Why are you agitated about the Age of Hazrat Aysha?
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- www.yanabi.com - Reason can attain the sense of justice and equity in a specific situation but you cannot argue that your decision today is morally binding for all human beings in all places and times. Professor Jonathan Brown
good explanation.....May ALLAH SWT increase your imaan and knowledge ameen summa ameen
...Mut'ah boy
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133
In-book reference : Book 67, Hadith 69
I've just found this brother and mashallah he is fantastic.May Allah guide the ignorant and keep the guided on the straight path.
......Mut'ah boy
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133
In-book reference : Book 67, Hadith 69
Joseph married Mary when she was 12 but why aren't Christians calling him a pervert and saying foul things about him hypocrites.
So Islam continues to gets its justification from its big brother religion Christianity . Islam behaves like a little brother who wants all his elder brothers toys.
Says who? Even if it were true, that doesn't make it right. At least he didn't enslave and rape her.
Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)
Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
"Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be you have the upper hand, for Allah is with you," Quran (47:35)
Ibn Ishaq (508) "Whenever they heard of a Meccan caravan setting out for Syria, they intercepted it, and killed everyone they could get a hold of. They tore every caravan to pieces and took the goods."
In reality, age is an arbitrary construct that is used in society to draw assumptions about when a person is ready to engage in certain activities, how emotionally and intellectually developed they have become, and what their overall level of maturity is. However, physical and mental development, as well as emotional maturity, can differ significantly within a single age group especially in different societies, era and time.
Usad Rebs ?????????????? Your post would have just as much relevance to what they typed if their comment was entirely about Corsican knife fighters.
....Mut'ah boy
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133
In-book reference : Book 67, Hadith 69
best pedo argument ever, hope it work in court if they get you, personaly i don't think it's great to F a 9 year child, even if the child was prepared to love you and do it like in any sect...
1:18 I heard Adnan Rashid in the audience.
That's him
The prophet himself stated that marrying someone without consent is not allowed.
Also Mary who was 12 was married to Joseph who was 90 years old, she gave birth at the age of 13.
Again when you think of it contextually people lived very different lives in the past. Norms continue to evolve, some things today aren't really acceptable, but they were completely ok in the past.
It doesn't mean you are right, and everyone else is wrong.
Also Mary who was 12 was married to Joseph who was 90 years old, she gave birth at the age of 13.
No, that is a lie, besides, you defend the sex crime of 54 year old fake prophet, with a lie about a religion, this proves that you are evil and insane
muhamed 54 raped a nine year old, and you lie about VIRGIN Mary, do you realize how STUPID that is???
@@worfoz lmo it's funny and ironic how you are replying to someone's comment from 8 years ago and calling it a lie lol!
Why do you think some Christians (catholic encyclopedia and church fathers) would make up stuff about Mary's Age at that time which was normal up till the 20th century anyway? as we clearly see throughout history! And those are the church fathers who put Christianity together for you!
Now does that mean God or Jesus was immoral for impregnating mary or his mother since according to Christians he became God in flesh, or is Joseph a Pedo for marrying mary "God's Mother according to Christianity" and when she was 12 and he was 90?
Or did the Christian God or the holy spirit allow such immorality if you think that's "immoral" to exist among the Christians and Jews all the way up till the 20th century? Huh!
Because there's no age limit in the bible!
So if the prophet was wrong then the entire humanity up till the year 20th century was wrong all of them were Pedos including your grand grandparents!
And to condemn them all is extremism, to say the least if not madness! So to say the least, do not separate the prophet from the rest of humanity otherwise you would have to condemn all humanity including Christianity, jesus, and the Biblical God for allowing such thing and not speaking or warning or even advising against it.
How do you know this was her age? Source please.
Mary did not marry anyone. She was unmarried. Bible is full of made up stories.
Is that the Virgin Mary?
Jonathan Brown seems tired from the same repetitive questions..
You're clearly speaking out of ignorance, forced marriages are not allowed, it's clearly mentioned in the Quran & Hadith's. Also Khaula suggested that the prophet marry either Aisha or Sauda, so it was something completely acceptable in their culture & time.
Both Aisha & her parents accepted the marriage, not to mention the Prophet & Aisha were very happy together.
The problem is you're imposing your own culture on other cultures, assuming that your way of life is the correct one..
Those who make the marriage of Aisha (ra) at the age of 9 an issue, fail to understand that she was the daughter of Abu Bakr (ra), the first to accept Islam and the best friend and companion ( sahaba) of the Prophet (saws). Why a father will allow his daughter to be married, if it was an offense at that time ? Why should a person, who claims to be the Prophet of Allah (SWT), do such an act, if it was against the culture of that time ? The Prophet (saws) married a widow of 40 years at the age of 25, but they do not find any goodness in that, He (saws) was committed to His first wife only, till she lived, but they do not find any goodness in it. He (saws) married other women, who were widows or divorcees, except Aisha (ra), who was the only young and virgin. They can digest adulteration, but not legal marriage. That is their culture.
Khadija was the first to accept Islam?
+Right Path & Peace There is a good comment I came across which will fit well in thi
""The main point is that seems to be ignored on many discussions is that this fake prophet Muhammad is held up as some kind of paragon for today's people to follow! Islamists claim that Muhammad is the perfect example to follow! Well He isn't by any stretch, Aside from being a cold blooded murderer, rapist, looter, a cult leader and Assassin amongst other criminalities. He was a paedophile by today's standards and a "God" would have known this! A "God" would have told him not to marry a 6 year old and rape her at 9! Not only because of the fact it is criminal but the implications this may have for the thousands of poor little children in the future forced into marriage and raped by 50 year olds against their will thinking they are doing a virtuous action by following Mohammed. No God would ever allow this no matter WHEN these obvious crimes (child marraige, rape, paedophilia) against a child occurred. And the fact that no "God" told him it was wrong proves the Quran is NOT the words of a all-knowing, loving, caring "God" but the words of sick men. That much is clearly evident."
Ryan Hartley Except he didn't marry a 6 year old or a 9 year old.
The evidence for it is scant.
MAK AK
Some Muslims are so embarrassed by their prophet’s marriage to a prepubescent girl that they are attempting to rewrite history, claiming that, contrary to all available sources, Aisha must have been much older than history demands. Other Muslims appeal to moral relativism, suggesting that, while sex with young girls may be wrong today, it wasn’t wrong in seventh-century Arabia. Still other Muslims try to offer morally sufficient reasons for their prophet to marry Aisha (i.e., some good state of affairs that could only be attained through Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha).
the numerous accounts we possess which record Aisha’s age when her marriage was consummated. Many of these accounts are from Aisha herself. Indeed, the evidence for Muhammad’s marriage to the young Aisha is as strong as the evidence for just about any other fact in Islam. We have copious traditions from Islam’s most trusted historical sources reporting Muhammad’s marriage proposal when Aisha was six or seven years old, as well as his consummation of that marriage when she was nine:
Sahih al-Bukhari 3896-Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Al-Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he wrote the marriage (wedding) contract with Aishah when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih al-Bukhari 5158-Narrated Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih Muslim 3310-Aisha reported: Allah’s Apostle married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sahih Muslim 3311-Aisha reported that Allah’s Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Sunan Abu Dawud 2116-Aishah said: The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old. (The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years.) He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.
This is just a sample of the early Muslim traditions reporting Muhammad’s marriage to the young Aisha, but it is sufficient to show that she certainly wasn’t fifteen years old at the time of the consummation, as some Muslims claim.
MAK AK
Does not look very scant from the above Mr MakAk, the only thing that looks scant is your comment itself.
IBN Kathir (1301-1373) in his book (beginning and ending)
"Asma died in 73 A.H meaning after Hijra or Emigration to Madina) at the age of One Hundred Years. She was ten years younger than her sister Aisha. This would make Asma 28 years of age in year one A.H and Aisha 18 years old.
Then in year 2 A.H year of the consummation of her marriage to the prophet, Aisha should have 19 years old.
A moron will surely understand this crystal clear information. Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian who like to find the truth, the more I dig in the bible and Islam, the more I found contradictions in the bible.
When I asked the priest about it, he said " do not look for answer, just believe in it.
Now to all of you who have posted your comments here, please help me find an answer.
+Nancy Are you really christian?
+Nancy Are you really christian?
Nancy said
1. , "I am a Christian who like to find the truth, "
Really? What denomination are you and where do you practice?
2. "the more I dig in the
bible and Islam, the more I found contradictions in the bible. "
Care to list any?
3." When I asked the priest about it, he said " do not look for answer, just
believe in it. "
where was this priest ? What parish was he in? what order?
Hani above you said " I am a Christian who like to find the truth, the more I dig in the bible and Islam, the more I found contradictions in the bible. "
When I asked the priest about it, he said " do not look for answer, just believe in it. "
So Hani you say you are a christian is that true? Yes or NO?
2. You claim the contradiction in the Bible is the Trinity. WHERE in the Bible is the word Trinity which you claim is offering you a contradiction?
3. What was the Order of the priest you asked? What denomination of christian are you? I begin to suspect you are making all this up.
Nancy there might not be an answer that everyone will agree on. But only Aisha is mentioned as a bride 9 yrs old and no other girls age are 9 in any tradition Ive ever read. So how does this sync w the brothers statements that the Arabs or at least Muslims married v young girls as custom..?
People who have a hard time with this lack wisdom.
For those who don't understand the term "nikkah".. study this please. In some cultures a family of a boy and girl will have a Nikkah early in their life for them to marry when they are mature enough physically and mentally.
If it was wrong Aisha would have been hurt mentally like so many other girls are if they were abused. However she memorized and carried the entire religion and never remarried for 40 to 50 yrs until her passing. May Allah be pleased with her.
Was it a lustful act? I couldn't have been. Most of the wives of the prophet were old and widowed and he married them to protect and shelter them. He could have gotten married to whoever he wanted. If wanting because of being lusty he certainly could have but as we see he didn't given his other wives ages and condition.
Again as this man mentioned. No one had an issue with this until the 1900th century but even then... as we see in 2016 there are states in the US that 12 is legal with parental consent. I've heard 10 and 11 in early 19th century as well.
Average life span of people during this time wasn't very long due to the wars and non-hospitable environments/heat, famine and so on. Marrying young was as common as the moonlight.
Aishas parents were very wealthy and highly respected people in their communities.
For the people who are sincere and honest about this they will find the truth. Others will shy away from truth and embrace ignorance.
Bro in California there is no minimum age, it's just parental consent
This guy is my hero!
Culture doesnt justify crime. Time/age/period doesnt justify crime. An all knowing God should know that better than anyone.
the problem with your statement is the Two False Assumptions:
1-you are assuming it was a crime.
2-you are assuming that what you view as a crime, God also views as a crime!!
"God should know that better than anyone" yes, exactly!! and God didn't have a problem with the Prophet's actions, YOU DO.
you should follow your own words, not contradict them
UNLESS YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU ARE GOD?!
+
"Culture doesnt justify crime" nor does it decide what crime is for all other TIMES correct!!
so why are you assuming modern western culture is the correct one? a thousand years from now, there might come a culture that says drinking is a Crime, and you can't say otherwise because according to your logic (if people today say it is a crime then it MUST be a crime"
@@ibrahimabdusalam2400 child rape is a crime, don't fool yourself my friend. and muhamed was a child rapist so he was a criminal
muhameds associate alla has the same views as his creator muhamed, gods do not order bastard to claim to be prophets, to rape kids and to mass murder Jews, butt alla, muhameds filthy fart, does
islam is created by child raping bastard terrorist, quran is proof, ahadith are proof, even the bible is proof and now you are here exposing your sect:
more proof
unless you are saying child rapist muhamed did create a real god...
lol
@@worfoz the definition of a child is someone who hasn't hit puberty yet. Menstration means they are not biologically a child anymore.
@@principlemethods5281 A NINE YEAR OLD IS A CHILD, STOP SPREADING LIES TO DEFEND MUHAMEDS CRIMES NOW
Real islam does not support muhameds crimes, so wshy do YOU?
why do you make it look like that islam promotes child abuse????
@@principlemethods5281 why do you make it look like that islam promotes child abuse????
Why believe in a hadith report that depicts under age marriage ? Since when did hadith become equal to revelation. Tabari was not divinely inspired neither was Bukhari.
+Moby Inayet
non said they were divinely inspired
+Moby Inayet Thank you
MARRIAGEABLE AGE
The beginning of the physiological cycles in a girl and nocturnal emissions in a boy are commonly believed to be their age of marriage. To the unfortunate Mullah, everything revolves around sex. A Hadith of Bukhari atrociously tells us that a girl can have Nikah (the marital contract) at 6 and the marriage can be consummated at age 9 since the exalted Prophet did that with Hazrat Ayesha! Is there any wonder that the West call him a child-molester? Why don't then the Sunnah-peddlers "marry off" their daughters at 6 and 9? Many countries set an arbitrary 16 years for the girl and 18 years for the boy. The Divine Wisdom enshrined in the Qur’an makes things so sensible. It sets up three rational criteria that take into account physical as well as mental maturity of the would-be bride and groom. The exalted Prophet did not violate the Glorious Book once in his life.
The Criteria:
1 -Sufficient maturity to grant consent.
2 - Ability to sign a solemn, legal contract.
3 - Competence to take care of one's own finances.
4:19 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! It is not lawful for you to force women into marrying or holding on to them in marriage against their will. ---.
5:5 This Day, all good things of your choice are made lawful for you. …. And so are the virtuous, chaste women of the believers and the virtuous, chaste women …..
4:21 And how could you take the marital gift back from her after you have lived intimately with each other and after she has taken from you a very Solemn Pledge of the marital contract? (Meethaqan Ghaleeza).
4:6 Train and educate the orphans well and test them. When they reach the age of marriage and attain sound judgment, release their property to them. The marriageable age shall mean attainment of physical and mental maturity when one can express free consent and legally make a solemn contract (4:21). ----
What Was The Age of Ummul Mo’mineen Sayyida Ayesha (May Allah be pleased with her) When She Married To Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)?
www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/ummul-momineen-hazrat-ayesha-may-allah-be-pleased-with-her/
+Moby Inayet Hadiths are considered authoritative by Muslims. That's why.
We know the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) became massenger of Allah at the age of around 40 years. By that time he had married at 25 yrs of age, had daughters Kulsum (RA) and Ruqayya (RA) ALREADY married to two sons of Abu Lahab. It means that elder daughter was at most 14yrs of age and the younger one at most 12 years of age AT THE TIME WHEN He (PBUH) became the prophet of Allah. Since the marriage had been already done earlier at some time it is obvious that Mohammed (PBUH) had Himself married his OWN daughters in the age range that is being criticized when it comes to His (PBUH) own marriage with Aayesh (RA). It is as such clear that it was part and parcel of the society and there was nothing wrong in it at all.
Show me in the Bible where it speaks against this type a practice
IT doesent lol - 1 kings 1:2 - 1Now King David was old, advanced in age; and they covered him with clothes, but he could not keep warm. 2So his servants said to him, "Let them seek a YOUNG VIRGIN for my lord the king, and let her attend the king and become his nurse; and let her lie in your bosom, that my lord the king may keep warm." 3So they searched for a beautiful girl throughout all the territory of Israel, and found Abishag the Shunammite, and brought her to the king.…
Also, anyone who isn't actively trying to prove that aisha was not 9 when the marriage was consummated has evil intentions. There is absolutely no way that this man advocates for Islam and he is NOT trying to shed Islam is a positive light.
What about the fact of asma being 10 years older than aisha?
Islam Truth That narration is considered weak by muhadditheen, that Asma and Aisha had a 10 year age difference. The narration about Aisha being 9 is more authentic.
Actually the Qur'an prohibits pedophilia. Read Surah An-Nisa. Also look at this link: czcams.com/video/sGOyEt5szM0/video.html It shows that the hadith about Ayesha RA being nine is false.
the argument is not an Older Man marrying a young woman. it's about any aged man, marrying a child.and having sex with a child. think about something. Why is it that Hazret.Ayesha did not give the Prophet any children. why? why she never ,ever gave him child?
Brandy Mcneill what do you mean, are you suggesting they didn't have intercourse?
Brandy Mcneill how do you know he had sex with a child? people reached puberty at a young age that time. a 17 year old became an army general at that time.
Brandy Mcneil, I would suggest that the argument is not about an older man marrying a young woman ( if so, this is not going to make anybody unhappy. There are thousands of examples of Older men marrying young women and vice versa). The problem at hand we are dealing with is that the Prophet of Islam married a 9 years old child. We have to look at every aspect of the problem to seek the truth.
Bukhari compiled his book of hadith nearly 250 years after the passing away of prophet Muhammad, so neither Muhammad nor Ayesha was there to confirm or reject the claim that she was 9 years old at the time of her marriage. Since these books were written on the basis of hearsay and chain of narrators, you come across some sayings ATTRIBUTED to prophet Muhammad which pose insult to prophet, Allah and human intellect as well. How can we trust statements recorded by some individuals on the basis of hearsay. FOR AN INSTANCE, the final sermon given by the prophet Muhammad was witnessed by THOUSANDS of people because people had gathered to perform Pilgrimage. TODAY MUSLIMS HAVE THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE SERMON. Such is the case with hadiths.
Quran confirms that Muhammad followed Quran only. Quran tells the believers to give their daughters in marriage only then when they come of age. So there is a condition that she should attains the age of maturity not only physically but mentally as well.
There is an other indication towards the age of the girl. Parents are strictly told to get the consent of their daughters before giving them into marriage. It is easy to see that prophet could not get betrothed Ayesha when she was 6 and later marry her when she was 9. How can a six or 9 year old child give his or her consent when she knows nothing about marriage or how can we imagine prophet Muhammad going against the teachings of Quran.
As far as your second point is concerned, i would like to inform you that Muhammad had children from only two of his wives, Khadija and Maria. His marriage with Khadija lasted for 25 years and till her death.
br Teddy your answer is based on reason and so will be acceptable to persons who are open minded and think in light of all possible aspects.
Anyone knows the name of speaker.I've never seen him before
Dr. Jonathan brown
Islamic Studies professor and American ISlamic Scholar
+invisible 1 Professor Jonathan Brown
The ages of many people even after the first generation of Muslims, or birth dates or death dates, are often off by a couple of years or much more in some cases. A hadith which states Aisha, r.a. was 9 was reported from Iraq by a man who had never been to Medina. He had a poor memory as well, according to sources. This question still needs to be addressed to satisfaction because of the conflicting opinions and sources. Logic tells us that she was of marriagable age.
Fitim Krasniqi this is also part of the wider discussion. Im not denying that these traditions exist.
www.islamiqate.com/1788/which-classical-scholars-disputed-aisha-when-married-prophet and www.islamiqate.com/3212/what-was-shia-stance-regarding-aishas-when-marrying-prophet clearly show that up to 1905 all Muslims agreed she had been 6 or 7 at nikkah and 9 at consummation. The rest is just expediency and hippocrasy. "Oh if her age is a problem....we'll just make her look older. "
@@concerned_parent instead of age of marriage let's just say she was mature enough to marry. Mental and physical maturity and fitness can change due to environmental, social and other conditions. Ppl can change just like animals do. There are fishes that mature and reproduce earlier just because of over fishing. Probably ppl did mature faster in the past. Ppl had different bone structure when they used to eat better food. It doesn't bother me if she was 9 or 19 makes no difference to me bc it was 1440 years ago. Thanks for the link. And Aisha (RA) reportedly said to her husband (PBUH) (when she went to be with him), "I prepared myself for you".
@@Diamondraw4Real 9 and mature enough to take such far reaching decisions and decide on risky intercourse and pregnancy. Poppycock.
czcams.com/video/HmP66xGpjGo/video.html watch Nujood Ali's father first admit the danger of intercourse at that age and subsequently see Nujood describe what happpened.
archive.org/details/annualreportofre171854grea/page/n15/mode/2up Annual report of the Registrar-General of births, deaths and marriages in England. General Register Office. Government publishing marriage-statistics in 1856.
"Marriages of minors.-9210 men and 28,797 women, or 38,007 men and women, married under 21 years of age ; so that the proportion of minors in 100 men who married was 5.77, in 100 women 18.03;"
Fact: 82% of women wait until they reach adulthood at 21 before marrying/settling. That is a norm about adulthood.
www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html describes what very young girls go through if they go through pregnancy/delivery in tropical Africa.
"The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13....... Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.
The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk."
Maybe God can send a couple if apologists back as 9 year old girls who have just had their first periods and are about to be impregnated by their 54 year old hubbys? See how you like it.
Intercourse at 9 has never been the norm in any society because it is too dangerous.
@@Diamondraw4Real 9 is unacceptable to me and reason to reject Muhammed as a prophet. Because of the grave risk he subjected Aisha too.
My point is that if he was the embodiment of all virtue in the whole of Arabia (as you clearly advocate yourself), there must be a clear reason why he married her at whatsoever age she was at the time. I'd take that on faith.
The reason why he married her was because there was a need for a woman who was brought up under the prophet saw and carried on Masail that wouldve other wise been impossible to understand by someone else. Most of the hadiths on couple life ir donestuc life ir either from Fatjma ra ir Aisha ra
These are not Muslims.
Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13yo (1350), and aged 14yo when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351).
Theodora Comnena was aged 13yo when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158).
Agnes of France was 12yo when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12yo when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.
Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9yo, married aged 14yo, and gave birth aged 15yo.
Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13yo and bore a son within a few years.
Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5yo and married aged 15yo.
But what of young women who were not noble or royal - at what age did they marry and have children.
The consensus is that young women of middle or low status married and gave birth at a much later age for a number of reasons:
They did not need to marry for dynastic reasons.
They tended to contribute to the family income whilst they remained unmarried and still living within the family unit.
Girls were often employed in service for a “fixed” term before being paid out and released from service.
And in some cases, a “fee” was required to be paid upon the marriage.
“Church law forbade child marriage and allowed young brides and grooms to repudiate the marriage once they reached the age of puberty, which was officially set at 12 for girls and 14 for boys”.
Good listing. But none of these people listed were prophets of God.
When God is said to be your guardian, and informing your actions than, these actions must be good and upholding of all times.
You can't compare the action of a man and a prophet.
There's an enormous difference between 9 and 14. We fixate on under 18 but biologically speaking the biggest line is puberty.
Saudi Arabia is a very hot country. In very hot countries, puberty occurs very much earlier than colder countries. So 9 years old girl in very hot climate equals to 12-13 years old girl in colder climate.
juannifer32
wow amazing listing. thank you so much for these names and historical info.
bless you.
Sheryl R Amin and thank you
Urmm, it's not a video. It's an Islamic webpage suggesting a clear explanation of the topic. However, you have to bear one thing in mind, although Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim are considered the most authentic books after the Koran. They're still open to discussion- and open ended. Since many of the narrations may or may not be totally acceptable, not because of the Prophet being at fault, rather the generations of people who passed if forward after him. In contrast to Koran, of course.
This is what has been needed, a fair and balanced assessment of a "controversial" subject, at least from a Western viewpoint. I love how he pointed out that Humanity has always had different "ethical" and "moral" standards from country to country, region to region. The British and Roman Aristocracies tended to marry older but that can be looked at in two ways: someone can say they were more "sophisticated" while in another, they were more "immature" because they put off their responsibilities (like marriage and having children) so they could continue to act like "immature" teenagers when they were in their 20s and 30s!
As for Aisha's age, I tend to believe the most common story, that she was pledged to marry the Prophet (Peace be upon them) when she was 9 and they consummated the marriage when she was around 13. It's the one that makes the most sense because around the globe, as soon as a girl had her first menstrual cycle, she was considered a woman, and the flipside is true of men: as soon as a boy started producing semen, he was a man. There were certain rituals attached to the occasions and they varied from culture-to-culture.
Pulsar Stargrave I also like the conclusion when he pointed out how slippery attitudes are in Europe (and by extension the US) about GOD and morality! I would characterize it as "...whichever way the wind blows!"
You say all of this disregarding science, a woman's menses indicates the beginning of her change in body her hips are still widening, she is not ready for pregnancy and her chance dying in labour goes up exponentially. Not to mention a low birth weight for the baby. She is still a child. All religions are cults, you can follow your cult leader to the grave if you want but don't condone pedophilia as if it's a righteous deed.
Haroon Khan Men and women married younger in the ancient world and today, teen age women who unfortunately get pregnant, still carry their babies to term as long as they receive decent prenatal care. But as to your "point" a 13 or 14 year old in the ancient world was FAR MORE MATURE than the average 30 year old of today! In the ancient world people HAD to mature faster because their life expectancy was much shorter! Pick up a history book and get off your high horse!
You missed my "point" completely I didn't once mention maturity being a factor even though I could even argue from that standpoint and mention the fact that brain development or MATURITY peaks at the age of 25 and STARTS in regards to the changes being made at puberty. also Ayesha was not a mature child as even if I were to go with your definition, the Hadith literature shows her playing on a swing and with dolls before her mollestation. And she was 9 years old when she was permitted to his house not 13 or 14 this is agreed upon
Haroon Khan Your quoting some 21st century psycho babble that has no relevance on the ancient world. Alexander the Great achieved his first great military victory at 17 and there were other great figures who did remarkable achievements (to us) at a "young" age. If you reached the age of 40 in the ancient world you were considered VERY OLD. People like yourself are applying contemporary "standards" (which I find laughable) to the ancient world that simply do not apply. That was the subject of this video which you apparently didn't watch. I'm not going to argue this with you because you obviously haven't studied history.
Her age doesn't matter tbh. She was married to the prophet pbuh, it was a legal marriage, it was a consensual marriage and that's all fact. More than that because of Aisha ra we have so many authentic hadith that help us live our deen.she taught more than 80 scholars. She was an advisor to the caliphs on matters of fiqh and jurisprudence. That's her legacy and its always disregarded because if something as inconsequential as her age and let's face it her age IS inconsequential because she lived in 7th century Arabia. It wasn't like she was the first girl to be married to an older man in her time period, in her community or even in the whole of the world at that time. It's just hypocritical to go on about her age when the whole world was doing the exact same thing. And they did it because it was a societal norm and that's what was considered right. Obviously you can't compare 7th century to the 21st century. Why should you. That's why Islam only has the requirement of age of puberty and unforced agreement to get married. Cause times change. People don't get married at 9 in the 21st century. Why is this such an issue. Get over it.
Her age does matter if you try to present Muhammed as a 'perfect human being' and a 'perfect role model'.
Muhammed tnded the flocks for his uncle for a while and later for his fist wife and he would have known about preventing too early pregnancies because of their risks.
Goats:
www.goatfarmers.com/blog/goat-breeding%2F
"Age to Start Breeding
Be careful not to breed your goats at too young of an age. Why? Because a doe's body isn't prepared to grow and deliver a kid safely until A doe can reach puberty and be ready to conceive in as little as 4 to 12 months of age. That doesn't mean her body is prepared for the process. "
Horses:
www.wikihow.com/Breed-a-Horse
Be sure the mare is the right age for breeding. The best age to breed a mare for the first time is once she has finished growing herself, at around three to four years of age. It is possible to breed from 18 months, but this places a lot of demands on the body of a mare that is still growing itself. [6]
Cows/oxen:
www.wikihow.com/Know-when-a-Heifer-or-Cow-Is-Ready-to-Be-Bred
"Usually it's best to wait until they are at least 15 months of age before breeding. Even though the early maturing breeds do reach puberty by the time they are around 7 to 9 months of age, it is best to wait until they are around 13 to 15 months of age before you can breed them.[1] This is because it allows them to grow more, increase their pelvic area and gain enough condition that can allow them to sustain themselves throughout gestation. Heifers that are bred too early tend to have too small a pelvic area to calve out,"
How come Mormons who apostacise usually mention the 14 year old child-bride of Joseph Smith as a reason they lost faith czcams.com/video/xjS0eQXNBAI/video.htmlm10s but Muslims present a 9 year old having intercourse with their prophet as 'normal' or 'acceptable'?
@@concerned_parent I already laid out the reasoning in my first comment. I think it was pretty clear. If you disagree then you disagree. Peace.
@@aishaarshadalam3412 " It's just hypocritical to go on about her age when the whole world was doing the exact same thing."
You are lying that the whole world was having intercourse at 9.
Bagnall, Roger S. The Demography of Roman Egypt. E-book, Cambridge [England]: Cambridge University Press, 1994, www.cambridge.org/core/books/demography-of-roman-egypt/marriage/EDC74C1C06DA145343594EA1D4001496
Byzantium and the Roman Empie had a marriage age of 12 for girls.
Use three centuries of Roman Census data (000-300) in Egypt to calculate age of first marriage.
The most common ages of first marriage appear to be roughly equally ascending from 14-23 and then starting to go down. 12-13 year olds were uncommon.
No clear evidence of early onset of menstruation and related low marriage age. Lower first marriage age than nowadays, but not spectacularly lower and fair numbers of 18-23 year olds.
archive.org/details/0325323.nlm.nih.gov/page/n9/mode/2up 1817 edition.
Socrates indicates that menses usually starts at 14 or 15 and he indicates "Hippocrates holds, that a youth of fifteen years or between that and seventeen, having much vital strength, is capable of getting a child." Hippocrates 460-370 BC
Socrates 479-399 BC
The Greeks new a pregnancy at onset of menstruation was very dangerous. They were widely used in medicine in Persia and Arabia.
Just because Muhammed behaved immorally does not mean the whole world did it. Name me one evidence that it was common. It was not.
@@concerned_parent You can't bring morality into the equation while citing examples from the Greeks and Romans. And you can't compare one ancient civilization and say they are "morally" superior or better when the fact of the matter is what ancient societies did is not comparable to what societies do in the 21st century. And hate to break it to you but there are many examples of child brides in 7th century Arabian society and across the globe during, before and after that time period. The companions themselves had child brides, Aisha ra was actually engaged to another man before she was engaged to the Prophet pbuh, an engagement that broke because her father became Muslim. She was far younger than 6 years old during that engagement. There is evidence of child brides in Norse, Persian, Indian and Chinese civilizations too. The problem with your outrage is that it's hypocritical. You are looking at an older society through a 21st century lens. You think your morals are better because we are far more technologically advanced today then they were then? You think human history with all its good and bad can be looked at through your subjective lens and judged? If you're that sensitive then I suggest you stay away from all history. We agree to disagree. I won't be replying. Peace.
@@aishaarshadalam3412 Aside from "watch me". I can say that the problem is caused by the promotion of Muhammed claiming he is a perfect human being, a perfect example for all time. Then of course we can see if we want to accept Muhammed for our time. The anachronism is that you try to drag him to our time and we reject the behaviour where he had intercourse with a 9 year old.
You can find examples of child-brides, but that does not mean it was "normal" or "the norm". Even political marriages in Europe occurred but were rare. Not "the norm".
The Romans had a marriage age of 12 and there are statiistics known because they recorded census data. When Muhammed travelled to meet a Nestorian monk in Bosra with his uncle he may well have been in the Byzantine empire with its marriage age of 12.
If you want to look at whether Muhammed was a perfect human being and a perfect example to follow for all time I can only say that I reject him as such on the grounds that he knowingly put a 9 year old at great risk of harm by having intercourse with her. The fact of whether it was common enough to be called "the norm" at the time has only limited impact, particularly since you have no evidence it was. If it was common to risk impregnation of 9 year olds many would have died. Aside from the risks through intercourse itself.
So that is it: I cannot accept him on what I have seen as evidence so far.
I seem agitated at people who say he had sex with her at 9, there is no proof that it happened she could have just lived with him until she was ready
Jay Jays except that isnt what the SAHIH Hadith say! Or what Tafsir in surah say oir what fatwa say or what teh consensus of scholars has been for over a thousand years.
there are sahih hadiths (in the sahih collections) that have been given the grade of daif (week) by scholars, the hadith where aisha states she was 9 is not believed by me personally..
7:11 --- "99.9% of your brain at that point is occupied with sex" LOL
Sadly true... ;'D
Jonathan Brown, for one weak Hadith you will have to dismiss a set of historical events in order to authenticate that one single Hadith.
1) She narrated the event of Surat Al Qammar did she not? That Surat was revealed in year 610 CE
2) Al Tabbari claims that all of Abu Bakr's children were born before Islam
3) She was 10 years younger than her sister Asma (ra both)
4) She was already engaged to Jubayr ibn Mut'im (how old was she then, 4 ? )
5) She has participated in the two battles, what is important Mr Brown is what she was doing during that battle a 9 year old girl could not carry those big heavy water skins.
So until you reconcile every single one of the above arguments you cannot possibly just accept one vague Hadith that find its way into the collection, I can name hundreds of silly Hadiths found in the Bukhari as well, even one where Muhammad (pbuh) prayed without Wudu, one where he was doing answering the call of nature in public and many other stupid Hadiths.
6) Hisham was a senile old man, even Ibn Batota and many others did not take his reports seriously when he moved to Iraq, his memory was failing him, so no, he was the only source who claimed that Aisha married when she was 9 years old and at the time he lived in Basra in Iraq.
can anyone please explain: if in Islam marriage is by consent then how could Aisha had given an evaluated consent at 6 years old (prepubescent)? even if she agreed, she is immature and her decisions might be under influence. The Prophet consummated the marriage when Aisha was 9; isn't this is the age when Aisha should have been asked for consent, when she fully have grown and could make proper decisions?
very old, I know
consent in marriage is just like consent in other matters if the person is underage and cannot give consent, the father will decide.
just like a simple school trip, a 9-year-old cannot sign his own agreement to that trip, his parents do.
Aisha's father " Abu Baker" is the one who agreed to it.
@@ibrahimabdusalam2400 this is stupid. Marriage is not a trip. It's an INDIVIDUAL decision that only the person must agree with the intending spouse, specially because it involves sex. When you say that one can marry his daughter (immature by the way) without her consent, you are promoting the worst type of slavery, child abuse and rape. Forcing a person to marry (and marrying off a child) is against universal moral and conciousness.
@sabrinagelatina no, it's more like when she reached puberty she could decide 4 herself and she agreed. At 6, she was engaged . This only ment that there's a option for her when she's ready for marriage . Islam forbids force marriage
Syed Ahmed said:Sahih is given label. Islam belief is about answering God on Judgement Day which means I am responsible for my belief. If I see something wrong I can say there is a mistake. The faith exists without hadith books because we worship God. Hadith are oral narrations collected almost three centuries after Prophet Muhammad (s). He ordered writing and collecting the Revelation but made no requirement with narrations because the religion is composed of Quran the Revelation and Sunnah which is inherited religious practice of the Prophet. He and his followers were not reading hadith books, they are not part of the religion. Sunnah is part of the religion. Hadith may contain Sunnah plus other narrations. See Wikipeidia List of Hadith Collections to appreciate how many collections and narrations there are. All but one of the major Sunni collectors were Persians (not Arabs). Sunnis don't read Shia collections and vice versa. But all Muslims accept Quran is in original form.
My reply:
Syed do you reject the Hasith all 25 SAHIH hadith plus fatwa plus Tafsir?
Do you reject them yes or no?
Do you say Islam should have NO HADITH?
If so what is the Sunnah?
The Koran was also collected centuries after Mohammad. You cant produce any evidence to show that it existed as it exists today as the SAME IN ARABIC in Mohammads time. Hadith use the same methods tas Koran writrers three centuries later so if they are unreliable so is the Koran.
SUNNAH = Hadith plus Sira so how can you reject the Hadith withouyt rejecting Sunnah?
Most SUNNI muslims accept Six Hadith writers but the main two ar3e Bukhari and Islam/Muslim.
Virtulayy nothing is mentioned abouit Mohammad in the Koran you havce to go to the Sira and to Hadith to find out about him.
Also wher do you get the idea of FIVE PRAYERS a day ? It uissnt in the Koran it is in the HADITH!
What do you mean by "original form" ? there are several DIFFERENT arabic Korans today and they all differ from the oldest know Korans or parts of Ancient Korans. Even the main narrator of the most popular Koran "Hafis" is rejected as a Hadith writer. Is the Warsh or Hafs Koran the correct one?
Thank you ,I always had a problem with the marriage age for Aisha but now I understand why at that time, it was simply how things were ...well before prophet Mohammed came.
Jonathan Brown :)
The Qur'an and Hadith deal with apparent science, not technical science. If you're on Earth, the sun looks like it revolves around it. If you're in space, the Earth revolves around the sun. Where are we right now?
The Europeans explicitly believed in geocentrism, not Muslims. Heliocentricism is not a new concept and was known by Muslims, they just weren't able to test the two theories until recently. The Hadith is figurative, because the sun cannot prostrate due to lack of limbs.
All the people who are coming up with "evidence" that aisha(Ra.) Was older say 28/19
Please note that the Hadith we have are from an absolute authentic source and if you say that bukhari or tabarani is not reliable then the whole concept of haddiths will fall apart.
I don't question the authenticity of the Hadith or that she has said what she said about her age. But I question her knowledge of her age. Do you think people knew how old they really were? Arabs kept and recorded time rarely and loosely and only for important events. So they say this event happened some years after this event. Arabs almost never worried about documenting events and especially birthdays. Until very recently people and especially Arabs didn't care about birthdays. They counted very loosely with the number 7 meaning a lot. So if I say a certain event was 7 years after another then it could mean it happened after a significant number of years and not really 7. And they didn't have a point zero to record from. They have a significant event and they date another event based on it then they date the next based on the new one. And they all are not precise. Take the age of Muhammad peace be upon him. Arab historians date his birth to the day of the elephant. So he was born some time near the year the war against Macca was waged using elephants as armored vehicles.
My grandfather and grandmother, in the early 1900s didn't know their own birthdays. And when public records were created they had to estimate their age with +-5 years. And they had WW1 as a reference. And that's only a hundred years ago. So they ask my grandpa or his uncles, "how many years, do you think, after or before the big war was this person born?". And uncles or parents of such people rarely knew exact numbers because they didn't celebrate birthdays and had too many kids and nieces and nephews to really keep count. And a person would be even less of authentic estimator of their age than their elders. So I would take Aisha's older sister or father's estimate of Aisha's birthday more than her own estimate of her birthday for people are aware of age and time different from a somewhat unbiased observer.
He is good.
1:18 is that Adnan Rashid?
Poor Muslim people why u guys don't understand Hadith are not divine books only Quran is so plz don't defend nonsense books and allow other to insult dear prophet, Muslims of today are really uneducated and poor, sorry to say this but it's true.
So you believe most muslims are not true muslims and only Koran only muslims are real muslims and you reject all the Hadith sira and traditions? You believe sunni muslims and the Sunnah are not Islam?
Quoran commands, "Do not use bad words or curse any one." Period. Bukhari has written that Prophet cursed women ???
Prophet followed Quoran only he never cursed any one.
Yes, she was 9 years old when she got married and we are proud of it. Just read ur sociologist and they will tell u how Age is a social construct. We don't care abt it. She was happy. Situation sorted. She never complained once so we ok with all of it and dknt need ur culture
I think it was the same God who gave the prophet (pbuh) permission to marry Khadeja, when he was 25 whilst she was 40. ;) It amazes me when nobody brings that up in a debate yet resorts to petty arguments, when a situation doesn't fit their 20th century values. What is evil today was considered normal 1500 years ago.
Pedophile Muhammad was also a gold digger. Khadeja was a very wealthy widow. He married her for money. once he married her he quit his job and spent the days secluded in a cave. What would a young man with abnormal sex drive do all by himself in a cave all day long? Jerk off all day long.
,For many noble-born or royal women, marriage could and often did take place at a young age. There are many instances or very young girls being betrothed and married under the age of 10 years old. This did not necessarily mean that the marriage was consummated. However, there was a perception that once a girl began her period that she was considered to be of marriageable age. And so the male could begin his almighty pursuit for an heir.
Yes but these noble born or royal men or women are not seen as the perfect human being to emulate for all time like how Muhammad is seen in the eyes of muslims.
The Eagle it's not about being a perfect human it's called what laws did Muhammad break the laws for this is in these times and did they set this law because it was against Scripture? You condemn this because of our laws today no matter what you say there was no laws against this and this is not a sin against Scripture. Muhammad didn't break any laws of his time or any laws of Scripture
juannifer32 was muhammad the greatest man who ever lived??? Is Muhammad the perfect example of all that is righteous,and is he the perfect example for muslims,for all time???? If not then why would god send him down as the final messenger for all of mankind???Surely god knows everything and he wouldn't send a prophet down as an example for all time ,if his behaviour,(sleeping with a 9 year old child) would make the prophet of all time into a peadaphile 1400 years later,as sleeping with a 9 year old is clearly not an example,that man should follow for all time.
The Eagle what Scripture law did he go against ? The Royals who practiced the same thing they were Christians and the also consummated the marriage after the girl became of age that girl is a woman once she becomes of age in Scripture as well show me a verse from Scripture where the girl has to be a 18 year old girl.
You view is due to a man made law not a law from God.
The royals are not an example for mankind to follow for eternity.Who cares what this king or that queen done.Thats irrelevant.Christians dont revere these people in 2016.Their way of life back then doesn't inspire christians of today,and the secular west certainly doesn't see these people in any other context besides history.But 1.4 billion muslims alive today see muhammad's behaviour as utterly righteous and the perfect example,including sleeping with a 9 year old girl. Ok ,just say we could teleport you back to the 7th century,but you have the knoledge you have now.If you met Muhammad, would you tell the prophet to stop sleeping with Aisha because its immoral and it makes you a peadophile???? Or would you praise the prophet and let him carry on sleeping with the 9 year old child????
7:37 -- "...and, you're sitting out there with goats. And you've got nothing to do. You have no hope in your life of ever doing anything, except tending goats. • Why in God's name would you *not* get married (at the point)? It's make no sense. Of course, you should."
Well said.
yes but see how society changed, even to some of us, we make about having goats and living in the desert is a joke when 100 years ago it was very normal thing to do across the world.. they even laughed, that illestrate the points that society find a thing wrong, right, old, funny depending in the century they live in.. the accuse our prophet but did not see he brought light and Koran which encourge freeing slaves, stop killing their infants for fear of poverty etc.. they do not point that out, haters .
@@sutil5078 1. Intercourse with 9 year olds has never been the norm in any society. Maybe less uncommon then today, but never so common that it was the norm.
2. archive.org/details/annualreportofre171854grea/page/n15/mode/2up Annual report of the Registrar-General of births, deaths and marriages in England. General Register Office. Government publishing marriage-statistics in 1856.
"Marriages of minors.-9210 men and 28,797 women, or 38,007 men and women, married under 21 years of age ; so that the proportion of minors in 100 men who married was 5.77, in 100 women 18.03; "
18% married at 20 or younger and as 'minors' had to get permission from their parents.
82% waited until they were considered adults before considering settling down / marrying/ starting a family.
The norm was to wait until one was considered an adult, at least 21.
Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book
9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133 says six and nine no.1877 p.134. says seven and
nine. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H. A’isha
said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died Are the Hadiths
mistaken on your view or do you believe they are correct?
www.islamiqate.com/1788/which-classical-scholars-disputed-aisha-when-married-prophet and www.islamiqate.com/3212/what-was-shia-stance-regarding-aishas-when-marrying-prophet clearly show that up to 1905 all muslims were taught Aisha was 6 or 7 at nikkah and 9 at consummation. All historians, exegesis writers agreed. Only After 1905 did Shia first start revising her age and very recently some Sunnis have joined in. Expediency is an interesting motive though it will incur comments of hipocrisy
Watch Imran Hosein on this issue, case closed.
Mut'ah boy
Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133
In-book reference : Book 67, Hadith 69
@@aabdullah2996 The reason why Aisha was permitted to play with dolls in front of Muhammad is because she hadn’t attained puberty yet:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, NOT YET REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)
Muhammad was a bad role model for the last Prophet.
czcams.com/video/JKnk0tMQZVg/video.html
@@SheikhAlladeen mary 12yo why you sakmyself why
@@faredxc2548 0..---- Marriage to a young girl before she reaches puberty is permissible according to sharee’ah, and it was narrated that there was scholarly consensus on this point.
1 - Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”
[al-Talaaq 65:4]
In this verse we see that Allaah states that for those who do not menstruate - because they are young and have not yet reached the age of puberty - the ‘iddah in the case of divorce is three months. This clearly indicates that it is permissible for a young girl who has not started her periods to marry.
Al-Tabari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The interpretation of the verse “And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”. He said: The same applies to the ‘idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them. ...pedo pgs
@@SheikhAlladeen Aisha R.A was sexually mature for marriage mentione from authentic sources
“Al-Dawudi said: “And Aishah’s body had been matured. [i.e. reached ‘good Youthfulness’ (Shabaaban husna)] - may Allah be pleased with her“ (“Sharh al-Nawawi” 9/207 [Explanation of Sahih Muslim]).
Aisha said: “When a girl [jaariyah] reaches [balaghat] 9 years old [tis'asineen] , then she is [fa hiyya] a woman [imra'ah] ” (Recorded in Sunan al “Tirmidhi”, Kitab al Nikah [Book on Marriage] 1027).
Malik (Ibn Anas), Imam Abu Hanifa and Ash-Shafi’ie (ALL respected scholars of Islam) have said: A Restriction Limit [arabic: hadd] (should be placed between marriage partners until maturity) that is able for (tuTeeq = able to handle) Sexual intercourse. (al jamaa')
Al-Tirmidhi has narrated under a Hadith in his collection’s Book of Marriage, Chapter 18. It goes as: Sayyidah Aisha said: ‘When a girl is nine years old, she is a woman (meaning, she has attained puberty).’ (Tirmidhi, Hadith 1109)
Hence, it is amazing to see a person making so much effort in trying to malign other religions and prophets based upon HALF TRUTHS;
On one hand you rely on proof of the age of marriage from islamic sources - however on the other hand you IGNORE all the references from the same sources which point to the fact that there was a gap of 3 years between marriage and consummation of marriage and that this wait period was meant to give her sufficient time to develop as a women which was confirmed by Aisha R.A herself.
Lastly the success of her marriage and the love and affection between her and prophet saws till he breathed his last and even after that is Proof that all these allegations are nothing but means to obfuscate the truth and to divert the attention from the core concepts of Islam ie Islamic Monotheism
@@faredxc2548 what kind of 54y old piece of garbage needs a female partner 9y old ? That is pedophilia. Allah allows pedophilia .......Marriage to a young girl before she reaches puberty is permissible according to sharee’ah, and it was narrated that there was scholarly consensus on this point.
Allaah says
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”
[al-Talaaq 65:4]
In this verse we see that Allaah states that for those who do not menstruate - because they are young and have not yet reached the age of puberty - the ‘iddah in the case of divorce is three months. This clearly indicates that it is permissible for a young girl who has not started her periods to marry.
Al-Tabari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The interpretation of the verse “And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”. He said: The same applies to the ‘idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them. not even dogas do that
Logically, Arguing that the Cultural Acceptance back then does not justify anything, is interestingly an argument against the same person using the argument, the argument attacks itself, it hits both ways!!
Because, why should one Culture's Objection (to something) be Stronger then another Culture's Acceptance(of the same thing)
Example:
if you say "just because pedophilia was acceptable to non-Muslim Arabs 1000 years ago, that does not mean that it is acceptable"
you see, the reason people today object to Child marriage is because of Cultural reasons, but they cannot use their Cultural Objection against another Culture's Acceptance!! (why should your culture be prioritized over another??)
It's just like a matter of opinion if you said to someone "In my opinion, your opinion is false"
your own statement can be used against you!!
There's children that die from these child marriages. It's not a cultural thing. I think most sensible people know that having sex with a toddler is not a my culture your culture thing. It's disgusting that you would go this far to justify a pedophiles actions. We say the culture shouldn't matter to a prophet for this reason. The prophets actions should align with the morality of any time.
@@tellmethis6836 I agree intercourse at 9 and possible pregnancy/delivery at 9 or 10 are very high risk to young girls.
Intercourse itself:
Khomeiny's book ‘Tahrir al Wasilah’. Translation: Dr. Sayyid Ali Reza Naqavi Pubished 2001 archive.org/details/TahrirAlVasilah/0000-tahrir%20j3-nA4/page/n441/mode/2up
"Problem # 12. Intercourse with a woman is not allowed unless she attains the age of nine years, regardless whether the marriage is permanent or temporary. There is, however, no objection in other enjoyments like touching lasciviously, hugging and rubbing the thighs, even with a suckling infant. If a
person has had intercourse with a girl before she has attained the age of nine years, but it has not resulted in ifda' he shall not be subjected to any punishment, except that he shall be considered to have committed a sin. If his intercourse has resulted in Ida'. so that the urinal and menstrual or the
menstrual and fecal passages have become one she shall be rendered perpetually prohibited to him though, according to the more cautious opinion, it shall be so in the latter case. In any case, according to the stronger opinion, she shall not cease to be his wife. So all the laws relating to her wifehood shall apply to her like mutual inheritance, prohibition on having a fifth wife, and the prohibition for the husband to marry her sister, etc. He shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, even if he divorces her, rather, according to the more cautious opinion, even if she marries another husband after the divorce by the first husband, rather it is not devoid of force, and he shall also be bound to pay the Diyat for Ilda' to her, and that is equal to the Diyat of a human being. If the wife is a free woman, she
shall receive half the Diyat of a man in addition to the dower to which she is entitled by virtue of the contract and consummation of marriage. If the husband performs intercourse with his wife after she has completed nine years of age, and it results in Ilda' , she shall neither be rendered unlawful to him, nor shall he be required to pay her Diyat, but, according to the more cautious opinion, he shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, though, according to the stronger opinion, he is not bound to do so.".
Clerics knew what the dangers were.
Other evidence that Clerics and Muhammed knew of the dangers:
czcams.com/video/HmP66xGpjGo/video.html the interviewer asks the father of Nujood Ali if he was not afraid intercourse could cause her injury. Which he confirms.
archive.org/details/b24871072/page/20/mode/2up
"Hindu Medicine: 17. Palaní: when a large man has connection with a small and young female, he injures the parts and produces this disease."
Risk of pregnancy:
1.Science says 25-30 is the age of least risk to mother and child for a first pregnancy.
www.pnas.org/content/113/19/5227
"With the onset of puberty, the female developmental trajectory diverges substantially from the childhood trajectory, whereas the male trajectory essentially continues its earlier course (Table S2). As a result, the female pelvis attains its obstetrically most favorable morphology around the age of 25-30 y, i.e., at the age of highest fertility"
This has been known by obstetricians and midwives for a long time.
archive.org/details/familyphysiciang00hamm/page/592/mode/2up The family physician and guide to health ... Including a treatise on midwifery and the diseases peculiar to women by Hammack, Elijah B Publication date 1869 Topics Medicine, Popular Publisher St. Louis, Southwestern book and publishing co.
"It is worthy of remark that marriage at too early an age is not conducive to health or longevity, but, on the contrary, the mortality among young married persons, I mean of married persons under the age of twenty, particularly women, is very great. I do not think that women ought to marry under twenty-two
2. The younger the mother, the greater the risk.
Childbearing in adolescents aged 12-15 years in low resource countries: a neglected issue. New estimates from demographic and household surveys in 42 countries obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1600-0412.2012.01467.x
""It is frequently cited that girls who give birth aged 15-19 are more than twice as likely to die as those in their 20s (1, 2). However, this fails to capture the fact that risk increases with decreasing age. ......girls aged 15 or under had an odds ratio for maternal death four times higher than women aged 20-24. "
3. It is not just mortality, it's fistulas. Science says it is a problem.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3877393/
"In sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia, obstetric fistula is very common, as access to and use of emergency obstetric care is limited ...... Several factors have been linked to the high occurrence of obstetric fistula in sub-Saharan Africa, including the preponderance of early marriage and teenage pregnancy, which in turn mean that the girls do not have pelvises which have sufficiently developed to allow reproduction [10]. This is further compounded by the poor nutritional status of most of the girls who live in these highly deprived settings [11,12]."
Aid-workers confirm death and fistulas are the problem:
www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html
"The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. ........ Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.
The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk."
4. Yes, but you do not have statistics on mortality for
@@ohana_is_family Cultural acceptance of intercourse with 9 year olds. There is no evidence of that.
Even his worst enemies didn't pick on this at that time because it was a normal marrage for that time.
Up to 1905 they may not have wanted to pick on child-bride-practices because they did not know what practtices they might come across in other cultures they encountered. By 1905 political marriages were already a thing of the past and even in the past they had been rare. NOT the norm.
@CZcams194i04p Soranus described the dangers of very early pregnancies 500 years before Muhammed and at the time of Muhammed the Roman, Persian ad Byzantine empires had implemented marriage age laws prohibiting intercourse with 9 year olds. So I am correct.
I am also correct that the mean age of first marriage is known to have been in the twenties since the 1400s. The wiki of the islam subreddit even quotes Jonathan Brown that the marriage age was in the twenties since the 1400s.
@ 2:58 but that's just it..if it was the norm in arab society to marry off that young, then why did her age need to be explicitly stated by narrators? I see it as though the narrator(s) had an axe to grind in order to justify a practice that may very well not have been approved. I agree more with the opinion of Myriam Francois-Cerrah on this issue (who ironically is also a fellow Georgetown graduate where she did her masters and is now in Oxford): www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth
She is a converted Muslim who tuned muslim apologist.
She misrepresents: "Because of this, it is impossible to know with any certainty how old Aisha was. What we do know is what the Qur'an says about marriage: that it is valid only between consenting adults, and that a woman has the right to choose her own spouse."
Farid quickly removed his tweet pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNrtNWXkAARPXf?format=jpg&name=medium when he says it canno tbe child rape if there is parental consent, but he did point out where Myriam's interpretation is wrong.
Islam has no minimum age for marriage and no clear definition of consent or maturity, how it is established or accepted. All 5 schools of Islam maintain that the Quran does not limit nikkah, so it can be contracted at any age, even if the girl is an infant. Consummation has only "the girl can bear it" in the 4 sunni schools and the age of 9 in the Shia school.
czcams.com/video/0LE3QARjIZg/video.htmlm20s three clerics arguing that there is no age-limit to marriage in shariah law and only "the girl must be able to bear it" as a criterium for intercourse for Sunnis. Masked Arab. The first cleric is recognisable as Dr. Ahmad Al-Mub'i
Khomeiny's book ‘Tahrir al Wasilah’. Translation: Dr. Sayyid Ali Reza Naqavi Pubished 2001 archive.org/details/TahrirAlVasilah/0000-tahrir%20j3-nA4/page/n441/mode/2up
"Problem # 12. Intercourse with a woman is not allowed unless she attains the age of nine years, regardless whether the marriage is permanent or temporary. There is, however, no objection in other enjoyments like touching lasciviously, hugging and rubbing the thighs, even with a suckling infant. If a
person has had intercourse with a girl before she has attained the age of nine years, but it has not resulted in ifda' he shall not be subjected to any punishment, except that he shall be considered to have committed a sin. If his intercourse has resulted in Ida'. so that the urinal and menstrual or the
menstrual and fecal passages have become one she shall be rendered perpetually prohibited to him though, according to the more cautious opinion, it shall be so in the latter case. In any case, according to the stronger opinion, she shall not cease to be his wife. So all the laws relating to her wifehood shall apply to her like mutual inheritance, prohibition on having a fifth wife, and the prohibition for the husband to marry her sister, etc. He shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, even if he divorces her, rather, according to the more cautious opinion, even if she marries another husband after the divorce by the first husband, rather it is not devoid of force, and he shall also be bound to pay the Diyat for Ilda' to her, and that is equal to the Diyat of a human being. If the wife is a free woman, she
shall receive half the Diyat of a man in addition to the dower to which she is entitled by virtue of the contract and consummation of marriage. If the husband performs intercourse with his wife after she has completed nine years of age, and it results in Ilda' , she shall neither be rendered unlawful to him, nor shall he be required to pay her Diyat, but, according to the more cautious opinion, he shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, though, according to the stronger opinion, he is not bound to do so.".
So even if many Muslims will claim 'maturity' and 'consent' are required, the process is not clearly defined and widely abused. It is not in the scriptures.
@@concerned_parent
Surah Talaq says girl has to be physically mature and be able to have menses in order to be married. Etymologically speaking, word for women means the ability to get pregnant. Elsewhere in Quran, in the context of handling property over to orphans, you can hand it to them when they reach a marriagable age. There definitely is references to it in the Quran, so perhaps you're not familiar with it. Are you Muslim or non-Muslim?
@@Vibestr I am activist against child-marriage so I have started building up some knowledge about Islam.
Ibn Kathir Tafsir archive.org/details/TafsirIbnKathir10Volumes-Alhamdulillah-library.blogspot.in.pdf/page/n5209/mode/2up " The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their ' Iddah is three months like those in menopause. "
So the Iddah in the Quran makes it clear that young girls who have not started menstruating yet need to wait the iddah of 90 days.
These laws have been applied:
www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/opinion/04kristof.html married at 8 divorced at 10
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8026545.stm 8 year old's wedding gets annulled from man in fifties.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7579616.stm 8 year old's files for divorce from 28 year old.
So it happens in practice even if countries often have age-laws.
irannewswire.org/the-plight-of-irans-little-brides-report-on-child-marriages/ noted that 176 girls under 10 were married in 2014.
This is related to the Nikkah and consummation for Shias being legal:
Khomeiny's book, ‘Tahrir al Wasilah’. Translation: Dr. Sayyid Ali Reza Naqavi Pubished 2001 archive.org/details/TahrirAlVasilah/0000-tahrir%20j3-nA4/page/n441/mode/2up
"Problem # 12. Intercourse with a woman is not allowed unless she attains the age of nine years, regardless whether the marriage is permanent or temporary. There is, however, no objection in other enjoyments like touching lasciviously, hugging and rubbing the thighs, even with a suckling infant. If a
person has had intercourse with a girl before she has attained the age of nine years, but it has not resulted in ifda' he shall not be subjected to any punishment, except that he shall be considered to have committed a sin. If his intercourse has resulted in Ida'. so that the urinal and menstrual or the
menstrual and fecal passages have become one she shall be rendered perpetually prohibited to him though, according to the more cautious opinion, it shall be so in the latter case. In any case, according to the stronger opinion, she shall not cease to be his wife. So all the laws relating to her wifehood shall apply to her like mutual inheritance, prohibition on having a fifth wife, and the prohibition for the husband to marry her sister, etc. He shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, even if he divorces her, rather, according to the more cautious opinion, even if she marries another husband after the divorce by the first husband, rather it is not devoid of force, and he shall also be bound to pay the Diyat for Ilda' to her, and that is equal to the Diyat of a human being. If the wife is a free woman, she
shall receive half the Diyat of a man in addition to the dower to which she is entitled by virtue of the contract and consummation of marriage. If the husband performs intercourse with his wife after she has completed nine years of age, and it results in Ilda' , she shall neither be rendered unlawful to him, nor shall he be required to pay her Diyat, but, according to the more cautious opinion, he shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, though, according to the stronger opinion, he is not bound to do so.".
Not a good example to follow in my opinion.
@@concerned_parent
Oh okay. Well that's good you got involved b/c stuff like this happens but it isn't because of islam. The Quran is clear about marriageable age. You citing the opinions of medieval scholars doesn't change the message of the Quran. If a woman stops having her menses, it doesn't make her a child again lol.
Child marriages was common during the medieval periods in all parts of the world, so it makes sense ibn Kathir would try to justify it. But Muslims don't regard him as God. The problem with Muslims is that they have a tendency to be more traditional and so respect these past scholars and their opinions.
Child marriage is more of an issue in the poorer parts of the world, muslim and non-Muslim countries alike. So tackling at it as a religious issue is not productive. Sure you can bring up the opinions of these scholars, but it isn't going to tackle the root of the problem.
@@Vibestr We will easily agree that income/wealth is related to child-marriage. Absolutely. If the incomes in Nepal, the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran etc. were double what they are today child marriage would be less of a problem.
I disagree that child marriage was supposedly high in the middle ages.
www.nber.org/papers/w17314 How the West 'Invented' Fertility Restriction, Nico Voigtländer & Hans-Joachim Voth, 2011. "Europeans restricted their fertility long before the Demographic Transition. By raising the marriage age of women and ensuring that a substantial proportion remained celibate, the "European Marriage Pattern" (EMP) reduced childbirths by up to one third between the 14th and 18th century." All historians know that Europeans married late.
Islam is the only religion I have come across where significant numbers promote child marriage and use Islam as part of the reasoning.
examples:
Shaykh Muhammed Al-Hasmi Islamic Scholar and member of Yemen’s Parliament. “No One has the right. Not the president, the parliament or anyone. To restrict something God has allowed. ….. Islam doesn’t specify an age for marriage. Why do they look into something that is not an issue. Why do they make a problem out of nothing. I want to ask: why is early marriage a problem?” czcams.com/video/HmP66xGpjGo/video.html '(Documentary child marriage and rape is still legal in Yeman (2013)'
But also CZcams comments:
A****** Replied: Marriage age must be at puberty. This is human right given by god."
S ******* replied: And when the girl begins her first menstrual cycle, she is no longer a child Allah says she is now a woman."
more clerics.
The nine-year-old child forced into marriage in Iraq czcams.com/video/bSFfjQ08t_k/video.htmlm28s clerics are blamed. Sheikh Mustafa Albayati at 4:28 argues
“Depends on readiness, Puberty is the threshold. When she’s fit for marriage and worthy of a husband she must marry” where he clearly means that a girls is ready for intercourse when she starts menstruating. Throughout the documentary intelligent, vocal girls object against child marriage.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42558328 Turkish child marriage religious document sparks anger Published3 January 2018
www.hrw.org/news/2017/12/17/iraq-parliament-rejects-marriage-8-year-old-girls Iraq: Parliament Rejects Marriage for 8-Year-Old Girls (2017)
Although there are countries like Saudi Arabia that actively seek to reduce child marriage, and there is ample evidence of parliamnetarians, activists, doctors etc. fighting child-marriage. So I am not saying all muslims favour it. But it is naive to deny that Islam is part of it.
czcams.com/video/YsN6z4mXkPI/video.htmlm30s Dr. Ahmad Al-Mu'bi Saudi Marriage Officiant: saying
“"The Prophet Muhammad is the model we follow. He took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was six, but he had sex with her only when she was nine."
Also look at marriage age on the Shia Al-islam website. Marriage Age for Girls it quotes Muhammed. The Noble Prophet (S) has said: "Virgin girls are like fruits on trees. If not plucked in time, the sun will rot them and the wind will disperse them. When girls reach maturity and their sexual instincts arise, like that of women, their only remedy is marriage. If they aren't married, they are prone to moral corruption. It is because they are human beings and human beings are prone to making mistakes."
Islam is a problem in child-marriage.
Excellent explanation on such a "hot button" topic. Indeed, with a westernized upbringing, we'll frown upon a marriage between someone as young as Aisha and as old as The prophet (peace be upon him).
1000 years before Muhammed Aristotle wrote: archive.org/details/0325323.nlm.nih.gov/page/n9/mode/2up 1817 edition.
Socrates indicates that menses usually starts at 14 or 15 and he indicates "Hippocrates holds, that a youth of fifteen years or between that and seventeen, having much vital strength, is capable of getting a child." Hippocrates 460-370 BC Socrates 479-399 BC.
They already knew it was dangerous to start intercourse at onset of menstruation and consdered waiting 1-2 years at least.
Bagnall, Roger S. The Demography of Roman Egypt. E-book, Cambridge [England]: Cambridge University Press, 1994, www.cambridge.org/core/books/demography-of-roman-egypt/marriage/EDC74C1C06DA145343594EA1D4001496
Use three centuries of Roman Census data (000-300) in Egypt to calculate age of first marriage.
The most common ages of first marriage appear to be roughly equally ascending from 14-23 and then starting to go down. 12-13 year olds were uncommon.
No clear evidence of early onset of menstruation and related low marriage age. Lower first marriage age than nowadays, but not spectacularly lower and fair numbers of 18-23 year olds.
The idea that in 7th c. Arabia and with their contemporaries it was considered normal to have intercourse with 9 year olds is nonsense. The risks are too high. The numbers of deaths and seriously injured would have been too high. 9 has ever in any society been "the norm".
There are many Hadith, in English, about Aisha's age they generally state as this Hadith does :
"It was narrated from 'Aishah that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine."
Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3255
It is graded as Sahih by some, but that is wrong.
These Hadith were transmitted by Hishaam ibn Urwa or sometimes it's just stated Hishaam, one and the same person.
When Hishaam grew old his memory suffered very badly and it was then that he transmitted these Hadith.
In the science of Hadith there are five conditions that must be met in order for a hadith to be graded as Sahih. One of the conditions is that the narrator have a high precision of memory.
Hishaam had a very bad memory and therefore doesn't meet the criteria in fact as his memory was very bad the Hadith is Apocryphal, Daef or false.
There is a Hadith transmitted by Umaartubnu Ghazeyah but he is listed as being Daef and therefore the Hadith is Daef.
The Hadith such as these are Apocryphal, Daef or false and many people do not know.
Asma, Aisha's sister, was 10 years older than Aisha. Asma died in 73 AH at 100. Which makes Aisha around 17 at the time of Hijra to Medina. She was conducted to her husband, Peace be upon him in a later Shawwal making her 19 years and 10 months old.
In The Holy Qur'an Allah says
"...Marry who seem good to you from THE WOMEN...' 4:3
Marry THE WOMEN NOT CHILDREN.
Extra knowledge:
The fourth chapter, The Women, starts with
"O' Mankind…" 4:1
and therefore the address is to Mankind.
In Hadith 10 from 40 Hadith an-Nawawi
It is noted that :
"Verily Allah commanded The Believers* because He commanded with it The Messengers and
Allah said "O' The Messengers Eat from The Good and Act Righteously"
and He said "O' Those who Believe* Eat from The Good which We provided you"..."
We note that Allah addresses The Messengers separately from The Believers* and this is true throughout the Qur'an.
Therefore, Allah begins Chapter 4 with :
"O' Mankind…" 4:1
and the address is to Mankind and excludes The Messenger, Muhammad, Peace be upon him.
As the chapter continues it still addresses Mankind and says :
"...Marry who seem good to you from THE WOMEN...' 4:3
This address is part of the address to Mankind and not to The Messenger Muhammad, Peace be upon him, who is excluded from this address.
However, Further along in The Chapter, The Women, Allah says :
"Allah wishes to make clear for you and guide you to The Practices of those from before you…" 4:26
In this verse which is still addressing Mankind Allah says He makes clear for you, Mankind, and guides you, Mankind, to The Practices of those from before you, and The practices of those before you is to, as Allah says :
"...Marry who seem good to you from THE WOMEN...' 4:3
and those before you are The Prophets.
All The Prophets from before their practice was to marry Women NOT children exonerating them from any and all blame.
and Allah says :
"...Never will you find in The Practice of Allah A Changing…" 35:43 and their other verse from elsewhere in The Quran.
And no changing in The Practice of Allah in respect to The messenger of Allah, Muhammad, Peace be upon him.
The Prophet Muhammad's practice was already in line with The Practice of The Prophets from before that he and they only married women and therefore it was not necessary to address him,Peace be upon him, when Allah began The Chapter, The Women, with " O' Mankind…".
Allah makes clear and guides Mankind to The Practice of those before us namely The Prophets and The Practice of Muhammad, Peace be upon him, in which there was no change in that practice from before to :
"...Marry who seem good to you from THE WOMEN...' 4:3
Marry THE WOMEN NOT THE CHILDREN.
There is more evidence but it would make this too long.
so does God adjust his morals and values with man?
Doesn’t Islam claim that Muhammad is the perfect role model for all time?
If yes, doesn’t that make Islam unable to oppose pedophilia?
Why should they promote this when prophet (saw) commanded us not to do so.
I do..
even the prophet(peace be upon him ) worst enemies have no objection on this marriage ,wy some non muslims are worried?what is your prob
because they are obscessed with the idea of just criticize any thing whether it is rational or irrational
Muslims argue that islam is a religion governing and applicable in all times; on the other hand, there is a verse in the quran saying that muhammad is a good example to people. Now why don't muslims marry girls with 45 years age difference (Aisha was 9 while he was 54)? (sorry some rich men do such marriages in pakistan, afghanistan, iran and s.arabia) and why no muslim has ever married a divorced daughter-in-law as every action of the "prophet" was examplar?!
Why would Prophet even ask for her consent at 6? he should have just said it is not the time to get married at 6 whether you consummate it or not. Let's wait for your opinion when you reach puberty and then do the marriage contract.
Is there a link to full lecture? Pls
Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him married off his daughter Hazrat bibi fatima off at the age of 18 , I wonder why is that not considered a sunnah worth following , instead of making so much fuss about Hazrat bibi Ayesh'a age at the time of her wedding.
Adnan rashid in the background lol.
Again "Prophets" that claim to be sent God, yet act as Common as the People around them, that is rather suspect. If you're going to be legit than you should have some bedrock morals. Marrying someone that, even though has reached physical menstruation, is very "ill-advised" considering THEY HAVEN'T MENTAL MATURITY TO CONSENT TO MARRIAGE.
Raffaele Demonte
Quran 4:19:
“O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.”
My question is : why don't you get agitated about that?
sounds like Adnan Rashid @ 1:18 from speakers corner Hyde park
It is Adnan Rashid :)
Wait until "woman able to bear it?"
No innocuous ideology.
you said " The qur'an tells muslims to lie to each other"
I must read a different quran,cause what you claim is no where to be seen.
mahesh alur and how many wives did LORD KRISHNA have buddy !!!!!
I have actually defended muhammad's morality to non-muslims. I point out that most men at that time and place would not have waited three years before taking Aisha sexually. That muhammad's ethics were better than the people surrounding him. If that video you suggests says Aisha was 17 or 18 when they married that is a recent lie started by the clerics. No 'credible' islamic scholar promotes that or believes that. Why would muhammad wait three years for a girl of age before 'knowing' her?
Well, the fact that her sister was ten years older than aisha kinda bombs the whole "aisha was nine when she married the prophet" ordeal. Because her sister was 27 during the first year of the Hajj and that means that aisha was at least 17 turning 18. During the second year, Aisha got married with the prophet and she was 19 turning 20. Also, in one of the battles, only girls over the age of 15 were allowed in. A strict age limit. Kinda like (i hate using this example) you have to be at least 18 to enter a club or else the guard wont let you in. Which means that Aisha of course had to be older than 15.
These are historical facts that contradict the Hadith, kinda like how scientific facts contradict the bible. Since the hadiths are NOT THE WORD OF GOD, i am under no obligation to believe in them fully. Anyone can tell that it is wrong to have sex with a child, no matter how much you try to justify it (God forgive me for this opinion). I understand that some people say "Oh Aisha went through puberty at a young age" and this and that, but if you believe that the Prophet was sinless, you gotta believe that Aisha wasn't a child when a 53 year old man decided to marry her.
+firstname lastname Do you not see the irony in the fact that you're using information from other hadiths to refute a particular hadith all the while maintaining that you don't believe in hadiths?
HISTORY REFERENCES From
Islamic history:
SUNAN NASA‘I Nasa’i, Abu abd-ur Rahman Ahmad,
“Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text”, rendered
into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui, Kazi Publication, Lahore,
Pakistan; first edition, 1994, Volume 1, p. 108 "
… When Hadrat
Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad
(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness…
‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away."
SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH al-Qazwini, Abū ʻAbdillāh Muḥammad ibn Yazīd
Ibn Mājah al-Rabʻī, “Sunan Ibn-I-Majah”, English version by
Muhammad Tufail Ansari Kazi Publications, Lahore Pakistan, first
edition, 1995, volume III, pp. 133-134
My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to
me while I was (playing) in a swing along with [sic] my play-mates.
She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know
what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door
of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of
my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face
and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of
Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered
with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother)
entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened
me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
(when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me
to him. On that day, I was a nine years old girl."
IBN HISHAM He
married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived
with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin
that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the
apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah
(The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume : Oxford
University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995, p. 792)
AL-TABARI
The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated
by M.V. McDonald annotated by W. Montgomery Watt: State University of
New York Press, Albany 1987, Volume VII, pp. 6-7 In this year also
the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This
was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival
in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623)
seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married
her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of
Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts,
seven years old. ...Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person
came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O
so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said,
"Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan
asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are
nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except
for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say
this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are
these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my
likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my
marriage was consummated when I was nine; ... He turned to her
husband al-Mut‘im and said, "What is she saying?" He
replied, "She says [what you have heard]." Abu Bakr left,
[realizing that] God had [just] removed the problem he had in his
mind. He said to Khawlah, "Call the Messenger of God." She
called him and he came. Abu Bakr married [‘A’ishah] to him when
she was [only] six years old. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last
Years of the Prophet, translated and annotated by Ismail K. Poonawala
[State University of New York Press, Albany 1990], Volume IX, pp.
129-130 ... ‘Ali b. Nasr- ‘Abd al-Samad b. ‘Abd al-Warith- ‘Abd
al-Warith b. ‘Abd al-Samad- his father- Aban al-‘Attar- Hisham b.
‘Urwah- ‘Urwah: He wrote to ‘Abd al-Malik b. Marwan stating
that he had written to him about Khadijah bt. Khuwaylid, asking him
about when she died. She died three years or close to that before the
Messenger of God’s departure from Mecca, and he married ‘A’ishah
after Khadijah’s death. The Messenger of God saw ‘A’ishah
twice- [first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was
six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated she was
nine years old. ... [The Prophet] married her three years before the
Emigration, when she was seven years old, and consummated the
marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to
Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. The
Messenger of God did not marry any maiden except her. (The History of
al-Tabari, Volume IX, pp. 130-131)
what's the name of this speaker?
pls put subtitles
I don't question the authenticity of the Hadith or that she has said what she said about her age. But I question her knowledge of her age. Do you think people knew how old they really were? Arabs kept and recorded time rarely and loosely and only for important events. So they say this event happened some years after this event. Arabs almost never worried about documenting events and especially birthdays. Until very recently people and especially Arabs didn't care about birthdays. They counted very loosely with the number 7 meaning a lot. So if I say a certain event was 7 years after another then it could mean it happened after a significant number of years and not really 7. And they didn't have a point zero to record from. They have a significant event and they date another event based on it then they date the next based on the new one. And they all are not precise. Take the age of Muhammad peace be upon him. Arab historians date his birth to the day of the elephant. So he was born some time near the year the war against Macca was waged using elephants as armored vehicles.
My grandfather and grandmother, in the early 1900s didn't know their own birthdays. And when public records were created they had to estimate their age with +-5 years. And they had WW1 as a reference. And that's only a hundred years ago. So they ask my grandpa or his uncles, "how many years, do you think, after or before the big war was this person born?". And uncles or parents of such people rarely knew exact numbers because they didn't celebrate birthdays and had too many kids and nieces and nephews to really keep count. And a person would be even less of authentic estimator of their age than their elders. So I would take Aisha's older sister or father's estimate of Aisha's birthday more than her own estimate of her birthday for people are aware of age and time different from a somewhat unbiased observer.
Because I don't view the past with the eyes of the present? Because I have the right perspective towards history, not a superficial and self righteous one?
Ya I don't get agitated about that.
This guy questioning is never going to be happy... I hope he has become more nature now
Is that Adam Deen being told why so agitated ?
yes its adam deen the modernist
Not only is it in the qur'an it is in any clerics teachings. Are you seriously telling me that as a muslim you haven't been told it is okay to lie??? islam got this concept from somewhere. Islam gives 3 cases. 1 In war, which is understandable. 2 in settling disputes even between muslims. Which I personally have a problem with. 3 to family. Can I ask who is left??? I understand you missing them when reading the qur'an, it is a jumbled up mess and is incoherent.
That my Scottish ancestors in their ignorance probably did the same, testifies to their ignorance. That Mohammad did it testifies to his not being the prophet he claimed to be. That others did the same, is not a defense for a man claiming to be the prophet of an all-knowing God.
Sex with underage girls harms them (this is a medical fact) so as evidenced by the FACT they she was never able to have children of her own, Mohammad harmed a little girl. Did God not tell Mohammad about the dangerous medical realities of underage sex for girls? Or did Mohammad simply not listen to God?
That's probably not the worst thing he did to her - She sat next to Mohammad as she watched his men rape the wife's of hundreds of men then cut their heads off.
Sorry, the obvious choices are that either God condones harming little girls, or Mohammad was not a prophet.
sex with under age girls harms them really? A girl who has become of age? Sex the first time no matter the age it hurts . Now a child who hasn't become of age is not in puberty and not considered a woman so that would be unacceptable. Joseph didn't have sex with Mary until after the birth of Jesus so that would make her almost 13 but that means she had a baby at 12 so did it harm her?
juannifer32 Yes sex with under age girls harms them, really! I didn't say hurts, I said harms them lone term harm. You need to have a conversation with a doctor. A girl beginning her period is not always a clear indication a girl is physically ready for sexual intercourse. Not to mention the higher percentage of problems with the pregnancy or child.
+Tj Bradders but there is no indication either that Aisha,r.a., was harmed. So she must have been old enough and ready for marital relations. She quite clearly says that she was extremely jealous of his other wives, one rival in particular. She would not have said such things professing her love if she had hated her husband or been abused. The Quran doesn't say how old she was. But she would've given her consent, in all probability. Also, she was already had another marriage request before Muhammad's, pbuh. This is what other Muslims have said, like Fadel Solaiman. Allah knows best.
You need to try and debate that issue with your doctor. Jane Dughatir
I don't think you'll beleive me, even if I feed you facts.
BTW she was so damaged she never had children. A common problem childhood rape.
Was she the only woman who never had children in the history of the world? Not a proof of anything.
you dont have to go that far, in the us till 100 years ago marriage age was 10 in many states, in Delware was 7.. though America, or any country for that matter, is not our point of reference for our Islamic values and ethics.
Look no further, he made a joke about a boy in a desert with only goats, and they laughed about that image, which is wrong to say or joke about anyway nor I found it funny at all, what makes it funny!! but that is not the points anyway here, the point is that joke shows how people imagery and way of life has changed in big cities, that even him, may God give him jannah, and some brother even them laughed at this, when 100 years ago it was the norm in many many countries. The hadith may carry error, but even if it not, people till recently married around that age.
Check the age of death of our prophet in Bukhari ,60, in another 63, in another 65 . IN BUKHARI, obviously one is the right, most say 63, but that illustrate a point that error is not crime, that people confused people ages.. if this confusion happen to the age of the MOST IMPORTANT FIGURE IN ISLAM then buckhari hadith may have little error here and there, still it is 100% reliable, in fact ibn hazam either used or coined a term called Mughamat when he was questioning an Athar, act of compinion, in Buckhari, and Mughamat means hadiths forced into the Buckhari, meaning added to it by someones.. some say a dozen or 2.. God protected Quran, Buckhari is the greatest book after it, and had over 40000 hadith, that is less than half percent.
By the way I do not see saying a dozen or 2 of errors, should make all hadith crumbled, what kind logic is this! if it were possible God would not say about Koran "this is a book where there is no doubt" .. the haters will never give our prophet Justice even if he were to perform miracles to cure them from all diseases and bring them their dead love ones... Some humans just hate to believe and live by rules made by God. Hence the ETERNAL fire exist, for a reason.
by the way in rural europe what did they have! grass and pine trees and waters and cows, where is the superiority it is God planet, and he chose that region, Arabia , as the birth of the last massage, this illustrate that society judgement is not universal ever, there is no universal right or wrong when it comes to common sense to do, marry etc depending on circumstances needs.
@@sutil5078 There is the biological truth that if you get pregnant at too early an age you are likely to die.
www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html in tropical Africa where young girls work.
"The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor. Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. .......... Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.
The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.
The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk."
1.Science says 25-30 is the age of least risk to mother and child for a first pregnancy.
www.pnas.org/content/113/19/5227
"With the onset of puberty, the female developmental trajectory diverges substantially from the childhood trajectory, whereas the male trajectory essentially continues its earlier course (Table S2). As a result, the female pelvis attains its obstetrically most favorable morphology around the age of 25-30 y, i.e., at the age of highest fertility"
2. The younger the mother, the greater the risk.
Childbearing in adolescents aged 12-15 years in low resource countries: a neglected issue. New estimates from demographic and household surveys in 42 countries obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1600-0412.2012.01467.x
""It is frequently cited that girls who give birth aged 15-19 are more than twice as likely to die as those in their 20s (1, 2). However, this fails to capture the fact that risk increases with decreasing age. ......girls aged 15 or under had an odds ratio for maternal death four times higher than women aged 20-24. "
The reason there are no separate statistics with the risks to 9 year olds is that the cases are too rare to have statistic on. Yet you would argue that it was "normal" or "the norm" in 7th c. Arabia???? Nonsense. Muhammed put Aisha at serious risk of harm.
Khomeiny's book ‘Tahrir al Wasilah’. Translation: Dr. Sayyid Ali Reza Naqavi Pubished 2001 archive.org/details/TahrirAlVasilah/0000-tahrir%20j3-nA4/page/n441/mode/2up
"Problem # 12. Intercourse with a woman is not allowed unless she attains the age of nine years, regardless whether the marriage is permanent or temporary. There is, however, no objection in other enjoyments like touching lasciviously, hugging and rubbing the thighs, even with a suckling infant. If a
person has had intercourse with a girl before she has attained the age of nine years, but it has not resulted in ifda' he shall not be subjected to any punishment, except that he shall be considered to have committed a sin. If his intercourse has resulted in Ida'. so that the urinal and menstrual or the
menstrual and fecal passages have become one she shall be rendered perpetually prohibited to him though, according to the more cautious opinion, it shall be so in the latter case. In any case, according to the stronger opinion, she shall not cease to be his wife. So all the laws relating to her wifehood shall apply to her like mutual inheritance, prohibition on having a fifth wife, and the prohibition for the husband to marry her sister, etc. He shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, even if he divorces her, rather, according to the more cautious opinion, even if she marries another husband after the divorce by the first husband, rather it is not devoid of force, and he shall also be bound to pay the Diyat for Ilda' to her, and that is equal to the Diyat of a human being. If the wife is a free woman, she
shall receive half the Diyat of a man in addition to the dower to which she is entitled by virtue of the contract and consummation of marriage. If the husband performs intercourse with his wife after she has completed nine years of age, and it results in Ilda' , she shall neither be rendered unlawful to him, nor shall he be required to pay her Diyat, but, according to the more cautious opinion, he shall be bound to maintain her as long as she is alive, though, according to the stronger opinion, he is not bound to do so.".
Clerics knew what the dangers were.
Other evidence that Clerics and Muhammed knew of the dangers:
czcams.com/video/HmP66xGpjGo/video.html the interviewer asks the father of Nujood Ali if he was not afraid intercourse could cause her injury. Which he confirms.
archive.org/details/b24871072/page/20/mode/2up
"Hindu Medicine: 17. Palaní: when a large man has connection with a small
and young female, he injures the parts and produces this disease."
Important point:
Anybody who claims intercourse at the onset of puberty, the onset of menstruation is a great idea should be sent back as a 9 year old girl who's just had her first period and is about to be impregnated by her 54 year old hubby. See how it feels to be at very high risk of serious injury and complications.
The US Census holds tables with the Mean Age at First Marriage for girls www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/marital.html which was in the twenties throughout.
Muhammed would habe tended the flocks of his Uncle and later of his first wife and he would have known to keep females and males apart to prevent too early pregnancies. Like below. But he did not use that knowledge when he had intercourse with a 9 year old.
Goats:
www.goatfarmers.com/blog/goat-breeding%2F
"Age to Start Breeding
Be careful not to breed your goats at too young of an age. Why? Because a doe's body isn't prepared to grow and deliver a kid safely until A doe can reach puberty and be ready to conceive in as little as 4 to 12 months of age. That doesn't mean her body is prepared for the process. "
Horses:
www.wikihow.com/Breed-a-Horse
Be sure the mare is the right age for breeding. The best age to breed a mare for the first time is once she has finished growing herself, at around three to four years of age. It is possible to breed from 18 months, but this places a lot of demands on the body of a mare that is still growing itself. [6]
Cows/oxen:
www.wikihow.com/Know-when-a-Heifer-or-Cow-Is-Ready-to-Be-Bred
"Usually it's best to wait until they are at least 15 months of age before breeding. Even though the early maturing breeds do reach puberty by the time they are around 7 to 9 months of age, it is best to wait until they are around 13 to 15 months of age before you can breed them.[1] This is because it allows them to grow more, increase their pelvic area and gain enough condition that can allow them to sustain themselves throughout gestation. Heifers that are bred too early tend to have too small a pelvic area to calve out,"
Not a perfect example. Not a perfect human being.
@@ohana_is_family When Muslims try to depict the West as depraved they usually leave out most common historical knowledge which says we were marrying late.
@@ohana_is_family Yes: why did Muhammed separate heifers from bulls again?
Salam. Does anyone know where this was filmed? And if the rest of the discussion is available online?
This guy: anything we can prove is false was meant figuratively. All else is true and literal unless it's proven false then it becomes figurative.
yes exactly, this is a strategy of many religious people
@@SilvaMorasten @Brian Clone
This is hadith, not Qur'an, In Qur'an Allah always says that if he were to say something figuratively he would state it beforehand
hadith doesnt have the same feature, to give a hadith the status of Sahih (valid/sound), you need to first validate the chain of transmissions, and then verify the content, the content needs to not contradict the Qur'an, and not contradict strong empirical reality. Like that hadith about the "2months never short" for example, they knew how to count day month and year in the time of the prophet, it doesn't make sense for a prophet to say that statement nor for anyone to say that statement literally, because everyone knew at the time that thats not true, so you have to interpret it figuratively.
If you are accusing the scholar of insincerity, then why doesnt he interpret the age of aisha hadith figuratively? its an easy way out, but he didnt do that right? why is that? because that would be an insincere thing to do. Please guys, i know you guys hate religion and think that you are some big brain atheists and all religions are dumb, but just be sincere and honest for a second and throw out your biases against religion.
Who is this guy ? Is he muslim?
LOL Are you seriously suggesting that muhammad's marriage to a six year old can be justified because he had married a woman that was older than he was at one time??? I think a 40 year old woman who was financially well off and appeared to be mental stable and old enough to decide for herself if she wanted marriage is a far cry from a six year old girl. I forgot in islam if a woman is too terrified to answer that is a yes answer!!! How could anyone assume a six year old is of consent age???
She wasn't terrified she was shy there is a difference. She could have easily went to her mother or father and said I don't want this marriage and it would not have happened there is no marriage without consent if the bride!
Marriage contracts and the actual wedding taking place is two different things
I am sure you heard of a prince and a princess they had to wed each other they are prepared since birth. Unfortunately in their case the girl had no choice in the matter.
In Islam the woman has a choice and can say no and can't be forced if they are forced the marriage is not valid and Islam doesn't allow forced marriages
Wrong. If we accept Ayesha's age at marriage we just accept Ayesha's age at marriage. It doesn't necessarily have legal implications today for many reasons; i) Longer life expectancy means longer childhood, therefore the "emotional immaturity" argument can be applied today, but not 1400 years ago. ii) We have to protect girls in places where they get married or sold against their will. iii) Why are we assuming Ayesha knew her exact age? They didn't have birth certificates back then.
yes.....but he is not a role model
The questioner is acting like an interrogator. Like calm down man
Watch the link I posted
qur'an 16:106,"Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief - save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith - but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom."
Matthew 5:10-12 Says you proclaim G_d's word even if it means being persecuted for it.
muhammad says deny your faith. Jesus said proclaim it even to your enemies. So the qur'an does set up times for muslims to lie EVEN ABOUT THEIR FAITH!!! Note that last part!
Sorry Sir, I am surprised the prophet was 'illuminated' to be a Prophet but totally in the 'dark' or better still blind to see that the little girl he and his countrymen took for wives were not children.
+Monica Chelagat
You are nothing but showing good share of ignorance!
This is how you think. Sorry your speech is not convincing to me but perhaps to the brighter ones. Wishing you well despite my ignorance. You response is enough to tell me how radical you are though. There is no room for exchange of views.
Monica Chelagat
Your comment told that about you!
It is only an opinion. You should be prepared to hear all sorts. I enjoyed the video despite my small criticism. Thank you.
Monica Chelagat
Your opinion is not valid but had previous resentment
These questions are so stupid.
Jonathan seems agitated and uncomfortable answering the question. He had to open up.... Case close
Only case closed if you accept his argument that it was supposedly normal in the West as well. But it was not.
www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/marital.html has the stats till 1890 and the norm was to wait with marriage until one had turned 21 at least.
archive.org/details/annualreportofre171854grea/page/n15/mode/2up Annual report of the Registrar-General of births, deaths and marriages in England. General Register Office. Government publishing marriage-statistics 1856.
"Marriages of minors.-9210 men and 28,797 women, or 38,007 men and women, married under 21 years of age ; so that the proportion of minors in 100 men who married was 5.77, in 100 women 18.03;"
82% of marriages the woman had waited until she was an adult (21 or older).
18% married as a minor and had to get permission. Of course in these bell curves the majority of young women were closer to 21 and only few were young.
So it is simply not true. The norm was to wait at least until adult-hood at 21.
Your understanding of sunnah is incorrect. There are certain sunnah that is haram. There are certain sunnah that are mubah and there are certain sunnah that are recommended.
Aisha was about 16 years old not 6 or 9!!! Hadiths are not 100%...
Are you an imbecile? Have you not watched the clip? Her cherry was popped when she was 9, bruv.
27:22 -- LOOOOOOOLLL ;D :"D
In Biblical times people were married at a very young age. Girls were usually betrothed before they reached puberty - majority of the time the marriage would have consummated when the girl reached puberty, and that was usually between the ages of 8, 9 or older,(Note: when a girl reached puberty prior to the 20th century, she was considered to be an adult in most cultures/societies). There was no law against a pre-pubescent girl being married off. For example in the bible, Isaac was 37 years old when Rebecca was born. When Rebecca was 3 years and one day old, she was married to Isaac. Mary was 12 years old when she married Joseph the Carpenter who was 90 years old.The bible sanctions pre-pubescent marriages:Bible (Numbers 31:17-18)"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."
King David was 70 years old when he married Abishag who was 12 and a half years old. ( 1 Kings 1-3, Young "Na'arah" maid means virgin that is unable to conceive after marriage because she has not yet reached puberty). In 1396 at age 29, King Richard ii of England married 6 year old Isabella of Valois.King John married Isabella when she was 12 years old.
Joan of France married King Louis Xii in 1476 at the age of 12 was promised the French throne 8 days after she was born.
Edward J. Wood says that Thomas Lord Berkley was contracted to a girl who was at the time 7 years old and were to consummate the marriage 4 years later, but due to illness the marriage was consummated the following year,“Thomas, Lord Berkeley, was contracted to Margaret, daughter of Gerald Warren, Lord Lisle, in the forty-first year of Edward III.; and by reason of her tender age- she was then only about seven years old- it was arranged that she should remain with her father for four years; but sickness happening in the family, they were married in the November following.”
Professor of history Margaret Wade Labarge “It needs to be remembered that many Medieval widows were not old, Important heiresses were often married between the ages of 5 and 10 and might find themselves widowed while still in their teens.”
Professor of Sociology Anthony Joseph Paul Cortese says that a 50 year old man being with a girl under 10 (being intimate) Under United States law was legal until the mid 1960s,“In 1962, the American Law Institute recommended that the legal age of consent to sex- that is, the age below which sex is defined as statutory rape- be dropped in every state to age 10 (Katchadourian and Lund 1972: 439). In fact, until the mid 1960s, the legal age of consent in Delaware was 7 (Kling, 1965: 216). So a 50 year old man could legally have sexual intercourse with a 7 year old boy or girl.”
In the book, ‘Sex and Society’,“Until the late 20th century U.S. age of consent laws specifically names males as perpetrators and females as victims. Following English law, in which the age was set at 12 in 1275 and lowered to 10 in 1576, ages of consent in the American colonies were generally set at 10 or 12. The laws protected female virginity, which at the time was considered a valuable commodity until marriage. The theft of a girl’s chastity was seen as a property crime against her father and future husband. If two people were married and had sex, no matter what their age, no crime was committed because a woman was her husband’s property. In practice, too, the consent laws only protected white females, as many non-white females were enslaved or otherwise discriminated against by the legal system.”
Richard A. Posner is chief judge of the U.S court of appeals, Seventh Circuit Chicago. Katherine B. Silbaugh is associate Professor at Boston University School of Law, they say that before the 1900s age of consent was ten years old,“The law governing the age of consent has changed dramatically in the United States during this century. Most states codified a statutory age of consent during the nineteenth century, and the usual age was ten years.”
Caryn Neumann stated:“Historically the age of consent was set somewhere between 10 and 13 years, depending on the Era and the culture, and tending to coincide with female puberty. In modern United States, the age of consent ranges from 14 - 18 years with 16 years as the standard.”
There is much evidence historically speaking that marriage was allowed at a very young age in the past. In Islam, marriage can be consummated from the age of puberty and there is no fault in it. Puberty is the sign of adulthood and also the age of responsibility in Islam. Marriage is a contract between two consenting adults and has been legal from a very young age in the past. Kings were allowed to marry whomsoever they wished and also regardless of their age. They married as many wives as they chose (e.g King Henry Viii) and also married in their bloodlines. A prophet has all the more reason to be entitled to marry whomsoever he wishes as for example King David (A.S). As for what is acceptable in society in this day and age is a matter of debate. Therefore Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married according to what was normal practice in those days. Islam does not allow forcing women to marry at a young age so there should be no problem if Islam is followed correctly. I see people are holding double standards and anti-semitic when they attack Islam.
Bagnall, Roger S. The Demography of Roman Egypt. E-book, Cambridge [England]: Cambridge University Press, 1994, www.cambridge.org/core/books/demography-of-roman-egypt/marriage/EDC74C1C06DA145343594EA1D4001496
Use three centuries of Roman Census data (000-300) in Egypt to calculate age of first marriage.
The most common ages of first marriage appear to be roughly equally ascending from 14-23 and then starting to go down. 12-13 year olds were uncommon.
No clear evidence of early onset of menstruation and related low marriage age. Lower first marriage age than nowadays, but not spectacularly lower and fair numbers of 18-23 year olds.
So marriage Ages already existed before Muhammed and people did not start having intercourse at 9 because that would have been too dangerous.
archive.org/details/0325323.nlm.nih.gov/page/n9/mode/2up 1817 edition.
Socrates indicates that menses usually starts at 14 or 15 and he indicates "Hippocrates holds, that a youth of fifteen years or between that and seventeen, having much vital strength, is capable of getting a child."
Hippocrates 460-370 BC, Socrates 479-399 BC
Aristotle and Hippocrates were widely used in Peria/Arbia and even 1000 years before Muhammed they knew to wait 1 or 2 years until after onset of menstruation to risk pregnancy.
Muhamed took very high risks that were known with Aisha as a 9 year old. Not a perfect human being. Not a perfect example to follow.
crazy white guy
So because people did it. Then it's right ! The issue is he was Gods messenger he should have known better
+MAKS6665 so because people not do it, then it is right ! ... think deeper and not just being a meager brainwash stereotype.
+rzl ok I get you fack small girls bcs. Everybody thinks its ok . Crap religion gives crap ideology
see having a small mind again, firstly by not realizing that the philosophical thought of " so because people not do it, then it is right ! " is wrong, secondly you are too eager to make yourself looks good by jumping the gun to judge others of all the most extreme negative aspect to distinguish the differences in these case by insinuating that "you fack small girls bcs. Everybody thinks its ok " .
I want to know about your thought, so I would like to ask you is f**king is all you can think of about marriage,?
Secondly, from your thought or your guilt conscious, at what age is the bare minimum for someone to get marry while without you can judge it as a wrong things to do ?.
+rzl ;If you cant see the falsity of your prophet in his Paedophile behavior then you are the definition of being brainwashed. This little brat became Muslim when he was 19 and now wastes all his time trying to justify the illogical
Aisha did NOT exist, she is a fictional character invented by Shia (to
be the enemy of Ali). The Shia made Aisha fight Ali in battle of the
camel . The Sunnis claimed that Aisha is the wife of Muhammad. Both
Shia and Sunnah believed these 2 lies. After that a problem arose. The
age of marriage of Aisha. Because the battle of the camel was at year
35H,while Muhammad died at year 11H. So in order for Aisha to fight Ali
she must be (not so old) , so they made her marry the prophet as a
child.
The ahadiths reported by Aisha were mostly false. Hadith Maghafir is the best proof. See surat Tahrim. And if one would give himself the trouble to search in history books, he would find that Aisha was 19 yrs old when she was married ! Her sister Asma was 10 yrs older than her and she (Asma) was 20 yrs old during the migration. He who wants the truth has to sweat for it !!
Total nonsense. You know very well that Sahih Al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are regarded as the most authentic and authoritative books, after Al-Quran. Both quote A'isha being 6 (marriage) and 9 (consummated). Naughty boy!
meandillar07 You still missed out the point and tried to be funny, didn't you?
Marriage of our mother Aisha (ra) with our Prophet (S) is brought into dispute by islamophobes. Below are some of the examples from their own history which can be used to reply such people
Examples
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According to the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia, apocryphal accounts that, at the time of her betrothal to Joseph, Mary, the mother of Jesus, was 12-14 years old
Isabelle of France (1389-1409), oldest daughter of King Charles VI, was not quite seven years old when she married king Richard II of England as his second wife in 1396
Lady Margaret Beaufort , mother of king Henry VII, married five times. First marriage when she was around 1 - 3 years old, dissolved after 3 years. 2nd marriage at the age of 12 in 1455, when she married Edmond Tudor, half brother of Henry VI
Caterina Sforza born in 1463. She was an Italian noblewoman and a Countess of Forlì married Girolamo Riario (nephew of Pope Sixtus IV), in 1473 (she’s 10 yrs old)
Anne de Mowbray, 8th countess of Norfolk was aged 6 when she got married to Richard Shrewsbury, 1st duke of York who was 4years old, in 1477
Joan of France, d/o King Louis married On 8 September 1476, at the age of 12, Joan was married to Duke of Orleans
Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13 (1350), and aged 14 when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351). Theodora Comnena was aged 13 when she married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158). Agnes of France, Byzantine empress, born in 1171, became childbride of Alexius II Comnenus - Byzantine emperor (killed in 1183), at the age of 9. She married Andronicus I Comnenus, Byzantine emperor (r. 1183-1185), in 1183, she was 12. St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12 when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.
Lucrezia Borgia was a Spanish-Italian noblewoman, the daughter of Pope Alexander VI and his mistress Vannozza dei Cattanei. She was born in 1480. Her 1st marriage at the age of 11, annulled 2 months later. 2nd marriage with Spaniard, 15-year-old Don Gaspare, This too was annulled that same year. 3rd marriage, 13-year-old Lucrezia married to Giovanni Sforza in 1493, Annulled 1497. Her 4th marriage at the age of 17, in 1498, widowed two years later (husband murdered). Her 5th marriage in 1501. She died 1519 Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5 and married aged 15
Shiva married Sati she was 6 years old... After Sati’s death shiva married Pravati who was 8 years old
Marie Antoinette got married In 1770, when she was only 14 years old, she was married to the French dauphin Louis, the grandson of the then-king Louis XV,
Mary (queen of Scots), first marriage when she was 15, she married Francis, the heir to the French throne
King Stephen’s wife, Matilda, was only 14 in 1119 at the time of marriage
King John’s 2nd wife was Isabella of Angoulême, who was only about 13 when she married him in 1200. Isabella’s eldest son, Henry III, succeeded to the throne married Eleanor of Provence who was only 13
Queen of Poland Jadwiga, 1374-1399, married in 1386 when she was only 12
Gisela of Hungary, b. 985, daughter of Henry II, Duke of Bavaria and Gisela of Burgundy.She married King Stephen I of Hungary in 995, when she was 10
Empress Elisabeth of Austria married at the age of 16
Beatrice of Vermandois (880-931), became queen of France when married Robert, king of France around 893 or 895, age between 13-15
Bertha of Swabia, born 907, became queen of Burgundy when she got married in 922 at the age of 15, to Rudolph II king of Burgundy
Imp Book to read
Colorado historian Nicholas Syrett's new book "American Child Bride" is filled with anecdotes about very young women--one as young as 9--marrying much older men.
Ref from this book -
The marriage of legal children, in fact, has been relatively common throughout U.S. history. The U.S. Census Bureau did not link age with marital status till 1880, which makes national figures unavailable before that time. But in that year 11.7 percent of fifteen-to-nineteen-year-old girls were wives (the census did not specify exact age and marital status till 1910). That number dipped in 1890 and then increased incrementally through the 1920s to 12.6 percent in 1930
You are justifying it by comparing the actions of the "messenger of God" to a bunch kings and saying it was the norm back then. How can you not question your self writing all of that bull crap. You are saying they did it too, so it's okay.
@@tellmethis6836 ... prophets are not some extra terrestrial species. They are human beings with human values, chosen from human beings. Your objection in this regard has absolutely no basis at all. Your elders have been marrying 2/3/5 year olds just up until 150 years ago
Do not complain of your neighbour’s roof when your own doorstep is unclean
@@saabsabi8963 You are assuming a lot about me. Fuck my "olders" for all the wrongs they have done. I have no interest in comparing whose country committed more atrocities.
Mohammed is supposedly the messenger of God and he revealed the human values that we should abide by at any point in time. In a way he was more special than an extraterrestrial, he was supposedly the one god communicated with verbally.
So as a Muslim, you need to ask yourself, is having sex with a 9 year old what we want to have in our society? Because if Mohammed was doing the wrong thing, god should have revealed to him that it was wrong, the same way a verse was revealed which allowed people to marry their step sons wife. Which ironically allowed him to add another wife to his harem.
If you're saying Mohammed was a man with human values then just like man, he is fallible? So he could have used the Qur'an for his personal gains? You can't have it both ways. Now some apologist scholars say, he could commit minor but not major sins. I mean at what point do you say, this whole thing is a scam.
You either admit that you find it acceptable that it's okay to marry and have sex with a 9 year old, or you go against Islam, that's the sort of position that your pedophile prophets has put you in
@@tellmethis6836 ... Marriage age in the western world just few years ago was 16. If today someone marries a 16 year old you’ll class him a Paedophile. Would you say the same for a person who married a 16 year old ten years ago? Of course not b/c ten years ago these values were slightly different. e.g. Vatican raised marriage age from 12 to 18 only in 2013. If you married a 12 year old in Vatican in 2012, you were ok. If you tried to do it in 2013, you were classed as a paedophile. How ironic?
Marriage age changes according to the time. This is the reason, no divine books - Torah, Bible, Psalms or Quran ever mentioned the marriage age.
Personal gains? The man who became the undisputed leader died having no palace, no money, no riches. Despite having the power he and his family never ate three days in a row. The man who used to mend his own shoes and stitch his own clothes, for him these worldly gains meant nothing. Go and read his life in full instead of wasting your time on google forums and listening to his haters
www.islamfactory.com/books/f/the-sealed-nectar.pdf
Also, marrying the wife of his stepson? First of all Zaid was not his step son, he was his slave who he adopted later and declared him his son. When Quran stipulated a rule of inheritance in surah Nisa and also a rule in 33rd surah Ahzab to call people according to their biological father’s name than this was the declaration that adoption was not allowed anymore (but fostering was). Since then he was called Zaid bin haritha, and not the son of Muhammad (s). When Zaid divorced his wife then Prophet Muhammad (s) married her accordingly
Aisha did NOT exist, she is a fictional character invented by Shia (to
be the enemy of Ali). The Shia made Aisha fight Ali in battle of the
camel . The Sunnis claimed that Aisha is the wife of Muhammad. Both
Shia and Sunnah believed these 2 lies. After that a problem arose. The
age of marriage of Aisha. Because the battle of the camel was at year
35H,while Muhammad died at year 11H. So in order for Aisha to fight Ali
she must be (not so old) , so they made her marry the prophet as a
child.