I have Neumann 7-9 w/ the Czech Phil on CD and Silvestri on LP so I'm satisfied. Let me say that I L-O-V-E this channel and all you do. For a newbie like me, every video is like a masterclass. My wife on the other hand who sees all of the Amazon/eBay purchases, she's not your biggest fan.
Christoph von Dohnányi is my go-to on this one--he and the Cleveland forces really nail the first movement's darkest and most powerful moments! I'm curious whether it was well regarded at the time of its release and how it was understood to stack up against Davis/Concertgebouw.
Dohnanyi is also my go to 7th. It is as much the balance in the first movement as anything else, and the horns are drowned out near the end as the frequently are.
I would never have guessed Davis to be the reference for Dvorak's 7th. My first exposure to Dvorak's 7th live was with Cleveland on tour with Maazel a few years after Szell's death. That was truly thrilling and provided the necessary kick in the pants for me to seek out Szell's earlier recording. Honestly, I imagined Szell to be the reference, but I'm willing to give Davis a try. Thanks Dave for highlighting a lesser known reference. If you hadn't, there's almost no chance I would have encountered it. Take care!
Have the Monteux and The London Symphony on London/Decca recording in my collection. You are right, it is one of the best. Will listen to Davis's recording, but I don't think it will change my mind. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. THANKS DAVE !!!
Very interesting, I would have never guessed that C. Davis would be the reference, I always thought the consensus is the Monteux Decca version. They are both great recordings tough, don't get me wrong, I am not saying Davis is bad. I can't wait for the video on Vaughan Williams symphony cycles. From what I read on the topic, it should probably be either Handley or Previn. Everybody seems to agree that Previn has some fabulous individual recordings, but probably lacks a bit in the consistency category, so on the whole I think Handley is the consensus right now. His cycle, while still not perfect (as you pointed out in some of your videos, you have to really crank up the volume in order to enjoy it fully), always seems to be brought up when talking about these pieces and most people say it is their favorite one overall. Also it is more widely available, being in the Warner Vaughan Williams collector's edition, while Previn seems to not be in print for quite some time (I really hope RCA would reissue it soon, the Slaktin set too, but my hopes are not high). One cycle that kind of shocked me is not the reference is Boult's, but that is because he did two of them and people always argue witch is better - some say the Warner set is superior because of the great stereo sound, others like the Decca one, they argue it's more exiting. So yeah, my bet is either Handley or Previn, Previn being the original reference, maybe overshadowed by Handley when it came out. Anyway, that is my take on the topic, I would be very interested in your definitely more educated opinion, Vaughan Williams is one of my favorite composers, certainly the greatest British symphonist (Bax is great too, but not nearly as well known and I would argue his main strength is in the tone poems), so I think a video about his symphonies would be very appreciated. Thank you for all of the great work, I love this new series, exploring the general consensus in a field, that for many is totally subjective is a great idea that really adds a lot to the value of this already terrific channel!
Yes! Just after the fall of the "iron curtain" I went for a city trip to Prague! There were recordshops ( "Supraphone") on nearly every corner. And most of them sold LPs and CDs of Neumann and the Czech Phil.! I bought a lot, because they were so cheap. They are fantastic!
Wholeheartedly agree. Davis puts across the febrile, changeable nature of the music better than just about anyone; the Concertgebouw cover themselves in glory.
Paita was strongly recommended in the 1980s but he had his own label and the recording was very difficult to get hold of. I eventually managed to get it and it was good. No Amazon in those days!
My intro to Dvorak 7th was Szell back around 1960. I'm not sure there were too many other choices at the time. But WQXR played it and that's how I heard it and asked my mom to buy it for my 10th birthday. So, for me, it's my reference...and one of the better versions.
For me, it comes down to how the finale is handled. Does the symphony achieve tragedy or is it triumphant. And in the case of this truly great symphony, I like it both ways. So I retain multiple copies of it for this reason and listen to whichever according to my mood.
OT. Dave, gave you ever reviewed the Sony Peter Serkin The Complete Album Collection? It's miraculously still available, although it was issued in 2019. I have his six disc Mozart, but I'm curious about the rest.
I too remember this recording coming out and it made, quite rightly, a real splash! Personally, my go-to is the later Charles Mackerras' LPO (on the now defunct EMI Eminence label) - I just find it a bit more taut and compelling than Davis' to my ears, but no doubt Davis' earlier recording is still a significant reference for this piece.
I saw Ivan Fischer do a wonderful Dvorak 7th with his Budapest orchestra. I listened to the Monteux on vinyl today, which is so good. I always liked the Dohnanyi. By the way, I think you're a dead ringer for Dvorak.
Do you consider 7 to be “greater” than New World? As an enlightened amateur, I’d have guessed the later. If it is a greater work, is there a musical reason why?
I am a layperson, but the Ninth is overplayed (though I never tire of hearing it) , and the Eighth Symphony doesn't follow classical form as strictly. Also, the Seventh is darker and dark minor key symphonies are often considered greater than happier/less dark symphonies.
This is all so interesting to me. As a kid I used to discuss the beauty of classical music with my father, OBM. Dave, your site brings me back to the happiest moments of my childhood with my father.
I imprinted on Bernstein's 1963 Dvorak 7th, which if I'm recalling correctly was Dave's choice for the best version. Why didn't that become the reference?
I would like to know why the 7th is his masterpiece. For me, the 8th was always my favorite (except when I just listen to the 9th). I love Dvorak - and of course the 7th is excellent - but why it is superior?
@@horacenyc492 I've been unecessarily dismissive in my comment. I have listened to many versions of the 7th, and I just can't find one that pleases me in every regard, one that I could say: "yep, this is the one!", as I have for all other Dvorak symphonies. At them moment, I would say that Mackerras' on Signum is my favorite one, though the sonics are a step below some others, with Anguelov having beautiful strings and orchestral textures, but simply lacking power at moments (as if I'm listening to a big chamber orchestra) and Flor on BIS for the recording quality, but a completely different feel to the symphony. For Fischer's, it's a matter of balance between the different parts of the orchestra, and I feel the strings are to far back, boxed in, and lacking treble (I have the same problem with his other Channel Classics recordings). I must say that I do 90% of my listening though headphones, so I am more sensitive to certain aspects of a recordings that may or may not show on speakers.
@WyldRage I personally like very much Mackerras' recording of the 7th on the defunct EMI Eminence label with the LPO. Is the Signum one with the Philharmonia? I unfortunately don't know it.
@@curseofmillhaven1057 Yes, it's with the Philharmonia. I haven't heard the one with the LPO. I know the LPO label has rereleased the 8th, but not 7 or 9.
@@WyldRageThanks for that - I'll try and check the Signum out. I think the LPO performances of the 8th & 9th you mentioned, on their own label, are live versions. The EMI Eminence 7th I know (which was coupled with fine 9th too) is a digital studio recording. I think it's been deleted sadly - always find it rather wonderful.
I have Neumann 7-9 w/ the Czech Phil on CD and Silvestri on LP so I'm satisfied. Let me say that I L-O-V-E this channel and all you do. For a newbie like me, every video is like a masterclass. My wife on the other hand who sees all of the Amazon/eBay purchases, she's not your biggest fan.
Christoph von Dohnányi is my go-to on this one--he and the Cleveland forces really nail the first movement's darkest and most powerful moments! I'm curious whether it was well regarded at the time of its release and how it was understood to stack up against Davis/Concertgebouw.
Ditto
It was very well regarded, and its great. As a set of 7-9 it's better than Davis.
Dohnanyi is also my go to 7th. It is as much the balance in the first movement as anything else, and the horns are drowned out near the end as the frequently are.
I would never have guessed Davis to be the reference for Dvorak's 7th. My first exposure to Dvorak's 7th live was with Cleveland on tour with Maazel a few years after Szell's death. That was truly thrilling and provided the necessary kick in the pants for me to seek out Szell's earlier recording. Honestly, I imagined Szell to be the reference, but I'm willing to give Davis a try. Thanks Dave for highlighting a lesser known reference. If you hadn't, there's almost no chance I would have encountered it. Take care!
Szell should have been, but he didn't have the reputation that he later acquired.
I would never have guessed Colin Davis was the reference recording of a Dvorak symphony. Thanks, I'll get it.
Have the Monteux and The London Symphony on London/Decca recording in my collection. You are right, it is one of the best. Will listen to Davis's recording, but I don't think it will change my mind. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. THANKS DAVE !!!
Roll over.
bow "WOW" !!!! yuk yuk
A great performance, although I retain great affection for the recording that introduced me to the piece- Monteux with the London symphony.
That was my introduction as well.
My sense was that Monteux was the reference, but I can't confirm it.
Very interesting, I would have never guessed that C. Davis would be the reference, I always thought the consensus is the Monteux Decca version. They are both great recordings tough, don't get me wrong, I am not saying Davis is bad.
I can't wait for the video on Vaughan Williams symphony cycles. From what I read on the topic, it should probably be either Handley or Previn. Everybody seems to agree that Previn has some fabulous individual recordings, but probably lacks a bit in the consistency category, so on the whole I think Handley is the consensus right now. His cycle, while still not perfect (as you pointed out in some of your videos, you have to really crank up the volume in order to enjoy it fully), always seems to be brought up when talking about these pieces and most people say it is their favorite one overall. Also it is more widely available, being in the Warner Vaughan Williams collector's edition, while Previn seems to not be in print for quite some time (I really hope RCA would reissue it soon, the Slaktin set too, but my hopes are not high). One cycle that kind of shocked me is not the reference is Boult's, but that is because he did two of them and people always argue witch is better - some say the Warner set is superior because of the great stereo sound, others like the Decca one, they argue it's more exiting. So yeah, my bet is either Handley or Previn, Previn being the original reference, maybe overshadowed by Handley when it came out. Anyway, that is my take on the topic, I would be very interested in your definitely more educated opinion, Vaughan Williams is one of my favorite composers, certainly the greatest British symphonist (Bax is great too, but not nearly as well known and I would argue his main strength is in the tone poems), so I think a video about his symphonies would be very appreciated. Thank you for all of the great work, I love this new series, exploring the general consensus in a field, that for many is totally subjective is a great idea that really adds a lot to the value of this already terrific channel!
Out of the dozens of performances I own & love (including the Davis) my abiding love is Neumann's analogue recording with the Czech Phil.
Yes! Just after the fall of the "iron curtain" I went for a city trip to Prague! There were recordshops ( "Supraphone") on nearly every corner. And most of them sold LPs and CDs of Neumann and the Czech Phil.! I bought a lot, because they were so cheap. They are fantastic!
Wholeheartedly agree. Davis puts across the febrile, changeable nature of the music better than just about anyone; the Concertgebouw cover themselves in glory.
Am I the only one who fell in love with Carlos Païta's Dvorak 7 and suddenly realized I was in a Païta cult?
Paita was strongly recommended in the 1980s but he had his own label and the recording was very difficult to get hold of. I eventually managed to get it and it was good. No Amazon in those days!
Most exciting renditions of the third (though faster than I’m used to) and fourth movements I’ve ever heard.
My intro to Dvorak 7th was Szell back around 1960. I'm not sure there were too many other choices at the time. But WQXR played it and that's how I heard it and asked my mom to buy it for my 10th birthday. So, for me, it's my reference...and one of the better versions.
What? Who dares to be condescending towards Dvořák? Anyhow, Concertgebouw with Colin. Grand stuff indeed
Your recommendation does surprise me.
I have a great affection for
Szell/CO and
Neumann/CPO.
I’ve never warmed to the Kertesz/LSO Seventh Symphony
For me, it comes down to how the finale is handled. Does the symphony achieve tragedy or is it triumphant. And in the case of this truly great symphony, I like it both ways. So I retain multiple copies of it for this reason and listen to whichever according to my mood.
Neither tragedy nor triumph. More like resolute defiance and the sense of a struggle that will continue.
What a symphony! Was listening to Kubelik and Berlin’s recording earlier
OT. Dave, gave you ever reviewed the Sony Peter Serkin The Complete Album Collection? It's miraculously still available, although it was issued in 2019. I have his six disc Mozart, but I'm curious about the rest.
I suppose I should do it! Thanks for the suggestion.
I'd say that the orchestra does most of the heavy lifting in this one. Their playing is so intelligent and spontaneous at the same time.
I too remember this recording coming out and it made, quite rightly, a real splash! Personally, my go-to is the later Charles Mackerras' LPO (on the now defunct EMI Eminence label) - I just find it a bit more taut and compelling than Davis' to my ears, but no doubt Davis' earlier recording is still a significant reference for this piece.
Mackerras is terrific but it never had the distribution or attention.
I saw Ivan Fischer do a wonderful Dvorak 7th with his Budapest orchestra. I listened to the Monteux on vinyl today, which is so good. I always liked the Dohnanyi. By the way, I think you're a dead ringer for Dvorak.
Conducted this with my University Orchestra....it is HARD.....much harder technically than Brahms 4th (which we also did)....
Do you consider 7 to be “greater” than New World? As an enlightened amateur, I’d have guessed the later. If it is a greater work, is there a musical reason why?
I don't think it's helpful or necessary to say one is "greater" than the other.
I am a layperson, but the Ninth is overplayed (though I never tire of hearing it) , and the Eighth Symphony doesn't follow classical form as strictly. Also, the Seventh is darker and dark minor key symphonies are often considered greater than happier/less dark symphonies.
This is all so interesting to me. As a kid I used to discuss the beauty of classical music with my father, OBM. Dave, your site brings me back to the happiest moments of my childhood with my father.
I imprinted on Bernstein's 1963 Dvorak 7th, which if I'm recalling correctly was Dave's choice for the best version. Why didn't that become the reference?
It wasn't my choice for best but it was up there. It didn't become a reference because no one knew about it, for some reason.
Couldn't agree more. I am curious what set the CD cover your using for display comes from. Looks like an original jacket cover.
It is.
Interesting, thanks. What box set is it from? Or is it a singleton?
Heh. I would have thought Szell.
I would like to know why the 7th is his masterpiece. For me, the 8th was always my favorite (except when I just listen to the 9th). I love Dvorak - and of course the 7th is excellent - but why it is superior?
Because the 7th has balance. The 8th is kind of all over the place, though still a masterpiece, of course.
The 8th is like Beethoven's pastoral. Its beautiful in form but it's not the meat and potatoes like the 7th and 9th
What box set it that particular issue from?
It is in the Colin Davis Philips box, and Also the Philips Analog box. I just realized I have two copies of it!
@@jegog. Thank you!
Dvorak has not been lucky in digital, the seventh in particular.
What do you think of Iván Fischer's 2009 recording with the Budapest band?
@@horacenyc492 I've been unecessarily dismissive in my comment. I have listened to many versions of the 7th, and I just can't find one that pleases me in every regard, one that I could say: "yep, this is the one!", as I have for all other Dvorak symphonies.
At them moment, I would say that Mackerras' on Signum is my favorite one, though the sonics are a step below some others, with Anguelov having beautiful strings and orchestral textures, but simply lacking power at moments (as if I'm listening to a big chamber orchestra) and Flor on BIS for the recording quality, but a completely different feel to the symphony.
For Fischer's, it's a matter of balance between the different parts of the orchestra, and I feel the strings are to far back, boxed in, and lacking treble (I have the same problem with his other Channel Classics recordings).
I must say that I do 90% of my listening though headphones, so I am more sensitive to certain aspects of a recordings that may or may not show on speakers.
@WyldRage I personally like very much Mackerras' recording of the 7th on the defunct EMI Eminence label with the LPO. Is the Signum one with the Philharmonia? I unfortunately don't know it.
@@curseofmillhaven1057 Yes, it's with the Philharmonia. I haven't heard the one with the LPO. I know the LPO label has rereleased the 8th, but not 7 or 9.
@@WyldRageThanks for that - I'll try and check the Signum out. I think the LPO performances of the 8th & 9th you mentioned, on their own label, are live versions. The EMI Eminence 7th I know (which was coupled with fine 9th too) is a digital studio recording. I think it's been deleted sadly - always find it rather wonderful.