How Peugeot Dominated the Dying Days of Group C
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2022
- Group C sportscar racing birthed some of the greatest racing machines ever made. Icons of the automotive world like the dominant Porsche 956 and 962, the monstrous Sauber-Mercedes C9, and many, many more. But for over a decade after the introduction of the fastest class in sportscar racing, no French manufacturer was able to win their home event, the greatest endurance event in the world, the 24 hours of Le Mans.
#racing #lemans #peugeot - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Great video as always, love hearing about the racing monster of the WSC.
1 thing though, Peugeot only supplied Mclaren for 1994 in F1.
Glad you enjoyed the video! You're right about the McLaren deal. I think I read that the original deal had been expected to last until 2000, but while writing the script I made a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out
@@automobilistic No worries, happy to be of any help.
Keep up the great work, and have a great weekend.
@@automobilistic it was for till 2000 the engine was in f1 till 2003 as asiatec in arrows and miniardi
The Peugot engine in the McLaren was an absolute grenade. I felt so sorry for Martin Brundle having to struggle with that powerplant, the number of times it let go on him was criminal.
@@automobilistic the 905 and 908 for me are some of the alltime best LMP Race cars.
peugeot somehow manages to occasionally interrupt their production of boring, reasonably average cars and produce some of the most legendary machines motorsport has ever seen, a truly unique company
I couldn't have put it better myself hahaha
205 GTIs are a hoot, even the Rallyes too
Have you even driven a 205, 309, 106, 206, 306 or 405?
Nothing at all boring about those cars. Or maybes it's cos they don't light up the spec sheet with big power and acceleration numbers. They have built some of the best drivers cars a company has ever put into production.
@@rahulmandala4930 dude, the 205 was created FOR Group B...
@@derrickstorm6976 group b or not, the 205 was already there
Small correction, the Le Mans speed record the WM P88 Peugeot set is 407km/h, Peugeot however claimed it as 405km/h to advertise their 405 road car.
You're right. I had always believed it was 405, I should have thought to check it beyond surface level. Having just done some reading now Peugeot did a good job, the top few results on google all quote 405!
It's officialy 405kph, in 1987 they even reached 410kph but the radar couldn't record it.
And still, some information talk about more than 420 ...
Wasnt the main problem with reaching high top speeds for cars like the Veyron that no tires would resist the forces of rotating at that speed? How did these cars managed it?
Weirdly enough I actually do love the look of those peugeots!
Well, to each their own hahaha
Same, I have even built quite a few models of the 905.
I don’t like the look of the 905
Fr. The 905 and its different variants are the best looking “1Prototype’s” the Speed 8 is a VERY close second. The R8C is also up there…
@@affliction1979I’m thinking about buying a couple tbh. I *LOVE* the 905 and it’s different variants (the SuperCopter is a gorgeous car unpopular opinion I know)
If the 905 through the evo 1 and evo 1B look like they are from the lmp1 class rather than early 90’s gr. C and that is just what i think is so friggin cool about it, it was so advanced it STILL looks modern!
The 905 Evo 2 looked like it could have been made today
Bernie Eccelstone destroyed Group C
Ecclestone destroyed Formula One. There's no doubt in my mind all of his ill gotten gains comes from extremely shady back end deals. He's always been corrupted to the core.
Yes, but the late-Gr. C cars were some of the coolest racecars.
Bernie Ecclestone turned formula one from a minority interest sport with virtually No tv coverage into the billion dollar world wide spectacle it is today
@@stevejones9290 And he put about a billion dollar of that into his own pockets....
@@ingvarhallstrom2306 probably more… so what? He offered shares to the other formula one teams but they weren’t interested
In an interview in 1999, after winning Le Mans for the 4th time, Dalmas stated that the 905 was the best car he had ever driven.
The 905LM to me is the most beautiful race car ever built. The low front and narrow wind screen with scalloped sides just always looks amazing even to this day. Race care perfection especially with the screaming v10.
6:50 fun fact: the Aero of the Supercopter was made by Dassault and was so far ahead of it's Time that Bentley literally copy pasted the design on their speed 8.
I hadn't put the two together but now you mention it the front of the 2003 speed 8 does look pretty similar to the supercopter...
Ah yes the aerodynamics firm that made supersonic planes made a revolutionary car
Is the same Dassault that would later make Solidworks? Damn, they know how to set new standards
@@afoxwithahat7846 Yes, Dassault systems is their software division, separate from Dassault aviation. It's part of the French militaro industrial complex, kind of the French Norhtrop Gruman.
4:47 Nah it’s a beautiful race car one of the most beautiful tbh. The fact that it looks so radically different than other cars of that era is one of the main reasons it’s so beautiful. Plus, everything plus the cockpit and behind is just perfection.
The 905 evo is a dream to look at Reefus!
I love the combination of futurism with the elegant bodywork.
Also more wing is more vrooom, right?
We might have to disagree on the looks, but bigger wing = bigger speed for sure!
It looks surprisingly modern
I absolutely love Peugeot, I grew up with my dad having a Peugeot 505 station wagon, then he bought a 405 t16 station wagon and it blew the normal Mercedes, Audi and BMW drivers away. I guess my dad was just a really good driver. Unfortunately someone decides to smash this car up by forgetting to break. Then he got a Renault Espace v6, oh my that van was fast. But when the new series came out he got a Peugeot 106 GTI, us kids where grown up then and he didn't need a big car anymore.. what a hooligan that vehicle was.
I miss Peugeot making good cars, I would buy one if they had anything great now.
Thanks for the memories 😍
that evo 2 905 really looks like a modern lmp car. it reminds me of the audi r8 that dominated le mans for so many eyars
This is my favourite Le Mans-winning car. I love the styling. Always have. At the 2022 Le Mans race I bought a postcard of an illustration of this car as a memento. it was the only thing I could afford to buy! The other mementos were two pieces of confetti (one blue and one gold), debris from the Sunday Ferrari crash at the Porsche curves, and some rubber I pulled from the final curb on the track.
I unironically love the design of the revised 905 ahah. It's super modern for its time, looks very nimble and has some unique shape language to its body I find aesthetically pleasing
I didn’t know about the car before I first saw it and thought it was a modern lmp car lmao, it definitely looked ahead of its time
Honestly half the reason I love your channel and watch every video is because of the gran turismo background music and fits the whole motorsport story telling theme amazing
🥰
it’s insane in the C9 or Minolta Toyota videos …. Makes me feel like back doing enduros lol
I remember the 905C back in Forza Motorsport 2 and how recognizable the car was with its double wing and sleek design. It is still my favorite proper race car ever.
Good job. Ive been in love with Le Mans for over 20 years. Cant wait for 2023!
You should do a video about open and closed top prototypes. It has gone back and forth a few times and I have never been able to figure out exactly what rules governed the trends. The best I can tell in the 1960s and earlier it was pretty well up to the manufacturer with open tops becoming more common in the late '60s and early '70s then suddenly Group C and IMSA GTP were all closed cockpit with a return of open top cars in the late '80s early '90s only for them to go away in the 2010s. I really like open top cars and would love to see them return but I don't think we ever will. Anyway I think it would be a good subject for a video.
absolutely love group c, Mercedes Sauber c9 and c11 are my favourites
The WM-P88 is so absurd that might be worth its own video. The main goal of the car wasn't winning the race, but setting the speed record at Lemans, they were aware of their Twin-Turbo V6 being nothing but a mere glass cannon. The car only ran for a few laps, but it was enough to set the speed record and their mission was accomplished. The funny thing is, even if the official speed record clocked the WM-P88 at 407 KM/H, Peugeot said it was 405 KM/H. Why? In order to match with their new 4-door saloon, the 405 and use it as a publicity stunt.
Also, the rear wing of the 905 is super cool, it looks so unique.
Your videos are awesome. Growing up with the Gran Turismo games I fell in love with cars, espcially 90's JDM and Group C cars. Glad I've found your channel. Cool and not so long videos. Great job! You definitely deserve more attention.
Thanks! Really glad you like the vids :)
love the look of the early 90s group c cars, super futuristic for the time, gread video as always!
Really glad I found this channel. I love your videos!
Great footage and commentary again. Thank!
The supercopter looks like a modern LMP1/LMH!
Awesome video. Feeling the same about the car although the double rear wing is cool and the Evocopter looks amazing. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Fantastic video as always, love the cheeky lines as well lol.
Thank you for the correct prononciation of Le Mans and avoiding the infamous "leumah"
Awesome video with all the old race footage of the car,I remember racing this car on Gran Turismo 4 and Gran Turismo 6.Brings back memories.💯✌🏻
I like your channel. This was a nice video, thanks!
The Jaguar XJR-14 and Peugeot's 905B evo2 are Group C's best looking cars ever. And they are as fast as they are beautiful. Solid thanks Tom ✊🏽
I love the video that you make bro, great explain for le mans fans
What I love about this car's design is that it pretty much predicted the modern prototype race car design with it's giant wings and overall weird boxy design.
I love the classic gran turismo shop/prize car ost in the background
For some reason being an absolute boss at the last possible moment after everyone elses has stopped caring sounds very Peugeot
Enjoyed muchly
Another great video
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
This videos are awesome!
Thanks!!
Great video, i for sure learned a lot! America doesn't have Peugeot, but they are so legendary! Glad you made this one, keep it up!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video. Don't worry, you're not missing out on too much not having (modern) Peugeot road cars lol
1st class content 🥂
Love the 905, especially the B with that wacky wing that I just can't help to admire. It looks like it makes the car longer like the 'long tails' of old. Thank you for telling the that the engines were derived from F-1 rather than just being bolted in F-1 engines.
0:50 the P88 set 407 kph speed record
But they advertized it as 405 for the newly released Peugeot 405
New viewer love this channel
Love Peugeot!! Great video mate! Hope yall are going to watch 8hrs of Bahrain this weekend. Happy racing everyone.
4:44 well i think it sbeautiful
together with the c9/11, 956 and the 905 evo were the most beautiful cars in group c 🤠
Well I certainly agree with you about the C9/11 and the 956!
@@automobilistic 🙏
@@automobilistic just came back to this vid. You make some really good ones man, even rewatchable 😁
The 905 is a fabulous car.
What people often forget is peugeot have built many amazing cars over the years
Such visually in style beautiful and modern looking car
First video = like
Second = subscription
Third = bell
Great content!
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying them
The most beautiful car in my life
And content 😉
I think it looks stunning.
enjoyed this story.
This man doesn’t miss. Amazing as usual
Another cracking video! Wonder if you could do a video on the Pikes Peak Pennzoil Celica, that'd be interesting 👌
Glad you enjoyed the video! I'll add the Pikes Peak Celica to the list, I'll have to do some research on it
The 905 Evo is the most beautiful Group C car ever in my opinion.
I think the 905s are some of the best looking Le Mans cars of all time. The silk cut xjr-9 is the most beautiful and so is the Bentley Speed 8
I miss old Group C LeMans Racecars.
Omg I didn’t see the other videos on your channel but if they are as good as this one you’re going to be my favorite motorsports guy
Thanks! Really glad you enjoyed the video! I hope you enjoy the others too :)
@@automobilistic yes they are all amazing thanks for your channel really
Always liked the look of the Peugeot especially with spats. The only new car our family had was a 1960 Peugeot station wagon here in the States. Learned to drive in that car with its column shifted four speed.
Thanks for the Gran Turismo OSTs,
McLaren only used Peugeot power for the 1994 season before the Mercedes era. Jordan used them for 95, 96 & 97 before switching to Mugen-Honda
Yes, I pinned a comment correcting the mistake
It is absolutely beautiful , it looks like a cute cartoon cat 🐱 which fits
The quality of your thumbnails is amazing
thanks! they're the first thing people see I try to get them right haha
the best looking protype ever
For me there are 2 reasons why the Mazda stands out. The noise of the thing. I SAID THE NOISE OF THE THING. and of course JOOOOOOHHHNNNYYYY Herbert. The greatest F1 driver of all time :)
Love Group C and miss it.....they say a gentleman can never be a beast or a monster.....that's before they seen and raced the
Jaguar XJR-9
I think the 905B is beautiful - looks a bit like a spaceship.
Wait DASSAULT LIKE THAT DASSAULT? THE FUCKING MIRAGE
Supercopter indeed one of my all time le mans design car, it's classic yet futuristic at the same time
The Gran tourismo soundtrack was a nice touch
One of the best sounded racecar, this V10 is a masterpiece. Personnaly, I love the style of the car, maybe it's biased because i'm French 🙃
God I love that era of racing.
I always loved the design of these Peugeot 905. The first one is the classiest, the Evo is years ahead, like an LMP1, and the Supercopter just is the most bonkers spaceship. It really would have become a legend and changed history if it hadn't been canned.
Good video but I have to pick you up on a historical point. The driving force behind the 3.5 litre class was not Bernie Ecclestone, it was Jean Marie Balestre who was head of the then motorsport governing body FISA until 1991. At the time of group C's demise, Bernie Ecclestone was the head of FOCA, the Formula One Constructors Association and had no control over sports cars.
I think you're right about the actual positions held, but to say Ecclestone had no control over sports cars isnt true. He had far reach in motorsport. It is pretty widely accepted in most publications that have written about the death of Group C that it was Ecclestone who was the driving force. The motivation? To get Mercedes and Peugeot into F1 (it worked). Of course confirming this 100% is difficult, its an in-tangible.
This is probably my favorite cer in F7
Easily the most beautifull groupC car ever
I loved the look of the 905b. It looked like a zspaceship compared to most of the other cars
I think they look beautiful.
The reason why it beat the TS010 was because of power... The aero on the TS010 was on another level, it's even more efficient than a Porsche 919 Hybrid. What a marvel.
The 905 evo II looks remember the today's LMP cars,
I remember this car from Grand Trasmo
I always thought the first 905 looked awkward and a bit old fashioned particularly compared to the Xjr14 from the same year. It reminds me of some of the cars that ran in the early days of group c that look like they belong in the previous decade, like the first WM's and the old Rondeau compared to the 956.
Yeah I agree, it looked much more like an 80s car than a 90s car. clearly it was behind the times because they felt the need to upgrade it pretty early on haha
@@automobilistic I think the 1993 version was far, far uglier. Well done Peugeot, that took some doing.
I want to pick out the WM car in 1988 did 407 km/h. Peugeot marketed it was 405 km/h to help sell the then relatively new Peugeot 405
That 905 is sick,Ngl
Next should be the mazda mxr1,please.
I like the car, it looks similar to other group c cars during the 1991 season though.
Back in the 80s motor sport was like the wild west.
The rule where just there to be smashed to bits with loop holes.
Every person involved at the time always want to bring up that era it must have been a great time to be a driver, engineer, boss.
Regardless of the bad bits like ending up in a fire ball.
all that exhaust/burnt fuel @0.25 is fucking glorious
I don't view the 905 as classically beautiful, I view it as very emblematic of a period of sports car racing that was completely bonkers. That alone makes it beautiful, in its own way.
It was actually the FIA that killed Group C to shore up the ailing F1 situation. Repeated rule changes and move to 3.5L category were designed to break the popularity based on customer connection to road-based engines. At the same time F1 was made a company... Follow the money...
Yes, I talk about Bernie Ecclestone's rule changes in the video...
@@automobilistic I agree. It was not Peugeot's fault by winning twice as implied in the title. Porsche have won 19 times...
@@thefastandthedead1769 No it was not Peugeot's fault, but choosing to compete when many others protested was a tacit endorsement of the new rules. Peugeot were not the only ones, but they were the primary beneficiary
@@automobilistic So your solution would have been for all manufacturers to pull out? That is what the F1 profiteer wanted!
What we do agree on is that it was a prop for waning F1 popularity. Just when it was a company belonging to shareholders. Follow the money.
@@thefastandthedead1769 what would have solved the problem? I guess the answer is nothing, I imagine Bernie had pretty well worked out how to kill sports car racing, and he did a pretty good job
For me 905 is the most beautifull group C
Correction: Peugeot didn't supply McLaren until 2000. They only did it in 1994. From then on, McLaren used Mercedes engines. Peugeot did, however, supply other F1 teams, like Jordan and Prost.
About the 905B, I think it's one of the most beautiful cars that ever raced at Le Mans.
Just to put the emphasis on who designed the body of the car, Dassault, those who made the french airforce main fighter jet for 50 years now, it's like if an american indycar was design by lockeed Martin...
I believe it was the chassis designed and built by Dassault, not the body. But their aerospace credibility certainly played a part in getting the contract I'm sure haha
The 1990/1991 905A looks pretty damn cool, as well as the 1993 905C
Do you know where I could find live footage from the time of the rolls royce paris dakar? I can only find still shots and it's not doing the car any justice!
Its been a long time since I've heard mention of the Dakar Rolls-Royce! To answer your question, I have no idea. Project Dream made a good video about the car, but I believe they only used still images. I know from my video about the Porsche 959 that Dakar footage is very hard to find, but I wish you the best of luck!
@@automobilistic thanks!
Didn't guess that one, in the post it was the 1991 version. I should have guessed with the big scoop
905 is most beautiful C car , I thing better then other , that have quite classic design
Wrc group B handshake 🤝 WEC Group C
The only bad thing I have about the 905 is that in Gran Turismo 4 it took weeks to change gears
yeah there was definitely something wrong with the car's gearbox in that game lol. No idea why they did that
@@automobilistic that's why the Toyota Minolta 88C-V was the best prototype in the game
I remember that too, strange that they ruin a le mans winning beast
That and the awful engine sound. It was nothing like the real thing which sounds like a F1.
The 905 is the perfect example of how literally military grade LMPs really are. If all our global conflicts could be solved through endurance racing, Le Mans would be the event to host it.
Their unused prototype could be used today, unless it's just a museum piece rip