Pilot Nosedives His Plane Trying To Save it | West Air Sweden Flight 294
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Discover the chilling account of West Air Sweden Flight 294, a routine cargo flight that turned into a heart-stopping battle for survival. Join us as we delve into the shocking events that unfolded in the skies above Norway. A simple malfunction triggered a series of events, leading to confusion, disorientation, and a fight against all odds. Explore the harrowing story that follows the crew's unexpected response and the relentless struggle to regain control. Unravel the mysteries, witness the tension, and uncover the shocking truth behind this unforgettable aviation tragedy. Buckle up and prepare for a gripping journey through the extraordinary events of West Air Sweden Flight 294.
#aircrashinvestigation
More on Spatial Disorientation:
www.skybrary.aero/articles/sp...
Final Report:
reports.aviation-safety.net/2...
I did plan on the video being dark as it adds to the context of the incident but not as dark as it came out after uploading to CZcams. I’ll have to try to make them lighter than normal in the future and then when it is compressed onto the platform it will then be as intended!
Just for added context the entire incident from noticing the pitch up indication to the crash was only 1 minute 20 seconds!
I hope you found the incident interesting, as I said in the video, It is very easy to make a judgment on an incident when you are not part of it. Many of your judgments so far are completely valid but I make these videos not to scrutinise the actions of other pilots but to give a wider understanding of an incident, giving you a ability to make your own mind up.
Personally, I think anything less dark just wouldn't feel as realistic.
I find I do get a bit critical... Not so much the pilots but the way airplanes are being made these days. I'll try to tone it down in keeping with your approach to these things. :)
Oh dear, Captain didn't immediately cross check with his stand-by attitude indicator on a sudden surprising display on his main AI. Oh dear, he instantly went into full panic mode.
Once again incompotent career pilots who became "pilots" for the money and free travel once again showing that they don't deserve to be pilots nor should be in a cockpit. Career pilots are like machines. They only do what they were taught in standard Conditions. When things go slightly wrong as we see in these videos they panic, over react. And cause a crash themselves. I'm sick of this. Pilots these days become pilots by being taught how to pass certain tests or certification standards. It's rare anyone is a natural born pilot or is just good at it and becomes one because they truly love it. What we have is just a bunch of incompotent career pilots who don't deserve to be in a cockpit at all, in it ONLY for the pay. They treat it like a job and when the job goes slightly wrong, they panic and crash.
This was uncommanded pitch up so checking the standby should have been the first action. The fact the speed did not change was another big clue.
Exactly. Neither your body or the dregs in the coffee cup lie. Whenever an instrument gives a reading that is not expected, the first thing to do is nothing. Then consider all the parameters, along with checking alternative instruments before making any changes. A pilot with his experience on type should have known what speed should have been showing for his throttle settings in level flight.
Panic reaction always ends up the same way.
You are spot on James.
@@wilsjane You are right that the drinks in the coffee cup do not lie! LOL however your body will lie I think it’s called somata graphic illusion ?basically you cannot depend on your sensation however as you say cross check for all the other instruments would have yielded without panicking which was at fault
I think the first officer should have just announced "I have control" and taken over.
Design induced operator error.
I'm _appalled_ that the PIT indicator - which was vital information - was considered "clutter".
It should have been bright red and flashing, too.
This plus an aural warning.
My gosh, I think I would never not confirm with my co-pilot what my instrument was reading. Especially in a dark night with no other conformation for myself. I would think that this would never happen to me, but this is a professional pilot, meaning it could happen to me. Sorry for them. Super, super interesting video. I could use it to give a talk to general entrepreneurs.
That’s why I found this incident so interesting, like you say, the initial actions appear simple, just cross check your instruments. Speak with the Co-Pilot, check the stand by instrument, something. They were professional pilots so their actions appear out of place, what you then have to look at is the physiology behind their actions and how could their reaction to the problem supersede their knowledge and training. Ultimately we’re all human and prone to error and emotion. Yes this incident shouldn’t have happened and it is tragic that it did, but figuring out why is the fascinating part. Thank you for the comment.
It is fantastic, that only very few crashes happen, when thinking that the sky is full of planes, nearly all the time.
The Captain should have checked with the Rate of Climb/descent, AND the ASI, AND the altimeter, AND the back up up ADI. What a shambles!
Fully agree. Unfortunately not all pilots are type-instructors/testpilots/highly experienced in unusual situations
Yes, it is important to FLY the a/c. Is why formation so valuable. No time to think; your body part of the a/c. Is cool!@@pascalcoole2725
I like your videos most (compared to green dot aviation and others) because you're taking a not-so-dramatic approach but a more informative and analytical one. As a pilot myself (PPL rn, studying ATPL atm) looking to learn from accidents & incidents, I love that your videos are a bit more technical, while I think the broad audience still gets what you're talking about. Keep up the good work 👏
That’s great, thank you. I’m with you, there is always so much to learn from these incidents. It’s the main reason I started the channel was to broaden my own knowledge. Good luck with the rest of your ATPL!
Excellent analysis.
This was terrible... nobody knows how one would react until is in the exact situation. R.I.P.
Very true, and thank you.
Well that is true but not entirely true. There's a durth of written psychological test which can give airlines some insight into a pilots critical thinking and analysis ability. Doesnt always prove out, but it is a worthwhile endeavor yet almost no airlines use these tools and they've been around for decades.
I just hate it when there's virtually nothing wrong with a plane, something very small, and the crew fly the plane right into the ground trying to correct it.
It seems to have some things in common with Air France 447. The plane "knew" what was wrong, duplicate or triplicate sensors not agreeing and therefore data unreliable, but it didn't prioritise that and spell it out clearly to both pilots. In both cases it fooled at least one of the crew into taking unnecessary and dangerous action. In the case of AF447 it also confused them with secondary warnings. Looks like poor ergonomics to me.
Excellent video as always! Thank you for this. I found it really interesting to see the ‘bigger’ picture. It’s hard to not just see it a poor judgment from those who should have known better, this is still true but really interesting to see how a human can act in these situations. It was a really interesting point about the acceleration creating the feeling of climbing! Thanks again.
Thank you Josh, it’s never easy to fully understand what was happening at the time. Even after the obvious things, there is still the normal human side of stresses outside of the job or feeling fatigued or unwell. It’s those parts that are harder to quantify on top of the actions or lack of action on a particular incident.
my first time watching your videos, im impressed with your presentation, i will be watching all your videos, i think you did a great job explaining this incident with no nonsense, i look forward to seeing more, thank you for making this
Great, thanks Darren. Welcome!
I don’t understand how this accident could occur. Why did he rely so much on the attitude indicator than the altitude and airspeed gauges. I’m not a pilot but it seems instinctive to question the accuracy of attitude indicator if the altitude and airspeed gauges don’t show any abnormal changes. How hard is it to glance at copilots gauge or at least ask copilot what his attitude indicator is showing?
Good explanation of psychological factors. Great presentation overall!
Thanks :D
Excellent didactic presentation. Keep up the good work!.
Thank you, I’ll try😁
This my first time viewing your channel. Excellent video! I like your content and your style and will subscribe for future content. Please disregard the criticism below about proper greetings and such. We don't need artificially cheerful banter or contrived fraternal salutations to enjoy your work. You asked for our support if we liked the content and closed by thanking us for looking in. More than gracious enough on your part. As to this sad accident, well, it appears as if neither of these pilots was prepared for even something as basic as an instrument malfunction--for which there were multiple backups! What does that say about their training, or lack thereof? In any event, excellent story telling, carry on with all speed!
That’s part of the issue, I do believe both pilots were in a state of shock during at least some part of the incident, that’s usually where training would take over. It all happened so fast (only 1 min, 20 secs) Such a shame!
Sad story, but great video! 👍
Thank you Yuki. It was tragic as it was avoidable.
This reminds me of a similar accident that occurred in either South or Central America on a B737. Only the PIC's PFD was showing spurious information.
In such an event if the information looks peculiar or calls for a response prior to taking any action, first CROSS CHECK!
The standby ADI is closest to the PIC, a quick scan can confirm either a mismatch or display agreement.
It is essential to exercise effective CRM and communicate with your flight colleague, advise them what you are observing prior to simply initiating a response.
Doing so will confirm you are both being shown either conflicting or matching information. Decide on the appropriate action as a team.
Communication is essential to safe flight, it ensures both crew have a matching mental model of the situation, failure to do so startles and confuses one's flying colleague placing them at a monumental disadvantage to achieve an effective support role, in addition to cross checking any subsequent actions.
Maintained situational awareness is paramount and necessitates clear communication, one must never assume one’s colleague is 'on the same page'.
Due to the F/O's confusion over the PIC's actions not only did he swiftly become situationally unaware, he also became tremendously confused and was unable to communicate effectively.
They both failed to clearly state their aircraft’s attitude based upon what information their respective PFD's were telling them, assuming each other was seeing the same information.
It takes only a moment to make use of backup/standby instrumentation which will make all the difference in appropriate actions taken and troubleshooting. It is why they are fitted, it has a purpose other than it being a regulatory requirement! It is also why essential instrumentation is duplicated either side.
Communicate and Cross Check!
A number of incidents and accidents have also occurred as a consequence of unexpected airspeed, be it stalling, over speed or asymmetry, countermeasures were taken before first identifying the source.
Much can be identified by first just LOOKING at control settings and identifying correct positioning before applying what may become futile countermeasures.
A very sad and frustratingly avoidable outcome indeed. G-d rest their souls and bring their loved ones peace/comfort.
Couldn't have said it better!
… I couldn’t have said it even as well- let alone better! 😂
Very true. Hopefully this accident will educate pilots
I feel, the first officer, seeing that the Commanding Pilot was doing something inexplicable by his instruments, should have said "I have control" and tried to control it by his own instruments...
but I am in a warm cozy room... not in a spinning and falling airplane!
Another outstanding presentation, Thanks.
Thank you Mike, I appreciate it.
Great show !
Just recently found your channel. Bloody awesome content mate. Keep it up.
Thanks! Glad you enjoy it.
Amazing channel
Excellent 👍!
one issue that was not addressed I believe, though noted as a factor in a few accidents, is the poor visibility of the secondary/check horizon... on most models, it is quite dark and small to see compared to your primary screen, so that it is much less prominent in your scan unless you make the specific effort to include it.
They should turn a light on in the cockpit I can't see anything o.o
PIT was deemed "clutter"?
Unbelievable.
and i'll bet there were still bunches of _audible_ alarms going off at once as the plane went down...
Obviously NOT the same. But living in Canada, I've done my fair share of driving in blizzards. When you say come out from tree protection into a blizzard on the highway, it's bananas how disorienting a white out is. And that's 2 dimensional. I can't imagine 3 dimensions, AND, the g forces giving you possibly a false feeling of what's happening. Scary stuff.
Very informative video, many thanks. Remind me never to fly. *I have a question: Why didn't the pilot flying ASK the pilot monitoring what HE saw on HIS display, before pitching down?* Wouldn't THAT have been the common sense thing to do? And shouldn't THAT be standard procedure on ALL aircraft at ALL times?
The training of the pilots should be, to teach them communication between them, about the reading on their panel, to configure if they are having the same information
This was my thought exactly. Why didn't the Captain communicate the fact that his ADI was pitching up wildly. This would have given the First Officer the opportunity to state that his ADI was normal and this should then have prompted them to check the standby ADI. Also, another reason why the push toward single pilot operation of large passenger planes is a bad idea.
We didn’t hear anything about this here in the USA
Because realistically it’s irrelevant to the Us, it’s a Canadian made plane in a country most Americans never think of, and wasn’t commercial.
So let’s thank the lovely guy who gives us these videos.
@@EKNYR Hey, that’s me! 😁👍🏼
Enjoyed the video, however, you failed to mention the most important fact of this case. There are three attitude indicators in the 200. If at any time there is a question about the validity of attitude information, the FIRST thing to do is cross check the other two. This obviously was never done, resulting in a sad outcome.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! 🙂 I did mention the 3. Obviously the PIC’s and Co-Pilot’s on their PFD’s and later in the video I show the standby flight instrument which has a attitude indicator on it. I’m thinking by you didn’t watch it to the end..🤔 😁
Good show friend!
Thanks!
feedback:
until 9:03 it was too dark to see what was going on in the c/pit (on my laptop screen ).
I think that there should also be an audio warning of any difference in flight displays.
So sad, two words from the 1st officer would have saved them. My Control.
@@golanheights9000 "My control" means the captain should hand over control of the plane to the FO. In theory, the captain would then stop using erroneous information to fly his plane into the ground, and the FO could then have used his working instruments to recover the plane.
The real question there is if the captain would even hear the call or react to it. He seemed totally gone due to loss of situational awareness.
@@_KRose Agreed. I think "My control" from co-pilot wouldn't of worked, the captain was too far gone into fight/flight mode, tunnel visioned, cognitive biases blocking out any other info not (seemingly) related to the pitch. It's, tbh, a fairly understandable, human reaction: rely on instruments, act quickly to stop a stall, knowing the planes design possibly wouldn't recover from. It's pure survival. With much more training, they'd prolly be safe. I tried quickly searching if the co-pilot would have that button to override person in command's controls, but nothing came up. Guessing not. One of the less egregious accidents (vs/ kids in cabin, aggro captains, drunks, freak outs) but tragic all the same.
Had never thought about the deep stall problem with the engines and yes I would agree that the captain was reacting to that....again a plum bob somewhere in the cockpit would have probably saved the day
I don't know how a pilot is supposed to treat that situation but i find it surprising that a difference in readings is not of vital importance. To me it seems like that should be a major issue, especially when it's then paired with the autopilot disconnecting. It's like the Plane warns the pilot that they need to be flying but then sweeps under the rug the fact that the instruments might be faulty.
-1G is the load limit of CRJ200 with flaps up, even a little more and they might have suffered some structural damage from that. Not that would have changed much, given the havoc in the cockpit, but still worth bringing it up in my opinion.
uhm, Might've a bit tbh there are 100% margin for those negative G's another negative G would start making the plane a scrappiece maybe? written off, but they could've landed, the upset though.... why do you think airbus overtook boeing? 1. boeing is run by MDA's nowadays's and pressured unheard engineers are unheard, airbus has been working on the A320 A330 A340 cncepts and FEP )F;oght Enveloppe Protection systems for 20 years before releasing the A320 onto the testbed. Nowwith Instrument DIsagree, Normal law is still in effect. if Backup and F.O side corresponded correctly with AoA Statics and Pitot and Secundairy pitot data as there are freaking 2 for every seat and 3 for the backups on an A350. imagine... normal law wouldé prevented it to go into an upset at all. and the captain yeah he thought he might be stalling but the speed wasnt bleeding off, that's a fucking sign. neither was alt. I mean When airbus says RETARD RETARD on every landing i mean humans are retards.
Wouldn't it be possible to have on the screen that shows the artificial horizon (attitude indicator) a little window (just like the one that shows the AP status) that displays what the ADI of the other pilot is showing. Again I start wondering about the training these pilots get. If out of level flight my attitude indicator suddenly shows I'm going up but my altitude isn't going up and my speed isn't decreasing and after a down input my ADI shows I'm still going up then the attitude indicator might be in error and I need to check what the corresponding indicators on the other side are showing. I thought the whole idea of having everything redundant is that if one side is defect the other side serves as a control. What is the purpose of having a second attitude indicator and a third standby indicator if those instruments are not checked? In order to see the standby indicator all you need to do is turn your gaze by a few degrees. Check before you act. Is this not trained? Especially in instrument flight. If in situations like this one, reflexes take over even after training what good is that training? Pilots should trust their instrumentS. Plural. If you have more than one of the same type check more than one. Check all of them, then act.
That’s a good point
Many ships do have 'steam gauges' as the backup beside the glass panel.
Maybe airspeed, rate of climb and an artificial horizon are likely a requirement of IFR.
A big plane pilot here will know.
If an effective scan, drills & procedures has been part of the captain's routine then one would expect that same routine to kick in.
It appeared the captaun was unable to conduct emergency procedures.
First officer unable to say my instruments are good i should take control.
So it seems non effective control hand over procedures.
...dysfunctional CRM.
Great channel, thank you
Wouldn't the first thing you do would be to confirm with your copilot that his attitude was showing the same information being that the altitude and speed is fine?
i'm surprised there wasn't an audible call out for "mismatch" instead of just the PIT indicator. yes they could have checked the centre artificial horizon but that call out if it was part of the safety system would have told them exactly the issue. having watched a number of aircrash videos i believe the first thing the pilot flying should have done was cross-checked with the co-pilot what his artificial horizon was reading.
maybe they should make it so the level instrument thing can never fail and the co pilot and pilot qont show different pitch angles etc
This is a pilot either fatigued or his yearly test scores are constantly pass, but by a slim margin. His reaction was as if he was woke out of a stooper. Poor lads
Normally isn't there a third (3rd) ADI (Attitude indicator) in situations of confusion?
Captain shouldn't have asked for help and allowed the copilot to scan the instruments.
But this more of a hindsight comment and his actions are somewhat understandable.
It looks like there was a third ADI in the middle but neither pilot referenced it.
The captain doesn't need help scanning the instruments; he can see them all by himself. All he needed to do was look at them, but it seems he didn't.
This is exactly the reason it was put there, i.e. for this specific failure mode. It wasn't put there "for fun", it was foresight, not hindsight.
Well, to bluntly answer "trilight" (aka O.P.) directly, YES... There are 3 ADI's on the plane. 1 for the Captain... 1 for the First Officer... and 1 "Back-up" in the roughly center of the console for EITHER or BOTH pilots to reference occasionally and confirm their own instruments are functioning properly.
I WOULD like to suggest that any time you have a "back-up" display feature, that you should probably make a habit of checking it against whatever you normally use. This SHOULD (at least, in my opinion) fall under the usual "Trust BUT Verify" practices frequently referenced by Pilots and their channels, from the Air Safety Institute through Mentour Pilot and 74Gear with Kelsey...
If that habit gets ingrained early, you won't even be thinking much about it, when you see strange or unexpected readings on your instruments. You'll just BE in the habit of confirming the instrument isn't "on the blink" by having a look at the back-up... AND if that's not available, even asking your Co' what the hell his display is saying. EITHER of those two "automatic" reflex actions would've saved a whole lot of stress and heartache, and would likely have prevented this from being more than a string of foul language and a footnote in the maintenance and repair log. ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 You are absolutely right that such a crosscheck should be an automatic habit. The only thing I have to add is that you don't even need to ask the other pilot what his ADI is showing, because in an airplane like this you can see it quite well with a slight turn of the head. Using your own eyes is much faster than a query and interpretation of the response.
What ever happened to partial panel training. Seems not to exist anymore. If the speed and the altitude are stable, forget the attitude indication. It might just be the angle of attack vane outside the left cockpit wall.
That's a big crater for such a small aircraft.
I thought the opposite! 😳
👍🏼
Here in the USA we call that Upset Training
Well. Our airline would call that unreliable attitude indicator. Figure out who’s is right based off of standby AI
And still it doesnt help you... like most of your education😀
Could have asked the co pilot what his primary flight display was showing.
What caused this then? Did one of the pitot tubes freeze?
The Capt's attitude indicator was faulty, for undetermined reasons. The crash was so violent that investigators could not say exactly, but this instrument had had a few write ups before, so probably a bad solder or smth.
@@avgeek-and-fashion thank you 😊
uhm, Might've a bit tbh there are 100% margin for those negative G's another negative G would start making the plane a scrappiece maybe? written off, but they could've landed, the upset though.... why do you think airbus overtook boeing? 1. boeing is run by MDA's nowadays's and pressured unheard engineers are unheard, airbus has been working on the A320 A330 A340 cncepts and FEP )F;oght Enveloppe Protection systems for 20 years before releasing the A320 onto the testbed. Nowwith Instrument DIsagree, Normal law is still in effect. if Backup and F.O side corresponded correctly with AoA Statics and Pitot and Secundairy pitot data as there are freaking 2 for every seat and 3 for the backups on an A350. imagine... normal law wouldé prevented it to go into an upset at all. and the captain yeah he thought he might be stalling but the speed wasnt bleeding off, that's a fucking sign. neither was alt. I mean When airbus says RETARD RETARD on every landing i mean humans are retards.
Fucking horrific, its good that the new CRJ's are A220's now, because seriously i wont fly on anything but airbus and i keep myself strapped in at all times. why ddid the copolit struggle getting the yoke, ITS A YOKE not a sidestick, and i woud've called definitly after looking at ADI's all 3 of them and seriously ECAM is a lifesaver. but nooo the MAX's and CRJS dont have them
neither proper eicasses, and thats what you get If it's a MAX i wont even fucking board.
unless i talked to the captain and asked his memory items on a runaway trim. If he doesn't include helping the copilot manually trimming the thing, whilsts holding the stick between his legs AN ACTUAL MEMORY ITEM then I say i wont board., because i am the better pilot here, armchair or whatever but i flew
I mean, do an instrument cross check. Is the co-pilot seeing the same thing? What poor CRM. Also, if the aircraft had been in such a pitch up attitude, the altitude should have been changing.
Since when are RJ's used for cargo~?
I cannot imagine that being profitable when Dash-8's and ATR's are all over the used airplane market.
Well if you enter the world of the Warrior, The Ultimate Warrior told Hokogan to assume the controls and shove them into a nosedive
FFS. If the ADI suddenly says you are pitching up, but you felt nothing- cross check the THREE ADI's, and see if yours is wonky, or have a look at the ASI or the VSI or just let go for a moment or two. I'm not suggesting IFR 'by the seat of your pants', but come on. Doing NOTHING for 10 seconds can really help.
I dont understand why something hasnt been invented to help pilots with spacial problems. Like a stationary clear orb object filled with glowing liquid would be better than nothing. You could see which way its leaning.
Surely this accident could have been avoided by just pilot/co pilot compairing instrument readings ?,.i,m asuming you can't fly a plane by the seat of your pants or gut fealing especially in a pitch black sky, they had height on their side to start with and if they communicated and double checked each others instruments it should have been established to hand over control to co pilot,.plus they both must have been counter acting each other fighting the controls,. another avoidable accident ,.
Who are flight 294 air sweden pilots?
Terrible decisions by the captain
You R the "Aircraft Incident Whisperer"..
Instrument flying 101: Cross Check, Interpretation, and Control...
Partial panel flying.
First, check altitude and airspeed. Everything else is irrelevant.
fact: the crash was so hard, it heavily damaged it. just look it up.
Typical pilot who doesn't consult with their co-pilot or considers other factors. This similar issue has cropped up a dozen or more times with pilots who come from what I call the arrogant breed. That being pilots who are unlikely to consult subordinates of consider that they are wrong.
The AHIs when on the ground look like upside-down Ukrainian flags.
Instrument training has you cross check instruments. If your HSI is showing pitch up but your airspeed and altitude aren't changing, then you need to disregard the erroneous instrument. Of course, real life tosses us crap at the worst time and I'm sitting in my office chair, not the cockpit at the time. They were in pitch dark, no horizon reference and focused on the one thing that brought them fear.
Failure to say, "What?! I'm showing 15 degree pitch up!" Abrupt and excessive nose down. Failure to say, "What?! You put us into a dive! What do you think all these flying object are about?" Failure to check altimeter changes. Two pilots on one joystick?? Failure to recognize that overspeed means nose down.
"Loss of situational awareness" is a CYA euphemism for "Pilots didn't know how to fly". Now we get further CYA excuses about instinctual tunnel vision? That's called "panic".
That is true Dave, there were many failures and the PIC was most definitely in a state of panic. I try to not judge the pilots of each incident and try to explain why, for example, the PIC was in a state of panic. Ideally the situation should have been handled differently. I think, trying to understand why someone with that level of experience acted in that way is the interesting part.
Curious…..guessing the path to the left seat for the captain and the path for the FO was pretty straightforward. Both of them could have benefited by spending 3-5 years as an FO with a seasoned captain learning the trade . I have been flying for 40 years and see new FO’s who at 250 hours started teaching….got their 1200-1500 hours and went to the right seat of an RJ. 6-8 months later upgraded, and 6 months after that are right seat of an Airbus or 737. They have 3-4k total hours, and most of it in nice weather with everything working. They do great when all is good but when we have bad weather, icing, storms, delays, or anything complex going on their “inexperience “ rears it’s ugly head. Nothing bad about them personally they just haven’t been there, done that, or seen that. This is what happened to flight 294. What should have been a relatively simple issue to fix turned into a fatal accident . The airline I fly at has recognized this problem and is conducting training to raise awareness so experienced captains can pass along wisdom before the new hire FO who upgrades in 3 years is involved in a flight 294 incident on steroids with 200 passengers…..and screws up the response like the 294 crew did.
@meburman, that’s good to hear, anything proactively boosting air safety rather than a reactionary response is always a winner. But then I guess it would still be a reaction to events seen on other airlines. They are always tragic but at least the industry as a whole becomes a little bit safer with each incident.
@@meburman It amazes me that CME is done in less than a week, and that the FAA thinks getting 1500 hours in a Cub is good enough to fly these jets. Even more amazing is that foreign airlines put you in the right seat right with about 250 hours.
@@sigbauer9782 Agreed. It looks good on paper 📝 until an accident like this happens.
It's a fact that 50% of all airplane crashes are caused by the pilots,caused by stress and fear in the moment. Why not let the automatic pilot take over for all the time.Especially at landings? I Think aircrashes will reduce 30%
9:03- Fatally injured ? You could say that.
Good video. Two points not explained however. I guess we will never know what the plane was "actually" doing before the pilot seemingly over committed to pitching the nose down. As explained, the autopilot suddenly disengaging by itself I fairly sure added to this over commitment to pitching the nose down. My question, perhaps naive, is wouldn't a decrease in airspeed have had some effect on the pitch of the nose given the design of this aircraft? I am no pilot.
Thanks Chris, so before the Pilot in command pitched down, the aircraft was flying straight and level at a steady speed. The reason for the indication on the PIC’s display was a fault with the Inertial Reference System (IRS), there were two other indicators that showed the aircraft’s correct position. The Autopilot automatically disconnected because the logic of the aircraft as the two main attitude indicators were showing different information.
With regards to the speed, if the Pilots had noticed a reducing speed indicator that would have supported the idea that the aircraft was pitching up.
I disagree and I think this is simple. I'm amazed that a pilot with that much flight time could have such an inappropriate initial reaction to a gyro failure, even if suffering from fatigue. So here we are again blaming the magic glass cockpit for what is really a lapse in basic airmanship. Then maybe the magic is the cause, and perhaps all the comparators and warning indications only further condition pilots to focus on them, rather than compare basic instrument indications for confirmation of aircraft performance. There is no excuse for this in an airplane with three ADIs as well as multiple altimeters and airspeed indicators.
I'm in full agreement with you.
Agreed 💯, I wish I could be so certain that I would react correctly
Just my own experience and observation, so grain of salt... BUT there's almost never a single reason for an experienced or "seasoned" professional to suddenly "sh*t his pants and forget how to do his job".
It's almost certainly not JUST fatigue... There are contributing factorS, meaning emphasis on the PLURAL. He was clearly distracted before he "snapped to" with the awareness that something seemed to have gone completely sideways without any good explanation. That's really all it takes for a "freak out", and under conditions of a freak out, you're simply no longer responsible for your actions, and you WILL lose the capacity for rational thought.
Distractions come in many forms, from stress on some part of the job outside the present duty... stress in relationships... worries about any number of things you can't do anything about (from pregnant spouse to sickness in the family)... It can be displaced grief over a lost loved one or any number of things else.
Fatigue only really seems to make us more susceptible to distraction. It slows our mental faculties down and makes everything literally more difficult and slower. Self medicating with alcohol (as has already been warned often enough, I suppose) can seem like a short term solution, but it's actually among the WORST things you can do... essentially adding gasoline to a fire in terms of practically every psychological issue in the DSM... AND as if that wasn't enough, it quickly turns alcohol from a fun party-favor and social lubricant into a "crutch", and a crutch is NO FUN AT ALL. Other addictions or trying to reduce or eliminate them CAN ALSO add to the stresses and distractions, as simple as the "monkey chatter" about not feeding your own addiction becoming a dubious part of the problem, even as much as any rehab or habit-kicking process is meant to be helpful.
NOW... This is NOT to indict the Captain for anything. It's ONLY to point out some of the outside factors that may well have played their share of role in his decision making paradigm, or the lack thereof. I'm also only scraping the surface stuff that MIGHT have played into this incident, and I'm no expert. I'm sure there's a list of things that probably DID contribute to the Captain's condition, especially his mental condition, and we may well never really know all that added to the pressure and duress he was feeling at the time... ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 The report did mention that four a few seconds, the captain got the attitude to show "level" flight. During this period, it must have raised a concern that the altitude is still numerically changing.
Since the First Officer had a better understanding of the situation, he should have pressed the priority switch and taken control of the aircraft.
@@MatthewTaylor3 That's the thing about panic, though... They call it (popularly) "Fight or Flight"... BUT there are 3 actual possibilities...
Fight or Flight or FREEZE...
For whatever reason, the co-pilot hesitated, as far as taking over control. He was then quickly overwhelmed in the efforts to try to make sense of everything, get something coherent out of his Captain, and help (since the Captain SEEMED articulate enough to request it) fight out of the upset of the plane. It just NEVER occurred to the co-pilot that the WHOLE problem was his Captain...
EVERYBODY assumed there was something inherently wrong with the plane, and the emotions fed off each other through panic to mindless gobbledy-gook...
The truth is that it's a LOT more difficult to be sure whether you have a coherent person or a driveling panicked mess on your hands... AND when technology fails FAR more often (though usually far LESS detrimentally) than the human, it's understandable to assume the plane is wrong, and the Captain is doing whatever he can to get it "back to right"...
He SHOULD have taken over control, but it's also something ANY of us could've done exactly the same thing about... and what's scary is we'd STILL be just as screwed. ;o)
Pilots are taught to trust their INSTRUMENTS. That is good. But what pilots learn is to trust THEIR instruments. That is not so good.
Also, yes, standard callouts when abnormal things occur. Air Sweden’s standard callout was: “What?!” This left something to be desired. Even “Yipe!” or “Holy shit” might have worked better.
Very true, there was clearly a breakdown of any effective CRM. But you are right, even a change in the language used could have informed the other of the situation.
I try not to judge, there is so much going on in terms of human behaviour and psychology, let alone the outside factors that are not included in the report.
The tone of your comment strikes the perfect balance of that.
(If you can even read a ‘tone’🙂)
@@CuriousPilot90 Thank you CP and thank you for the channel!
How DARE YOU blame this on the pilot! What a morronic thing to do!
so much blabla, this is not a good summary prioritizing what is really wrong. Why are planes interfaces not designed around humans who are supposed to fly them?
FLY, Naviga..... No XCHECK, TEAM UP AND FLY, then navigate communicate to ground, first communicate with each other and i think safety pilots should be in order in shitty aircraft like these they had time and tbh the PFD, was a shitty design not SHOWING BANK Situation or Upseet Info, Like airbus and Boeing PFD's even god boeing also SQUARE.
my Instructor always said flying is like a snail crawling, no matter how dark it is, I mean didn't they have BACKUP ADI? still with my 12k hours..... i cant judge em..... Rest in peace
All of this is just a terrible interface design by the flight instruments, why no one ever talks about this is beyond me!!!!!!! And its happened on more such incidents. Everyone talks pilot or mechanical error but this is a design error. We already know all the biases so why not design around them? Tragic!
This still doesn't answer who's instrument readings were correct and who's weren't correct or if EITHER were correct. Why was there a discrepancy in instrument readings in the first place? There should never be a discrepancy between the pilot's and co-pilot's instrument readings.
This shows that they were not pilots but computer geeks. No scan all , no cross check, the altitude and airspeed would have quickly indicated a faulty instrument. Too bad they had to pay for their lack of basic flying skills.
You keep going on about the pilots behavior but never reveal what the cause of instrumentation failure was, very disappointing.
Classic case of non-pilots. Give control to the F/O, problem solved.
15.43 "if you found this video interesting please consider liking the video and join in with the discussion in the comments below it's always good to hear what you have to say" I have to say:
"It is bad manners to leave out the greeting completely!"
But I know - you don't care!
What do you mean by greeting?
@@CuriousPilot90 "Hi Guys!" or just "Hi!"
I guess so, making the videos more personal would be a good thing. It’s just usually at that point, the majority of the audience leaves as it’s the end of the video. So to avoid the large drop off I try to keep the endings short. I’ll try to improve that in the future. 👍🏼
@@CuriousPilot90 Well, how about a greeting - as usual - at the beginning? Either right away or after a short intro. "Hi guys!" takes less than a second at the beginning of the video. But if you want to be more formal and say "Welcome to my video" then it could be after the intro, as you can see for example in the videos of the channel "Undecided with Matt Ferrell".
I really didn't think you would answer anything because this is a massive epidemic that started a few months ago - which stopped the video greetings from most of the tubers. I've already written about this to someone who doesn't offer the slightest greeting, but no one has yet reacted before you - - maybe you're only reacting because it seems I wasn't understood correctly. My apologies if my poor English is the reason. I use the stupid Google.Translator to produce English text...
The fact that most tubers have stopped saying "Hi!" or something else polite - it reflects what is happening to this world. It's one step for the worse and it's no surprise.
I don't care, I'm here for the content not for the greetings.
"NOTAM" stands for Notices To Air Missions".
The cause is simple: overreaction by the PIC. His ALT and AS were steady, which didn't jive with the AI. This is instrument failure procedure 101. Then there's the fact that he shoved the controls full forward, another no-no.
Once again incompotent career pilots who became "pilots" for the money and free travel once again showing that they don't deserve to be pilots nor should be in a cockpit. Career pilots are like machines. They only do what they were taught in standard Conditions. When things go slightly wrong as we see in these videos they panic, over react. And cause a crash themselves. I'm sick of this. Pilots these days become pilots by being taught how to pass certain tests or certification standards. It's rare anyone is a natural born pilot or is just good at it and becomes one because they truly love it. What we have is just a bunch of incompotent career pilots who don't deserve to be in a cockpit at all, in it ONLY for the pay. They treat it like a job and when the job goes slightly wrong, they panic and crash.
And they didn't power down. If you truly lost attitude indicators, you could power down, and use very slight elevator and aileron control, it's not accurate but you can still feel how your banking if you do it slow enough and know which direction you banked. Second. If you pitch down and hear the wind noise increase with power down, you know your going down, and if you raise the elevator powered down and notice wind speed go down you know your going up. It's a way to regain control but how would career pilots who are incompotent know Anything?
It's always sad when these crashes happen outside of India.
@@mikerodent3164 I'll get back to you when all of my phones stop ringing off the hook from Subhuman scammers in India.
@@mikerodent3164 This is a weird disturbed individual who comments multiple times for air crashes to happen in India in this channel.