First F-150 with an Independent Rear, Trailing Arm Suspension | Hoist Review
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- čas přidán 4. 10. 2022
- Jordan and Kevin put the Lightning up on the hoist to check out the undercarriage of the truck!
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Outro:
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#Ford #Lightning #F150 - Zábava
Thanks Jordan and Kevin for your interesting undercarrage review. Looking forward to your next videos as as the disassembly progresses.
More to come! Thank you for watching!
When I was younger and was working under my 1971 VW bus, I'd sometimes just lay there and enjoy the beauty of the engineering of how things fit together. this is the modern version of this for me. I used to even drift off to sleep under that vehicle when I was working on it.
Nerds are Us!
The underside of the Lightning makes total sense from a pickup truck perspective and it’s heritage and future use. It still looks like a truck and is built like a truck, and plugs right into the jobber up fitter market. That makes it supper cost effective for the buyers of this truck who are going to use it in the trades world. You know, guys who build and work on things big things. Heavy things. And they are concerned about getting the job done. The guys who shop Truck Trader, instead of Bring A Trailer.
I realize its not the primary focus, but this thing is a Powerwall on wheels, so adding all the other innovations on top of that... Pretty amazing.
Excellent, excellent analysis - thank you Jordan and Kevin.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well done. Eager for the whole series of the Lightning. Following this vehicle closely.
The chassis and suspension are fascinating to me. I love those gorilla sized lower control arms😁
Thanks for the detailed look, saw it before on the lift, but more detail is awesome
No problem 👍
nice walk around! thanks 4 the show! it's so helpful 2 see the mechanical details! so important! a true truck force!!
Another great video. Really excited for the teardown on this. I must say at first blush I see a lot of little nook and crannies, fasteners, etc with the various skid plates. That seems like a ton of really rust prone steel. Hopefully future iterations at least simplify the underbody protection
Thanks Jordan and Kevin. Good technical qnd business context to what you saw about the design, accessible explanations etc. Enjoyed it!
Great job guys I’m excited to see this tear down !
Love the Lightening Series, Thanks Guys! Got this one in my bucket List.
Good stuff. thanks guys! I'm looking forward to putting a Lighting to use in film production as soon as they can ship it. Great to see all the usual F-150 utility and mounting points intact
Great, detailed analysis -- thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Looks good guys .I was surprised that the electrical connectors up front had no shield from tire splash behind the wheel I`m imagining that area filling up with debris and salt in winter months .
Great video! I can't wait to get my lighting in November!
We have 8 Pros with two more coming next month. Youre gonna love it!
Very nice video by Jordan and Kevin. I much prefer these rant free technical tours
Interesting and informative, thanks for sharing your expertise.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent description!
Thanks!
That independent rear suspension is incredible.
Those control arms look gaudy and brawny.
Everything up to 3Ton ULW should have it was universal it would cheaper manufacture with less variants!
The drive motor inverters are integrated on the top side. You probably just couldn't see them.
I'm not sure what the other seperate module above the rear motor is, but its something different like maybe the 110/220V AC inverter for the power outlets.
Inverter for the power plugs but also maybe for the vehicle to home functionality?
Thank's Guy's GREAT review. Those rear A arms with the open cell structure on the bottom look like they would fracture off the first time they met a large rock or corner of a curb. That IS something that will be a problem off road. CHEERS AND KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK Steve h.
Every nice and informative video. Thank you.
Our pleasure!
Thanks guys
Thanks for watching, Duncan!
Great job guys! I have to give Ford props for creating the F150 Lighting and bringing it to market so quickly it is a great truck that happens to be an EV also.
Not to beat the truck up, but why was the CV rusty? (Did they mention that?) I am sure it isn't a problem, and probably part of the choice of materials for making it, but it would be interesting to know why it happens like that and if it is planned.
Yeah, that thing has more rust and aluminum corrosion than my 2019 F-150. With all the steel on the bottom its not going to be very friendly to areas that salt their roads. All the extra welds are good points for rust to start.
A CV joint is a big hunk of steel machined and lubricated on the inside, covered in a rubber boot to keep moisture out of the working parts, and totally exposed to the elements on the outside. It's such a big hunk of steel, there is no need to prevent corrosion on the outside. The same applies to tie rod ends and many other suspension components.
@@user-vp1sc7tt4m Awesome, J! That makes sense. Thanks for replying!
I think one of the benefits of the trailing arm rear suspension is that that camber doesn't change as ride height changes. In other words, loading a 1000lbs in the bed will reduce the ride height and without an air ride system to pump it back up to level, you'll be running at that lower position. This system keeps those rear tires flat on the road when operating under load just like a solid rear axle found on ICE F-150s would do and doesn't require the cost of an air suspension to meet that requirement. There are other suspension designs that can be created to achieve this same effect as well, but a trailing arm seems to be a robust solution.
There are many other benefits to the air suspension though.
@@boostav Nope!!! Air suspensions are actually expensive and when they fail you are screwed
Semi-trailing arms do not prevent camber and toe changes under suspension loading. BMW moved away from semi-trailing arms on the second gen 3 series in the late 80's because of this exact issue. Multi-link rear suspensions are much better suited for controlling unwanted wheel motions.
@@carholic-sz3qv 😂 he didn’t say there are only other benefits.. everything has drawbacks.. but to pretend air suspensions don’t have a bunch of benefits, is just ignorance or stupidity
@@airheart1 i never said that air suspensions doesn’t have any pros lol….. it’s just additional hardware on EVs that actually increases weight and reduces range….. there are also hydraulic/hydropneumatic suspensions which are way better than the air ones
The general design of the rear suspension - cast aluminum semi-trailing arms - is the same as the E-Transit. Are they the same components, or just similar? They will have different hub faces (due to different wheel interface, such as bolt circle diameter) and perhaps different hub drive splines (due to different drive units and axle shafts), but otherwise they could be the same.
Can’t wait for the next generation to see what its like. 👍🏼
F250 Lightning
Amazing mindblowing gamechanging revolutionary!
Thank you!
You bet!
Body on frame trucks can take specialized boxes with tool boxes or even used for bucket trucks. Like that.
Keep an eye on things that would disallow the use of other than the factory bed.
While upfitter bodies are very common on heavier trucks (SuperDuty in Ford's lineup), they are rarely used on Class 1 ("half-ton") models such as the F-150.
@@brianb-p6586 You are correct.
: ). , Great Work as usual, THANKS !
Am I the only one that doesn't miss Sandy? His staff is top notch, definitely surrounding himself with great talent!
Great breakdown
I love your coloured lift!! Blue and yellow!!
I think they actually have an integrated inverter, just not with motors. Instead of having four inverters - frunk power sockets, front motor, rear powerpro sockets & rear motor; they integrated the front inverters into one, rear inverters into one. If they had integrated the inverters into the motor, they'd have to run coolants etc. through the entire unit, even when the truck is stationary and only power sockets are being used or truck is used to power homes. I don't know whether that's the case, I'm assuming based on thr truck's capabilities.
That full trailing arm is pretty unique in today’s market. They could have borrowed from the Lincoln irs but must have had good reason to go simple and strong. Trailing arm must offer a feel more similar to a solid axle, and that may have been a consideration.
The three biggest reasons are cost, cost, and cost. Then there's cost. 😁 But also space for packaging, and simplicity for ruggedness. Of course double A-arms are rugged enough for a HMMWV (Humvee)...
Also there's nothing specifically Lincoln about IRS at Ford; the Lincoln Navigator is just a fancy Ford Expedition, with the same IRS. That's even the same platform as the F-150, so it would have been an obvious choice.
Fantastic...once again MUNRO team does it!
Excited to see F150 lightning here!
Wow, so many monuments designed to help with the impact script 🤣🤣🤣 impressive also is the substantially large sorb tusk. No mention the original suspension architecture...thanks for wiggling the latge monument in the front. I like that it has such a huge pack ! I wonder what we gonna see after the mid cycle action.
I support this sentiment.
Lots of stamped and hydro formed steel crossmembers and brackets under and some supporting that battery pack. Strikes me that all these could be very prone to rusting out unless the steel used is of superior quality along with much better paint than is normal for truck frames.
Thank you
You're welcome
great camera work Eric
Thanks
Wonderful explanations as usual. What I find depressing is seeing rust already on a brand new vehicle. I know at this point it is superficial but I live in the NE where they put salt and brine on the roads and it causes horrifying corrosion. Are there any issues with oil undercoating of Bev's?
What are the two black fairly long and wide plastic buckets for at each side edge under the cab?They don't seem to have anything in them, or be protecting anything. They also don't seem like they're for aero since they're not full length.
You can really see how a deep knowledge base benefits the execution of the Lightning. There is almost no, “ooh!, why it is that way?”
Both drive units are different from those used in the Mach E (and E-Transit) - can this be confirmed, or do we have to wait for the drive unit tear-downs?
Heavy duty skid-plates that you can balance the truck on with a rock point while off-road are VERY important for an EV truck / SUV. I'm glad they chose steel over some weaker material.
The active air dam on the front is cool ,and unusual, would be interesting to know how much extra range it would add.
Great review munro..thanks.
Ford did a great job on there first ev f150. I would like to see a full ev platform on there future ev truck . I know why they did it that way make sense. If they go with a large cab in the future I hope they have a midgate in the future.
I can't wait to see what comes next.
Where Ford's F-150 Lightning hit the ground running was by using a pre-existing proven platform that is already industry standard for utility fitments. Whether it be storage fuel transfer tanks for farmers and construction folks, toolboxes, ladder racks, caps, utility bodies and those with cranes, towing bodies, you name it, install it and go. As for snow plows it is yet to be seen how effective this BEV setup will be but I'm sure someone will do it. In future versions it would be wise for Ford to move the frame rails further outward so that it can handle much larger battery packs for maybe even 500+ mile range. Regardless of how they redesign the underside, they need to maintain form and function on the top side as it is. As with my current 2012 F-150 Supercrew, I love the space and I love the layout and it's still the same cab on today's models. I hope this cab design continues for another 50-years from now because simply - it works.
Another great video. I would love to see the Cybertruck teardown comparison. Thank you.
Tesla is going to have to make one first.
Thats at least a year from now
when you do your tear down, I really want to understand what the max tow package gives you- I hear double the cooling in one video, but what does that actually mean… are they just hooking up another cooling hose to the battery? I don’t want extra towing I just want better battery cooling.
Jordan cracks me up... he was not impressed with that marketing pitch to Ford by Kevin at the outro. lol.
I heard in one commentary that Ford was not putting on the retractable sideboards on the vehicles because they could not get them. The retractable sideboards would provide some of the cover for the void on the side of the frame to the body in terms of air flow near the battery pack, would they not? Was that commentary correct in the features not being available but promised to the end customer?
Pretty sure that airflow is irrelevant.
Munro live are one of the few US vid's that I watch that use metric 🙂
All proper engineering should...
Occasionally, they use feet, inches and pounds as well, especially when Sandy Munro himself or Cory explain things with more appeal to average US Americans. Jordan and Kevin are more like engineers with a metric background, appealing to engineering audience.
Loved that on a Thursday evening. I would buy that truck going on the influence of the team. It does look like a great truck, and the options that can carry over, wow. Nobody is doing that, its all chuck away! F150 is retro with 400 volts up it's ass.
I am allowed to say that? Ha
Why isolate the battery in the first place? Seems interesting that they went that direction when another company integrated it into the structure. ? I think of isolating things that cause vibration but a battery does not vibrate. Maybe to reduce wear or the effects of impacts on the battery?
Side impact in a pickup truck bed is only to protect the battery so they could make room for more battery.
There seems to be a preference by the Munro Live engineers on manufacturing simplicity at the expense of repairability. For instance; the integration of high power electrical modules like the inverters with the motor and gear train assembly. To save a coolant connections and mounting hardware would change what would be a one hour job in to an all day job. Considering the MTBF of high power electrical modules is likely much shorter than the mechanical assembly it would make sense from a repair and maintenance stand point to keep them separate. If these assemblies are mounted to the motor and gear train unit it should be replaceable without further disassembly or loss of fluids. Some designs require splitting the cases of the drive unit and dumping the coolant and or lubrication fluids. Not something most technicians or vehicle owners that have to pay for the task are likely to look forward to.
I agree. Often times I’m sitting here in amazement that they want something to be less serviceable and easier for mass production and cost savings. I understand they are a consulting firm to advise manufacturers but as an end user some of their ideas are frustrating. One glaring example is some of the Rivian tear down. In a nutshell they concluded it was built a little too well and needs to be simplified.
Angled radiator and fan kinda like Humvee
Well, Jordan mentioned it right when I was typing this 😅
Great insight on the "tax" for being a carryover platform. Why is the front drive wrapped with NVH treatment, yet the rear is not?
I'm not an engineer, but I'd guess it may be because passengers would be much less affected by NVH from a motor under the bed (a separate structure from the cab).
We have several lightnings. Theres no discernible vibration in the rear
@@mattbrew11 I'm thinking about noise, not vibrations. Noise cancelling is difficult on an EV w/o the engine to cancel them.
@@mayflowerconsulting5540 doesn’t seem to be needed. Theres a little sound from the motors but incredibly smooth for any vehicle especially a truck
Kevin didn't know it was leg day!
What do you think the effect of salt will be on these in the rust belt
Ford claims they tested their drive units in their standard 20,000 salt wash so id say quite well
Should all that steel under-plating be a concern for holding salt, and moisture/future rust, especially in states that treat the roads? I would think that aluminum plating, or coating would have been used to avoid that.
Yeah all that steel on the bottom is just going to be a rusty mess for people who do not take care of their trucks.
@@arpeggi2999 It’s going to be difficult/impossible to clean the way it’s built.
Hey guys, having an interesting issue with my new Lightning. I’ve got 7,000km on it and when I slightly accelerate at about 80km, on a slight incline, it starts to display what feels like a wheel unbalanced. Only lasts until I give more power but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this?
I like the replaceable Steel under treatment.. simple and easy to fix. I also like the independent inverters.. having then separate helps with serviceability. Toyota has had inverters fail on there Hybrids.. simple fix.. a few bolts and connectors, and its out and replaced. Tesla has them integrated and VIN coded as well.. Not great for DIY repair or cost of repair.
All comes down to how reliable you make the part. If an integrated system becomes 10x more reliable then a repair cost of 2x might make sense.
"Integrated" inverters still remove with only a couple of bolts and the same three electrical terminals, so they're not a serviceability problem.
Others have said that each motor has an integrated inverter.
@@brianb-p6586
Have to wait and see you when they do the tear down. I've seen Tesla's design and it certainly is not easy to get apart.
I've also seen the Chevy bolt torn down it has a separate inverter mounted on top. Four separate bolts couple of electrical connectors and it's out. Same is true with my Prius. There's some cooling hoses some electrical connectors. And I can get a used one from a salvage yard for $100. The one in my Prius failed at 380,000 Miles.
Seems Ford did is a great job for a quick to market product that they could put their badge on.
I'm sure that when they achieve the production capacity of MANY batteries, they'll want to make advances with integration, and these will then more easily pay for themselves. No real need to take all those cost for the first truck they deliver.
Every dollar and kg they manage to optimize going forward of course it worth it.
woo woo woo !!!
From the underside the components seem to be very exposed. Think of farming communities, dusty, wet and snowy roads. Then add some road salt. How do you clean these components for servicing?
As compared to others, it seemed as if you were using gloves for Ford. However, I would still own one of these in a heartbeat. Good vid as usual.
My 88 Vanagon (T3) has Trailing arm independent suspension, Ford is catching up!
As with almost all pickup truck chassis, the chassis has a finite life designed in. Far too many holes in the outer walls of the box sections in the vicinity of the wheels and tires. These could easily be fitted with grommets or not stamped out at the manufacturing stage. As it is, they are mainly there to allow dirty and corrosive moisture into the cavity so that rust can propagate from the inside out to meet the rust forming and flaking from the outside inwards. This is almost always the age-limiting factor that consigns trucks to be recycled mostly way before the mechanical parts are worn out… accident damage excepted of course. Manufacturers just do not want their vehicles to last more than fifteen years, or ideally for them, ten. They want to sell more new ones to replace older ones, it stands to reason. However, the customer wants quality, reliability, durability and longevity.
I agree with you. As I was watching, I kept cringing thinking of all of the new/additional areas for snow and salty slush to accumulate. Being a western New Yorker, every nook and crevice to me is a future rust flake. But, what the hell, all I want to know is, "can I mount and put a plow on this sucker?"...Cheers
We have been using ford trucks for a long time and we now have 8 lightnings. We have approximately 65 F150s total right now and they don’t have any obvious issues with corrosion. Some of them are in chicago and Pennsylvania where salt is abundant
From a Google search the lightening weighs 1500-2000 lbs more a ice f150. Can u summarize what that will mean for wear and tear e.g., suspension, tires etc? Thanks
"You're not a real car company if you don't build your own motors."
I was excited to see Ford built motors. This is the path forward to more affordable EVs. Once OEMs are building more components in volume it allows for optimization. As mentioned in the video, having an inventory of components that are validated and optimized decreases turn-around time on new products and greatly reduces cost. Some deride the "parts bin", but designing every vehicle from a blank sheet is uneconomical.
We will see some of these new components in future Ford models. That is why I tend to support Ford's choice to use a separate inverter unit in the rear. Various inverters can be used with any given motor to provide various performance characteristics, space claim, and allow for a range of options within the inverter housing. It allows a single motor to be manufactured and inventoried, and costs only a couple hoses.
They already switched the 23 mustang to in house drive unit.
Just checking in. Apparently we are darn near neighbors. Bloomfield Hills born and raised!
Yoooooo it’s brunch time
As always, great review. One small critique: Kevin has a tendency to soften and blend his speech at the end of sentences which makes it a little difficult to understand what he's saying. Kind of like trailing off into a mumble.
This is exactly where saving polluters should be focused. Trucks drive millions of miles a year. Model 3 etc no where near that. Any commercially used vehicle that can be made electric is the answer to reducing pollution. This is why the Tesla Semi is so important.
Cars are nowhere near the biggest polluters
All those gaps between the battery, frame and chassis look like big problems when the trucks are used in areas where salt is used on the roads.
Good Analysis, but I bet Sandy would have been more critical of Fords lack of optimization of design.
Sandy has been under a lightning multiple times. He seems to really like it
Is there an underfloor that goes on there to make a flat floor ?? 🤔
It does look like it is missing an aero cover of some polymer or composite. Munro staff usually take that sort of thing off for these hoist reviews, but they didn't mention it in this one.
But will they make lift kits for it !!
is there a aerodynamic bottom cover?
Yes, it's made of steel.
For context for younger viewers I’ll submit the rad position on the Z31 platform - leaned over rad for packaging. It’s been done for years when needed.
1 Thing I'd like to mention where are the calipers at?
Measure
Measure
Measure
I'd like to see the rear suspension compared to the Lincoln Navigator.
It's a multi-link on the expedition/navigator vs. semi-trailing arm on the Lightning
My mother in law has a 21 navigator and I prefer the ride of the lightning. Not as squished and doesn’t feel as jittery going around turns at speed
7:00
Look up Wind Tunnel Side view.......
In traditional tests, how much do we see of the airflow getting stuck in the cavities underneath the vehicles.......?
Air is like a fluid, close to liquid.... Then think about a boat, this would be ridiculous! Even Tesla's!
I can see it being closed in by 1 to maybe 4 if that sheets with airflow channels....
For sharp turns (sport), directional wings can deploy down assisting the turn.
👌🏾
You guys are safety conscious - it shows. Consider bump caps when under the lifts.
If that thing gets driven through a red clay muddy water pit it’s going to make messes forever everywhere. So many holes and areas for mud and dirt to get into. Might even add a couple hundred pounds when it’s all filled up with dirt underneath there.
Interesting to see how these hold up in the salt belt. NY state, Illinois etc. will have a field day on those lower control arms and exposed electronics wiring and connectors.
I'm guessing Jordan had the Lightning lifted to that height so Kevin couldn't fit underneath!
Why the drive shaft is so rusty?
You never owned a new car? Flash rust on heavy cast iron parts is the norm, not the exception. The flash rust actually becomes a protective coating.
Saves money not to paint them and there is no need to do it.
This is 100% typical and no cause for concern
Looks like the other IRS setups in fords smaller trucks.
What Ford model of this century, other than the E-Transit, has a semi-trailing arm suspension? All models that I have seen have multi-link designs.
21:13 Electric motors built by Ford as apposed to the Mach E motors which are not.
They have switched for 23
@@mattbrew11 I hope the in-house motors are just as good.
@@rkgsd I am a bit rare as I owned a model Y and traded it for a non gt mach E (gf drives it normally) and my business has 8 lightnings. I couldn’t tell you if its the inverter, battery or motors but the lightning is more predictable power wise than the mach E and is definitely smoother in delivery. We have two more coming and I really wish id ordered more because id love it as a personal vehicle but theres been some really good rumors about the incoming Ram.
All that being said I will need more range out of trucks to get to a place where im comfortable fully phasing out the full fleet because we do some far out jobs that require lots of time on site and often times they don’t have power beforehand.
I am sure like the Mach-e they will switch out innovations as designs get validated and parts go through the supply chain, they can't risk "production hell" being a big player in the truck space.
Commonality of parts like doors, bed, windshield, interior with the ICE F-150 helps reduce the high cost of maintaining and servicing most EVs especially if you will be doing truck stuff.
They did not have 12 years as a startup like Rivian to burn investors money on a clean slate skateboard design.
Ford took a "safe" approach for sure, and appears from the review to have done a good job balancing the "platform tax." It does make me curious if the tax is high enough to impact profitability for them though.
The mustang has already switch to a ford drive unit
I have to assume that from the point that Ford invested in Rivian (2019) they took a lot of that backlog of knowledge that Rivian had accrued and used that information in figuring out the best way to move forward with their truck.
I wonder what Honda will learn from GM.
@@sdcllc8727 Not much considering that Honda signed onto a basically unvetted platform. GM has a huge number of models betting on Ultium and so far only the Lyriq is out... but already has a recall with electronics. 🤷
Very interesting on the drive train - so MacE for the next model year is likely to have more Ford designed and produced parts on?
I read Ford's Van Dyke transmission plant is in the process of being converted to making E motors and gearboxes. Supposedly on line soon.
@@ohger1 so they going the Telsa route and doing everything themselves?
@@QALibrary I have no inside info, but it makes sense to bring everything in-house even if that means buying an existing company.
@@QALibrary I wouldn't jump to 'everything' but perhaps a few of the most important pieces - battery packs, motors, gearboxes, perhaps a few electrical components. I wonder who messed up the contactor in the Mach-E.
@@QALibrary Ford's been building their own power-trains for about 100 years.