ZSR Lot 15 Powder Weight Results (SIX Guns Now Destroyed?)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- As you know, my M1A Socom was destroyed at the range while using ZSR ammo, 7.62x51, Lot 15.
As of this video, there is a possible SIX rifles that have been destroyed while using this ammo lot.
I decided to go out and purchase a bullet puller and grain scale. I pulled 13 random bullets from the large stash I have and weighed EVERYTHING. The results, are, well, interesting.
I am leaving it up to you - the viewer - and expert - to tell me what the heck is going on with this ammo.
/ galacticforcemedia
(ZSR and Battlehawk Armory still not accepting refunds or making a recall)
I have been reloading ammo for literally over 50 years. I can only say that it's pretty standard to hold tolerances to + or - .1 grain. Commercial loaders, who use volume measurements, might allow + or _ .5 grain. Those rounds are scary.
I agree. When I reload I consider a variance of .1 grain to be totally acceptable. I believe .5 grain variance would more than likely not cause problems. Up to 6 grains difference in powder charges between rounds in one box? No way. Total reject. No quality control. Unsafe in my book .
Agreed. One of the earlier reports on this was sayin 1.2 grains? of difference between loads which is way-out of nomal.
This is no minor amount to cause this pressure
4 grains off ain't gonna blow apart your gun. Stop being dramatic
That is sloppy manufacturing 30-43 grains is trash , Some weird powder blend there also .
Typically, powder is either spherical (ball shaped), extruded (tubular shaped) or flake. When you see tubular or flakes mixed in with ball powder I get worried because it appears there is powder contamination. It is possible the company is running different ammunition on the same equipment and not properly cleaning their powder dispenser. Different powders have different burn rates and pressure curves. One or two flakes might not make a difference, but when it comes to powder, we use micro adjustments to remain within tolerances.
I was thinking the same thing. There certainly seems to be some powder contamination present.
That can easily happen during hand loading if you are not observant , going from pistol powder to rifle powder
That's what I'm thinking too. A small amount of pistol powder in a light charge is almost guaranteed detonation.
@@jeffdwyer6105 I had different systems for pistol and rifle. It was hard to mix powders. Everything was cleaned and put away. Take a break for the night and start fresh the following day. This looked like mixed powders.
That's a very sound theory...... that ammo has all sorts in it and it wouldn't take much pistol powder to make serious over pressures, especially for self-shuckers...they don't handle excessive pressures at all well... opening the breech too soon would be one result, which is perhaps why some of those case heads were separated.
I am a reloader and it’s nothing but God’s grace that you guys that were firing your weapons and was using this ammo that you guys got nothing but mirror, injury, and damages to your firearms because it could’ve been catastrophic. I bought some primers from these guys and I’m literally calling them now trying to get my money back as a result of the videos that I’m that I seen you guys produce ,they are going to kill somebody. I literally want my money back after watching your videos they need to recall all of their ammo and their primers. I want my money back thank you young man for putting his videos out.from Sam- I- am
Thanks for watching! I’m hoping we spread awareness and whoever has this lot or ammo thinks twice.
Hope you get your money back!
Have a great weekend!
-Ant
Another thing. The if they had selected the proper powder burning rate the highest charge you weighed should have been just fine in the .308. I suspect they used the wrong powder with a faster burning rate to cause the rifle to blow up. Even the fastest powder recommendation I could find in my manuals showed a max load higher than 43 grains .
I was sitting here thinking what the flash holes looked like in the primer pockets. If it was too big, that can create some problems too.
Oh yeah, those primers are gonna really do it.
I still see ZSR primers for sale. I’m a reloader too, these videos have thankfully kept me from buying any ammo from ZSR, Turkey, or really anything made during Covid. Call me crazy but there is some dangerous stuff out there.
Reloader here. I think the most concerning thing I see is the different powder flake sizes. I know for a fact that quality powders have homogeneous makeup of extruded, ball or flake shaped granules but never mixed. The mixed granule geometry is very dangerous due to the varying burn rates. This often causes extreme overpressure loads. The large variation in charge weights is also indicative of poor quality control
A lot of people think this but it looks like a flattened ball powder to me. AA2230 (which is used for reloading 308) looks a lot like this. It has a large variance in ball size and large oblongs as well. It is also a double base powder which is what ZSR says their powder type is.
I've been reloading for about 15 years pulling the bullets in just two hits is not the scary part that's just neck tension. it's the powder it looks like it's mixed with other powders and the weights are inconsistent. Depending on powder 40gr for 308 is pretty normal. The company definitely needs to put out a statement
As a hand loader, I want my rounds within .1 grain, but I understand that when they mass produce ammo on these big automatic presses you will get bigger variances. I would expect plus or minus 1 whole grain maybe, but with ball powder, which is what that looked like, the variances you were seeing are pretty crazy! Also, it could be pistol powder which would definitely produce over pressure. Hopefully the ammo producer, or the importers will address this issue, and recall it. ZSR DEFINITELY needs to put out a statement!
Im a hand loader as well. And I agree with you 100%
ya it does look like handgun powder but it's also the mix of small ball, big ball and the flakes cause a harder pack making an over pressurized round but the failure looks like a light load exploding
@@shorty808100 Looks like AA-2230 to me. That's a flattened ball powder with a large variance in the size of the ball powder and large oblongs. According to the Sierra reloading manual, the minimum safe charge for AA-2230 with a 147 grain projectile is 36 grains. The maximum safe charge is 44.3 grains. The lowest charge measured in this video was 30 grains, well below what the manual lists as being safe for AA-2230. I also don't think the damage to the rifle reflects having pistol instead of rifle powder. If there were pistol powder in the cartridge, it probably would have grenaded the gun like Kentucky Ballistics' 50 BMG. I suggest looking up AA-2230 in the National Center for Forensic Science database of powders. The photos of AA-2230 (SRN 0826) look a lot like what is shown in this video and the undercharge matches what you suspected.
A too light of a powder charge can cause a detonation instead of a burn if the powder settles in the right way. There's a reason for a minimal powder charge when reloading/manufacturing ammo.
I think what happens is the primer creates additional similtaneus burns inside the casing instead of one burn. Excessive deadspace increases the odds this pressure spike has to occur.
True,that is why black powder shooters are told to make sure your bullet is pushed up against the powder charge.
A +/- 6 grain tolerance is horrendous. Even a 0.6 is really bad. 😂 With modern equipment 0.1 is the standard with ball powder. I bet money if you pulled the bullet you shot it was in the high 40’s. 32 grains of a ball powder in 7.62/308 is sketchy af.
@@connerm4850 yes. To me this is intentional. 100% and being inported ammo.... seems like sabotage of 7.62x51 guns....
@@kennethwalton5465 Remember, it had to have ATF approval for importation. Given they're behaviour of late this seems colusive to me. I known it's a stretch without further evidence but I'm sure it's there.
That weight deviation between grains, bullets, and brass is terrifying.
The paranoid part of my mind says this was intentional. The overall weight was consistent, while the bullet weights, the powder weights, and the case weights varied wildly and beyond what I consider the margin of safety.
I can only hope that I am wrong that this was intentional sabotage.
I'd bet they only did QC on final weights, cutting the cost to test powder charges per throw. Plus, the mix of powder types (it appears) is just shoddy.
no, overall weight was way off as well, but he weighed cartridges in grams, not grains, and 1 gram-15.4grains. This crap is just a hazardous mess.
The variation is abhorrent for accuracy, but the powder charges themselves aren't anything scary... the powder looks mixed to me, with flakes AND kernels. Your powder should look relatively uniform in shape, this doesn't.
Anyone who's reloaded for a long period of time can tell you that.
@@loyalargus5618 looks like shotgun or pistol powder mixed in with their rifle powder. Two different burn rates are causing a pressure spike.
I was thinking the same thing. Foreign ammo, there is no reason to think they are not possibly, intentionally misloading ammo to sabotage American shooters. Sox firearms so far reported is more than enough for me to think otherwise!
I reload. One of my 308 loads is 41 grains of H4895. When I see one of your loads at 6 grains less that is scary. Could possibly cause an under charge detonation. Depending on the power type and load specs.
I have seen photographs of a Contender in 45/70 that blew up with a sub-minimum charge of 2400. 2400 is heavily deterrent-coated to maximize the area under the pressure vs. charge weight curve while keeping the peak pressure under control. Some powders will exhibit similar extreme pressure excursions when underloaded. They share one common characteristic with 2400: heavy coatings of burn rate deterrent on the individual powder granules.
Ball and spherical powders depend on deterrents for their characteristics, as they need to burn slowly when the granules are large and rapidly when the granules have been partially consumed in combustion. Stick powders have many benefits but they are poorly suited to automated loading. Globular powders (to use a Dean Grennell neolex) are eminently well suited to automated loading as they flow very nicely through powder measures. A six-grain delta could well be pointing directly at the cause of the pressure excursion.
I concur!
6 grains less? You mean 11 grains less!!!!! (There was one round with 30 grains)
@@alflyover4413 Lower powder charge's recommended for a cartridge do not blow guns up that is an old bar room BS story that has been around for the ages.
If you see a gun blown up from reloads it is due to some knuckle head over charging powder in the cartridge.
I am an advanced reloader from as far back as 1976 where I build custom rifles on wildcat cartridges with no load data, so I load cartridges very low on powders then work up finding the max powder charges.
Never have I see a gun blown up from a low powder charge.
This is as stupid and ignorant as mother F ers making video's that 5.56x45 blows up guns chambered in 223 but the same stupid Mother F er has no idea that reload data has loading that exceed any and all 5/56x45 & 223 commercial loadings with never a gun blows up.
Just a week ago I got some reloads from 5.56x45 and 223 brass with a little too much powder that some of the reloads popped the primers out on firing, did the gun blow up ? NO!
The next batch of reloads the primer firing pin indent after firing was pushed back out, did the gun blow up ? NO!
The amount of stupid ignorant garbage seen from gun videos or ammo and Hunting video's makes me wonder just many dumb mother F er get them self-hurt with guns we don't know about.
I had a guy tell in a sporting goods store he found a load from CZcams for sub sonic 308 loads which is a 200-grain bullet with 45 grains of pistol Trail Boss powder, I told the fool you are going to blow up a gun and get hurt with that load then the moron starts in on me saying I don't know anything!
The rounds with low neck tension are much more likely to have their bullets driven back into their cases when hitting the feed ramp. You might try chambering a number of rounds and then examining them. If any bullets are pushed back, this would increase the firing pressure of those rounds to a considerable degree. This could compound the problem of a high powder charge.
This is exactly my thoughts!
great point, I bet this is a big factor
A few consistency things bother me. One, the scales read to whole grains only. Two, bashing next to an electronic scale is very bad for the running accuracy of the load cell. Three, there's flakes of powder increasing over the bench mat, showing that you're losing powder onto the bench, not into the dish.
That is a horrifying variance in powder charge. I agree with several other commenters, likely a too low powder charge igniting all at once. Completely unacceptable that ammo like that got boxed and sold. ZSR really does need to address that, I would never even consider buying ammo from them if that kind of thing can get past their QC.
I bet ammo production in the darkest days of WWII Germany and Japan wasn't that bad!
What a difference in powder charges!
From 30 to 43 if I remember correctly. That's horrendous itself, not even mentioning the apparently different powders. ZSR NEEDS to put out a statement. Before someone loses a finger, hand, or worse!
After what six rifles have proven its mind-blowing they have not put out a blanket statement to all ammo retailers that could have or do sell their product. The liability factor alone is staggering.
I'm trying to be optimistic that they will do something.
That would mean they are admitting the ammo is bad.
Turkish ammo manufacturer does not care about you or your exploded weapons. They are just here for a profit. When it becomes problematic for them, they will evaporate from the civilian market. I admit that ANY manufacturer can have a problem, but the old adage of "You get what you pay for" definitely still applies.
@@evernhamandersonI'm one of the victims of this ammo. I think you are exactly right. They are not responding to any of the ammo sites they sold too. They don't give a shit. It's not like an American is gonna track them down and take them to court. It would be nice though. My son was shooting my rifle before it exploded on me. That's what pissed me off the most.
ZSR needs to put out a statement. When pulling the rounds, you should record the weight of the case, powder, bullet, and number of impacts. The tighter the crimp with a heavy powder charge will increase pressure. Plus, a light case could indicate a weak, thin area prone to rupture. I'm just an amateur reloader, but my rounds are more consistent than they are. Keep us posted. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! If and when I do more pulls, I’ll definitely document how you suggested.
As a reloader myself that kind of inconsistency can be dangerous. All those who spent money should be reimbursed, and the company should be ashamed of themselves for poor quality control. They could kill someone!
All we can do is spread awareness, especially if the companies involved won’t do anything.
If properly crimped, it should take more than two whacks to pull a projectile. Those lightly/no crimped projectiles may get set back into case under recoil. The cartridges in the magazine will slam into the front of the magazine every time you fire. If there isn't much neck tension on those projectiles, they will get pushed back into the case causing higher pressures
Whacks to pull a projectile??! You need to have competent reloader with an actual bullet puller instead of a plastic hammer you hit on the garage floor pull the slug(s)....
ZSR needs to put out a statement.
Thanks for all the work you are putting into this.
Something I noticed from your picture's of the brass from your other video's is the brass case that came out of the chamber appeared to have ruptured at the back end then the others appeared to have exploded.
My thought was. That the bottom of the brass on the 1 round failed and do to loose fitting rounds caused 1 or 2 other rounds in the magazine it ignite.
Now I can't prove any of this other then saying I went off of your photos.
There are soo many possibilities here. Bad brass, bad machining of brass, hell any or even a few things together causing this.
In all honesty all this ammo should be recalled damages paid.
To any of you that are effected by this and get excellent service from your dealers that sold you the ammo or from the manufacturer of your weapon you need to shout them out with everything your worth
The underloaded round at 30 grains is probably what did it. When the powder level goes below the flash hole, the small hole in the webbing at the base between the primer and the powder, the flash from the primer can shoot over the top of the powder. Powder is designed to burn not explode. There are 2 theories about what happens when a gun blows up from an under charge. The first is the primer lights too large of a surface area across the top of the powder causing to much powder to burn at one time causing an overpressure situation. The second is that the flame of the primer goes over the top and starts the front of the powder charge on fire and burns backward towards the bolt face reversing the intended shock wave causing once again an overpressure situation.
Thanks for the update! ZSR should at least update the public with a statement.
Everything is important in reloading. Differences in powder charge, large differences in brass weight, bullet styles, diameters of the bullets, different primers etc. all can make considerable differences and make a bomb out of a shell. Consistency is what every reloader strives for. Thank you for the heads up and proving why there should be a recall and return of the purchaser's money.
ZSR needs to put out a statement I reload to +- 2/10th of a grain of powder. The most concerning thing is that it appeared to be an inconsistent blend of ball & stick powders. God only knows what powders went into it.
I wish I had more knowledge on powder. I’ll reach out to some reloading buddies of mine.
Thanks for getting through the video!
It can happen when they speed up the extruding process, doesnt affect performance from my experience
The powder has to be the cause. Possibly also weak brass. How would such inconsistency be tolerated from large clumps to stick to normal ball. This may just be mixed rifle & pistol powder in some cases (scary!).
Yes. They DO need to put out a statement.
NO WAY powder weight should show that much variation. Most reloaders and custom loaders try to keep to a tenth of a grain or less. (Definitely less with fast pistol powders)
The variation and inconsistency in the powder grains is very troubling.
Powder grain size determines rate of burn.
Easiest example is shown with black powder. Fast burning flash pan powder is almost fine as dust, pistol powder larger, rifle/musket powder larger yet, and cannon powder can almost look like pepper corns.
Yes, an under weight load can detonate.
But looking at that powder, if you get a case that is mostly the smaller grain, you're going to get a faster burning and therefore higher pressure powder, even if the grains are all the same formulation.
AND the projectile weight. Wow. Did I see 5 grains weight variants in the projectiles?
There goes ANY consistency but, the different grain weights of the bullets will result in different pressures stacking up behind the projectiles even with consistent powders behind them.
Where was this booby trapped ammo imported from?
@@mrwashy2259 I have loaded a bunch of W748 in 223 and know ball powder when I see it. I also used a lot of IMR4895 in the 303 Brit, and know the stick powder. So when I saw both kinds in the same case I kind of freaked.
ZSR needs to put out a statement recalling this ammo & paying refunfds & reparations for damaged guns.
Thanks for watching!! 😎
I would be less concerned about the weight difference in the metal parts than I would about the powder charge, that was a big spread. See definitely needs to put out a statement and they really need to recall all of this lot and remanufactured it from safety.
I watched your video. I have been reloading for 50 plus years. I would suggest finding someone that reloads and add several points for your data collection. Pull the projectile with a bullet pulling die. That will be more accurate than the inertia puller. Measure the case length with callipers. A case that is out of specs can cause excess pressure and can have catastrophic results. Use some of the reloading books to see if you can deduce what power was used. Mic the diameter of the projectile. If oversize , you could have a pressure issue. The fired brass from the day of the explosion, look at the primers. They should not be pressure flat. They should still have some round on the edges. I was looking at the pictures of the exploded brass. It looks like for some reason it fired out of battery. My 2 cents. Be carefully.
So all of the bullets varied from 146-153 grain.
The cases differed 178-182
The powder weight varied 30-43 grain
Bad recipe out there
A more accurate puller? LMFAO.
@@GalacticForceMedia problem isn't on how poorly metered it was, it's what kind of powder was used. (And it was very poorly metered...)
I've crammed 45 grains of IMR 4995 behind a 168 grain projectile in .308 and barely had pressure signs on the primer.
The powders you're pulling out of this brass appear to be a mix of extruded rifle powder and flaked shotgun or pistol powder (most likely pistol)
Two different burn rates cause a pressure spike. This is your culprit.
ZSR needs to out out a statement I know a guy with a pressure test gun. He says if he can get a box of Lot 15, he will measure it for overpressure.
The crimp pressure also changed between the rounds as demonstrated by the # of wacks to have the bullet drop. The tighter the crimp, the high pressure and add the differences in grains of power could be the issue.
I bought a 500-round case of the ZSR lot 15 from TrueShot out of Arizona. After seeing your videos 1& 2 on this ammo, I called them and they immediately offered to buy the ammo back and pay for shipping. They sent me an RMA Fedex label, when they got the ammo back they offered me a refund, or a case of another brand for the original purchase price, which I took them up on (and they paid shipping for the return and the new case coming now). While TrueShot has a lot of cheaper import ammo, they do carry name brand stuff as well. I will be purchasing from them again.
Glad to hear it! BATTLEHAWK ARMORY (where I got my 500 rounds from) is not accepting returns / exchanges / refunds.
@@GalacticForceMedia ZSR needs to put out a statement. I'd never do Biz with Battlehawk Armory again for the way they have handled this-
@@GalacticForceMedia Inform them of what you've found out record the phone conversation so they can't deny it and tell them you'll hold them liable for any damage or injuries they will take the ammo back quite quickly.
When i opened up one of my Winchester 50 BMG shell, the powder wasn't the same shape (flakes and cylinders) so don't always take powder shape as a bad sign I wouldn't trust a amazon style inexpensive scale to validate a problem, one of the issues I have is you prove calibration in grams but not grains. Good video and yes ZSR should have done a recall.
7.62 NATO was generally loaded with one of two powders. The 1st load was 46 grains of Winchester WC 846 spheroidal (round) powder. The 2nd was 41 grains of IMR 4475 Tubular powder (looks like tiny grains of rice). Looks like you got a Winchester style powder. Loads should be very close, as in +/- 0.2 grains.
Projectiles are supposed to be 150.5 grains +/- 6.5 grains.
Looks to me that you have some dangerously light loaded rounds there.
Foreign ammo so who knows what the powder is. Either way the tolerances are abysmal.
I saw flakes in ball powder!
Gotta say, your findings disassembling factory ammo don't surprise me at all. The last four lots of factory ammo from Hornady and Federal that I disassembled had variance up to six grains of powder for 6.5 CM match and 260 Remington match ammo.
Inspecting the powder you could see they were blended powders, similar to what I noticed in your powder cup. There's a reason I reload even on my plinking ammo, because I know how to maintain tight tolerance compared to factory ammo
Thanks for putting out these videos. I only shoot 7.62x51 and at some point probably would have purchased from this manufacturer.
Hope it helped. I, personally will be sticking to better known reputable ammo companies.
Looking through the comments it seems all the right answers have been explained. There’s definitely a mix of different powder types (ball and extruded). The grain weights are particularly odd. I would bet my money on the lighter loads being the dangerous ones. As mentioned in a previous comment, not enough powder is equally as dangerous as too much. The case weights were average for a .308, it’s fairly uncommon to see projectile weight consistently that far off though. I suspect they are buying seconds from other manufacturers. As for extracting the bullets i can say they are not suitable for semi auto use because there seems to be almost zero crimp.
ZSR should put out a statement is an understatement lol.
You did us all a great service with this video, i feel you conducted this test very well. Thank you
I have never seen a mix of powder shapes like that. The powder seems to be a blend of various powders. There is predominately ball with stick and some odd shaped lumps too. Very odd.
The only thing I can think of would be the projectile being pushed into the case due to the light crimp and causing a pressure spike...a light crimp wouldn't cause damage by itself, but it would account for why so many projectiles were separated from their cases. POSSIBLY a light crimp would allow a second or third round to gang fire in the mag. You would've found an exploded case.
Usual recommendations for loading is to drop the recommended max charge 10% and build your load to the most accurate without exceeding the max load and to stop if cases from test loads show signs of overpressure. A 10% variation in load to load of a lot isn't acceptable though.
The little bits that don't look like the ball powder are likely shreds of the wrappers that the powder is extruded into before being cut. It was fairly common in stick and flake powders that I used years ago...I haven't seen a lot of it in ball powder. I'd guess powders such as Red Dot, Blue Dot, and Green Dot got their name from those particular pieces.
Okay, let me start with this. ZSR needs to put out a statement. Yes I followed the video I followed all of the videos about this, from beginning to end and holy cow! I've been a reloader since I was 16 years old (and I'm now turning 67 next month) starting with shotgun shells, and working up into Rifle and Pistol. While I was in the military I got into competition shooting, rifle, pistol and silhouette. And I did all of my own ammunition I never fired any commercial ammunition during competition. I would fire it during practice and to fireform the cases for a couple of Wildcat loads that I had. What I've just seen with these 11 rounds scares the hell out of me that there are commercial Reloaders out there that have this much of a variance intolerances. One thing though, when I was checking my cases I always looked at my cases for case volume (using water) rather than case weight, I would also Mic my cases. Good luck with this, and thanks for shedding the light on this for all of us out here
A difference of 13g’s (30-43) is not only dangerous, it is ridiculous. I would say ZSR is at fault. Good luck with your lawsuit and thank you for the information.
The power charge is so inconsistent you don't need to be a reloader to notice its terrifying, I'm don't know much about reloading and I laughed when I saw 30 grain on the lucky 13😂
I have been reloading since I was 10 and I am 56. The bullet weights look good and are of normal variance for the FMJ. The case weight variance are also normal. The powder on the other hand is not normal. I have used a lot of pull down powder over the years and have never seen ball, spherical and stick powder mixed like that. The powder weight itself is not an indication of anything other than poor consistency. In the load data that I quickly looked at for about 30 or so different powders it ranged from 35 min to 50 max grains compressed. Who knows there may even be pistol powder mixed in those loads. No way to tell what it going on pouring it out and weighing like your doing. There is a true story (pictures of the rifle and hospital photos proved it) of an older guy who lived in Montana who was reloading with his teenage granddaughter and he had a mix of rifle and pistol powder on his reloading bench. As they finished up he got called away and the granddaughter took it upon herself to empty the pistol powder from the powder drop hopper back into the container except she put it into the rifle powder container. At a later time he reloaded some rifle rounds with it and went shooting. He was not so lucky as he was completely scalped and half of his facial bones broken. The rifle was in maybe 30 or so pieces. I would put my money on the powder.
ZSR definitely needs to recall this batch of ammo. Those fluctuations in powder weight are dangerous. You should go buy a lottery ticket because you are lucky no one was injured.
I'm even more confident now seeing lucky 13 that this is a hs110 or similar powder and the poor consistency in the powder loads is leaving an occasional cartridge with a light enough powder charge to become explosive
# 13 was where I had to stop for a moment and do a double take.
@@GalacticForceMedia and the number of cartridges that you had to go through to get another like that seems pretty consistent with the number of rifles having these failures
Powder Load = inconsistent
Powder granule shape size = very inconsistent
brass and bullet = lol
This all adds up to rounds I don't want to own. Thank you or all your work here.
ZSR needs to out out a statement. I shot 3 boxes, and luckily no issues for me. I reached out to True Shot where I purchased and they allowed me to return unused product since ZSR is not doing anything. Good on True Shot for doing that.
True shot and KIR ammo really came through.
ZSR, whoever they are, needs to put out a statement ASAP! Not only could people be trusting this stuff with family protection, and have it fail. Not only could people be trusting this stuff to take down a large animal, and have it fail. But also, like in your case, people could DIE from just plinking at the range!! I’ll add another…Guns chambered in .308 are usually way more expensive than smaller caliber firearms, and that financial impact could be catastrophic to some! Thanks for another video!
That is wild grain varience for what looks like 150gr ball. 2 thumps sounds like bad neck tension and seating. The mixed powders is a cardinal DON'T DO THAT BAD THINGS FOLLOW. Others have covered the powders used for nato ball ammo and some of them are way light.
ZSR needs to put out a statement and provide refunds and recalls.
XSR needs to put out a statement, but likely won't. Since we don't know any particulars on the powder ie manufacturer, burn rate, we don't know the correct weight of the powder charge. It would be interesting to run the same test on domestically manufactured ammo and see the round to round variation. I did notice a little spillage on your work surface. I know that when I use an inertial puller, there is always powder that fouls the threads of the puller. With the amount of variation, I doubt the little bit of spillage would make more than 0.1 grain diff. Enjoyed the vid.
Thanks for watching! ZSR will hopefully see these and make a statement, but, I won’t hold my breath. All we can do is spread the awareness to stop using this lot.
The only statement ZSR needs to put out is one saying they are refunding everyone for their ammo and destroyed rifles, followed by an announcement they are immediately ending their ammo manufacturing business.
ZSR needs to put out a statement!! It's been a long while since I did any reloading, but that powder looks funky/inconsistent.
Thanks for getting through the video!
The inconsistent powder charges are unbelievable. The powder looks like it has been reclaimed and picked up something else along the way. That could be a different powder, modifier, inert filler, or thrash. The powder charges all seem in line or on the low side for a 7.65x51mm NATO round. It takes a substantial overcharge to blow up a rifle. It is more likely a detonation caused by a reduced load, possibly aggravated by a lightly crimped bullet blown out of the case and into the start of rifling by the primer before the powder is fully ignited. The only thing consistent about that ammo is its inconsistency.
There is only a 0.2-grams (3-grains) variance in the loaded rounds but a 15-grain variance in the powder charge. That isn'tnessarally an error on your part. It is possible the powder was metered and weighed directly in the cartridge case using the average tare weight of the cases instead of tareing each case. That would be something an ignorant worker might do to increase production.
Your weighing methods could stand some improvement. Weighing the components of each round as you broke it down would give more information than weighing the components separately. Do all your weights in the same system. It is good practice to at least two weights for calibration near the weights you are measuring. Five and ten-gram weight. Check your calibration before and after every set of measurements.
Great catch! That makes a lot of sense.
I've been under the impression that most kabooms are caused by an over-crimped round or too much headspace in the gun, but both seem unlikely here. I'll have to look through your older videos to see if you recovered the round at the range. If it was caused by an over-crimped projectile, it seems like the average round in this batch isn't crimped anywhere near that hard. ZSR should put out a statement that acknowledges the pattern and comes to terms with this batch being the common factor, though at this point it's too late for maximum effect. Given how many kabooms people have seen from this batch specifically, a recall is the bare minimum expectation. I think this is a big opportunity for ZSR to show us that they're eager to do the right thing. Mistakes can be remedied, but what can't be remedied is the perception of denying responsibility. If they recalled the batch and compensated those who were harmed by their defective product, it could be a huge marketing success at comparatively little expense. I'm eager to see what the Turkish manufacturer chooses to do, if anything.
ZSR has a very serious problem with its “batch 15” . I’ve never used ZSR and never will after seeing these issues destroying weapons, especially the Springfield M1A SOCOM16 . Wow ! Hope no one was injured with the other firearms that were destroyed . ZSR ! Put out a statement !
Thanks for getting through the video!
I dunno. If the brass is solid and consistent, as well as cheap, it would make ok components. The case looks about as nice as my federal GMM .308 cases.
I did a quick search on the nato powder load and these are way overloaded depending on the powder manufacturer. The highest load was 29 grains to a low of 14 grains keep in mind that the manufacturers are different. It would seem that these loads are hot and should never be used.
ZSR NEEDS TO PUT OUT A STATEMENT
I like this guy, he's warning us about bad ammo.
Reloader for 30 years. My tolerance on my powder load on rifle ammo is exact to the 1/10th of a grain.
This is incredibly inconsistent, and I wouldn't be surprised if you got a squib (massively undercharged, leaving a barrel obstruction)
It looks to me like 3 different types of powder in there. You have the spheres, the oblong grains of rice type and the flat disc or flake type. That just seems insane to me. ZSR needs to put out a statement.
Thanks. I’d love to see you do the same thing with a box from another batch. Compare it with this batch and also see if the powders look the same.
Zsr needs to put out a statement. Differences in primer ignition, powder charge (weight) and bullet seating depth can each lead to unsafe rounds. Minor differences in bullet weight, case weight and neck crimp can lead to inaccurate rounds but don't usually create unsafe ammo. The word usually is important.
Thanks for getting through the vid!
It's the powder. If you look very closely you will see Flake powder and Ball powder and cylinder powder. I also believe that their is fast pistol powder in the mix but without a sample of the powder I can't say for sure if it is present or not. But the powder you showed is definitely a blend of at least 3 different powders and possibly a 4th fast pistol powder.
The obscene land of stacked tolerances. ZSR needs to put out a statement.
Thanks for getting through the vid!
Ball powder requires a fairly high density of charge in the case or positional anomalies can and have happened. People were shooting light charges but always settled the powder to the rear of the case then gently lowering to the target and firing. One guy let his friend shoot his rifle and didn't tell him about the handling procedure and it did blow up. Ball powder needs to be lit on one end then burn progressively through the column....light charges can get spread all around the interior and the whole charge lights instantly which spikes the pressure and things come apart.
Those really light charges are worrisome, but something else to think about is the machinery that loads the ammo is almost always metering the powder volumetrically...and having such discrepancies using a common volume chamber often means you had a blockage either feeding or delivering to the case. If the light rounds are from a partial blockage...the rest of that powder charge is still in the pipe and likely to be fed to the next case along with its' normal charge. This small sample has found some light ones...but a severely overcharged one is very likely to be out there after seeing these results.
ZSR needs to put out a statement. Another person has the right idea, get with a serious reloader. They will have a more accurate scale and meticulous attention to minor details. It’s scary when purchased ammunition causes catastrophic failures. 4 confirmed from the same lot should have grabbed the attention of the manufacturer right away! Good luck!
Seeing three different types of powder in those rounds is absolutely crazy. There's no telling how many specific powders among those three types may be in there. It makes me wonder whether ZSR is using 'laborers' fresh out of the ISIS caves with no training or education period.
So, i see in the powder weird shapes. Some are balls, some bigger "blobs." Is entirely possible that ZSR is using a volumetric powder measure to charge cases. If you had a big vat on that kind of powder over time due to vibration in the factory that powder could settle out into strata based on grain size/shape. Small grains may have a faster burn rate (assuming they're the same formulation) than bigger grains, think ffg vs fffg in black powders. Therefore a charge of the same volume may have more potential energy if it contains finer powder vs course. Just my 2c.
Good info!
@@GalacticForceMedia its a wild ass guess. But it's the best I got.
As a reloader too I suspect that the bullet maker is either using a faster burning powder to save money or the powder is made by a company with little or no quality control. Either way, the rounds need to be sent to a lab to check the CUP. In the meantime, all rounds made by ZSR should be suspect and pulled from the shelves.
ZSR needs to put out statement at least, and should do full recall on all that lot. Sounds like the bullet crimp was to weak and your getting bullet set back on cartridges in magazine of the rifle. And after numerous rounds are fired the bullets are in far enough to over pressure firearm and it explodes. That is one possibility.
It’s a great theory that I have thought as well. Multiple bullets fell out of their casings when the failure occurred.
Two things I see that are of concern, one is that it looks like powders got mixed, secondly the inconsistency of the charge. There is a difference between 35 grains of powder and 43 grains of powder when it comes to pressure especially in the same box of ammo, very inconsistent.
ZSR needs to put out a statement. My only complaint is to recalibrate the scale as you go you were doing a lot of banging on the wood and the scale was against it. Aside from that I’m following the series
In the full unedited footage the scale was recalibrated multiple times, but not shown in the CZcams video on the final edit.
@@GalacticForceMedia I'd say your powder weights were skewed by rapping the puller on the table and in close proximity to the scale. Certainly, by hitting the puller on the table did no justice to an inexpensive scale. You may have re-zeroed several times but I would not trust the accuracy due to the manner it was used and the abuse it sustained. Hope you get answers before a serious injury occurs.
@@josephjulian2503 Make your own video. tapping on the bench won't make a 10 grain difference. ZSR needs to put out a statement.
@@greydaddie my opinion disagrees with yours. I’m good with that. No matter. That is some seriously dangerous ammo.
AND THANKS FOR YOUR TAKEING THE TIME TO SHOW THE BREAKDOWN OF THESE LOADS. ALL THOUGH IT ONLY TAKES ONE MISTAKE TO RUIN YOUR DAY ,GUN ,SELF,AS YOU KNOW.
I’ve been reloading rifle and pistol ammo for 45 years and would like to add my opinion to this discussion. I definitely think defective ammo is the cause of these incidents. I think some cases are being overfilled with powder which is then highly compressed when the bullet is seated. When these cartridges are fired they are generating pressure far greater than the case can contain. The cases are rupturing at the case head and in your incident sending the gas at over 60,000 psi into the rifles magazine. That lot of ammo needs to be recalled immediately before someone is seriously injured.
Let’s hope the ammo gets recalled. There’s supposedly 500,000+ rounds in this lot.
I have DSA FAL Cold Warrior that was a casualty to this ammo lot in late march. One round sent my dust cover flying 50 ft to my right; my israeli magazine imploded, and the spent casing was jammed tight in the barrel, action locked up. DSA customer service and staff was phenomenal, replaced barrel extractor and dust cover at no charge.
I contacted ZSR and battlehawk to no avail. 498 rounds of this trash left.
If I’m not mistaken, we spoke about this incident and you sent photos, correct? Just making sure there’s not another to add to the list!
@@GalacticForceMedia If I did sorry I'd forgotten about it. I've made an effort to try to warn as many people as possible, some manufacturers may not be as generous as DSA was with me, and I would hate for someone with an awesome hobby (target shooting) to be injured by faulty ammunition. We take for granted that factory made ammunition is safe most of the time. Definitely appreciate your video and efforts in looking into this bad lot.
Shoot me an email at galacticforcemedia@gmail.com please
About 20+ years ago I was the RO at a local outdoor range when one of our members had his 1903-A3 rifle blow up. The mag well was blown out, the barrel band was cracked and the bolt was jammed back over half an inch (hence the cracked BBL band). Turned out he was reloading his 30-06 rounds with a fast-burning ball (pistol) powder and only filling the case not quite half full. After talking with several long-time reloaders, a guy who used to work for an ammo company and a couple of gunsmiths, we concluded his first round (which fired normally) still had the powder close enough to the primer he had an ignition. The second round (the one that blew up), probably due to recoil (he was shooting off a sand-bagged bench) had kicked most of the powder forward and resulted in a detonation. This can and does happen with fast-burning ball powders. Any idea what powder this company was using and how much they were filling the case? With a deviation of 15-20 grains of powder that could make a serious difference! Love and appreciate your videos. Please keep making them.
Zsr needs to put out a statement. Every aspect of all the component’s’ inconsistencies is what added up to the mishap. On the pulled cases, get a micrometer and if any of the cases measure longer than 2.015” There is your kaboom. As a reloader, every manual we read screams at us to trim our cases. The .308 headspaces from the shoulder to the bolt face, if the neck is too long and engages the throat of the bore, you might not know it. If round is fired and the case neck intrudes past the throat and onto the rifling, when the bullet tries to get in there with the case neck, it will encounter more resistance than was intended and create an over pressure event that will exceed the engineered limits of the materials involved. The detonation will follow the path of least resistance, usually the brass case head. When the case head ruptures or separated, it tends to blow the extractor off a garand type rifle and the gas and still burning powder , following least resistance still, dive into the magazine and blow the insides of the magazine out the floor plate. Whew !
I will grab the calipers and measure the pulled cases!
This is what I saw as well. Powder charges were very inconsistent. You need a scale that goes out to hundredths preferably. Any decent powder measure can stay within 0.1/gr. 5 grains variance is extremely dangerous!
We had grains weighing 30-43 on the 13 we tested. That’s insane.
@@GalacticForceMedia Yours have way more variance than mine. I've yet to inspect the insides of the cases. However, I did inspect the primers and found nothing abnormal. All seated flush, no smashed/flat etc.
ZSR NEEDS TO PUT OUT A STATEMENT!!!
I’ve finished the video, and a couple of things occur to me. I reload .308, mostly using a much heavier 175 gr Sierra Matchking bullets and a different powder, and I have pulled bullets both from my own handloads, and from mil-surp ball ammo. Several things occur to me…
The first thing I noticed when you dumped your powder into the bowl and showed us the close-ups is that it looks like ZSR is using a blend of powders, not a single consistent brand/type of powder. I mostly handload .308 using either Varget, or BL-C (2)…the latter of which was originally developed for use in manufacture 7.62x51 NATO. Under closeup, each of these two powders is consistent in the appearance of the individual shape and size of the powder grains. There are no differently shaped powder grain mixed in with them. These two powders have different burn rates, produce different pressure spikes, and should *NEVER* be combined, as there’s virtually no way to proof-test the load in a safe manner. Judging strictly by low charge weights, I suspect that ZSR might be mixing powders from wherever they can buy them, and then loading low charge weights in an attempt to offset any risks. But since it’s not really possible for them to control that variable when they start mixing powders, at the "higher" charge weights of 40-43 grains, they begin producing pressure spikes that exceed the rating for caliber. (FYI, I routinely use higher charge weights than this to reload .308 … but I’m staying within the guidelines for the powder that I’m using as recommended in the Lyman loading manual, and I’m not MIXING powders.)
The next thing that occurs to me is possible bullet set-back under recoil. I have pulled bullets on a fair number of .308 ball ammo over the years, and the one thing they have in common is that the bullet is firmly crimped into the case-neck, and it takes much more than two raps with the bullet-puller to pop that bullet out. Something smells bad here. It’s possible that the cases weren’t correctly neck-sized prior to seating the bullets, or maybe they weren’t crimped. Either way, if the bullet fit to case-neck is sub-specification, then you’ll get bullet set-back under recoil in the magazine. Bullet set-back effectively reduces the total case capacity, which can have the effect of increasing chamber pressure to dangerous levels, causing a kaboom. (This became a problem with Glock pistols in .40 S&W some years ago due to the unsupported case head.) The specified cartridge overall length (COL) for .308 is 2.80". If you still have any of the unfired rounds that were in the magazine at the time your rifle kaboomed, it would be interesting to know whether any of those unfired rounds (the ones subjected to recoil) spec’d out to less than 2.80" as measured with a micrometer. Secondarily, it would be interesting to know if any of the unfired cartridges still in the box came in at less than 2.80" in COL.
Lastly, the disparity of bullet weights from bullet to bullet indicates that ZSR either mixed bullet batches, or they used crappy bullets. Now, even match-grade bullets show some minor variations from one to the other. When I open a new box of 175 gr Sierra Matchkings, one of the first things I’ll do is visually inspect, measure, and weigh each one. Most will weigh exactly 175 gr, but there will always be some that weigh 174 gr. But there is never a variation of 4 or more gr, like you got with bullets weighing 147 gr, and others weighing 151 gr. This variation may be unavoidable with mass-produced bullets; but if there are such variations in weight, what did the extra weight do to the bullet's diameter or length?
Anyway, I certainly hope that ZSR is shamed into some accountability with posts like this. Good luck with your crusade.
I love that you're going full Paul Harrell on this and putting ALL the science out there for us to see. See, this is why I joined when this mess started - I was hoping for a CSI-level analysis of all this, and you did not disappoint! Seems ZSR needs to put out a statement..
I guess you could say you were a little... _burnt up!_ **SUNGLASSES**
YEAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!
I figured being as transparent as possible was the way to go, even if I went deep into the woods and wasn’t that exciting.
Definitely an experience overall and never would have thought I’d be in this mess to begin with.
take my upvote for that one liner... i'd give another if i could.
ZSR NEEDS TO PUT OUT A STATEMENT!!! They really do...!
I couldn't help but notice when you were picking up the bowl that the negative reading on your scale was different by a few grains between a few of the measurements of powder. I find with my personal experience that is a good idea to tare the scale between each measurement, and to have two containers so that if your questioning a measurement you can swap an empty container and tare it out, then add the powder. Also i am by no means saying the ammo isn't crap.
yup!
I am not an expert. I do not reload. I am glad you and range buddies are healthy and safe. Based on everything you have learned and presented. "A reasonable person" would conclude this is a bad lot of manufactured ammunition. ZSR needs to put out a statement. There is a well known UTUBr that shows a lengthy vid on reloading black powder for a Martini rifle. One of the steps is packing added in the casing to prevent having any kind of air space inside the cartridge. If not in that example things can go boom. Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mic the bullets. It could reveal alot. I'm very interested in seeing where this goes.
Mic the bullets? Please explain, so if it’s something I need to do next time, I will
He means to put a micrometer on the bullet, and the inner and outer diameter walls of the brass...
This way you get variables that could influence the lack of energy and attempts needed to extract the bullet from the brass...
@@americanpeasant2815 I didn't use a mic (I don't have one) but I did use dial calipers and they're right on .308
@@muthaflaco75 how are the lenghts of the cases ? Cases to long, can cause this exact failure.
ZSR needs to put out a statement YESTERDAY.
"ZSR needs to put out a statement"
Oh WOW!!! 6 to 9 grains of difference is a LOT. Enough to create a detonation across the top of the low-laying powder...about level with the primer flash hole. I forgot what that low-powder detonation was called. 2 grains is plenty enough to feel some difference in a .308 cartridge...but 9 grains is dangerous.
ZSR needs to put out a statement. I would also like to see several boxes of this lot and several boxes pulled from other lots examined in a proper lab. I think the inconsistencies might actually be even greater than what you have found.
I've been following this series. My question is are all of the damaged rifles an autoloader like your M1A. If so my theory is possibly with the number of loads unseating with 2 whacks are rounds unseating in the magazine under recoil and when the bolt cycles enough retained hot gasses or flames are detonating spilled powder in the magazine setting off a chain reaction. ZSR needs to put out a statement!
Out of the 4 rifles that were confirmed, all were auto loading. One of the unconfirmed I believe is a bolt action.
I took share your theory of what may have happened.
I think you have it. To me it looked like the rounds in the magazine cooked off. Almost like it was powder just burning.
The rounds cooking off has to be the result of the case blowing it's primer out and venting gas into the magazine and I expect the magazine to help maintain oal.
@@GalacticForceMedia Bullet set back may be a issue here ?
Zsr needs to put out a statement. I am also a reloaded and what I saw was totally unacceptable.
My guess is that a low powder charge allowed the powder to lay flat along the low side of the case which uncovers the primer port. That causes the primer to fire over the whole charge, igniting 100% at once instead of the normal rear to front progressive burn.
At this point ZSR needs to put out a general recall and certainly replace the damaged rifles as well as the ammo cost. I sincerely hope they sold some to NATO. Then they will get their pee-pee whacked, foreign company or no.
Thanks for watching! Let’s hope something is done about all this.
HS110 is common powder for this NATO type load.......funny thing about that powder is the extra air and space left in a casing from a light powder charge turns it from propellant to explosive and will yield a similar result as these blown up actions
Thanks for explaining that.
sell the ammo to russia or china maybe n. korea
My biggest concern isn’t the variation in charge weights but that it appears to have 3 different types of powder mixed together. Second would be the variation in charge weights, +or- 1 grain is on the sketchy end but 7-8 gr variances are really troubling to think about.
As I posted in the other video, the possible culprit is either overcharged or undercharged the later causing double detonation/detonation. Its something reloaders are really anal about. I reload mostly magnum pistol cartridges but larger cases like 308 can have excessive deadspace in them with below spec charges which can cause the detonation problem. I have never witnessed it myself.
All this talk about low charges detonating is misleading, its a very very rare occurence. More than one expert has deliberately tried to replicate this condition to no avail. This to me sounds more like an urban legend than anything else because there are so many variables involved.
Bullet set back is a possibility also, light crimp pressure, low powder charge, large case volume, heavy bullet weight, maybe out of Sammi specs also? Kaboom...
If those rounds were crimped suitably for use in a semiauto, a kinetic bullet puller wouldn’t budge the bullets.
An assessment of the variation in powder charge was requested. Well, it’s sure too much variation for me, and none of my powder measures would deviate more than ± 1 grain, and for a ball powder, which this appears to be, no more than half a grain. That said, the variation itself would almost certainly produce poor accuracy, and in a semiauto like the M1A, might affect the operation of the gas system.
My theory has been wrong powder all along, and I’m sticking with that.
i can say that i actually shattered my frankford arsenal bullet puller hammer thing [same one he has] trying to pull bullets from some actual military surplus 7.62x51 from lake city. they also crimp the primers in the pocket.
The range was 30-43 grains. I want to test more, but it could be chasing a ghost at this point. I was hoping to find something way over charged, but seems everything may have been undercharged, which to my understanding, can still be very dangerous.
I felt like I wasn’t even hitting hard. They just fell out after a couple of moderate taps.
@@mrmors1344 1. For the first problem, military rounds always have a heavy crimp and may also be sealed. Put the rounds through a press using the seating die, and just screw the die down enough to seat the bullet a tiny bit more. This will break the crimp and the seal, so a conventional bullet puller can then be used.
2. For crimped primers, I got tired of breaking regular decapping pins, so I bought one of those cheap little Lee sets made specifically for that purpose. (Then, when reloading those cases, don’t forget to use a chamfering reamer or swage tool to remove the remains of that primer crimp.)
@@GalacticForceMedia Yeah, that’s not enough crimp. In a semiauto, recoil itself can move the bullet in the case if it’s inadequately crimped. Visualize that action slamming a new round into the chamber, and you’ll get the idea.
ZSR needs to put out a statement, but they won't.
These comments highlight to me that hand-loading (safely, properly) is an exact science, and not only would I not know what I was doing if I tried, but that I probably have no business doing it at all, much as I love the idea of making my own ammo and reusing my brass which I have collected for 20+ years. Nope. I can understand how bad this is as a layman. Great video. Now I think I'm going to see if someone wants to buy my brass.
I don't reload, but aren't there different types of powders? If use the correct weight of wrong powder that may be problem? Great video with lots to take in and figure out. Keep on rolling.
I don’t reload either. I’m just trying to get as much data as I can out there so more people are aware of what happened to 6 rifles from one ammo lot.
There are 192(?) types of powder (read in another comment, so that’s not my statement)
Excellent video with good information…I’ve been handloading for 50+ years and the QC (or lack there of) for this ZSR ammunition is mind blowing and scary…I’ll never buy it…and I’ve shared your video with with my gun club friends…a BIG THANK YOU! 👍🤘👍…this reminds me of the AMERC 9MM ammunition debacle from about 20 years ago.
As a single man going through the most severe dry spell of my life, two whacks sounds about right to me....
Comment of the hour!
ZSR needs to put out a statement. The company has three major subsidiaries Two of these make ammo under ZSR and Yaf brands and the other SAREX manufactures explosives. For those trying to find out what powder they use is going to be futile. They probably produce their own formulation or purchase it from other Turkish or E.U. manufacturers.They state that the use Double Base Powder for the M-80 ball ammunition.. Interesting that they do not mention conformance to NATO - STANAG 2310 specs for 7.62 ammo. Their other quality control documentation is very minimal and pales in comparison to other E.U. manuf. like GECO,RUAG ,Fiocchi and others. They are also not a member of SAAMI or C.I.P.(Turkey is not a signatory) . As far as Your testing it is much too small a sample size to draw any valid statistical conclusion. But it scares the hell out of me. That much variation in powder charge in amazing and could be indicative of even smaller loads being dispensed. As several others have pointed out undercharging can cause detonation rather than burning. If the propellant powder has been contaminated with pistol, shotgun or blank powder this could also be the problem. My background: ,2 years E.O.D. ,1 year quality control at military munitions contractor as part of under grad Ind. Engr. program, Malcom Baldridge Quality Control auditor reloader since 1972, and life time high power shooter and collector.
Great info!
Need to do the same thing with a box of federal m80 ammo
I plan on comparing rounds to American made ammo, so yes.
YES THIS COMPANY SHOULD PUT OUT A STATEMENT,THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED,
This looks like mixed powder. Mostly ball powder. Depends on the burn rate of the powder a 10 grain differance is unacceptabel. Also the bullet pull effects the burn rate.
Thanks for your input. Appreciated!
ZSR needs to put out a statement : First of all , the bullet puller is plastic and you don't need to hit a piece of wood , you can do it in one hit .... If the grain weight of the powder were 3 or more over when measuring the whole cartridge , you don't have to dump out every single bullet ... Look at the case when its full of powder and see how high up it appears to the neck . Its not likely to have enough room left to over charge it enough to cause an explosion . If the company used the wrong powder for that cartridge or it was contaminated then yes .
ZSR needs to put out a statement. And recall their lot 15 of M80.
I have a batch of lot 58. I haven’t shot any. I’m not confident enough to use it and I’m not willing to sell it, I don’t want to possibly endanger someone else. I’m going to pull some apart and see if I get similar results. Never buying ZSR again.
Would love to get data on other lots!!
@@GalacticForceMedia I have boxes from lot 64. I can send you a box if you can DM me.
I have a suggestion sir. Because the scale is a precision item you might not want to drop the powder and bullet into the glass cup while it sits on the scale as the shock might damage the scale's ability to weigh properly. Also inspect the metal casing for hair line cracks around the extraction point and primer that may extend towards the extraction rim. Also, were all bullets seated the same depth into the neck of the casing ??? The color of the gun powder looked the same but could have had a different burn rate. ZSR needs to put out a statement. Thanks for the video.
Whole grain increases from 35 to 43. Very lucky on injury or death. I say lawyer up
The last bullet I pulled was 30 grains. Very inconsistent overall.
@Galactic Force Media I messed up. And sent comments too fast. Powder should not be that different. The 40 pluss I believe are way too hot.