Chasing Micrometres with the best Ball Screws
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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Banggood Ball Screw: www.banggood.com/custlink/mDv...
TinyFPGA BX: bit.ly/tiny-fpga-box
Tests with this servo: www.welectron.com/JMC-iHSV57-...
Patreon: / marcoreps - Věda a technologie
You should always use a granite surface plate desk, even in the kitchen! I sleep on a granite surface plate to make sure I get the most precise dreams ever, to within 3 microns.
< Insert Rick & Morty True Level Scene here >
It also straightens out the back
@@DeDeNoM ...Or make a "C" with your column, if you sleep over your side. Cheers !
@@DeDeNoM Raises hell with the "roids" tho!
@@reps EVERYTHING IS CROOKED! REALITY IS POISON! *LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER*!
I've seen that scene at least 5 times this week because it keeps popping up in CZcams for me.
Hey Marco, the Steinmeyer ball screws are induction hardened as well (only the threads up to a few mm depth into the material). They also start as rolled part but then they get precision ground to fit to the pitch within tolerance (as low as a few µm). Of course the abrasive grinding will heat up the thread but they balance the cutting depth to control the soft-annealing. So no worries - they will hold up fine.
I just love how you worked that ad right in there. Smooth as butter i didn’t see it coming and then BAMM like a freight train.
Thank you so much. You saved me a lot of time. Going to replace my end bearings and get that Tiny FPGA kit now! Excellent.
Finally a new video! I'm so happy to see your CNC machine coming together😍 can't wait to see those beauty in action
That's going to be one hell of a PCB etcher
the worlds most expensive dickbutt plotter
Can’t wait to see the 1:100000 scale city that he etches.
When you go below 1um accuracy you start getting weird effects like the heat from your body causing thermal expansion.
I want to see someone use laser interferometry to measure the position to kick off the next generation of hyper accurate making.
@@operator8014 Your in luck I happen to be in charge of the cnc department of Infinity Drain. We have brand new AMS Loader from Amada paired to our 4kw Laser. The Loader uses just that to tell where the pallet traverser is and to also measure sheet material thickness.
@@operator8014 already done. We use those at my work. Picometer accuracy. It's a pain though, as in Australia this accuracy encoder systems requires defence approval. We had one system fail, and I had to arrange approval from ministry of defence to be able to send it back to the manufacturer for repair.
@@brianjensen5200 Does everything run in a temperature controlled oil bath? I saw a video from Mitutoyo and that's how they keep their master leadscrew at a fixed temperature when screw cutting.
@@evildrome no our motion stages are in free air. We keep the technical hall under 1K temperature deviation and encoder feedback loop controls the rest
Marco we see so much stuff in your videos we cant find nowhere else..TY.
And cant afford haha!
YESSS! I freaking LOVE your videos!!!
Finally, a new video!! I was getting really tired of watching reruns and can't seem to get my fix anywhere else! I just got my MK3 Extended last week and already started my collection of cheap Chinese knock-offs….I'm in too deep already and obsession/fascination with Micro Reps isn't going away..one video every couple months just won't suffice!
bearing blocks on linear rails must have a certain amount of preload to give you accuracy and rigidity under load.
that's why a new linear blocks don't slide freely and have some amount of friction.
(and that used rails from industrial machines slides freely just because they are WORN OUT and lost their preload. that's why they was removed and replaced with new ones)
Sounds all correct! The banggood ones however have an uneven friction and seem to get caught on some high spots. And since hobby stuff is the only area where you would consider used rails anyway I think even the most worn-out ones will be easily good enough? Maybe I can find a way to actually measure my worn-out Rexroths ...
@@reps I've recently bought some used miniature Bosch rexroth linear guides (size 15, 4 bearings, 2x330mm rails) from ebay, alongside 500 steel bearing balls. Had to replace the old balls and even replaced the new ones multiple times until I found a "good batch" of those cheap balls that were running smoothly with slight preload. All in all this costs me 120€ compared to new ones from Bosch for over 500€
@@mariusb6035 How do these Bosch rails compare to Hiwin rails? Only ever heard of Hiwin rails being used in high end CNC applications.
@@michaelkelly3158 the original Bosch rails are very similar to hiwin rails. You'd have to compare lifetime, friction or other technical properties in a specific use case. Just saying "these are better" is impossible. As long as you get new brand name rails (hiwin, Bosch, SKF, Schneeberger,...) you should be good to go for any hobby project.
I have some cheap Chinese linear rails in a 20mm size. They run kind of rough but don't seem like it's specific high spots. Do you think taking them apart and cleaning would help smooth out the motion? I kind of suspect it's small particles in side the carriages are causing it to stick
6:04
When a ballscrew shaft is ground, the metal can already be very hard prior to grinding and the resulting screw can be far superior than a ballscrew that gets some hardening in its roll forming process.
Thank you for the unfiltered sharing of information. It is quite refreshing.
More, please sir! One of my favorite channels.
I think it's important to note that the final hardening comes just before grinding (which happens after rolling in the case of rolled ball screws) and so the effect of surface hardening is minimal compared to the higher precision and therefore tolerances of purely ground ball screws.
Excellent breakdown and explanation with valuable tips and tricks for the aspiring CNC machine builder. Thank you. Subscribed.
Oh finally a new video. 😀
Just found this channel... Been binge watching since : )
Nice to hear from you again
Thanks for sharing👍😀
I'm really glad I'm subscribed to this channel. I feel like the humor here is within the same vein as This Old Tony.
I know it's been a while but at my job we have what is essentially a large pair of calipers to calibrate cinema cameras. In order to discover and correct for long distance accuracy we use the distance traveled and revolutions of the motor. It uses a belt and pulley along with a very nice absolute encoder. We note the error (difference) of where it ended up vs the target and use the encoder resolution as well as the revolutions of the pulley. So if the machine was 0.015" off we would use that distance multiplied by the ticks/mm of the encoder (a constant), divided by the number of revolutions made during the move. This would give us a long range error correction value that the machine can compensate with. Essentially the number of encoder ticks it should increase or decrease by with every revolution of the pulley. I believe a similar calibration technique could be used with a ball screw mechanism.
Always interesting ! In my experience, too much precision is useless, because, at the end, the total deflexion of the structure, leadscrews, the motor head, the tool, etc. is very significant, but, of course, "too much precision" is better than "meh!". I'm saving money for the parts of my next CNC router. Thanks for sharing !
Your videos are awesome, I can't believe I hadn't discovered these sooner, bravo.
I could listen to you say "steinmeyer ballscrews" over and over on repeat endlessly. I wish I had your voice, fantastic vid
That's how we Germans say it ... 😀
Linear rails have different amount of preload and various combinations of seals that will affect how easy they slide.
Nice to see some SMC stuff in the video. I have never used anything from them other than pneumatics but i got a tour around one factorie and they do make very high quality stuff....
The lubrication sounds are very inspiring. Fruits & vegetables are good for you, Marco!
Your videos are usually pretty funny, but that joke at the end about rails getting replaced preemptively in industrial settings was hilarious.
Bigger companies do this all the time. Regular maintenance is important when your Nestle and bottling 10's of thousands of water bottles a day.
@@adisharr
I am not sure if you have ever replaced a ball screw, but it doesn't sound like it.
Can you please explain the inside baseball joke to the non players?
@@SystemsPlanet Most industrial machines (outside Germany at least) get run to death, rarely get the love or greasing they should.
Depends a lot on the application, but most companies will replace ball screws when it starts causing problems. If it's in a machine that NEEDS to run without a hitch, consumables will generally get replaced or at least checked for wear on a predetermined schedule. I used to work for a company that would always have a maintenance crew scheduled for holidays so they could do that sort of thing without creating excessive downtime.
thank you for the lesson in angular contact bearings
To measure long distances you could attach levers to the encoder. It's the same technique that people used back in the day to convert large movements into small ones for precise machining. You'd be trading micrometer precision for mm or cm precision though.
A new video from Mr Reps makes my day.
Good humour and technical knowledge. Subbed.
That tiny FPGA thing... I didn't knew such a thing existed! That's the size of an Arduino nano!
As usual, a hilariously instructive video, thank you MUCH!
Here in Vietnam we can get those linear rail and ball screw second hand for dirt cheap. They are often disassembled from old machines. Just got a pair of unused IKO LWA15 rails and NSK 1602 ball screw for like $40. $200 can get you a nice 400w servo with driver from Japanese brand like Yakaswa.
Had no idea FPGAs could be so adorable. I need to dust off some micro-controller unworthy projects and exchange some financial details with Elektor.
Elektor: "only 0 left"
Me: "oh great... fuck my life."
My wallet: *quiet sigh of relief*
I can confirm that in 2025, FPGAs will go beying Kittens in the minds of serial-video-watchers.
Came for the precision, subscribed for the humour! Nice and dry, just how I like it.
Holy Bleep. Awesome video!!! Awesome technical detail and heavy with the lols. Nightmare fuel lol.
I used to work with these in laser trimmers and C02 lasers. The C02 had a 200 pound polished slab of granite that everything was mounted on
Funny , ohh the humor , most excellent content. This is exactly the info I was looking for as I'm currently trying to repair a TL-1 Lathe : )
I was just pooping and was searching for some video to watch on the meantime.. And then I saw that you uploaded a new video! That was the best poop I had this year, thank you!
Good to know!
Er . . . too much to know.
Made with carbon metal not a trace of cabon wood LMAO
One way I could think of measuring long distance movement, would be measuring rotation shaft movement vs fixed point via laser distance sensor.
Precision engineering with German precision dry humour. God I love this guy!
I love the shot at 3:37 where you can see a die with all the traces allong it.
You are such a knowledgeable and funny guy.
A simple laser interferometer can be used to measure accuracy over long distances. All you have to do is to program maybe an arduino to count how many times the interference pattern cycles. The accuracy may not be great because you can't really properly calibrate it but it should be super precise, as long as you don't loose count.
How do you measure what type of ball screws I have already on my mill! When I measure I have 5 turns per inch but how do you measure pitch? I don’t see anything stamped in the nut holder thingy
The qualifying test for becoming a marine artificer in the royal navy in the 1970s was to build a miniature metal lathe.
By hand from scratch, to a maximum accuracy of so many thou.
Apparently creating those jack screws and whatever they made to run along it is tricky.
best video ever. inspired me to study engineering and will build a machine.
What's the amount of the slow drift? Steel has a coefficient of linear expansion of ~10-12 microns/meter/degrees c, so temperature expansion vs the desk should certainly shown up on your micron scale.
I am also German but have been living in the US for over 40yrs. I am looking to build a reasonably priced desktop machine to route/mill parts for my hobby. Why is it that I am also obsessed with precision and worry about thermal expansion of materials? I guess it’s in my genes? 🤪
Hi.
I need to know the name of i strument you used of mesure ment in micron.
since you live in germany, you can get mineral castings for the cnc machine done from EPUCRETE or now called RAMPF.
German precision oozing out of this video. I had a German accent for an hour after watching this. Love this channel! Subscribed!
Precision wood block table
Very good video! It made me feel dumb, but motivated me to learn this stuff!
Nice video! And thank you for the nice tips!
But are you sure you're going to enjoy those microns with the rigidity of steel frames? Have you considered filling granite on the voids?
Beautiful, thanks for sharing.
3:10 when your hardware is so precise that your nut has bolts inside it
For testing longer range you could Mount an standing plate and Drive the carige against it..
Very good. I like your sense of humor too.
Technical, and pretty funny. I love your style and hard German accent.
Yep, turning the nut is tricky. It takes a while turning it back and forth to be ‘happy’ again. For a while it was trying to force out the plastic seal. At one end the plastic seal is held in by two tiny grub screws.
Pretty amazing stuff, man! 😮
OMG this channel is awesome!! Subbed!
What precision class are your ball screws as in c5 c3 or even c0
Love your commentary!
I have never learned so much while laughing so hard.
Precision comedy dude. 🧐😂
That's some quality hardware! I'm only worried a bit about this Z axis, it looks going to be 2-3 times longer than spacing between rails, this will amplify load on the rails, and then amplify deflection at the tip of an end mill even more. I might be overthinking it but i'd be tempted to make something like Okuma double column machining center.
Valid point!
Another great vid. Subscribed!
super valuable information, thank you
Looking for my first cnc machine. What will you suggest to look for when selecting a complete out of the kit cnc machine? BTW, love your video very informative.
Marco Reps, Where do you find secondhand linear rails and carriages?
Can you please tell me from where i can purchase these second hand rails? Thank you
Regarding the linear railways. Did you check the preload of the blocks?. Usually some friction is a sign of a good system that could be able to transfer vibrations to the machine block.
Hahahahahhaah, "avoid things like this" I'm hecking crying 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Could a ball screw be used for a mini loader to a lawn tractor to move bucket up and down.
Whoa that SMC card motor is just so cool!
Those German ball screws are most likely hardened before grinding. And presumably they are tuned to a spot on concentricity and then get ground instead of work hardened since the torsional energy exerted into the blank is low with grinding and that way you eliminate a variable that could cause distortion. Or maybe it's space dust, I'm just shooting from the hip tbh
hi
what is your projects with to all materials?
FYI: You should look into Klipper if you are interested in interfacing a regular threaded OS with a realtime OS. Klipper is a 3d printer software that does all the heavy lifting on a computer (usually a Pi) and then uses one or more microcontrollers to schedule and execute commands.
Yeah, cool project. I think Cetus is also based on that principle
@@reps I honestly think it's the way forward for 3d printing as opposed to using STM32 based boards with webUI addons like the Duet. Plus it can be infinitely scalable. Want to have two Y-axis gauntries with two X-axis carriages with two independent extruders each? Slap a few cheap reprap boards together and hook them up to a Pi and install Klipper on everything.
I'm working with high precision CNC mills and we use 30mm diameter ballscrews with 16mm pitch. But the bearing blocks are something different. They cost around 1500€/piece and weight around 6-8kg I think. But we use much more beefier motors. 2.2kW per ballscrew.
That crackling noise in that nut hurted very badly.
Just gonna change the ballscrews at a customers machine tomorrow
Very nice video! Where do you find all of those second hand linear rails etc.?
Beautiful video mate:)
can i use these screws for my cedar deck planks or will they rust?
Can you give some guidance on how you came to this high precision control system?
Is it true that friction in linear rails isn't neccisarily bad? i was told the big heavy rexroth with very tight tolerances are hard to push, but it's not a bad thing bc of precision.
Informative and entertaining. Many thanks
so uhh what is all of this stuff for? I still haven't figured it out
Genuine Hiwin rails take force to move because the fit is tight - I have some and they move just like those.
Hello, it's my first comment here.. First of all love your channel...So I am writing aboute the "el chepo chinese linear rails" i've bought some more then a year ago.. Frustrated over the laggy performance, etc... Solution disassemble the carriage submerge in alcohol (to clean some wierd oils inside) reassemble, greas up... It worked for me... Still going strong after a year or so of modernet to heavy use..
I understand NOTHING but I can't stop watching.
For the love of god I hope you've picked up Fusion by now :)
Cool videos, keep it up !
Excellent video about a thing that gets ignored quite often.
There is a recent video how to clean and "upgrade" cheap linear bearing, like you are using at 7:45 the difference is outstanding
thank you youtube rabbit hole...found this amazing channel
Can someone tell me how rolling ring drives compare to ball screw drives? Is the extra effort in using a Arduino or other controller, servos, programming them and using a ball screw drive worth it over a rolling ring drive? I am only winding coils for transformers and dont see the need for CNC. I have never built a coil winder before but it feels like a RRD would save time money and headaches.
Where to look for "new old stock" linear rails???
Hallo Marco, Ich habe mir auch die BK20 gekauft auf aliexpress, und sehe da sind ganz normale lager verbaut. Denkst du das die irgendwie ok isnd für den konstanten axialen druck auf zwei seiten? Ich brauche es fuur meine Fräsmaschine (machinable area = 2440 x 1220). Mein setup hat zwei 2525 ball screw spindles für die lange Y achsee, und eine 1616 für die X Achse. Denkst du es würde sich lohnen gleich jetzt vor der montage um zu rüsten, oder erst mal schauen was die billigteile hergeben? Danke für einen Tip!
Very informative. Thanks.
Is that thing at 1:36 the "Big Wooden CNC" from one of your older Videos?
i have an interesting situation that i need electronic genius solutions. my milling machine has xyz....with 2 movements on z, column and quill. the DRO has one rs232 input for each axis. so......now i need a way to read both the z axis scales on one port. ideal thy will ad and subtract from each other. is this at all possibly? as thy read 2 channels high and low thy should . can this be done ? i also dont mined if i lose 0.005mm on switch over between the two. that kind of accuracy is way beyond my pay-grade. is it possible ore am i blowing smoke?