Arm Blades & Spiked Shields: Better Than You Think?
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- čas přidán 31. 08. 2021
- Plenty of video games, movies, and other fantasy fiction features arm claws, wrist blades, and similar weapons. Typically associated with assassins, rogues, barbarians, gladiators, and beastmen.
In real-life history they are generally rare, with a few exceptions like the Indian Katar and Pata (sword gauntlet). Is that for a good reason or are they underappreciated? In this video I discuss the practical pros & cons, look at a few historical examples, and show some ideas for effective designs.
Older video about the bizarre lantern shield:
• The most bizarre shiel...
Follow-up video about the best off-hand weapon for adventurers or travelling duelists:
• The Best Off-Hand Weap...
** Sources / Links **
Roman scissor model by Humster3D
• Roman Scissor 3D model...
19th century pata
www.mandarinmansion.com/item/...
Bladed fantasy shield designs
www.deviantart.com/jrcoffroni...
www.artstation.com/artwork/o6...
Medieval & renaissance sources
www.wiktenauer.com/
** Music **
"Winds of Stories" by Horror Pen
opengameart.org/content/winds...
Creative Commons Attribution 3.0
Intro song:
"Illuminate" by Vindsvept
vindsvept.bandcamp.com/track/...
Used with artist's permission
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom.github.io/stev...
Used with artist's permission
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This is a follow-up video, with more about off-hand weapons: czcams.com/video/4t4-VzDI99Y/video.html
Instead of 'arm blades', 'fixed blade gauntlets' (non-push dagger variety) may be more in the direction you're looking for. When you mentioned arm-Shields & Wolverine, one thing came to mind: the Japanese Tekko-kagi. Tekko-kagi's is what you get when you cross Wolverine's bladed claws with a glove. Unlike a Katar, tekko-kagi's have 2 anchoring points of contact, the first being a cross beam for grip and the second being rope to secure around either the wrist or the upper forearm (depending on the variation of tekko-kagi). If the tethering is done along the forearm, the bars which makes up the blade would extend along the forearm as basic protection. Now if you add a shield to the forearm section and you get really close to what you're looking for.
"Double tiger head shields" These are... unique czcams.com/video/7fhF87XVrFM/video.html
Quick Question, What about blades perpendicular to your arm like the predator wristblades? Are there any special advantages or disadvantages? I know you would cut differently.
Also, YES, Duel wielding these is a huge advantage.
My gut says the less common nature of the forward-spiked shield is mostly due to larger shield designs being less agile, and so less useful in terms of offense. Larger shields seem to be prioritized for defense against archery, and so if smaller shields went out of fashion, than the offensive-shield may have become less useful a design by proxy.
Make swordfighting into a rhythm game and you can be a Katar Hero
👏👏👏..you cheeky bastard
Katar Heroes? More like Couch Pata-toes! :P
There's already sword combat in Absolver, some of the "wargloves" are very much like punch daggers, and it's definitely a rhythm game as much as a fighting game. Mostly about unarmed combat though. Swords break in Absolver after a relatively small amount of use, fists don't. Because realism.
@@a-blivvy-yus To be fair, the swords are materialized from what is essentially magic energy in the form of tension shards. They still should be a bit more durable, but we can't expect to get that given that it is abandoned.
@@Coobster432 well, yes, but that sounds way less fun than "swords break and fists don't because realism" (I know there's in-universe reasoning behind it, but it's still kinda silly)
Also, if your hands don't work well for whatever reason (Old inujury, lame from disease, whatever) gauntlet swords make sense to keep someone active on the battlefield when normally they'd be forced to retire.
That reminds me of Galvarino, a Mapuche warrior whose hands were cut off by the Spanish colonial government. After being released as an example to his people, he spurred an uprising and had blades strapped to his arms so he could still fight. An extreme example, of course, but...hey, if you're resolved...
there's a guy who had a whole knife rig attched to his arm skal made a vido about it a while ago
@@TClaymore aguante Galvarino no mató niun wn pero la hizo bien🤠👍🏿
@@elshebactm6769 The Spanish had armor and muskets, the Mapuche should've used hit-and-run.
Finally. Accessibility in a war.
Finally, Skall has shown us the secret technique of one-handed dual wielding!
It won't be long until he unleashes his ultimate *QUAD-WIELDING TECHNIQUE!*
Bladed shield on each wrist and sword in each hand.
...or be Goro and octo-wield.
Penta-weild if you hold another sword in your teeth.
@@aRandomFox00 hexa-wield for double bladed sword in your mouth
Dark Souls 4 should take notes!
@@charlesdewemple9085 Videogames have already shown us how to hexa-wield, you hold a sword between each pair of fingers. (See Sengoku Basara's Date Masamune and Senran Kagura's Homura for examples.)
If holding a sword while wearing an arm blade counts as duel wielding, then duel wielding with two arm blades counts as *quad* wielding!
This!
"Fine, I will deal with this Jedi slime, myself"
Hello there
Bro if you have four swords, you like have, four times the power, imagine ?!
And then you hold a knife in your mouth.
This is my favourite kind of fantasy weapon analysis video: pros, cons, potential historical examples, and possible designs. It's not just thirty minutes of complaining about the impracticality wrist blades or double-headed axes.
@quetzalpacheco lol I wanted to be the one to say that.
Both shad and skall do both of those kinds of videos.
I think Skal and Shad videos are similar but Shad explicitly talks about the conclusion and also make more "drawback outweighs benefits" kind of arguments. In this video, seeing how bad the arm blade parries (awkward for horizontal cuts and will be something the opponents aim at) we can also considered it impractical, but Skal does give more benefit of the doubt to the weapon design when it has some merits.
Since we are talking about this,how about checking out the Armorsmith Lantern Shield? A modern version of the old lantern shield,so that you can try its effieciency.
Skal already did a video on Lantern Shields.
@@theobserver6579 yeah i saw,but this a modern replica. Looks interesting to me.
do you have a link?
@@Jim58223 czcams.com/video/T0MbqWl4slc/video.html
@@theobserver6579 he also did a video or so on swords. He can make multiple videos on one subject.
If you're ever able to get your hands on an armblade-like weapon that could be safely used in sparring I'd love to see these advantages and disadvantages put to a practical test!
I made one many years ago, and it was very rarely useful. Never felt any need to recreate it.
I like the last one, actually with a curved pick end rather than a straight spike. Hooking onto the opponents shield to pull them is nifty, and generally wasn't going to allow you to block anyway.
.....wait, wouldn't it basically be a pirate hook then?
Why not both? Something like a a bill ending, but obviously thinner.
A bill hook blade on an arm shield would be cool
I have previously upstaged the "dual wielding shields" meme thing in Armored Core. In 5th-generation AC, I built a mech which carries 4 shields. My objective with it was literally to just eat incoming fire for as long as possible while my teammates murdered the opposition. As the saying goes... if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.
The two things that come to mind for why isn't this a thing is manufacturing limitations (i.e. not that easy to safely put a spike or a blade on a shield that works well) and manufacturing weapons isn't an open market of ideas for anyone to choose what they want. Blacksmiths make what they've learned for armies and not for a duelist, monster hunter, adventurer that has the disposable income, battles often and would try to change the norms of battle (that might get him killed).
It's difficult, in modern times, to realize that good quality hardened steel just simply was not a thing for the vast majority of human history. It was generally pretty expensive too, and might have to come from far away. Especially for things like springs and the more delicate workings of the fancier arm blades, you need excellent and *precision* materials. That's a whole lot of expense and time, and why bother with that when you can churn out basic shields and spears way quicker? Not a whole lot of special training needed either.
simple answer - MONEY. not everyone could afford full armor why bother with that exotic weaponry
i think the reason is like every new or old technology it's not always the best design that wins out in the end it's what you're trained to use, like why make something like this when blacksmiths are trained to make and sell more common weapons like swords and the common foot soldier is trained for most of their life to use those common weapons and in the end it would take to long for them to relearn years of knowledge and experience instead of just improving what they know
Eh. I have to lean towards ‘liability’, cause of some idiot maiming themselves and suing the codpiece off of the manufacturer.
@@paulpolito2001 wouldn't happen. You would be ridiculed for maiming yourself and that is it.
Wolverine's blades are suggested to be a design mess through and through, it's his healing factor what compensates all the operative hindrances making him the ideal user for those weapons.
He even just punches dudes without popping his claws from time to time
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 i mean, even without the claws, that's still being punched by metal knuckles
The one problem I see with how everyone criticizes wolverines claws is that people don't take into account the material that they're made out of. His claws are made of Adamantium, which is harder and stronger than any metal, and is its own element. This means that wolverines claws are atomically sharp and will never blunt, so using the psuedoscience of popculture the majority of the drawbacks of his claws are nullified.
"It's his healing factor..."
Lol, it's the fact that IT'S FICTION, SO WRITERS CAN CREATE WHATEVER SCENARIO/OUTCOME THEY CHOOSE, no matter how stupidly impractical or unrealistic.
Lol "lucky he has that healing factor!!"
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 Go read ‘Weapon X’, the comic that narrates in a very gruesome way how Wolverine got his blades, you’ll like it.
Also, Wolverine was originally intended to be one-time-only contender for Hulk but, after that one issue, readers liked him so much that Marvel decided to make him a regular character. Wolverine is not product of convenient writing BS but audience demand, so creators suddenly had to elaborate further on how his powers work, somehow. It is what it is.
why a lack of bladed shields... one reason may be that blades sometimes get stuck in wood, which is plentiful on the battlefield. spikes can also allow the enemy to control your shield.
Good point. Also I imagine self injury would be a big problem
Also,I’d say weight is an issue too
Might or might not work for adventurers, since normally they are by themselves. Could be bad if things go wrong.
I can still see this kinda thing being a good dueling weapon. But maybe the ease of carrying makes it hard to use it for self-defense.
@@bosknight7837 Not necessarily. Let's say we keeping the radius of a certain shield type and "just" remove material from the frame to get spikes, it would be lighter. The cons would be on protection side f.e. if you need something to protect you from arrows, you want a shield that is as big as possible. A "jawline" on your shield would give your opponent more openings for thrusts too and if your culture has a fighting style where a formation relies on shields, you better abondon everything that could hurt the people next to you.
I’ve had a interest in this sort of thing ever since I saw the movie, “Willow”, where I believe he uses the sword-gauntlet on his left hand, and it becomes more useful to him after half the length breaks off and he can use it to stab close-quarters… :)
Was able to show that movie to my sons for the first time last month. Great flik. Brought back a lot of memories of making pata from cardboard n duct tape
"Win this war for me..." - Airk
The shorter versions also have the advantage of efficiency in training. If you teach someone to box and then give them a spiked shield or katar, they’ll pick it up a lot faster than they will a sword or an axe. They’d only have to learn one style instead of a separate armed and unarmed system.
Well, there would be some adjustment- depending on the blade angle they might have to re-learn fist alignment while punching, guards/ defenses would be changed a bit, and anything based around grabbing somebody would be out (and guillotine's, some grappling moves, etc. would be much less workable). But overall, good point.
It's always interesting seeing the crossover between fantasy and reality and how sometimes fantasy is really close.
Lack of shields with rim blades or rim spikes might be due to formation fighting. It might be hard to do a sheild wall when the guy next to you has a blade pointed at your throat. These things would really shine in self defense or dueling situations
I think this has to be the most important argument against it.
Alone it seems very practical, especially while holding a spear or other long ranged weapon, if the enemy get a hold of it and is moving in short range.
But that is a 1v1, which is of course far from the main focus of big armies clashing.
This really feels like a matter of fighting style and whether you’re a barehanded fighter adding blades or a swordsman adding more unarmed fighting techniques
Would like to see your thoughts on punching gauntlets, eg not specifically designed to be a main weapon but with the potential to weaponize your armour in a last ditch scenario
Reminds me of a mmo called Flyff with a class called Billposter, that used a gauntlet and shield, but if you took two of those Flyff knuckle weapons, whew.
@@LilyBlossom1337 I always think of the dwarves from RA Salvatore's series who just roll around in giant spiked armour punching things to death lol.
He did a video similar a month ago titled, "Nothing but gauntlets vs. sword." You can search his channel and see it. It might not exactly as you want, but a lot of what he talks about in the video apply to fighting with gauntlets and defending yourself with them if that was your only option.
The only thing that comes to mind that I don’t recall you mentioning is the scottish targe which you no doubt know was often used with a dagger poking out the side. Not quite the same I know but basically has the same effect as a shield with a blade attached.
That's what I thought of
The targe also occasionally had a long Spike sticking straight out of the boss.
In the End of this Video is a Real spiked shield between minute 21-22 czcams.com/video/Ma4Ga7e3Fsc/video.html
look
It's one of the illustrations shown, together with another spiked round shield.
I like this concept SO MUCH! Dual weilding these arm-attached blades seems as one of the few examples of an effective dual weilding, really. Especially, if they are hard components covering the whole arm or even armshields, as you mentioned.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned this but the spiked pavis could be used in a similar way and was seen a lot in Italy
Either way I loved this video so much skall as a Shield Afficianado who has been obsessed with the idea of turning shields into more offensive tools this is exactly what I needed.
I always loved Rayne's arm blades. The fact that they can fold backwards adds some convenience. I never saw anything like it before I found the Bloodrayne games, and I was a fan ever since. And I think she utilizes them pretty well, realistic enough for her abilities. Maybe lacking in some situations, but that's mostly based on game mechanics/limits lol.
Being a hyper durable vampire really lends itself to the type of no-holds-barred all out offense approach of using arm blades and guns at the same time.
I wonder if there was actually some warrior in history who fought with two pavises or just two such shields. Properly shaped shield can be great weapon.
There's some evidence for it in Chinese Martial Arts.
There's also a martial art using a specificaly sized bench. China seems to have been a very silly place before before the Boxer Uprising.
To me, the only practical application to dual wield shields is if there were a line or two of such shieldmen in front of a charging formation and deployed such a way to act similar to linemen in football.
@@AMoistEggroll even then I feel like four lines of people with one shield is more effective that two lines of men with a shield in each hand.
I don't think so, unless we are talking some sort of crazy dueling, in which pretty much anything usable is good enough if both parties agree.
I think there was something close to it. His name was Galvarino, a Mapuche warrior with knives for hands.
I love this kind of videos, they are my favorite!
I'm with you there.
I’ve always loved the concept of fighting claws and particularly spiked, or otherwise armed, shields. I’d like to see more content and maybe even tests with armed shields!
All this buckler talk made me interested in the good old parry dagger. Did he talk about parry daggers in the past already?Could be cool
My favorite is the parrying dagger with a small sword. Speed determines the winner.
Pretty sure he has on one of his dual wield videos
Japanese Tekko Kagi's.
Man, in every 90's beat em up game, their existed at least one common enemy, or even a boss with those claw weapon's.
Of course Vega from street fighter in another example.
Baraka from Mortal Kombat is more of an arm sword. Similar to Blood Rayne's.
It's one of those most commonly seen/known fantasy weapon's that you rarely see outside of the fantasy/gaming world.
And when you do see them online, they're usually more like these cheaply made Chinese variation's with no real practical functionality.
Trust me, I've checked the majority of them out. Their exist very few that are exactly as you see in the aforementioned games.
You would think with how common they are, that you'd see them commonly in reality, or being sold online. That maybe someone out there at least created some identical, practical, functional claw weapon. But nope. Again, the few that do exist are large, bulky, and just plain ugly looking. Unwieldy. The claw's are barely long enough, and look nothing like Vega's.
Forget about those Pantera Knuckle Duster ones. Or the cheaply made skull claw. And the tiger claw. Don't think i haven't seen those. I've seen them all. And was waiting for someone to test them out for the past 17 year's. I'm not kidding.
I've checked all over CZcams, and rarely find anyone testing them legitimately. ZBG tested the cheap skull display. Because that's all it is, a display. It broke apart easily.
Skall, you should definitely buy all of these claw and arm sword weapon's, and test the practicality of them. Maybe connect with someone who can make legitimate one's, and see how that goes.
That can be a thing I'm sure many people would be interested in. It would definitely answer so many unanswered question's.
Oh, and what about that Movie Smokin Aces, the Assassin, who's main Weapon is a hidden spike that deploys similarly to the Assassin Creed's Hidden Blade? Someone needs to get on that.
I think probably the closest 'real-world' weapon to the bladed arm-shield is the bladed tonfa. Obviously it's held with a handle rather than being attached to the arm, but the way in which you can use it lying against the arm to defend whilst having a jabbing spike is pretty close, as is the fact that they can be used very effectively in pairs.
This reminds me of Shadiversity's video on the Assassin's Creed hidden blade. Fixing a weapon on your arm seems to make too many problems if you're using it in a straight fight. Something sharp on a shield still seems reasonable to me.
Would you consider doing a video on knuckleduster designs and the techniques used for them? I know that they're illegal in maple land, but you can still read and speculate about them. If one is made well enough to fit the user's hand, then it seems like a good weapon to fit inside a pocket. Concealable, no maintenance, and it can shatter bones.
Shad also made a great video on the spiked shields and went down the same arm shield route as Skall
I am aware of several knuckleduster designs that make use of spikes...essentially like window breakers. As long as you aren't attempting to fight someone with 'actual weapons' it really is just optimising contact preassure or push-dagger designs. If you're talking like affixing knife sized points, then you'd be better off just using things like in the video do to the risk of just a parry, grapple, or bad contact snapping your knuckles/fingers.
To be fair, hidden blade isn't for a straight fight. Though in the game you can still use it like that and even parry swords IIRC.
Knuckle dusters and designs of that nature are dangerous to the wielder. Even finely made, fitted well, and used expertly, they pose a huge risk of twisting in the hand and/or having the hand compress into them. They very commonly would break/fracture your own fingers, and sometimes your wrist. But it's very common for them to break peoples fingers, even today. Those WW1 trench knifes broke many a set of fingers.
great concept skall, nice combination of quick defense options and both short and long distance offense move possibilites during combat.
I have seen 2 shields with blades (sort of) in my life, through photos. The first is a Zulu warrior shield, they usually had a spike or spear at the bottom end of the shield. Seemed useful for some combat maneuvers, finishing off downed opponents, and a way to place on the ground while it still stands up. The second was an Pacific Islander shield made from tortoise shell and bamboo. They had shark teeth around the edges. This might have been for show, but could also be deadly! Same tribe would also make bamboo swords with blades made from what teeth btw…
That all said, the reason I think spikes from the forearm (or swords for that matter) bring out a very animalistic view or style, like the claws of almost all predators in the wild. Using something this way can be a great psychological weapon against an opponent, even if not all practical…
I do find Talim's elbow blades to be interesting, since they are essentially bladed tonfas. I have to wonder if there's any way to swing a tonfa out with so much force that it can actually hurt and not just plink harmlessly off, whether or not it was bladed. Even as someone who owns a pair of tonfas, all I know of their techniques is just enhanced punches; due to the slight extension beyond the fist and with said extension being smaller around than a fist, thus delivering more sharp impact than a normal punch; and blocks that obviously protect you more.
Not exactly "arm blades" in that sense, but, maybe it could somewhat count? I dunno, lol.
But in Jaime Lannister's case, I do think mounting a blade to his right arms will be a better option than training to wield sword with his left hand.
Why not both? Strap something like a parrying dagger to the stump and use it to cover for the left hand sword.
Been a while since I’ve seen a video of yours. Glad you are still doing what you love 🙌😍
Good video on the topic, and I love the background you're using.
I just love when Skall talks about plausible fantasy stuff, then says "It's just cool", and shows a picture of sexy breasty red head.
Gotta respect that.
Ahh, Bloodrayne. All the films are the worst, the games are pretty okay. There was a lot of potential there that was completely wasted.
@@brandonogden3498 Bloodrayne 2 best Bloodrayne imo
To be fair, she is a vampire and we get a lot of options to cheat when it comes to practicality in fighting. Also her weapons are these weird bladed tonfa things but with wrist attachments that remove the spinny moves you could normally use tonfa for. Very odd but definitely cool weapon.
@@brandonogden3498 If any series needed a reboot, that could be a decent contender. Not many people know about Bloodrayne, I think. In fact, I think a company named Ziggurat Interactive is or was working on that. Unfortunately, even if the series did a reboot, I'm sure it would be... SJW'd.
@@theholytoilet6668 How? She's already a physical strong, capable, confident, independent, cocky, badass powerhouse, whose taken out any man stupid enough to cross her and literal gods.
By the standards of some very stupid people, she already is a sjw product. Of course they also only ever think with their dicks, so there's a real chance they've either haven't noticed, or are just massive goal post moving shitheads.
The Hidden Blade from the Assassin's Creed series is absolute garbage as a main weapon. BUT, it could have some great applications in assassinations as a thrusting weapon, or when combat comes to grappling, or perhaps even get an attack of opportunity in the fight, especially if the enemy is too concentrated on the tip of your blade.
You can't really expect much battle uses from something that can only be described as over-engineered shiv.
Good thing it was never intended as a primary weapon (much as the later games started to forget that...)
@@Candlemancer The scene in the Assassin's Creed Revelations where his hidden blade is broken by a sword strike got me thinking: "At last, some fucking ounce of realism"
@@andrejara4054 the thing with that is, at least canonically, only certain assassins in the franchise have been able to use their hidden blades in open combat because they were armor plated, making them more durable, and that wasn't common bc the specific materials for the plating weren't very common. Or, I think in Connor's case, it might've been purely because of the pivot design letting it be used as a normal dagger.
Its why ANY game with Desmond is bad. The three recent games started using the blades as intended; assassinations ONLY.
IIRC, Eivor doesn't use it if you have the left hand free. They just punch to parry. I think BF and Syndicate did the same. Maybe not, since BF was in that era of Ezio controls. Can't remember Syndicate combat, because its been too long.
Thanks for reading my mind. I was wondering about this when playing an Elder Scrolls game.
Absolutely ecstatic to see this one! Especially being point to point with a comment of mine about a week ago on the gauntlet vid; definitely felt like personal response lol. Glad to see the 'bear claw arm shield' gets your full approval in design! As well as an equal amount of confusion why more such designs don't exist.
Adding to the discussion. Look at tekko- kagi. It's sort of a claw with a simple protection to the hand. I dont know if there were longer versions that protected the forearms, but it's an interesting parallel. congratulations for the content, skall.
So I’ve been thinking about your lack of views recently and the best I can come up with is your clickbait titles need a bit of work. Cause I really can’t think of anything else. Enjoying your work.
I know, I'm not good at clickbait and don't want to be. I'd rather use descriptive titles that are not misleading. Although I've had to try making thumbnails more eye catching, otherwise the videos are just drowned out by everyone else. The titles could use improvement I'm sure, but it's not my strong side.
@@Skallagrim you’re a business, don’t be ashamed of that
@@Skallagrim it's pretty *cool* how open minded you are on more unconventional weapon concepts Skall; knowing *that* , I have *another* idea for an unconventional weapon concept video; double-headed battle-axes. Shad, or as *I* call him these days, Lindybeige II (in the *worst* way), fairly recently made a video saying that double-headed battle-axes were a *stupid* weapon, and a *lot* of the reasons he gave for this statement were based on *misconceptions, dismissive views* , and *unfair* comparisons to *swords* ; *seriously* , he tried to demonstrate the "awkwardness" of wielding a double-headed battle-axe by doing a hanging *sword swing* with it; which's *completely unfair* to *any* axe, let alone a *double-headed* one, because the art of swordsmanship is developed around the sword's *bottom* heaviness. But just like with arm blades and *other* unconventional weapon concepts, the double-headed battle-axe *is* in fact a historical weapon, if a much *rarer* one than any single-headed version; and that's because there *are* in fact a good number of *legit advantages* the double-headed battle-axe has over the single-headed one. I can give you some if you want.
The reason is simple. People in the times when it was used were dump. Good concept and viable. Absolutely love it.
I really liked your analysis about the bladed shields. I'm thinking about using it for a character since I find it cool. It also reminded me on Shadiversity's video on those same shields and how they could be used.
I’m really enjoying these fantasy weapon breakdowns! Now every time I play video games I can’t help but critique their designs. 😅
I hesitate to write this because it is awful, and I don’t condone animal abuse…but the forearm blades made me think of cock fighting.
They strap razor blades to the roosters’ feet where their rear claws are. That way when the rooster strikes using his normal fighting “technique”, he ends up using the razor blade as he attempts to claw at his opponent.
I always figured that’s why forearm mounted weapons are so common for beast-like fantasy characters (Baraka from Mortal Kombat is a perfect example). No intelligence or training is required to use a weapon that takes advantage of your natural movements.
Targe's had a spike and were strap shields leaving the hand open to hold a dirk, this was used in combination with a basket hilt claymore, certainly not a combo I'd want to face in close.
Fantastic content skall ! 🙂
A large Targe (covering the hand) with a dirk gripped icepick style, with a sword in the main hand, is something close to the combined shield weapon. It was used against bayoneted guns pressing in, using the targe to push the points upwards then use the dirk to stab the closest opponent.
You should check out the mapuche warrior Galvarino. (He had two blades instead of hands)
Looks like we've figured out how to triple/quadruple wield, boys
You got to get those numbers up those are rookie numbers.
*Flourishes two double-bladed swords around my double arm blades.
I love your channel, it like "wild untestable thoughts being tested, the channel historical source version"
I have always loved the spiked Pavis (don't know if I am spelling that right). Thank you for doing a video that included it.
This reminds me of gauntlets with spikes on the joints, like there are in some German gothic armours.
Yep, blunt spikes pointing sideways from the gauntlets would act like guards on a sword, preventing a deflected blade from sliding on to unprotected flesh.
"Then you're very very close"
You have two weapons and two shields, I feel like the strategy with this is to close distance quickly and kind of maul them like a grizzly bear.
I always love those armblades in games, they just look awesome
Thank you for you review of offensive shields. One of the protagonists in the story I'm working on uses shield and claws.
This lent l credibility to my design.
I think they are potentially useful, but reach is an issue.
In which case they'd be useful combined with the arm-shield/strapped buckler as an off-hand weapon; while using a longer sword or spear in the main hand. Not as much protection as a larger shield, but more maneuverable and able to take quick advantage of openings while the main weapon is otherwise engaged.
@@EphemeralTao Oh definitely. Or as an off-hand weapon with a buckler. Parry the attack with the main-hand sword, stab with the wrist-mounted blade. Or vice versa.
Another prominent character who wields an armblade is azog the defiler from the hobbit movies.
GREAT! video.... love exploring the slightly out of the ordinary weapons and armor out there with you as a guide😊👍 Been working on katar style off hand sword breakers. The open structure combined with a good gauntlet would make a terrifying left hand weapon .....maybe paired with a grosse messer 🤔😛
Thank you, I've always wanted to hear your thoughts on this cool topic.
Maybe you can do spar "training" with any of those improvised weapons you've shown us to see how practical it really is. I especially like the push dagger shield since instead of the common yet well balanced sword/shield combo, you now have an additional close quarter dagger during a grappling session.
When dueling a scizor, the main issue is weight. as it is affixed to the arm, and thus a person... you are not deflecting it. It is like trying to block or deflect a maul.
Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist uses a blade like that in his right arm, although it is a straight, broad blade attached to his forearm, but since his arm is a prosthetic, he can wield it without fear of it falling off
Edit: Oh wow he did appear! XD
dual-wielding katars is one of my fave rpg things. now i have to add arm-shields, which i didn't know existed.
"hey DM!"
hell yea I was asking about this type of weapon like a week ago thanks for the video
16:41 wow this is exactly what I had imagined idk if ive seen this image before and just don't remember but that type of shield with a point looks exactly how I'd imagine it
One of the reasons they weren't used could be the fact that if the blade bends towards you (as a result of a block or your own attack) you are left with shield that actively harms you whenever you move it too close to your body.
Want to block a strike to your legs? Too bad, the spike on your shield is now a hook that gets stuck in your knees.
So kinda along this line of thought I was wondering if you could do a breakdown as to why we think reverse grip is so cool culturally, I understand it's impractical, but why is it presented as being super cool? Why does it seem like it's inherently seen as cool even if you don't know anything about swordsmanship?
I think it has to do with a few things.
Typically reverse grip is nice on smaller blades that you want to stay hidden like a dagger or knife.
When using a longer sword there is a false sense of security. It is presented as a shield in a way (not very good but its also a blade so its "cool").
There are also the visuals of reverse grip. Against the body the blade is more visible to the camera than it would be outstretched with a lighter background.
There is also the fact reverse grip is typically associated with assassins and rogues (with shorter blades). And let's face it, those are cool.
Now I'm not saying reverse grip is useless on longer blades, but its effectiveness goes down as the blade gers longer (with very few exceptions, in very few styles).
@@jamessberna1330 I think some other potential aspects of it are that we know how a sword is supposed to be held, so if it is held in a unorthodox manner I think we are primed to think that the person doing so must have a good reason to do so whether that be because it is some exotic martial art that he is using or whether that be because of the person's confidence that they can use a goofy unconventional Style and still win either way it makes you think that the fighter is going to win.
The style is also often done specifically with curved swords such as katanas, there is already a lot of mystique and intrigue for Asian martial arts in Western media and culture.
I discovered the Lantern shield in an old compendium of weapons and armor when I was in collage back in the late 80s. (Yes. I'm old.) The lantern shield and the "Gladiator's gauntlet" (from D&D) fascinated me. Extreme versatility.
I got immediately excited when I saw the thumbnail for the video. Skall talking about arm blades and Bloodrayne in the thumbnail? Oh hell yes!
Spoke a little bit about the pros and cons of arms blades and how they could be used in combat. That was good. But sadly no thoughts or impressions of Rayne’s twin arm blades, I was hoping for that. In my opinion hers are the most effective and best designed for arm blades.
Still liked the video a lot and the discussion about the topic.
im my opinion, it should be much more comfortably wieldable to turn the blade by 90° around your arm axis, so, like wolverines claws, but a single, straight, double-edged one. that would allow for much nicer angles to cut.
additionally, i would strap it rather to the hand and have a reinforced, but flexible elongation to the lower arm, to allow for just a small amount of wrist movement, especially turning it around the arm axis or turning your hand to the inside sligthly should be pretty nice
Not only better angles but more efficient use of shoulder and arm muscles. That way a cut from the right side could be viable, like throwing a hook
@@thelegendaryklobb2879 absolutely
the way I see it, arm blades aren't a weapon meant to fight with, but a weapon meant to kill, like to just throw a finishing blow and kill the opponent with one strike to caught him off guard or before he can react
Wildly protruding blades aren't sneaky. So only usable when fighting is expected like duel or battle.
Great episode!
I'm actually in the process of writing a fictional martial art in a science fiction setting which primarily use arm blades kind of like those from Blood Rayne, and this video was both really helpful with the overall fighting style, as well as providing ideas revolving around spiked shields. I'm glad I found this video, because this is a very helpful resource.
Predator says it’s good, imma say it’s good!
Shady Man wants to sell me weird weapons, legally of course, i dont see the problem there
Awesome video as always Skall! While watching this, two people come to mind -
Götz von Berlichingen, also known as Götz of the Iron Hand, was a German Imperial Knight, mercenary, and poet. His right hand was lost and replaced with a prosthetic that he mainly used to hold his shield or the reigns of his horse while in combat, favoring his left hand for his sword - which must have worked out extremely well seeing that he had a long military career (around 40 years or so.)
The other person is, unfortunately nameless, but he's known as the Italian Knife-Hand Warrior. He died sometime around the 6th Century, and had been buried with a knife, but with some metal attached to it. It was discovered that he had severe blunt force trauma on his forearm, and he had a replaced it with a knife strapped on the end of it - they also found that he had extensive wear on his right molars, possibly from tightening/adjusting the straps.
The spiked forearm shield idea was also used for the Uruk-hai shields in the LotR movies. They're basically horizontally strapped heater shields with two wide spikes to both corners of the front edge. Combined with the machete-like heavy swords they carried, those made for a brutal and effective choice of equipment.
Arm blades seem to work perfectly for Baraka.
He’s a superhuman monster creature, he doesn’t count
@@-Extra_Lives No way. Baraka totally counts.
What about the Scottish arm sheld with a spike sticking out. That's the only thing I can think of
My immediate though when you mentioned being able to hold things while wearing this weapon was using it as an off hand parry weapon while using a medium length spear or pole arm. Preferably something you could use one handed though.
The last concept is what I use and I must say it feels so good using it, it's just so much more natural to use for the human body, specially if you are trained in any kind of martial art
I know that history has very few examples of "offensive armor" (cutting/stabbing thing on armor), but if you were allowed to design something, what would you personally do?
I'm counting bear claws, tigerclaws or simalar in this (e.g. the Japanese shuko, "wolverine claws" [both Shinobi gear] and both the indian in hand or around the hand designs); they're meant to protect the hand plus be used for knife range or grapple range attacks. I'm also okay with any swordbreaker- like ideas (hooked vambrace, like batman's) but do explain how there attached and how you dont tear up or get hooked on everything when not in use.
combine katar and shortsword in a single grip, attach it to to the griping part of the shield and now you have a ready for use sidearm. you can strap it onto place with leather strips or some iron pieces, the later is more durable but also either harder to detach or way too easy.
@@anzol4523 kattar was actual used in that fashion .
A good consideration for these kinds of weapons or offensive armor is "can I wipe my ass while wearing them". If no, they have to be able to be put on and off easily to be of any real use. :)
I think the reason for the lack of such offensiv armor is that it would make it more complicated to move without hurting someone or something that wasn‘t actually your target.
@@daedalus5253 You also have to consider that in a fighting scenario things can go wrong and you may fall over or end up in other situations where you haven't full control about your movement. In such a situation you don't want to have pointy and/or sharp stuff at your armour which may end up in your body.
A katar for example may come in extremely unhandy if you trip and it restricts your handmovement and by that your ability to evade the fall.
Arm Blades in games: cool badass assassin to hack n slash demons.
Arm Blades in real life: how to not get a girlfriend in 50 billion years straight.
Or Nazis as in the case of the game Blood Rayne, never played any of the games, which is the first thing that came to mind.
Speaking of which, I not knowing better made the mistake of watching the movie based on it. The fact it was directed by the infamous Uwe Boll makes it sting worse now than it did then.
My girl personally loves blades. I’m lucky we are engaged!
For home life, unstrap it once you close the door.
@@johndododoe1411 In my experience, strap-ons are quite a good thing for home life
@@gearandalthefirst7027 Depends if it's a blade or a "personal entertainment device".
Strongly reminds me of the Mai Sok. No blade but blunt force but still a shield and a weapon at the same time. Used it at a Dog Brothers Gathering after I visited a workshop for it. Really intuitive and usable.
5:55 That, but with both hands. LOL
Duel wielding shields in Darksouls is fun.
Hey Skal! Shad from Shadiversity in his "Unappreciated historical weapons" has taken a look at both the sword gauntlet and the tipped shield which he referred to as a "spiked pavise". I think he came to a lot of the same conclusions you did.
I was just thinking the same thing. Nice to know they came to the same conclusions. 😊
18:30 Captain America's Wakanda Shields in Infinity War anyone? That's literally it
My first thought as well. I was geeking out hard in the theatre seeing dual shielding on the big screen.
More angles and corners arguably make it easier for your opponent to bind your shield, I would presume. Which is largely why, I suspect, the good old round shield design is so prevalent.
Great video, as per usual!
That last spiked arm shield has basically been my fantasy weapon of choice. I imagined duel wielding either two of these or one and a buckler for better defense...so glad to see you touched upon it. I envisioned an arm shield with either a spike or short dagger, and an armoured gauntlet attached for protection. Another alternative idea I had was the cheesy double, side by side, blade, more designed for catching a sword strike and holding it whilst the other hand punches with blade/spike. This would require very good hand-eye coordination, and a very durable in-between where the swords impact would land, but nonetheless, another fun idea.
what if instead of a straight double edged dagger attached to the fist, it was something like a sword breaker on the back of the hand or wrist? More of an attached parrying mechanism than a dedicated weapon
Oh yes, that Bloodrayne thumbnail will certainly attract a lot of clicks!
18:32 not a meme anymore!
I really need a game where I can dual weild those front spiked shields!
I like Skal because he always has a ton of really good insight to things that often seem obvious, but only after he's already explained it.
My thought as to why they may not have been more common is that they were simply larger, bulkier, heavier, and they may get in the way of combat: Skal showed one possible joint lock.
Wrist blades and spiked Shields are honestly two of my favourite concepts
When I see the scissor, the main thing that comes to mind, is that arm wrap. The design makes me thing it might be more effective against an animal then a person.
Like 5 or 6 years ago I had a character on a tabletop roleplaying game that dual wielded shields. One gigantic piece of stone to bash things with and one smaller one with spikes, very similar to that you showed that was a circle. It was majestic and now I kinda want to play that again
Don't have much to say, or contribute, other than it was a fascinating listen, brilliant stuff.
honestly, this reminds me of something I saw in a demonstration of an old indie game (like the only thing I saw of this game was an E3 presentation and then it just disappeared) where one weapon we could unlock was a shield that splits in half and forms 2 arm blades, but then can also be re-connected to from again full shield
rising cut is awesome when you do it from the side opposite to the hand you have the blade attached to!
other than that i agree.
Lindybeige had a very good point about not having a points on a shield. With the rounded edge there's always a point of contact
I am a DM for D&D, and I home-brewed (custom-made) rules for spiked shields, bladed shields, and dual-wielding shields in the early Naughties (around 2002). I came up with those just from thinking about what is physically possible based off my martial arts experience, physics, and sound logic. If this video had been available, with your expertise and research, not to mention higher Charisma than me, I could have saved myself a lot of arguments. Thank you for all of your work, but especially this one.
That being said, I am very much a fan of the spiked/bladed shield, wristblades in general, and the idea of dual-wielding one spiked shield and one bladed shield.
Side Note: I was surprised that you did not reference Baraka from Mortal Kombat 2, although the storage and source of his armblades are not too dissimilar from Wolverine and X-23, or the weapons from the Assassin's Creed series of games.