliable and enjoys more trust and respect beliefs ever will . Knowledge of Jesus Christ and his plans for man readily available and not so complex we have to believe a stranger's word
It doesnt make sense to adhere to beliefs just because it was written and taught, especially when so many different groups contradicted each other. Which one do you follow? To have an experience with God and the divine is something else entirely, and thats what matters. Its just not something many people experience, and many people dont know how to have a mystical experience...then the question of belief may be - how do you know a mystical was real, and does it matter if it is or isnt?
Read on down another five verses following the passage Professor Pagels mentions at 7:00 (1 Corinthians 1-3) where Paul is speaking of wisdom reserved for the spiritually mature. At 1 Corinthians 2:9 Paul declares: “But as it is written 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.'” The only place this is written is in Saying #17 of the Gospel of Thomas! Except for having deleted one line, it's an exact quote of the Thomas text. These pieces all fit wonderfully too, because the Gospel of Thomas teaches about life in the present and how by coming to know oneself, one finds spiritual “rest”. There is no mention of beliefs. There is no resurrection or coming judgment. It is a simple teaching of surrender. The way Paul talks in 1 Corinthians contributes to my conclusion that Paul had a copy of the Gospel of Thomas. In fact, I'm prepared to argue that the synoptics and the source document Quelle all drew from it. It's my operating hypothesis for now, and I very much welcome arguments against this idea as the evidence I encounter continues to appear to support my case. How could I possibly be right about this??!! Thanks to any for giving my thoughts a ponder. Peace.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Basically, the old testament is about instructions on how to live in the world, a worldly way.with each other The new testament is about the waited for Messiah come to mankind to raise mankind to a higher "spirutual" existence with God or rather God with mankind. The Messiah established, in the Apostles, a visible Church on earth with God Himself in the Person of The Holy Spirit dwelling, living, existing within the faithful.
It’s very interesting that when Elaine speaks about the recently deceased communicating with the living, she uses a widow as an example. Elaine is a widow; her first husband died tragically. I wonder if she is speaking from personal experience
The overwhelming number of people who have and do practice religion, do so without the notion of "belief". It was not present in polytheistic traditions of Greece, Europe and Mesopotamia. It is not present in most of the traditional religions of Asia either. It seems to have appeared in Christianity, some time after the death of the teacher. I'm guessing what happened is that the apostles were not very good teachers...the stories & parables they repeated to THEIR disciples didn't catch on, so they simply said: "OK OK...You can't really understand what Jesus was saying but if you believe in him that's good enough". Then it became all about belief in the Teacher rather than his teachings.
good , but also Paul was making a point in 1 cor - on the foolishness of the gospel that that is the perception to those who are perishing . it has to appear foolish because the cross as Martin Hengel says was the symbol of death in ignomitiy and shame . he had to start the letter that way to tell them that there so that they will not expect any praise from the world .
You should bring back Robert Price. I know you had a falling out, but I have listened to the podcast that you took offense to and you blew it way out of proportion. Besides, part of being an atheist means your a rationalist and that means we don't always agree on everything. That doesn't mean we ban them like dogmatic religious folks do. Instead you should dedicate a show on just hashing out with him what issues you had offense with. Show religious folks that we are not as intolerant as they are, but discuss our issues in honest dialogue. A truly heartfelt and thought provoking and emotionally charged discussion between the both of you may become one of the best shows you ever did...the only question is, do you have the integrity and mental fortitude to do so? I honestly hope you would. Would you want your audience to cast you aside so readily because of a comment or opinion you held? Then don't be a hypocrite and bring him back.
I just reread what I posted and my apologies for being so scathing in comment. I didn't intend to be so biting. So please forgive that aspect, but do consider the implications of what is being said. Thank you
@@FictionMission my money's down right beside that bet. Humans aren't so black and white, and besides, one doesn't display such emotion to those things/people they don't care about. So Derek, I think enough time has passed, life is bloody short dear sir. I know others want to hear ever more of what Dr. Price has to offer, and that is what your purpose is, isn't it? The dissemination of actual information, right? So, let's pull up our pants, stiffen our chins, and comport ourselves like the people we most would like to emulate: those that are rational, fair, open, and ready to discuss, understand and forgive. Have a show where you both just hash this out, and put it behind you. We listeners would truly appreciate such a display of magnanimity on both sides. You've come a long way from where you started, kudos, now take the next proper step dear sir. 😊
Derek is not being hypocritical. His content has improved (in my assessment) after that guy is no longer getting new input here. Regardless of the reasons he is no longer being featured in new videos. If that guy cannot put out his own videos or get invited to the thousands of other platforms available, it is not Derek's fault the guy has disappeared from our radar screen. Derek not inviting him on does not block the guy from expressing himself.
@@fredericdouglas3574 Dear sir, I am sorry if I did not more clearly indicate the point of being hypocritical were he not to like the idea of someone tuning him out because of one point of contention they had with him. If so, then such would apply. As for Robert Price getting air time, that was not at all my argument. My argument dealt mostly with mending fences such as to continue what I thought was a most wonderful relationship. They grew together, and had a wonderful rapport together. And yes, I would like to see him occasionally on again; is there something wrong with that?
Paul might - might have taken the right tact in the 1st century in saying he had to start with "milk" in teaching people back then about Christ's words and actions. But, I think not. It's now 2,000 years later and preachers and ministers are still delivering sermon after sermon after sermon on Paul and NOT speaking anything explaining the meanings behind Christ’s teachings and actions. This is not an esoteric point I'm making, because within Christ’s words and deeds is everything mankind needs to realize the kingdom of heaven on earth. 2,000 years ago Christ said, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." But, what happened in the meantime between then and now? Beginning with Constantine I monarchies dominated Christianity and the history of rule by divine right was established that led to thousands of years of wars in which millions of people lost their lives. But, what did Christ say? "I have come that you may have life and have it in abundance." The only people who had life in abundance were so-called royalty who professed to rule by divine right while enriching and empowering themselves in ways diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING Christ taught. "He who would be first among you must be your servant. He who would be your king must be your slave just as the Son of Man has come not to be served, but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many." To my ears those words backed by Christ’s willing persecution and His resurrection that followed are perfectly clear. But, virtually no one who was taught about Christ beginning with Paul and for the next 1,200 years knew of those words unless they could read Greek, or Latin and could afford to own a Bible. Books were luxuries most people could not afford and couldn't read if they could afford them. Why is this important now? Kings are a thing of the past. Right? Just before he invaded Ukraine Putin compared himself to Peter the Great. Peter the Great tortured and murdered his own son. Putin has been torturing and murdering millions of Ukrainians, including tens of thousands of children. So, the inherited legacy of rule by tyrants who for 1,500 years pretended to rule by divine right is still inflicting pain, suffering, and death today. And Christ’s actual teachings are still taking a backseat in most churches to endless sermons on Paul and the old Testament. Imo, we who believe in Christ’s words need to become aware of how the history of Christianity unfolded over the past 2,000 years and how we today can change our lives in ways that will realize the kingdom of heaven on earth as Christ taught.
Religion. From Latin, "re ligare", reestablishing connection with Gods. In antiquity religion was a way to explain the world and connect with ancestors and deities. Obedience and dogma were not part of the way of life. People tried to make gods "happy" and priests were their guides, but no one was punished by heresy; interpretation was possible. The Catholic Church introduced infallibility, so nothing could be questioned and obedience was enforced. An institution that would dominate the world had been born.
How do 2 blind men follow Jesus? How does a deaf man hear Jesus? Why use seven brothers in a question when a two-brothers example would have made the same point? What did Jesus write in the dust with his finger? What was Mary Magdalene's "special part that would not be taken from her"? Why does it say that the "disciple whom Jesus' loved outran Peter? Why did the people rumor that the disciple whom Jesus loved could never die? What was the "word" the centurions' servants were trying to get Jesus to reveal to them that had healing powers? What did Jesus mean by use of the term 'cockcrowing'? What "sign" were the Pharisees looking for from Jesus if miracle healing did not count? When the Pahrisees spoke of "less the second mistake be worse than the first" what 'mistake' are they talking about? What made Mary Magdalene out to be a sinner? When the angel asked, "Why seek ye the living from among the dead?", who were the "dead" the angel was referring to? Since book of Acts shows apostle John and Mark to be the same person, how then did we end up with two distinct gospels from the same author? How are two 'sisters' both named Mary?
Well, Paul never even met Jesus... The Christ prophesied... a (comforter) ... not a book, not pink haired clowns, not even more prophets... A True Church to govern the job of all (religions)
"Taken up into Paradise" seems a nonsensical translation. Paradise wasn't "up", it was a square, walled garden in Eden, which is the southern plain of Iraq. Was the writer using a Greek concept of Olympian mountaintop, or is this a resurrection from Hades back up to Earth, or has the idea of a perfect place up in the clouds already evolved?
Jews nonetheless argued about beliefs (and even monotheism) long before Yeshua. Let's not present a false dichotomy. Empire specifically under Constantine made it mostly about doctrine for practical purposes and to unite Rome. Early Christians were known as "The Way" (so there's an emphasis on praxis).
Unless we have the same spiritual things happen to us as the ones that happened to the early disciples we won't know what is truth and what is a lie. Paul knew Jesus Christ. We can know Jesus in the same way. Even though I didn't believe in God or Jesus Christ, I discovered in my own life that the stuff in the Bible is true when I abandoned everything to seek the truth. I literally quit my jobs, left my home and country following a mysterious inner call. I ended up inadvertantly receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, all without any beliefs, churches, books or Christian people. People are following seducing spirits without realising it. God is real and we can all know Him if we seek Him with all our heart, mind and soul, just as Jesus said.
FYI: Paul never wrote "Jesus was a born of a virgin." He never mentions a virgin birth. Also, with regard "raised from the dead," this would have been understood in a Jewish context (Paul was a Pharisee so he believed in the resurrection. It wasn't a new/novel teaching). Resurrection was more than (just) spiritual ascension to a heavenly, purely spiritual realm -- there are physical (the senses) to it: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, etc. To borrow from scholarly wisdom: "Resurrection was the heart of the Pharisaic eschatology," and it wasn't dualistic (separation of physical/bodily and spiritual) in the least.
Can someone help me to understand please. Isn't a person's way of life based on what that person believes to be the right way to live? Maybe my mind is not mature enough but i can't seem to divorce a person's way of life from their beliefs.
This is just my opinion, but I think your way of life is based on the way you are brought up and taught, and not necessarily on your beliefs. For example; you may not believe in God, but still say grace after every meal due to a habitual routine. I still did this for a good couple of years even after shaking my faith.
The responsibility of the gospel was given to the apostles, their teaching being the foundation on which the church is built, Rev 21:14. The gospel had not yet appeared in Jesus' life in the flesh. And when he was in the flesh, he was a Jew under the law ministering to Jews under the law. Not Gentiles. Because Gentiles were not yet included in the family of God. That was to come after Jesus' death and shed blood for the ratification of a new and better covenant and which was also to include the Gentiles.
However Yesuha was , as per the Gospels & Acts 2 , demanding a anti wealth, anti PRIVATE PROPERTY “Way of Living “ on this Earth . It is easier for a Camel ( or huge thick cable ) to pass through the eye of a needle , then a rich man to enter the kingdom. You can serve the Lord OR you can serve MANNON ( Private property, material wealth , land , houses , money), not both. The Act 2 describes a primitive COMMUNIST organization of the first church of Yesuha under his Brother James the just . The Dead Sea Scroll of the Commuity Rules also demands a Communist economic organization. SOOOO…… very interesting how this hard commands are dropped like hot potato ASAP 70 AD & faith alone , not “ works” takes the drivers wheel. JOHN 3:16 is the basis for the cult(s) .
*No deeper teaching* There is no evidence I see of any deeper teaching. Paul is just pumping himself up. He was saying that Jesus would return in Paul’s lifetime. “Anyone” could read his letters? You mean anyone among the 3%? of people who could read?
Let's go over some terminologies to clear up misunderstanding. But before we do, we should always remember that, even according to the Bible, Christianity comes with a set of Apostolic Traditions. Unfortunately in the past, some tried to link Paul's particular Tradition to the disciples in Jerusalem, making you think that Jesus' disciples got Trinity from Jesus' mouth. Yet Paul himself never preached or meant Trinity even when addressing his flock with the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost" greetings, and he also acknowledged two Traditions: One for the Circumcised(Jewish Christianity) see Acts 15:22-31, and the other for the Uncircumcised(Gentile Christianity). So without further ado, let's clear up the air! New Testament: A Legal Instrument which indicates that the "Pax Romana" has fallen to God as the Dominions Of Caesar Augustus, the fake Son Of God, Have become the dominions of Christ(Pax Christus), the True Son Of God. The Gospel: Not a written text so the Gospel of Matthew, John, Marc or Luc are nothing but a misnomer. There is but one Gospel. See Acts 17:1-29 The Copyist who slapped "New Testament" on the back of our current corpus is well aware that the Vandals, the Lombards, Huns, Goth, or Wisgoth who sacked Rome did it on God's directives which ushered in a first revolution. It is therefore understood from antiquity that God gave the believers the Roman Empire as a gift so that they may have hands free to implement His Covenant(See the 7 sleepers of Ephesus... Paul's Epistles where he contrasts freedom under Caesar Augustus and Freedom under Christ(Messiah). So there are two genuine revolutions in History: The Fall Of Pagan Rome and the Fall of Pagan Mekka... The American and French Revolutions are nothing but counter-revolution to subvert God's plan for our planet. There are Anti-Christ revolutions. More in: The Council Of Jerusalem and the Partition Of Christianity Into Two Apostolic Traditions: Islam For the Circumcised and Jesuism For The Uncircumcised Catholic Trinitarians
Religious talks are basically rationalizing what's irrational and irrationalizing what's rational , both using defined and undefined terms dogmatically. Śākyamuni only taught what he understood about human nature, so did Jesus; only the people going after them, sooner or later, turned/institutionalized their great teachings into religious beliefs.
Derek, please bring back Dr. Price or at least do a hashing out with him like Neil Sendlak did with Dr. Carrier---after spending an hour calling him a clown! As long as we the people in your audience know you don't agree with his politics (I agree, they *smell* ) we won't mind if you bring him back.
I always wondered when dogma and the human sacrifice, death cult entered into Christianity. Of course it had to be Paul, the one who never even knew Jesus. He was a usurper.
The TRUE teachings of Jesus Christ is the Christ Letters, A Course In Miracles and A Course Of Love. But of course, just like Jesus said, no one has the capacity to listen to anyone or anything because they have too great a rebellious spirit and ego-drive. That is why Jesus said: "only a few have been chosen." Meaning: only those who wholeheartedly accept the TRUTH within the Christ Letters, A Course In Miracles and A Course Of Love, and live by the guidelines of the Laws of Existence within those teachings - will continue in comparative peace, protection, fulfillment of need and upliftment of spirit. Those who reject, unfortunately, will have to endure all the horrific force of their innate rebellious consciousness. This is NOT punishment from God - but a natural working out of the Law of Existence: what you carry in your mind and heart will eventually externalize in your body, life and environment. When you resist and rebel, life offers resistance to you in the fulfillment of your desires.
“These were not sets of beliefs. Doctrines. These were ways of life.”
This is so good.
Exactly
cant agree more.
Wouldn't you say that your way of life is guided by your beliefs.
All religions are a way of life based on beliefs.
Its like saying "its not a car, its a motor vehicle." Wow, genius! LOLOL
When you have to resort to word salad it means you have no facts.
Elaine Pagels is brilliant and speaks from the heart.
And not from the head.
@@TBOTSS
If you don't have a rational "head" (mind), you can't see she has one.
Nothing brilliant about BS. Gnosticism discounts old and new testament. Imagine thinking that was credible. Do not listen to this woman.
yes, but most importantly, she speaks from her brilliant mind!
There’s a lot of practicing Catholics who disagree with the Church. I always wondered why they remain Catholic if they don’t align with the beliefs. Realizing that it’s more about the practice and the belonging rather than the belief really changed my outlook.
Including me. I remain within the Catholic church, despite my disagreement with many teachings, dogmas, and practices, mostly because I respect the tradition and my communities. As long they don't push me to the edges, I am fine staying within the church.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 Thats the silliest thing I've read today.
@@eurech You are nonsense.
I wonder about that too but also from a psychological perspective. So far my hypothesis is that they don't really have faith in Jesus, and are not really interested in the teachings of Jesus, and totally not interested in having to live their lives confined and or handicapped by it especially if it entails any kind of suffering.
Popular Christianity is primarily focused on what scholars think and say and on using a certain pre-selected set of bible passages to either defend or appose it. This video itself is the prime example of the shallowness to Jesus' teachings. It delivered little to nothing about "The True Teachings of Jesus". That was just click bait to promote a book about what another scholar thinks.
This system of "which scholars to believe" demonstrates the total lack of any regard for what Jesus actully taught; " At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
But how can they believe when they desire the praise and acceptance from men rather than acceptance from God?
Elaine Pagels is one of my favorite guests
That's because you're lost
@@jasonbourne5142 you're lost In fever dream of Roman fantasy literature
100% agree.
Popular Religion = Adherence to social practices
Heartfelt Religion = Feeling and understanding the world, love and living in peaceful joy.
And Connecting to our Creator and Guides.
@@carolsaia7401 ^ first schism.
Atheisim = Feeling and understanding the world, love and living in peaceful joy.
How do *you*(and*Only* *you*) define religion
You have not the faintest idea? *that*you are about to demonstrate.
I absolutely love the way she speaks.
I think we need a playlist for Dr. Pagels, unless I'm just not seeing it.
Excellent, I love Dr. Pagels. She is much more nuanced in her understandings of Jesus's teachings, gnosis/mysticism, and early Christian beliefs (as compared to Ehrman - "dead is dead!" I'm sorry, but some scholars don't have any sense at all for mysticism, the direct experience of the divine/spiritual). Beliefs weren't all black and white. And the fact that Jesus's esoteric teachings weren't written down at the time (vs. parables for the masses) is part of the reason why there were so many different beliefs early on. The milk teachings became orthodox Christianity, and the secret esoteric teachings went in the other direction and were proclaimed heresy by the orthodoxy. There were early Christian (and early Jewish) mystics, and I'm pretty sure Jesus was one. Deeper esoteric teachings weren't originally written down, they were only oral, and only shared with those who were more mature in spiritual understanding. Yes, meat and milk teachings. You don't teach calculus or quantum physics to a kindergartner. I don't know why most mainstream Christians get upset at the idea that Jesus taught secretly to more advanced disciples. They are sure he meant his teachings to be fore everyone, there can't be "secret teachings"! But even Jesus warned against casting pearls before swine - the pearl being a symbol of divine wisdom or gnosis.
Such an honor to listen to Dr Pagels she has inspired me for 35 years
😂😂😂😂😂😂THE SATAN SYSTEM ZOMBIE BOTS, "YOU'LL CRACK ME UP"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Know Thyself. That is the true teaching.
Brilliant. Know what you really are.
Thanks Derek for another great interview with Dr. Elaine Pagels. She is awesome.
Thank you Derek, Elaine Pagels is one of my favs. Looking forward to indulging after work.
I read 3 of Elaine's books. Wonderful author and scholar.
Props to Derek for literate, relevant questions, and allowing the scholar to speak with little interruption.
I appreciate Elaine Pagels so much! I read this book when it was published and again this year. I use what I learned from reading it often when talking about any of the Abrahamic traditions.
Thank you Dr. PAGELS, YOU ARE A WONDERFUL TEACHER ❤
I get a sense of Jesus saying, no one comes to the Father but by me, when I feel that He is saying, become one with me as I and the Father are one. We step into eternity in His light. His light is the life and the light encompasses us as one person in unity with Him. Everything is God. God is all, and we are a part of that all. When the 2 become 1 there is only 1.
Thank you Derek , by offering to us the opportunity with this great discussion ... To discovering the most kind, recomforting and ... Sagacious PhD scholar you talked to‼
And the thing who made me wrote this little thing is ... the bright flamme of intelligence who shine
in her beautiful gray blue eyes💘
I think in 1st Corinthians, Paul is definitely talking about the gnostic teachings. He’s saying the people weren’t ready for that level of consciousness but they found a way to get them closer to source all the same.
Paul is Hindu Pala. Phallus
Love your videos Derek but this video title is pretty misleading. It should read what did [some of] the earliest Christians believe in? Not Jesus himself.
Thanks.I thought it was just me that thought this.Actually in my view the video was more about what St Pauls version of Christianity was. Paul had never met Jesus & would have never read the Gospels as Paul died 63ad before the Gospels were even written. Paul thought that people could be saved by faith alone. But Jesus taught that to obtain salvation people had to love their creator & fellow human beings as themselves, care for those in need & not judge others. All relatively simple things that anyone can do, not just Christians !
Very good to hear, Outloud----as anyone who has not stepped into the steamy dualistic pile of belief---intuits and knows that the Gospel has nothing to do with be"lie"f, they fully understand that belief is a cultic step down from the Realization That Is The Gospel....similar to The Tao.
Yes, I've seen similarities to the Tao as well. - The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Wow, Elaine, well presented. You touched upon something few people realize, that the narrow gate is within oneself.
Jesus is always speaking about the hidden in hidden language. He uses parables and says himself that his language is figurative.
Beautifully presented.
Dr. Elaine Pagel is an honest-to-goodness lover of truth ..... Her exposition of some "missing links" in the Holy Scriptures, as results of timely discoveries, are puzzle bricks that are instrumental for deep understanding of "true gospels"...... I believe such an exposition is aimed to educate rather than to eradicate.
How the hell is a guy ( paul ) the authority on a jesus that he never met....yall funny
Thank you! Paul was an apostate lying sack-O-mess! Modern day "Christianity" is really Paulianity. (aka. idolatry)
The teachings of the disciples were mainly about Jesus Christ being the Son of God, his death and resurrection and that Salvation is found through him.
Did Paul contradict any of these teachings?
@@edward1412 The entire New Testament is a contradiction to the Old Testament. Spend some time examining the four accounts of Paul's "Damascus road experience", and try to match up the stated "facts" in each account; no two of them match up. Spend some time examining the "stated facts" surrounding the crucifixion and resurrection accounts, and you will find irreconcilable contradictions. The standard churchianity drivel that they are just four differing viewpoints of the same event is hogwash; that would be like four witnesses of an auto accident and one says it happened at noon, and one says it happened at 5 pm, one says it was between a VW and a pickup, and one says it was between a train and a big rig. Ridiculousness.
@@edward1412 Yes Paul did. Jesus said by works and Paul says by faith alone. Paul said Jesus was first of the risen dead not knowing that Lazarus was risen before Jesus. Book of acts shows Paul is a fraud, that the Apostles did not beleive his conversion story.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
3:28 -- Christianity did not make everything about belief because there were so many different interpretations. Anyone who reads the gospels knows that Jesus was concerned with what is in one's heart, not what legal rules they were enacting.
Amazing explanation.
Thanks for this wonderful video. I read "The Gnostic Gospels" when it was a new book, and count it as an important moment in my personal growth. Growing up nominally Christian in a mixed family and neighborhood, I had long realized at some level the distinction between Christianity and Judaism as Dr. Pagels describes it, but I have never been able to put it into words so eloquently. However, I do think you are painting Christianity with a bit too broad of a brush - I feel that the different modern varieties of Catholicism are certainly Christian, but are indeed intended to be a way of life rather than simply a belief. My understanding is that most Catholic thinkers take a "Jamesian" approach to salvation, where faith without works isn't enough.
Bearing in mind that Paul is indeed our earliest "Christian" writer, I have to wonder just how useful he can be when attempting to get at what Jesus himself may have taught. What he intended. He did after all go to the cross as a Jew who spoke to Jews.
You can look at the gospel of Tomas, that are not in Mt, Lk, Mk, that appear to be more primitive.
You can look at the heresiologies against the ebionites.
The epistle of James (less the two oassages referring to the christ)
The Q+ that DRM has published.
The problem is that we only got 7 letters of Paul and in them it's mostly primitive Christian theology like in the gospel of Mark.
@@arnulfo267 A good point. I am aware of this and (perhaps weakly) making a case for temporarily ignoring Paul altogether when trying to determine what Jesus may have said and intended and not necessarily what Christian doctrine (which very much relies on Paul) was/is trying to teach. Still a difficult exercise but in this context perhaps useful?
Certainly Paul is required when attempting to understand what the post Jesus Jerusalem Church was about through his arguments against them.
@@Darisiabgal7573 I think you made my point better than I did.
Paul is an early writer and theologian, but bear in mind that there was a 'church' in existence for him to persecute. Therefore, Paul is irrelevant to the Origen of the church.
Thank you for this enlightening interview, but I'm puzzled by the title. It seems that this is about the teaching of Paul.
Good catch. I find this bait and switch all too often. From my reading of Acts, Paul was a fraud who the Apostles never beleived his conversion story.
To answer that question is rather more complex. The character of Jesus was already based on previous stories before and the gospel writers brought that same character in, so I don’t think the gospel writers had in mind about a true teaching as they were trying to be consistent with the character from previous stories
I agree. People are so fixated on changing "there could have been an historical person" to "there MUST have been an historical person, and I personally know what he was like" that they forget that, whether or not there was an original teacher (or teachers), Jesus in the gospels is just a character. The gospel writers obviously know this, and you can tell by the way they treat the character. They freely embellish him and file off the parts they don't like. If he had been a real person whom people had actually experienced, they wouldn't have been quite so cavalier about making up stories and quotations for him that contradicted the earlier stories and quotations.
Edward Dodge has written a great book detailing how religious practices evolved. While his work is primarily concerning polytheistic practices, he writes about how emerging "belief systems" incorporated previous traditions (tweaked) and how we ended up with monotheism using all the stories from polytheistic systems of belief. Edward Dodge - A History of the Goddesses from the Ice Age to the Bible, 2021.
I'm curious...Derek, what do you believe?
@@Cat_Woods I always get annoyed when scholars make no distinctions between the Story and History,
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I remember when "The Gnostic Gospels" first came out. Elaine Pagles is always so interesting. For some reason when I think of her I also think of Karen Armstrong, though she tends to write about Islam.
A fascinating explanation. It is important to understand that Dr Pagels is speaking of what others believed and not of her own beliefs or of facts.
In my view, Paul, who was creating, or at least structuring, a new religion was dealing with gentiles who were religiously intelligent and familiar with a number of different religions and belief systems in the melting pot of the empire. Because of this, he had to be wary of making personal claims that might not be believed and would thus undermine his work. I think he was a very smart individual who understood just how much to say to people to lead them to his new invented religion without making wild claims.
How many Christians can read their scriptures in the language they are written? They read the Bible in translations which makes it a second-hand religion, all translations of any literature are second-hand. How do you expect Asians and Africans to appreciate Greco-Roman-Judio-Christian narratives? They just follow Christian beliefs told to them by missionaries.
Wonderful interview with Dr. Pagels. i Love her book Why Religion? She is an amazing person. Have you ever interviewed Amy-Jill Levine or Luke Timothy Johnson? Thank you, Mr. Derek
True religion is neither about having beliefs or behaviour.
It is about recognising what is true and real.
" you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free " John 8 : 31
Belief is guesswork, not knowledge.
The fact is that we do not really know who we are, and what life is.
jesus ' greatest command is to worship our lord the one god only' today only muslims obey Jesus greatest command
@@etzelkaplan9677 Not quite.
He said " to LOVE God with all your heart, AND to LOVE your brothers.
@@kimbirch1202 Jesus abrogated his peaceful verses with verses of hate and violence. ' go buy swords kill my deniers. ' attacked rabbis in temple with a whip made of chord '
@@etzelkaplan9677 He also said " the Kingdom of God is WITHIN you "
There is no external being called God, up there in the sky, or some place called heaven or paradise.
That is for children and half wits only
@@kimbirch1202 yes god is in the believers heart
Very interesting video.
Thank you
Religions were - laws.
People today are mistaken in comparing Christianity to Judaism, or Hinduism to Islam, etc.
Everybody should compare their own (their family's, their country's) religion with - the legal system of their country and the international laws.
Like, text compared to text.
All books of your religion on one side, vs all books of all laws that sum up the entirety of your country's Law.
Everybody should be made aware of this as an early as in a mandatory highschool curriculum, i.e. a subject matter.
Young people should be made to compare, for example, how domestic violence is treated in the religious books of the religion they feel they adhere to, vs how it is by treated in the texts of the Family Law, Criminal Code, etc.
Everyone should be made aware how many things and situations are not even mentioned, let alone treated, in old religious books, whereas they are thoroughly dealt with in the thousands upon thousands of law texts we are lucky to have today.
And then they should be asked the question, if you had to live in a social system where everyone's lives are managed by either one or the other group of books, which group of books would you choose, which set of rules would you rather want to live under?
Hm, ladies?
Sexual harassment at work? Spousal rape? Domestic violence? Child abuse? Who gets the kids after a divorce?
NONE of it was ever dealt with in the religious laws.
Hm, guys? Punishment for not accepting the opressor's religion? Cutting off the hand if you steal an apple because you're hungry? The non-existent social assistance cheques? Social housing? Veterans' rights? Human rights?
Chose carefully.
As a former muslim,this topic has always intrigued me.
Are you a THEIST? 🤔
If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓
@@TheWorldTeacher I am an agnostic/atheist.
Since this video doesn't actually address that question, although I love Derek's videos, my two cents are that I agree with the majority scholarly opinion that Jesus was a lenient, Torah-observant, apocalyptic messianic Jew.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
As a former Catholic (alterboy from 6th to 8th grade) who is now Muslim, this topic has always intrigued me as well.
Yes. Bring him back.
Let's bury him
In other words Paul's letter to the Corinthians were we call "Expedient Means" in Buddhism. -Guitar Eddie
Very interesting speaker and also has a beautiful voice.
She’s amazing
*“I am not a liar”*
That doesn’t mean anyone accused him. People have said that to me without having been accused - they were bullshitting
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I wonder why the interviewer is fixated on Paul, paul, paul in his many interviews with academics. What about what Jesus said? Paul is not higher than Jesus. Paul sayings and Jesus sayings are not on the same level and equivalent.
So does Dr. Pagels get the sense that in some way Paul was a Gnostic Christian? Or is it just that the secret teachings of Paul leant themselves towards gnostic interpretation? Or something else?
Amazing interview Derek, you and Dr. Pagels are awesome!!
Christianity is about a RELATIONSHIP with God. Jesus spoke often against the ‘religion’ of the Pharisees. JESUS OPENED THE WAY FOR EVERY PERSON TO HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
Dietary restrictions and things along those lines were basically ‘abolished’. ‘Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial’.
*BELIEF is FUNDAMENTAL.*
You don’t believe AFTER you’ve been convinced of it’s authenticity, you believe because Jesus is the Lord. What follows is through the RELATIONSHIP - prayer, corporate worship, good works, etc. - these things ARE the life of a BELIEVER.
Faith INCREASES through BELIEF in that life.
I also came from Fundamentalism. I became Catholic because if Christianity is going to be true in the way we understand what is orthodoxy, you cannot reject the Catholic Church. Fundamentalists, though, do not study historical Christianity because it's such a threat.
Yes, most (if not all) religions are fundamentally about social control, establishing rules and guidelines on behaviors and defining social relationships. Religious tradition originated earlier than what we think of as secular legal structures. They are closely related. But religion adds an element of cosmology to the mix, whereas secular laws are _limited_ to behavior and social relationships. So there is always an element of belief in religion, even though it may not be the primary focus of most adherents. The social rules and guidelines are seen to have their origin in the cosmology of the religion.
It's not that there are things you are not "supposed" to say, but you cannot put the mysteries into words. "Let the dead bury the dead" is not about physical death but spiritual deadness. "Resurrected from the dead", they definitely ascend to the highest heavens, but then they return to live the next day... and then ascend to the highest again... Remember Paul's "I die daily"? He died to the ego daily and ascended to the highest heaven - the top of the mountain, for Moses, etc...
Have we considered bringing on Richard Rhor?
I already know the answer - know one really knows.
Right. It is not about orthodoxy but orthopraxy.
I love too much this woman ❤
Why is a Muslim not eat pork? Its not just because their culture does not allow them to? Why is a Muslim not drink alcohol?
Why is in Judaism they kept or keep the law? All these groups are doing these rituals, or keep these laws because they believe that God/Yahweh/Allah demands that. I am a bit lost on what Dr Pagels is saying, and it could be my fault.
Yeah, and they can marry a child and have sex with such a child when she gets her first period.
Deception of it's finest.
Until now I was worried about if the inner teachings of Jesus were lost forever. Now I'm worried about the loss of the inner teachings of Paul!
The interesting thing about this subject is if you look at Hebrew laws. The behaviors bannered in the Old Testament were high-risk behaviors that exposed the community to illness, allergens, and disease.
Take no God before me, the tern religious ecstasy had a different meaning when services often resulted in orgies. STDs were a big problem back then. Interestingly enough homosexuality is not banned in the bible but sodomy in many forms is banned.
In short, the laws gave the Hebrew people an advantage over their neighbors. Laws made sure the food supply was safe, crop rotation so the soil was cared for, and laws of self-isolation prevented pandemics. The ban on witches was more about the "cures" they sold, in other words, conmen.
When I realized that God had given the Jews the tools to prosper if followed and they caused their own punishment when they didn't. This suggests that God may not be that into us and doesn't put much thought into us at all. I personally see it as a beautiful symmetry with the way the universe is designed.
It is humbling to realize the vastness of a universe-creating force that is God and how small and petty mankind is to believe that the universe was created for us. Our ministers act as if God is the servant and we the masters.
I’d guess the focus on belief is because Paul was preaching to Gentiles and he didn’t want them to just adopt Jewish spiritual practice.
Hey bro been watching some of this content from time to time but i gotta ask how us kurt keeping
Religion is just the particular "club" that one chooses to participate in for practicing their spirituality and encountering glimpses of the godhead. There is something valid about those "Gnostic" scriptures that were hidden from humanity for so many years.
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@perazdera2827 Jerimiah prophesy calls for a 2nd coming.
@@perazdera2827 Not interested in hearing from that fraud Paul nor from any of those counterfeit epistles. You Paulians don't seem to know how to read what it says in the Book of Acts.
@@perazdera2827 Have you read any of the translations of the Nag Hammadi library?
@@perazdera2827 I'm sorry to hear that you have not read any of the Nag Hammadi library or other Gnostic literature. Much of it, but not all, correlates to Jesus and aspects of the Bible. There is The Gospel of Phillip, The Sophia of Jesus Christ, The Prayer of the Apostle Paul, The Dialogue of the Savoir, The Gospel of Mary and so many other ancient scriptures and codices. I do find it humorous and saddening that you judge the Gnostic texts without having studied any of them. I hope you will take the time to read them.
Christianity is based on the beliefs of St Paul, rather than the teachings of Jesus.
How can God judged anyone as guilty of sin, when Jesus teaches " God judges no one " John 5 : 22 ?
The huge error of Christianity was to try and reconcile the teachings of Jesus with Old Testament fairytales.
Most so - called religious folk have simply been brainwashed by corrupt Church leaders.
The blind leading the blind
I left church for islam/monothiesm 2002
Well said.
My thoughts exactly.
What is belief but more transcendental insight.Belief got us through dark ages battered and crippled but still alive why are we still clinging to a defective process when knowledge has been proven to be more reliable and enjoys more trust and respect beliefs ever will . Knowledge of Jesus Christ and his plans for man readily available and not so complex we have to believe a stranger's word
It doesnt make sense to adhere to beliefs just because it was written and taught, especially when so many different groups contradicted each other. Which one do you follow? To have an experience with God and the divine is something else entirely, and thats what matters. Its just not something many people experience, and many people dont know how to have a mystical experience...then the question of belief may be - how do you know a mystical was real, and does it matter if it is or isnt?
Read on down another five verses following the passage Professor Pagels mentions at 7:00 (1 Corinthians 1-3) where Paul is speaking of wisdom reserved for the spiritually mature. At 1 Corinthians 2:9 Paul declares: “But as it is written 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.'” The only place this is written is in Saying #17 of the Gospel of Thomas! Except for having deleted one line, it's an exact quote of the Thomas text. These pieces all fit wonderfully too, because the Gospel of Thomas teaches about life in the present and how by coming to know oneself, one finds spiritual “rest”. There is no mention of beliefs. There is no resurrection or coming judgment. It is a simple teaching of surrender. The way Paul talks in 1 Corinthians contributes to my conclusion that Paul had a copy of the Gospel of Thomas. In fact, I'm prepared to argue that the synoptics and the source document Quelle all drew from it. It's my operating hypothesis for now, and I very much welcome arguments against this idea as the evidence I encounter continues to appear to support my case. How could I possibly be right about this??!! Thanks to any for giving my thoughts a ponder. Peace.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
I get the feeling Elaine, James and Bart dance around these topics.
Basically, the old testament is about instructions on how to live in the world, a worldly way.with each other The new testament is about the waited for Messiah come to mankind to raise mankind to a higher "spirutual" existence with God or rather God with mankind. The Messiah established, in the Apostles, a visible Church on earth with God Himself in the Person of The Holy Spirit dwelling, living, existing within the faithful.
It’s very interesting that when Elaine speaks about the recently deceased communicating with the living, she uses a widow as an example. Elaine is a widow; her first husband died tragically. I wonder if she is speaking from personal experience
I personally believe it could be. From my understanding, Gnosis can only truly be learned from personal experience, not really as a practice.
Can someone please put summary chapter links for this? Thank you
The overwhelming number of people who have and do practice religion, do so without the notion of "belief". It was not present in polytheistic traditions of Greece, Europe and Mesopotamia. It is not present in most of the traditional religions of Asia either. It seems to have appeared in Christianity, some time after the death of the teacher. I'm guessing what happened is that the apostles were not very good teachers...the stories & parables they repeated to THEIR disciples didn't catch on, so they simply said: "OK OK...You can't really understand what Jesus was saying but if you believe in him that's good enough". Then it became all about belief in the Teacher rather than his teachings.
It is not about beliefs it about what you believe you should do, which is not the same thing ?
good , but also Paul was making a point in 1 cor - on the foolishness of the gospel that that is the perception to those who are perishing . it has to appear foolish because the cross as Martin Hengel says was the symbol of death in ignomitiy and shame . he had to start the letter that way to tell them that there so that they will not expect any praise from the world .
Does Elaine Pagels know of the Aquirium Gospel and Jesus went to India
You should bring back Robert Price. I know you had a falling out, but I have listened to the podcast that you took offense to and you blew it way out of proportion. Besides, part of being an atheist means your a rationalist and that means we don't always agree on everything. That doesn't mean we ban them like dogmatic religious folks do. Instead you should dedicate a show on just hashing out with him what issues you had offense with. Show religious folks that we are not as intolerant as they are, but discuss our issues in honest dialogue. A truly heartfelt and thought provoking and emotionally charged discussion between the both of you may become one of the best shows you ever did...the only question is, do you have the integrity and mental fortitude to do so? I honestly hope you would. Would you want your audience to cast you aside so readily because of a comment or opinion you held? Then don't be a hypocrite and bring him back.
I just reread what I posted and my apologies for being so scathing in comment. I didn't intend to be so biting. So please forgive that aspect, but do consider the implications of what is being said. Thank you
In my heart, I still believe Derek loves Dr. Bob. 💯
@@FictionMission my money's down right beside that bet. Humans aren't so black and white, and besides, one doesn't display such emotion to those things/people they don't care about.
So Derek, I think enough time has passed, life is bloody short dear sir. I know others want to hear ever more of what Dr. Price has to offer, and that is what your purpose is, isn't it? The dissemination of actual information, right? So, let's pull up our pants, stiffen our chins, and comport ourselves like the people we most would like to emulate: those that are rational, fair, open, and ready to discuss, understand and forgive. Have a show where you both just hash this out, and put it behind you. We listeners would truly appreciate such a display of magnanimity on both sides. You've come a long way from where you started, kudos, now take the next proper step dear sir. 😊
Derek is not being hypocritical. His content has improved (in my assessment) after that guy is no longer getting new input here. Regardless of the reasons he is no longer being featured in new videos. If that guy cannot put out his own videos or get invited to the thousands of other platforms available, it is not Derek's fault the guy has disappeared from our radar screen. Derek not inviting him on does not block the guy from expressing himself.
@@fredericdouglas3574 Dear sir, I am sorry if I did not more clearly indicate the point of being hypocritical were he not to like the idea of someone tuning him out because of one point of contention they had with him. If so, then such would apply.
As for Robert Price getting air time, that was not at all my argument. My argument dealt mostly with mending fences such as to continue what I thought was a most wonderful relationship. They grew together, and had a wonderful rapport together. And yes, I would like to see him occasionally on again; is there something wrong with that?
Paul might - might have taken the right tact in the 1st century in saying he had to start with "milk" in teaching people back then about Christ's words and actions. But, I think not.
It's now 2,000 years later and preachers and ministers are still delivering sermon after sermon after sermon on Paul and NOT speaking anything explaining the meanings behind Christ’s teachings and actions.
This is not an esoteric point I'm making, because within Christ’s words and deeds is everything mankind needs to realize the kingdom of heaven on earth. 2,000 years ago Christ said, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." But, what happened in the meantime between then and now?
Beginning with Constantine I monarchies dominated Christianity and the history of rule by divine right was established that led to thousands of years of wars in which millions of people lost their lives.
But, what did Christ say? "I have come that you may have life and have it in abundance." The only people who had life in abundance were so-called royalty who professed to rule by divine right while enriching and empowering themselves in ways diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING Christ taught.
"He who would be first among you must be your servant. He who would be your king must be your slave just as the Son of Man has come not to be served, but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many."
To my ears those words backed by Christ’s willing persecution and His resurrection that followed are perfectly clear. But, virtually no one who was taught about Christ beginning with Paul and for the next 1,200 years knew of those words unless they could read Greek, or Latin and could afford to own a Bible. Books were luxuries most people could not afford and couldn't read if they could afford them.
Why is this important now? Kings are a thing of the past. Right? Just before he invaded Ukraine Putin compared himself to Peter the Great. Peter the Great tortured and murdered his own son. Putin has been torturing and murdering millions of Ukrainians, including tens of thousands of children. So, the inherited legacy of rule by tyrants who for 1,500 years pretended to rule by divine right is still inflicting pain, suffering, and death today.
And Christ’s actual teachings are still taking a backseat in most churches to endless sermons on Paul and the old Testament.
Imo, we who believe in Christ’s words need to become aware of how the history of Christianity unfolded over the past 2,000 years and how we today can change our lives in ways that will realize the kingdom of heaven on earth as Christ taught.
There's the esoteric and exoteric teachings, for public and for the select few..
Religion. From Latin, "re ligare", reestablishing connection with Gods. In antiquity religion was a way to explain the world and connect with ancestors and deities. Obedience and dogma were not part of the way of life. People tried to make gods "happy" and priests were their guides, but no one was punished by heresy; interpretation was possible. The Catholic Church introduced infallibility, so nothing could be questioned and obedience was enforced. An institution that would dominate the world had been born.
How do 2 blind men follow Jesus? How does a deaf man hear Jesus? Why use seven brothers in a question when a two-brothers example would have made the same point? What did Jesus write in the dust with his finger? What was Mary Magdalene's "special part that would not be taken from her"? Why does it say that the "disciple whom Jesus' loved outran Peter? Why did the people rumor that the disciple whom Jesus loved could never die? What was the "word" the centurions' servants were trying to get Jesus to reveal to them that had healing powers? What did Jesus mean by use of the term 'cockcrowing'? What "sign" were the Pharisees looking for from Jesus if miracle healing did not count? When the Pahrisees spoke of "less the second mistake be worse than the first" what 'mistake' are they talking about? What made Mary Magdalene out to be a sinner? When the angel asked, "Why seek ye the living from among the dead?", who were the "dead" the angel was referring to? Since book of Acts shows apostle John and Mark to be the same person, how then did we end up with two distinct gospels from the same author? How are two 'sisters' both named Mary?
Whatever the Vatican is willing to endorse and to have canonized
Money fame power Vatican
What are these secret teachings of the Gospel that Paul taught to the mature Christians?
Well, Paul never even met Jesus...
The Christ prophesied... a (comforter) ... not a book, not pink haired clowns, not even more prophets... A True Church to govern the job of all (religions)
So, is it, "how ritualistic are you?"
"Taken up into Paradise" seems a nonsensical translation. Paradise wasn't "up", it was a square, walled garden in Eden, which is the southern plain of Iraq. Was the writer using a Greek concept of Olympian mountaintop, or is this a resurrection from Hades back up to Earth, or has the idea of a perfect place up in the clouds already evolved?
Hello there question for Mr Derek if you know’ where were Black people or Africans and the way of their lives? Thank you so much.
Adam was a black man.
Jews nonetheless argued about beliefs (and even monotheism) long before Yeshua. Let's not present a false dichotomy.
Empire specifically under Constantine made it mostly about doctrine for practical purposes and to unite Rome. Early Christians were known as "The Way" (so there's an emphasis on praxis).
Paul is NOT going to tell because he DiD NOT know Jesus
Paul is fiction
@@roddyboethius1722 whatever Paul is it's not fictitious
Unless we have the same spiritual things happen to us as the ones that happened to the early disciples we won't know what is truth and what is a lie.
Paul knew Jesus Christ. We can know Jesus in the same way. Even though I didn't believe in God or Jesus Christ, I discovered in my own life that the stuff in the Bible is true when I abandoned everything to seek the truth. I literally quit my jobs, left my home and country following a mysterious inner call. I ended up inadvertantly receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, all without any beliefs, churches, books or Christian people.
People are following seducing spirits without realising it. God is real and we can all know Him if we seek Him with all our heart, mind and soul, just as Jesus said.
@@roddyboethius1722Paul is a deceiver
@@munumooabsolutely true. God Bless you
FYI: Paul never wrote "Jesus was a born of a virgin." He never mentions a virgin birth. Also, with regard "raised from the dead," this would have been understood in a Jewish context (Paul was a Pharisee so he believed in the resurrection. It wasn't a new/novel teaching). Resurrection was more than (just) spiritual ascension to a heavenly, purely spiritual realm -- there are physical (the senses) to it: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, etc. To borrow from scholarly wisdom: "Resurrection was the heart of the Pharisaic eschatology," and it wasn't dualistic (separation of physical/bodily and spiritual) in the least.
so being "spiritually mature" essentially means "you have been groomed" to accept our "mystical beliefs" that have no logical persuasion.
Ms. Elaine Pagel: Muslims are obligated to pray at least 5 times a day, not 4 times. You are welcome to come and join the believers in Islam. Peace
Can someone help me to understand please. Isn't a person's way of life based on what that person believes to be the right way to live? Maybe my mind is not mature enough but i can't seem to divorce a person's way of life from their beliefs.
This is just my opinion, but I think your way of life is based on the way you are brought up and taught, and not necessarily on your beliefs. For example; you may not believe in God, but still say grace after every meal due to a habitual routine. I still did this for a good couple of years even after shaking my faith.
I wonder if, when I get my new body, I will be able to join the swimming team and wear Speedos again like I did fifty years ago.
New body would be a spiritual body, not a physical body.
This was a bad title; it should have been titles "What were the true teachings of Paul".
The responsibility of the gospel was given to the apostles, their teaching being the foundation on which the church is built, Rev 21:14. The gospel had not yet appeared in Jesus' life in the flesh. And when he was in the flesh, he was a Jew under the law ministering to Jews under the law. Not Gentiles. Because Gentiles were not yet included in the family of God. That was to come after Jesus' death and shed blood for the ratification of a new and better covenant and which was also to include the Gentiles.
However Yesuha was , as per the Gospels & Acts 2 , demanding a anti wealth, anti PRIVATE PROPERTY “Way of Living “ on this Earth . It is easier for a Camel ( or huge thick cable ) to pass through the eye of a needle , then a rich man to enter the kingdom. You can serve the Lord OR you can serve MANNON ( Private property, material wealth , land , houses , money), not both.
The Act 2 describes a primitive COMMUNIST organization of the first church of Yesuha under his Brother James the just . The Dead Sea Scroll of the Commuity Rules also demands a Communist economic organization. SOOOO…… very interesting how this hard commands are dropped like hot potato ASAP 70 AD & faith alone , not “ works” takes the drivers wheel.
JOHN 3:16 is the basis for the cult(s) .
So you can be ethnically Mormon?
Paul actually never mentions a virgin birth.
Pliny the Younger was Paul. So was Fabius Justus Calpurnius Piso
Muslims worship the almighty creator 5 not 4 times a day
*No deeper teaching*
There is no evidence I see of any deeper teaching. Paul is just pumping himself up.
He was saying that Jesus would return in Paul’s lifetime.
“Anyone” could read his letters? You mean anyone among the 3%? of people who could read?
Let's go over some terminologies to clear up misunderstanding. But before we do, we should always remember that, even according to the Bible, Christianity comes with a set of Apostolic Traditions. Unfortunately in the past, some tried to link Paul's particular Tradition to the disciples in Jerusalem, making you think that Jesus' disciples got Trinity from Jesus' mouth. Yet Paul himself never preached or meant Trinity even when addressing his flock with the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost" greetings, and he also acknowledged two Traditions: One for the Circumcised(Jewish Christianity) see Acts 15:22-31, and the other for the Uncircumcised(Gentile Christianity).
So without further ado, let's clear up the air!
New Testament: A Legal Instrument which indicates that the "Pax Romana" has fallen to God as the Dominions Of Caesar Augustus, the fake Son Of God, Have become the dominions of Christ(Pax Christus), the True Son Of God.
The Gospel: Not a written text so the Gospel of Matthew, John, Marc or Luc are nothing but a misnomer.
There is but one Gospel. See Acts 17:1-29
The Copyist who slapped "New Testament" on the back of our current corpus is well aware that the Vandals, the Lombards, Huns, Goth, or Wisgoth who sacked Rome did it on God's directives which ushered in a first revolution.
It is therefore understood from antiquity that God gave the believers the Roman Empire as a gift so that they may have hands free to implement His Covenant(See the 7 sleepers of Ephesus... Paul's Epistles where he contrasts freedom under Caesar Augustus and Freedom under Christ(Messiah).
So there are two genuine revolutions in History: The Fall Of Pagan Rome and the Fall of Pagan Mekka...
The American and French Revolutions are nothing but counter-revolution to subvert God's plan for our planet. There are Anti-Christ revolutions.
More in:
The Council Of Jerusalem and the Partition Of Christianity Into Two Apostolic Traditions: Islam For the Circumcised and Jesuism For The Uncircumcised Catholic Trinitarians
Religious talks are basically rationalizing what's irrational and irrationalizing what's rational , both using defined and undefined terms dogmatically. Śākyamuni only taught what he understood about human nature, so did Jesus; only the people going after them, sooner or later, turned/institutionalized their great teachings into religious beliefs.
Derek, please bring back Dr. Price or at least do a hashing out with him like Neil Sendlak did with Dr. Carrier---after spending an hour calling him a clown!
As long as we the people in your audience know you don't agree with his politics (I agree, they *smell* ) we won't mind if you bring him back.
I always wondered when dogma and the human sacrifice, death cult entered into Christianity. Of course it had to be Paul, the one who never even knew Jesus.
He was a usurper.
The TRUE teachings of Jesus Christ is the Christ Letters, A Course In Miracles and A Course Of Love. But of course, just like Jesus said, no one has the capacity to listen to anyone or anything because they have too great a rebellious spirit and ego-drive. That is why Jesus said: "only a few have been chosen." Meaning: only those who wholeheartedly accept the TRUTH within the Christ Letters, A Course In Miracles and A Course Of Love, and live by the guidelines of the Laws of Existence within those teachings - will continue in comparative peace, protection, fulfillment of need and upliftment of spirit. Those who reject, unfortunately, will have to endure all the horrific force of their innate rebellious consciousness. This is NOT punishment from God - but a natural working out of the Law of Existence: what you carry in your mind and heart will eventually externalize in your body, life and environment. When you resist and rebel, life offers resistance to you in the fulfillment of your desires.