My new massive 1000+ track template - part 1!
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2022
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I've been busy making a new master template - over 1000 tracks - in this part we look at routing / stemming and the orchestral sections.
Here is the link to the articulation maps: www.babylonwaves.com/ - Hudba
Thank you Paul. Can't wait for part 2! :)
Timing is perfect, spend the last 24 hours trying to tweak my template and experiencing the same issue with track stacks. Thank You.
Thank you for sharing, Paul. You were right, that it’s helpful to look over your shoulder while you work.
Thanks Andrew!
Thank you so much for this. Once I am able to rebuild my setup, you have given me quite a few great ideas.
Great to hear!
Good Job as always Bro, appreciate you
Thank you so much for the uploads Paul, I really appreciate your work.
Continue doing these, as many people should see this.
Would love to see a guide on how you did the track "Bredon Dusk", was it Chamber or Symphonic Strings?
absolutely lovely, Thanks.
Great video! I recently finished making templates for all the Albion libraries! The information contained here will be of great help when I eventually tweak the templates in the future.
Hi Paul, Great video! I have a suggestion to speed up the muting of send auxes and unmuting the print tracks. In fact, you'll no longer have to do this. Make an extra set of send auxes that will double the path from the sends to print tracks. Direct the send to the new aux and set that to no output. Then send that new aux to the print track. The send will now be out of the output path but will be present at the print track. You can hide these new aux tracks because once they're set you won't have to see them again. Now all you have to do is click/unclick either the input monitoring button or record button on the print track to toggle between live and recorded. PM me for a JPG. Cheers, Robert
Great video, Paul! It's inspired me to rethink my own template a bit. I'm still using summing stacks instead of folder stacks, and I have only one reverb sending to a bus across all the tracks in the template. But I think I might try adding separate reverbs on separate busses for all the different stacks organised by instrument categories. I don't have stem print tracks in my template, though. I actually find it more convenient to just select one stack and then press the command key and select the rest of them and bounce them out that way. The only downside to this is that those tracks don't have the aux sends printed on them. I then go into the mixer and solo the reverb aux and bounce it out separately. I know it's a bit long winded, but this has worked for me till now. But I think I'll incorporate a few of the concepts that you've shown in this video in my template for sure. Cheers!
Thanks Susmit - I think once you start bouncing all of your stems at the same time you’ll save literally hours!
Thank you Poul!
Paul, great video! I solved the 'summing stack' problem, had the same experience which is indeed very annoying! You can load a plugin (Kontakt with samples) but switch it off or mute it. They will now not load when you select the summing stack folder.
To be extra save you can also switch a track to 'on or off' too , this is not the same as muting it. Go to 'configure track header' and tick the on/off box to make this option visible.
Thanks Renger - nice tip! For people who need to use summing stacks this is very useful. Although its a little faster the way I've got it set up now as I don't need to switch any tracks on, just click on them and play.
yes! thats the way to go :-)
Hello Paul, thanks for the video is a great learning experience. I may have some ideas that can be helpful to improve your workflow. To control all the reverbs at the same time, especially in a situation where they are located in several part of the template, you can find helpful to create a VCA fader (Master Reverb). It will allow you to control the general volume of the reverb, mute, and solo it. At 9:17 you are selecting all the tracks and applying the same amount of send. A quick alternative is to Group the track and in the group settings section of the inspector you deselect everything and activate " send 1". In this way you will be able to control the send of all the tracks from one single one without selecting all the tracks every time. I hope this is helpful.
Thanks Julian - that groups tip is now in practice!
@@PaulThomsonMusic I'm glad I was able to help!
Hey Julian! This is a nice tip. Thanks.... I'll try this out for sure!
@@limayesus Happy to help!
Brilliant work Paul, many thanks for sharing. Loading of summing stacks is a pain for sure, I like this alternative. One question, do you intend to have any processing plugins such as EQ or Compression pre loaded as you like them or, do you tend to leave that to the mix engineer?
Thanks Paul! This is very helpful. I will use these concepts to make my template better. I observe most composers don't use articulation key switches or maps and favor separating longs and shorts. I'm assuming that's because of the varying predelay and reverb amounts. I prefer keeping everything with the lowest tightness setting; however, it's hard to play in parts. Any tips on keeping tightness high for sketching, and then automatically setting the predelays and tightness with a macro? I need the ability to have 100% tightness for playing, then press a button and all the tightness levels are at 0% and the predelays set for each articulation. Or is there a better way? I'll have to research the articulation sets function in Logic and find the equivalent in Cubase.
i am the whole month in template/work flow subject. Nice to see the video. I think youtubers have fear to dive deep into the problems of template after we have so new features , and consequently , new confusion about what is the mist efficient work flow long term and for demanding music.
Thanks! Yes its complex!
Love the lighting and image quality, can you share your setup perhaps? Thanks...
Thanks Mark! I will do - great idea for a future video.
Paul - great video, thank you for sharing! How do you manage track visibility across this template, especially when you have bits from the various different folders in the cue? I didn't see any group assignments where you could then hide / show specific groups only? Cheers!
Good question - so I can see when I collapse the folder if there is midi in there - beyond that I've just made sure the individual folders don't have too much stuff in, so there's never a huge amount of scrolling to do as long as I'm tidy!
Really interesting to see how other people make their templates and organise them. I like this print all stems at once concept, but does it require plenty of CPU as you will need multiple reverbs and other FX (one for each stem)? Also, I am used to using global reverbs so if I want to change the reverb it's easy as only one plugin - how do you manage it when you want to change all the reverbs at once?
And...do you really only have exclusively Spitfire libraries in your template or are you hiding tracks?! Haha!
This is over my head right now but when I get logic and spitfire this will be useful.
Thanks MJ!
Damn , this is awesomeness . I use FL studio . Any chance to make templates for FL studio ??
Amazing - it must take hours of work to set this up, if not days! It took me about three hours just to set up a full Abbey Road One template!
Thanks Jim! Yes - days and days of work - although working around all of my other work so probably would have taken about 3 days total if I'd just been on this solid.
Babylon Waves rules! Their script for Kontakt is amazing - I am using ALL of the articulations in one patch with easy switching
Yes very useful indeed!
@@PaulThomsonMusic But I also made my own articulation sets, because I’m using second small midi keyboard just for keyswitching. All my articulations now starts from C-2 and goes up, and I’m switching the articulations via my second keyboard. So these keyswitches never merge with my staring notes of the instruments - and all of my instruments notes start from ranges C-0/C1 and goes up, so I don’t need to scroll my midi-keyboard for searching the starting notes - it’s also very very useful 👌🏻
Hey Paul. Nice and neat setup! Love the Bricasti clone for Liquidsonics! Sounds awesome... How do you do it with processing stems, so that the fx get printed? And did you notice some issues with graphics performance with a 1000 tracks, especially when zooming in and out?
Thanks Urs! I have each 'stem's fx within the stem, so that it only gets printed to that stem. means you need more reverbs, but it massively streamlines the workflow. No graphic issues so far!
Terrific video Paul. Thanks for sharing. A quick question - although I understand the principle of different reverbs for longs and shorts, what happens in the real world as orchestras don't record or play long and short notes separately when they are part of the same piece? How does the mix engineer treat them when they are on the same track?
Along with most others I would think my template has some similarities and some differences. 9 summing stacks form my base template - the usual suspects of orchestral sections, non-orchestral and choral/voice but then have all my other alternate instruments in an 'additional libraries' folder, containing organised folders within that. That way all the instruments/libraries are available when required and can be dragged into whichever summing stack I choose or indeed left where they are if I'm not printing stems. The 'additional libraries' folder can be opened and closed as required and that helps keep things neat and tidy. Looking forward to part 2!
Thanks Chris! very interesting workflow - I like that concept. On the real world thing - I think our ears are more adapted to the way the section will fade at the end of phrases, the problem with samples - you want the musicians to play with musicality so you shouldn't tell them 'make sure you play absolutely solid 'sausage waveform' so we get a nice solid RT' - and therefore theres a slight shape out, and the RT is too quiet. Its the conundrum! So I guess what we are doing in sample land is just matching the RT you get in real life - at least thats how I rationalise it!!
@@PaulThomsonMusic Thanks, that makes sense. Also heartily endorse Art Conductor articulation sets. They are awesome.
Great Paul.
In this template did do you have two master reverbs or one that you automate?
Hi Jeremiah - every stem has its own reverbs.
Hello, Paul! (if you're not the paul im looking for, i deeply apologize) Im a begining musician, and i really enjoyed the one song you made for the Pirates Pack in LBP1 "The End Is Nigh" and i wanted to ask what instruments you used for the song, because i really wanna make some intense pirate-sounding music sometime in the future
That is indeed me…! So orchestra - lots of trumpets, solo violin, organ, big epic strings - thanks for the kind words!! This brings back memories!
Very interesting Template. I wonder if you get any latency using so many buses in Logic. Good point about templates and track stacks “geting in the way”. I think that TS are great fro multitrack instruments. I use track folders as well in my template. But the latency is a big issue for me sometimes. I use the latest macpro M1 max with 64 Gb of Ram . Are your libraries holded in SSD drives ? I still use my external 8tb HD usb3. It works well but sometimes takes time to load things. I love spitfire libraries…freat products for today’s composers. Congratulations.
Thank you Tomás! No the busses don't add any latency - I am careful about how 'deep' I go with plugins while I'm still playing in parts that are mainly rhythmic or groove based. If I stack up 3-4 'character' plugins on a track to get the sound and feel good on that part, I might inadvertently increase the overall latency of the whole session (yes you can use 'low latency mode' but that sometimes messes up the sound) - so beware of that - but these busses are pretty efficient. as they are a single 'layer' of processing.
@@PaulThomsonMusic you mention that “ the busses in your template are pretty efficient because they use a single layer of processing” can you elaborate this a little please? i can ´t see what you mean. Also just comment that i see more and more people doing their own templates all do is not a simple task. Myself I spent the last month builiding my own T using a mix of instruments including BBC SO in it. As i mentioned before i am having some issues with it in partnit may be because i have the latest macbook running Monterey and not all the plugins sre updated to apple Silicon jet. Also i refuse to use Rosetta in part because the BBC SO runs beautifully well in apple Silicon Logic. Wouldn’t be a good idea to have a way to share and compare our templates to be able to learn and be more efficient with them? Maybe create a users template forum or something similar for a start could be fun don ´t you think?
There's one thing I'm curious about and that's why you go with print tracks instead of just soloing the stems and bouncing them out? Is it just a time saver or are there other reasons? And how does this effect the CPU when the arrangement is getting huge? Really happy I decided to go with folder stacks in the updated template I did earlier this week. For some reason I wanted to go the "old chool" way and group everything to dedicated buses instead. =) Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome! Yes I print tracks as I can do it in real time and print every stem simultaneously (real time necessary if you are using any external hardware sends/returns) - CPU is good so far even with large arrangements - but I'm sure I'll hit a wall at some point!
@@PaulThomsonMusic Thanks for the reply! Think I need to try setting up some print tracks then even though I never mix or produce with external hardware. Time savers are always welcome! Looking forward to part two! /Johan
Hello, I would like to know if it is possible to buy this Logic pro template and how I should do it, thank you very much.
Do you print your stems in realtime, utilize track freeze, or some other method?
Print in real time - so I can use outboard
Paul - I noticed that I did not see any 'track delay' settings on any of the individual tracks in your template. Would you please comment on the need (or the lack of need) for track delay when using Spitfire Audio libraries?
I don’t tend to use that - I like to play in live and do it by feel, I just play slightly ahead of the beat
@@PaulThomsonMusic Thanks for this reply. I was hoping this was what you were going to say. You (and/or Christian) have made the point more than once that orchestral musicians (e.g., cello/tuba players!) must often start well ahead of the beat, so that their main transients hit ON (or very close to) the beat. So they compensate... and I suppose that if they can learn to... we keyboardists should, also!
Paul, where can us Logic users download your template (even if we have to pay for it?)?
Good idea - I'll have to strip out the patches and art maps, but the main structure could still be useful.
@@PaulThomsonMusic That would be cool! If you get around to it. Thanks for considering!
@@PaulThomsonMusic What other company is this interactive and personal with their customers? "Sure, I'll work up a version of my template and toss it out there", not to mention the HUGE amount of time you and Christian spend making videos that are better info than paid courses. Incredible. This is why we love you guys.
@@JPDC624 facts! 🙌🏾
Paul I know you are super busy but can you make more videos about composition ? ( How to blend strings , correct orchestration , different harmonic movements etc etc ) Your videos are super helpful in that way.
Thanks!!!
Yes will do!
@@PaulThomsonMusic Thank you paul!!!
i saw that it says that hans zimmer strings has up to 21 dynamic layers. What exactly do you mean by this? I cant imagine there would be that many dynamic layers on a longs patch or something
Hi - yes thats right but thats on the Violins and Celli spiccato patches - not on the longs - your computer would blow up!
@@PaulThomsonMusic ahaha jesus, how can there be so many. That must be the most in a library of yours by a long shot. How many dynamic layers are in the longs and legatos?
Interesting that nothing is panned using just the default Spitfire orchestral panning when it was recorded and mix in Pro Tools
Thanks for sharing! dust yer stuff ;)
Hi Paul. From your main studio shot your monitor appears very far away from you (it’s out of shot). How do you pick up small text etc, at that distance. Are you using a very large monitor, or do you just have 20/20 vision?
"A Template is a thing that is always in a state of flux". Truer words have never been spoken, haha! I've been trying to make a short template overview for Instagram and I've been putting it off because 1) The template is always going through changes 2) It's impossible to make the overview short...even for Instagram!
Go for it! I waffle so much thats why these are so long lol!
@@PaulThomsonMusic An attempt shall be made.
Paul, what kind of system spec are you using for this?
Its a mac pro with 384GB ram - so it is a pretty hardcore system, but you only load/use the patches you need, and the rest take a negligible amount of RAM. The same applies in Cubase where you can turn tracks off..
Zoinks!
I wish someone would come up with a way for Windows-based composers to do that Art Set trick.
on Cubase is similar
I bought bbc so the other day and downloaded the template. I thought, what’s going on here….activate/deactivate tracks? What is this magic! If only id known like 8 years ago.
21:18 Why do you got the same instrument so many times ? Because I CAN would be my answer but you're very polite :P
haha!! to a fault John!!
Whoa. I never thought I would have 50 tracks in a template. Then 100. Then 200...Then 300. LOL....
It keeps growing! I want Logic to open up to 2000 tracks next..
@@PaulThomsonMusic Whoa! They will. But only if you have the 2030 Mac. LOL
Thank you. Would you be willing to share it?
I'll look at stripping it out, as it has all of the articulation maps etc saved into it, plus there are some tracks in there that are things I've sampled myself so wouldn't make sense to another user! Leave that with me and I'll see if I can set the time aside !
@@PaulThomsonMusic Ah ok, it's fine! Thanks either way!
:)
I would feel the prisoner of such a template.
But, for my defence, I never liked big templates. I prefer to scroll thru my patches, then plugins and even presets in plugins, and do mistakes or click on the not intended one from time to time.
Or maybe I like to reinvent the wheel each time and my head is too scrambled to remember 1,000 tracks, even in subfolders! 😊
About the reverb on short and long notes: Yes it's "generaly" true but it deeply depends of the piece. Some short notes, when scarse and isolated, can sound realy great with a big "sploshy" (CH credits!) reverb, and some long ones can be drowned in big verb, loosing their articulations an movements.