Left Behind? (A Conversation on Eschatology) | Theocast
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Jon and Justin have a discussion on views of eschatology and how it has affected modern biblical interpretation. Do historical Dispensational views contradict the clear teaching of Scripture on the atoning work of Christ? Is one's view on eschatology a measure of orthodoxy? Should our views of eschatology drive the rest of our theology, or is it the other way around?
Semper Reformanda: Jon and Justin talk in more depth about eschatology and hermeneutics. What should guide us in formulating our views on eschatology?
Resources:
Our episode on "Is Your Theological System Any Good?" • Is Your Theological Sy...
"A Case for Amillennialism" by Kim Riddlebarger amzn.to/36oa02d
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#eschatology #premillennialism #endtimes
Thank you again brothers for handling these subjects boldly with grace .
Thanks for the encouragement!
Listening from Australia 🇦🇺, great expository thanks.
I have come to realize when people talk on eschatology being so many views it really is a conversation in futility . God has the perfect interpretation
Excellent! I was a pre mill for many years but studying the Bible for many years I have come around to only one Second Coming and that the millennium is a figurative amount of years! Great job breaking it down
Thanks!
If you can read Revelation 20 and make it Amill or post mill you can pretty much make the Bible say whatever you desire it to say. There is literally no way possible for it to have been worded and teach premill. The first 2 centuries of the chruch fathers (those actually taught by the Apostles and their disciples were UNIVERSALLY pre mill.
@@Orange6921not true actually. The early church consisted of premil and amil views. None were dispensational.
@@chrisjohnson9542 You don;t need the early chruch to see basic dispensations in the Bible, all you need is to open your Bible and read it. Why on earth would the early church be focused on it when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD the the Jews had already entered world wide diaspora.
@@chrisjohnson9542 You don't need the early chruch to see basic dispensations, all you need is to open your Bible and read it. Read Ezekiel 36-37, Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12-14 and similar chapters and tell us when these were fulfilled if there are no dispensations.
Great discussion.
New subscriber here. Thanks for the help with this and reformed theology in general.
Thank you🙏🏼
Good video. You guys should do one on dispensationalism.
We have! Search theocast dispensationalism
czcams.com/video/sN55OsdqNoM/video.html
Yes. It’s a hope! Not a sight.
A Hope until He comes.
Then it’s no longer a Hope.
We live by faith.
Faith brings Hope.
When faith or hope are not needed when He comes.
Love will last forever.
THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE!
One of the key things that Jesus taught about who transitions into the Kingdom is, "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!"
Yes I noticed there were no scripture mentioned. Revelations talks about the rapture and when it happens
What definition of “rapture” are you using?
I would truly love to know your opinions on Dr Barry Awe. I’ve learned a TON from his teachings. Yes he definitely is looking for our blessed hope, and the fact that turns people away is kinda crazy to me, bc Christ died to GIVE us this hope and you have people that are saying it’s wrong to look and search for it and that is simply not true.
He gave it to us and he said the Holy Spirit will guide us into ALL truth.
The point is, if YOU BELIEVE what Christ did for you on the cross. You won’t be left behind.
So just BELIEVE.
The Scriptural definition of the BLESSED HOPE is CHRIST APPEARING AT THE RESURRECTION! Not some secret manufactured 'rapture'
The Halloween house😂😂 i drove van loads of teens every year🤷♀️😂
Id like to see Arnold Fruchtenbaum and theocast on the same stage.
I didn't even grow up in a Christian home so I am still learning and I often feel confused.
"Amillennial" does NOT mean taking "a negative position" on the millennium, or that there is no millennial reign.
Rather, Amillennialists take a positive position on a millennial reign of Christ, and believe that it is not a literal 1K year period of time between His ascension to heaven and His return.
In other words, Amillennialism believes Christ is reigning now in the "millennium" between His first and second comings.
"For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet." 1 Cor 15:25
@@JudeOneThree AMEN HE IS!!
Love the content, however how do you feel about hell being fear motivation?
I would love a video about how the church and Israel relate. I grew up dispensational, but I have been examining covenant theology. Eschatology is a huge difference between the two, but I think a more important difference is how the two deal with Israel.
Where in the Bible would you see this as a priority? I heard my whole life this was important, but the Bible doesn’t seem to place this priority as do the dispensationalist.
@@THEOCAST That's what I'm wrestling with. Dispensationalist place a lot of emphasis on the nation of Israel, making it completely distinct from the church. Whereas covenant theologians, seem to say that Israel and the church are one. Simply put, why is the emphasis on Israel wrong?
Where is this emphasis in the text?
@@daltonvetter3677Basically you need to understand what Christian Zionism is. Christian Zionism.places ALL the emphasis on the modern State of Israel which is completely unscriptural.
Zionism, both Jewish and Christian wish to push their agenda and narrative that the forming of the modern state of Israel is part of a 'divine timeline' . Presbyterians holding to the original Reformed view dismiss this notion as being entirely unscriptural. Jesus said to the Jews "The Kingdom shall be TAKEN FROM YOU and GIVEN TO A NATION BRINGING FORTH THE FRUITS". Nowhere in scripture does it say anywhere the Jewish nation shall reform literally but it DOES SAY the Dispersed Lost Tribes of Israel will be regathered under Christ in the New Covenant and be redeemed fulfilling all the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the 12 Tribes of Israel.. Only one people have fulfilled those promises in the last 2000 years of the Kingdom of God being established on the earth by Christ at the time of his Crucifixion and Resurrection in 30AD and they are the Western Protestant Christian Nations of the world. FACT.
Further to this one needs to understand the 3 definitions of who Israel is.
1. Israel is the modern nation state called Israel and the Jewish religious body as a whole. Jews today comprise 90% Ashkenazi Jews and 10% Sephardic besides converts eg many other races such as Black and coloured races, Caucasian and Asian ect
2. Israel is the Body of Christ ie the Church and the elect.
3. Israel was formed in the New Testament from the remnant of believing Israel who formed the basis for recovenanted Israel in the New Covenant. To them were added the 'Gentiles' or the Greek 'ETHNOS' meaning NATIONS who were the dispersed and lost Tribes of Israel who inhabited the Greek speaking world and beyond into Europe. These people eventually.formed the modern Christian nation states and Christian monarchies of Western Protestant Christendom. This does not mean every member of a nation is saved but that their constitutions and governance are based on the Bible and Christ as King and Messiah over them.
The main focus and substance of Scripture is the Lord Jesus Christ who God used to unite all peoples - Jews and Gentiles to create one man. There is no distinction now before God as the Apostle Paul says in Romans. Why? Because of the Lord Jesus Christ!
Check out Partial Preterist view.
Not very good eschatology
I get confused about the difference between an optimistic amil and a postmil person. It seems that the practical theology implications on whether it's possible to see a visible cultural sanctification, with ups and downs, that progressively creates a society influenced by God's Law, is a fundamental connection to one's practical theology and how one interprets maturity among God's people, from eschatology.
Also, have you guys read "He Shall Have Dominion" by Gentry? If so, any opinion on weaknesses in the argument or interp of history, according to your view?
In light of this, Help me understand Daniel's 70th week.
I find the title "reformed" very arrogant. To assign the reformation to only Calvin & his followers. Staggering.
But mostly I find those who call themselves reformed, are only partially reformed. They usually need to reform more of their Roman Catholic dogma.
I'm having trouble finding a church that is not a dispensational "pre wrath" pre trib church. I found one but they seem to add burdens on men that seem very legalistic. Is there a way i can reach out to you guys that i can know you will get my message. I dont want to give out my location on here. I am several cities away from Springhill.
as well have i, however keep going in obedience to god and that he will feed your soul. iam working through this as well in obedience to him.
@@dwaynejohnson4662 i posted this 7 months ago and all but forgot i wrote it. Since then i have found a good place to stay.
I've never in my life understood the need to divide up over rapture views. IMO that is just incredibly silly and spiritually immature but so many seem to do it.
Already returned in AD70. All things fulfilled.
Matt 24:30 is what? A 2nd coming in the 1st century?? Not on your life!!!! Matt. 23 is your starting point with Jesus indictment of the covenant breakers from the 1st century with His 7 woe oracles . That renegade generation was going down in the same way as Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Edom and Jerusalem the harlot, in 70 a d. This coming from Matt.24:30 is the judgement upon the apostate Jews in 1st century Jerusalem, nothing to do with a 2nd coming. The Jewish civilization ended in 70 a.d.but the cosmos continues on!!!! The White Throne Judgement, future!!! The separation of the sheep and the goats, future. The resurrection of the dead and the very much alive saints at His future coming. The marriage supper of the Lamb. All future!!!!. Get off that hyper preterist heresy train!!!! It's not going anywhere!!!;
Clear as mud.
Restart at 23:22
Everyone has their views and i think its fine and can see why they think what they think. Personally i still think pretrib rapture. I think we wont see God's wrath poured upon the earth. And the several bride-groom parables show parallels how Christ sees the tribulation. Even down the the not knowing "the day nor hour"
the reason why jesus doesnt know the day nor hour is because he drawing parallels to ancient jewish weddings. After the initial proposal, the bridegroom goes to the fathers house to prepare a place for the couple, when the father feels like the place is prepared, the bridegroom grabs the bride and then they have the wedding and feast for 7 days. Likewise Jesus's proposal was on the Cross to those who believed in him, before he left he said he was going to prepare a place for us, and now we wait and prepare for his return so that the we get our glorified bodies(wedding cermony) and we remain with him for 7 years during the tribulation (7 day feast). Jesus often drew parallels to a wedding and we're still waiting on the father to tell jesus when its time for him to whisk us away. Just a lil fun fact. People like to quote the verse alot to either say Jesus isnt God or to disprove the rapture but context is always important. We dont know the day nor hour but we'll know the season since he left us signs to look for when the time is near. We're not left in the dark because we're children of light. Personally i think we can actually see the stage being set for the tribulation. With everything going on in the world i think its a matter of time that the lord will come for his people. I try not to watch watchmen channels because while i get it gets people excited for the lords return as well as informs people of the madness the world is actually going through, often times people get too hyped about a date and then they day passes and nothing happens. It creates a boy who cried wolf scenario, where when it truely comes people would already stop looking because they exhausted themselves. That being said we can definitely feel like the time is nigh and tribulation Is approaching. Thats enough for me to be excited for the lord. I dont know when hes coming but on the off chance we're all wrong the most important thing is that we focus on getting people saved. So even if we sit though the judgment, we can be assured of our place in the kingdom. So whether i come to christ now or later by sword, i can die knowing that i will be in a glorified body in the kingdom regardless. And im at peace with that. So whether or not we have the rapture right, it doesnt matter. Salvation is the one thing we CANNOT risk getting wrong.
What Biblical teaching exactly does a belief in a literal thousand year reign of Christ contradict? I'm sincere in asking. You said it contradicts something but I don't think you ever explained what. Thanks!
It comes later in the episode, the sacrificial system being reinstated goes against Hebrews
It also contradicts the biblical teaching that Christ is on his throne, seated at the right hand of the Father, and reigning now - with all authority in heaven and on earth.
Despite Premillennialist's verbal affirmation of Christ's present reign, they actually believe that Christ is NOT reigning now, at least not fully on earth, but will reign when He comes to set up His kingdom at the start of the literal 1K year Millennium.
This becomes evident when they refer to Satan now as in charge on earth because he is "the prince of the power of the air"...until he is bound, thrown into a pit, and locked up for that literal 1K years when Christ sets up His kingdom and actually reigns.
@@JudeOneThree Christ indeed shall rule & reign HERE ON EARTH some day...the period known as the millennial reign. He currently does not rule the earth from up in heaven...
*Job **19:25* "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:"
*Zech 14:4* "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives..."
*Vs 9* then goes on to say, that when He DOES do so, "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."
*Matt **6:10* "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
*Rev 5:10* "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
*=====>* Nothing "figurative" about Him ruling/reigning here on earth, and nothing "figurative" about the time period (1,000 yrs) that He will reign.
@@Kman. So, Christ DOESN’T actually reign now, putting all His enemies under His feet (1 Cor 15:25)? Is that because He was only give SOME authority on earth (Mt 28:18)?
@@JudeOneThree
*II Cor 4:4* "In whom the _god of this world_ hath blinded the minds of them which believe not..." BUT...
*Ps 2:8* "...I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH for thy possession."
*Rev 20:4,* "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ A THOUSAND YEARS." *=====>* Clearly, this all takes place HERE ON EARTH.
*Matt **25:31* “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, *_THEN_* SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE of his glory:”
And what I see to be one of the most CONVINCING passages that reflect our Lord's physical reign here on earth is found in *Zechariah **14:16**ff,* "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."
*Rev 20:7* "And when the THOUSAND YEARS are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the NATIONS which are _IN_ the FOUR QUARTERS OF THE EARTH..."
There's a number of prophesies that have yet to be fulfilled, *DURING* the millennial reign of Christ, and should He NOT reign here on earth, well...you u/stand.
All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*
This was not a very good discussion of eschatology, perhaps they wanted to be brief and superficial. Many amills believe the millennium is the church age, Christ is reining now. Not much on postmill or preterism which many in the postmill position hold. You need to do your own research. R C Sproul has a short 8 part series on utube. Bruce Gore has a 60 part lesson on the book of revelation that is excellent. Thanks guys for your discussion.
I love R.C.Spoul and Bruce Gore.!!!!
So all those numbers and measurements, details about the temple in Ezekiel are for nothing? They remind me of the details of the tabernacle.
They pretty much tear Ezekiel 36-48 out of their Bible and ignore them completley. As well as about 30-40 other chapters of prophecy on this. They don't know what to do with them so they just argue none of them mean what they say, which means they never meant anything at all.
Good video. No one knows the day or hour. BUT we do know he returns "after the tribulation of those days..." The abomination of desolation by the Beast, man of lawlessness, has not happened yet, so at this point his coming is not imminent. Thanks.
Very true!
As is your own (very popular) scholarly opinion.. to be fair.. We actually don't 'know that we know' that the season of the Man of Lawlessness/The Beast hasn't happened yet. Just saying, my friend.. I DO lean your way, though. I hold to the 'already' and also 'not yet' approach in all exegetical safety. Not only to your point of delayed return, but also I am of the belief that we've got 'a ways to go' in living out being the 'spotless bride' (in fuller effect) thereby further affecting the world for the gospel while we're here patiently awaiting the return. There will definitely be some sort of unique spike in tribulation before He returns in body, to that we can agree, as well, though I don't hold at all to the pessimistic eschaton view of the premillennial/dispensationalist camp, just as an example. Even still.. even so... Come Lord Jesus! Come like a thief in the night.. show us Your glory!
@@jonharris722 Thanks for your reply. I pretty much agree. But the Roman pendants placed in the courtyard of the temple in 70 AD does not fulfill the prophecy of the Man of Lawlessness actually taking his seat in the temple, saying he is God (as Daniel also alludes to). Plus, there is no indication that Titus was the man of Lawlessness. So I would have to conclude that it is yet future (if that was what you were thinking). There are some already/not yet events that do apply, like Christ's kingdom coming. God bless.
He returns "after the tribulation", but that is at least 7 yrs AFTER the rapture has taken place.
"Imminence" simply means that He COULD come @ any moment, as there is no biblical prophecy yet to be fulfilled.
@@Kman. I just saw it was you Kman. I'm still waiting for your reply on my last reply to you.
In John 3 Jesus explained to Nicodemus that He was the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul explained that more in Galatians.
Both dispensationalists and non dispensationsalists universally agree on that. We all agree those in Christ are ONE BODY and the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith. Where the disagreement comes in is Gods plan for the still NOT in Christ nation of Israel in the coming Kingdom age.
@@Orange6921 Good point. I've got some thoughts on that. First of all, the Israel Paul was talking about in Romans 9 to 11 was not todays so called Israel. Today's version didn't exist when Paul wrote that in around 57 AD. Put ourselves in his shoes and time and place. What Israel was he talking about? It was the House of Israel that had split off from the House of Judah 1000 years before that had been taken captive by Assyria 700 years before and never returned. By Paul's day they were scattered all over Europe in various groups under different names. Jesus told Hid disciples to go get them and remarry them under the New Covenant that became available after His redemptive work. Once remarried they became the Christian Born Again Nations of Europe and beyond. They were the treasure hidden in the field in Matthew 13:44. Their redemption HAS BEEN glorious just as Paul predicted. Overcomers from all the Born Again shall rule and reign with Christ for the coming 1000 year reign of Christ. Make sense? Were these the Prodigal Son? These are the clay pot in Jeremiah 18 that God fashioned into what we think of as the Church.
I'm not going to go out and purposely incur Or pull-down. Abuse on myself. In some sick masochistic form.of flogging Just to prove that I'm righteous and I'm living for God. I understand In the Christian Life Christ gives us victories and there will be persecutions.
When the victory's come, I'm going to enjoy them They are my strength. And when the Persecutions come I'm going to consider.
It for the cause of Christ. I think this should have been the distinction you made. But I was surprised you didn't make that distinction 😮 . It was Expect no comfort, & All loss,,😮.
The pre-trib view is not "fear based." It is "blessed hope" based. If you are not saved then fear is indeed a good thing. It means you are awake to your condition. If you are saved it is indeed a "blessed hope."
Salvation is a "blessed hope." However, Jon and Justin did a great job explaining that the Pre-mil way of getting people there often involves scaring them that they may be "left behind" when some eventual rapture (usually, pre-trib) happens. Hence, why the pre-trib view may be considered "fear based."
If you believe in a pre-trib rapture, it might be good to prepare yourself to go through at least some tribulation. Churches all over the world and throughout history have experienced tribulation. I am in a Bible study with pre-trib believing women who are convinced the rapture is going to happen any day because the world is getting so bad. I am concerned they will be very disillusioned if we get persecuted here in America for our Christian beliefs.
@@janettelewis6681 prosperity followed by suffering often leads fear mongering we need to be talking about how great Jesus’s return will be not scaring people into the faith
@@ulty1472 I wasn’t talking about people coming to faith. I was talking about American Christians becoming disillusioned when/if persecution comes here because they believe they are going to be raptured out before things get bad. Their faith may be shaken. I agree, that we persevere no matter how bad things may get in this life, even facing martyrdom, because of the blessed hope that awaits. I disagree with you here though: a fear of being cast into hell by God as a consequence for our sin is a good reason to trust in Jesus for salvation.
@@janettelewis6681 ahh i understand what your saying now
You complicate things. Please listen to Gary DeMar. He gets to the point and makes it crystal clear.
This is the kind of religion that makes it incredibly difficult for me to trust Him to the forgiveness of my sins and as my Lord and Savior; I can see giving your life to Him and trusting Him on that basis, but this End Times, Last Days, Tribulation and Rapture bull is just too much for me to handle (which is why I cannot listen to my mother's favorite TV preacher, Ralph Sexton, Jr. of Trinity Baptist Church in Asheville, NC; he's all about that).
They'll be left behind alright, but they'll be left dead.
Destroyed them all the Scripture says.
See Luke 17:26-30.
Jesus said where ever the carcus is there shall the eagles shall be gathered. Why will they be gathered? To feast on the dead bodies. The Scripture is clear.
See Matthew 24:28;
Luke 17:37.
The truth is there will be no one left alive on this earth.
All the righteous will be taken away, and all the wicked will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming
See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
Luke 17:26-30 is a picture of the chaos ensued from the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem in 70 a.d. The believers were told by Jesus to flee to the mountains. Those that sought refuge in a fortified Jerusalem were doomed. So where the carcass is? Jerusalem!!!! 1.1 million souls perished in that great tribulation. Not gonna happen again Matt.24:21.
Your speaking of what happened in 70
a.d. There were plenty of rotting flesh for the voltures to feast on!!!! The survivors of this 1st century calamity were the Christians who remembered what Jesus had said 40: years earlier," when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies flee to the mountains"and they did!!; to Pella, and not one died!!!! This is a picture of the jewish apocalypse in 1st century Jerusalem, the "wrath of the Lamb" Rev.6:16!!!! Nothing to do with us!!!;
There is no scripture in Revelation that says there will be a 3rd temple.
Where's the passage in Revelation that says there will not be a third temple? 😱
Where can i email or adk a question
if the 1000 is literal then the 10 days in prison must be as well.
I agree that one's eschatology colors their view of Scripture (we see that in the OT hope of the saints), but you guys need to read/think more of what has been said in the Old that in the New says HAS been fulfilled. The book of Revelation isn't so much about what is to come but what CAME and was done through Christ. Israel - which was God's bride, became such a whore that she urged the murder of the Son in the Vineyard. We're presently enjoying the marriage supper of the Lamb in communion 🍷🍞 and that will last into eternity.
P.S. I'd love to hear you explain how Christ will return JUST LIKE he was taken up so that EVERY EYE can physically see Him around the entire world? 🤔
Great Great Grandfather's Letter
Through your rummaging around inside the old family home place, you come across an old letter from your great great grandfather back when he was in WW1. The year is 1917 in the waning years of that terrible war. And he writes to his sweetheart from somewhere in Europe; “When the war is over, we will start our family.” So, to whom does the personal pronoun “we” directly apply to? Him and his sweetheart! Very clear. Right?
So why is it when the Apostle Paul writes to his “children” in the Lord and says: “We who are alive and remain,” suddenly means generations and thousands of others that he is not even writing to, nor are even alive yet, nor that he even has any yet knowledge of? Based on what authority do you do that? And why isn't that an unbiblical and a false doctrine? Well, it is! Ya got to have some kind of biblical authority to do such a thing!
"There is nothing in Ezekiel that let's us know that it's part of the millennial reign"
Ezekiel 43:6-9 states that this period is after a time God judges and kills the kings of Israel and rules forever on a throne in Jerusalem, which sounds awfully like the millennium :D
Basically, the objections presented here boil down to two things:
1. The passages that mention atonement from Ezekiel 40-48
2. The waters flowing from the temple mentioned in Ezekiel 47 and the similarities found in Revelation 22
1. I don't know any premillennialist who would believe that the sacrifices presented in Ezekiel would be a replacement for the work of Christ, this line of thinking kind of comes across as a strawman, if I'm honest. Hebrews 10:4 clearly states that the sacrifices of the old testament cannot take away sins. Jesus even says that we will eat and drink the feast of Passover with his disciples till the kingdom to come (Matthew 26:29). The Passover is described as being celebrated in (Ezekiel 45:21) . How can there be sacrifices which are consumed in the new heavens and new earth where there is no death? Clearly, these feasts are memorial just as the lord's table currently is (see 1 Corinthians 11:2), so where the feasts listed in the OT. All that being said the Amillenialist also has to give an answer to these passages, which was not addressed in this podcast. Would love to know your thoughts on these passages.
2. This can't be describing the same event as Ezekiel 47:8 mentions the river flowing into the sea, while the events described in Revelation 22 are during the new heavens and the new earth where there is no sea (Rev 21:1)
I do want to thank you guys for bringing these up because it did get me back into the word to refresh my memory and has overall strengthened my conviction of the truth of premillennialism!
If anyone has any questions, I'd gladly answer them here :)
God bless your studies of His word!
thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/48985
@@THEOCAST Thanks for linking the article I read it but it still did not address what the purpose of Ezekiel 40-48 is other than simply describing the new heavens and new earth which this can’t be as per point 1 & 2 above (Sacrifices require death, and the river in Ezekiel runs into the sea when there is no sea in the new heavens and earth).
As for the other points brought up in the article they make great discussion points:
“They assume that at the second coming the nation of Israel will be restored to an earthly prominence and will reign with Christ upon the earth for literally a thousand years. “ ------ Yup, just like Romans 11:25-27 and Acts 1:6-7 states :)
A careful reading of Revelation 19 demonstrates that it is impossible for us to currently be in the Millennium, even if that Millennium is an allegorical, unspecified period of time between Jesus’ ascension and His return.
Revelation 19:17-21 describes the beast and false prophet being captured and thrown into the lake for fire before the Millennium in Rev 20.
After the Millennium, the Devil is described as being thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are Rev 20:10.
Therefore if we are in the millennial age, then the beast and false prophet must currently be in the lake of fire.
This can’t be the case as Paul describes the revealing of the man of sin (the beast) to be a future event, who is destroyed by the coming of Christ in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
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“They believe the temple and the Old Testament sacrifices will be restored. “ ------ Yup, just like it says in Ezekiel 40-48, Zechariah 14. Allegory must be dealt with careful as it can be used to prove any theological position. Is Jesus literally returning? The full preterist would say no, using the exact same logic: “How can a sword come out of His mouth?”. Daniel took the 70 year prophesy of Jeremiah literally (Daniel 9:2), we should approach prophesy with the same presupposition.
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“The author of Hebrews states that the final and perfect sacrifice for sins has already been offered (Heb. 9:24-28).“ ------ The writer of Hebrews, Paul, also said to keep the Passover (1 Corinthians 5:8 ). The sacrifices were not only ritual, they provided an actual meal for the participants to enjoy. That is why we celebrate the Lord’s Table/Passover to remember His death till He comes. When He comes we will still be celebrating this meal, but from a new perspective, just like He promised in Matthew 26:29.
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“Ezekiel's and John's prophesied temple shouldn't be interpreted literally because there are too many dissimilarities between it and an earthly Jerusalem temple and even with Jerusalem itself.” ------ This assumes that the temple Ezekiel describes has the same purpose as the OT temple. This idea is not communicated in the text. Also the temple itself was always a representation of a greater reality, see Isaiah 66:1-2. Jerusalem throughout the scriptures is described as God’s holy hill, Zion, so the point about a mountain in the article does not follow.
You might not find this convincing and that’s fine, hopefully those reading will search the scriptures and be convinced in their own minds. Also it is worth mentioning that pre-trib and pre-mil are not the same thing. I too reject the left behind books.
God bless!
As far as I know, the historic faith in the Church Fathers is Amilenial. Dispensationalism is a new innovation.
Actually if you did a little more research you'd find historic premilennialism the prominent early church view
@@ttbministry agreed
the dispensational view and especially the rapture today is going the way of the dinosaur.
Exactly, people are gonna figure this out and eventually gonna leave this dispensational futurist belief system in the trash can.
Who are "left behind" at the Return of Christ, and who are "taken"?
Lk. 17:35-37, "One will be taken and the other left.” And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."
Jesus' disciples ask, "where are they TAKEN, Lord?".
Jesus answers: to their DEATHS.
Those "Left Behind," then, are the Saints who are "left behind" after the slaying of all the wicked who are living at the time of the 2nd Advent.
The "great supper of God" (Rev. 19:17-21), where the "birds...to eat the flesh [of all the wicked who are slain at the 2nd Advent]...and the birds were gorged with their FLESH.".
At the 2nd Advent, the wicked are slain.
Dead saints in Christ are resurrected to Glory.
Living saints are transformed to Glory.
All the saints are "caught up together to meet the Lord in the air".
Q. Where do all the saints from all time go at the 2nd Advent, when they've been Glorified?
A. To Heaven.
For the 1,000 years (the Millennium), the Glorified Saints will reign with Christ IN HEAVEN.
The earth will be void and desolate of all life during the Millennium; Satan and his angels will be "bound" on a desolate earth for the Millennium with no one left to deceive, manipulate, lie to, or inhabit.
Until the 1,000 years are over.
Questions?
Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
What a surprise. An Amil Calvinist at 29min trying to claim sole ownership of the sufficiency of Christ's death & resurrection
Ok here is a question.
Is the day the of the harpazzo the same same day as when heaven an earth will pass away?
If not then, that means that no one knows the day or hour that heaven and earth will pass away.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark.
Why would he go from saying you’ll never know this, but here are a bunch of clues?
Enoch was a representation of the church and he knew exactly when he was leaving.
And then you have…
O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? [4] A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
Right here he is pointing out that we CAN and SHOULD discern the signs of the times.
I’m not saying we should have it exact, but when you look back at the gentiles marriages, even though the bride wouldn’t know the day, she would know that it be roughly about a year, give or take.
She would be given a “ballpark”, but no guarantee on the day.
Lastly I’ll say I think it’s fair to say we are the fig tree generation, bc Israel has NEVER past 80.
They are 73 NOW.
May 14 1948, shall a nation be born in a day?
Israel became a nation.
1947 Roswell, the enemy planted the seed of his big lie.
You also have the woman bathed in the sun with the moon at her feet in 2017 September.
The stench of Satan’s “new world order” is around the corner and there are people who are still unaware that Christ is around the corner too!
People just need to decide what boat they want to be on, while we may have exact answers, I think it’s also fair to say we need stop acting like we don’t know what time it is.
Part of the problem here brother is that modern day Israel is not a theocracy in covenant with God . They are a geopolitical entity . Hebrews tells us the old (Mosaic ) covenant is done away with to make way for the New Covenant. New as in the fulfilled Abrahamic promise fulfilled in Christ . All the promises of God are yes and Amen IN HIM .
13:55 had to endure 7 years without dying. Who taught this man so badly? Anyone would reject such bad teaching
You are not wrong regarding the fact that many dispensationalist live in fear, but you are equally wrong that a lot of them do. Your overview of them is very basic and if you interacted with them you'd know this. I'm kinda surprised that John didn't interject when Justin is pontificating, but maybe this is because he was on the fringes of Baptist theology? Do you think John MacArthur lives in abject fear? As you say, the vast majority of evangelicals believe this and I can assure you they are not living in fear. I say this as someone who has spent most of my life "premil" and is now an amillennialist. I guess you guys don't know what you don't know, but best to put that out there before you go pontificating about it. You are responsible before God, don't darken counsel with words without knowledge.
2 guys talking about dispensationalism with little clue (esp the dude on the right). No wonder he abandoned his dispensationalism he was terribly taught. Stick to what u know fellas. Just a friendly tip from an Aussie Dispensationalist.
A discussion on endtimes with no bible in sight.
Doug Wilson is not a heretic! Go and have a dialogue with him! And stop with your lies.
Dispensationalism is not fear based. This is a total false representation. Guys, stick to a topic u understand.
Jon Graduated from the Master’s seminary with a MDIV. He’s not speaking from speculation but experience and full understanding of the view
@@THEOCAST No - he is speaking from a position of near total ignorance. I am a long term Dispensational preacherr. I did not recognise my theology in his misrepresentations.
What kind of Premill are you?
@@THEOCAST the exact type you spent the entire video attempting and failing to explain & attack. U appeared clueless about dispensationalism. Stick to topics u understand.