Dune in about 3 minutes
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2020
- A short summary of Dune in about 3 minutes
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Designer: Bill Eberle, Jack Kittredge, Peter Olotka
Artist: Ilya Baranovsky
Publisher: Gale Force Nine, LLC
BGG Entry: www.boardgamegeek.com/boardga...
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I played this back in the 80's and 90s and yep, its the same game. I like it, but I feel it clashes with a lot of modern board game sensibilities. It's unforgiving and I enjoy it for that, but its a game that needs resilience and maturity from its players. Its definitely one that can be derailed by someone having a sulk, in a similar way to diplomacy or Game of Thrones. Any modern games you can think of that have this sort of brutality in them?
Kingdom death: Monster. The first time I played it, 2 of our 4 characters died in the prologue encounter
True, but that's a co-op. So everyone loses basically. Small world might be one, but that's not new
Some might argue Nemesis with how swiftly one can die.
Most modern games should come with a set of pacifiers (soothers) in player colors. They could be thematically shaped like a thumb.
The Estates is similarly brutal, with the crucial difference that it will probably all be over in an hour or less. The problem with a game like this one or diplomacy is not so much that they're mean, it's that you can spend *hours* slowly building something up and then have it all taken away from you in moments. I think conflictual and brutal is fine, but - for most players - conflictial, brutal and slow is probably not going to be a fun evening.
There are lengthy videos on CZcams about this game that say less than you do in 3 minutes. Bravo!
Cheers, always the plan :)
I've been meaning to play Dune for a few years now. The thing that always appealed to me the most was the very unique "rule breaking" various factions do. And the crazy combos players can do if they ally with one another, since allies get benefits of both factions.
Had some really memorable moments playing Dune at six player, especially with a Bene Gessert prediction win. But I love the books, movies, mini series and pc game. It is very thematic to the extent if you don’t know it, it probably isn’t as enjoyable. With the original coming out in 79 some of the concepts were quite revolutionary
For a game from the 70's its mindblowingly advanced mechanically.
I gotta say, I *LOVE* the redesign by Ilya77. So happy they hired him of all people to make this commercial version.
Yeah, im not familiar with the artist, but i love the look of Dune. It's striking
Agreed! I was very happy to see they ended up using his art. :-)
Is there anyway to get the other factions: Landsradd, Iduali, Richese, ect printed one the same quality?
@@thomasdeitsch9515 Richese, CHOAM, the Ix, and Tleilaxu exist as official expansion packs!
Also, forgot to mention that Gale Force nine are an NZ owned company. So Aotearoa represent! The vid should have the "promoting NZ gaming tag" on it.
I didn't know that. Cool! And I'm looking forward to see what else they do with this license. I adore the Dune franchise, and Gale Force 9 have a very good reputation for I.P. Games.
Hell yeh it should!
Do you have many NZ followers? I feel like most would be from US
My demographics are very much in line with the English speaking BG industry as a whole 50% North America, 35% EU and UK, 8% AUS/NZ and then the rest of the world make up the remainder.
@@3MBGI'm a fellow kiwi and that's really all that counts.
Put it simple no lag no drag of extra crap straight up in how to play. You're one of the best in the few out there that actually explained board games are very well! Aaaand Subscribed!
Cheers! I was inspired by Roxettes greatest hits album "don't bore us, get to the chorus" :)
I used to play this in the early eighties. I wasn't a big fan of it, but a lot of my friends were, so I played. It's amazing how balanced it is considering the asymmetry. A great game (just not to my taste).
You did a seriously GREAT review here. So much info and so well presented. It's been a great pointer video for getting people into the game. Thank you.
basically, this game is realistically unforgiving.
there are no god's rules protecting you just like in real life.
if you fuck up you lose everything as you should, although sometimes it can feel unfair because how where you supposed to predict that you also know that everyone else has the same problem, and every time you play again you will have more and more strategies more tactics and more predicting to prevent chaos.
basically, Dune is a game that gets better every time you play it.
it's literally like this:
Beginning:
You are all new recruits in command of an entire nation in an unforgiving world, you don't know many of the dangers and the tactics to survive, everyone has to test things out possibly losing it all.
2nd game:
You now have some knowledge of what happens in the world, you no longer get tricked by the simples traps and tricks, but you are still unprepared and not good at managing your resources and your actions
3rd game:
You probably spent most of your days thinking of tactics to use in-game that you can't wait to use, you saw many things and yet you know there are a lot more things to see, you finally know how to move in the world although not with perfection.
10th game:
You are an incredible veteran, you learned how to move and survive this cruel and dangerous world, you know the tricks and the traps of your enemies and the world itself, you know how to move and avoid danger as much as possible you have tactics from the past and the present that prepare you for many possibilities, you know what can happen and have an idea of what could happen of new.
you are a true veteran, and yet you still aren't safe.
100% agree with this, one reason i love it. It's mean, but in a good way. Every action has risk and fear.
The advanced rules make the game much better, but also much more complicated. It is a brutal game regardless, but I would love for an overhaul of the rules to make it more streamlined.
It was great fun playing this with you.
I read the review for this game back in the 80s in the Avalon Hill "general" magazine. it looked interesting but I just wasn't that much into sci-fi in those days (that hasn't changed much).
I played the new version of this game just 4-5 weeks ago and kept saying "I know this game", in the end I was right. Because I knew the core mechanics and some of the strategies I thought I had an advantage (I was the Emperor), but after two armies were eaten by sandworms and another two were annihilated by traitors and unlucky weapon combos I was effectively out of the game. Definitely a game that would require multiple plays to work out the best strategy !
All in all I would give this game a definite two thumbs up, the updated graphics really bring this old warhorse up to the state of the art.
Hahaha, yeah, the game has always been brutal and losing a dozen guys in a few bad plays is a real game changer. Glad you enjoyed it
I giggled harshly at 0:14. THE QUEEN IS NOT AMUSED!
hahaha, yep. That's all her work and concept as well. Solo mode graphic, I WILL BE THE QUEEN!
Oh man, what I would give to play it. This is one of those you really need all the players for the theme! Just like twilight imperium. But to convince anyone and finding the day to play it is a challenge by itself.
Fantastic game overview in just a few minutes...the spice must flow
Still my favorite game of all time. No game I’ve played creates more memorable moments which you tell stories about years later. Yes it’s brutal. Yes it’s dated. but those are virtues in today’s marketplace of games that hold your hand. Few games prepare you for reading board state like Dune. And that’s why all hobbyists should play it semi-regularly
A war of whispers is also fantastic because it foes 75% of Dune in about 75 minutes. An elegant game.
A Game of Thrones is good but it suffers from a lack of real theme because of a lack of asymmetry
I really like the GoT version of Cosmic Encounter more. The Iron Throne
GoT has asymmetry, but its the diplomacy style of static positions with resource availability and the house cards. But yeah, i feel GoT could have gone a different direction as well.
@@3MBG Yeah, the asymmetry comes from the board position. All I wanted from that game was one simple power that broke the rules which added a little more character. It's a good game, but not a great one and that's unfortunate. It's why I really like The Iron Throne, which is the only version of Cosmic Encounter I'll play anymore.
I love the sharing of responsibilities the different players have. Wish more semi-competetive games had that sort of feature.
I'm not sure what you mean here
I too played this game back in the 80s and 90s. Great stuff , love this game and concept. It is unfortunately one of those games nobody around here will play with me because they consider it too complex...... I do not think it is that bad no more complex than Scythe really but, people get all intimidated. Still good stuff, good review!
I find with Dune, if ONE person is into the theme, it's almost enough, It took a lot to get them to play, but once I did they thoroughly enjoyed it, despite never having read all watched Dune.
That's fair. I'm personally not a fan of the books but had seen the film and played the PC game, and that was enough for me. We have some real fans in our group who could fill in the blanks for me though
A few more month and by the end of this year, all it takes to get people into the theme is make them watch another awesome Villeneuve movie 🍿
Good point, looking forward to that as well. I dont really read fiction and found Dune hard to get into. But id love a good adaption. I enjoyed the lynch film, even if it was weird and according to friends took some really big liberties with the setting.
@@3MBG watching the old lynch movie is what got me into the universe. The Books hooked me further.
I love this game, although there is something that feels so bad about losing everything and then having to partake in a game that could go on for hours.
Nice review!
Being an avid book and movie fan of Dune, I bought it as soon as I saw the reboot for it. I have no memory of the game back in the 80's, weird. Now, if I could just find 5 people who want to play this as much as me.
That's the rub with this one, 6 player game is where its at and thats a hard group to pull together of everyone being keen, familiar and robust enough to play it out.
I really want to track down a copy of a war of whispers. It sounds so amazing!
It's not without flaws. Part of the foibles of the game is you really are discouraged from table talk. Also, initial draw of factions seems to make a difference as those who start with more backers initially tend to get helped, which can lead to a weird sameness in the scores as everyone shifts to the same factions.
3 Minute Board Games I can definitely see that in a game based on what I’ve seen on how it works. I do hope they explore that aspect of war games more. I picked up a copy of Dune as well a few months ago and was soooo close to getting six people together but didn’t work out. Luckily my group gets a kick out of betrayals and more just enjoys cool mechanics. We are always mean to each other in Twilight Imperium and it makes for good stories after.
Do you have any games that have this level of asimetric powers and rule breaking by different factions?
Root is the obvious one that is on par with Dune in terms of asymmetry and rule breaking.
@@3MBG Yea, i really want to like root, but the win condition is points that are 100% public, so most of the game feels like fucking up the top dog and then someone winning through basically rock paper scissors luck. I really liked the a war of whispers recomendation tho, but if i want asymmetry im sticking with dune. Many thanks!
The Great books and Great game !!!
Some of the mechanics in this game reminded me of a personal favorite of mine (from what little I know), Cosmic Encounters. It's on Tabletop Simulator, and I would love to hear your opinions if you played it, as I'm a beginner and I don't know if it's actually good or just novel to me.
Confession. I have not played Cosmic since, um... 1993 or so? So my memory of it is hazy at best.
it is a classic game for a reason though
Late comment. But this game is made by the same creators of Cosmic Encounters, which is probably why the games have similar concepts of “simple rules, but each faction can break them somehow”
Who has the shield in the battle phase overview?
Feyd/harkonnen/right
And how can this be?? For he IS the Kwisatz Hederach!
Any thoughts on player count? I keep hearing that it's only worth playing at 5 or 6. But it claims to work for 3 and 4... What's your experience been?
6 or bust. 5 could probably work, but 3 or 4? Nah.
6 is most awesome, with 5 you leave the bene gesserit out. I have played it with four (advanced rules) and that also works. I wouldn't try 3 players tho. If you choose to play with 4, leave the emperor out.
What about Rex? How is it comparing them? Wich one is better?
Asides from the theme, they are virtually the same game. There are a bunch of very small mechanical changes, but yeah, they dont add up to it being a hugely different experience.
@@3MBG thanks a lot, it would be really hard for me to get Dune, so Rex should be just fine.
REALLY THANK YOU.
Fun fact. Fantasy Flight did a reskin of this. Twilight Imperium Rex: Final Days of an Empire.
Yep. I mention that one in a video in my "the games I got rid of" series. As i owned it for nearly a decade. Finally selling it when this one was announced.
So I'm asking wherever I can: What's the consensus on The Emperor's "sharing his wealth" ruling? Is it fluff text?
Not sure what you mean here.
@@3MBG I got really confused about the alliance ability of the Emperor, which says you can "share your great wealth" without specifying what that means, but I already found my answer on the alliance card. Thanks anyway!
@@DeRueben Oh right. Well, glad you got an answer, lol :)
Wow, I did not believe you could review that game in 3 minutes.
Heh, i hear that a fair bit.
3:33 Ok, I will not enjoy Dune. Good to know.
(Seriously though, your talent for cutting to the pertinent info for me in short order is uncanny, this channel is a godsend sometimes)
Cheers. I'm all about people finding games that suit them, not the hard sell. So if the recap made you go "not for me", that's a win
Lets go
So you can win or loose simply on one play, with no forgiving? Sounds a lot like real life.
For me Dune was & still is Boardgames Holy Grail.
One of the very first hobby games i encountered back in the 80's. Its reprint has been so long awaited by so many people
@@3MBG I am one of those.
I'm a huge Dune fan, but probably won't get the game for exactly the cons you listed off. Look gorgeous, sounds like it be fun to try once, but can't imagine having it on my shelf any reasons beyond the art and my love of the theme.
I think the key thing with Dune is its a game that grows based on replays. The brutalness of it is offputting to many at first, but once you really get the games ebbs and flows, plays become more nuanced. you don't see big stacks of troops as often, and people do probing attacks to see cards. The meta game picks up.
But yeah, its very much not one i recommend for everyone.
How would you compare it with Rex? If somebody already owns Rex, would you reccomend switching?
Only if the theme is what would make the difference. I've played both and i know there are some small differences mechanically, but they are small.
Yes. Rex removes some of the important asymmetry of the Karama cards. But adds some other cool variants to play. There’s a hybrid version of Rex that I think would rock. Adding some of what FFG took out but not all of it
Dune is a fantastic game but the biggest roadblock is trying to get enough players
100% agree
dune vs dune imperium?
Apples vs Oranges. One's a classic asymmetric game of negotiation and conflict, the others a deck builder/worker placement game. Asides from the theme, they deliver entirely different experiences to different audiences. If you like conflict, go with the original. If you don't go with imperium.
If I had playgroup of 6 who are into long complex games I'd rather play TI, this is too clunky even tho I prefer Dune's theme.
You're joking right? You think this is clunkier than Twilight Imperium? I could get if you said it was richer or more thematic or more involved. But Dune is pretty simple compared to TI.
Also takes 1/2 to a 1/3rd of the time.
This game is less and less fun the fewer players there are.
Oh yes, its 6 or bust. I think i mentioned that in my "games that are best at 6" video
@@3MBG I have met people who play this two players, who claim they prefer it that way. Madness.
When we will get a new PC Dune game?
In the 90s I enjoyed this real-time strategy game.
Me too, Dune 2 was like, the first awesome RTS.
Do you think allowing players to go off and have secret discussions would add value to a play session, or make it worse?
I'm talking like a scheduled 5 minute break and people can plot and scheme to their desire.
I think potentially when the new alliances card comes up, that would be fine. I think doing it routinely would be messy as
It was always a brutal game. The only problem was finding 6 players. It never worked properly with less
I know you far prefer the theme of Dune, having mentioned such in previous videos, but how do the mechanics compare to Rex: Final Days of an Empire? How different are they? Did Rex "fix" or change anything significant when they modernized the design (by 2012 standards)? I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone online, all I ever get is "DUNE 4EVERRR" from the nostalgia crowd. I feel like you, as a level-headed reviewer, can actually provide a solid answer even considering your love of the Dune setting.
Cheers on a great video and actually managing to condense relevant information about this monster of a game into 4 minutes.
Edit: ah crap I just found that someone else already asked this. Oh well. Cheers anyhow.
There's a few smoothing out of the rules in Rex. IIRC and its been a while, the Karama cards are either missing or work differently, recovery rates for troops and leaders is more forgiving and movement on the board is easier. I personally feel the changes don't make the game dramatically different, but it is less "brutal" in most respects
Not a fan of the new graphics for "players", "play time" and "complexity". There's too much information at once on the screen.
On first viewing by the time I knew which part of the screen you were talking about you had already moved on.
Fair enough, in general though the information is on screen for the same amount of time as before, except the first 2 stay up. So i suspect once people adjust it will be better
I am in the same boat, didn't dig the new graphics right away. I do appreciate trying to convey information about the game, but didn't like the layout. Maybe cause I'm used to previous graphics, or new one is too busy, or just need to get used to it... Feel like really good graphic design doesn't take time/thought to grasp
@@3MBG But there's a difference if the information is in the middle of the screen (where our focus was in the previous shot) or if it is going from left to right (breaking our line of focus from the previous shot) accompanied by small text. For the latter the viewer needs a lot more time.
Tweaked them slightly for the most recent vid. So they are all on screen for longer.
@@3MBG watched the latest video, great and quick overview as always! Thanks for the update, keep up the good work.