BSA Starfire 250, 1970 - Motorcycle Review
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2017
- One of the final models from BSA, this 250 cc, four-stroke single is a pretty-looking bike. This is a short review, with film of the bike on the road and an owner's perceptions.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I think this is a better looking machine than the new, so called gold star.
My first bike. 1971. Learned how to replace the clutch. Great memories.
Great video I do own a 1970 BSA Starfire USA version in Orange a great classic motorcycle. Bob from the USA
+BMWDCK75
Hi Bob, Glad you liked the little film. I'd never really looked a Starfire before and it's a really nice bike. We had some feedback that the lights can be made to work well so that was interesting to hear! I hope you have plenty of fun with yours. Best regards, Simon.
This is quickly becoming my favorite Motorcycle channel to watch
Everyone wants the big 650 twins but one of these would be a cool commuter provided the maintenance was kept up to it.The bike in vid is a credit to the owners attention to detail.
I had a Starfire in 1969, while I was in high school. It was great fun and a pleasure to ride. I sold it just before I went into the Army. I've had many bikes since then and finally ended up with a 1968 BSA 650cc Firebird Scrambler. My 68' has been totally redone and is beautiful.
Good to hear you're still riding a BSA!
@@sgch101 Love BSA!
Very good video. I had a 1968 Starfire, as regards lighting, I found the 12 volt system excellent. Thanks for uploading.Safe riding.
He is a very happy owner. This little big bike is surely a hunter in spirit( Ariel).
The lights on my starfire are perfect id go anywhere in the dark on mine
I had a BSA Starfire 250cc in late 70's, unfortunately the only problem with these bikes was they had an aloy oil pump. I did a journey from London to Cardif about 200 miles. Half way thru the journey oil pump conked out and the Big ends went. Later on i got a steel pump installed and i did the journey again to Cardif and i arrived without any mechanical issues, i was very proud of my Starfire....i had a sore bum though .
This takes me back. I bought one new in 1971. Its the only new vehicle I have ever bought. I ran it in along the country roads around Morpeth but then moved on to Triumph T100 which was my favourite bike.
I have owned a 1968 Starfire for a long time, over hauled the engine including the crankshaft sludge trap in the right hand crankshaft flywheel, never miss that on a rebuild or it can cut off the oil supply to the big end if it blocks with sludge. The bike handles a goes a treat, as said in the video they have a lovely exhaust note.
Thanks for the tip, Mike! Cheers, Simon.
I owned one of these in 1982 when I was aged 17, I used to ride it at night in the rain and I can confirm that the lights are not good. Mine was pretty unreliable but that that was mostly down to my ham fisted attempts to maintain it without the proper tools or knowledge.. I ended up stripping the threads that hold the rocker box onto the head, it came loose and ended up bending a con rod with a dropped valve.. I never got round to fixing it. At the time it was practically worthless, but I feel that if I had done a better job of looking after it that it was capable of being a good bike. I certainly remember it being capable of motorway speeds, it wasn’t slow but it was agricultural I think is the best description. Comparing it to the refinement of say a CB250N Honda of the time was like night and day. it was however, beautiful. It was beautiful then and they are beautiful now.. I’d love to own another even if I can’t imagine using it much.
I've still got mine I bought in 1976, when I was 17.
Similar story, it was beyond my teenage skills, but it was left in the back of Dad's shed until, together with my brother, we restored it during lockdown.
Now just waiting for the DVLA to pull their finger out with a V5c and I'll ride it again after 45 years!
We're just starting the restoration of my dad's 1968 BSA Starfire...after sitting for 42 years.
Good luck, hope it all goes well!
Simon Hadden She’s running! Great seeing this old bike come back to life. Project is a “go”!
@@AaronVorwerk Great to hear. That' a real encouragement to complete the project - really exciting!
@@AaronVorwerk Did you do anything to increase the reliability of the big end bearings?? Well done with your restoration - you should post a video - if you have already, please send me a link!
@@Diddleywah She's in parts right now-parts being powder coated, plated, replacements ordered, speedo being restored, etc. So far, we're planning to rebuild everything in stock form (using new bushing/bearings/seals throughout and with a very slight cylinder bore). I'm reading the Rupert Ratio manual carefully to determine whether to make any changes.
Had one in 1968, loved it. Now riding a royal Enfield C5 and it reminds me of this. Good times.
My 1st bike was a 1957 BSA 250 bought in 1964. Lots of problems with electronics and the terrible Amal carb. It was a blast hen it did run which was not to often. Had many since then but that being my 1st I've never forgotten that little bike.
me too
I purchased a new BSA Starfire from Schweiso Bros. a motorcycle dealer in Dartford Kent way back in 1971, I loved the looks of the bike but it seized up after only a few hundred miles, the reason for the seizure turned out to a manufacturing fault but Schweiso Bros. Sales Manager Mr. Overhill would not honour the 3 month warranty the bike came with saying that the seizure was down to me abusing the bike, which was rubbish but there was little I could do so I stripped the engine down myself and repaired it.
I was never impressed with the 250cc engine which was harsh noisy and underpowered and eventually after about 10k miles it broke a con rod and destroyed much of the engine, this time it was my fault as I had been using 9k rpm to try and stay with my friends Honda CB250. I rebuilt the engine once more and sold the bike as I had at that time taken over my older brothers 1971 BSA A50 Royal Star, a bike again purchased from Schweiso Bros and which again turned out to have a manufacturing fault in as much as the engine vibrated so hard that it would not rev beyond 5k, once again, the notorious Mr. Underhill refused my older brothers warranty claim for the fault saying that 'the bike was not 'run in sufficiently', needless to say when the bike was 'run in sufficiently' the 90 day warranty had expired! and the rotten Underhill laughed as he told up to 'fuck off', I ended up putting a 650 Thunderbolt engine in the Royal Star and had a lot of good times with it.
I think that the quality control at BSA in 1971 left a lot to be desired but I think that the way both my brother and I were treated by the dealer who sold us the bikes was diabolical, the one happy note in that sorry experience came one day when I saw Underhill crash an Ariel 3 moped and what's more the crash was entirely due to his own incompetence, at the time I was walking along the pavement on Dartford's East Hill Road and the accident happened right in front of me, he did not hurt himself (much) and I often think of the look on his face as he surveyed the damaged (brand new) Ariel 3 laying on it's side in the gutter where I sincerely think it belonged.
Fascinating to hear about the bikes when new and such a shame that BSA's quality control was so poor. The sales manager must have been a thoroughly unpleasant chap!
Hey Simon, yeah he could be a complete bastard at times unless of course he was trying to talk you into a sale but no doubt he was only doing what he was paid to do by the brothers Schweiso back in those far off days getting on for 50 years ago now!.
By the bye my 1971 Starfire B25 had the reg. XKE 41J and my 1971 Royal Star A50 had the reg. VKN 46J,
I wonder if either of those bikes still exist?
Mr. Donald Overhill purchased his own motorcycle shop when he took over Morrisseys Honda shop in Dartford after Schweiso's wound up (I think) in1972, he called his shop Underhill Motorcycles and was located just along the same road (Lowfield Street) in the direction of Dartford. A few years later my younger brother purchased a Honda CJ 250T from Underhill's and needless to say had issues with them, not to do with a warranty claim but due to very poor workmanship when they serviced his CJ 250, which was a great little bike as I recall, very smooth and reliable (unlike either of the BSA's)
I progressed on to a (used) 1971 Norton 750 Commando bought off a good friend Ian Hunter, the Commando was a dream of a bike after the BSA's, it was so smooth, so fast and actually quite reliable if looked after,
on a run up to a Scottish rally in 1976 my sole Norton was the most reliable and the fastest bike in a group of mainly big Japanese bikes and yet still averaged about double the fuel mileage of any of them.
That should read Overhill Motorcycles (brain fart)
No problem!
Very good to watch just sold Sid a Starfire
I really enjoyed watching this ...many thanks for posting it. Lovely gentleman and well edited.
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the comments!
Great vid! I don't personally ride, but I've always found motorcycles interesting, and your channel in particular especially!
Glad you liked the little film.
(It took me seven years to get round to learning to ride a motorcycle - most of my family and friends thought I was mad!)
I have one of those in orange with a high pipe. 6,000 original miles for$250. My best bargain in my collection of vintage British motorcycles. Not so shiny paint but still good.
An enjoyable and informative video Simon. For some years I rode alongside a '69 Starfire with local BSA club members and always liked the styling and the way it went. When it finally came up for sale I gave in to temptation. Currently doing some repairs ready for rides in 2019.
I'd never really studied one of these until we made the film. I found it a rather nice bike - quite a practical sort of machine with pleasant styling. I've seen your posts on the BSA Facebook page and it all seems very interesting! I hope it goes well.
Hibernating in the workshop just now Simon but all being well I will be sharing the result with other BSA single fanciers this spring.
another fantstic video!!
As a kid I saw a new one in a bike shop - it had a warning label on the handlebars that read "Warning - this bike is fitted with an 8" twin leading break"
Oh dear!
@@sgch101 probably a sales gimmick - a bold notice attached to the brake lever
So pleased to come across this video and this channel. I recognised those roads instantly. The last time I drove over that humpback bridge on a motorcycle was in 1975 on a suzuki 380 triple. Always loved BSA bikes but by the time I passed my test, the days of the Brit bike were almost over - Japanese bikes ruled.
This was sold in the U.S. as a B25 model, starting with a Triumph branding on the original C15 layout. There is only marginal mechanical similarity as this uses improved oiling and bearings over the original C15s which came out in '59 or so in the U.S. I worked at a dealership that sold several of these and they were a livable machine though I wasn't aware they were supposed to put out 25 or so horsepower. This one seems a bit louder than the ones we sold.
I'd never really looked at these bikes before we filmed this one and I liked it. It certainly seemed to be a lively bike and you're right about the exhaust note. This example is definitely louder than standard.
If it ever starts blowing the main fuse every time you turn the ignition on, disconnect the zener diode and see if it stops doing it. If the thing malfunctions, it sends extra current straight to earth instead of converting it to heat. It used to drive people bonkers trying to work out where the short was.
Thanks, that's handy to know!
The zenor diode was fitted to stop the new fangled alternaters frying the battery etc. It was never ideal. It wasn't designed to last 50 years either. A modern inexpensive solid state regulator/rectifier replaces most of the bothersome bits and simplifies everthing.
Unit construction does not mean the oil is shared by the motor and gearbox, it means the crankcases and gearbox shell are one casting. Pre-unit means separate castings, and you will find very few (if any) of the older British bikes shared the lubrication a la Japanese bikes.
Had a '68 Starfire. Great bike! Started easy, ran great, cruised at 65mph. Never let me down.
Thanks for the comment. Really interesting to hear that bike was reliable.
@@sgch101 I used to ride Brit Bikes until parts became hard to find and too expensive so I learned to keep them alive. No. 1, keep the oil changed or put an oil filter on it. The B-25, like all major Brit Bikes, had rod insert bearings. Dirty oil and too many revs equal rods through the cases. Major cause of B-25's blowing up was over-revving! Also, if one insists on using points ignition, use only Lucas points and USE A TIMING LIGHT! If you can't find Lucas points, install a Boyer-Brandsen points eliminator and USE A TIMING LIGHT! Not using a timing light to get the timing EXACTLY right and high revs equal holes in the piston. Also, put a K&N filter on and keep it on. For the street it'll run as well as a velocity stack and keep everything clean. Wiring. Leave it alone unless you really know what your doing! By 68 to 70 British wiring was fairly good. My '68 still had mostly stock wiring in it and I left it alone. Exhaust system. Leave it alone. They're straight through mufflers and work fine. If you must change 'em, use a Super Trapp. If you must change something for more performance change the gearing. One LESS tooth on the countershaft sprocket or 3-4 on the rear will improve acceleration AND top end. Like all Brit Bikes they were over geared. If you must change the cam, get a 71 up B-50MX cam, if you can find one. I believe it needed a spacer to fit on a 68-70 B-25. You still won't beat Jap 250's but it'll make a nice runner. I'm old now. Got rid of my BSA singles years ago and got no one to pass what I learned on to. If any one can use what I've put down here by all means use it. I miss my '68 Starfire. I never took it on a cross-country but many week enders left pleasant memories. Good luck.
One of my first bikes, I had a 67 in late 69 early 70
Loved the look of this bike in the late 60s but out of reach. Had to do with a B25SS with a hairline crack in the inner crankcase that took months for Elite motors in Tooting to diagnose during which time it was impossible to start. When it went it was glorious for the sound and the torque but whereas some bikes worked on m.p.g. I had to work on OPM (oil pumps per month) and BEA ( Big ends again!)
When i was serving my time about 25 years ago, and riding a triumph 350 t90, the design engineer, who rode a rudge, but more often a bsa 350 goldstar in scrambler trim, told me that tuning old british bikes for more and more power is the road to ruin. Everything gets stressed, the bike vibrates more, things break and drop off. The factories did this too, which is where the reputation of British as being shakers and unreliable comes from.
Nice soft tune and regular maintenance and they are transformed.
Couldn't agree more! They very reliable once properly sorted and used as their original designers intended. Running everywhere flat out is definitely the road to ruin.
Track down an Excelsior Manxman 250.
Had one same color. Wish I still did.
Did you have one when it was relatively new? How did you find it to ride?
Simon Hadden : I was 19 back in 1971 and it was used. Typical British bike. Lights sucked and stubborn to start.
I was my second bike after my BSA 441.
Used to have one.
Reverse cone megaphone exhaust used to wake up the neighbours every morning.
Couple of issues with these. Big end shell bearings used to fail, also gearbox mainshaft used to break behind the kickstart ratchet gear (as mine did requiring an engine strip down).
80mph? Nah, just over 70 if your lucky and best only for a short time.
Another issue was vibration. My exhaust “silencer” fell off one day after both securing bolts vibrated loose. Another day blatting across Romney marsh in Kent on a spirited ride out, my pal following flagged me down as my rear number plate and light assembly was hanging off, again due to vibration.
These bikes need lock washers or nyloc nuts on everything!
I sold it to a mate who treated it a bit more harshly than I did and seized the engine within a few months.
I did like the bike though.
Great to hear about your experiences - really interesting. Several people have mentioned that the fixings kept coming loose! Cheers, Simon.
Great video but I had to chuckle slightly when you said 'Very Reliable' - I had the Orange Version in the early 1970's with the exhaust pipe down the centre of the bike - presumably intended for 'Trail Riding'. My Bantam 'Bushman' was the same and also an Orange (and white) tank. I currently run a Harley Superglide ('04) but would say that my Starfire was far more comfortable and enjoyable to ride, if only it had the Harley reliability, I would call the Starfire the best bike ever with it's sound, torque, looks and comfort. Alas, each trip was a gamble whether the 'Big Ends' would last the trip!! Mine did not have a Rev counter, which might have helped me keep within the sensible range and I was younger, so may have pushed the limits a bit.....
My mate had a BSA Barracuda B25, the forerunner of the Starfire. This rarely gets a mention. That was orange and i think had a glass fibre tank rather than the steel Starfire tank.
Very good bike, and it's worth
Always wanted one....
I had a 69 model. The headlight was very good. Anything over 60mph and the handle bars felt like you were trying to hang on to the fat end of base ball bats. After I threw a rod (I used to race it on short circuit dirt tracks as well as day to day transport). I put in an ex army B40 engine which I got from the wreckers. It was a much better bike after that.
Sounds good.
Nice bike...
When thrashed it was not unknown for the con rod to split part way up from the big end.
I had a 1968 Starfire, and the same thing happened. I believe in 1970 they fitted the Triumph rod. I wasn't giving the bike the stick when it split either, otherwise I found the bike very good for a 250.
Sweet.
Halogen bulbs are now available to fit these headlights
I had a Besa C15 250cc in the mid nineteen sixties. That was until the front wing of a car took it from under me.😁😁👍👍
He says it’s a physically small bike, but yet it has a higher seat height than most bikes aimed at tall riders. For example, the seat height is higher than a Honda Varadero 125 which is a starter bike aimed at taller riders.
i literally just bought one of these and compared to modern bikes, it is small and heavy.
my mate bought one brand new ....I thought he was a God!
IMHO The BSA C15 was not fantastic but a better bike than the Starfire in terms of reliability.. Superb styling imitated the brilliant (and now exotically rare) 441cc BSA B44 VR but lacked the bigger bikes all roller big end and and timing side bearings. These are not rare as the owner claims. They are not seen out and about much because they spend most of there their lives as basket cases. The rider is smart to stick to the "mid range" revolutions. These engines came apart over 6000 RPM and there was usually no rev counter. Someone wrote to the BSA owners Club to ask what special service tools were required to strip the engine. The Club treasurer replied that all you need to take a Starfire apart is a duel carriageway. You may find Rupert Ratios definitive book on these engines most informative
Although the big end and conrods were different between the B25 and B44 the B25 engine did have the same type and size of crank main bearings as the B44 engine, a ball race bearing on the timing side and a roller bearing on the drive side.
With its superior suspension, brakes, frame and performance the B25 Starfire was in a different league to the rather crude C15, as well as some other British 250cc bikes.
In any case, a lot of British bikes of the period would come apart when ridden hard above 6000 RPM.
I have always been a fan of British bikes and still have a few, including a B25 Starfire that is still in one piece and running after over 50 years.
@@lathejack I recommend that if you don't believe me you might acquire and study a copy of Rupert Ratio's definative book on BSA 4 stroke unit engines
@@alancox1444 If I may quote Rupert Ratio: "...a cursory look through this manual may wrongly give the impression that it is simply a catalogue of Unit Single disasters due to the fact that it highlights the problems and pitfalls that are normally glossed over or omitted entirely from workshop manuals. Consider then how other British and foreign motorcycles might look by comparison if viewed through the same harsh but realistic light." He later adds, "...the BSA Unit Single is a viable proposition...there are no serious drawbacks afflicting the Unit Singles which would prevent them being used on today's roads for whatever purpose..."
I had a C11 and then a B31 looking back why was it so complicated to stick indicators on. Turning right was always hazardous.
Good that you survived! It does seem strange that they didn't bother with indicators but I guess the traffic wasn't generally so heavy when they were in production. It still seems odd though! Thanks for the comment.
Did you say 80? Sorry I relistened and I think that's what you said. I had my '68 say over 90 on the speedo. Maybe it wasn't accurate at that speed but I know it was accurate at 60.Comfortable at 60 all day.
Yes, it was 80 but 60mph would be more comfy!
I believe you. for instance a Tiger Cub had a C11 approaching a hernia, and a C10 a doormat.
The lights are poor? I had one back in the 70's and the lights on mine where considered good at that time being an early 12 volt system.
For the say they wasn't a half bad bike, and very easily modded.
Thanks for the comments! Another former owner has mentioned that the original lights were quite good. I guess this example's lights were a bit tired and could be sorted out, given time. Hope you liked the rest of the film.
I think we have all just got used to brighter lighting, both in cars and bikes. I had various tired old British bikes in the period the B25 came out and the lights were terrible - mostly 6v systems. My pal had the Starfire and it really did have good lighting for the time - far better than my c15 and A10. I think both were 6v systems. The A10 had a dynamo driven by a tiny chain from the camshaft I think - not sure now but I remember the chain - very delicate looking, but since it was running in a covered and oily environment they just kept working.
Yes. I had a '68 and I thought it was a good light. Way more light than cars had at the time.
Motorcycles unlimited have a reconditioned one for £5989
I wanna pinch it.
Never had the Star fire but owned the Barracuda never could see the difference sure someone knows
I had a Barracuda in the late 60s don’t know when or why they changed the name.
@@JollyGraham They changed the name because if conflict with the name of an American car. For one year they had a roller big end and a fibreglass tank then they changed it o a shell bearing which sometimes failed when thrashed.fibreglasstanks were banned about 1969.
80 mph! down a very steep hill..
Too much compression can lead to premature wear and piston melting.
Those no more had 25 horsepower than I have 6 testicles. A Ducati 250 Mark 3 had 25, those would do the ton and absolutely fly by a Starfire.
I'd believe 17-18 ......maybe. With good tires these are surefooted little bikes on the road though, and they certainly look good.
I was prying one apart just today, it nipped up the piston years ago and looks to have spent 30 years carefully stored in a pond.
But it'll chug again.
Perhaps it's over 20hp. My B31 has 17hp and the Starfire was much nippier than that! I hope you get yours sorted. You never know - you may find that you're better endowed than you think!
@@sgch101 No worries about that mate, as I'm a cunning linguist.
As a Teen I remember two lads having a race at night from the cafe to Mostyn and back - one had a Starfire the other a Ducati 250 - I guess it was about 12 miles round trip - The Ducati won by about 30 seconds - it stuck in my mind because the Ducati's downpipe was glowing cherry red
@@scheusselmensch5713 You'll be needing the twin leader brake then to pull up quickly.
@@trevortrevortsr2 Great experience.
Brother had one. Beautiful bike but underpowered and extremely unreliable. I wish I had it now just for putting around on.
Yes it would be nice to potter about on one. I guess many of the reliability problems can be fixed now too! Thanks for the comment.
I had one too. I'll be generous and just say it was fragile. Also had two other B.S.As an A10 which was great and an early A65 which was OK. Wish I had kept the A10.
@@geoffhalsey2184 The early A65 with a shorter wheelbase is so different to the A10 we know and respect for open road stability.
i used to fly past these on my cz175 lol at least that could do the ton.
100 mph ? your dreaming
😂😂😂 maybe it would to the ton if you pushed it off a cliff top.
The power quoted for the Starfire (25hp) is VERY optimistic, around 20 is probably closer, your CZ would have had around 12.
I couldn't get mine to the ton but got an indicated 90 mph (indicated on accompanying yam xj600 and suzuki 1100)) using castrol R in the autolube system, retarding the ignition to 2mm (at the piston) BTDC and a grade colder spark plug.
25 HP? No! More like 16.
The stupid sounding music indicates a 1950s state of mind. 😎