Let's Play: Riven - part 25 - Gehn's 233rd Age
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- We pay a visit to Gehn in his 233rd Age, and get captured. For the third time.
My description of descriptive books versus linking books in this video is not very clear. To clarify: a descriptive book describes (and links to) a new Age. A linking book links back to an existing Age. To write a linking book to an Age, you must be in the Age you wish to link to (so you can never write a linking book to an Age you haven't visited). Descriptive books can link to places you haven't visited before (and in fact, due to the chaotic factors involved in creating books, it's as good as impossible to write two descriptive books that link to the same Age).
An Age can have only one descriptive book, but as many linking books as you want. Only the descriptive book can be used to modify the Age, to an extent; there are very strict rules to how an age can be modified; modify the text in the descriptive book too much, and it ends up linking to a different Age altogether, and you lose the link to the original Age forever (the linking books also link to the new Age when that happens). If the descriptive book is damaged or destroyed, the linking books to that Age stop working. Destroying the descriptive book doesn't destroy the Age itself, you just can't go there anymore.
When you write a descriptive book, it links to some existing quantum reality that most closely matches what you wrote; so unlike what Gehn believes, you don't create a new world. If the text in the descriptive book contains contradictions, the Age linked to will be unstable and will likely destroy itself soon. This is what's happening to Riven (and every Age Gehn wrote, since he doesn't understand the Art and just copies passages from other books he found into his own books).
To use a modern analogy, I guess you could compare a descriptive book to a file, and linking books to shortcuts to that file. If the file is altered, the shortcuts point to the altered file. If the file is deleted, the shortcuts stop working.
John Keston did an excellent job in his role. Very long takes, without a single weak point in his performance. Exactly the Gehn we read about in the books.
I only now realized that Ghen's performance here is essentially several very long takes, and he utterly nails it. The quiet reflection, the hidden anger, the sense of contained ambition. Quite a tall feat for an actor, and certainly far and away better than any other FMV titles from the time period. Bravo sir!
That outfit is outrageous. It's like some combination of the uniform of a Grand Admiral and a sheik.
I seriously love how they got a British guy to play Gehn. It makes him 1000x cooler.
Ah, the legendary John Keston. 95 years young as of typing this comment and still going strong. He attributes it to running, which he's done for 40 years now.
"If I do further Let's Plays"? This was my first Let's Play, three years ago, and I've done 31 Let's Plays since then. My style has evolved a lot in that time.
To be honest, in terms of... depth, I guess is the right word I'm looking for, Gehn is probably my favorite character. (Atrus is my favorite character, but probably because I've met the person behind the character!) Even when I couldn't understand what he was saying when I was 11, I still loved his speech. It kept me gripped to him.
Gehn reminds me so much of Sirrus in his demeanour and how he puts himself across in terms of style, speech, etc.
I have read all three of the Myst novels. Why do you think I know so much about the back story. ;-)
I think he was doing experiments to compare his writing in this Age's descriptive book to the actual results. He was hoping to use that data when writing his 234th Age, which he planned to use as a permament refuge once Riven collapsed.
In previous videos:
“Hello again”
In this video:
“Hello Gehn”
Catherine does use dreams to get the ideas for her ages, but that isn't generally how it works.
The idea is that in an infinite universe with an infinite number of quantum alternates, anything you could possibly imagine exists somewhere. So they can write anything they want, and somewhere in the multiverse there will be a reality that matches it, no matter what they wrote. Of course, if what you wrote isn't tenable, it might destroy itself shortly after you arrive.
Prison books have officially changed I guess since Myst and Riven. They are they're own ages now. Originallly prison ages trapped the linker in between linking to the age with a trap algorithm. Hence why Sirrus and Achenar couldn't leave in Myst. Now, its just a separate age and its only a trap because there aren't any linking books there.
Yes, because going out of your way to find and buy copies of obscure novels about a computer game isn't nerdy at all. :-)
Imagine this scenario: you use the trap book, which is followed by Gehn using it and setting you free inside his office. Now, pull up a chair, and just hang out there until Cho links into 233 (once he realizes Gehn's gone AWOL). Of course, he'll link into the caged area. Now force Cho to use the linking book while inside the cage, freeing Gehn, but trapping him inside his own cage, and likely without his gun, since he'd have set it down by now. It's a Gehn fail :)
I love the little detail that Gehn is such a subpar writer that he can hold the book in his hand and not be able to read the underlying text.
It's not that he can't read it. It's that the process of making a linking book is subtle, and clearly he's finding something suspicious about it as he's reading it.
"Atrus' choice of punishment has been hard on the people of Riven." Gotta love how he just spells it out for you haha
@macadoolahicky The book implies Catherine wrote it for a while, but that was a ruse because she and Anna wanted to keep Anna's involvement hidden at that point. Only later when Atrus realizes what has been going on does he realize that Catherine didn't write Myst, but Anna did.
Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones always reminded me of Gehn
Well, both Charles Dance (the actor who portrayed Tywin Lannister) and John Keston are British (or English-born if you want to be more specific). I know what you are thinking regarding the similarities between the two (although Mr. Keston looks more like the late Peter Cushing).
one of the best villain monologues in video games, in my opinion.
@macadoolahicky It's mentioned in the Book of Atrus that Anna wrote Myst.
When he says "I even tried to kill him once..." Wow! Brilliant and creepy performance
I agree. Often the best villains are the ones who do what they do because it is right or good or noble, or even selfless, even though we would think otherwise.
@SentraMaster No, they definitely link to existing ages. That's the whole point of Riven and (more so) the Book of Atrus: Gehn thinks he is a god by creating worlds, but in reality he does no such thing.
Changing existing ages is explained by some quantum mechanics nonsense about only being able to change unobserved things which. If you change too much though the book (and all associated linking books) will end up linking to a new age (this happened with Gehn's Age 37 in the Book of Atrus).
@c3nty2 Gehn is a very bad writer. His normal way of writing books is by copying phrases from existing D'ni books, but he probably didn't have any in Riven, so he had to work from his own limited understanding. He doesn't understand the principles needed to create a stable and fertile world, so something like this is probably the best he could do.
Also, he didn't write the structure, he built it with the help of some Rivenese, because of the difficulty of writing man-made objects into an age.
Technically yes. But actually the D'Ni live on Earth, underground somewhere in New Mexico. When the D'Ni arrived, they didn't even realize there were other people on the surface until a long time later. So all the linking books to Earth actually link to D'Ni (until Atrus builds Tomahna, which is also somewhere in New Mexico, and then makes a linking book to there also)
One question I've always had, if Ghen doesn't actually create the ages, why are his unstable? The argument that he just describes an existing age that is unstable is valid, but then how is Atrius able to stabilize them?
David Cybok the official explanation is "shrug"
I know this comment is 4 years old. As far as I understand;
1: Gehn doesn't understand the nuances of D'ni writing and leaves out words he doesn't think are necessary when writing an Age.
2: He changes the descriptive books to the point of instability. You can only successfully change the Age in a way that feels organic, like it was already planned from the beginning to change.
Sven has mentioned a few times it has a lot to do with quantum mechanics and quantum theory regarding the possibility of infinite worlds. I don't understand it much myself. Hope it helps.
It's a pretty interesting explanation. It's basically applying patches to a book, in a way that it doesn't contradict itself. Remember Stoneship, the age where Atrus wrote a ship into existence. While the Age already existed, the ship was "created". One could attempt to explain this using Quantum physics, saying that there are possibilities that are unobserved that could exist there or not until we see them (think Schrödinger's cat), but I find it easier to say that he just read and wrote in-between the lines. For example, he could have written about a lake. But we do not know what's in the lake, how it looks, what's beneath it, the color of the water, etc. That's all left to speculation, until he writes it into the Age, which makes it definitely existent, whereas before it was all just a possibility that could or not exist. Of course, you can only change the book so much until you end up in a completely different Age, and you have to be careful to not write contradictions. All worlds already exist, if you make these Schrödinger changes to it, you "create" stuff that could or not have been there, and if these changes are contradictory, the Age becomes unstable, and will eventually collapse in itself.
I was so depressed that you can't explore the age, it looks so interesting
That was an awesome performance. It's almost like Gehn really believes he's not a bad person. (I don't know what happens next, btw)
You know, I think you may be on to something. :)
Yes, Atrus does not have a descriptive book for Tomahna, just linking books so he can get back
I don't want to know how often they had to re-shoot these long scenes. The gloves were a tough enemy, I think.
@Dilandau3000 Seriously? That's the one book I read! I have all three but I never got around to the other ones. I guess I missed that important piece of information... Although I was younger, and I have reading comprehension issues. I will go back and reread ^.^
I love Ghen's actor, but they probably would've made you question if he was really evil a little more if he didn't look exactly like Grand Moff Tarkin
If there are an infinite number of universes, couldn't it be considered that you have to create the universe for it to exist? Like Shrodingers Cat.
Yeah! Cannot wait to see Katran in next video!!
I actually like your retorts they would be exactly what I would say
I Have to admire Gehn's 233rd age, it looks so epic!
I guess when Ghen or his minions first went to the 233rd Age, they must have brought with them some means of powering Ghen's linking books either in the form of a portable generator or the parts required to create a generator as well as fuel.
The mouaty of Riven is a tribes of three different types of beings each ages D'NI and the world of past present times Relishum
Anyone who calls the Rivenese "violent" is clearly either deluded or otherwise untrustworthy.
@WhisperDeeply Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think a direct answer is ever offered as to whether or not Descriptive books create ages or link to existing ibes. But since once a descriptive book has linked to an age, changes written into that book alter the age instead of redirecting it to a similar age, I would be inclined to think that the descriptive books do actually create ages.
Didn't Atrus say that when someone else attempts to use the book, the person already inside would be freed?
I think Gehn is probably the best actor in the Myst series.
The elements that make the story behind the Myst games and the theory behind the Art is really interesting and unique, especially for a video game. I sorta compare writing books to writing passages in a programming language, it sounds somewhat similar.
I had the chance to read the book of Atrus once, I found it in a small library in the most obscure of places. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to read the whole ting then. Have you read it?
As I understand it (and I could be wrong), when you first link to an Age, you will arrive at a time when the state of the Age is exactly as described in the book. Maybe not "exactly" since it seems there are usually some surprises, but nothing contradicts what's written. If you've written it badly then disasters will start to happen soon, because you didn't narrow your description down to the version of that world where those disasters are rare. Something like that.
00:23 Not much alcohol in the 233rd Age eh Sven.
I was always under the impression that Catherine wrote the age Myst. However, I just learned that it was actually Anna that did?
Would you happen to know exactly where it is written/said that Anna was the true writer of Myst?
wait ... if you got trapped in the book an gen came later wouldn't you still end up free and gen trapped?
John keston!
Given that in Myst and Riven the prison book would trap you but then once Gehn uses it, you would be set free (like Cyrus or Aknar in Myst if you exchange with them) wouldn't using it be safe?
Is it possible to bring a descriptive book into its age through a regular book and make changes to the age there? And can you write another descriptive book to replace the first one if you kept track of what was in the first one and insert a passage that says the people have the same memories and experiences as when you met them, or just write a similar age and include that passage about the people?
So... a Descriptive Book is like the first copy? And I thought the way a prison book worked was that only the last person to link to the book got imprisoned? And the existing prisoner would be set free?
@macadoolahicky If you do know, just tell me where I can read it or where it is said, just to avoid spoilers =] Thanks!
So...if Tomahna was built and is on earth, did it not need a descriptive book, just linking books?
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wait gen wrotes his 233 age right but the descriptive book can be on the 233 age or on riven so how can he is sure to survive?
@goatmanvideo82197 Yep! 6 years ago!
@Kazuo1G Wait, You've met Rand Miller? Awesome!
This is good but how would you pull this off? Do 2 games a year?
The internet, like me. :p
don't care... I like your retorts.
not sure where you got the idea from that descriptive books don't create ages from the ground up or why you're even mentioning it
I don't mean to offend, but if you do further Let's Play!'s, please don't insert your own retorts to whatever speech a game character may be delivering. It's not only distracting, and detracts from the let's play and the game itself, but they also can't hear you.