The Correct Way To Do Parallel Compression
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- In which I talk about parallel compression: how to correctly implement a dry / wet mix knob if you're a developer; how to correctly assess compression on a send if you're a mix engineer.
0:00 Intro
0:24 The problem with parallel compression
2:29 Wet / Dry mix control: how to do it wrong
4:03 Wet / Dry mix control: how to do it right
5:18 Why I'm right and you're wrong
6:59 How to correctly judge compression on a send
Music: "Troll Bridge" by Dan Worrall
Bandcamp link:
dan-worrall.bandcamp.com/trac...
If you like this type of content and you want to see it more often, consider signing up for Channel Membership: / @danworrall
Or you can just buy me a coffee: ko-fi.com/danworrall - Jak na to + styl
The number of CZcams contributors who demonstrate a technique without loudness matching is astounding.
average AI mastering demo
The number of CZcams contributors who talk complete rubbish is astounding .... lol ;)
Sage Audio for example
It really gets on my nerves
seriously, I've even seen tons of producers "add saturation" and they are just adding gain in the completely linear portion of the transfer function. you literally only made it louder!
What blooms away is the information Dan holds back to enable us to absorb the point he is making.
I don't think most people comprehends the amount of information Dan is throwing out for free.
Dan’s making us all better at what we love to do. Appreciate you 4L
do you think he can make me a better lover?
@@insertanynameyouwant5311 Possibly, but you would have to supply the parts ...
@@insertanynameyouwant5311probably yes
Dan has this ability to make videos about complicated ideas that make me go “oh duh!” At the end of it. Thanks for all your hard work!
Nothing complicated here though. Just some "volume knob makes sound louder" and "correct gain staging makes sound equally loud".
Yep nothing complicated that people tend to mess up 90% of times when trying to explain, it's amazing the amount of bad advice out there or not bad but overly complicated
@@n1tr0sys09 It's not complicated at all. It is simply just something people don't think about because there is nothing "obviously wrong" in what they're doing to catch their attention.
It receives kind of the same attention as clouds in the sky; if I ask was your local cloud covering two days ago altocumulus or cirrostratus, you wouldn't be able to tell. It's just not something you pay attention to, if you even know the difference of those altogether.
@@anteshell 🥱
This is why I love Kotelnikov GE's implementation of output gainstages!!
Yessss Kotelnikov is cool, I wanna try it out after watching lots of Panorama Mastering videos
@@voinrima I have it, it is awesome. Kotelnikov is boss.
Yes, TDR gets this correct in general. Molot(ok) has separate makeup and output stages in the same way.
@@voinrimaSave yourself time and buy Kotelnikov GE, Molot GE, and SlickEQ GE when you can. Limiter 6 is also nice but not essential IMO. I've been a Tokyo Dawn Labs customer for coming on 10 years and they know how to do it.
U-he presswerk has a nice way of doing this with multiple ways to boost and match in parallel with a soft clipper at the out
This is why all our compressors have gain-matched dry/wet mix control.
If it’s implemented well, you can even LFO the dry/wet knob in time with the music, for a novel effect.
I think the reason this feature isn’t more widespread is that automatic gain-matching is itself hard.
We tested several popular compressors that include an automatic gain-matching function, and found that almost all of them don’t actually match RMS or LUFS to anywhere near +/-0.1dB. Not even +/-1dB. So clearly their dry/wet won’t be gain-neutral either.
(A notable exception was iZotope; their auto gain-matching is best-in-class, according to our benchmarks.)
Do you have more information on your benchmarks? Website or YT channel? TIA.
@@MichaelPohoreski sorry, nothing public at the current time. But if you come across other plugins that do this well, I'd love to add them to my list
@@ReflexAcoustics No worries. Thanks for taking the time to answer!
My guess would be that gain matching for dynamic processors is program dependent and thus varies during the course of a song or a show. Does your gain matching feature keep recalculating live? and the question then would be, is that something audio engineers would want under the hood: a parameter that keeps changing? This is even without entering the realm of perceived loudness (that, as Dan states here, is subjective) vs RMS or LUFS.
@@giovannispinotti Exactly - the make-up gain continually adjusts in a very subtle and inaudible way, to keep you at constant LUFS in vs. out (or at least within 0.1dB short-term and integrated, per our tests.) You wouldn't always want this, e.g. for controlling an unruly live singer. But for adding dynamics and glue, it's a faster workflow and it preserves the relative loudness of your chorus vs. verse.
Volume is an underrated topic in the mixing world I believe, it might sound very basic and straightforward at first but when you start to understand its role, you understand that it is the most powerful tool in the entire toolkit of a mixer.
That's why almost every tool a mix engineer has is just a volume control
EQ is just volume of select frequencies
Compression is just volume over time
Panning is just volume across space
It's simple, Dan speaks, I listen.
I watched exactly this video dan is referring to and when he brought up the transfer curve of an compressor in one of his recent vids and you could see the gain being boosted for lower thresholds i thought "it'd be interesting to hear what dan has to say about the video". Again, great timing dan! :)
"Honey wake up! New Dan Worrall video just dropped!" 🔥🔥🔥
Heh, I just said to my wife: "Sorry, honey, I gotta go to school now." before putting on the video.
So great content, what makes Dan videos so valuable to me is more the clarity he brings to concepts than what we actually learn. "People need to be reminded more than instructed"
was just binging dan worrall videos and suddenly this appears - love the content, amazing contributions to audio engineering education!
Thanks for welcoming me back! Great to be here!
Another simple explanation to an interesting topic.
Most useful channel for producers.
Thank you!
So glad you're back Dan! Thank you for all your knowledge-sharing.✌
PLEASE make a part 2!! Would love to hear your explanation of the attack and release times for different effects.
This is a video everyone in the YT audio community should watch. Understanding that loudness was tricking me was a huge unlock for my mixing journey.
I've been setting up a mix control for each compressor/distortion plugin (that needs it) in an Ableton effect rack and saving them as my default.
I highly recommend LetiMix GainMatch to find the output loudness difference in dB (it's realllly good at matching the perceived loudness), then decreasing the output gain in the plugin and play with the mix.
Thanks for the excellent explanation and examples. Having been taught to "mix with my ears", I've been judging the "sweet spot" to be at about 65-70 on the mix knob of some compressors without spending the time to figure out why. I also find that this is true for some saturation plugins - most likely for the same reason. BTW, I find this phenomenon especially frustrating with a certain (otherwise excellent) "black box" because of its multiple controllable parameters.
Reaper's per-plugin wet/dry knob is also pretty handy for this, but not quite as universal of an option.
wtf reaper has this feature? ....wow really have to put in the effort o learn reaper, but last time i tried my head explode
Reaper's per plug-in wet/dry knob does not do any volume matching at all. So it's not "pretty handy for this".
@ReductioAdAbsurdum it doesn't need to. If you set the plugin's gain correctly the mix knob will automatically be equal loudness.
@@ReductioAdAbsurdum still pretty damn handy
Alt + CLICK is what i mostly use the knob for. No other DAW has this.
What a brilliant video. Now that I've watched your explanation I realise I've been struggling with this without ever being able to properly distill out the problem. Luckily I tend to set up parallel compression on its own bus but I do occasionally reach for the dry/wet mix knob and often find myself fiddling with it and the makeup gain and iterating back and forth (before normally just giving up).
On a separate, but kind of related point, I also steer clear of SSL channel strips because the auto gain compensation on the compressor never works and there's no dedicated make up gain knob for just the compressor section. So if you switch the compressor section in and out to hear what it's doing then you can't avoid getting big level changes. I understand they are meant to replicate the desk but it's funny how none of the plugin developers think to sneak in a compressor gain compensation knob (or screw).
Another awesome vid. Thank you for being so clear about this usability issue. Really hope the developers will listen.
I’m just such a fan! Love your vids and your style! Have a good one, Dan!
Really appreciate this video, thank you so much.
I've designed several compressors at this point (as M4L devices under a name monomono) and I couldn't agree more on the correct implementation - that's exactly how I implemented it as well in my designs. So I will throw my unsolicited opinion in the mix. 😶🌫
The issue with output comes from a different reason it seems to me at least. Developers/designers are caught in a position when they are matching the hardware which also means matching the labels on the front panel for authenticity. And Makeup and Output mean completely different things in different context. I think the correct way to think about this is Makeup should only affect and be relevant to the compressed (wet) side of the signal path, while output means overall output of the plugin and will affect both. And depending on your signal path, the labels should reflect it. Whether you implement both is dependant on your goals, but as a designer you're caught in a loop where you either have to step away from exact copy of the panel, as hardware usually don't have both Makeup and Output, or stick to the original implementation for authenticity.
To your point about faders being your tools for level calibration: I agree, you probably should balance the track output with a fader (that's what I do as well), however if you have a level sensitive plugin after the compressor (for example Tape emulation), you might actually want an output dial as well as makup gain - depending on your mixing routine. You can use some sort of utility plugin in-between too, but it adds a bit of nuisance.
Mostly agree, except most of the classic hardware compressors didn't have mix knobs at all, so if you're already adding one you may as well get it right! And IMO any level sensitive plugins should have input gain or drive controls ;)
@@DanWorrall Absolutely, I'm completely with you on that. If you're already adapting older designs for modern mixing process, why not go all the way? And good point on the input dial.
1. Despite different words, “makeup” and “output” are precisely the same thing, post processing output level. Makeup is an ancient term from a time when auto compensation did not exist.
2. And, Dan didn’t say faders are for ‘calibration’ of any kind whatsoever. What he said was, with a bit of tongue in cheek, that the fader is where you mix.
You are way overcomplicating things. The compressor is as basic as a process gets and Dan does a great job bringing clarity to that. Your thesis on the topic will more likely confuse.
Input gain, threshold, ratio, knee shape, output gain. Up to four more controls dictate the shape of the gain cell’s response, which old school synth heads call ADSR. Some of our favorite hardware asks us if we want fast, slow or auto. In the best of them, you can bet they’ve spent years refining those time constants, and we should thank them for doing that for decades. Session time is too precious to spend it in the weeds.
Great Video Dan, and well explain !!!
In the analog domain, you also have the parallel addition compression (like the Maselec mastering console) where you dont work only with the blend tecnifique (great example in your video again) but also have the option of adding the parallel signal to the 100% dry signal.
In the digital domain also I like to use mono parallel compression to an Stereo MIX Buss Signal o Drum Buss Signal to add groove, puncho and body.
Yeah, I can answer your question for sure. When I started coding plugins I didn't initially notice that there's a difference between wet gain and output gain. but when I noticed there can be a difference, for the reasons that you also mentioned in your video, especially a/b compares, I immediatly put both wet and output gain into my plugin template. I even found a way to generalize it even more. Every plugin, that has nonlinearity in it, must have a wet gain knob. linear plugins are fine with just dry/wet and output gain or even just a dry- and wet output dualism in case the plugin is expected to be used less with the mind of a mixing engineer and more from the position of a musician. this last part, that you can change the i/o-settings to make the ux feel more musical is the part that some developers get too obsessed with sometimes. they just want their plugin to be on the musical side, so they refrain from wet gain on purpose. they fear beginners could be confused if a gain knob doesn't change the gain, just because drywetmix is turned down. they do not care about the advanced possibilities of this super simple to implement i/o control, they just want absolute beginners to feel a little better about it. every knob that is added to a GUI can potentially feel overwhelming to the user. so you gotta wonder which parameters to remove or hide when you tweak your plugin's ux or design. wet gain is often suffering from this prejudice that people wouldn't understand and appeciate it anyway
Thank you!! makeup gain applied after dry/wet mix is always infuriating, and I often don't have the patience to stick with a compressor that gets it wrong
I prefer the traditional way of using parallel compression on a bus and blending the two signals as opposed to using the dry/wet on the effect, then you can throw other things ( like a bit of EQ, saturation, whatever ) onto the bus too.
I just want to say thank you. You're really great, I appreciate you and just want to share my gratitude with ya. You've helped me a lot, and continue to do so✌
I’m locked in and dont even need pen and paper. Start to finish on any Dan Worrall tutorial is just useful, insightful knowledge i wont be forgetting 💪🙏
I’ve been tripping on this so hard whenever I use an aux for p-comp. Even just yesterday. Thank u
Great video, thanks for the lesson.
Great video. Thanks Dan.
A nice Ableton trick I like is to make an effects rack inside an effects rack. The inside effects rack has two chains, one with your dry signal and one with your compressor in it, then you can get the mix of the two right with the output gains of the chains then in the enclosing rack you can put a utility plugin which acts as a makeup gain, this way if you gain stage it properly you can bypass the enclosing rack to bypass your parallel compression and also mix the two signals however you see fit + level match your compression effect easily.
Love that in reaper; the fx window itself has its own wet/dry knob. Means it’ll always be at the very end of things.
Very interesting, as usual. Particularly interesting for the immediate applicability. I guess my takeaway, having come up on guitar pedal compression, is that I'd only apply parallel compression where I feel that the character of the compression is somehow lossy. Otherwise it seems like it just counterbalances the compression curve? Thanks Dan. Best, Daniel 🤙🏻
Good stuff. Loudness matching is essential.
Reaper has a nice Wet control I use all the time for blending processed and unprocessed. Kinda fixes this whole confusion.
I completely get the point and agree on the technical advantage. I'm just not entirely convinced, because often I use Parallel Compression because I WANT to ADD something. So if I feel my instrument needs a bit more weight in a certain part, I'll add it using automation on the Parallel Compression Aux channel as much as I feel it needs. So maybe it is a matter of use case and perspective.
Thanks Dan!
Interesting note to add is that some DAWs like Reaper (as you are using) have a dedicated wet/dry mix setting for every plugin regardless of what type or brand of plugin it is. I always just revert to using that instead. It works with any type of compressor plugin, even ones that have no makeup gain control and don't properly auto gain.
I don't know yet what you'll be saying in this one, but a new vid from you, hell yeah, made my day !
Hey Dan, love your channel, in this one you might have mentioned the Reaper work-around with the little mix knob in every fx window, so you can still do easy parallel compression with the Softube VCA compressor. In fact I never use the plug-in's mix knob, as I know Reaper's mix knob is always set up properly.
Dan setting the record straight. Essential viewing.
I love the example music, Dan.
Absolutely agree and thanks for this excellent video! It would be great if Softube would provide an option to customise the order of the output control. PSP Audioware offers this option. This would satisfy everyone and the plug-ins would remain compatible with existing projects.
Give this man a gold medal!
Best teacher on youtube no contest!
a few developers are finally using 2 different knobs for WET-DRY and even with a MUTE button on every one, that should be a new trend to follow IMHO. That said, I rarely use the "mix knobs" on the plugins as I usually like to parallel on a different fader and blend from the console, so I really appreciate Dan's trick here. Thank you Sir.
I always use the traditional send and blend method too. I don't feel the need to change this though, it's always worked great for me.
'fanboy trend-arcing"
Yes thank you! This issue is also on the fet comp mkii :/ I hope they adjust it.
I 100% agree with this. Some compressors have implemented parallel compression so wrong, it's like plugin developers don't even mix with their plugin one time. the REAcomp at least does away with a wet/dry knob and just gives you independent fader for the wet and a fader for the dry. It's stuff like this parallel compression quirk as well as filter cramping on "analog modeled" EQs that just drive me nuts
Bro thanks for existing
I love that tubetech compressor. I use the proprietary Rack Extension version for Reason (no reason other than I saw it there first).
Lovely bit of info to have regarding comps on a send (which i never do due to how my DAW's routing works).
Dan, when you're feeling better (and if you're interested), I'd love to hear your take on the Cenozoix Compressor from 3-Body.
I've got it, but it's a big job, especially as they apparently keep adding more features.
Thanks Dan, just commenting for the algorithm.
The API 2500+ hardware unit has a cool "blend" mix feature control for parallel comp
What do you think about the built in Reaper mix knob at the top of the plug-in window? I personally use it all the time.
i use the audio effect rack in ableton by default when i do parallel stuff because i kept getting annoyed with the dry wet knob not being right
thank you ❤
Wonderful 👍
here here, I totally agree on the mix knob stuff. Needs to be standardized. in console1 I think it functions better? I dunno I will have to try it
great vid
Would love to see the guitar chain for this guitar tone. Sounds really cool.
Hi, and welcome back
"why im right and you're wrong" you got me with that section title lol
You sound like Jim Cummings grew up and decided to become an audio engineer instead of the voice of Winnie the Pooh, and I am here for it.
You can do paralel compresion with the dry/wet knob of the fx of reaper. Since it is not a knob that belongs to the fx (it is of reaper), You can be sure that it's after they output of the compresor. I do it that way.
What Reaper skin do you use? The default one leaves something to be desired...
My buddy has a few of those TLA-100 units in his studio, didnt know there was a plugin
I have a habit of having most processing done on parallel chains (Ableton Live, Effects Racks) for each track when necessary.
Love the 60fps video, makes me see audio more clearly
It's a very European 50fps to be precise. Mostly because I know 50 always means 50 in my capture software and my editor. I never know if 60 actually means 60 or 59.whatever.
Thankyou for this, I know this topic has been discussed a fair bit but your explanation drives the point home.
On another note, is there any way I can buy that song? I really got into it.
Bandcamp link in the video description
dude this shits fire af
I’m guessing you saw Sage Audio’s video on this? Some interesting videos they put out for sure
why would I mix dry signal with wet on a parallel send in the first place? Would it be easier is to smash the signal on the parallel comp channel (or whatever the comp sound is) and blend in the parallel channel instead? I see dry wet useful only if applying parallel compression on individual channels where I want less compression effect, or this is how I see it!
I find it's best when dynamics plugins have all the: makeup gain, output level, and also input level controls.
Oh my god. Until seeing 0.45 I did not at all understand the sort of "knee based(?)" graph that so many compressors used! Christ I've always steered to clear of that view in Ableton's compressor, always using the input waveform with floating gain reduction view line instead. This is why labeling your axes is important lol
Hey Dan, just a question regarding this CL1B Comp... Don't you think ratios above 2:1 are too snappy on it? Like, it almost sounds like a hard knee feed-forward comp... And also fast attack settings distort a lot... 2nd order harmonic starts to poke too much...
Too snappy... You mean not like the hardware, or for your tastes? I think I've been mostly turning the ratio down so far... I agree it's hard to dial in, and potentially full of distortion, but that's part of why I like it.
@@DanWorrall I didn't try the hardware so i don't know... But it's an opto comp, shouldn't it be smooth? Maybe not...
@TransistorLSD opto comps can be quite snappy on the attack in my experience. I think the smoothness is mostly in the forgiving dual stage release.
@@DanWorrall The mk2 mode is weird on the Cl1b. It was the same when it was a standalone. The attack and release are very finnicky. Sounds more like a Dbx160. The mk1 mode sounds great though.
In Ableton I can create a wet/dry effects rack and load the softube vca compressor into it. Will this be effective to counter the problem Dan describes?
Yes
@@DanWorrall Thanks. I shall spend half an hour experimenting. I find your style so refreshing for yt
There's still something I don't understand (question open to anyone): I understand using the makeup gain, and then bypassing the compressor instead of muting/unmuting the return channel. But why turn the return channel down by the amount you turned the makeup gain up? Isn't the makeup gain pre-compensated for, so to speak, by the gain lost to the compression itself? The makeup gain isn't still in effect when the compressor is bypassed, is it? As far as I could tell, the level of the return channel didn't make any difference in the A/B testing (although of course it did to the overall level of the mix).
PS Thank you Dan, and best wishes.
Hi Dan, I’m enamoured with how your logo is response to the volume of your speech. Would you kindly offer some guidance as to how I might implement this for my website. I produce food products so it’s implementation is far removed from the audio scape. I’d be absolutely delighted if you’d point me in the right direction.
I'm afraid the answer might not help you, it's a weird and audio centric method. I used the Reaktor modular synth (Native Instruments) to create a spectrum analyser, with meter graphics derived from my logo. I then use my usual screen capture software to grab video of it, then mask off the plugin surrounds in my video editor. It's a very weird and clunky method, I don't recommend it unless you're a relatively advanced Reaktor builder and also clueless about graphics rendering, like me :)
Also, the dry/wet needs to come before a minimum-phase antialiasing filter when oversampling, otherwise moving the dry/wet knob causing HF comb filtering.
This video on parallel compression also got me thinking about Schoeps’ “Rear Bus” technique. He pretty much has bus compression on an aux send, and individually decides how much of each individual channel to send to it as well as how much to mix in overall (I’m pretty sure the benefit is it keeps that parallel bus compression from pumping the reverb as much, any reason about having more control over the compression doesn’t quite seem right to me). All that said, by design this technique suffers from the “more gain = sounds good” issue as mentioned here by Dan. I wonder if using that “rear bus” aux send instead as a sidechain input on a bunch of control-linked compressors on the individual tracks would let you properly dry/wet on this sort of effect? Might be worth trying, if you can set it up easily.
I’m pretty sure some compression and tape saturation plugins also have this sort of “bus” linking/sidechain thing going on. Maybe Presswerk? Not sure. Cheers, Dan!
You just need to do what I showed at the end of the video: set the makeup gain for the compressor so it properly compensates the gain reduction, then bypass it to compare. That will work no matter how many channels are feeding it.
@@DanWorrallYeah of course, my biggest uncertainty was workflow-wise, how best to set it up so you can quickly add a linked compressor to a new channel
I replied to one of the comments but it'll probably get lost, so i'll copy it here:
i also like Softube, but they kind of dissappoint lately, their newer compressors (including the Bus Compressor) also have weird default presets... In VCA, the Attack/Release default knob positions aren't in the "Normal" position, wich is supposed to be the accurate DBX160 values, + the default Drive knob position is something like 0.2 (why not 0 lol?), in Opto compressor, Emphasis knob by default is set to cut some lows out (why?), and also lower half of this knob doesn't change anything, so something's broken there... On the Bus Compressor, default Knee value is at 0, but it is a Bus Compressor, and it looks like an SSL, so why is it a Hard Knee by default?.. I could go on and on about it...
Just couldn’t help myself,
After watching Dans video, I suddenly came across a video from somebody who put FabFilter Pro Q and FabFilter Pro L in the B tier list! I’m lost in the void and maybe gazed into the abyss! Adios everybody!❤
Incredible that a company like Softube can mess up with a mix knob and a gain knob.
Hi Dan. I see you are using various plugins from various developers for your videos. Do you buy these plugins for video purposes or do you buy these for mixing purposes? If you are buying for mixing purposes, does these choices of plugins not overwhelm you while mixing? I'm buying plugins occasionally but the choices overwhelm me even before buying. How should we choose what to buy? If I buy one plugin then when I see another plugin, it feels like I have to buy that one too. When should we stop buying plugins? I think I need some help.
I used to buy plugins for mixing purposes, but increasingly developers are reaching out and giving me free licenses. Yes it gets overwhelming and I'm way beyond the stage where I have too many and it's actually detrimental! It's not really a problem most of the time: I have the plugins I actually use organised into favourites folders in Reaper so I can ignore the madness when I'm mixing. But it's very annoying if I need to load a plugin in my video editor (for example) and have to trawl through an unsorted list of everything :/
@@DanWorrall I read this in Dan Worrall's voice... so soothing
good point. me i’ve avoided this by only using stick plugins. or commit to effects going in. there’s no way plug-ins can make the music better- that’s the music’s role. i do need to branch out a tiny bit
* slowly * but yes 49 bowls of candy it’s gonna get sickening pretty quick. like streaming there’s just sooooo much music but so unnecessary to listen to more that 12 things most the time.
Guys, try out Voxengo Deft Compressor in Dual Mono mode - it's my new favourite parallel comp. And as always, wish Dan all the luck to beat Crohn's
By the way, Voxengo's mix knobs are always after output gain
Thanks for the tip. I've been using Tonebooster's comp 4 a lot lately, also a very good option.
I haven't tested this on Logic Compressor yet. Anyone know if they implemented the mix knob correctly?
would it not make sense to have a make up gain knob so you can drive the output to a level necessary for the next plug in in your chain to work correctly? A lot of the analogue modeled vsts have a sweet spot built in (i asked softube about this a few years ago) so the make up gain makes sense to me in this regard.
If a plugin genuinely has a 'sweet spot' it should also have an input gain or a drive control, right?
Also that reason makes no sense with regard to the Softube compressors as they all have that output panel anyway.
@@DanWorrall you would hope so yes
I didn't fully understand your last section there Dan about setting up parallel compression. May I ask if you (Or a fellow subscriber) could explain that again in more detail please?
Many thanks
Set your parallel compressor gain just as you would any other compressor, so there's no overall loudness change when you bypass. Then, rather than judge your parallel compression by muting the parallel channel, you judge it by bypassing the parallel compressor. The parallel channel will still provide the same loudness boost, but with no change to the dynamics, so you can hear the effect of the compression properly.
@@DanWorrall I get it - Many thanks Dan.
🔥
I kind of feel bad for the developer 😢 but it's good to highlight these things. Great video.
how can one know just merely from layout of digital knobs if output is after mix or before?
placement is going to represent the signal chain on say, logic stock plug-ins?
What? You cant just by looking. You cant do that with hardware either though. You test.
The layout doesn't mean anything. Set the mix knob fully dry: does the makeup gain affect it?
Would using Reaper’s built-in dry/wet knob be another good option or would that have a downside?
That's usually fine. If the plugin has any phase shift that might cause problems in parallel, then a built-in mix knob can potentially sidestep that issue. But my main reason to want one on the panel is because I find the Reaper one a bit small and fiddly to use.
@@DanWorrall Thanks for the reply Dan and for the video too! I hadn't thought about the possible phase shift. I fully agree it would be much much better to have the nice-sized one on the panel working the correct way. Thanks again 🙂
Lets go DW!! How are you feeling these days sir? Thank you for another lesson
Too early to call it really, still not started one of the new meds. Might be getting better, might be imagining it...
watched, but found incredibly challenging to listen to the voice aspect embedded in the music content. great info (upon lots of rewinds) but why the music at all? the sonics don’t really exemplify anything of the spoken material at least in a way that’s going to be legible.
Totally agree. Incredibly distracting soundtrack. WTF?
How does sage audio get so many views? I put the channel in my do not recomend list and his videos still pop of in my feed.
Moving the Output control pre dry/wet means that you have a much more difficult time gain staging into the plugin on that channel or you have to add a gain knob after comp and before next.
Or you could just turn up the drive in the next plugin. Honestly, what non linear plugins don't provide input gain or drive or similar?
Softube has a side panel with post dry/wet gain anyway.
Reaper users can also just use the dry/wet mix reaper adds in for all plugins
Could result in phase problems though
answer is simple: different devs/batch. They have this problem with harmonic distortion thing too, gain staging is a mess, has similar graphics to VCA
"The dirtier - the bettaaaaa!"
Miss the good old days where you get it compressed and commit. Then mix it with the original. And not forget to phase align to the best of ability.
Yessir
Yeah i noticed this about softube plugins, having to compensate for the volume difference using the dry/wet knob is annoying
It’s annoying that so many plugins don’t have dry/wet knobs these days. I’m so used to working with percentages now that I had to work out how to calculate how much I need to turn a wet signal down by to get a given percentage.
10log10(x/(1-x)) where x is your percentage. If you wanted 20% for example you’d put 10log10(0.2/(1-0.2)) which is roughly-6dB if the dry is at 0dB and they are level matched. Useful to compare compressors for parallel compression at the same level but of course using your ears might be a bit more practical