Why We Love The Mentor Character
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2024
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![On Writing: Mentor Characters [ Iroh l Obi-Wan l Cersei l Lupin ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/djnao3Ey3zc/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Mentor Characters [ Iroh l Obi-Wan l Cersei l Lupin ]](/img/tr.png)
Anyone else chuckle to themselves when he said “having a favorite mentor character and knowing how to properly execute one…”
oh shit lol. i was thinking of uncle iroh so just realised it now
Mentors teach us as much as they teach the trainee. Iroh. Jariya. Many that come with history and experience
My favourite type of mentor is the "reluctant mentor." He never wanted anything to do with whatever is going on, but is somehow forced to train a kid and grows to love them.
Shifu is a great example.
mentor characters fill in a void for a lot of people i think, imparting the same guidance on the reader that they do on the character theyre mentoring. theyre a comforting and wise presence :)
Why are there two spaces between each word you type? That Is Almost As Distracting As First Letter Caps Writers.
@@NikolasDungeon The biggest offender is that they clump "they" and "re" into one instead of writing "they are".
Just a question/observation. If a Mentor character has an end of act 2 twist of betraying their pupil or otherwise revealing they were on the antagonist's side all along, would that narratively count as the mentor's "Death?"
I’d say so
In ATLA, Iroh being in prison most of the 3rd book would count as his “death” because he willingly chose his fate and even refuses to talk to Zuko during the first visits, which isolates Zuko and makes the decisions that he makes feel more urgent and important, in spite of him being back home with family/friends, because ultimately he feels alone.
As long as the act isolates the character in a way that puts urgency to their actions, I think a twist like that works perfectly
I think so. It especially works because it puts the pupil in the position of having to decide whether the lessons formerly given were true because a good person taught them, or because they are true in and of themselves, even when the teacher fails to live up to them.
Jade Empire is an example of this question and observation in action, kinda a spoiler though. The pupil must grow, absent the teacher, and apply all that they have learned.
I would lean yes, that's a good observation
Can’t work of the mentor was evil the whole time like a sith! Who are EXPECTED to betray one another!
I mean, how cool is it in Return of the Jedi when Luke uses the same Jedi mind trick that he watched Obi-wan do years earlier?
I think they also remind us of the mentors, educators, etc who've made an impact in our own lives
I think another fun aspect of mentor characters is when you make the audience question the mentor and their capabilities
My favourite mentor-student dynamics is from Vinland Saga. Askeladd (mentor) kills Thorfinns (student) father at the beginning of the story, so thorfinn decides to join his gang and train under him because he wants to become strong enough to kill him and take revenge. Askeladd knows this and lets him stick around anyway because Thorfinn is useful to him.
I'm bad at explaining, but the dynamic these two have is insane. Askeladd is one of the best written villains I know and I just can't help loving the guy.
It is seriously an amazing show & I highly recommend it.
One aspect of mentor characters I love is when they are not 'evil' but also not good enough and may ultimately end up against the protagonist. I see this periodically in lit that deals with postcolonial narratives where the mentor is a member of the oppressing/ dominate class but has good ideals, however they don't have the understanding of what it's like to be on the other side of systems, and prioritize the status quo over necessary change.
I clicked on this video by accident
Master Oogway: “There are no accidents.”
A unique concept would be the mentor being the "villain" or antagonist all along and teachers the "hero" or protagonist for a different reason, perhaps pretending to be moral and such.
It doesn't have to be a twist, out of nowhere villain either.
It could be revealed early on so that the inevitable betrayal hurts the more as we see the relationship build up.
Also a cool idea is that 'special power' being used against the hero.
Ra's al Ghul of Batman Begins is mentor and antagonist.
Treasure Island
Reverse Flash?
So Metal Gear Solid 3
Treasure Planet is the best example of this. The mentor turns into the villain but is conflicted about being pitted against his pupil.
The audience understands that the mentor is secretly looking for a good reason to choose his pupil over his goal, and that that moment will likely only come when its too late to fully redeem himself.
The problem with the mentor character is, he has to be killed off to be out of the way and give the protagonist the chance to prove his mettle and resolve the conflict.
Kakashi, Tsunade. Two Mentor characters from the same story that didn't die. Yeah, the trope regularly relies on the death of the Mentor to get the MC to grow, but it's not necessary in every scenario.
2:10 That is precisely the philosophy behind Looney Tunes. The team had to first understand conventional and basic rules before they were able to break them. That resulted in one of the most beloved and widely known cartoons of all time.
I love how it's basically an in-joke among watchers of fiction that these characters won't last until the end of the story 😅
I can see the mentor character almost like the Isekai genre. A powerful, wise, or great man/woman that helps you develop as a human and erase all of your problems. Something almost every guy wants. Isekai kinda serves the same purpose, although lazier.
You are so good at explaining things in simple ways that everyone can understand. Good video!
This video as always was incredibly informative. With a nice amount of examples. I'm partial the iroh being the ideal mentor character because he actively could fix a lot of the issues in the series but tells them why he can't! Love characters like that
Still saying it, love your voice and your passion.
I love your change of format in your videos! Seeing you explain with b roll footage as a complement not focus works well, at least I think. Keep it up!
They are what we aspire to be. And they are who we surpass.
I love your videos SO MUCH. Thank you for these beautiful essays!
I always look forward to your videos, and this one was as great as always!
The epiphany of all mentor characters will always be Chief Master Guru.
super great content man!
I'm writing a book centering around a mentor character. Thank you for this great resource!
Gonna need a "why we all love found family" video
Have you Madoka magica, I feel like Mami is my favorite mentor character because of how she is handled.
Great video! Mostly stuff I already knew, but your way of describing it and bringing the threads together made it clearer in my head than it was before. You have a great way of distilling concepts like this down to their core components.
One of my all time favourite tropes is Trained By Many Masters, where a character bounces between various mentor characters, picking up skills/qualities from each until they're eventually superior to all of their individual mentors as they combine the best qualities of all of them. As much as the ending was very questionable, Game of Thrones was amazing for that. Arya was an obvious example, learning from Syrio Forel, the Hound, Jaqen H'ghar and more briefly from Brienne and the archer from the Brotherhood. Jon Snow also got taught leadership from Ned Stark, Commander Mormont, Alliser Thorne (some of which is learning how not to behave - important point in your video that sometimes the mentor figure is an example of what not to become), and smaller interactions like with Mance Rayder and Stannis. Even Sansa followed the trope, learning court skills and how to play The Game from Cersei, Littlefinger, Margaery, Ramsey Bolton and numerous others.
It's really satisfying seeing characters grow and overcome a conflict using some skill or piece of knowledge they picked up two seasons or books ago or films ago.
I thought I had left Spotify open, because I was just listening to that album while reading.
I like Phil from Disney's Hercules.
Oh, and Peter B. Parker from Spider Verse.
I'd like to add a bit more to that quote at the beginning. I've been theorizing for a small while that, in addition to entertainment, fiction's greatest strength is in its ability to offer a space for reflection, both on the personal and societal levels. Entertainment is almost the hook for all fiction, in my eyes, and the emotional impact is the catalyst that allows for the reflection to take root.
Admittedly, I very much am talking out of my ass; for all I know, this could just be second-hand knowledge for any professional writer and I'm not as smart as smart as I think I'm being. Or I could be very off the mark with a bit of a baseless theory. Irregardless, I like to think that, no matter what, enh, it feels like a good next step in understanding the nature of this field that (I assume) we all love.
My writing professor taught me that EVERY movie has a mentor- not all as obvious as Yoda or Uncle Iroh. A character only has to say 1 line to be considered a "mentor"- to clearly lay out the mission statement/theme of the story. We proceeded to throw movies at him and he'd correctly guess the mentor. Then he gave US one that we were all stumped on. Toy Story.
The answer was Bo Peep, but what she says I'll leave that to you if you're curious to find out.
My favorite is Gusteau from ratatouille !!! Does this count even though he is a figment of Remy’s imagination??
I feel like he's the embodiment of Remy's conscience and thus in another category. It's true that his cooking show is what motivated and inspired Remy on top of teaching him the ins and outs of cooking, but in a very roundabout and unintentional way. We may call him a parasocial mentor lol
Out of all the mentor characters Iroh is my favourite. And I read the Harry Potter series multiple times a year.
I'm writing a book where the mentor of my protagonist is already dead at the begining of the story, so we met her by flashbacks/backstory
My story doesn't have a mentor but I'll definitely keep this video in mind for a future work
Is that Zelda and Chill in the background?
Amazing video once again! I really enjoyed this one. I do have a question though. How would a mentor character exist in a non-action / fighting narrative? What type of "skills" would they exhibit and how would they be able to affect the main character? I'm guessing through like emotional guidance / wisdom and things along those lines but is there more to their character?
I think wisdom and maturity are part of every mentor's lessons, but they usually teach some other practical skill that the mentee works on simultaneously. I would say Nigel from The Devil Wears Prada is a mentor who teaches Andy about fashion. He also has lessons about how to cope like a professional in a toxic work environment, and a twist in their dynamic is that Andy has to realize eventually that, while he is a good guide for anyone who is genuinely committed to his life, she doesn't want it.
I think most examples are in action or sports genres because those are genres that focus on self-mastery. I was recently reading John Truby's Anatomy of Genre and he pointed out that different genres make different assumptions about life. Some are more friendly to having a mentor than others. Romance, for example, usually lacks a mentor because the point is the two lovers have lessons to teach each other. The couple will only overcome their problems by working together, not bringing in someone else as a fixer. Because of this, any character who tries to step in as a mentor will usually end up giving bad advice. It was a good book and I'd highly recommend it.
Spicy BOTW remix. Good music choice 🫡
You could really record the same scripts again and I would still enjoy listening to it just for the sake of listening to you, but as always you shed great insight into the topic at hand
Let's talk about the background music for a second. What lofi version of song of storms is that? 🔥🔥
There is an anime kenichi histories mightiest disciple which is the exception of mentors dying trope but still being good using its mentors as trainers throughout but limiting their involvement with the battles of the disciples through other similarly strong adversaries and the knowledge that the battles will make the diciple stronger.
I love a certain type of character, The wildcard, the badass rogue, just a piece of shit and a complete asshole who talks so much shit yet he can back it up. You have a large cast and then you have that one character that goes against the herd and does his own thing.
Sometime they work with other people but most of the time they have their own self interest in mind and will backstab you if you get in the way.
Character examples: Vegeta during the Namek arc, Hisoka, Kanki from Kingdom, Soldier Boy from the boys, Stone Cold Steve Austin from wwf, Jack Horner, Blackbeard from One Piece, The Man in black from westworld, and Daemon targaryen.
I know all of them don’t fit these all these descriptions (some of them do work with other people and some are not just complete psychopaths) that’s just to give you a general idea what I’m talking about.
Bayaz however defies the typical role of the mentor as he is not liked by anyone and is only after his own interests. It's such an interesting choice to write a character like that
I would love to hear your opinions on Jujitsu kaisen in general, and after this video, Gojo.
Never in my did I think I'd ever encounter the living embodiment of "objectively handsome" but here we are...
Obi-wan was the first one I thought of😅
Hey, can you take care of your playlists and community page. Organized stuff makes it easier for us. Or maybe do you need some help with it?
This is why(being the real life thing of a main charcater is bad.)seeing it isnt real life version,and now its just harder.
Your only the main character in (your world),your skills/who you are are what makes you a main character,
your not a main character for everywhere else.
i figured it out because of philosphy for real life conflict.
Fake stories dont need to be fake all the time for stories.
Being in a dystopia is bad.
Fighting a dyspia is,i dont know how/what for it being MORE bad.
One story that I've not seen attempted but would love to see in action is where the Mentor becomes the main character by some cruel twist of fate.
Imagine this: Star Wars stars off exactly the same and has all thr same scenes except, when Obi-Wan sacrifices himself, Luke runs in to try and save him and dies in the process. Now, Obi-Wan has to take the roll of leader and hero in the story. Having to fight Darth Vader and the Empire
Is this a zelda remix in the background?
Netero.
cool
Could you do a analysis of Dante from Devil May Cry? He's close to being a edgy Gary Stu. But he's still a compelling character that isn't invincible.
Does my mentor character still count as a "mentor" if his death (supposedly) doesn't propel the protagonist to his goals but instead he literally ends up in the opposite direction, his potential was never discovered.
to me that is just the mentor trope but subverted, which i think is a category of the mentor trope
I job is aid the next generation jiariya
Ching Cheng hanji brought me here
125 INFJ 😌
Not sure if I actually ever saw your face lol truly can't remember, maybe because I mostly hear your videos while I work so I don't watch most of the time
Is there a situation where a mentor can also be a McGuffin?
MacGuffin sensei! I’ve come to save you!
@@andyaquitaine4225 That's one approach.
Stop showing us how handsome you are. Your voice and knowledge already make me feel like a lesser man. 😂😂
Wow, this guy is hot 🔥💪🏽
Please use spoiler warnings Savage, you speak greatly about these stories, so the least you could do is protect the thrill they offer.
Moist
And the problem with MarySue characters is that they act as trainees who don't need any training. They're allowed to be condescending and disrespectful towards mentor characters which in turn is disrespectful towards the audience.
Is...is this sages rain? I swear that's the same voice
Sage’s Rain is much more subdued, and he doesn’t like to reference the same media (they both have their go-to’s) I’d be very surprised