I ran this motor with a battery that's too small.

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  • čas přidán 12. 04. 2023
  • In this video, we pair up the MotorGuide R3 (30 pounds of thrust) with the Lachy 12-volt 18AH lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery. This is quite a small battery to be running a trolling motor. Some would say TOO small. But is it dangerously small? Or can you get away with it?
    MotorGuide R3: amzn.to/40Wq7ex
    Lachy LiFePO4 Battery: amzn.to/3GBWpTW
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    AJ's personal battery recommendations:
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    Best Holiday 2023 Deal:
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    $117 per kWh - incredible!
    Current Sponsorships as of the publish date of this video:
    None
    Milwaukee Angle Grinder Giveaway Rules: bit.ly/anglegrindergiveaway (Google Doc)
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 67

  • @johntretin8991
    @johntretin8991 Před 5 měsíci +1

    I live in Bullhead city and have just subscribed. I have to say that your videos are very interesting and informative. Top draw on the way you explain why batteries & trolling motors do what they do, since have a small plastic bass boat. Please keep up the great job you are doing to help me and others understand the importance of the volt / amp world.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 5 měsíci +1

      Thanks for watching, John! Glad you found it helpful.

    • @johntretin8991
      @johntretin8991 Před 5 měsíci +1

      Thanks again...

  • @Tubatoothpaste9
    @Tubatoothpaste9 Před rokem +2

    Excellent production value and great content, looking forward to the overvolting of the trolling motors!

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      Me too! Normally, I’d do it quite cautiously, but because there are no complicated PCBs inside the cheapest ones, I feel like we may be able to throw a LOT more volts at them than any of us expect. I may try to rip out the rheostat and upgrade the wire gauge to get even higher. As long as the brushes don’t catch fire, I’ll bet we can overvolt by more than double.

  • @vinceabarca
    @vinceabarca Před 4 měsíci

    Awesome content! Hope to see much more.

  • @dlloyd6300
    @dlloyd6300 Před rokem

    😳😳... this was exactly the content I was looking for. Both on the batteries AND the troll motor. I'm wanting to set something up on my kayak

  • @daan3298
    @daan3298 Před 10 dny

    Came for the battery test, stayed for the demoscene music.

  • @AXNJXN1
    @AXNJXN1 Před rokem +1

    Just stumbled across your vids and I must say, quite impressed with your no nonsense and get at it approach which is refreshing! Additionally, great, bottom line results! I live in Tucson and have a Kota C2 but I use two HF AGM 35 Hr batteries in parallel to get a 14 foot Sea Nymph all over southern AZ. It works, quiet but clearly the draw on the Minn Kota's just don't like one battery setups...

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying the format. I have the Lithium vs AGM video coming out later today. Was hoping to get it out by yesterday, but I'm running a bit behind on the release schedule.

  • @paulcapell5676
    @paulcapell5676 Před rokem +1

    Thank you for your excellence. That's why I thought a 60ah would work. Great lighter and cheaper than a 100ah lit.

  • @rptromega
    @rptromega Před rokem

    You're fiddling with the same stuff I've been messing with, and I really enjoy seeing your results. I have an Endura C2 and an Endura MAX 55, both on a bench right now but will be powering the latest poor decision hopefully soon.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      Nice! I thought about maybe getting the MAX, but I might go Traxxis instead. I'll definitely be moving up into the middleweight class pretty soon. These 30lb-ers are far too weak for Lake Havasu.

  • @user-zr1db2kq8r
    @user-zr1db2kq8r Před 5 měsíci

    Another good one!

  • @matruthn.m.bassin
    @matruthn.m.bassin Před rokem

    I just Added a 36 pound thrust Minn kota to my lifetime tamarack I call it “The Ghetto Rig” 😂 but I haven’t tested it yet probably this week sometime when it a consistent few days of Warmth 😂. But hey bro your channel is one of the If not the Most informative about what we do DIY. Thanks Bro and keep on #NeverStop

    • @matruthn.m.bassin
      @matruthn.m.bassin Před rokem

      Oh I’m using a 54AH 12V Dakota Lithium battery
      Do you think Them Dakota Batteries are good bro?

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      @@matruthn.m.bassin Glad you're finding the channel helpful. RE: Dakota, I haven't tried them personally, but they definitely strike me as pricey compared to lots of their competitors these days. That said, I hear they have a great warranty. I like to rip batteries apart so I end up voiding warranties anyway. That's why I usually shop on the bargain end of the spectrum.

    • @matruthn.m.bassin
      @matruthn.m.bassin Před rokem

      @@eagleray1 yes I wish I would have Discovered your Channel before making my purchase. If I would have known. I would have picked up one them Chin 100AH 12.8V you had reviewed in your last Video! I will definitely refer to your channel before I make any further purchases 🫡
      Thanks bro🤙

  • @mdwallace
    @mdwallace Před rokem

    Curious to dig into the controller on one of these kotors and see if they will support higher voltage configs. Thanks for the time and commitment, its one thing to check these items off peicemeal but to have all the considertions laid out, very helpful.
    Rolling with a fastcat 12 so I picked up a 32ah battery for fishfinder and accessories , emergency reserve and a 100 ah drive battery. Would like to avoid needing a gas engine

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      Nice! The FastCat looks badass... I'm definitely thinking about getting a rib boat for future episodes bc I'd like to compare hull types with all other things equal. Without testing, I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the cheapest trollers will be able to take higher "void-the-warranty" voltage than the more expensive ones because they tend not to have sensitive PCBs inside. The fuses and caps on a circuit board will be the first things to go when you put in "too much" voltage," but the R3 or the Endura, you've just got a rheostat (big resistor) and some brushes inside. I may rip out the rheostat for the overvolting video, and I think the brushes can take more than double voltage. Who would have thought it's ACTUALLY a 36V motor? It might catch fire, but then we'll know where the line is. :)

  • @emmettbowen4431
    @emmettbowen4431 Před rokem

    Love all the data you supply!

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      Glad you found it helpful!

    • @emmettbowen4431
      @emmettbowen4431 Před rokem

      @@eagleray1 have you ever checked no load current on a trolling motor?

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      @@emmettbowen4431 Yeah, there’s about a 5X difference in amp draw when you turn a small troller’s prop in air versus water.

  • @dlloyd6300
    @dlloyd6300 Před rokem +1

    I think some really fun and useful content would be if you tried a "build your own 18650 battery bank" kit. I am about to do just that myself. Amazon has a kit that you get the housing, 18650 holders, and BMS board. All you have to do is supply 21 of your own 18650's of choice, and a spot welder, and you can easily build your own 12v 20AH equivalent for a very enticing price. The one I am building was $16 for the housing and $32 plus shipping for the actual batteries making a 18AH unit. Not bad for $50 or so!

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      We're thinking along the same lines. I have an 18650 shoot in-progress, and many planned for the future.

  • @coryscott839
    @coryscott839 Před rokem

    Great videos. Really curious about the haswing w-20 trolling motor, small lightweight motor for kayaks?

  • @trextrextrex
    @trextrextrex Před 10 měsíci

    Great stuff. As one person said no nensense

  • @Andy-df5fj
    @Andy-df5fj Před 10 měsíci

    The max amp draw rating is typically just the peak draw that only occurs the instant the motor is turned on or if it's jammed by weeds or something.

  • @rainypath96
    @rainypath96 Před rokem

    awesome videos man. i hope you see you blow up

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      Thanks! Glad you enjoyed them.

  • @kyleigh2643
    @kyleigh2643 Před rokem

    Nice video. I did buy a Drok meter to eventually keep track of my power usage on minn kota power drive 55 motor & 100 ah sla, if I ever get it hooked up. My boat is up in Northern Wisconsin & it will be awhile before I can use it. Do you have any intention of making a case to hold the Drok power meter? Thank you.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      That's a great idea. The Drok could definitely benefit from some silicone sealant on the terminals as soon as it's permanently installed. I pictured most people including it on their switch panels, but for smaller projects like kayaks and yaktoons, it would be good to incorporate it into a battery box. Perhaps I'll take that on as a project for the channel. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • @jaymcwethy9026
    @jaymcwethy9026 Před 4 měsíci

    came across your channel while researching some Lithium batteries, appreciate your work testing these out. I have a question about your boat though, is that 2 sit on kayaks with a flat deck over both of them?

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 4 měsíci +1

      That’s correct. Those were the two 8ft lifetime hydros kayaks which are super cheap at tractor supply right now, under $200 each before shipping. However, with all the trouble I had with those during my five-video build that was supposed to be a one-video weekend build, I’d advise going a different route for DIY. If you want to build a deck boat from scratch, I’d try something other than kayaks. They were super hard to mount to, and a pain to register when if finally mostly waterproofed them. If I were to do that project again, I’d try to replace the kayaks with PVC or aluminum tube if you can weld. If you just want something quick w/ minimal diy, I’d suggest one of the pond prowler clones instead of a custom build. The pond prowlers are nice for the price IMO, and there are some amazing mod videos on them from other channels.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 4 měsíci

      One other avenue that is less explored that might try in the future is a deck boat build using multiple snow sleds. I’ve got a Shappell Jet Sled here, and I think if I had three more under a sheet of plywood, it’d make a sweet quick deck boat for about as cheap as it’ll ever get.

    • @jaymcwethy9026
      @jaymcwethy9026 Před 4 měsíci

      @@eagleray1 you could look into a pontoon pedal boat, we see them often around here, id think it could be easily modified if required. Im good with my single sit on top kayak, i just caught a glimpse and wasnt sure what i was seeing

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 4 měsíci +1

      @@jaymcwethy9026 yeah, I like the idea of converting a peddleboat to electric one day. I’ve seen a few build in that direction and it sounds fun, but I’m on the same page as you right now. Most of my diy energy is going into a dual motor system for a single sit-on-top at the moment. I picked up a feelfree a few months back that will debut on the channel soon.

    • @jaymcwethy9026
      @jaymcwethy9026 Před 4 měsíci

      @@eagleray1 check out the pac motor for inspiration

  • @paulcapell5676
    @paulcapell5676 Před rokem

    Question ; I got a 55 thrust electric troller Im useing a 100ah led acid battery. To reduce the weight in my kayak how small of a lithium battery can I go with? Would a 60ah lithium compete. The troller draws 50amps. Thanks

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      Great question! 55# thrust typically pulls about 45 amps max at full-throttle. It's usually rated for 50, but I find most trollers draw a bit below their rating for safety. So a 55# at 12V is drawing about 540W continuous. A 100AH lead battery has 50AH usable, so that's 600WH. So at full-throttle the whole way, you'll do 600/540=1.11hrs of runtime. To get the same runtime, you'll need a 50AH lithium battery. Based upon my results in this video, I think pulling 45 amps out of a 50AH lithium pack is perfectly safe. It'll get warm by the end, but probably not as warm as the 18AH pack got in this video. So I'd do a 50AH pack minimum, but also... the 50AH pack will be 4X lighter, so if your rig was already handling that weight... in theory, you could get up to 200AH lithium (if you've got the extra sheckles handy) and get 4X the runtime.

  • @jasonbroom7147
    @jasonbroom7147 Před rokem

    Very good video on the relative merits of LFP batteries and their usefulness with trolling motors. That battery definitely IS too small, as evidenced by the 45-minute runtime, but if you were on a small lake or large pond, where you never put the motor on high, it would have lasted far longer...probably a full day of fishing. Amp draw is not linear, so if you run your motor at 3 instead of 5, you don't reduce the draw by just 40%, you might reduce it by 75%, down to around 6 amps. With that said, most batteries are rated for 1C continuous discharge, but their "recommended" rate is .2C, or 20% of the amp-hour capacity. That is where the manufacturer expects you to run the battery to get the full amp-hour rating. For that small battery you would have to reduce the draw from 24 amps down to around 4 amps. I would have been very interested to see what that motor draws on the various forward power settings. I suspect the amp draw curve would be parabolic, with anything at or below level 3 delivering much better results. It's also worth mentioning that if you work your way up to the highest setting you will draw fewer amp-hours than going from dead stop to level 5 demand.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      Thanks Jason! 100% agree on the parabolic nature of the throttle curve. In fact, in a video I did on the Endura + Chins 100AH a few weeks ago, I tested both full throttle and lowest throttle bc I wanted to show that low throttle is exponentially conservative of the power. One thing I'm not sure is correct from you comment is the 0.2C rate "recommended." If you have examples of that, I'll definitely look into it and let my audience know about it, but my impression from specs I've checked show 0.2C is recommended "max charge rate" while 1C is recommended "max discharge rate." That said, I HAVE seen a few packs that recommend lower than 1C, but those tend to be the deep bargain discount packs. I usually take it as a sign that if the discharge rate is 0.5C or below, the pack probably has old refurbished cells inside.

    • @jasonbroom7147
      @jasonbroom7147 Před rokem +2

      @@eagleray1 - The max discharge rate for lithium iron-phosphate (LFP or LiFePO4) is typically 1C, recommended discharge rate is .5C, but the discharge rate at which the battery receives its AH rating is .2C. Most BMS units, including the one you tested, do not actually limit the discharge current; they rely on the overtemp sensor getting HOT to cut off discharge. That's why exceeding a 1C discharge rate is really not a good idea.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      @@jasonbroom7147 Are you sure? When you say "recommended discharge rate" are you referring to an OEM recommendation, an industry average that you've observed, or an item you often see listed in a given product page/spec sheet/manual? Because my experience doesn't match that. I've reviewed specs for dozens of LiFePO4 cells in the past six months, and purchased about a dozen of them, and from what I've seen, there's a manual less than half the time, there's not even an English-facing website half the time, and so the only frame of reference we have is the retail product page. And on the retail product page, I haven't personally added up averages, but I would say off the top of my head that I've seen mostly 1C as the max discharge rate, which, as far as I can tell , IS the recommended discharge limit. I don't know why they'd write dare to write a max discharge rate that could possibly overheat the battery. Also, I don't think you're correct about overcurrent being handled by the temp sensor. I've seen plenty of other youtubers trip overcurrent protection, and it happens immediately. A lot of BMSes definitely have a shunt tracking the amps directly. I can't speak for Lachy bc I didn't test overcurrent on it. I just figured Overcurrent limit would be higher than 1.4C because it often is. And I was right. I just checked the Lachy product page. They claim overcurrent trips at 80 amps (4.44C). Also, I assumed they stand by 1C bc that's just the industry average I've observed, but actually, they claim 40A max continuous, a very bold 2.22C. That said, many of these companies play fast and loose with life cycles. They conveniently don't mention how 2.2C would affect their life cycles, but base upon my temp testing, it would probably cut the life of the battery down quite a bit.

    • @jasonbroom7147
      @jasonbroom7147 Před rokem

      @@eagleray1 - I build the batteries from component parts, meaning raw cells and the actual BMS. My statements, above, are based on the spec sheet for most LFP cell recommendations. As far as how a BMS cuts off discharge, that is definitely not a matter of speculation. A GOOD BMS will actually monitor the outgoing amps and cut off after a certain amount of time exceeding the output, but many of the cheaper units rely on the overtemp sensor getting tripped. This is why some batteries rated for a certain amperage can exceed that for quite some time before they shut down. Not GOOD batteries, just cheap ones like the model you reviewed in this video.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      @@jasonbroom7147 Gotcha, if you have brands that list those recommendations in spec sheets or prodouct pages handy, much appreicated. I'm actually gonna be buying some LFPs in prismatic and cylindrical pretty soon, and some NMCs in prismatic. Already got a bunch of cylindrical NMCs here. I have a handful of BMSes here. Got a JBD that just came in. I don't know if I want to dive deep on testing them on my channel bc I think it might be too inside basegall for most of my audience, but I will certainly be building some batteries from scratch to drive some of the upcoming motors. If you have recommendations of which BMS brands definitely use a shunt for overcurrent cut-off, I definitely don't want the junk that doesn't. Advice much appreciated!

  • @emmettbowen4431
    @emmettbowen4431 Před rokem +1

    How hot does a pwm get? Will mounting it to a block of aluminum be ok so it can being the kayak? Thanks!

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      I’m not sure, but I do plan to test several off-the-shelf PWMs in the near future, and I’d like to build one using the Arduino platform. I have seen several PWM installs on kayak mod videos, so I don’t think they get hot enough to need a heat sink.

    • @emmettbowen4431
      @emmettbowen4431 Před rokem

      Can't wait to see your evaluation. I played with using an esc, but the resolution is just too small for motor control. Perhaps using an arduino would help. So I'm back to a 60amp pwm with a 100k pot. I tried to use a slide pot, but my thumb just couldn't control it.

  • @noelsharpe5970
    @noelsharpe5970 Před rokem

    You should use twin motors on your little cat boat. There will be much less effect from the wind.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      I think you're spot-on with this. Dual, tri-, and quad- experiments will definitely be a thing. I don't know if I'll have time for it before summer, but it's on the list for sure!

  • @kevinf4606
    @kevinf4606 Před 10 měsíci

    Which Everlast battery from Walmart should I use for my 40 trolling motor?

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 10 měsíci

      I'd advise you to keep away from Everlast for any trolling motor. Everlast is fine for starting gas engines. All Everlast batteries are lead acid chemistry. Even though some of them advertise themselves as "deep cycle," they are more than 3X more expensive than the equivalent LiFePO4 batteries when you compare them apples-to-apples. For a 40# trolling motor, I recommend watching my video titled "I got a lot of range out of this cheap battery" where I do a big performance review of the Chins 100AH LiFePO4 battery. I recommend that one, or any LiFePO4 from another brand is a better option than Everlast. Hope that helps!

    • @kevinf4606
      @kevinf4606 Před 10 měsíci +1

      @@eagleray1 Good morning. Thank you for your response. I will definitely stay away from Everlast battery. I will check out your video. Thank you very much

  • @underwaterdroneservices7292

    Hi. Here is some of my info just for interest. I may be setting up an AirBNB type luxury RV rental so it may take all of my $$$ for a while though. Told you it would be quite a few words. My questions are at the bottom so no need to read the rest.
    Requirements:
    1. Total including trailer 1000lbs max (preferably less). I drive a Prius which is rated at 0lbs towing but I installed a hitch and wiring and had no trouble towing 600lbs and couldn't stand driving a vehicle where the engine has to keep running while going nowhere. Some hybrid SUVs have 1000/2000lb tow rating but is a tad out of my price range currently. An AWD plug in hybrid is my objective.
    2. Enough power to handle some sudden wind. I'm on and pretty well exclusively use Lake Simcoe, Ontario, Canada at Barrie which is fairly bad for unexpected and abrupt weather changes. The lake is about 30 x 25KM (18 x 15mi). Lucky enough I use Kempenfelt bay at 15km east/west and only less than 2km north/south so am rarely more than 1km from shore BUT the deepest part of the lake, at about 130ft, is at the mouth of the bay. Since my interest is underwater drones and DIY underwater cameras I like to hang out in this deep water. Most often a storm would blow you to shore but if blowing eastward at the entrance to the bay without enough power to fight the wind a very rough, and likely life threatening, 25km ride eastward would transpire and going north or south at that point isn't going to shorten the ride by much. So, no choice but to have some extra power available.
    3. Tilt.
    4. Electric with backup gas power (I don't like gas outboards).
    What I had one year ago (already sold):
    1. 12' SunDolphin plastic boat (with a trailer) but it was too tippy and really the only reason for selling. It was awesome at only 112 lbs but I am a semi-giant so standing anywhere other than dead centre was too challenging, even getting on to a dock. That boat was perfect for rowing though. I could race canoes with two paddlers and usually win. Rowing that boat hard gave you a satisfying sense of being able to use all of the power in your entire body (arms, legs, back, hands and even feet). There should be rowing competitions with that exact boat especially with the toughest guys. It would quickly weed out the real men from the baby boys.
    2. 3.5hp gas outboard
    3. 36v 108 lb thrust trolling motor with wired speed and steering along with three lead-acid group 31 monstrosities (lithium was a lot more expensive even 1.5 years ago). I was hoping that this would be my main power and have the gas outboard as backup (kind of). The motor full throttle draws about 48amps at 36v (about 1600 watts). I had even gotten a 36v 10amp golf cart battery charger and was hoping that that with a small gas generator could replace the outboard. It would only be about one quarter of the full throttle 45 amps but that is likely about my normal throttle anyway. Never got a chance to try it properly. The motor is at the propeller and weighs a lot so due to leverage is hard on everything. Also, the propeller is at the back of the motor and with the motor at the back of the boat (designed for bow mount) when you steer left or right the propeller would push the motor sideway and uncontrollably over steer. It seems that if the propeller was in front of the motor it would tend to pull the motor into a straight line and prevent the massive over steer. The first and only time I tried to use that trolling motor must have looked quite amusing from shore. With the wired steering and speed control I was sitting in the middle of the boat where I would be expected to be at the back. I would go pretty good speed in a straight line but as soon as I tried to turn the oversteer would make me do donuts. It was fun and I wanted to see top speed so I tried for a long time to gently control the turns but just couldn't. Too bad but it is another reason for an alternate setup. Again, the weight of the electric motor at the bottom of the shaft is a problem.
    What I want (I think):
    1. Slightly less tippy but light weight boat. Maybe a 14' aluminum Jon boat (about 200lb).
    2. Dual electric (likely 48v) motors at the back and maybe one at the front. Must have enough power for Lake Simcoe.
    3. Not a console (too heavy) but with remote wired or wireless steering and power control from anywhere on the boat.
    4. Power tilt. I had already started devising this for my previous boat.
    Thoughts on how:
    1. Motors -
    Get a couple cheap gas or electric outboards possibly like this
    www.amazon.ca/Outboard-Engine-Manual-Cooling-Freshwater/dp/B0BBD9MBTT/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?c=ts&keywords=Outboard+Boat+Motors&qid=1680645367&refinements=p_36%3A12035764011&s=sports&sr=1-3-spons&ts_id=2438570011&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNFZPR1BZU0RYQjRTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzM5NTc0Mk1MNDRSR0s1TU5UTSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODY2OTU0MjVRV1lFUkhPS0dZTCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
    and swap the gas with an electric kit possibly like this
    www.vevor.ca/brushless-dc-motor-c_11227/48v-1800w-electric-motor-brushless-speed-controller-scooter-throttle-twist-grips-p_010700081791?gclid=Cj0KCQjwla-hBhD7ARIsAM9tQKvUkN_jwIPh1tbMl0hqiy7cA8kbaNC6koZ1pwBcbJXKzjt1CGX47IYaAstCEALw_wcB
    which provides throttle control including reverse. Of course there are all the implications of interfacing things. Two or three of these at full throttle will draw 3/4/5kw.
    2. Battery power -
    Lithium is getting cheaper by the day. I would want about 5kwh of battery or maybe even more. This is about 110ah @ 48v. Cheaper batteries like you have tested (4 x 12v 100ah = close to 5kwh) or even repurposed modules like
    www.kijiji.ca/v-general-electronics/city-of-toronto/lithium-lifepo4-battery-banks/1654499978
    is less than $1000 for 5kwh. There are more options all the time. I even have a DIY contact that bought a pile of cells two years ago that he will configure and sell exactly for what is needed but he is likely still too expensive. Of course it is not just the storage capability but the output capability of 4 or 5 kwatts. Four of those cheap 12v 100ah in series would provide 48v but likely not be capable of 4 or 5kw draw.
    3. Gas backup -
    Possibly a 48v dc generator like this
    www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Direct-Current-Generator-Portable-Silent-DC_1600322512965.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.784b1f0er22vM8
    that will charge and or run the motors at about 2kw.
    Questions:
    Batteries and charging is where I would have most questions such as -
    1. If you have 4 x 12v batteries in series running 48v motors can a lead come off of any one of them for 12v accessories at the same time?
    2. With the BMSs managing power can a 48v generator across the 4 x 12v simply continue to run and each BMS will switch off charging as each battery is fully charged? So, can the generator continue to run without harm with all four batteries BMSs having turned off their charging? Or, do you have to charge at 12v in parellel and would that wiring interfere with the series wiring?
    3. If you run in series and charge at 48v across the series then would the 12v leads off of one battery still look like 12v?
    4. Are larger brushless electric motors run at a fraction of their capability (say at about 25%) less efficient than smaller motors running at say 75%?
    Cheers!

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      Great questions! I believe I can help answer all of those, and I'll even be making videos about some of them in the future.
      1) Generally, you'd want to avoid syphoning off a lower voltage from an array in series, so 12V draw from one of a 4S 48V array is a thing you should avoid. It won't necessarily be dangerous, but you'll always get the lowest common denominator power out of a series string, so if you draw a lot from the 12V, then the other 3 would still have juice left near the end of a discharge, but any 48V load on them would read them as empty because one of them would go empty before the others. Generally, to solve this, you want to incorporate a 48V-to-12V buck converter, which pulls 48V off the whole array and converts it to 12V for any 12V appliances.
      2) Similar to #1, as soon as one BMS trips overdischarge protection, the 48V circuit is broken and no 48V load or supply can continue until you disconnect and reconnect. Just as the BMS balances cells internally to a pack, a device called a balancer (sometimes called an equalizer) can do the same thing across multiple packs. You may need one of those if you're concerned about keeping a bunch of series packs in balance.
      3) Yes, it is possible to pull or supply 12V on any one pack even as 48V load or supply is running through the series string. It's just generally not recommended.
      4) I believe generally a bigger motor running at lower RPMs will will always achieve higher efficiency for equivalent performance than a smaller motor at higher RPMs, but there are probably exceptions at both extreme ends of the spectrum.

    • @underwaterdroneservices7292
      @underwaterdroneservices7292 Před rokem

      @@eagleray1 1. Oh, I see. Drain one and the entire series shuts down. Or, if you get a bad cell in any one while in use and it drops too much then the entire series shuts down. That's no good. Convinced, I will not be considering 12v in series unless it is real inexpensive.
      2. & 3. now moot. (almost)
      4. So, dual 1500 watt motors running at 1000 watts would likely be as comparably efficient as two 500 watt motors running near max. Two x 1500 watt motors at a total of about 4hp still doesn't seem powerful enough for Lake Simcoe though. I will have to consider motor size carefully.
      Thanks, I will have more questions.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem

      @@underwaterdroneservices7292 Happy to help!

  • @NiteWolfeFishing
    @NiteWolfeFishing Před rokem

    Iam kind of shocked that the motors draw didnt trip the batteries bms.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před rokem +1

      I figured we’d have a little leeway there, but actually, I looked up the overcurrent limit on Lachy’s BMS and it’s quite a bit higher than even I was expecting: 80A, over 4C!

    • @NiteWolfeFishing
      @NiteWolfeFishing Před rokem

      @@eagleray1 That is surprising!

  • @davidmiller1151
    @davidmiller1151 Před rokem

    Yep, 😢low quality

  • @ericklein5097
    @ericklein5097 Před 10 měsíci

    I would caveat your 1C rating by saying the larger batteries (200Ah) often have a 100A BMS unless you pay for a premium model that might have a 150A or 200A BMS.
    The small cylindrical cells typically used in these sub 20Ah batteries are typically 2C or 3C cells. The limiting factor is usually the crummy BMS used. Now running them at 3C bypassing the BMS is going to cause some serious voltage drop.
    The advice of never running your battery above 1C is a good call but there are some other factors to consider. You have to think about every part of the circuit and what it’s rated for.
    The Peukert effect doesn’t really exist with lithium. It’s simply voltage drop that exists from the amp draw. You’ll be starting at a lower voltage if you keep that continuous draw so you’re going to reach the cutoff point sooner. I would be careful about running LiFePO4 budget batteries to BMS cutoff. Many of them have the cell under voltage set to 2.3 or 2.1 volts per cell. Repeatedly doing this is going to impact cycle life. They won’t die as long as you stay above 2.0V but you’ll definitely get way more life out of them if you stay above 2.5V. Cutting off when your lowest cell hits 2.75V is a great way to increase cycle life, so is keeping max cell voltage below 3.55V. Just do a top balance of all 4 cell groups to 3.65V once and then use a variable power supply to charge to 14.20V after that. The cells should stay fairly well top balanced but the BMS will never hit balance voltage if you stay at 3.55. Balance usually starts at 3.60 but the balance current is tiny which is why I suggest manually top balancing with an RC Lipo charger or a variable power supply and resistors.
    I still can’t believe no manufacturer has put a balance port on the cover of their battery. A simple 5 pin JST XH connector would allow anyone to simply hook up a lipo charger that has a LiFeP04 setting to top balance their battery every once in a while. You could probably top balance a couple times a year and be fine.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 10 měsíci

      Lot of good points here. 100% agree on the balance port. RE: C rates, I haven't torn open this Lachy pack, but I believe the 20-ish AH size category is still prismatic in most cases. It's pretty common for manufacturers to cheap out and use 18650s or 21700s for 10AH packs, but those give higher C rates at the cost of bad voltage compatibility w/ 12V appliances since they're not LiFePO4. I don't think I've seen a small pack that has cylindrical LiFePO4s. They might be out there, but they'd have to be smaller than this Lachy. With the common 32700 size, you MIGHT be able to fit 8 of those inside this Lachy box. I just measured it for fit. You definitely couldn't fit more than 8, so you'd need a 32700 that has 9AH to make an 18AH pack with 8. I don't think there are any 32700s w/ 9AH. They're usually closer to 1/2 that, so a 10AH LiFePO4 could have 32700s in it, and that could probably do 2C. In the case of this Lachy, I think prismatic can survive 2C. It's just not recommended for longevity.

    • @eagleray1
      @eagleray1  Před 10 měsíci

      RE: Peukert, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the distinction between Peukert versus simple sag amount per amp draw amount is no distinction at all. Peukert is just the name of the guy who documented sag amount per amp draw amount. Every battery has a Peukert effect, but we always associate it with lead acid because it's much more pronounced with lead acid than with lithium.