Removing Points on a 5HP Tiller
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2014
- This video shows how I converted the 5HP Briggs and Stratton motor to electronic ignition. I used this motor in the Poulan Tiller motor swap video.
• Motor Transplant on a ...
and this tiller was in the Teardown of a Knocking Briggs Motor
• Teardown of a Knocking... - Jak na to + styl
Very good DIY video! Concise, to the point, no guessing as to what you're doing, and no music.
Thanks Ken
these old b&s engines are very interesting and im going to buy one after couple of days, its nice to watch how people fixes these old but very good engines. good video
Thanks a lot Nemrit
lol I love how he had the balls to risk shocking the crap out of himself😂😂😂
Them mugs hurt especially them big twin cylinders
Nice job again Bruce.
Great vid like always Bruce!!!
Thank you! Had a rusted on flywheel that would not budge, heat & pb blaster did nothing. I tried the air hammer and it popped right off, saved a bunch of effort.
+Kyler Kraus I works well. Thanks
another beautiful work !!!
+Ilian Stantchev Thanks a lot
thank you so much
I've been looking for a how to video great job
I love those videos! 👍👍
Thank You from Romania,You save my day!
You're welcome!
Little tip, when you use a punch to jar the pullstart ratched , replace one of the small screws back into it so that the threaded hold is not knocked out of shape. Good video, shame it wasn't around when I was on the learning curve as a young lad.
Thank you for the videos, you do very good work. I have a tip if you don't mind. When lubricating the starter ratchet automatic transmission fluid is a really good way to go. It last longer takes higher heat and doesn't attract as much dust. Please keep the videos coming.
max98138 Thanks a lot
max98138
You have a nice channel. You should consider making a few videos. You will find it challenging a humbling too.
Thank you so much, my lawn mower engine is very old-school and I couldn't find any other videos of its same design.
Well thanks a lot.
I remember all the blood, sweat, & tears from
when I used to try to get a set of points to work :)
on the vintage stuff I still stick to points. But those B&S points are hard to set.
@Derrick Smiley I would check the valves. I don't know if your has compression release. That can lower it too.
@Derrick Smiley does it run OK.
@Derrick Smiley Yes i do.
Bruce’s is are hero 🦸♂️ for lawnmowers
Well thanks a lot
Man your smooth. I'm subscribing.
Thanks for subbing.
Good choice
I have a old 5hp briggs kind of similar to the one in the video, I have to change the seal around the output shaft, the flywheel and magnet have rust on them but I'm just glad the engine works at all.
Rust shouldn't effect the flywheel. You can wirebrush it.
Great info Bruce! I've got a 70's Snapper push mower I need to convert, & I wasn't sure where to put the kill wire.
Alan Marshall Usually there is a plastic-metal clip for the wire close to where the throttle cable mounts on the throttle assembly. I have also just added a $3 switch on the housing to ground out the wire.
You don't actually need to remove the points and condenser. (I get that you had to let the water out of yours, so you already had it apart.)
They can normally be left in there as they're nonfunctional anymore. It won't hurt to leave them in.
Bruce , a lot of times with points & condenser it's the condenser that goes bad not the coil. There is also a part from Briggs and Stratton called a magnetron ignition that you put on your old coil and don't even have to mess with the points , just cut the wires and you don't have to buy a new coil or hunt up a spare one , unless of course it is bad . I've put hundreds on to save customers money and they start & run a lot better . Good video ! :-)
Thanks Darell Yes I have used the magnetron modules. They are a great thing. Thanks for the post. Appreciated as a great reminder.
Your the Man Bruce.!
Thanks a lot.
Excellent video thx
Thanks Jon
What did you do about the hole for the contact point actuator rod? I know that there is a block-off pin available in the aftermarket. Did you use one of them?
Good eye. I have not had any issues with removing the rod. I have just removed it on many machines. It fits in loose . Sorry for the delay I have had a bad internet connection for a bit.
Where did you find that electronic ignition coil to replace the old one? I've been looking all over the internet, and all I can find are exact replacements for the original points-based coil.
OK I think I found it on a Canadian Amazon site but the number is what you want.
www.amazon.ca/Stens-460-006-Ignition-Replaces-Stratton/dp/B001OKBE8W
Most folks ask me for the electronic coil #. You must be restoring something.
I find turning your hat around like in "Over the top", will help to take it up a notch.
OK
Where do you get the electronic ignition coils? and how do you know what kind?
I collect them from non running machines. I have a bag of Briggs. Another for Tecumseh etc.
Hey bruce I'm trying to adjust the speed of the self propelled cable to a slower speed i know it has a adjustable screw near outside of the case of the handle you pull to activate the self propell which way do you turn the cable screw to make the speed slower?
I am sorry. This video was made 7 years ago. Your unit is a mower and this is a tiller. Try both directions is all i can say.
Hello Bruce,
what is the thickness of the paper, you are using to make the gap between the coil and the magnet (flywheel)? Or what kind of paper are you using? Thank you.
A regular ol business card. it is 10 thousands of an inch. You can google the distance required if needed.
@@BrucesShop
Great video...could you say a couple words about how that gap adjustment is made? Are there adjusting screws?
Do you have a part number for the upgrade coil? I have a old 5hp Briggs on a go kart frame , but the blower housing is not original. Dont know what part number to use to get seals , gaskets and carb kit .
I use google Just now I googled this
Briggs 5hp horizontal ignition coil and got this. You can do it too.
This is a Canadian site but will go to the country you live.
www.amazon.ca/HEPENG-695711-Lawn-Mower-Electronic-Ignition/dp/B098T9CQ1S/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?gclid=Cj0KCQjwgO2XBhCaARIsANrW2X3jJ1OKAxKOFO4tYXXiflPTW0z4lvpqb8VqEhspKY4hstt87BGIXvIaAoK5EALw_wcB&hvadid=605318956475&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001354&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=17092071804565709207&hvtargid=kwd-316305313138&hydadcr=11242_13533814&keywords=briggs+and+stratton+5hp+coil&qid=1660709233&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1
When u removed the flywheel & placed the prybar under it,what were u levering against to get it off?
Anything solid. You have to have a look. Sorry that is the best i can do.
One thing I would like to know is, whether you have an idea how to reduce the noise level of a mower, especially a tractor. The Briggs and Stratton muffler or exhaust of my husqvarna tc138 tractor is extremely loud (about 100 decibels). Do You know any equipment that could reduce the noise?
Have you tried a new muffler? This is a canadian site but the info os there.
www.partselect.ca/PS9014671-Husqvarna-532188655-Muffler.htm#pscomredirect
Just a suggestion, not trying to be a smartass, but you should use ear plugs, or noise-suppressing earmuffs
What did the coil come off and was there any wires coming off it
At 7:10 you will see the engine it came off.
Great video. I can't work out how you removed the flywheel so easily. What exactly did you do?
The vibration from the air chissel just released it. I got lucky. Thanks
1981 unit.... funny, electronic ignition has been around since the mid 70s for full size engines in automobiles, but small engine manufactures used a points/condensor setup. o_0
The have not had points since 1982 This one was one of the last engines with points 1981. All off them since have electronic coils.
Any idea on coil part number for a old 8hp Briggs horizontal? Looks just like the one on your 5hp. Its has points but like to go to electronic. Its model #190402 and has no spark.
Well this is what i found. (on Google)
Briggs & Stratton 398811 Ignition Coil For 7-16 HP
www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratton-398811-Ignition-Horizontal/dp/B0038U3LZU
Hay Bruce, just subscribed to your channel it’s helped me out a lot, starting to love these little Briggs engines got a little 3ph running (out of 3 old engineslol) but it’s got a horrible misfire and it’s a nightmare to start, am thinking about changing it over to eletric ignition like this, is that wise? Any help is gladly appreciated keep up the good work
Joe Wyatt your flywheel key is most likely sheared so replace it, even if it’s not sheared all the way
Dear Bruce,
your Video is a really good help, because I was looking for a matching coil for long and I had worries about setting the points. Now I can remove the points an get a matching coil.
But I still have a question about the wire. At 8:00 You say:"I hook up that little wire to that spring" But where is the other end of the wire? At my Motor one end is at that spring and the other end is at the capacitor. But you (and later I will do) cut the wire at the capacitor. So I have to connect this wire with the coil? Is there a connection point? Thanks a lot.
Yes that wire goes to the switch that turns off the motor. It just grounds out the signal that allows the spark to generate.
Is it strictly trial and error retrofitting electronic for a points system. Much of my yard equipment is upwards of 40 years and I can expect problems. Is there some kind of exchange reference?
L Malino Gosh I would have to say I don't know. Size of the new coil is the key for me. Take the old one into a place where you can compare sizes.
+Bruce Pender Do you know whether the magnetron delivers a hotter spark? Are there any ancillary benefits other than fewer wires and not having to remove the flywheel? How about reliability vs standard? Thanks for any info.
So to convert to electronic ignition you just remove the points and install a modern coil? Or is there something I’m missing
That is right. I remove the plunger for the points too.
HEy Bruce Interesting! Thanks for the Video. I have a 1968 ish Toro with a briggs 7hp engine. It runs great when cold. But after a few laps around the yard it starts running really bad and will burn your eyes from the fumes. I put the carb in my ultrasonic but it was clean as a whistle anyhow I put it all back together with a carb kit.. A log splitter I have has the same carb so I swapped it just in case but nothing changed. The mower is a super low hour unit. It was maybe used for 4 years and then put in a garage and left. Some folks say it is the coil going bad and to do this conversion. This is how I found the video during a search for the ignition conversion. Any input Bruce?
Yes Can you check the compression? Then here may be sticky valves or a valve adjustment. On these flat heads that means taking off about 5 thousands of an in of the valves. This means removing the length of the valve and grinding a VERY small amount of material from the ends of the valve. Don't panic. Do a valve clearance check first. This video although a Tecumseh may help
czcams.com/video/iogOUbNB-FY/video.html
Plus here is a chart on Briggs valve clearances.
www4.briggsandstratton.com/miscpdfs/RNT/Engine%20Specifications%20Chart_ms3992.pdf
Don't panic it is actually all very simple one step at a time. Before you start check all your gaskets for sealing. Lots of fun and lots to google. Enjoy the process.
What is the part number of the replacement coil you installed?
Google is a big help as this coil came from my collection. I just googled this. Google rocks. I googled this for you.
Ignition Coil for 5hp Briggs & Stratton and got
www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Coil-to-Eliminate-Points-5hp-Briggs-Stratton-397358-395491-298316-/300884372486
Nice video ! What is the gas and oil mixture "primer" that you showed used for?
Sometimes it is 10% 2 stroke oil and gas and sometimes it is just a 2 stroke mix from my gas can. Oops i confessed. Mostly it is 10% 2 stroke oil.
Do you use it to help start engines?
Yes I prime "or pour it in the carb" that helps to get some fuel into the system when it is dry.
Excellent, thank you for the info Bruce.
I have B/S model number 130212 type 0521-01 and would like to convert to Electronic Ignition any Idea of the part number that I would use? How do I tell what year the engine is? Thanks Bill
I just google ignition coil for Briggs 130212 and this can up
www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/universal/440401
Hi Bruce,
You did a nice video for this conversion.
Have you ever convert a Honda gv150 engine (used on Honda HR21 lawnmower) to electronic ignition coil? If so, can we use same coil as for the Honda GCV160 engine? Thanks
Sorry I have not. Most of the Honda's I see are already electronic.
Thanks
At the end you point at a "little wire". What is it? Electric? Part of the new coil? ?
+The Final Front Ear That wire comes off the coil and it goes to the shut off switch. The shut off switch grounds it and stop the spark ---turning off the motor. Thanks for being so thorough.
Can you help me with a question?? Have a similar situation, do I have to hook up the wire behind the flywheel or no??
No Not with an electronic magneto. Points yes.
@@BrucesShop shit really?? I'm thinking it has points but I did not take flywheel off yet... there is no kill switch, just a metal tab that you flip on to spark plug or off off spark plug, that is how it shuts down. I guess I'm going to have to take it all the way apart like you did? Thank you for the video 👍
So I have it apart and the wire from the points came off, assuming that was most of the problem. Now I need parts and to put it together. Can you help with this? I will set up PayPal only if you can walk me through what part to get and how to reassemble it 👍
I've become quite familiar with small engines in the last year or so working on small engines and watching your vids on you tube as well as others !! But I still have some problems trying to find the model ## on the machine. And trying to find the best /cheapest place to order/buy the parts. I would like to see a video on finding model#'S on different machines and talking about what parts could interchange with each other and to make sure u order the correct part. U have the model # for the machine and the engine!! Kinda confusing too me sometimes. Am I a lone wolf here or does other people have the same problem??? Thanks for all your hard work!! But one more note on the model#. Some have the model/type/code. Do u understand what all that means??
Briggs aren't to bad. Their model # is near the date on the blower housing. I struggle with the rest though just like you..
Bruce I have seen this done with the B&S, can this be done as well with Tecumseh?
This is a great video for converting any points small engine to electronic. (not my video)
czcams.com/video/B9XNi-ImEg0/video.html
Thanks for the reply Bruce. I am familiar with those modules and they are great on chainsaws as long as you can get air to them, they get very hot and burn up pretty easy, If you ever have to use one make sure to locate it so the flywheel is pulling air across it. People that have placed them under the flywheel say they burn up fast. Others have had issue if placed to close to a coil saying it interrupts it and causes it to miss fire, I don't know this to be true but it is coming from people that do a lot of modified chainsaws.
I did find out that Tecumseh makes (or made) a 34443 coil that can be used to convert the older coils over to new electronic. An OEM is around $30 US and you can get knock offs for around half of that but after reading the reviews on the knock offs I think if I was going to replace mine I would just get the OEM and be done with it. I can't post a link but if you Amazon OEM tecumseh 34443 you can find it listed.
My engine (H30) is purring like a kitten with it's points still in it and I don't know if I would bother with changing them out for what little I use an edger but wanted to know if I ever ran into something that I would use more.
Thanks for the info
Very helpful - having this exact problem and with a 5hp rototiller as well. thank you. One question I have is - do you think that the points could have been filed and capacitor changed and it would have (or may have) run? Kind of a mute point since the electronic ignition seems so much more efficient, but in a pinch to make something like this run without the convenience of spare parts, it would be good to know.
Probably would. Th capacitor is the key. If the points are filed they are usually OK.
what hp electronic coils will fit for the conversion?
Just google Coil for 5Hp Briggs. You can do it. Here is what i got doing this. remember this is a Canadian Amazon site. do it on amazon.com
www.amazon.ca/Briggs-Stratton-397358-Ignition-Horizontal/dp/B0038U3TKW
you can get a special socket or a wrench to take off recoil clutch real easy . i got mine on ebay real cheap
Yes I have 2 now. This is a really old video.
I would love to have that Murray garden tiller its in good shape
Well the engine survived .
Where can I find a coil like this? Any links?
This may help Canadian site though, so google the numbers more. Mr. google is pretty smart.
www.ebay.ca/itm/like/121992787321?chn=ps&chn=ps
Are the black gloves u r wearing better than the blue ones??
I prefer the blues they are a bit thinner.
I prefer mittens, their warmer
So just changing out the coils with the newer version makes it run?
Yes. The circumference of the flywheel and the bolt pattern have to match.
@@BrucesShop how did it start the first pull
Could I use a coil from a 2008 lawnmower on a tiller if so how would I stop the engine
If the coil fits there should be a connector on the coil to hook up the kill wire from the original machine. It should work. I have even wired in a switch lots to google
Whats is the part number for the coil? So i can find one.
just google coil for 5hp Briggs. Sorry i have more than 50 questions today
Hehe, I learned this stuff in small-engines class at high school. Pretty fun class! I had several other fun classes as well.
How come you didn't show us video of all the steps (taking the starter housing off)?
+MaxxFordham It is hard to show it all in 15 minutes. Sometimes I make 2 or 3 parts
LOL, Bruce Pender, how come you didn't know that even when you posted this video, the CZcams had long-allowed videos that are much, much longer than 15 min.?
Even then, though you thought there was still a 15-minute limit, why didn't you just start one of the screws at normal speed and then high-speed the rest just like you did on some of the other parts (while still figuring out a few other seconds here or there to shave off in order to make room, without leaving out the rest of those other samples)?
+MaxxFordham That takes 5 minutes.
And... your point is..., bser3973?
"You may or may not see this". Well, I saw it... No spark.
Sure enough, plain as the nose of my face. No spark.
what is the part number for the coil you used?
I am sorry I don't have it. This is a 4 year old video. perhaps it is 397358
That is it. I found the book that came with the tiller this engine was on. It had it listed there. Thank you.
Nice video. Need to ask a question. I have a same engine. Need to find a coil. Can't seam to find one. If any one out there have any information please let me know. Many thanks
It id easy to find a new electronic coil. Just Google coil for horizontal Briggs 5HP engine. If you want the points version that may take a bit more looking.
@@BrucesShop thanks I try. Thire are so many different types.
Hi Bruce , I would like your advice please. So I got my Istemation back to get my Mastercraft Tillers Cultivator . Motor is Briggs & Stratton 5HP. He said I need Fuel Tank, Gasket intake, Valve high speed, diaphragm carburator, foam filter , breaker ignition, grip starter rope, shop mat, . Plus Labour total price $500.00 . I find it very expensive I do not want to trow it away but is this easy to fix. I am a very handy in reparing stuff . Thank you for your time
It is not hard if you take 1 issues at a time. Not everything needs replacing. Go to you tube and enter each item. You will be surprised, Of course i don't have a machine with that many issues. It is most lilkey one of them.
@@BrucesShop Hi Bruce , thank you I will try that its a good idea . Thank you very much . I will let you know how it goes .
I'm having trouble putting the flywheel back together the ratchet gear won't go back onto the what do you do can you help me
Make sure the balls go in half way through the assembly then the cover holds the balls It should ratchet then Then screw the ratchet back onto the shaft.
@@BrucesShop that one piece that slides onto the we're at grabs the ball bearings in the pull string pulls I can't put that back on the shaft
@@johnharkins2162 Wow I would take it apart an tr again.
However why is this converting in the description when actually it is repairing. Nicely filmed but I am looking for general advice on replacing pull cord with electric.
Well. If you mean you want to have a battery start. The flywheel has to have gears on it. Then you find a starter that will fit that size of motor and also the housing (rewind) has to have access for the starter to engage the geared flywheel.
@@BrucesShop tx, or else you can't get the high voltage across the spark plug I am gathering, still the flywheel must turn.
Don’t forget the plug you left out
Well it wouldn't go without it.
u took points out but left the push rod that pushes the points open it rides the crank shaft& when the crank pushes it out & vibration makes it come all the way out then u got oil from the motor block being pushed up & out under the points cover. they make a plug that u put in the puss rod hole.
It is still running . This was made in 2014
ou est le demarrage électronique?
dans la bobine
i put a solid state coil in my engine but it didn't work.. i got spark but it wouldnt fire up
The timing may be off then Can you check the flywheel key?
@@BrucesShopthat's what i thought too. i did check the flywheel key to make sure and it was in the right spot. the engine hasnt run in years, so i put some gas into the spark plug hole and all i got was a slow fireball out the exaust. maybe i put too much in but i tried with some quick start into the intake and all that did was cause a fireball and sparks out the intake. didn't hear it fire once. i'm pretty lost at this point.
note: my engine isn't the exact same as yours, in fact, i have no idea what year mine is cause i couldnt find anything from the serial
@@bmxscape I hate to say this but did you check the magnet on the flywheel or remove the cup and look at the flywheel key on the top of the crankshaft. I just sounds like the flywheel key is sheared. Is it at top dead center when the magnet is at the coil? If you are sure about the flywheel KEY not the flywheel you may have a internal timing issue.
@@BrucesShop i did just have the head off and had a look at piston position compared to the flywheel and coil and that seems fine. i did however notice that the intake valve is not seating properly and is possibly bent, which also explains why i have little compression and fire coming out the intake. hopefully its just a matter of putting new valves.. any chance you've had experience with that?
@@bmxscape Yes I ordered one on ebay. It was for a Tecumseh but same idea. Just use google a lot to get your numbers correct.
every time i go to my local junkyard i see a 5 HP Briggs Flathead it makes me sad that people throw out the old engines for stuff like the newer honda and predator engines
Well the flathead Briggs and Tecumseh's are great. I had a Tecumseh for 27 years and sold it in running condition. You just can't let them get low on oil.
I checked the price for a string line trimmer ignition coil and it was half the cost of a new machine. I bought a new trimmer.
Yes trimmer's are only worth doing if they are gummed up. Good work
You could of just left the points in there and just cut the wires. It seems like you made more wore then needed.
Yes but They are gone right. Work is OK
Absolutely, didn't have ti remove fly wheel, just cut the wires
I have a shop also and I go the extra mile to do it right and oil the ball bearings in the starter clutch. Wow that was a lot of moisture in there Bruce ~!~!
Yes it must have been stored outside at one point EH!!!!
@@Budro4764 yep, make sure that starter clutch rolls freely
Why did you bother to remove the points and condenser? You could have left them in place couldn't you? Just cut the wires and leave them.
You are right but it they aren't used I like to get them out of there. I agree with you but I am kid if OD sometimes. LOL
If you have an engine acting like this and it's literally the same one os it the points that need replacing or os it the coil
Coil in my vote :-)
You can just leave the points in there
True. i tend to remove them if it isn't a struggle.
Who tought you how to remove the pawl cage like that? Never put anything to lock up the crankshaft on the flywheel fins. A small block and a hammer will spin it off if you don't have the special tool to remove it. Sorry but I had to say something I couldn't take it anymore at 3:05 in your video. Just saying
Thanks i get it. Now I have all the actuall Briggs removal tools. This was filmed n 2014 6 years ago. I am there now.
@@BrucesShop I'm glad to hear that, it was some time ago but I love what I do with passion that most people take for granted. I applaud your enthusiastic approach I think people like you and I see the world a little different. Peace
You cold bore me with the model # Type # and code #. please do.
beingsneaky gosh the tiller is now at my nieces house sorry
Just went to remove ming and they were already gone lol
Cool
all you had to do was cut the wires, didnt have to removw the flywheel
You are correct. i was just removing the unused parts.
why do you take out the points out I just take the kill wire off (cut it) put on the newer coil and put it back together
Just removing stuff not required , that s all
thank you so much I've been looking for a how to video great job
Are these coils considered DRY coils for purposes of using an adjustable spark tester?
Thanks Bruce!
I don't think so They are just coils for this motor. If you are think of the electrical term for a soaked coil no.
thank you so much I've been looking for a how to video great job
thank you so much I've been looking for a how to video great jobo
thank you so much
I've been looking for a how to video great job
Thanks
thank you so much
I've been looking for a how to video great job
+Chevy Man Great Chevy!!!!