To avoid any confusion, i say 'IP' a lot which refers to individual pursuit but also to intellectual property which is discussed near the end of the vid. Cheers
Brilliant video, I remember Chris Boardman came into a shop I once worked in, he talked about how carbon frames would take over. I didn't realise at the time he was going to go to the 92 Olympics and ride the Mike Burrows Lotus. Obviously things have progressed a great deal since the 90's. Thanks for the explanation, you made a difficult subject easy to follow.
As far as I could tell, they ditched that idea against GB, so the Hope Lotus was simply defeated by an off the shelf Argon 18(maybe with a custom cockpit).
@@kristianholgersen10 True, it's the previous model I believe, but good riddance, I think somebody riding the new model had a headset/cockpit malfunction on the new model at the Olympics? Haven't seen the footage, just heard it mentioned.
It's pretty clear that as long as you really scrunch your shoulders in put on a bling Palace X Poc Duck helmet and tape the front of your legs you'll absolutely smash the pursuit record
@@mitch9294 but no world record as far as I understand. The race gets stopped by this point. The German women nearly catched the GB women in team pursuit yesterday and destroyed the wr!
Something else to consider alongside the action of the forks and seat stays as splitter plates is the shielding effect. Since cylinder drag is highly sensitive to Reynolds number and turbulence intensity the wake given off by the fork can be tuned to optimally reduce the drag of the rider's legs or more likely the fork/leg/seat stay combination.
I can t wait to see where the triathlon bike designer are going to go with this concept if it works. Looking forward to crazy looking forks and seat stays...
Phenomenal video as always! Quick question: do the dual water bottles behind the seat(triathlon) also act as a splitter to separate the opposing vortices that are creating drag behind the seat?
I see very few videos on wake modification. Most things made aero are tear drop shaped, but as fairing the persons body is not permitted this has to do. I would love to see some aero paniers come to the commuter market that do the same. Proper HPV-style (not the STD, bit human powered vehicle), but in a practical upright package.
Loved the video. It's a no brainer, bikes don't ride themselves. Splitter plates have been around forever in the automotive world. There's a bunch of good SAE papers on them. That bike will be fast on the track, but not outside with transient yaw vectors. The fork has to be to manage interference drag with the wheel, it's way too in front of the legs to have any effect otherwise.
Just a thought. Going back to your video "your staggered wheel setup is wrong", could a deep section rim (or plate) rear wheel have a similar effect on turbulence in the wake of the riders legs?
It’s the same as the front wing end plates on f1 cars the brawn f1 car was an early outwash. The double diffuser got all the credit but the out wash end plates where as important
The Fes (as used by the Germans) also has a front fork with fork legs really far away from the front wheel for most of the length of the fork legs. Seems like they use the same concept as the Lotus bikes for that one.
I always wondered if putting helical strakes on standard cylindrical bike tubes would reduce the Von Karman vortices. Would there be an added benefit of reducing the instances of high speed wobble like you highlighted in your TT video?
Great comment. Yes helical strakes work but at very low Reynolds. Normally they're implementated in long chimneys to reduce VIV (vortex induced vibrations). At bike speeds and tube sizes you won't get karman vortex streets as the Re is much higher.
Actually, Ganna is riding on Pinarello bolide hr from 2014 so as the rest of his team, because italians are using this bike for 4km pursuits. Maat is only used in disciplines in which cyclists are using traditional drop bars.
Is there a weight difference between the Lotus and standard frames? I assume because of the wider forks they need to be stiffer and so heavier. Also do you see this approach come to road cycling or isn't it very affective under 50kph?
@@compt3ck is that light or heavy for a track frame? With all the power track cyclist produce I guess a 650g aethos will break but 1500g seems a bit heavy...
could you also review German team Fes, looks stunning and seems similar philosophy to lotus-hope, just bit more traditional. Also NZ team bike has few similar design features to guide the air around the knees?
Actually more if you count the entire research and development cost. This isn’t a mass market bike. They won’t recoup any of the development cost. They would only sell a few limited number of bikes just to be UCI compliant. So the large sticker price is in place to discourage potential buyers. So they wouldn’t lose more money manufacturing the bike for sale to the public.
@@iMadrid11 that about take into account devo cost is somewhat in a sense not true, its not like you make one and want to earn all the the costs in one go
Love the content. One thing to improve the video would be to keep the graphics up for a little bit longer, especially the technical stuff, while you are explaining them. Thanks!
When you mentioned aerodynamics of a tube, i imagined that the fork would purposely create vortices to deflect the air away from the legs. You get a small loss on frame aero, but a big gain in overall aero because the most drag inducing part (ie the leg) is in a low pressure zone ... It wouldn't be the first time engineers devellop solution that use vortices to reduce drag, it was done recently in F1 too
The Hope bike is an interesting mix of people looking at the inventors listed on the patent. Dr Neil Ashton is Principle Computational Fluid Dynamics Specialist SA at Amazon Web Services Chris Herbert is D2H Engineering (motorsport primarily) Tony Purnell BC Head of Technology (ex Jaguar & Redbull F1) Richard Matthews - Senior Composites Engineer (Cervelo, Lotus) Gregory Stevens - Performance Innovation Consultant at the EIS (ex TotalSim Ltd Engineer/Aerodynamicist)
Lotus was involved with an F1 team at some point are we sure Mcainsh doesn't/didn't work them. It's complicated, but, both Lotuses (The car maker and the RD/Think tank) where involved with F1 around the time that Patent was filed.
I didn't know about the prior art. If team GB does poorly they'll blame Hope Lotus. They've probably done all the testing and it is faster. Hope-fully it doesn't come apart.
A Dutch company has made this design earlier and patented it. Edit: just saw the end of the video, where this is discussed. Actually, Lotus applied voor a patent, but was denied, because of the existing patent. The Dutch company has lawyered up already.
Think there is no need for a license as the McCainsh patent is not infringed by the Hope Lotus design. Insteade of putting the handlebar on the lower horizontal fork connection 37 (which is protected, see 14:53) Hope Lotus put it on the upper fork connection. Simple workaround and another example how important it is to ride the claims thoroughly.
If he's ex-f1, he surely knows half of lotus just from geographical proximity. I do hope they licenced it from him. Wouldn't even be surprised if they left the prominent front fork there just to send their competitors on a wild goose chase instead of focusing on the rear triangle where the magic happens. Although, as this bike usually performs as a locomotive with 2, 3 or 4 riders in a row, maybe the front fork is only there to interact with the clean air produced by the rider in front.
@@PeakTorque the documentary is out, relatively interesting (not sure if the aero coach is an aerodynamist?) and will be good to hear your opinions on it. 👍
The first rider was using the ooold uksi bike you're correct. Maybe chosen for the lower weight, higher wake properties to benefit rider 2 and 3? Or they just didn't have enough lotus bikes
Its kinda limiting tho, the original Lotus track bike definitely looked like a bike and had kinda normal bike geometries, they should allow a bit more variation because now that we have computer aided design all bikes really are starting to look exactly the same
@@v0ldy54 yes, i agree they look all the same.. As a car guy, I've lamented aero cause the ultimate aero is an egg shape. All cars now look alike unless they compromise aero for style..
@@v0ldy54 Bikes have always looked the same, only in the brief period from ~2000 - ~2012 when the designers were looking for the best shape they could make with carbon did designs look different.
Looks like the GB team with the Lotus Hope was the 4th or 5th fastest team in the men’s pursuit. Maybe this is another example where the theory does not work in practice??????
It would just be a recumbent. These no need for downforce on bikes, all you care about is drag, therefore it will be the same drop shaped recumbent We already seen many times with the smallest crossection they can manage to get the package to
Interesting video. First time I have heard an suggestion that the long tail saddle is to smooth the flow behind the rider butt…good catch. Begs the question of why TT saddles are so short. Also would be interesting to see an analysis on why the failure of the Australian Argon 18. And a more in-depth study on the Malaysian WX-R bike. And the NZ Avanti. Finally, I think this hocus pocus bike is not as wonderful as it claimed…if Australia did not have a crash earlier, GB might have not made the finals.
now probably its placebo but everytime I have the asssaver on my bike I feel that its faster on flats. For 99% its placebo but I had this impression for years. This confirms it.
I want your take on the danish team controversial use of kinesio tape (supposedly for arrow gains, making the flow turbolent around the tibias in order to havi it detach later on the calf profile) Seems so much bullshit to me, since it's such a approssimative application and the usecase is so complex to study, but aerodynamics is not something you can eyeball (both for believers and detractors) so I would like to know your thoughts
could be a massive troll for psychological reasons, remember Brailsford and his rounder wheels and barrage of kidology he employed against other teams to upset them, when GB was picking up golds for fun, and getting dodgy hormones delivered by accident, losing its rider medical histories and getting the team doctor struck off by the BMA.
As far as I could tell(although not on the highest quality stream), they weren't actually using it against GB. So probably very minor gains if any, and mainly psychological, and they ditched it to avoid controversy, since they knew the effects were very minor.
Very interesting, but I think you are giving them too much credit. I'm a Hope fan boy, but I think they where just trying to reduce the frontal area and lined the forks up with the legs.
They are 'required' to sell it by the UCI. Whether or not they will is another matter. Aside from that, the physical sale is not important to the lawyers. They can claim other ways!
I stuck one on for a 2/3 in the rain and the BC Commissaire told me to remove it. Told him I'd get trench foot up my arse but he insisted. Not sure why, he didn't know either. Just a rule. But you see them in World Tour events on wet days so it's not a UCI thing.
@@Your_Paramour Drivetrains provided by manufacturers, modified by teams. Aero modified too. Bikes provided by manufacturers, aero modified by teams. It's not like there's a fucking engine in bike
@@conman1395 The drivetrains are not modified by teams, what is in the Williams is inside the works Mercedes. The engine isn't even run by the respective teams, it run by the engine manufactures engineers embedded within the teams. Every car's aero is completely bespoke. There is no stock in F1.
To avoid any confusion, i say 'IP' a lot which refers to individual pursuit but also to intellectual property which is discussed near the end of the vid. Cheers
2 minutes in and my nerd receptors are tingling. Kudos
Intellectual pursuit would be a great addition to the Mensa Omnium
India Pale.....IPA
Brilliant video, I remember Chris Boardman came into a shop I once worked in, he talked about how carbon frames would take over. I didn't realise at the time he was going to go to the 92 Olympics and ride the Mike Burrows Lotus. Obviously things have progressed a great deal since the 90's. Thanks for the explanation, you made a difficult subject easy to follow.
@@matthewturner9184 very good.
It seems like the real solution here is for the bikes to go around the velodrome without riders to mess up their aerodynamics
Or put them all on Raleigh Choppers...
That Hope Lotus bike aero gains was defeated by a low tech medical tape.
As far as I could tell, they ditched that idea against GB, so the Hope Lotus was simply defeated by an off the shelf Argon 18(maybe with a custom cockpit).
@@ZnakeTech not even the newest model . They are riding a Electron Pro from 2016.
@@kristianholgersen10 True, it's the previous model I believe, but good riddance, I think somebody riding the new model had a headset/cockpit malfunction on the new model at the Olympics? Haven't seen the footage, just heard it mentioned.
@@ZnakeTech Yes but not the original Argon 18 cockpit, it was a custom one from Bastion that failed.
I mean he literally says at the start of the video comparing nations results doesn’t work because the Danes just have far stronger riders
Another advantage of the forks you didn't mention. They block other teams when they're about to lap you
Peak Torque: You can’t put fairings on your legs
Denmark: Hold my beer
Real question, do the handlebars stay attached?
Im not entirely renishaw about that
Not if Australian
It's pretty clear that as long as you really scrunch your shoulders in put on a bling Palace X Poc Duck helmet and tape the front of your legs you'll absolutely smash the pursuit record
Unless you don’t see a rider in front of you
@@elijahkwon422 a catch is a win 🤷♂️
@@mitch9294 but no world record as far as I understand. The race gets stopped by this point. The German women nearly catched the GB women in team pursuit yesterday and destroyed the wr!
One of the best explanations that I’ve seen for this bike and it’s purpose. I appreciate your engineering insight. Cheers
I appreciate how much work you put into these videos.
Something else to consider alongside the action of the forks and seat stays as splitter plates is the shielding effect. Since cylinder drag is highly sensitive to Reynolds number and turbulence intensity the wake given off by the fork can be tuned to optimally reduce the drag of the rider's legs or more likely the fork/leg/seat stay combination.
Ganna is from Piemonte, he probably drinks Barlolo and Moscato while eating Nutella :P
I wonder of Jordan Schlansky is on his nutrition team
No Red Bull?! It gives you wings!
Hell yeah. The video I've been waiting for ever since I saw that crazy ass bike for the first time
I can t wait to see where the triathlon bike designer are going to go with this concept if it works. Looking forward to crazy looking forks and seat stays...
The New S-works has a wide bar to wheel front fork that looks like a set of aero triple clamp forks .
Great content. Keep up the great work, PT!
Where do I put tape on my bike to go faster? Asking for a friend who already has some on his shins
best cycling channel in a long long time
Phenomenal video as always! Quick question: do the dual water bottles behind the seat(triathlon) also act as a splitter to separate the opposing vortices that are creating drag behind the seat?
Or those little ass saver mudguards, something else that might be fine to use on the road suddenly being banned on the track.
Is their any aero benefit in partly or strategically leg shaving and if so have they banned that too?
I see very few videos on wake modification.
Most things made aero are tear drop shaped, but as fairing the persons body is not permitted this has to do. I would love to see some aero paniers come to the commuter market that do the same. Proper HPV-style (not the STD, bit human powered vehicle), but in a practical upright package.
You just know Chris Boardman has watched this video.
Great bike geeky engineering video on aero designs Enjoyed it.
Fascinating! Loved this.
Are you going to do a video on the snapped bars from the Australian team?
This is the channel I’ve been looking for. Perfect!
Loved the video. It's a no brainer, bikes don't ride themselves. Splitter plates have been around forever in the automotive world. There's a bunch of good SAE papers on them. That bike will be fast on the track, but not outside with transient yaw vectors. The fork has to be to manage interference drag with the wheel, it's way too in front of the legs to have any effect otherwise.
: I loved the picture of the Koga :) Their track bikes are pretty nifty as well.
Do kinesio tape actually offer any aero advantages? Nike came out with something similar, but they were angled at 45°. Thanks
Anything thats textured like a top tier skinsuit will probably help.
It's funny, in one specific clothing on my commuter bike i can hear this left-right oscillating vortex behind my head
would an ass savors fender offer similar vortex smoothing as a longer saddle?
Hopes request for patent did get rejected based on the patent you show. Article with the guys who filed the initial patent in Dutch media.
Just a thought. Going back to your video "your staggered wheel setup is wrong", could a deep section rim (or plate) rear wheel have a similar effect on turbulence in the wake of the riders legs?
Yep, a disc wheel is a big wake separator.
Thanks for the geeky deep dive
On a geek scale, that video was a 10
It’s the same as the front wing end plates on f1 cars the brawn f1 car was an early outwash. The double diffuser got all the credit but the out wash end plates where as important
The Fes (as used by the Germans) also has a front fork with fork legs really far away from the front wheel for most of the length of the fork legs. Seems like they use the same concept as the Lotus bikes for that one.
The FES bike is quite narrow compared to the Lotus, especially the rear stays.
Italy, first country wine producer with a lot of variaeties. Tourist: I'll have Chianti 😂
Personalmente, morellino di scansano.
Poi c'è anche il fatto che non capiscono un cazzo...
Nero D'avola for me Luca
Wine snobs are like bike snobs, redundant.
@@Fixin-To oh man, it's just a joke, have a laugh and stop whining on a youtube video 😜
I always wondered if putting helical strakes on standard cylindrical bike tubes would reduce the Von Karman vortices. Would there be an added benefit of reducing the instances of high speed wobble like you highlighted in your TT video?
Great comment. Yes helical strakes work but at very low Reynolds. Normally they're implementated in long chimneys to reduce VIV (vortex induced vibrations). At bike speeds and tube sizes you won't get karman vortex streets as the Re is much higher.
@@PeakTorque thanks for taking the time to answer my query. Hambini couldn’t be arsed.
That bike (with the rider on it )proved it's self right yesterday! 🥇
Still Team GB got shattered in the final of the teamsprint, in the end it's the riders
Yeah didn't help
Because power generated by rider...Even you put 100 million technologies and your rider sucks ,you can't do anything about it
Actually, Ganna is riding on Pinarello bolide hr from 2014 so as the rest of his team, because italians are using this bike for 4km pursuits. Maat is only used in disciplines in which cyclists are using traditional drop bars.
Correct, good point
Is there a weight difference between the Lotus and standard frames? I assume because of the wider forks they need to be stiffer and so heavier.
Also do you see this approach come to road cycling or isn't it very affective under 50kph?
A road TT version surfaced a few days ago
Wider should actually allow less material use in theory as it's better able to resist lateral forces. Although it's no longer a triangle so maybe not
I heard rumors of the Lotus frame being in the1500g range.
@@compt3ck is that light or heavy for a track frame? With all the power track cyclist produce I guess a 650g aethos will break but 1500g seems a bit heavy...
@@simonderoo9189 the weight just doesn't matter that much, so little acceleration going on, especially in the pursuit stuff
could you also review German team Fes, looks stunning and seems similar philosophy to lotus-hope, just bit more traditional.
Also NZ team bike has few similar design features to guide the air around the knees?
I think it’s not a Felt but more a costume made bike by a German research facility
FES not FELT of course, my mistake
Nice Seiko, don’t think I’ve noticed your watches before
Quality content as always
I learned a lot watching this
Me too!
Trip strips kineo tape on limbs appears to be legal according to Danes!
Hello, I'll be heading back to Hong Kong this Sunday and stay there for about a month, would you mind sharing some routes in Hong Kong? Thank you!
You can message me on insta. Enjoy quarantine...hope you have a trainer and Zwift!
I was expecting a video on the Aussie bar failure in the pursuit, that could have been far worse
Does this bike really cost a £100k ?
Actually more if you count the entire research and development cost. This isn’t a mass market bike. They won’t recoup any of the development cost. They would only sell a few limited number of bikes just to be UCI compliant. So the large sticker price is in place to discourage potential buyers. So they wouldn’t lose more money manufacturing the bike for sale to the public.
@@iMadrid11 actually, been to the Hope Tech website, you can buy them for over £15-20k
@@iMadrid11 that about take into account devo cost is somewhat in a sense not true, its not like you make one and want to earn all the the costs in one go
With regard to your comments with regard to the rear of the rider, why don’t they shape the seat to have a vertical tail plane???
Love the content. One thing to improve the video would be to keep the graphics up for a little bit longer, especially the technical stuff, while you are explaining them. Thanks!
Noted
He’s alive!
From what ive read the patent from Hope has been denied. Sounds like some legal trouble is coming down the pipe.
Yep they did the dirty.
@@treadtyred9742 Not neccesarily. Infringement of someone else's patent is completely unrelated to whether or not your own patent is allowable.
Taking notice of the track events, what is the best single speed frameset and wheelset? Thanks for any feedback
Have you seen the tape on the danish squad.. That is a textbook trip layer!
"A cylinder, to put it bluntly, is a bad shape"
Forgetting about the boring dudes at UCI, is their a way to add aero to an existing front fork, that would make to Rider+Bike more aero ?
0:56 Are they wearing plastic shoes?
When you mentioned aerodynamics of a tube, i imagined that the fork would purposely create vortices to deflect the air away from the legs. You get a small loss on frame aero, but a big gain in overall aero because the most drag inducing part (ie the leg) is in a low pressure zone ...
It wouldn't be the first time engineers devellop solution that use vortices to reduce drag, it was done recently in F1 too
The Hope bike is an interesting mix of people looking at the inventors listed on the patent.
Dr Neil Ashton is Principle Computational Fluid Dynamics Specialist SA at Amazon Web Services
Chris Herbert is D2H Engineering (motorsport primarily)
Tony Purnell BC Head of Technology (ex Jaguar & Redbull F1)
Richard Matthews - Senior Composites Engineer (Cervelo, Lotus)
Gregory Stevens - Performance Innovation Consultant at the EIS (ex TotalSim Ltd Engineer/Aerodynamicist)
@@SamHocking those people make the "we made vortices to fight a vortex" even more plausible ... Thanks for the info
wonder if ashton lambie got his hands on one of these for his august 18th attempt to go sub 4
He’s riding an argon 18
Lotus was involved with an F1 team at some point are we sure Mcainsh doesn't/didn't work them. It's complicated, but, both Lotuses (The car maker and the RD/Think tank) where involved with F1 around the time that Patent was filed.
Weis a small manufacturer in New York does that dropped seatstay in steel
Ganna once again proved that legs matter more than everything else... Other than that I think that this Lotus is a sick bike!
As long as the riders aren't the equivalent of a Rover K series you might see some decent results, maybe a podium.
I didn't know about the prior art. If team GB does poorly they'll blame Hope Lotus. They've probably done all the testing and it is faster. Hope-fully it doesn't come apart.
Malaysian pocket rocketman for the win💪💪
A Dutch company has made this design earlier and patented it.
Edit: just saw the end of the video, where this is discussed. Actually, Lotus applied voor a patent, but was denied, because of the existing patent. The Dutch company has lawyered up already.
Think there is no need for a license as the McCainsh patent is not infringed by the Hope Lotus design. Insteade of putting the handlebar on the lower horizontal fork connection 37 (which is protected, see 14:53) Hope Lotus put it on the upper fork connection. Simple workaround and another example how important it is to ride the claims thoroughly.
If he's ex-f1, he surely knows half of lotus just from geographical proximity. I do hope they licenced it from him. Wouldn't even be surprised if they left the prominent front fork there just to send their competitors on a wild goose chase instead of focusing on the rear triangle where the magic happens. Although, as this bike usually performs as a locomotive with 2, 3 or 4 riders in a row, maybe the front fork is only there to interact with the clean air produced by the rider in front.
I would like to have seen the bike as well as narrative.
I wonder what ur take is now that it won all of the races it was in?
Pro tip: leave for the race day one week old hairs on the front of the legs/arms
GCN is doing a vid on the cervelo vs Hope/lotus, coming out soon I think.
Knowing GCN though, it's going to be absolute drivel.
@@sluukkonen lol, probably try to sell you something at the same time.
Will use my frienfs gcn+ to watch it. When they get out of rehab for being a crazy.
@@PeakTorque the documentary is out, relatively interesting (not sure if the aero coach is an aerodynamist?) and will be good to hear your opinions on it. 👍
I noticed that not even every member of team GB was riding this ridiculous frame in the final of the teamsprint 😮
The first rider was using the ooold uksi bike you're correct. Maybe chosen for the lower weight, higher wake properties to benefit rider 2 and 3? Or they just didn't have enough lotus bikes
Kinesiology tape is the new splitter plate. Just saying.
in before hambini claims the bottom bracket is out of tolerance
you can use medical tape to shim out the gap. I'm asking for a Danish friend.
@@Hambini Glad to see you're alive! Look forward to some updates from you when you can !
I do actually like that the UCI is so strict that the bike must still look like a bike with the triangles.. It keeps the sport about the human.
Maybe they should go all the way and standardise the bikes, like in Japanese Keirin.
Its kinda limiting tho, the original Lotus track bike definitely looked like a bike and had kinda normal bike geometries, they should allow a bit more variation because now that we have computer aided design all bikes really are starting to look exactly the same
@@v0ldy54 yes, i agree they look all the same.. As a car guy, I've lamented aero cause the ultimate aero is an egg shape. All cars now look alike unless they compromise aero for style..
@@v0ldy54 Bikes have always looked the same, only in the brief period from ~2000 - ~2012 when the designers were looking for the best shape they could make with carbon did designs look different.
Can't say I agree.
I regard UCI as old conservative dude's, scared of innovation and progress.
Looks like the GB team with the Lotus Hope was the 4th or 5th fastest team in the men’s pursuit. Maybe this is another example where the theory does not work in practice??????
I would like to see what someone like Adrian Newey would come up with if they design a bike without any of the UCI rules
It would just be a recumbent. These no need for downforce on bikes, all you care about is drag, therefore it will be the same drop shaped recumbent We already seen many times with the smallest crossection they can manage to get the package to
Needs more sticky uppy bits!
Interesting video. First time I have heard an suggestion that the long tail saddle is to smooth the flow behind the rider butt…good catch. Begs the question of why TT saddles are so short.
Also would be interesting to see an analysis on why the failure of the Australian Argon 18. And a more in-depth study on the Malaysian WX-R bike. And the NZ Avanti.
Finally, I think this hocus pocus bike is not as wonderful as it claimed…if Australia did not have a crash earlier, GB might have not made the finals.
0:10 also some pizza, a Mandolino and the support of the Italian mafia
Makes me wonder if you could put Ass Savers on your saddle and use them as splitter plates
Yep. Probably would work. Great idea!
now probably its placebo but everytime I have the asssaver on my bike I feel that its faster on flats. For 99% its placebo but I had this impression for years. This confirms it.
@@raphaeltiziani7476 For sure just placebo, the gain is so marginal there is no way you would notice it
@@elijahkwon422 notice or measure ? Big difference, i don't notice my aero wheels or 34 cm wide bars, but they are quicker.
@@kc3718 aero wheels are very noticable imho
I want your take on the danish team controversial use of kinesio tape (supposedly for arrow gains, making the flow turbolent around the tibias in order to havi it detach later on the calf profile)
Seems so much bullshit to me, since it's such a approssimative application and the usecase is so complex to study, but aerodynamics is not something you can eyeball (both for believers and detractors) so I would like to know your thoughts
They probably found it was faster in the wind tunnel, if so why wouldn't they use it?
could be a massive troll for psychological reasons, remember Brailsford and his rounder wheels and barrage of kidology he employed against other teams to upset them, when GB was picking up golds for fun, and getting dodgy hormones delivered by accident, losing its rider medical histories and getting the team doctor struck off by the BMA.
@@kc3718 Brailsford should be permanently banned from the sport.
As far as I could tell(although not on the highest quality stream), they weren't actually using it against GB. So probably very minor gains if any, and mainly psychological, and they ditched it to avoid controversy, since they knew the effects were very minor.
@@ZnakeTech the UCI got involved and disallowed them after teams protested the first day
Very interesting, but I think you are giving them too much credit. I'm a Hope fan boy, but I think they where just trying to reduce the frontal area and lined the forks up with the legs.
No pasta no legs
Well I think now that the results are in at the Olympics I think the hocus pocus bike is exactly that….
I have no doubt its fast. But Danes and 1 x Ganna are just stronger.
Doesn't matter if there's a patent if they're not selling it.
They are 'required' to sell it by the UCI. Whether or not they will is another matter. Aside from that, the physical sale is not important to the lawyers. They can claim other ways!
Some good research. Back to the drawing board for Argon though. Australia should have stuck to the BH.
The danes are on Argon
And the bars were Australian 3d printed, not Argon factory items.
@@the318pop , yes you are correct. I just found that out today. Bars were made by another manufacturer. So I didn't do my research 😩.
www.ridemedia.com.au/features/bastion-cycles-statement-on-australian-track-bikes/
it looks gorgeous tho.
Let's.. agree to disagree on that one.
I wonder if the bike is even UCI complainant the hocus pocus
Avanti did this years ago. 2016.
“You can’t fair you’re legs”. Has anyone considered subcutaneous fairing implants?
I have. Its called drinking more booze, getting fatter, and sculpting the fat growth in to Naca shapes. It has its downsides on the hilly stages.
And some massive butt implants in the shape of a superbike tail 👍
Looks like the Danes are trying "something" with the tape up their shins though. No idea what's going on there.
Use rows of body piercings to create turbulence under skin suit. Ouch!
selective leg hair shaving vortex generation
All that hocus pocus for 7th 🇬🇧
Howd that Aussie one end up? 🥉
How many people will you see in your next race with an ass saver on their bike?
I stuck one on for a 2/3 in the rain and the BC Commissaire told me to remove it. Told him I'd get trench foot up my arse but he insisted. Not sure why, he didn't know either. Just a rule. But you see them in World Tour events on wet days so it's not a UCI thing.
might be good for time trials, no good for sprinting.
At least the british bikes created an excellent slipstream for the german women’s team to achieve another world record. 🇩🇪🚅💨💨💨💨
Shocking failure wasn't it. Love to know what Raoul thinks of it. Boa dials or dials in general are not really aero.
3 out 12 gold track cycling Tokyo
Just use some tape :-D
Please do not give UCI any ideas about stuff to ban.
They are already crazy enough.
Why don't we just make it more like F1 and take stock bikes and let the teams design their own airfoils
How does that make it more like F1? F1 isn't a spec series, it has a rulebook with design constraints.
@@Your_Paramour Drivetrains provided by manufacturers, modified by teams. Aero modified too. Bikes provided by manufacturers, aero modified by teams. It's not like there's a fucking engine in bike
@@conman1395 The drivetrains are not modified by teams, what is in the Williams is inside the works Mercedes. The engine isn't even run by the respective teams, it run by the engine manufactures engineers embedded within the teams. Every car's aero is completely bespoke. There is no stock in F1.