Lin Shidong illegal serve versus Timo Boll | WTT Singapore Smash 2024
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- čas přidán 15. 03. 2024
- Lin Shidong illegal serve versus Timo Boll | WTT Singapore Smash 2024
Is Lin Shidong's serve illegal?
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If You see Timo Boll , out of ALL people , losing his sh!t ....
you know something is wrong .
Indeed
What do you mean?
@@MrFreezebook21 Timo is an extremely calm and composed player, so he says, if Timo is losing his cool, that does mean something is wrong. Hope this helps
@@Hk-bd6gi thanks
@@MrFreezebook21 Timo Boll is known for great sportsmanship. He's a man of honour!
Ovtcharov tosses the ball along the entire width of the table for his FH serve, and it's all good. They should use a robot to perform the perfect serve followed by players jumping in to commence playing.
Dima does not hide it, because it is a tomahawk serve. Also Dima toss it hight enough that the drop trajectory relatively straight. The point is you need to make sure the opponent can see the ball. If you throw it backward, the ball tends to hide in your head or chest.
the high toss causes the angle to be fine
High toss. Flat hand. Not hidden. No rotation. It may look like a weird serve but everything is very clear to see. Dima is an amazing sample how to use serve to the fullest and still make it legal.
Dima gets called now and then for illegal serves.
@@daverbook haven’t seen it. Watched most of his matches in Bundesliga, Champions league, intl stage. Any exact example? Would be interested. Some players are famous for being called out for their service. LSD comes to mind. Lebrun brothers come to mind. Dima doesn’t really come to mind but I’d like to check an event where he was called out for it. Thanks in advance
It's not very common to see referees do what this referee did...As always, thank you very much for the accurate information
Very welcome
This has been going on for years. Kudos to Timo for complaining about it! If it was anyone else it wouldn't have been taken seriously. There are many other players that serve illegally. If you look at Ma Long he bends over during the toss so the ball falls behind his head. It's not during contact but it is hidden for a split second regardless. Even Lilly Zhang throws the ball backwards. So how will this ever get resolved? The serve rules need a major make over and either more clearly written or enforced.
@@user-ih4vy8ty5hyet the umpire never mentions it. Wonder why???
@@user-ih4vy8ty5h Yeah all the Chinese umpires accept bribes.
@@user-ih4vy8ty5h you are wrong, Timo throws the ball very vertical, maybe not very high, but high enough.
I just wonder who makes up these rules. There have been many rule changes in table tennis. Who are the priviledged to decide how table tennis is played? Maybe there are many players who are against these rules but the rules have been enforced on them
@@Dragondescendant the rules changed, but it did not solve the problem, it only made it more confusing, and now it is even more unfair, it turned out that it is not worth playing by the rules that no one enforces. May be only backhand serve should be allowed. Or time to use AI technology with camera behind the table.
Only a 5 min video? 😂 Thought it would be longer. Next do one with Wang and Jorgic also
If an otherwise relaxed seasoned pro player like Timo with experiences in China finally says something about the toss, umpires should start watching more carefully.
The trend with young Chinese players is going into the wrong direction. And it is not only illegal serves, also intentionally done tactical interruptions. I don’t want to see soccer like „fairness“ in our sport.
Well, why didn't say something about it when he was winning. Has any Chinese player complained about another Chinese doing illegal serves? I guess they've figured out how the Chinese have been winning the last 24 years; illegal serves.
@@PianistsRavelNo they havent, its just not in their culture to complain. Accept and obey otherwise you lose your face and cant play competitive anymore. Your welcome for the Captain Obvious explanation.
I remember a provincial player in the chinese national games in 2021 ? started serving very illegally. Officials did not call anything, despite the other player screaming about it. Turns out the official had never played the sport (or so I heard)!
I notice that Lin used this dirty trick (the second time) just right after his timeout. I wonder what his coach told him in the timeout.
Still young and have learned to play dirty already. 😙
Thanks for doing a video on this 🙏
No problem 👍
To avoid controversies with forehand services. They should change the rules and make forehand serves to be served from the forehand side.this would eliminate shielding the ball with arm and shoulder
wtt's and ittf's lax attitude about rules trickles down to national and local TT organisations. Why even have a rule you don't plan on enforcing?
It is hard to enforce as the rule is vague. All serves, including those high toss ones, are up to interpretation as to whether they are vertical. Of course, some are more vertical than the others, but which ones are illegal is up to the umpires.
The most decent and most respectable down to earth Timo is a complete player his personality and such a humble soul not only lin but Wang has gotten away time and time and time he serves with his hand right over the table and puts his body right on top which is the perfect to hide and barely seeing what , is coming I just admit that I don't no in what world we living in and what, umpires don't see it's ceze how they don't see it but they actually do serves is one most the most effective things during, match so if the serve is good or hidden good we all no what the result will be
You should make your service hand invisible to avoid people saying you hide a ball
Wang Chuqin is a master in hiding the ball
they need officials behind the receiver!
Camera technology would be best, if it is possible. I think a camera system could at least pick up when the ball isn't being tossed straight.
They need a frickin replay
At a certain level, it is possible to consider this option but the problem is not only technical in that case, because it would need to change the rules if we add 1 or 2 more people in the monitoring of the game
Hey Emrat! Regarts from Reddit. You almost quoted my post.
yes. credit to @aldaron. thank you
This only can be solved with technology, what is doing the ITTF about?
With available camera technology nowadays applying them on all major events by ITTF. Just like ground Tennis 🎾.
Please make a rule enforceable. If a rule cannot be enforced by referees, it is a bad rule, bad for this sports. It is fairly easy to judge someone’s vertical or not if his body stays stationary during his toss. However, for Lin’s serve, his body is in horizontal motion during his toss, it is impossible to judge whether his serve is vertical or not. As others comment that no one can throw balls perfectly vertical, then the question is how much angle would you allow. This becomes pure subjective. I don’t like Timo complained to the judge during the game. His invitation for referee’s involvement indeed gave him advantages in this match. He should be given a yellow card.
No
@@GeneralTerzXspot on
I wish they used some technology for this. Hawk-Eye works well in other sports, it isn't 100% accurate but it takes out the subjectivity.
Timo is the GOAT
wrong but he is one of the best. definitely not even close to greatest of all time though.
@@bryanwells4063 aha and you are a towel buddy
at 0:38 you get a good angle to judge if the service is correct or not and tbh, the serve is totaly legal, timo is placed in a way where he can't see the serve but have the full table in his forehand, he should place at the middle of the table to have a better look at the serve.
So many illegal situations last few days, people is forgetting the rules
just forget the rules. Many of them are nonsense
@@Dragondescendant I think so too
"The serve must be visible throughout the entire serve from the toss to the contact". I can tell you if this rule were really to be taken seriously ALL.. I repeat ALLLLL players, regardless of nation and rank will be faulted. Most players toss would be hidden behind the head at some point during the serve. They may not hide the contact, but many players, Ma Long, Qiu Dang, Hugo all hide their service behind the head at some point during the toss.
Maybe not All, but definetely most of them. That's why i like and respect Vladimir Samsonov. Look at his serves. Timo Boll is also very fair, he doesn't throw very, high, but just high enough to required 16cm.
Nice video! Did you practice your english? It sounds way better and smoother than i remember. Good job.
I think he uses an AI voice, shame I didn't mind his real voice.
wow u speak much better english than before, nice!
Non-vertical toss is not so much of a problem really, it's the hidden contact point that cause problem. Based on Timo's receive, it's clear that Timo misjudged the spin (he thought it's underspin but it's not), so that strong indication that Timo could not see the contact point. A non-vertical toss is not too much of a problem (Still illegal!) as long as the contact point is visible.
non vertical toss is what makes hiding the contact point way easier
玻尔发球有两项犯规。一是球在没有完全伸平的手掌上抛起。二是很多球抛球离开手的高度不到十六公分。如果我们拘泥于这些规则，那乒乓球就别比了。比较明显的发球违例是巴西的那个，手臂有意遮挡。日本的张本智和在比分落后时的发球也有手臂遮挡，领先时则放开遮挡。希望视频主能放一放玻尔，巴西和张本的发球视频。
Unpopular opinion: wtt and ittf has not fix this for decades
its time for table tennis to allow two service fault referrals to the players and such must be checked with camera angles installed at all side-lines.
What about Wang Chuqin?
Actually Singapore's referee have done it well with foul services to call Kao, Wang manyu, Lin yun ju a warning or penalties for illegal serve. But Wang haven't been called illegal serve or his opponents. Nothing to be arguing about
Wang is clean by every single referee so far. Probably have to change the current service rule to call him foul.
@@ditml6796 maybe you can apply for WTT and making a rule that every Wang 's serve is illegal at your will
@@MrFreezebook21 you got me wrong, my point is Wang's serve is clean by rule whereas Wang's haters always think umpires don't know the rules.
@@ditml6796 sorry for my misunderstanding, I said it to Wang's haters
BIG like for this video
I think we need extra refree that focus on looking the serve legal or not..
Xu xin was the master of hidden service
i guess the rules were invented then to stop him.
@@Dragondescendant I think because of Liu Guoliang
If you can get your opponent bent out of shape by serving illegally, a lot of players see that as worth the warning or loss of a point. It takes the human brain several minutes to calm down once it get riled up with adrenaline.
The throw isnt the issue... if so, Ovtcharov's serves would be ilegal everytime.
The reality is... If players were forced to adhere to the actual service rules the ranking charts would look different.
Lin Shidong is a super player! He is the future of Chinese table tennis. He has already beaten all the table tennis stars!!!!
These players are role models for young players. When they cheat, you create a sport where everyone cheats in order to look like a pro.
Whether the serving toss was blocked or not, it has to be judging based upon the specific position of the receiver. So far in these video footages you brought up, there is no obvious evidence to demonstrate what claimed as illegal blockage during the servings.
hands down illegal
no it was legal until someone invented these rules
Wang Chuqin same camouflage
Great video..
But how can you explain in a more simple way...?
Simple .. just look at his hand in the middle of the table(whe every (illegal) player start to serve), throwing ball and then ball land in his extreme corner of the table ... Hellooooo????
when you have your palm with ball in the middle of the table, and you hit the ball in your extreme corner...this is ILLEGAL serve. Simple..No need to cover, or hide the ball, or contacting point.
There is no rule on the horizontal toss of the ball on the serve.
Emmanuel Lebesson is the worst The ball literally starts at mid table and comes off of the end of the table before his toss.
Thats cuz he moves his hand back before He tosses the ball up. Very different than throwing the ball into oneself. His toss is actually pretty vertical. Now im not saying He doesnt have a questionable serve, the height of his toss might be incorrect. But youre badly generalizing and comparing
Don't get misleaded by this video!! do some research yourself!! LSD didn't serve one right doesnt mean all young Chinese players try to hide the ball while serving! That's a classic hook serve problem. Hook serve is running on the edge between legal and illegal!! AND it is a popular, entertainable and useful serve in the recent years!! If you dont know, you might not really play or know ping pong..
Yeah, on hook serves if you don't use that involvement of the body to create spin it would be a a far less effective serve. Also, one of the main technical keys for an effective serve is to keep the ball as close to the body as possible for better control.
Are you just taking every reddit comment from r/tabletennis and read it out?
Congratulations tim boll❤😂🎉😅😘😍😎🤣🙄👩❤️👩👨👩👦👦💖💞💗💟💭🗯💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨
Timo knows more than the ref
Rude? That‘s not rude. It‘s a good serve. For sure you can‘t see it very good, but that‘s why it is a good serve. Of course you should throw the ball straight but come on, Lin Shidong is just a little boy.
Trying to win games by cheating shows the player's lack of confidence and skill, and spirit of game. Those who employ illegal tactics should be warned severely,.
Only Samsonov comes into mind when talking about legal services at pro level.
This is illegal on todays rules because the ball is hidden on the side of the face not direct. It’s illegal
Desperate players do desperate serves.
Tonsolve this probelm, use AI machine to serve then player fight.
This kind of rules make Ping-pong more boring
This type of serve is well-known during the timw J waldner.
Ilegal
Actually, there is HONESTLY no way to really throw vertically. Every throw has to have some degree of non vertical displacement. There is NO player that can throw vertically perfectly.
The question is wether an advantage is gained. The toss of Lin Shidong serves no other purpose than to increase the spin on the hook motion. Dimitrij Ovtcharov tosses the ball backwards too, but he tosses high and gains no advantage.
@@beredan8321 whether a player want to hit with purpose or not is up to the player. whether a player want to hit with spin or not is up to the player.
While in reality no serve will be perfectly vertical, I believe the rules state that the throw needs to be over 30degrees to be considered nonvertical
You've never watched Vladimir Samsonov then. Totally vertical toss every time.
yep true@@ansman5062
Thats the secret to cnt success. TT is one pathetic sport. Empire can't serve n they be judge. What a joke. Sigh
Who makes up such rules anyways? Probably the losers that dont how to deal with such a serve.
When Timo started table tennis hiding serves was allowed and was very normal. Now rules have changed and he had to change too. It it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It also doesn't matter if you like the plastic ball or not. It's the current way the sport works and it's subject to change - but everybody has to comply. You are free to invent your own sport.
@@GeneralTerzX well i believe many rules were invented to stop the chinese dominance. Sports should be fair and rules should not be invented to stop a certain party
@Dragondescendant 'Many' rules? What rules? China is now more dominant than in the era of Waldner et al when hiding serves was allowed. I don't agree with your statement.
@@GeneralTerzX because china is now more developed. During the times of walder many chinese children couldnt even afford to buy a racket
@Dragondescendant Ok, now they can and have more funding and support for the sport than anywhere else in the world. I can't see where China is supposedly being handicapped. Please be careful with statements like these that you can't back up. Thanks.
Cheat then lose